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# filename: genderLKMLHicss2015.tsv
# explanation: 
# This data set is part of a larger group of data sets
# described in the paper below, and hosted on the FLOSSmole.org site. 
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# group: this is the software project
# medium: this is the type of communication artifact (irc or email)
# date: 
# markmail permalink:
# message: the line with the gender stereotype
#
# Please cite the paper and FLOSSmole as follows:
#
# Citations:
# Squire, M. & Gazda, R. (2015). FLOSS as a source for profanity 
# and insults: Collecting the data. In Proceedings of 48th 
# Hawai'i International Conference on System 
# Sciences (HICSS-48). IEEE. Hawaii, USA. 5290-5298.
#
# Howison, J., Conklin, M., & Crowston, K. (2006). FLOSSmole: A 
# collaborative repository for FLOSS research data and analyses. 
# International Journal of Information Technology and Web 
# Engineering, 1(3), 17–26.
# 
group	medium	Date	markmail permalink	Message
lkml	email	4/17/2001 4:11:03	http://markmail.org/message/gwqnhjz3vpacglvs	The whole point of CML2 is to make kernel configuration something that Aunt Tillie (or a reasonable facsimile thereof) can do, and we are all Aunt Tillies from time to time.
lkml	email	4/17/2001 9:14:04	http://markmail.org/message/3uh23azsdmmusaok	Come on, that's absolutely a red herring.  There are valid reasons to want to configure your color schemes, but Aunt Tillie is not one of them.  Do you seriously believe the novice user will ever futz with a ~/.kernelconfigrc file?  I don't.  Only the (relatively) advanced user will bother to figure out stuff like that.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 7:53:31	http://markmail.org/message/ycfrlegvoxigymuq	I don't want to do (a); it conflicts with my design objective of simplifying configuration enough that Aunt Tillie can do it.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 8:11:01	http://markmail.org/message/fzzeg5imcvquex62	Aunt Tillie doesn't even know what a kernel is, nor does she want to. I think it's fair to assume that people who configure and compile their own kernel (as opposed to using the distribution supplied ones) know what they are doing.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 8:26:03	http://markmail.org/message/7unu5q5jiduoy3xt	Let's give Aunt Tillie a chance to surprise us.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 8:33:52	http://markmail.org/message/5mokc47bqcgo3lck	The big question is:  why on earth would Aunt Tillie _want_ to compile a kernel at all, let alone re-configure one?  If she's using Linux, she's installing her distribution's pre-compiled kernel, and has no need for anything else.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 8:37:04	http://markmail.org/message/fleauvwbjwgzxjpp	Don't get me wrong. I'm NOT opposed to having a config tool everyone and their aunt can use. I'm opposed to that tool taking away the options expert users have to do what they know is right for them.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 8:59:25	http://markmail.org/message/2va3sawjncndqas6	Not everyone falls into the "expert user" and "Aunt Tillie" categories. It's a *very* big grey area.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 9:08:47	http://markmail.org/message/pinexmar6jccawqh	Aunt Tillie shouldn't try to manually configure a kernel.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 9:16:53	http://markmail.org/message/dzeqblvrnyzio4iw	One of the reasons I keep Aunt Tillie in mind as a UI target is that if I can design a configuration system that makes the task possible for her, then I'll have one that makes it easy for this much larger class of intermediate-level users.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 9:43:33	http://markmail.org/message/fcdp37l2rxc7uimg	Ummm, maybe Aunt Tillie wants to learn how to configure a kernel.... After all, all of us at one point in time were newbies in terms of configuring kernels, etc.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 10:07:14	http://markmail.org/message/gyn3hlopbhk7h527	A little presumptuous, no?  I do in fact know an 'Aunt Tillie' type who configures her own kernel.  When she gets stuck she calls for help from her son, who is a computer geek.
lkml	email	5/18/2001 10:22:13	http://markmail.org/message/jet4wfon44pdpquu	And if she doesn't, maybe her teenage daughter Muffy wants to learn.  You know, the one with the unicorn appliques and the pink scrunchies and the Back Street Boys posters in her bedroom?Dammit, if we're serious about empowering people with free software we can't limit ourselves with the attitude that configuring kernels (or anything else) is the sacred preserve of a geek elite.
lkml	email	5/19/2001 3:55:12	http://markmail.org/message/7px6mqvv3mncjf4v	AND that is enough for some of the GUI kernel config tools out there to make an Aunt Tillie level config program. Yes they need to add extra information.
lkml	email	5/20/2001 8:33:47	http://markmail.org/message/4ycrwksspvmc7wfi	Some people have got it into their heads that the "Aunt Tillie" method of configuration will be the only one allowed.  They do not realise that this is the novice method, experts can still do what they like.
lkml	email	5/20/2001 8:34:04	http://markmail.org/message/mfsdpu2qz3yvhtjh	On one hand you have dependencies which are present to make life easier for Aunt Tillie, by refraining from confusing her with strange questions to which the answer is _probably_ 'no'. Like the question of whether she has an IDE controller on her MVME board.
lkml	email	5/20/2001 8:43:49	http://markmail.org/message/cajnp26ifgjlr6zi	What you call an `advisory' dependency would be simulated by having a policy symbol for Aunt Tillie mode and writing constraints like this: require AUNT_TILLIE implies FOO >= BAR
lkml	email	5/20/2001 10:47:09	http://markmail.org/message/bxoflogke2hgf3jm	In particular, please don't strive to make Aunt Tillie happy on the one occasion on which she configures her kernel at a cost of rendering CML2 less useful for those for whom kernel configuration is an every-day task.
lkml	email	5/20/2001 17:44:41	http://markmail.org/message/t42wc4saen2v6h5u	And yes Aunt Tillie might want to do so, if the person who sold her her Linux CD provided a bunch of scripts for packing up things in a specific way.
lkml	email	5/21/2001 4:32:27	http://markmail.org/message/bf73322rlxbm6bxn	If this is the case, then if a "hacker" type switches something explicitly then it'll stay there even if the default changes for that option in a future kernel.  Meanwhile, Aunt Tillie gets the changed default option applied with no extra effort.
lkml	email	5/21/2001 16:10:59	http://markmail.org/message/jko5bjbfhb7zxmrr	I think I'd like CML2 to remember which options are explicitly set and which ones I left alone (if it doesn't do so already) - that will go a long way towards helping Aunt Tillie in the long run.
lkml	email	12/28/2001 20:06:05	http://markmail.org/message/4lw3hhsxnvbd5uq5	Making end-user builds easier is NOT a primary nor secondary nor tertiary goal here. Make my life easier first.  Fuck Aunt Tillie.  Aunt Tillie can get her kernels from a vendor.
