benno: problem i ran into is geas driver is PRIMITIVE for forms it can only deal with 'flat' objects as soon as an object starts to be inherited etc the driver cant support this shoudl change in next two weeks but you can surely start the basic classes thats what id did cool thx Action: andrewm runs away.. have fun, people :) andrewm (andrewm@203.97.82.178) left irc: A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, then asks you not to kill him. can I just check I have the overall model correct, you start up geas which will go through and and find .gcd files to load. Clients will then run gfclient to read a .gfd file which give them the user interface and talks to the geas server brb jcater (jason@memphis.ncsmags.com) left irc: rebooting yip cool slashcode work with postgres Action: chillywilly yanks mysql out for good slash code is a rESOURCE piggie I don't care, scoop is an administration nightmare not if you don't load all the plugins jcater (jason@memphis.ncsmags.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly: um it uses modperl mod perl is a pig sow aht so does scoop bleh scoop is a pig too then byt that terminology bleh bleh bleh slashcode seems to be a hell of a lot easier for me to install, even has a nice INSTALL.debian that tells you what debian packages to install yea cause they all use debian :) they kick ass I wouldn't say that. why? it's also GPL'd what more do you want? I dunno, big freakin perl scripts just don't turn me on anymore. didn't say the software was the best, just seems not to be a huge pain like scoop Thats something They use MySQL though don't they? nickr: :) nickr: any news on docustore? wrt it being part of gnue derek: the evil genius wants to try some funky ownership thing, we're discussing it tomarrow, its just details though, we're definitely for it ok i will wait for details as its important details :) i want to start moving things forward and get you guys up as part of the 'brand name' ASAP if it all looks good Indeed which begs question would you be opposed to calling it GNUe Docustore if its in GNUe thats what its called, no? :) :) well we try not to DEMAND things but that would be our preference as we are trying to build a brand that enterprises recognize Indeed. so some day like m$ people go GNUe xxxxx sure go ahead install it its GNUe its gotta be good :) :) is sourceforge down AGAIN! damn skippy yay! jcater (jason@memphis.ncsmags.com) left irc: nite I want it to be called GNUe fiveAssedMonkey actually sweet dying to see the product logo ;) haha we coudl do 'plushy toys' to match ;) can either of you get to sourceforge.net connection refused by server I got a timeout ok its got to be down more than about any site i can think of Bot (steve@nat210.247.mpoweredpc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. roflmao Action: Bot just wanted to let people know #linuxjournal is now open sorry to distirb your sleep in here ? have nice day :) Bot (steve@nat210.247.mpoweredpc.net) left #gnuenterprise. ack, maybe I should try PHP nuke, perl is a fucking piece of shit :) it is the tool of satan himself Perl is satanic but mildly entertaining python is shitznit er, shiznit So I'm going to write a cron-like program with sub-minute resolution, any ideas how to approach it? now I gotta rip all these stupid ass modules out they are seriously infringing on much needed disk space good lord I know PHP is much easier to setup ok PHP nuke here I come mod_perl is even more eviler CPAN is a repository for crack addicts CPAN rocks if you have 8 years to search if it has what you need :) heh, or a really fats mirror fast well the CPAN shell is cool, but the mirrors are always so slo w I just can't take it anymore no more mod_perl solutions hey you guys create your own theme for PHP nuke? ack, maybe my connection just blows brb chillywilly (baumannd@d173.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Philosophers and plow men, each must know his part, to sow a new mentality closer to the heart... chillywilly (baumannd@d59.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. does jamest have the PHP nuke tarball somewhere? I can't get it off this ftp server bah, screw this I'll deal with this shit tomorrow mayeb then jamest can help me out later fellas chillywilly (baumannd@d59.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Philosophers and plow men, each must know his part, to sow a new mentality closer to the heart... benno (benno@holly.sesgroup.net) left #gnuenterprise. Nick change: derek -> dnZzzz Action: dnZzzz is away: snoozing Nick change: ajmitch -> ajzzzz http://www.pe.net/~koobie/GBA.html madlocke (madlocke@pD9505F47.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. stbain (stbain@linux.pnsinc.net) got netsplit. madlocke (madlocke@pD9505F47.dip.t-dialin.net) got netsplit. ajzzzz (ajmitch@p10-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) got netsplit. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) got netsplit. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) returned to #gnuenterprise. stbain (stbain@linux.pnsinc.net) got lost in the net-split. ajzzzz (ajmitch@p10-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) got lost in the net-split. madlocke (madlocke@pD9505F47.dip.t-dialin.net) got lost in the net-split. thierry (thierry@AMarseille-201-1-1-10.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. madlocke (madlocke@pD9505F47.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ajzzzz (ajmitch@p11-max3.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. stbain (stbain@linux.pnsinc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ jamest: hello hi hi jamest... hey! long time no see yes... had to write some text for the diploma thesis... ah have you done any updates to the new UI prototype? i saw there is a new version of gnuef... and a new website and new ... a lot of new things ;) yes, and it took too much time :( I started to go thru yout prototype but didn't have anyone to bounce questions off of currently i am doing it a theoretic stuff for gnuef... so quit to work on that other stuff however drawing uml diagrams with dia and so on a complete UI overhaul is in the works ASAP things we'll need to support are curses, wxpython, similar crap, html, and bayonne i think it is important to have up to date documentation... the bayonne thing might be cool the docs on gnuef are up to date the design docs are not but we're basically in clean up mode before gutting a bunch of crap i saw the updated techref, yes... but for developers it is good to have diagrams i think.. i like them ;) I like people willing to make them :) for the internal structure... I never seem to find the time wierd btw... concerning the website... do you know ezpublish? the server seemed to not process cronjobs for last 15 houts no, i do not know ezpublish wait... waiting...... look at http://developer.ez.no/article/static/7/ looking... looks alot like php nuke on the surface there was a discussion about these two... ez publish has a lot more features except better user control wish I would have known about this before nuke admin interface, bug tracking, .. sure... sorry for that... was not there for a too long time... btw what happened to the irc logs_ ? cause I really don't have the time/desire to redo the entire site yet again well, they broke on the old server Mr_You (car@vpshost2.vitalserver.com) joined #gnuenterprise. and the new ones just came up yesterday via bigbrother www.gnuenterprise.org/irc-logs if phpnuke works well then use it... -> never change a running system ,) thx I never said it works well it works however :) :) so your thesis still on UI? zes yes hm... i have some new ideas... :) you are having links between GFWidgets and the driver widgets as you probably know i was melting both.... but reading a lot about design patterns i don't know if the melt is such a good idead but the kind of link you are doing is not very dynamic i think... perhaps we can do something like I really don't want them meltted together the following: (me too ;) but the current links were proof on concept that never got changed like much of what I do get it working then move on :) ok... have to think where to start so you are not confused afterwards ;) lol before you start lemme say yes? the links have become blured in the name of get it working so the UI drivers are too tied to the form widgets in the current design yes... every widget has an identifier... ok, just wanted to make sure we're heading the same way :) yes i am... cool i want to have an interface for the driver that does accept messages with the following fields: - destination widget - kind of message first field can be a string for example: form.mywidget like a dom tree but the tree must not be the same that the ui driver uses yes it is just like widget identifier within a name space the second field is for example: signal there is data for the widget, so something like setdata has to be called it's a message oriented connection if the destination widget doesn't support the kind of message it signals an error or a warning, depending on the priority i don't know at the moment how similar to what we have now then? erm... maybe i have to take another look at it... except that the data is passed in string format vs python dictionary format then you must have changed a lot since the last time not really maybe I misunderstand as now we have a crossref table (based upon the gfform tree :( ) hm... some questions... and we use triggers to pass is message like 'requestNEXTENTRY' in text format attached to that trigger is a python dictionary ok... but if you want to change a widget, the problems w/ this were the driver was passed the tree to build the UI, this was bad the dictionary was python centric, again bad dynamic widgets didn't work, a major shortcomming wait... you don't want to use things like dicts and so on? well we can but I was a little unhappy w/ it why? if you are unhappy with i figured it make writing the html front end harder how the dicts are used in gnuef... ok understand... but I hadn't really dug into it yet ok... the html driver has to act a bit different... nor do I have a better idea, my concerns with switching would be performance hit switching = switching to something like an xml stream anyway, I'll shutup so I can let you talk :) sth. like soap? sth.? something? yep :) i have not looked at SOAP an example... you want to change a widget but not after a user request the model wants to change it then normally you use the GFObject, follow the link to the real widget and change it right? hm.. you build the ui... get data out of a db and have to fill the values of the widgets... how to you get the values into the widgets? a trigger message no wait the values