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<derek> cw-ZzZz: you really asleep
<cw-ZzZz> er, as soon as I get through my email
<cw-ZzZz> :P
<cw-ZzZz> night masta
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<derek> cw-ZzZz: how was the protest?
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<leafpipeline> hi waht do you guys talk about here?
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<reinhard> hello Zhang_Wu_Xiang
<reinhard> any questions I can answer for you?
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<derek> exit
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<jcater> no
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<ra3vat> hello all
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<dneighbo> hey chillywilly 
<dneighbo> how was the protest?
Action: chillywilly didn't makw it to it they gave me shitty directions
<jcAway> has anyone here ever used JFS
<jcAway> journalling file system?
<chillywilly> wasted all that gas for nothing
<chillywilly> ah well
<chillywilly> I should've looked at the mapquest directions and seen if they made sense conpared to the directions they gave me but I didn't and I didn't print them either
<chillywilly> everyont should sign this: http://www.dibona.com/dmca/index.shtml
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<neilt> chillywilly: what protest?
<chillywilly> http://www.boycottadobe.com...the protest for freeing dmitry sklyarov and against the DMCA
<jcAway> chillywilly: that's such a sad (read: pathetic) use of copyright law
<neilt> hold on, let me look
<chillywilly> sign the petition is you wanrt
<chillywilly> er, if you want
<chillywilly> neilt: there was one in downtown Chicago yesterday that I was trying to get to
<neilt> what is the issue
<neilt> i could not find it on the web site
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> go tot the petition URL then
<chillywilly>  http://www.dibona.com/dmca/index.shtml
<chillywilly> should be a link offof the eff site too
<chillywilly> http://www.eff.org
<dneighbo> http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/
<dneighbo> neilt basically sklyarov works for russian company and is russian national
<dneighbo> where no DCMA exists
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<dneighbo> his corporation deals with adobe encryption and has a tool that breaks it
<dneighbo> he was giving a talk in las vegas
<dneighbo> on teh weakness in the encryption
<dneighbo> and how adobe lies about its capabilites
<neilt> that sucks, i cant believe that I agree with chillywilly
<dneighbo> and that corporations CAN NOT depend on it to secure documents
<neilt> but i do,
<dneighbo> adobe got the FBI to arrest him during hte presentation
<dneighbo> and throw him in jail
<dneighbo> so this case is US vs Sklyarov
<dneighbo> not Adobe vs Sklyarov
<dneighbo> VERY scary stuff
<chillywilly> the DMCA is horrible and unconstitutional imho
<chillywilly> code of free speech
<chillywilly> s/of/is
<dneighbo> basically corporations can use Federal Government to enforce thier unfair business practices
<dneighbo> all i can think of is
<dneighbo> can you imagine if an american coder went to russia
<dneighbo> and the KGB slammed him to ground and hauled him off
<dneighbo> in mid presentation?
<dneighbo> the outcry americans would have?
<chillywilly> what do they need copy protection for? That's the whole point of copyright anyway
<chillywilly> plus
<dneighbo> yet in our own country we do this and most dont even know its happening :(
<chillywilly> under fair use you should be able to make a bacxkup
<chillywilly> whihc DMCA does not allow
<chillywilly> it puts too much power into the hands of the publishers and media ppl....I think America is in a very sad state. It seems that he who has the money makes the laws and to hell with the people. What fucking kind of democracy is this
<neilt> We do agree that Adobe should have the right to go after the company in russia if they sell the software, right
<chillywilly> no, Adobe should use real encryption
<neilt> but not individuals or people that write about the software
<dneighbo> neilt i agree with that
<chillywilly> how the fuck are they gonna charge $3,000 for something they claim is "secure" and come to find out it is ROT-13
<dneighbo> chillywilly that doesnt matter
<chillywilly> yes
<neilt> that is Adobe's choice
<chillywilly> this is a corporate matter
<chillywilly> I agree
<neilt> and yes they should use real software
<chillywilly> if anyone is to be sued it is the corporation not poor Dmitry
<neilt> but if someobdy breaks it and writes about it, they should not have a liability
<chillywilly> er, well they be punished that is
<chillywilly> yeah, but pointing out security flaws should not be a crime
<chillywilly> under DMCA it is...I don't see how it is constitutional
<neilt> chillywilly: right
<neilt> pointing out security flaws should not be a crime
<chillywilly> in Russia
<neilt> selling software that breaks a copyright should be
<chillywilly> it is law that you must be able to make a backup
<chillywilly> thus
<chillywilly> they wrote the software
<neilt> chillywilly: that was wrong
<neilt> they should have told Adobe you cant sell or import your software into Russia
<chillywilly> well the guy got arrested for something he did in Russia
<neilt> he should not have been touched, the issues was against his company, not him personally
<neilt> unless he broke the local law (in russia)
<neilt> chillywilly: on another subject
<neilt> -
<neilt> how are the methods rewrite going for geas?