lkml	email	12/29/2001 20:24:07	http://markmail.org/message/vmcycuisjqaqgmpk	If theres a valid reason for Aunt Tillie to rebuild her kernel, it means her distro of choice is doing something wrong.
lkml	email	12/30/2001 6:37:07	http://markmail.org/message/ujfxrfhprzzb3dbf	Yes, Aunt Tillie should not have to build a new kernel. But 13-year-old Joe Geek might want to try that out, as well as your next door neighbor, who just might be an IT guy, trying to switch his department to Linux.
lkml	email	1/2/2002 16:58:14	http://markmail.org/message/keson44lkacytuzi	1 in 5 gets it right. Are the odds really worth the hassle just to keep Aunt Tillie happy ?
lkml	email	1/2/2002 19:39:01	http://markmail.org/message/6y5k3gvmvfkqhsyk	this implies Aunt Tillie knows she has ISA cards which gets everything right back to square one.
lkml	email	1/3/2002 1:18:53	http://markmail.org/message/j6rawhdjoh2uu74f	Making it _easier_ for Aunt Tillie to install something like 2.4.10 is not necessarily doing her a favour.
lkml	email	1/3/2002 5:35:24	http://markmail.org/message/plp23tfaxhfmlvjz	I'd wagger Aunt Tillie doesn't run Linux on Ye Olde Coffepot, but on a new, PCI-only machine. So this is doubly silly...
lkml	email	1/3/2002 5:46:25	http://markmail.org/message/zkhj3s74bgibl4se	*your* Aunt Tillie perhaps. I know several folks whose parents have now inherited their offsprings old computers, and are now using Linux on them to read their mail, write a book, whatever..
lkml	email	1/3/2002 6:11:39	http://markmail.org/message/tlgl45os3uupqcz2	Aunt Tillie doesn't build kernels; if she did she'd prefer to build a kernel that works everywhere.
lkml	email	1/3/2002 8:42:20	http://markmail.org/message/quw7azwufs2znofe	Why an average (non-hacker) Aunt Tillie won't be satisfied with e.g. Red Hat or Madrake or whatever kernel or an update is just way beyond me.
lkml	email	1/4/2002 1:56:10	http://markmail.org/message/cktw7donzmpopbzq	Linus shared Linux as a 'game' for other hackers (10 years ago). Now some 'Aunt Tillie' use Linux. Thus maybe in few years all 'Aunt Tillie' will compile the own kernel.
lkml	email	1/7/2002 12:12:59	http://markmail.org/message/4aaiprzccn7txktm	For anyone configuring a kernel who's not already an expert (we're not talking Aunt Tillie ... most technical folk shouldn't be kernel experts), that information can be important.
lkml	email	1/11/2002 16:35:07	http://markmail.org/message/m26eohmb6nmgl36s	I don't consider kernel compilation as a developer-only activity: we certainly don't expect Aunt Tillie to compile kernels, but it's expected almost every server admin will want/need to do it.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 5:32:31	http://markmail.org/message/qcczyopk2dvc3l4w	Can aunt tillie actually unscrew her case and insert a PCI card? More to the point, WOULD she?)
lkml	email	1/14/2002 6:00:15	http://markmail.org/message/z62d7y5hwyabstj4	All Aunt Tillie has to do is click on the update button.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 6:28:19	http://markmail.org/message/osvjxbhprqpih6j7	As for aunt tillie moving from red hat's kernel to linus's most recent kernel, is that advisable?
lkml	email	1/14/2002 7:39:03	http://markmail.org/message/t46f2ifuz6je6fgx	Anyway, if aunt tillie calls for her neighborhood computer mechanic, he's probably not going to be a particularly high powered geek. He may have aspirations of geekdom, but basically we're talking glorified tech support.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 9:52:06	http://markmail.org/message/u24xqumbwdjhssl6	Aunt Tillie probably thinks having a faster kernel will mean she can download images from her favorite knitting-pattern website more quickly. Aunt Tillie is a little confused about the difference between processor and network speed. ... Aunt Tillie is getting on in years; she isn't as good at retaining abstract facts as she used to be.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 10:38:02	http://markmail.org/message/ap67yygvg3zur2gi	If it screws up, and Aunt Tillie shelled out for support (which of course, she did being the 'needing support' type)
lkml	email	1/14/2002 10:53:19	http://markmail.org/message/jdjn3radcycjdlh2	Supporting products for Aunt Tillie is very different than supporting products for a bunch of hackers. One wants "it works" and the other wants "the source".
lkml	email	1/14/2002 10:53:50	http://markmail.org/message/p73j5enw3jba4a3x	And your belief that you *can* know it is a key part of the elitist developer psychology and implicit assumptions that keeps Linux mostly inaccessible to the Aunt Tillies of the world.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 10:54:46	http://markmail.org/message/7dx62cyy3utfe4md	Aunt Tillie is running Linux because someone installed a distribution for her.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 11:29:24	http://markmail.org/message/5hft4kzuvjm6hc5y	If there isn't such a distribution for her, she is no longer "Aunt Tillie", but has become "Aun7 71LL13" ;)
lkml	email	1/14/2002 11:44:59	http://markmail.org/message/3obb5wu22z3z36rl	if theres some whizzy-new-feature that Aunt Tillie really believes she'll need, there's more chance she'll find it in a prepackaged tested vendor kernel than stock kernel.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 11:50:13	http://markmail.org/message/rkp6mfhnlmct32df	Tillie's nephew Melvin is a junior-grade geek. He's working his way through college doing website administration for small businesses. He doesn't know C, but he can hack his way around Perl and a little PHP, and he can type "configure; make". He's been known to wear a penguin T-shirt.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 11:51:46	http://markmail.org/message/72nrulxn3w2gq2qq	If she installed Linux herself, today, then she's not Aunt Tillie. She's "my Aunt Tillie who's something of a computer hobbyist, and not afraid to install a Unix-like OS on her PC alongside (or instead of) Windows". That's a _whole_ different ballgame -- and if she can do that, then she's fully capable of reading a little bit and answering some yes/no questions to compile a kernel.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 12:30:24	http://markmail.org/message/d255e3frzvlvjevu	I don't want to get into whether this is an appropriate thing to make easily accessible to good ol' Aunt Tillie.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 14:34:01	http://markmail.org/message/wy2zomailmpynvzv	Therefore I try to stay focused on Aunt Tillie even though I know that you are objectively correct and her class of user is likely not to build kernels regularly for some years yet.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 14:41:13	http://markmail.org/message/lep5d2fhte76rapw	Aunt Tillie doesn't even have to _know_ she needs a better VM.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 16:46:28	http://markmail.org/message/mwh64evqtemnhyl5	We (yes, we) should make sure Aunt Tillie doesn't ever have to build a kernel, ever.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 16:51:35	http://markmail.org/message/m6rxghto3eiowlvz	This one also includes some more experimental bits, Aunt Tillie may want to give this one a miss.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 18:22:17	http://markmail.org/message/uxlp3ewq7t72mrzl	Requiring Aunt Tillie to configure/compile her kernel is a *failure* on the part of the vendor. It doesn't matter whether Aunt Tillie is really Aunt Tillie or your local MSCE. They should not have to do it.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 18:36:19	http://markmail.org/message/ijl76xf4qicgoqyx	A good many readers of linux-kernel don't want to start seeing posts from Aunt Tillie and would rather leave this ease of use issue to the distributions that already make it easy as pie.