in the widgets reflect what's in the form yes so the backend objects change value then send a 'updateEntry" trigger to the UIdriver ah ok... that trigger currently passes a refernce to the backend object oh... hm.. yeah uck The person that coded this musta been on crack oh wait, that was me :) ;) anyway , this is the reason I plan to gut the UI system as the current one is hack upon hack IMHO if you don't pass a reference but send data with a message and a name of the widget to change... and I really want to work new features in that are a nightmare now this would be ok i think that would work that's the soap way ;) it would require a structured record containing yes the objects values for all records as the UI system deals w/ the concept of multiple visible objects not the backend that way if the UI can't deal w/ multiple visible it's no big deal yes on what are you working at the moment? maybe we can coordinate that a bit... and what are the features you where talking before? besides multiple visible objects ok, now I'm working toward cleaning up for a 0.1.0 release are there any written goals for this version? that means windows support, polishing stuff, etc, etc nothing on paper we're pretty much beyond anything we expected for 0.1.0 does php-nuke support something like tasks? the next goal was better ties into geas then UI rewrite 0.1.0 - polish 0.2.0 - geas 0.3.0 - ui but I'm not real hppy with that as we've got people wanting geas AND curses (broken now) so the demand is in both areas and geas works now in a limited fashion the new features I'd like to see are dynamic widgets - 'updateWidgetProperties' message customizable menu system internationalization support customizable toolbars multi-page objects - I tell a object it's at x,y on pages 1,2,3 a much simpler wrapper driver per UI, w/ as much as possible moved to UIbase (already partially done) what gfd do you use for test at the moment? support for newer widgets (embedded notebook tab support instead of the whole form thing we have now, image widget) what=which we don't have a tourture test gfd we run thru those in samples but somethign always slips thru the cracks last release went out w/ broken buttons so a torture.gfd would probably be a wise addition reinhard was talking about layout management some time ago are there any news? none yet thanks for the reminder ok layout managment I'm going to cut and paste this into the gnuef TODO good... we need to be a bit more formal in order to work together... yes so i immediately start looking at the code and the samples again... we have copyright from you dont we? erm... haven't send the formular back yet, but will do that tomorrow in the morning... ok, cool sorry to be a stickler about it no problem... we've got 22 people on the list already :) i know you need it and i know now how it works ;) gnue is growning up but I'd love to see the help on the UI system also we've got to work with jcater ok. he's working in forms now too mainly on designer and we've started moving things to a gnue-common package for reuse where possible i wanted to try the designer but there are some problems.. oh yeah :) goot approach... huh? goot=good to move things to gnue-common well, that stuff is used in designer and forms and reports approach is the wrong word .. ); erm.. ok... also, my long term goal.... as far as UI (ok, more of a dream :) would be the designer itself uses the UIsystem to draw it's interface let's make dreams become true ;) so that it works on any platform the UIsystem supports :) shit... i forgot the name of the ui designer mainly used within gnome... you know it's name? Action: jamest will now wait for madlocke to quit laughing glade yes... I tried gutting it for gnuef designer once it's way to tied to gtk ah ok... also maybe it's arrogance or something but gnuef UI system isn't your typical widget set as it's simpler and more of a suggestion system so that if dropdowns aren't supported by the UIdriver then it's no big deal, the system still just works yes i know... that's very good.... if that make sense? i think yes... it better to have an ugly interface than no interface... sometimes you just want to edit something, no matter how... I could really vent on UI stuff at times :) sometimes i am using lyx because other browsers are too ugly :) take the red, yellow, green buttons on apple's aqua interface wtf is up with that? red means stop, yellow means.....slow? lynx not lyx ;) :) i didn't notice the misspelling ok ;) so what kinda time line you have in mind hey, would be a good feature for 1.April... "guess what's this" widgets ;) :) I need to know how long we'll be able to enslave you j/k :) from now on... until.... hmm i will tell you ); in any case for a minimum of two month but no whips please... i hate whips ... handcuffs are better ;) grin... have to think about new company strategies ;) :) cool ok so my emacs window is wide open... ups hope i don't need another monitor for this ;) btw... you are using docbook for techref? :) lyx i probably should use docbook but I could never build the tools on solaris so I got ticked off i am asking becaus lyx 1.6.1fix complains about text class "docbook-b..." ah i think i set the doc type to docbook at one time as a test which works fine on solaris as I can instll the dtds i just can't get the tools to build part of the new century's free developers motto "We work on every varity of unix as long as it linux" We're cross platform! We support debian, red hat, mandrake, suse...... :) sorry - another sore spot w/ me ... windows :) some low level error msg are sometimes very interesting... for example read error on /dev/hd??? it was nt i think... huh? /dev/hd? on WinNT? yep! i swore NT was VMS based and I don't recall /dev/hd on vms how odd appeared during boot up if i remember correctly :) so your working on design docs for new UI then? or you doing something else? and I assume the old prototype isn't in the work anymore first i look at the code, the i try to get the code into diagrams then we can easier discuss it yes ok also good for jcater... so we can discuss which classes to share between gnuef and designer chillywilly (baumannd@d68.as1.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ok ko Action: madlocke throws medkit to chilly ;) Action: Mr_You KOs chilly. madlocke: you diagramming in UML? yes any good free refs to UML anywhere hm... i am using dia at the moment.... there is argouml for example... but last version was very slow... ah sorry... you were not talking about tools ;) dia was the one we picked for docs as well I've just never found a good ref on uml oh thanks Mr_You Action: chillywilly kicks Mr_You *hard* jcater (jason@memphis.ncsmags.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: hey, we have a new victim! howdy y'all well, an old victim that didn't quite get away madlocke was and still is going to help with the UI rewrite hi jcater I've started compiling a list of must haves in the gnuef TODO jamest: you got a tarball of PHP Nuke around? yes why I want it you got it, toyota! scoop and slashcode suck ass well it's at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jamest/ BUT you using 5.0? but what? 5.0RC1 and it's a little buggy 5.0 is out now right when I looked last night that's the tarball I'm giving you 5.0final just haven't had time to upgrade ash BUT smut http://developer.ez.no/article/static/7/ is ezpublish madlocke showed it to me today supposidly have more features than nuke hmmmmm kewl I'll check it out we like to keep you running arround don't we who does? oh, yes you do :P :) it's cool why does everyone and their mother use mysql mysql: kid tested. mother approved? hehe masta I have been arguing some more withthe FD .NET freaks Nick change: dnZzzz -> derek andru (andru@203.97.82.178) joined #gnuenterprise. andru_ (andru@203.97.82.178) joined #gnuenterprise. andru_ (andru@203.97.82.178) left irc: viva l'emperour hi chillywilly I am gonna let them be though I have afeeling that it will die off anyway morning derek good morning Nick change: derek -> dnWork chillywilly (baumannd@d68.as1.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Ping timeout for chillywilly[d68.as1.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net] dnWork: http://www.fedosconference.com/ have you seen this before? seems to be hooked to LWE SF chillywilly (baumannd@d107.as0.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (baumannd@d107.as0.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Philosophers and plow men, each must know his part, to sow a new mentality closer to the heart... hey people. andru: hi hey andru dnWork (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Ping timeout for dnWork[cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net] hello again (delayed reaction) ajzzzz (ajmitch@p11-max3.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajzzzz[p11-max3.dun.ihug.co.nz] galum chillywilly (baumannd@d107.as0.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@alt2.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@24.113.102.239) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: jbailey -> network Nick change: network -> jbailey thierry (thierry@AMarseille-201-1-1-10.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: [x]chat neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.140.213.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ hello all can somebody tell me the address of the logs again http://www.gnuenterprise.org/irc-logs/ i think thats it, thanks Action: jbailey is away: phone website now updated to reflect new location of logs thanks i did look there before asking nice log: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/irc-logs/gnue-public.log dneighbo: any way to get the log to wrap after 80 characters? Action: jbailey is back (gone 00:06:28) dneighbo: and is it possible to the time in the log? neilt: yip we need to bug jamest and i have a program that will format to HTML with colors live hyperlinks and you could define wrapping rules etc wrote a while back and never implemented just for the irc logs? Just attack it with sed and some stylesheets. i wrote python program for it real simple one when i was on plane to newyork first real python i wrote it did more than format it made so you could send delayed messages to each other or the list and you could segment live irc by topics dneighbo: why aren't we using it/ ? to mail the mail lists nightly synopsis of relative topics as currently we do thign slike ** NOTE TO REINHARD ** some note instead you would do **BEGIN:EMAIL reinhard@gnue.org blah [12:43] MSG541 **END:EMAIL reinhard@gnue.org and it would email that to him or **BEGIN:GEAS geas is cool it rocks love geas **END:GEAS and a geas page would be created so someone wanting to read the logs only interested in geas would only get the lines between the geas stuff anyhow some day will put it up how about today? dont have time I think relying on begin/end tags might be hard to parse, to keep from counting on typos, etc. dneighbo: you code tease you Maybe better to run a bot that you can /msg gnue-serve task derek Write some code! too much jbailey bots not where we want it we want it in general log we just want way to do things with the log its not features for common users its features for our maintainers /msg jbailey we == "the way masta wants it and if you don't like it tough shit" chillywilly :) hehe soft shit is more acceptable but i suppose if hard is all you got :P I'm just imagining the difficulty of writing a multi-line parser and dealing with human written scripts. =) chillywilly: I *like* it when he whips me because I'm bad. =) oooh, kinky rofl the parse is done Gotta run. human written is well human written :) bye jbailey (jbailey@24.113.102.239) left #gnuenterprise. ah, the temptations of woody I just ate another new install it seems ? why? who the hell knows just run unstable ya freak switch things to woody apt-get dist-upgrade hehe, woody and she goes win98 first edition on my box that names rules apt doesn't break it shatters neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.140.213.