<chillywilly> clearly it is an injustice...however I don't like the DMCA either
<chillywilly> haven't wprked on it
<neilt> does have not worked on it = not going to work on it
<neilt> or is it still planned
<chillywilly> still planned of course
<neilt> cool, any idea of time frame, as derek the taskmaster was trying to get a fell for 1.0 geas
<neilt> s/fell/feel
<chillywilly> I suppose I should go with what I have and just starting writing the code
<chillywilly> I couls get it done withina  week of coding I think...and that gives me extra time
<chillywilly> so could be sooner
<chillywilly> just need to start coding
<ra3vat> dneighbo: what is your next reply to mape's guys? Is there anything for further discuss?
<chillywilly> oh shit...um I need to go somewhere...I'll be back in an hour
<neilt> you have my permission to buy some extra coke and go at it :)
<chillywilly> ok  :P
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<ra3vat> bbl
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<Mr_You> Janes Addiction is doing another tour!
<dneighbo> um is that good or bad?
<dneighbo> perry farrel is well, strange.. :)
<dneighbo> but janes addiction did make some decent tunes
<Mr_You> yeah
<dneighbo> any python studs here?
<Mr_You> pfftt..
<Mr_You> ;-)
<jcAway> dneighbo: maybe
<dneighbo> ok tried explaining in python group
<dneighbo> not doing well
<dneighbo> if i have
<dneighbo> if (somevar!="") and (someothervar !="")
<dneighbo> buy i meant
<dneighbo> if not (somevar="") and (someothervar="")
<dneighbo> how do i write that?
<jcAway> if not (somevar == "" and someothervar ==""):
<dneighbo> cool
<dneighbo> will try
<dneighbo> um is there way with sort to sort on one column then the next?
<dneighbo> im having some sort weirdness :(
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<dneighbo> ok got weirdness figured out
<Mr_You> caffeine and boredom make Mr_You something something
<jcAway> dneighbo: sort in python? unix sort command?
<jcAway> oh, just saw your <dneighbo> ok got weirdness figured out
<dneighbo> sort in unix
<dneighbo> but just had to understand the params better :)
<dneighbo> teach me to listen to some nutty austrian free software zealot :)
<ra3vat> <ra3vat> dneighbo: what is your next reply to mape's guys? Is there anything for further discuss?
<dneighbo> ra3vat hey your back, sorry for not responding earlier
<dneighbo> um i guess i will try to contact developer directly
<dneighbo> i fear they may not speak english very well if at all
<dneighbo> i dont know Czech so im at a disadvantage :)
Action: dneighbo assumes czech's have own language?  maybe not
<dneighbo> perhaps as a user you could ask thier main list if they ahve looked at gnue at all?
<ra3vat> czech has some similarities with russian 
<ra3vat> but easy to use english
<dneighbo> do you ahve gnue.org email
<dneighbo> ie ra3vat@gnue.org
<ra3vat> not sure, i'm continue to disturb fsf for my paper work 
<dneighbo> Zak,
<dneighbo> I sent this to the devel list, but realized it seems about dead.  Didnt
<dneighbo> know if you got it or not.
<dneighbo> Derek
<dneighbo> is what i am going to send him
<dneighbo> with my last email attached?
<dneighbo> should i add more?