lkml	email	1/15/2002 1:13:52	http://markmail.org/message/qagcpvuzpk3h6ofn	We don't expect Aunt Tillie to write kernel drivers for her knitting machine. She (and we) expect(s) someone else to do that for her.
lkml	email	1/15/2002 2:04:59	http://markmail.org/message/7mnkr3bon6dgewys	Please do remember the horrors of some of the "latest stable" kernels, and think thrice before you inflict same on poor Aunt Tillie.
lkml	email	1/15/2002 2:59:54	http://markmail.org/message/f7phb45ftb7mu7ew	But 99.9% of Aunt Tillies won't need anything else. To have _everybody_ go through a lot of pain for the sake of 0.02% of Linux users is silly. Better let Nephew Mervin keep the junkheap, and give Tilly a new machine for her birthday.
lkml	email	1/15/2002 4:29:36	http://markmail.org/message/uzw5wppb34xin5ax	Ok, Grandpa Willie only cares about support for his doodad. Why do you conclude that he should never build a kernel?
lkml	email	1/15/2002 5:16:53	http://markmail.org/message/l5x6wmhxsxvj3svc	Anyway, the target of Linux changes. If was a toy for hacker 10 year ago, maybe in future will be the toy for Aunt Tillies.
lkml	email	1/15/2002 5:26:48	http://markmail.org/message/ham6c64fka4jdvot	No, it would be tested on Aunt Tillie's PC, which she brought in for upgrading (she's not going to unscrew the case and put a new card in herself, is she), and which the drone has never seen before and didn't necessarily sell her in the first place.
lkml	email	1/15/2002 15:44:34	http://markmail.org/message/k2qoeem2lt7bp2vv	Aunt Tillie is a side issue. She's going to continue to run Windows until Linux comes preinstalled on her new computer, or until somebody ELSE installs it for her and does an awful lot of hand holding. And what she probably really WANTS is an iMac. :)
lkml	email	1/15/2002 17:28:51	http://markmail.org/message/zqnshzcfi3b4e4vi	Aunt Tillie doesnt know what exim is
lkml	email	2/15/2002 15:25:44	http://markmail.org/message/lv6nqbmcbue2hfpu	Aunt Tillie is NOT the initial target audience.
lkml	email	2/15/2002 15:36:14	http://markmail.org/message/csmy2h5stkta2s5u	Aunt Tillie's opinion doesn't count.
lkml	email	2/18/2002 14:30:53	http://markmail.org/message/djcsaobyk2ijdbsb	Could you explain in very simple terms, suitable for Aunt Tillie (ok, not *that* simple) how the continued fraction works...
lkml	email	3/11/2002 7:29:34	http://markmail.org/message/elaxv7or6bvoskr6	Requiring Aunt Tillie to configure/compile her kernel is a *failure* on the part of the vendor. It doesn't matter whether Aunt Tillie is really Aunt Tillie or your local MSCE. They should not have to do it.But some people, the Aunt Tillie types, were always tripping over their shoelaces and unintentially deleting files.
lkml	email	4/27/2002 10:01:42	http://markmail.org/message/k6zarakfe5ra6jus	Aunt Tillie try to insmod a binary-only module on production server
lkml	email	5/7/2002 17:09:45	http://markmail.org/message/qv6b43tehteifxaa	I am not aiming for Aunt Tillie's level but kbuild 2.4 has proven that relying on human action does not work, even for people who understand computers.
lkml	email	6/3/2002 10:23:58	http://markmail.org/message/h2ylmngp73pae3ih	And even Aunt Tillie could maintain kbuild-2.5....
lkml	email	7/2/2002 8:52:57	http://markmail.org/message/dzr35v5bgavdvkgl	Removable modules would be a "kernel hacking" option, still available to people developing drivers and such. Aunt Tillie would no longer be able to remove modules from her kernel, but that's not likely to bother her too much...
lkml	email	7/25/2002 13:15:59	http://markmail.org/message/mmprtred3d6e7ecj	Aunt Tillie is, after all, a non-coder. She was just barely able to configure the kernel thanks to CML2. If Penelope hadn't been helped out by the creepy guy and the good looking guy she wouldn't even have started emacs.
lkml	email	8/1/2002 11:29:06	http://markmail.org/message/osti25q322y3d266	But it shouldn't be that easy, that Aunt Tillie starts submitting feature patches without understanding the whole picture ;-)
lkml	email	9/15/2002 17:32:04	http://markmail.org/message/t2s6vqpzlbksyio4	Now, the productivity of the head developers/integrators is as high as the average quality of the patches they get. If Aunt Tillie and her sisters get a kernel debugger and start spewing off "Set to a random non-NULL value so it doesn't crash" patches kernel development will grind to a halt.
lkml	email	10/10/2002 10:31:49	http://markmail.org/message/rp4zliksz6ripfko	The kernel is written for people with a clue. For people without a clue, they should use a vendor kernel or ESR's Aunt-Tillie-friendly system.
lkml	email	1/29/2003 2:18:46	http://markmail.org/message/pb6xpep2j4ajag3i	There are published programs that do the fiddling automatically, no expertise needed. Just as Aunt Tillie is able to use Linux without the slightest clue about what goes on inside...
lkml	email	5/7/2003 2:06:38	http://markmail.org/message/44imyqnv6clgm4hp	And you go try explain to aunt Tillie why RH can't include driver XYZ for her fizzie-whizzie USB gadget while Linus does
lkml	email	5/17/2003 20:52:45	http://markmail.org/message/l4wxnef2nhid2gx5	Aunt Tillie will eventually learn that this strange sentence means that, even if the thing doesn't work when she attaches it to her PC, her nephew will be able to make it work for her. And in a few years, when she buys a new PC with a new distribution, there will probably already be a driver included. What else could she ask for ?