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[dialup-209.244.140.213.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net] plz, apt is you secret lover and you know it sigh, all I wanted was a working X w/ kernel 2.4 and an i810 chipset [11:51:34] [ gui ] X 40100000 GTK 1.2.10 Linux obfuscation 2.4.5 #1 Thu May 31 00:50:55 CDT 2001 i686 unknown :PPPP Action: chillywilly rubs it in is anyone here? other than chillywilly no offense chillywilly i think my xchat is hosed what kinda internet connect doe sksu have? connection IIRC OC3 ooooh, you really suck Action: chillywilly is jealous now chillywilly (baumannd@d107.as0.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Philosophers and plow men, each must know his part, to sow a new mentality closer to the heart... we're Internet2 baby was thinking of a GNUE movie instead of Fast and the Furious The Paranoid and the Delusional what? haha chillywilly (baumannd@d107.as0.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy roflmao dying get this from a joke list Q. Do you know how New Zealanders practice safe sex? A. They spray paint X's on the back of the animals that kick. im gonna fall off my chair Ahahahahaaha nickr its exceptionally funny seeing how we have like a ton of NZ'ers here hahh I lovet and we mention goats a lot crap, I think my keyboard battery is dying Q. What do you call a lesbian with fat fingers? A. Well-hung. is pretty funny too heeh loose track of days whiling a way I don't have strength to get away madlocke (madlocke@pD9505F47.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error to madlocke[pD9505F47.dip.t-dialin.net]: EOF from client nice jokes masta :) especially the ones about the kiwis;) sklein (sklein@2Cust15.tnt35.tco2.da.uu.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: you around? anybody been tracking the gnuef bugs? ente them at savannah support er, enter is that on the web page? http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/gnue/ savannha is the GNU project's SourceForge-like place here (same software) jamest: I ran the devel install last night. Got bugs when I tried to run gnuef and designer. Today the setup.py gives errors I did a cvs update thinking that yesterdays bugs might have ben fixed and ran into todays ben=been :) there's no escape from our bugs btw - what errors? or goats ;) what errors sklein? well, in setup.py it gives me an error due to invalid syntax of <<<<<<<< setup.py It points to the second <<^ argh! just a sec is this in gnuef dir? geeze don't you test your code jamest? ;) I got something similar when I tried to run gnuef last night from GFOptions.py yes it is in gnuef dir the error last night (before this morning's update) from designer had to do with a "key error" of 3 in menubar.py BTW, my Python is 1.5.2 Could any of this be due to Python changes? no, i devel on 1.5.2 as does jcater IIRC the first error is a cvs conflict cvs conflict??? am I doing cvs wrong? <<<<<<<< is a marker put in by cvs i didn't think it'd even let us check in code like that did you edit setup.py? at any time jsut remove it and pull a new one rm setup.py earlier, but I restored it to the original before I ran anything cvs update just remove it as it probably was off a space or something and generated a conflict marker <<<<<<<<< OK. I'll try that rm setup.py; cvs update But what about the conflict markers inthe stuff I didn't change? like GFOptions and MenuBar those are not complaining about <<<<<< are they? GFOptions is really ahhh, but it looks like it had a change due to the setup.py dang i don't have the conflict here something put in th info about my base directory the MenuBar issue is a key error eh? if you can get me an error dump on that one I can take a look I guess I need to find out which ones are changed by the setup GFOptions.py isn't altered by setup at all it's a file that is probably going away this week I can't get you an error dump until I rerun it after I resetup once you've ran ./setup.py devel you don't need to run it again as it does all it's magic via symlinks and the dir structs don't change too often then I'll just try to run gfdes ok The error is in line 219 in calcDependencies cascade, parents = t[3] I get KeyError : 3 BTW, it never got to the Q&A about the database, etc testing now you trying to run a new form from wizard? my poor form masta is gone and dead forever, *sigh* I wasn't sure how to start up the designer so I just ran "./designer/gfdes" ah from gnuef in cvs you put the symlinks in /usr/local/bin? no so you did ./designer/client/gfdes ? no ./designer/gfdes or ./client/gfcvs that's odd how did you run setup.py? from which dir? ./setup.py from gnuef in the cvs tree that is correct it should have put the apps in gnuef/client/gfcvs and designer/client/gfdes hmmm does gfdes even draw a window for you on startup? no, and there is no designer/client wha? the only subdirectories there are CVS and src wha? ok please go to the top level gnue cvs tree mine's at $HOME/cvs/gnue from there run cvs update -Pd that should pull the missing stuff from cvs OK done. I'll try it now same error jcater (jason@memphis.ncsmags.com) left irc: Read error to jcater[memphis.ncsmags.com]: Connection reset by peer ok do you know have a client dir? know = now no this is bizzar sklien some thing odd with your cvs the <<<<< indicates a local merge failed i woudl co gnue/gnuef in a different dir what do I need to do and try from clean cvs dneighbo: we fixed that jamest: you may have fixed the sympton but if that one file had issue who is to say other files werent merged SUCCESFFULLY i.e. not putting <<<<<<<<<< but merged making not work if that makes sense OK what I'll do is to go around and look for <<<<< or >>>>> in the files i would co a new tree sklein : that wont work you see the <<<<<<< co? only happens if CVS cant 'resolve' differences BUT you see it might resolve diffs in its mind i.e. merge code snippets but the net result is non working code co is checkout what's co? so say you ahve in /home/stan/cvs/gnue/gnuef currently i would mv /home/stan/cvs/gnue /home/stan/cvs/gnue.old or just delete it if you dont have anything in in you want and tehn do co gnue where you want to put gnue this way you can assure you have a clean version of what is in CVS w/o any local merging taking place jcater (jack@memphis.ncsmags.com) joined #gnuenterprise. one thing -- I'm using anon CVS. Does that make any difference? jack? shouldn't ha... I'm back nope shouldnt make a lick of diff jcater: welcome back OK it gives me a chance to reorganize some of my stuff (that I needed to do anyway) I've been logged on all day sklein broke it jcater, not me! but I haven't seen a bit of dialog I only saw logins and logouts wierd dude we've been msging you all day I thought: dang, it sure it quiet today you seeing msg's now then I looked at the logs that stuff about you acting too good to talk w/ us OK I need to go off and reorganize my stuff. be back later. bye we didn't mean it honest sklein (sklein@2Cust15.tnt35.tco2.da.uu.net) left irc: [x]chat sklein: ok, if crap has anyone looked at designer today? i am now wizards dont work I know I made improvements to property editor, though has anyone used SQLRelay? (http://www.firstworks.com/sqlrelay.html) nope darn... I've missed chillywilly's sarcastic remarks all day ;) sucks to be you Action: chillywilly has a nice pepsi stock today you should be safe Action: chillywilly gives everyone a hug while ([store contains:pepsi]) { [cw mood:good]; [cw drink:[store get:pepsi]]; } man objC syntax is hokey so, what did I miss today? nothin' I wasn't asking how much work was done today; I was asking conversation-wise ;)p nothin :) sqlrelay is gpl'd it looks kick-ass I may use it as a backend here for forms until geas is ready so you'd write a driver for it? yes; it has a db-sig 2 interface, so it'd be easy to convert the postgres driver what's wrong with the GEAS driver? Oracle support (or lack there of :) think of it this way: I'd be using sqlrelay as an alternative to ODBC not as an alternative to GEAS i think redoing the postgresql driver isn't more than a few minutes work anyway at least the new driver style and support for more backends is always a good thing did you see all the db's it supports? yes I wonder if we shouldn't check out its internal driver API for geas I mean, look at all the databases it supports :) a lot I'm more interested in the features and it's GPL'd! maybe chillywilly can pull out the useful stuff and stick in geas :) I'm definitely using it for internal web-based projects what is it? gpl'd database middleware that maintains persistant connections does db throttling im not seeing its huge advantage other than doing persistent connections db access in linux just sucks as now we are even more muddy we have ODBC we have direct drivers we could have libGDA then throw in GEAS and add this and reinhard was going to author abstraction library guess we will have lots of choices I see big advantage for me in my situation just wish we could focus in one thing and get it working well and that's what I was talking about ... some of my immediate needs jcater: doesnt the oracle driver work for you? that you wrote? problem is on Oracle end; I have to have Oracle client libraries for every OS I want to run a client app on so if forms runs on windows, I need windows libraries if I run forms on