<dneighbo> I ran into MAPE from a Newsforge article today.  I couldnt help but notice
<dneighbo> some distinct similarities to one of GNU Enterprise's tools "Forms".
<dneighbo> I think it might be worth discussing trying to combine efforts instead of
<dneighbo> duplicate them.  You can see GNU Enterprise Forms at
<dneighbo> http://www.gnuenterprise.org.
<dneighbo> Let me know what you think.
<dneighbo> Derek Neighbors
<dneighbo> is the original mail i sent
<ra3vat> but someone respond to your message
<dneighbo> did someone?
<dneighbo> im not on the list :)
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<ra3vat> sure
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<dneighbo> so i didnt get anythign back 
<Me2000> # Appears as ANNA.
<dneighbo> hi me
<Me2000> hello dneighbo
<Me2000> you posted this nice article about Small Enterprises Fear Being Left Out In IT Cold
<Me2000> but the link is broken :-(
<dneighbo> i suppose i did :)
<dneighbo> ok let me try to fix it
<Me2000> the browser is asking me for a username and password
<ra3vat> dneighbo: http://mape.jcu.cz/pipermail/mape-devel/2001-July.txt
<dneighbo> argh... its misbehaving Computer Weekly
<dneighbo> ra3vat : yip see that now, i think he is wrong and will expound on it :)
<dneighbo> just subscribed to the list :)
<dneighbo> will be sending mail after look at this for me2000
<Me2000> i also have another problem, i got thousands of errors during the make-process
<Me2000> for example /root/GEAS/geas-0.0.5/src/methods/methods.c:173: undefined reference to `CORBA_exception_free'
<Me2000> what can i do?
<Me2000> btw i use ORBit 0.5.8
<dneighbo> is geas-0.0.5 latest?
<dneighbo> or is 0.0.6 sitting out there
<Me2000> i used 0.0.5
<dneighbo> configure woudl bomb if it couldnt find a current enough version of ORBit (or at least it used to)
<Me2000> i use ORBit 0.5.8
<Me2000> have you any idea?
<Me2000> or should i use ORBit 0.5.6
<reinhard> Me2000: i use ORBit 0.5.8, too
<reinhard> and it works for me
<reinhard> sorry was watching tv
<reinhard> bad coder no donut ;)
<Me2000> i'm using RH 7.0
<reinhard> Me2000: is it possible that you have 2 different versions of orbit installed?
<reinhard> e.g. one in /usr and one in /usr/local
<dneighbo> AH
<dneighbo> RH 7.0 could be partial to blame here
<dneighbo> wasnt it the evil version of GCC?
<Me2000> i look for it
<Me2000> gcc ver. 2.96
<Me2000> 20000731
<Me2000> is an evil in there?
<dneighbo> Me2000 can you try that link for that article now?
<Me2000> ok
<Me2000> it's working
<dneighbo> and tell me if you hit "Fear drives small business IT"
<Me2000> thank you
<Me2000> yes of course
<dneighbo> no thank you :)
<reinhard> Me2000: can you check if you have more than one libORBit.so on your system?
<Me2000> ok
<Me2000> you are right, there are two versions.
<reinhard> so you should remove the "wrong" version if possible
<Me2000> ok
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<Me2000> perhaps i was to lazy to read the messages during the config-run
<reinhard> no
<reinhard> it's not sure that config recognizes it when you have 2 versions of orbit installed
<Me2000> it told me that the corbst-test-prog did not work
<reinhard> uh
<reinhard> and configure didn't stop there?
<Me2000> no
<Me2000> that's not so good
<reinhard> agree
<Me2000> gnome uses orbit
<reinhard> yes a lot :)
<reinhard> in fact orbit _comes_ from the gnome project
<Me2000> oh
<Me2000> gnome will never work again like it did :-(
<reinhard> did you remove the version of orbit that belonged to gnome?
<Me2000> yes
<reinhard> hmmmm
<reinhard> reinstall it
<reinhard> i suppose it's the package that is on your cd
<reinhard> you have gnome from redhat cd or ximian gnome?