lkml	email	5/27/2003 10:55:42	http://markmail.org/message/d6fzso3t2ow732em	My expectation is that we aren't going to make kernel configuration safe for Aunt Tillie anytime in the near future.
lkml	email	5/27/2003 12:46:05	http://markmail.org/message/l3fpkkif5624x57w	This will look alot better and be more easily understood, by Aunt Tillie or even an aware kernel hacker.
lkml	email	8/22/2003 9:37:38	http://markmail.org/message/qs5qardeh2rvzhre	Btw, could we please get a consensus on what CONFIG_EMBEDDED is supposed to mean? It was introduced to allow compiling code out for special cases that normal userspace should be able to rely on like epoll and futexes but people seem to use it as an Aunt Tillie guard these days..
lkml	email	8/22/2003 10:05:01	http://markmail.org/message/n4ohnvn4uut4dm63	What about two new options to replace the old CONFIG_EMBEDDED? - CONFIG_AUNT_TILLIE - for this kind of shoot yourself in the foot  protection and - CONFIG_NONSTD_ABI - for the original sense of a kernel so limited   that parts of the usual userland ABI may disappear
lkml	email	4/28/2004 6:52:54	http://markmail.org/message/d2mbccan3t7kyh4q	Can we please take Aunt Tillie out to the firing squad? This hacking around with the Kconfig files to make X86 life simple is causing _real_ bugs for other architectures.
lkml	email	4/28/2004 7:36:10	http://markmail.org/message/xntczeipkeka2gv7	But then, we are catering for Aunt Tillie and not providing something with a logical structure... 8/
lkml	email	7/23/2004 3:00:39	http://markmail.org/message/lopxwdgi43yiskgz	I'd be interested to see examples of how these tools help regular sys admins or technically inclined users (no Aunt Tillie compatibility required) -- IMO that would go a long way to make a case for inclusion [1].
lkml	email	8/11/2004 16:26:02	http://markmail.org/message/mgrhsfuhrunyhgve	Aunt Tillie's gonna fscking _love_ this :)
lkml	email	8/13/2004 4:06:33	http://markmail.org/message/zh4tojyw7zk4ajlf	Please use normal dependency whereever possible and use select in such cases only as exception and with very good reason. Making kernel configuration easier for aunt Tillie is not such reason.
lkml	email	8/28/2004 16:14:31	http://markmail.org/message/5ftbwos5agkrgjku	If it weren't so, everybody and Aunt Tillie would just carry .ext3's around, and would wonder what the heck all this fuss is about.
lkml	email	9/3/2004 12:17:27	http://markmail.org/message/5ebbi2u63e2uxzev	Great. Now you just need to convince everybody and Aunt Tillie to use that same format.
lkml	email	4/1/2005 9:27:35	http://markmail.org/message/kvufkxtzj5oo5dmb	Anything like this that can be accessed by plain users (not root) is inherently dangerous. It is for a reason that only root can increase the priority of a process. If you allow reniceing and place some kind of limit on it, even Aunt Tillie will run her programs with priority maxed out, and we are back were we are today.
lkml	email	12/2/2005 6:43:23	http://markmail.org/message/6bxa4fhbt5mpuz4r	So can we please stop this likely/unlikely expiry nonsense? It's great if you want to tell aunt Tillie about kernel hacking, but it's terrible advice to kernel programmers.
lkml	email	12/2/2005 7:41:19	http://markmail.org/message/7zeoqfyopck6ovqf	The fact that the likely/unlikely stuff is easy to tell aunt Tillie is precisely what makes it useful to tell kernel hackers with a half-million other things on their minds.
lkml	email	8/24/2006 8:44:11	http://markmail.org/message/c5fvuzmqwvohccqt	Please. no. CONFIG_EMBEDDED was a bad idea in the first place -- its sole purpose is to pander to Aunt Tillie.
lkml	email	8/24/2006 8:57:51	http://markmail.org/message/zzadi5pjqfhy3fg7	It's not for Aunt Tillie. It's for an average system administrator who compiles his own kernel.
lkml	email	8/24/2006 9:09:03	http://markmail.org/message/iuij7shxdvme4ahb	That's the difference between Aunt Tillie and a system administrator: A system administrator knows which filesystems he wants to use.
lkml	email	8/24/2006 10:15:40	http://markmail.org/message/dnmgumwyafj2zgfs	Increasingly, these days, that approach has been failing due to all this Aunt Tillie crap.
lkml	email	8/24/2006 10:48:21	http://markmail.org/message/4zzldy7zcubepged	If you _ever_ catch me getting confused because I'm trying to build an ISDN driver and I can't work out that in order to do this, I might need to first enable CONFIG_ISDN, then I promise you I will change my name by deed poll to 'Aunt Tillie'.
lkml	email	8/31/2006 17:14:54	http://markmail.org/message/3aeuv45g5on2ipbh	No, it means that we're pandering to Aunt Tillie.
lkml	email	8/31/2006 17:48:29	http://markmail.org/message/xjzpvzd4w4fvg3vv	But David, you edit .config anyway, so who is "make *config" for? Not that I want enable Tillie very much..
lkml	email	8/31/2006 18:27:04	http://markmail.org/message/u55cttulsp5kgxlx	So "make *config" certainly isn't optimised for me, although of course I do have to use it. It seems to be increasingly optimised for Aunt Tillie.
lkml	email	8/31/2006 18:46:39	http://markmail.org/message/llkpm445lgcw3fw2	The vast majority of konfig user who might have a master in computer science (like our Aunt Tillie has) but aren't kernel hackers have different needs from kernel hackers.
lkml	email	2/5/2007 5:34:25	http://markmail.org/message/7pfnmdehzyugaydp	If ESR's Aunt Tillie _really_ needs to configure a new kernel for her $100 laptop, but she lacks the wit to realise that she might need to ask for NAND flash support if she wants to be able to enable the NAND flash controller, then I really couldn't care less. ... Personally, I'm quite happy to tell Aunt Tillie to go screw herself and for that guidance to be to _never_use 'select'.
lkml	email	2/5/2007 7:56:04	http://markmail.org/message/vre4rtpjrbhjexkr	I think the right solution is not to be ambivalent towards the needs of aunts, but to extend the Kconfig language (and/or tools surrounding it) to be able to activate an inactive config entry by automatically selecting all its required dependencies.
lkml	email	2/5/2007 8:17:21	http://markmail.org/message/qblh37sl5jtajrp6	yes, in the example above i only outlined that the problem is real and not limited to Aunt Tillie's.
lkml	email	2/5/2007 13:39:24	http://markmail.org/message/ndddpmlti6zd5xim	No, really. Eric's Aunt Tillie can go screw herself backwards with a chainsaw. I care about _my_ use of configuration, and mostly my requirement is that I want to turn something _off_ either because it doesn't work, or I want it modular so I can hack on it, or because I'm trying to cut down kernel size and I don't want it.