linux, I need linux libraries yeah? um, libraries on Oracle requires licenses what did you expect with a specific driver :) what about ODBC? dneighbo: I'm talking personal needs; not project needs :) jcater: yes but it plays into this project as you arent the only one im sure that will be interested in forms IIRC odbc for oracle requires sql*net which requires a license purchase that uses oracle IMHO this looks like it'll behave better than odbc im not saying its bad to support it especially if it solves problems and stops levy fees to oracle my complaint was that data access sucks as its such a pain its like going ot the smorgas board to choose what to eat :) step up to the table I'll have some sausage for forms and decide hmmmm direct driver, odbc, libGDA, reinhards, sqlrelay, other nickr: roflmao its a GOOD thing we have so many to pick from just we should document them and explain advantages and disadvantages of using them so we dont take the support questions on which one to use and why :) and of course selfishly i would rather see forms, designer, reports, geas being beefed up than adding more db provider support as postgres (my db) works fine :) well, I NEED Oracle support!!!!!! yip understand nickr: about this time each day I ask for your URL today I don't need it :) /msg jamest im gonna have to cancel that check, if you cant get him converted to postgres by end of quarter aw, I had it all ready to type ooops :) dneighbo (dneighbo@alt2.libertydistribution.com) left irc: BitchX: often imitated, never duplicated! nickr: so you still thinking about hooking up w/ gnue? Yes you have a team of people or just yourself? we need to get a count so we can get the chains on order jcater: I have a slight issue with designer that I see *no* way arround only a slight? yes what if I put arround a section of form I want to comment out for a bit then load into designer :) hmm Gparser eats it at least it seems to only thing I know to do is create a tag yeah would that work? i was thinking about that too but then we'd have to have nested entities in the comment object which seems odd I'm not too worried just something I hit hmm I don't really like that solution I'll look into it and see if I can get GParser to save comments don't waste the time honestly it's about a .5 on my issues scale as 90% of people won't hand edit gfd's anyway as designer will be just too fine well, what's 99 on your issue scale? it's not in blue :) seriously, i have no known issues at this time a schema browser would rock but I don't see that in 0.0.1 :) schema browser? and we're still shooting for this weekend right? yep start looking for issues in designer click database driver, click table, choose create datasource I know I need to fix the "Events" property tab have it autocreate the block ? when creating a new form? or what? when building a form kinda like you could with sql*form it'd autocreate the form based upon the db table def ah only better and the drivers don't support that yet :) I'll only add that functionality to the "new" style :) right wouldn't ask for more and I can do it myself like I said, I'm happy with gfdes I think the huge issue for gfdes/gnuef is windows support from setup.py I started looking into it last night btw - i just locked gfdes pulled up properties on a widget via dropdown menu neither the prop dialog, nor the main form would respond couldn't close the prop dialog window hmmm could close main window that hasn't happened to me yet argh! jcater, bad responce no "yet" you say hmm, i don't have that issue then forget I mentioned it :) that was the intention I just worded it wrong ok....good developer sklein (sklein@1Cust75.tnt36.tco2.da.uu.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: I re-co'ed cvs. I ran the setup.py in designer and in gnuef without allowing the /etc stuff. I tried to run the designer and all I got was a message that it couldn't find the connections.conf file. What do I do now? touch /usr/local/gnue/etc/connections.conf jcater: I'm not doing anything in root-controlled directories then set GNUE_CONNECTIONS environment var to point to a local copy of an empty connections.conf you can edit client/gfcvs and change it in there OK or I can use the --connections option and put the empty file somewhere? I haven't added such an option have you jcater? it came up on the program-generated error message the --help worked oh, you mean from gfcvs not from setup.py yes my bad yes that would probably work should owrk OK, will do and the file can be empty yes, the --connections should work dneighbo (dneighbo@alt2.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. sklein you up and running? not yet not yet but close Action: dneighbo gets the hot tar and feathers btw what happened derek jamest: dont get up Action: dneighbo sets egg timer for 10 minutes its called 'high pressure' tech support :) don't need 10 min good sklein is close then i wont need to tar you :) jamest : im writing install wrappers for a closed source program i.e. thier install licks bag so i have to write a custom installer to wrap it and fix registry entries etc that it fouls up so have had to reboot a million times today :) remember this is windows ahhhhh, man becomming online buds w/ your boss sure has paid off for me "Yeah, Derek was telling me he's been jones'n to do some registry hacking" jamest: you have no idea you see i went off on the vendor told them give me the friggin code i will fix and give back to you they liked that idea OK, it popped a window momentarily and then gave me a key error in GConfig.py line49 keyerror: fixedwidthfont and offered to do so sklein: that cause our setup sucks however they wanted someone to sign a release that they wouldnt support the installs anymore if we hacked it which means has to go through legal dept here yada yada yada cp gnue/gnue-common/etc/sample.gnue.conf to $HOME/.gnue/gnue.conf so i wrote a friggin wrapper that probably does MORE damage than if i had the cod e but they are forced legally to still support it sigh Ahhhh it runs!!! Beautiful!!! Action: dneighbo makes notes to never ask sklein to judge beauty contest Action: jcater thins sklein has good taste beauty kimosabe thin=thinks Look folks. It's much much more beautiful than error messages, which is all I got before. It's real and live and looks like it will grow up to be great :) actually i think its pretty nice too grow up? I'm ready to retire it as "mature" :) after all, it's going on 3 weeks old Mr_You (car@vpshost2.vitalserver.com) left irc: home I started playing with the designer and ran into some bugs. Should I report those here or post them to savannah ? here andrewm (andrewm@203.97.82.178) joined #GNUenterprise. OK I brought up the designer and opened gnuef/samples/contact.gfd I could look at the various pages using the tree function but when I tried to use the pull down menu to get to them I got a segmentation fault and the whole program/screens and all died we should setup bug tracking on savannah for designer eh It said something about "core dumped" but I didn't think we had core any more I thought we had ram :) sklein: ah, I see your problem.. you're expecting helpful and informative error messages :) ok now one can submit bugs to savannah for designer andrewm: no, just ones I can interpret somehow, even if they mislead :) "Designer has a bug... Exiting" OK, I will learn to use savannah sklein: would you do me one favour? when people try to argue that python programs can't crash, remind them that you got designer to segfault :) will savannah automatically email me with the bugs? andrewm: it's wxwindows crashing jcater: you misspelled "UnplannedFeature(TM)" :) sorry, I sure did jcater: well, there's still python in there :) "Designer has a lot of features... some useful and some not. This is not. " jcater: the first step toward self-diagnosing code Knowing you have a problem is the first step :) lol "hello, my name is designer. and I.. I.. have a bug" *applause* um jcater i think you'll get a mail yes you will get one anyone else wants in on the fun http://www.gnuenterprise.org/mailman/listinfo/gnue-savannah subscribe to that list chillywilly: you play w/ typo3 or ezpublisher yet? nope PHP nuke how do you set mysql up though? huh? i apt-get it then did what it said know that but to add useres and such ran one sql statement that came w/ nuke it tells you tp create a databse first s/tp/to I don't recall chillywilly: you RTFM ;) or have someone handy who's already RTFM :) Action: chillywilly slaps jamest around hoping to spring board his memory Action: chillywilly also slaps andrewm around jjust because it's fun :P chillywilly (baumannd@d107.as0.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: bbl OK. I registered with savannah and posted the segfault bug there. got to get going. evening meeting. looking forward to lots of fun playing with designer sklein (sklein@1Cust75.tnt36.tco2.da.uu.net) left irc: [x]chat ajmitch (ajmitch@p23-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. l8r jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: [x]chat Mr_You (car@vpshost2.vitalserver.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hey is there a standard source code directory for cvs besides /src/master? cvs server just curious chillywilly (baumannd@d182.as1.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: Mr_You goes to read. re I'm setting up my first cvs server ;-) heh, kewl I used to run one locally for keeping track f things dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) got netsplit. hmm was jamest coming back? dres (dres@4.18.171.42) got lost in the net-split. heh, they didn't break M$ up? what the fuck nope they repealed it in appeals court chillywilly: apparantly th4e judge said bad things, and they've decided he was too naughty to be allowed to break MS up :) though the trial isn't dead yet (it's just a flesh wound :) ugh, they're inteviewing Gates chillywilly: let me guess - more of him saying "see? I said we were wonderful" ? he's sounds like such a weenie jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201147.