lkml	email	2/5/2007 15:21:11	http://markmail.org/message/pubtb5omtfxlqysd	The other reason that a bunch of us are objecting is because we seem to be doing this for very little real benefit -- if we wanted to pander to Aunt Tillie, we could have done it in the tools.
lkml	email	2/5/2007 15:32:04	http://markmail.org/message/w56crsrn7acydooj	You talk about "Aunt Tillie". Don't talk about Aunt Tillie. Dammit! Talk about ME! And talk about the kinds of people we *want* to compile the kernel: people who may be entirely regular users, but people who want to help us debug things by testing the -rc1 release. Those people are IMPORTANT. You belittling the whole concept just makes you look like an ass.
lkml	email	2/6/2007 7:33:50	http://markmail.org/message/4rhehmnxslm56zo3	I'd be quite happy to see CONFIG_EMBEDDED separated entirely from the "advanced/expert/screwing aunt tillie" selection menu, or whatever we're choosing to call it these days.
lkml	email	9/9/2007 14:11:21	http://markmail.org/message/33hiiaagafrmjzci	Our Kconfig system is for people who already know the kernel, not Aunt Tillie.
lkml	email	11/10/2007 2:13:01	http://markmail.org/message/5mwgdpknk6udvwye	Let's check who the "people" affected are: Aunt Tillie isn't affected since she doesn't compile her own kernel.
lkml	email	12/14/2007 16:02:11	http://markmail.org/message/d42b66lj4ea232dm	We are not talking about Aunt Tillie, "system administrator" is the use case that might cover this (quite diverse) group of users best.
lkml	email	1/5/2008 15:21:51	http://markmail.org/message/rdcb2uzamrwfbtlq	For Aunt Tillie cases, "select" makes sense. For other cases, I'd argue that it makes sense for config users to know when they do something that causes an entire subsystem to be added to their kernel (like SCSI or NET).
lkml	email	1/5/2008 15:45:18	http://markmail.org/message/r3enzlkuabt3nduw	We are not talking about Aunt Tillie [1] since she anyway does not build her own kernel.
lkml	email	1/27/2008 21:32:34	http://markmail.org/message/otwqfn5cqwaelsii	Generally "user" refers to Aunt Tillie sitting at the keyboard.
lkml	email	6/6/2008 18:07:23	http://markmail.org/message/6ayeyqaxvveijkfs	The sentence "when no swap space exists." a) lacks capitalisation and b) makes no sense. The paramedics are caring for Aunt Tillie.
lkml	email	7/3/2008 11:55:39	http://markmail.org/message/jkqbl74ktazx2cbo	You're getting into Aunt Tillie territory, when you complain about that.
lkml	email	7/3/2008 12:30:44	http://markmail.org/message/mksz2aq3ect5wkql	1) Several of the highest-up maintainers are Aunt Tillies. or 2) This is sufficiently subtle and complicated that far more experienced people than Aunt Tillie will Get It Very Wrong.
lkml	email	7/3/2008 13:54:13	http://markmail.org/message/wc5be6r5v45dl4d3	But this change preserves the property, for now, that the fixes to make older drivers use request_firmware() introduce _no_ "regressions" when Aunt Tillie runs 'make oldconfig' and accepts the defaults without looking at what she's doing.
lkml	email	7/3/2008 14:42:50	http://markmail.org/message/6onwftemoq6whhf6	The Aunt Tillie answer would definitely be 'yes', although that means it requires root privs; like modules_install does.
lkml	email	7/31/2008 11:26:31	http://markmail.org/message/hemirmtlistg2dr3	What proportion of the X servers out there did we just break? Was the crash I saw due to this? Where would I (Aunt Tillie running FC5) go to find out how to fix my machine up again? 
lkml	email	7/31/2008 11:34:18	http://markmail.org/message/2kxhbd5ygeczlre4	What is Aunt Tillie doing compiling her own kernels on FC5? You OTOH managed to get an answer fairly quickly ;)
lkml	email	7/31/2008 12:20:10	http://markmail.org/message/sudbh5bakucivqsu	If you want to test 2.6.27-rc1-mm1, but your Synaptics pad is making X crash immediately, and like Aunt Tillie and me you're more comfortable patching your kernel than messing around in your userspace, then reverting back from 768 to 512 keys should help.
lkml	email	9/8/2008 14:29:34	http://markmail.org/message/mwt4kjz33o24f4mj	Kconfig is not about letting Aunt Tillie configure kernels without being able to shoot herself in the foot.
lkml	email	9/8/2008 14:37:17	http://markmail.org/message/lud423nbsstvdqbr	This isn't Aunt Tillieism, this is called common sense.
lkml	email	2/20/2009 22:19:52	http://markmail.org/message/wkybaxdhvq3z3uq6	So HOTPLUG, INPUT, FW_LOADER, etc. should not be modified by Aunt Tillie, but you and I can play with them.
lkml	email	3/4/2010 13:22:53	http://markmail.org/message/yrz24ep4mjweubnp	Does it have sufficient context for people to be able to understand what it means, and which subsystem it's referring to? If you phone your Aunt Tillie and tell her "CPB: on", will she understand what you mean?
lkml	email	6/2/2010 12:28:37	http://markmail.org/message/76ms3w7hlzkfxv7r	And the big vague general issue: where's the value? What does all this code buy us? Why would we want to include it in Linux? When Aunt Tillie unwraps her shiny new kernel, what would she notice was different?
lkml	email	6/24/2011 7:44:43	http://markmail.org/message/jjv7xt6ialuixyso	If you want the Aunt Tillie "configure for my machine" option, that's something different. And uninteresting.
lkml	email	7/31/2011 1:12:37	http://markmail.org/message/bjw653rn7aooj3yl	We do not attempt some kind of half-baked Aunt Tillie mode where we guess certain settings from the build host.
lkml	email	12/26/2012 4:38:17	http://markmail.org/message/7765bvfoig6xkrjm	The architecture is *not* "i486", "i686 with PAT", "i686 with cmov", "x86_64 with 3DNow", "x86_64 with AHCI and ext4", or anything else Aunt Tillie-ish which actually stands a chance of booting on your current hardware.