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ hey jamest hi I assume you unpack PHPNuke in the wen tree?!? er, web yip man this rocks compared to friggin scoop or slushdot jcater: hey whihc PHP you got install 4.x? er, which i think so i know about the license issues but something made me bump up don't recall what PHP 4.x is nicer, just not GPL compatiblem, but doesn't really mean you can't use the language just can use their code i anything bleh, its a real brainbender to get barcode to make a sheet of barcodes for stickers truly free ;) jamest: had somethin gto tell you but forgot what it was :( "code faster slave?" nope i recall it being important though so now im mad i cant remember was it related to project i think so maybe not argh my poor brain sklein (sklein@1Cust67.tnt36.tco2.da.uu.net) joined #gnuenterprise. derek: I always work on the theory that if someone forgets what they were going to say, it was either a lie or not important ;) jamest or jcater: I tried to do new form from wizard. I got a message that there was no module templates.forms when it tried to import Simple.py The stuff is there, so it sounds like a pythonpath problem. wizards are not working yet OK, I won't bother with that. I'll look at something else bye. sklein (sklein@1Cust67.tnt36.tco2.da.uu.net) left irc: [x]chat l8r he's quick this is problem wiht designer :) it takes lots of work adn people get hung up on designer features instead of writing applications :) but its a good problem to have :) unless of course you are jcater :) hmmm Action: jcater doesn't want to be me any more andrewm : for the record im sure it was both i.e. an unimportant lie lol jamest: did you create the GNUe theme or is it a borrowed one? gnue has a theme? the gnue theme is the nuke theme that I modified to meet our colorscheme jcater: well, we have a mascot, at least hmm, we need a theme song? :) we got one "isn't it ironic" just ask masta "yeah a little too ironic" masta of code slaves I forget where I put it Day is never finished, masta got me work'n, someday masta set me free noooooo http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~baumannd/masta.txt we have our own poetry: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/night.txt heh, well masta has gnuersery rhymes too its amazing we get anything done :) yip we are a multi-talented group we are? yeah, chillywilly can even tie his shoes ;) just don't let him run out of pepsi chillywilly: we've got some warped and deranged people here, you mean ;) ajmitch: yeah and you can actaulyl walk now, amazing isn't it ;) andrewm: something like that ;) dneighbo: didn't you have a tool that showed the relationships between python objects? there's one for emacs you can get it off the python site yip what is name? please dunno, go look shouldn't be hard to find gog ot the emacs resources er, go to ok if you mean this http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/gnuefdoc/ its called happydoc and i want to install it on ash and have it build every 12 hours documentation for forms designer reports common for the web stie bbs Nick change: jcater -> jcNotHere I see you have been busy arguing again this stupid .NET idea dneighbo not really i made i think two comments and then gave up i need to unsubscribe from thier list funny thing is tony quiet whole time then i send mail about it after SEVERAL others have adn he gives the dont talk down speech i tried unsubscribing long ago and it wouldnt let me i asked arun to do it for me and he begged to stay so i just left it my bad, i should have unsubscribed if FSF is really support this i am most disappointed to degrees you can not imagine someone said brad was looking for helpers ofr this i think they meant savannah but if they meant dotGNU i honestly question wether GNUe belongs unders the GNU umbrella as it would be pure idiocy for them to support something that indirectly will shatter all freedoms they have worked for FSF supports what? dneighbo: I am glad to see that you support us so much :P Action: jamest is away: I'm busy Brad is not hooked up with savannah is he/ ? Isn't that loic's job? how can this dotGNU be like free software? users don't realistically have the chance to make improvements for themselves of the software that they use - they have to depend on there being an ASP with those changes I just hope this issue doe snot tear us apart the .GNU license would have to require all code to be GPLed no? I believe in letting people create what they want, but most of the time projects at FD don't go anywhere so I am not even hopeful that it will even get anywhere I'm not hopeful .NET will get anywhere ;-) chillywilly : Brad is Vice President of FSF so he's pretty much hooked up with anythign that has to do with FSF yes, I know that but he never came to the FD list and said anything and he never said anything abouit .NET either I don't believe that shit I personally see these "solutions" as an extended web browser.. someone pulled that out of the arse theor er, their Mr_You : i see them as things that unix has done for 20 years build an app that communicates with any server and its a .NET app chillywilly my problem is that i agree with tony in that anyone wants to a project they support it dneighbo: yup.. and IIRC v4 supposedly has some bandwidth enhancements HOWEVER it is FREE develpers so an application that subverts ones freedom seems od d if i proposed on the list we make a prop product tony would say no way Mr_You: someone justs said something exactly along those lines , that >NET is trying to provide stuff that UNIX has had for years but one that is subtle in its ability to remove freedoms is ok? ill be political here and say i suppose its the same logic that say Its wrong to kill your neighbor, but its ok to kill your fetus. as the crux of that debate is 'viability' i.e. what is life and what is not so at the whole of this .net debate is 'freedom' what is free and what is not very complicated yes i think my hang up and FSF's orginal goal was moral freedom and part of that definition includes accessibility something .net architectures remove even if built with GPL software is the accessibility one has to the software anyhow thats another essay :) but that is the case now with any software? could GNUe be an example? yes and no i mean to run gnue in curses mode you need minimal hardware can run w/o or w/o a network or internet connection etc etc software will probably never be COMPLETELY accessible to all its all about the license of the "product" but in a .net model i make a SWAP i might get easier accessiblity to the END product but in order to do so i give up ALL freedoms there is this cosmic balance you see but any platform that allows any license for "code" pertaining to the use of that platform can be restricted as to be morally free you really need both as freedom w/ something you cant obtain is useless yet something easily obtainable w/o any freedom is no good thte good thing early data has shown that people are NOT adopting ASP's the question is can M$ brute force ASP's on people you know some phpgroupware guys? exactly one of them is in #freedevelopers chillywilly: TWIG oh I thought you were asking he says he talked to some GNUe people a while back Mr_You the answer is 2 years ago w/o a doubt now im not as optimistic i think they have a chance after all they are M$ but its gonna be a bloody battle chillywilly yes i talked to twig pretty extensively well ASPs are either ahead of their time, or a solution looking for a problem.. i think they are neither i think they are not forward thinking and dont think they solve a problem Mr_You: over here (IMHO) they're still waiting for high speed net connetcions to become realistic :) unless of course you call software vendors losing millions in licensing a problem 'high speed' here means 56k ;) i see it as they are doing this to try to regain revenue derek: they call it a problem ;) the reality is that some ASPs have perfectly usable applications in IE. they are losing by software pirating adn by people NOT upgrading ajmitch: well, in wellington you can get cable through saturn, and telecom does high speed net connections in a few places (ihug does high speed satellite downloads, but uploads are still modem-only) I think its a bit of a misleading statement to say companies 'lose' money from piracy derek: well, MS has an alternative (a penalty fee for failure to upgrade on schedule :) the bottom line is any software should be a commodity, and reoccuring charges are based on services andrewm: jetstream (ADSL) is nice & fast, but still expensive unless you go for the 128kbit jetstart (about $65/month) open source/GPL/BSD has proven this nickr: they do - the real question is how much.. (ie, _some_ people wouldn't buy the s/w even if they couldn't pirate it - so they aren't really lost sales, but there are some who'ld buy s/w if they couldn't steal it) developing custom software is a service redhat provides that service ajmitch: I said it was available, not that it was cheap ;) (also, all high speed ISPs have time and/or volume restrictions) bandwidth is slowly becoming a commodity real bandwidth that is Mr_You: slowly being the oeprative word :) andrewm: jetstart thru xtra has no time/data limits, but is slow (128kbit is crap) Action: Mr_You pets his cable modem. Action: Mr_You reaches down the hall, into spare room, into closet, and pets his cable modem. Action: andrewm looks at Mr_You.. hmm, this guy has really stretchy arms (and is strangely affectionate with hardware) :) my wireless provider wants to charge metered bandwidth for next-gen (3G) wireless services :-( competition!! kinda sad, the competition available with wireless, but not with land (here atleast) well time for some dinner start your own 3g access point haha Mr_You: well, telstra/saturn (who, tragically, seem to have a less than stellar reputation in australia) arrive somewhere in new zealand, then suddenly telecom decides that after all, they can offer lower rates in some parts of the country that purely by coincidence match where telstra/saturn arrive :) nickr: you've got the perfect level of insanity to fit in well here ;) Heh Hows that? :) $40 minimum for voice residential service with "single town" location calling is a rip off IMO nickr: you're as mad as a dozen hatters ;) so I don't have a land line Action: nickr laughs maybe 10 or 11 certainly not a dozen nickr: ok, maybe only maybe 10 (base 12) :) haha night be back later bye bye dneighbo (dneighbo@alt2.libertydistribution.com) left irc: BitchX: faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive neilt (neilt@63.219.241.68) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ neilt (neilt@63.219.241.68) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[63.219.241.68] Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy Action: andrewm wants to move to australia ;) it's going to bre _illegal_ for australian banks to honour credit card debts built up by aussie citizens on foreign internet gambling sites. but it will be legal for australian citizens to collect any money they win. (ie, if you win, you get the cash, if you lose, you don't have to pay your debts :) jcNotHere (jack@memphis.ncsmags.com) left irc: benno (benno@holly.sesgroup.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201147.flinthills.com) left irc: Ping timeout for jamest[fh-dialup-201147.flinthills.com] benno: we haven't scared you off? :) not yet :) you'll have to try a *lot* harder jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201147.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. damn, we haven't scared jamest away either :( dnWork (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Nick change: dnWork -> derek i REALLY hope i can get my scanner to work really really really hope i got a famous piece of mail today derek? you're going to scan a cheque for us all to download and print? :) ewhat piece of mail? hrm, cron is really simple actually super simple tho someone screwed it up at work today heh extra * just made a mistake rather no I mean how it works is simple um the mail i want to scan it first ahh yeah BUT i will say someone is threating us with a 150,000 law suit derek? excuse me? oh umm.. oh its so frivolous its humorous damn you scan that shit! if they werent being serious hee scan it it wouldnt be so funny man I seriously need to hire some developers derek: well, that's probably not quite so bad (I don't have that much money in my piggy bank :) but I'm broke too my scanner really sucked when new but with 3 inches of dust on it not banking on it working Action: derek restarting windows derek? you're sick! :) hi benno its so cool to see so many new faces around here lol, scary thing - last time I called tech support at my ISP, they figured I didn't know anything about computers (after all, I had forgotten to try rebooting windows before calling them to see what was broken :P) rofl rumor at work is certain groups are getting embarassed our main web group is now looking at apache and seeing if chilisoft derek: the sad thing is I'm not joking :) may let them use existing active server pages code cool unix is going to lead the way in business of course it is :) sigh i have to reboot to reboot [20:47] MSG541 cute quote: "Bill gates is just a monocle and a persian cat away from being one of the bad guys in a James Bond movie" :) to have a usable windows this is insanity derek: not true! you have to reboot and reboot and reboot and reboot and reboot and reboot in order to have a still unusable windows :) Hrm, should I use XML for my cron? um no use j2ee ;) har nah, I need something trivial to read :) trivial eh? I think i'd try crontab file format then :) Yea but hrm I think I'm gfoing to change the cron semantics slightly have 'jobs' that are sort of abstract scripts, so you specify which job to do at given times guess I'm not seeing the problem? well its sort of a locking mechanism so that I can have only one instance of a particular job executing at a time create a wrapper bash shell that checks for a lock file simple is good not as cool but good Heh, well the whole point is to have a cron with subminute resolution but I'm sort of making a scheduler thats not quite exactly like cron Although it could replace cron :) just have a cron job that runs once a minute which acts like cron XML for your cron? what the? No, I'm not going to use XML :) what are you tring to do? (just curious) but I probably will expose a corba interface so you can schedule jobs via corba and recieve callbacks just write sort of a generic scheduler service well if you need a cron-like function, just use cron ;-) blah Well the real reason I started considering it is so that I could have a cron that does like sub-minute intervals but I might as well make it interesting while I'm at it umm thats a daemon ;-) Hrm? yeah like you were saying, just write a daemon that runs Action: nickr blinks. like the crond Yea thats what I'm thinking its a cron-like daemon with subminute resolution and corba and job abstraction hrmw eahh and it sends email and makes faces at you and a little jumping guys jumps right? plenty of animated graphics and sounds No, but it could talk to the little man that jumps Like the little man could schedule its jumping via the service :) well it talks to the little man via CORBA right? Yea so the little man goes 'hey mr scheduler, poke me every 10 seconds' so the sheduler takes 15 seconds to establish the connection every 10 :) heth local CORBA call revert ot plain ol' function calls with ORBit calls s/ot/to yea, we'll see just how much time things take thats why I'm thinking job abstraction if a function takes 15 seconds, you need a faster computer so you can say 'only one of these jobs should be running at a time' er, fucntion call function jamest: well, if you're running crond on a machine that nasa sent to mars, it'll take a long time to establish a connection :) (assuming they don't lose it entirely :) chillywilly: a faster computer will make your function calls take less time :) doh! i forgot how odd Primus really is they'll execute faster :P Primus is cool chillywilly: I should think so - there's far too many function calls waiting on death row - we need to get them all executed faster :) /ignore andrewm chillywilly: well, if you're going to be like that, I'm leaving ;P you arethe weakest link good bye! :P ;) "This message was encrypted with rot-26 cryptography. Attempting to circumvent this encoding is illegal under the DMCA" :) eh? chillywilly: if you read that encrypted message, you've just committed a crime :) how, nice gee, idiots chillywilly: it's a joke :) what's up with FD they're spamming our LUG saying they're going to replace NET they are? how gay I didn't do it who sent the message/ ? I think that we (the engineers, sysadmins, advocates, end users, etc) are just going to have to do it ourselves. As of approximately this week, dotgnu.org was registered. Freedevelopers.net have been in serious talks on their mailing list about making an infrastructure that'll replace, and be perhaps optionally compatible with, .NET. Linux, BSD, GNU, Samba, WINE, Bochs, plex86, VMware, MacOSX, and non-ia32 hardware continue to slowly thrive in a cooperative, nonthreatening, inoffensive fashion. Major advocates of open source and open standards are ramping up globally. The genie's out of the bottle; be part of the solution! Dan Bethe what a dork spamming is too harsh a word I am against any such thing there's been discussion on the lug list about ms ruling and there's more to mail lol, nothing like a rational reasonable statement of intentions :) and I bet it comes in blue too! Action: jamest decides to abandon GNUe heh what's the last 3 years of my life compared to the l33tn3ss of this massive undertaking chillywilly: go throw some red paint on it, otherwise jamest will abandon us :) Action: chillywilly throws blood on it er, not exactly what I was thinking.... ooooooo, I wonder if I can get a kitchen sink replacement too! it will be a bloody mess by the time we are done hashing this out maybe a blue one hey, I'm playin in a rock band now. ;-) hehe we'll see after a few more practices, but hopefully get some gigs soon you stud you Mr_You: you play an instrument? yeah guitar Action: chillywilly plays guitar too been playing for about 12+ years I guess bound to fail I'm afraid, real musicians just make gay videos an have 40 year olds write the music that apeals to 13 year old girsl haha if you have any talent whatsoever theres no place for you in the music biz thats funny.. cause I got sucked into watchin some of that Popstars show where the girls have a band now hahaha some of the music is not too bad considering maybe you can get on the Real World or something as a bad boy rock guitarist I'm going to start a oompa band yer pretty much right haha I'll pass just don't let me know you actualy play the thing me = them jamest: come on, there's no need to be that offensive :) dude, is fd really out to replace all other projects jamest? you're saying that you're a "real world" producer? :) It'll be techno/oompa jamest: yeah I don't agree with that totally shhh, no one must no my secret identity jamest: but you're happy for people to know of your goat fetish? (at least you've got your priorities straight :) does anyone mind if I change to button object so that it has default height of 1 and default width as the length of the label string? neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.128.167.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ (rather than having to explicity put these in the .gfd) jamest: they have 'issues' /msg andrewm I'm a plant to put together cast for our next real life show - 5 geeks, an OC3, and a pr0n filter, all in a basement with gigabit network free developers benno: that's cool if you do it in the backend, not in the UIdriver benno: do they not already default? i thougth the height of 1 defaulted jamest: sounds good to me! it should take them 5 minutes to disable the pr0n filter, and hack into the monitoring system to hide anything they don't want you to see or I can fix real quick if you like :) they don't default at the moment on the width = string hey are both required i woudl rather see something that says autosize=true and if autosize is true it resizes button derek: whY? to content width as not too many people want button smaller than the text jamest: it makes more sense for designer one :) and two it makes it so you can redraw button on fly benno: I want a decent automatic layout system, so the forms program can create an appropriate display for the system being used :) jamest: i dont think anyone wants button smaller than text that would be ideal.. but i know plenty that want it LARGER chillywilly: I thought all the FD people were Free Software types if you want it larger you can still explicity put in the width they are chillywilly: that guy sounded rather /soft/.. open standards, open software what guy? errr opensource in that paste up there oh I dunno nickr: they dont know what the hell they are from thier list i classify them as confused nickr: doesn't matter what group of people you get - they'll never all agree on a definition of the word "free" much less whether any given thing matches any given definition, or which definition is best :) has anyone seen a check? they say they pay everyone the logistics of that have got to be a bitch when you take the currencies, tax laws, etc, etc, into account i like my free in blue Action: andrewm locks jamest in a room with someone who likes his free in orange :) argh you beat me to my joke i feel for that poor soul jamest: I know.. obviously I must hate free orange :) Action: nickr sticks to his plaid freedom. jamest they cant organize two tooth picks in a parallel line at this point with having issues i dont think checks are high on the list btw: reminds me of old gnue lists so when i pick on them we were same way at one point andrewm: hey andrewm: your a short timer now, just a few more hours? derek: we weren't claiming to replace all free projects either which is basically what I get from this to claim to replace samba!?!?!? wtf for? cause they are studs jamest: that post is stupid why else I know I was once at that point with myself you can even say so Then I beat myself into submission and here we are they are going to be the biggest thing since um hey! the last biggest thing toes floss! sorry chillywilly you;re talking about our organization here i am so glad to hear someone else let loose on this as i was getting a complex sorry chillywilly, you're cool that wasn't supposed to leak out into the stratosphere I just found the post offensive to a certain degree i think what you and arun want out of Free Developers is great and noble those are bold statements coming form a misinformed person imho what tony and others want are well hey they were reaplceing linux too! i will stay quiet in a logged channel ooooo, and the GNU project which supports them Tony is not what you think he is and hardware! Action: jamest is definatly quitting GNUe an infrastructure that'll replace, and be perhaps optionally compatible with, .NET. Linux, BSD, GNU, Samba, WINE, Bochs, plex86, VMware, MacOSX, and non-ia32 hardware no one said that that's is not "official" press dude, it's the mail we got vms and os-390 it's bullshit ok, chillywilly, i get the point sorry i know where you're comming from I'm just having too much fun with it neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.128.167.