lkml	email	7/24/1996 15:46:25	http://markmail.org/message/3mmtteofddmrn6ln	VFS:  Shit!  Some dumbass took the disk out! (2/0) And of course, in addition to the config option, we would need a boot time option and a proc config file (for when grandma comes over):
lkml	email	11/29/1997 18:17:00	http://markmail.org/message/csyptmdwop5dtgqv	Now, when Grandma is tinkering with her new toy that lets her get into a steamy conversation in some chat room, I'm sure she couldn't care less if her system uses IDE or SCSI devices :)
lkml	email	11/29/1999 6:43:22	http://markmail.org/message/eopsx6lyt22beqt7	But it would sure be nice with a autodetecting Linux. My grandma should use it!
lkml	email	4/25/2000 1:19:41	http://markmail.org/message/pt3bc6lvfqwxjk62	it's like asking grandma what her points are set to on the chevy. heck, i'd wager at least half the people reading this don't know what i'm talking about but it's the most simple thing for an auto mechanic.
lkml	email	9/4/2001 2:09:12	http://markmail.org/message/x6afdbfj2lqjrpki	addl $32,%esp <-- My grandma optimizes better
lkml	email	12/22/2001 11:39:39	http://markmail.org/message/nztya5josrb325ve	For virtually everybody, including my grandma, KB == kilobytes, MB == megabytes, and GB == Gigabytes.
lkml	email	1/3/2002 4:40:07	http://markmail.org/message/hstffdmgyzna5ypw	I'm really not too worried about Grandma cross compiling kernels
lkml	email	1/3/2002 13:44:35	http://markmail.org/message/ma5kdqlxjyemaj4c	ROTFL at the mental image of my Grandma configuring a cross-compiling environment.
lkml	email	1/14/2002 10:59:51	http://markmail.org/message/2t5yzmlxotsshef3	Thirdly building a lot of stuff modular is the right choice anyway - in the world of hot plugging and USB Grandma is not going to want to recompile her kernel because she bought a new trackball to boost her quake score.
lkml	email	12/9/2002 13:33:52	http://markmail.org/message/e67pavqm7ijt2k5w	This is the only thing keeping me from migrating to 2.5 full-time on the computer I use most often -- if I can't turn off the "tap-to-click" crap I'll end up e-mailing porn to my Grandma or something else uncouth. :-0
lkml	email	1/6/2003 16:50:49	http://markmail.org/message/c4glrygl3ok4kiey	You are just being silly. Any half-decent person (including my grandma, seriously!) can set up distributions such as Mandrake and now maybe even Red Hat.
lkml	email	4/16/2004 20:07:02	http://markmail.org/message/xi6ujacama3i37hi	I'm coming up with a grandma-proof laptop so I made a 800x580 PPM boot logo and added it into my 2.6 kernel source. ...This renders the concept of the friendly logo to prevent grandma from bugging out from all the kernel messages pretty useless.
lkml	email	4/17/2004 3:44:33	http://markmail.org/message/6db2p3mxvfe4c2yt	This means that, should something go wrong, grandma can "bug out" and phone you, and read the error message to you.
lkml	email	5/12/2004 12:11:37	http://markmail.org/message/x3hsi3jalivrbgru	Dragging this back on topic by the scruff of the neck, trying to get uclibc to work with a 2.6 kernel without having a 2.4 kernel on the box to loot headers from involves tracking down a third package just for the cleaned up headers. Just knowing that you NEED to do that is black magic. Grandma ain't dealing with this any time soon. (Although mine have both taken to the internet remarkably well. Both from windows machines, one via AOL...)
lkml	email	9/29/2005 14:26:20	http://markmail.org/message/ddpnn2urg5uisokv	Gaah. Using a new pine version, and it is back to corrupting whitespace. Damn all mailer writers. Do they think email is just for grandma?
lkml	email	9/29/2005 14:32:53	http://markmail.org/message/nf32tp5kw5pi3xfn	Of course - grandma uses pine, hackers use mutt ;)
lkml	email	8/7/2006 11:33:41	http://markmail.org/message/nnmjards65vuiefd	The desktop is where it's really crucial to have good documentation and ease of use. The enterprise can afford to pay people who already knew it well, helped to develop it... Grandma probably got Linux because she couldn't afford a new OS, or computer.
lkml	email	12/14/2006 8:33:24	http://markmail.org/message/6clxfqkmch6attx7	Doesn't that sound even more like the music industry ? Pick on Grandma, and people who've no clue about the issue. It's not the way to solve such problems. The world does not need "The war on binary modules". Educate people instead, and talk to vendors.
lkml	email	2/23/2007 10:01:17	http://markmail.org/message/vtvkclre7rcrufy7	I said that about kernel design - when we have thousand(s) of threads, which do the work - if number of context switches is small (i.e. when operations mostly do not block), then it is ok (although 'ps' output with threads can scary a grandma).
lkml	email	5/1/2007 6:41:22	http://markmail.org/message/pxi4lruubzm2v3f7	The thing about failures is, we're lucky enough to ever see even a single end-user error log. So when we do get the *one* error log from grandma, it had better contain sufficient info for us to at least guess at the solution, because grandma has gone back to OS/X in the meanwhile. ;)
lkml	email	2/23/2008 15:04:43	http://markmail.org/message/bibnt3iztfbkif5c	Is this a safety feature? How often is Grandma going to mount a filesystem containing 2TB+ sized files?
lkml	email	7/15/2008 17:04:02	http://markmail.org/message/5ymnhaibxjxhi7fd	in case it wasn't clear, i'm not talking about just about any person like my grandma, but people whose work involves following kernel development, who can use all the extra information to make judgement calls about what to prioritize.
lkml	email	1/25/2011 16:59:30	http://markmail.org/message/5hxejiygdrhixeah	Yaay, twatch looks almost like a child's play and even my grandma can profile her system now :).
lkml	email	8/19/2012 14:04:26	http://markmail.org/message/qcmzt5hbpyuk3a67	That is *always* going to be easier than figuring out ahead of time which files you want, and then manually copying them onto a thumb drive, and then taking the thumb drive to the car.... Somehow I can't quite imagine your grandma manually copying files over using LanyFS. :-)
lkml	email	3/12/2014 8:10:37	http://markmail.org/message/x3v65aqv4akejodh	And the distribution just magically installs itself onto a computer? No, a user does, and in doing so, they set up udev. A person installing a distribution is a sysadmin. Even if it's grandma installing it herself. She owns the box, no one else is doing anything for her (unless it's your grandma).
lkml	email	3/24/2014 16:11:06	http://markmail.org/message/l2or4qjnmxsdp4ee	I guess we can make use of all the practical advice/links that we can get... (such as hints at good candidates of existing KMSified drivers which don't come with the full bells and whistles package, hints at suitably sized KMS support commits, grandma tutorials, ...).
lkml	email	2/5/1998 5:29:15	http://markmail.org/message/urnwrg4h33ltjcen	I just sent my mom (two thousand miles away) a Mac for her birthday.  She's never used a computer before (except for "terminals" at work, now Windoze boxen running 3270 emulators, and the occasional game of Mahjonng for DOS -- that was installed by a co-worker).  The crucial question was:  what can I send here that requires almost no skills and no administration?
lkml	email	7/21/1998 5:31:47	http://markmail.org/message/xzpromkbrhi55o3i	BTW: my mom always said "Don't use floating-point code in kernel." ;-}
lkml	email	11/24/2001 20:10:22	http://markmail.org/message/qweiq5bfmv32ext7	Stick with the tested, QA'd, vendor-supplied kernel unless you're a developer or a skilled, adventurous sys admin who reads lkml! kernel tarballs are NOT for mom -
lkml	email	12/4/2001 12:06:52	http://markmail.org/message/mooaoynskgbcwhow	This is partly why the whole "now your mom can easily configure her kernel" is a bs argument to me. Forget my mom..._I_ want things a certain way. My mom, if I ever forc^H^H^H^H get her to use Linux, will surely use the distro's kernel.
lkml	email	12/4/2001 13:22:44	http://markmail.org/message/sgyyyj7skwvpzfk4	And I agree, your Mom, my Mom and their friends, when linux comes to their computer will use the the kernel that distro X gave them and will probably never, ever even worry about it. Unless people like you and me go to their house and upgrade it for them. :-)
lkml	email	3/10/2002 0:36:31	http://markmail.org/message/u72bv7my5cyfzvwf	I think that if version control becomes as simple as turning on a plugin for a directory or file, and then adding a little to the end of a filename to see and list the old versions, Mom can use it.
lkml	email	1/7/2003 18:29:25	http://markmail.org/message/k4lxsbgxkhoer2ra	If someone's mom (having heard the gossip) asks their computer-literate child, `What is this XXX thing, anyway?', the answer is likely to be very different when XXX is "GNU" as opposed to when XXX is "Linux".
lkml	email	1/9/2003 6:34:47	http://markmail.org/message/7i7ud3z4quijtuek	I am new to this thread, but I do use the "my mom" example because my mother *is* the computer pioneer I know in that generation, but one who still finds them difficult. She has been using computers since she got a new Macintosh Plus and a 30 MB hard disk, and she has been using e-mail since before it was clear to everybody that @-signs would be a universal part of e-mail addresses. However, she is also still not a computer wiz and I think never will be--there seems to be a generational thing here, like learning a foreign language in adulthood, that keeps computers hard. When my mother was a little girl electricity was still new, and was useful for lighting.
lkml	email	1/8/2003 23:20:21	http://markmail.org/message/zflk2pouk4easocm	"Mother" == "computer-illiterate" How come no one ever talks about a Linux distribution so easy that your grandfather could install it?  Or a kernel configuration tool so simple that even Uncle Timmy can use it? Can we quit with the "clueless mother" examples already?  My own mother has installed more distributions of Linux than I've even logged into.  I know quite a few mothers who have PhDs in CS, own several CS-related patents, and/or made  important fundamental discoveries in CS.  Hint: Find out who invented the spanning tree algorithm for ethernet bridges, $10 ThinkGeek gift certificate to the first person who emails me the correct answer.
lkml	email	6/9/2006 14:51:25	http://markmail.org/message/p2uhzoodibzkevpe	If the distro vendor did default to ext3+extents and it screwed your hypothetical extents-naive user (booting a non-vendor kernel isn't something your mom is going to do) then they strayed too far from their Linux comfort-zone.
lkml	email	3/31/2009 9:14:43	http://markmail.org/message/uya5azdymrrvdi7a	If you want judgement calls, call your mom. Not your filesystem.
lkml	email	3/14/2011 12:07:32	http://markmail.org/message/uctl4r4ezn5gtcws	Your mom runs Linux? Which distro?
lkml	email	4/4/2012 23:42:22	http://markmail.org/message/2zunmf45aucwfyl5	If I need a reason to like global better, posix like: the user shall not fool around with my "mom" vs a wishy washy comedy variant of same ;-)
lkml	email	3/11/2013 20:40:03	http://markmail.org/message/4eau577oaq26imt7	This should allow us developers to focus on convincing PHBs to always work upstream without having them to persuade their own 'private' releases to customers / your mom that typically do carry these patches but they never get merged back upstream.
lkml	email	9/20/2001 15:08:53	http://markmail.org/message/5l7iewb7cstcfhg7	I don't get paid to do this, and there are only so many hours until my girlfriend gets mad :)
lkml	email	8/6/2002 9:34:55	http://markmail.org/message/i2vk7wqpqtjljtqb	Think of the kernel as a grumpy girlfriend that you just stood up, and bring flowers next time. Linus
lkml	email	10/4/2002 1:07:22	http://markmail.org/message/a7oe54mrdrhai2ki	No, and they don't have girlfriends either, but they do add people to their killfile :-)
lkml	email	6/4/2006 11:44:30	http://markmail.org/message/to3a2qxltlnnltau	Questions? Comments? Flames? Pictures of your girlfriends?
lkml	email	9/19/2007 5:16:07	http://markmail.org/message/fbb5jwbsc3lvmsuk	You might carry it home, might you not? What if your lover/girlfriend/wife is one of them? [3]
lkml	email	11/30/2007 10:34:48	http://markmail.org/message/cc2ctdcvjn52dm2e	I should do a couple of runs, but my girlfriend claims realtime priority for the evening.
lkml	email	7/15/1997 11:13:59	http://markmail.org/message/gwqs6wn22t4fit5d	They, like anyone else, want to spend money occasionally on entertainment, a nice anniversary present for the wife (or husband, if we have any female developers), and other such things.
lkml	email	7/28/1998 9:16:12	http://markmail.org/message/xqh3fan44amfewf4	Now the X-term I have for my wife isn't working! You can imagine the hell I'm catching right now... ;-D
lkml	email	12/1/1998 12:23:35	http://markmail.org/message/d66vinfyabfwi2ay	The problem is that some of the more esoteric languages out there would have a grammar so twisted [1] that you couldn't get around things like printk("Holy %s, your %s has gone %s!",cow,wife,crazy) that easily.
lkml	email	5/9/1999 13:22:36	http://markmail.org/message/4ltk4egxkyeh7nlf	As with Vasilios, I can test any solutions on my crash-and-burn system. Only limit is how much time my wife will let me spend in front of the PC :-(.
lkml	email	4/5/2000 13:57:48	http://markmail.org/message/twperzas4ekka3j4	I hope this helps someone diagnose the problem. On the humorous side, my wife isn't happy at the number of coasters I've made while working through this process.  Such is life.