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) left irc: later all, this is too serious for me kinda like the time a konsultant explained to a dude I was helping that pulling a set of matching records from a db required 1000s of sql statments well, I am not gonna sit by and be ridiculed because some anonymous marketing person :P er, because of what they said I'm not after you chillywilly Action: andrewm looks very confused by chillywilly.. I thought you knew jamest was sadistic? :) think of this as fun at Mr. Bethe's expense :) but I'll stop, so as not to offend no see I am also pissed because the whole idea is lame and I wish it would go away there's so much more important thing that need to be done int he name of GNU ;) you can make fun of him I don't care sorta amusing anyway byut now to say oh this is what we are doing is justa friggin lie I'll prbably plug GNUe in there anyway we're no .NET replacement yes gnue ra ra ra GNUe is *very* important but we're kinda like that rash you get in gym class and why we're all here we don't go away lol yes a three year rash yip that lately has been quite inflamed Action: benno is confused as to what started this hope no one calls the doctor and the fugal cream isn't helping much either FD politics benno: started what? crack smoking people er, and crack smoking people gnue? freaks with a dream hey, can i put out some misleading press about GNUe now? this thread? freaks on a KSU LUG mailing list :) then the FD people can make fun of me yeah this conversation well....... I already do that anyway nickr :P we'd have to probably redirect the death sats to your region GNUe reverses aging! great at parties! a healthy snack that promotes weightloss! 9 out of 10 dentists prefer its minty-fresh afterburn GNUe -- the freshmaker GNUe. Like you've got anything better to do. lol GNUe can stop time AND beat up your childhood bully FD - sadly, we don't have anything better to do GNUe grew my hair back! Action: benno writes down slogans to bombard ppl at SLUG meeting tonight Action: Mr_You makes note he has always had plenty of hair ;-) watch out man cause out .GNU platform is gonna rock your world #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ instead of GNU/stuff we now have GNUe/stuff Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by jamest!jamest@fh-dialup-201147.flinthills.com: GNUe. Like you've got anything better to do. it's a brave.GNU.World such abuse of power :) GNUe/Linux .. the taste of the new generation "GNUe changed my life!!!!" (I hope ;-) GNUe gave me herpies and my wife cheeted on me with it hehe I lost 375lbs on the old pizza and GNUe diet there's nothing like last minute feature requests ;) (well, ok, I've been given 2.5hrs to implement, test, and document this new keyword in GCD files ;) ("ORDER BY fieldname DESC;" will mean queries on that class will default to descending order, maybe, if I get it done before I leave :) GNUe saved me from a life of prostitution no GNUe and beer make homer go something go crazy? DON'T MIND IF I DO!!!!!?!?!! ah, you biffed that one in the same way my mom always does BLAH BLIH BLUHAH ! GNUe. No, the church doesn't known about us. still funny though biffed? your mom? heh GNUe, eliminates the tough odor so you don't have to! make homer something something not chillywilly has it down nod yeah I thought so make homer go something Action: Mr_You wasn't sure. is there a function in gnuef similar to runform, that will replace the current form instead of loading a new window? (and if not, should there be?) no and maybe GNUe, fightin crime heh GNUe, feedin the people GNUe, making peace in the middle east GNUe, not for human consumption GNUe, it's what's for dinner Wheres the GNUe? jamest: would there be any major objection to me implementing such a thing? Got GNUe? GNUe happens jamest: how will multiple screens be possible? is that considered a future feature? Tiny GNUes working for you, twenty four hours a day Action: benno prefers single window for this kind of app benno: you talking about MDI? jamest: no definately not benno i dont think its a good idea personally jamest: i'm more tallking so I can set up a page with buttons on it, and then clicking on that will take me to that function as you can have a form with multiple pages ah simple top level menu ahh benno: i woudl do via menus or depending on how many forms Forms can do that now? you could use tabs yes forms has multi page support yeah tabs would work equally well and tabnotebook support benno benno that funtionality exists today the UI system is getting an overhaul but blame jamest if its broken :) set the
and give each then each page becomes a tab left, right, bottom, top are all supported ahh ok.. benno: believe it or not we have some code :) jamest: doesnt it feel good but that is per page yeah? I couldn't do something to have seperate forms? being able to say "we ahve that already" when someone asks :) benno: not with tabs nt with tavs I'm open to the new functoin you could create form with buttons or other widgets i suppose it wouldnt hurt I assume you'd add it to the trigger namespace but im not hot on it ok, what is the prefered way to change between forms then? as its not how other windowing systems work but its probably how curses will have to work Mr_You (car@vpshost2.vitalserver.com) left irc: Leaving between forms? i thought you were closing the old one? well working on customer form and want to change to invoice form or something like that benno we dont have way to do that ye jcNotHere (jack@memphis.ncsmags.com) joined #gnuenterprise. t we plan on making a framework Nick change: jcNotHere -> jcater that has menu/toolbar etc you can customize to do that for now each form is self contained for mean time you could create one form that has buttons of all your forms whats the portal software that runs on gnue for all your forms that is and then when you click on it it launches that form that is what I was doing currently it would be kind of like the M$ office hot bar nickr: phpnuke its not what we want long term hey jcater we want that application wrapper hi that lets you build navigation for multiple forms but we arent there just yet a customised toolbar for navigation? yes i see it as menu toolbar benno: planned bascially a 'container' for forms and how packages are represented etc somewhat hard to explain but i think its what you are asking for i get the idea i think why does the form designer say 'moo'? soudns like you are using it can you give us your impression thus far? we are dying for feedback as jamest/jcater get sick of my feedback as its always looks good, so now get back to work I'm just looking at screenshots actually Action: benno likes the gnuef nickr: any word from the grand poobahs on GNUe Docustore ;) derek: not yet, I didn't get a chance to talk to the guy I have to talk to benno: thank you, thank you, thank you benno: where are you located? it so much nicer than derek's canned responce of "You guys almost managed to not quite suck as much as you sucked before" Action: benno is in Sydney, Australia benno: I hope he's paying you well :) lol well the gnuef code is nice and clean so I dont' have much trouble changing the bits I don't like :) ummmm benno: go take a look at this (it's, um, quite amusing :) http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/20045.html guys, someone recode gnuef when I wasn't looking other than jcater of course heh benno? I hope the therapy goes well :) they guy that is for the .GNU thing is an open source guy and nothing more well remember I am a uni student and look at poor attempts at C code when tutoring and stuff so lots of stuff looks good in comparison damn, he actually has a point, there :) whats gnuef? gnue forms client nickr: it's a frightening mess of code that has had unnatural relationships that you don't want to know about :) What does it do? oh dear, man senator alston is a fsckwit the GUI the alternative explanation is that it's GNUE Forms, but that's pretty much the same ;) attracts mad goats you guys are s helpful it takes an xml ui def file :P and creates a UI out of it chillywilly: we try :) thing is that is one of the saner moves he has made in the last 4 years of office w/ the old designer program you can have a complete data-aware app in < 10 min chillywilly: besides, do you really think I'ld miss an opportunity to hassle jamest about his code? ;) add the new designer and you can make it look good :) hrm, I could use some mad goats and add triggers and stuff to the code nickr: trust me, you don it should run on windows, unix 't want to go there :) back to the good old days of VB :) as well as a curses more mode but windows and curses are currently broken hrm some insane plans for the future are an html UI all from same gfd file the code is crazy, though, you're saying? html ui will be cool and a phone interface via bayonne XSLT should be able to do that really nicely (which could possibly kick some serious, um, stuff) Whoa whoa whoa you could use XSLT to create a GLADE file muah Action: nickr shivers ooh sweet sweet evil glade! it's not that kind of UI it's odd the original dude that started it all has issues I think and the people that followed were no better what do you mean 'not that kind of UI'? ajbusy (ajmitch@p23-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajbusy[p23-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz] free software lovin, crack smoking, hippie communists "issues" ? gimp has issues man cant open 3mb image worth crap it describes the function of the UI more than the widget ah, you guys don't like the dialog all over the place on pIII 500mhz 128mb RAM would gnuef reading a conf file on start up which lists a bunch of forms and create a toolbar based on this be the way togo? and suggests a type of widget but the UIdriver can interpret as it sees fit benno: that might be interesting reminds me of the original goal of html if you put in gnue.conf (and we know where that went :) you could pull that off nicely as gnue.conf has 3 files the system gnue.conf, a "locked" gnue.conf, and user gnue.conf It just seemed like a simple, if evil way to do things glade is very nice benno: I'm kinda stubborn on the gfd format but these guys wear me down :) i swore tabs wouldn't make it in when I started hmmmm or at least not as an option i still want the framework eventually as i see it for how we will handle packaging yes framework nice in a large degree and some process based security can go there anyhoe yeah well if it could read a list of installed pacakges from somewhere i have a lot ot discuss in SF man, the forms designer page takes like three years to load that would be the ideal thing infact im debating on bringing my white board jamest / jcater you guys like to use whiteboards or no? derek: depends on who's using it derek: by process based security do you mean at the client end? bring blue markers benno, yes and no i see almost everything happening via geas objects and very little client side code ok good but from laymans term so the security is still on the server really it woudl define what the client sees so the processing would be on server but the result woudl be on client yep but the client sees a restricted view depending on what they are allowed todo in gimp how can i get an image back i told it to convert it left virtual desktop and came back its gone if i try to close gimp it says i have un saved files Its gone forever i found it :) ow got scanner to work will post my lovely mail here quick :) its so great you all will die am i still connected or is all this image processing killing my irc still connected whew anyone know how to use gimp? anyone know the name of package w/ dos2unix in it? i need to know how to rotate a an image 180 degrees jamest for what? grab the monitor w/ left and right hands twist hands so left hand ends up or right side emacs will strip the evil ^M for you roflmao i need to add the evil ^M unix2dos it does taht too is it not samba? nope i dont think so nope verified then me not know image->transforms->rotate->180 degrees sigh so intuitive print it out, rotate it 180, rescan it ok ready i take it back, some of this code is a real mess :P good idea jcater benno: yes, yes it is nuh, uh it it's purdy I think I'm fully qualified to say it's pure crap in parts http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/front.jpg http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/back.jpg please laugh as hard as i did some of the slogans are truly wonderous No such thing as a free lunch. Dont get stuck with the bill. Ahahahaha Check your software licenses today what i love they want you to pay them to help you audit is basically they say you are STEALING we are gonna nail you you bastard and they also say that you should be pananoid of ex employees but then politely ask you to please buy more of thier software hmmm, didn't the natzi's encourage neighbors to turn in people that weren't toeing the line all i can say is this is TRULY a classic piece of mail roflmao derek: back off on the release demands buddy, or I'm calling the BSA to distract you for a while its part YOU ARE SCREWED and part marketing only microsoft could do that like the front cover looks like a marketing slick all the way jamest: rofl i had to scan it so you could see it in full glory as no way in text i could convey how ludicrous it is lol, um, er, ok.. derek: 50% of the people in your state have been in the sun too long. 25% don't call their mothers enough. And that one dude in maricopa(sp?) county MIS dept just isn't right. we're only telling you this cause we care hahaha jamest: there's only one problem - derek can show them his license to use free software :) andrewm: im a pirate oh speaking of that Arrr! i promised you jamest to explain my oddness derek: got your eyepatch and pet parrot? :) um yues arr me maties, these be fine warez from the orient http://www.carefree.com/swn/ will explain things i promis promis promise damn jamest you are rubbing off :) derek? in public? :) All right neighbors. WTF are you doing with a pirated copy of MS Bob on every machine you own. That's our intellectual property. Er, well. It's our property anyway. ajbusy (ajmitch@p6-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. er, good question - who is this "steve" chap, derek? :) andrewm: steve is my father and yes that image is really him in a pirate outfit his wench kay is my mother ;) VB.....you poor child lol, I see, so you're the son of a pirate? :) jamest: he hates MS really he rather likes sun and ibm though jamest: it is intellectual property! earthworms have minds, too (even if they're teeny tiny minds :) he works on solaris mostly and mainframe he thought he was gonna like VB then he had to use on a project in flordia derek: well, it could be worse, right? it would be sad if you had to disown him for a microsoft addiction :) ever since then he has loathed M$ jcater: you here? go figure :) jamest: occasionally I have a workarround for windows it's fugly what? install another os? setup.py jcater: rofl import os ah, nevermindn it's too easy anyway the setup.cfg makes win install puke so we detect os, and create setup.cfg from within setup.py before it calls setup() um then we disown it and say masta created this script that defeats the purpose of having a setup.cfg or we rename it jaemst: can you try using setup.in py2exe instead? derek: don't go there :) so we can build .exes on linux for windows it needs a good setup.py derek: the issue is with the windows installer it's um, pure crap jamest: this woudl CIRCUMVENT that as you would make exe on linux no? or do you ahve to run py2exe on windows (probably) File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/distutils/command/bdist_wininst.py", line 122, in run raise DistutilsInternalError \ distutils.errors.DistutilsInternalError: 'scripts' not included in install_lib is the result of trying to build installer on unix sigh Action: nickr idly wonders what 'microsoft's open licensing program' is that promises to save you up to 20% py2exe never has worked cause we had some custom crap in setup.py have you all looked at it at all? yes not obvious fixes? it makes nice grunting sounds while flipping me off I'm working now to remove that stuff jamest: better than a whistling sound to try again farting sounds wt heck, I'm up for a good laugh I'll run py2eve thru it again lah I'm bored. bbs jcater (jack@memphis.ncsmags.com) left irc: rebooting does anyone know where in CVS neilt put his GCD docs? I need to update them, but can't find them :P bbs? be back soon can I take this as meaning noone reads the docs anyway? :) i don tknow let me loock look andrewm: they are on his web page that's all i knwo jamest: er, not in CVS? hmm, oops, I guess I need to email him before I leave ;) gnue/docbook/GNUeModuleGuide/chapters/ has a businessobjects.sgml file that has some stuff jcater (jack@memphis.ncsmags.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hey, wow! docs! :) docs! where? jcater: don't worry, I'm sure the goats will eat them :) hey my daughter just lost another tooth she wants to know if any of you know the toothfairies email address refunds@irs.gov she is upset that i dont know derek: that's a damn good question :) Action: derek is checking google roflmao seems tooth fairy lives in New Zealand email the Tooth Fairy A New Zealand dental site from first hit on google wow, that's handy to know.. http://www.toothfairy.org those domain squatters hey on a setup what if we move things like gfclient to a scripts dir and things like dependency checks to a file/dir and setup kinda like the parser config huh? you lost me after the scripts dir ah lets say a dependencies.py then when setup.py is run (subclassed from gnue-common/gsetup) it imports that file, reads a record strucure something like parser does now {dependency: (url, required)} Gsetup would deal w/ things like checking gnue.conf, dep checking, os issues, etc, etc am I still not making any sence? jamest: can I answer that? please? :) sure you're leaving so why not be nice to you you? making sense? I must have missed that :) also, gsetup would massage things to where they'd work w/ a std distutils.setup() instead of custom ones as I keep getting tripped up in unix/windows differences um it sounds good in theory worth a try ok sounds like a project for friday :) l8r [23:49] MSG541negotive (negotive@c966965-a.salem1.or.home.com) joined #gnuenterprise. is there a version of tar and gzip for windows ? jamest: are you running away? negotive: yaeh probably but winzip can handle .tar.gz benno : I think there should be a list or something of gnu software that has been ported cygnus tools probably have ports though benno : I know, but I hate that register message negotive: winzip handles .tgz files (or .tar.gz files if you change the extension to .tgz) cygnus is first stop for unix tools on windoze yeah, what he said :P and there is a list somewhere, but I don't know where emacs and vim defiantely have, freeciv has :), most shells have actually maybe not vim, defiantely emacs though I have vim and NTEmacs too bad I don't know all of the commands for emacs, so it just looks pretty :) negotive: that's ok, you have to be psychotically deranged to learn all the emacs commands :) hehe, that is why I use vim, it only took me half an hour to learn them all you only need a reall subset of command to do useful stuff though :-) benno: well, he's using windows, anyway, so his best option is to use notepad no way I have vim :) notepad is too complicated for me :-D negotive: well, get Word, then - that's easy to use, powerful, and fast :) so don't make fun of me, I have a good reason to use windows, I do have linux installed on the hd somewhere er, someone please help me? I've lost my tin foil hat again :( hehe, getting a bad reception on the tv now ? negotive: well, actually, I use windows at home, too (but windows jokes are more or less traditional around here :) hehe negotive: tin foil hats are protection against the orbital mind control lasers :) lasers?