lkml	email	4/29/2000 1:40:24	http://markmail.org/message/n6q5s7vgdvramg4r	I may get a chance to do some testing myself, but my wife has thoughts of decorating :-(
lkml	email	4/24/2001 6:01:51	http://markmail.org/message/fxc5yco2u2q37pe4	So they buy Macs. <- This is not a joke or a criticism. My wife is a happy and contented ignorant mac user.
lkml	email	5/12/2001 6:39:56	http://markmail.org/message/eez2kf5ubdj26dye	Okay, but another way of looking at it is as an instance of the classic joke: Husband:  What have I done wrong this time? Wife:     If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you!
lkml	email	9/15/2001 20:51:08	http://markmail.org/message/k6i3eypntainsdmz	OK, I'll see if I can whip together a test case tomorrow. (No promises -- my wife is starting to wonder if I'll ever emerge from my office.)
lkml	email	10/7/2002 11:55:38	http://markmail.org/message/4savanb3hhr73bwh	Personally I'm willing to pay a reasonable license fee for it but it's gotta be something that I can afford without getting my head torn off by my wife.
lkml	email	4/15/2003 16:13:28	http://markmail.org/message/jv7bs2a4rtxlkc6g	If you're wondering why I'm expending so much energy on shrinking the kernel memory usage by a mere 68431 bytes, it's because I'm a geek, and I'm having a blast.  Isn't the open source movement great?  :)  Now, it's time to go home to see my wife.  Yes, I have one of those.  :)
lkml	email	8/30/2003 8:02:43	http://markmail.org/message/5hgylcqr2ncvnzpk	I'm rebuilding as we speak. I shouldn't be patching & building kernels while talking to my wife.
lkml	email	9/23/2003 15:54:00	http://markmail.org/message/a7seuhlnfs4ma2av	You're acting like a husband that has a wife that refuses to use make-up, and thinks that everybody else should have ugly wives too, and calls them whores for being prettier. Actually, in the CVS analogy, I don't think it's that your wife refuses to use make-up, but that make-up doesn't actually help.
lkml	email	7/30/2004 5:55:48	http://markmail.org/message/c3davhmh2mrfb3pp	I can do that after couple of days.. I have to get married tomorrow and spend some time with my wife. =)
lkml	email	11/5/2004 12:00:56	http://markmail.org/message/turu6cysueljnlvk	My wife is almost killing me, its Friday night and I've been telling her "just another minute" for hours. Have to run.
lkml	email	10/5/2005 15:20:56	http://markmail.org/message/xy4r6joabc3gluqw	Doing this and writing descriptions for each patch has also taken a long time, especially because Suspend is by no means the only thing I do with my life (although my wife sometimes feels otherwise!).
lkml	email	11/24/2005 7:21:28	http://markmail.org/message/d3mkfh52bi54zydv	OK, it'll have to wait till tomorrow. As you probably know, it is Thanksgiving here in the US. And my wife would kill me if I work today ;-)
lkml	email	12/8/2005 17:09:14	http://markmail.org/message/7xpqz7px7vdhhcun	I'm in the UK. But my lawyer is busy getting rid of a wife for me so I am not going to volunteer. :-)
lkml	email	1/7/2006 4:04:06	http://markmail.org/message/lge2smif3hsbclnw	Yeah, that patch was just a quick fix. I'll look more into that on Monday. (My wife has too many chores for me this weekend ;)
lkml	email	2/20/2006 2:40:34	http://markmail.org/message/wubfm4tm2ekkxc33	I work on it up to 20% of work hours (thanks, Cyclades), and the remainder of the work is done in my own time. This often means that things move more slowly than I'd like, but my wife will happily testify that I still spend too much time on it :)
lkml	email	5/3/2006 2:31:15	http://markmail.org/message/pytlbch7adkwbqte	Unemployed guys can't buy new toys without wives getting all grumpy ;-)
lkml	email	1/1/2007 12:49:35	http://markmail.org/message/lqtty2v3fdckv4cf	Outside of the two bugfix pushes, I've been actively avoiding computers during the holidays. It's a shocking concept I'm trying with the new wife :)
lkml	email	10/27/2007 9:05:21	http://markmail.org/message/fm3ciszdecjctwtr	I'll most likely do this on Monday since process Wife has the highest priority over the weekend ;-)
lkml	email	10/3/2008 22:45:05	http://markmail.org/message/wjebfx5bdwyvyhc7	I'll comment more when I'm more awake. But that may not be until Monday. Putting in 16 hour days during the week, my wife puts her foot down and keeps me away from the computer during the weekend.
lkml	email	12/2/2008 8:29:17	http://markmail.org/message/bhbmecm4qmx5dkfi	My wife will kill me if I says: Hey baby, wait 260min to me compile a lot of kernel here.
lkml	email	1/10/2009 15:03:40	http://markmail.org/message/ihf2gy3hxmgyeqlt	I'll give this a try on Monday (no work over the weekend, wife's orders).
lkml	email	2/5/2009 14:38:41	http://markmail.org/message/45qk7wrv3sr5ah7o	Now only if I can get Arnaldo to do the TODO list my wife gives me ;-)
lkml	email	6/20/2009 18:05:07	http://markmail.org/message/b6t2t4jpqxbxayq5	I wasn't being purposely coy. It was late friday and I was getting pressure from the wife to get off the computer ;)
lkml	email	4/21/2011 8:33:52	http://markmail.org/message/ymwt5kb3xfyth2cd	I'll start it today, but as I have off tomorrow, and my wife has already filled all my time up with Honeydew tasks (and this extends into the weekend), I'll have to continue it next week.
lkml	email	11/27/2012 15:19:15	http://markmail.org/message/cqw5kt6zbvmg4ikv	Ok, guys. Cage fight! The rules are simple: two men enter, one man leaves. And the one who comes out gets to explain to me which patch(es) I should apply, and which I should revert, if any...
lkml	email	7/16/2013 6:13:53	http://markmail.org/message/htbeakz4wlh7rpwx	I'm sitting in the middle of nowhere on a lake using tethering for internet and hiding from my wife so she doesn't catch me doing "work". Crap, I think she's coming...
lkml	email	9/13/2014 7:48:43	http://markmail.org/message/aaz66ijkrbklobky	What? Me working? Um, no! This is just, um, my physical therapy. Yeah, that's it. Part of my therapy is to stare at a monitor and randomly raise and lower my fingers on top of a keyboard. Alright, alright, you caught me  :-p  Please don't tell my wife!!!!
lkml	email	11/1/2014 5:23:02	http://markmail.org/message/gx5qnogveotcmrdh	I'd write a patch to fix this, but my wife has me doing other chores.