<Me2000> i will do this after the geas comp. works
<reinhard> ok
<Me2000> i think it was from the web
<reinhard> i always forget that others can actually work without gnome
<reinhard> i couldn't :)
<reinhard> i have newest ximian gnome and it has orbit 0.5.8 with it
<Me2000> i installed gnome some months ago
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<Me2000> another make ... and many lines like: /root/GEAS/geas-0.0.5/src/objectstore/mysql.c:144: undefined reference to `mysql_init'
<reinhard> ok you have mysql installed?
<Me2000> yes
<Me2000> and also these developer, header packages
<Me2000> but the ORBit errors disappeared :-)
<reinhard> just a sec
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<reinhard> Me2000: you have /usr/lib/mysql/mysqlclient.a ?
<reinhard> or is it /usr/lib/mysqlclient.a for you?
<Me2000> there is a libmysqlclient.a
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<Me2000> in /usr/lib/mysql
<reinhard> ok
<Me2000> should i make a link anywhere
<reinhard> no that's ok
<reinhard> please look at the command line of the last gcc command
<stuq> stuq is showing his kids what irc looks like
<Me2000> gcc -g -O2 -o geas-server geas-skels.o geas-common.o geas-stubs.o geas-server.o geas-skeleton.o factory.o connection.o admin.o query.o objectlist.o dataobject.o exceptions.o transaction.o collectiondata.o security.o schema.o -rdynamic  -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libgmodule.so -ldl -L/usr/lib/mysql /usr/lib/mysql/libmysqlclient.a -lz -lcrypt -L/usr/local/l
<Me2000> ib /usr/local/lib/libORBit.so /usr/local/lib/libIIOP.so /usr/local/lib/libORBitutil.so /usr/lib/libglib.so -lnsl -lm ../src/config/libconfig.a ../src/oql/liboql.a ../src/objectcache/libobjectcache.a ../src/objectstore/libobjectstore.a ../src/methods/libmethods.a ../src/datamonitor/libdatamonitor.a -luuid ../lib/classdefs/libclassdefs.a -Wl,--rpath
<Me2000> -Wl,/usr/local/lib
<Me2000> that's it
<Mr_You> stuq: oh no!!
<Mr_You> ;-)
<reinhard> Me2000: thanks
<Me2000> thank you :-)
<reinhard> Me2000: just a minute
<Me2000> there is a lib missing in /usr/lib/mysql/libmysqlclient.a, isn't it.
<reinhard> actually this part should read
<reinhard> -L/usr/lib/mysql -lmysqlclient
<reinhard> which version of geas you are trying to compile?
<Me2000> 0.0.5
<Me2000> the tar-package
<reinhard> yeah that should work actually
<reinhard> ok maybe libtool changes that
<reinhard> Me2000: there is a lib missing?
<Me2000> which one do you mean?
<reinhard> <Me2000> there is a lib missing in /usr/lib/mysql/libmysqlclient.a, isn't it.
<reinhard> is what you wrote
<reinhard> i didn't understand that
<dneighbo> ra3vat : which country are you from?
<dneighbo> us dumb americans cant recall such things :)
<Me2000> it's my fault
<Mr_You> romania!??
<dneighbo> Mr_You i dont think so
<Me2000> that makes no sense.
<reinhard> ah ok
<Me2000> sorry
<ra3vat> dneighbo: russia as you know
<reinhard> nm /usr/lib/mysql/libmysqlclient.a | grep mysql_init
<dneighbo> not ukraine?
<Me2000> 00002d74 T mysql_init
<reinhard> hmmmm
<ra3vat> dneighbo: i'm that close to Moscow that ukraine never was :)
<Me2000> the first line of that make error is: ../src/objectstore/libobjectstore.a(mysql.o): In function `MySQL_connect':
<reinhard> this is weird
<Me2000> i think so too
<Me2000> perhaps i should use postgres
<reinhard> i fear i can't help further here
<reinhard> maybe tomorrow
<reinhard> i must leave now, it's late here
<reinhard> sorry :(
<Me2000> thank you
<reinhard> maybe someone else has a rh system too
<Me2000> bye
<reinhard> i have suse and don't have that problem
<reinhard> bye
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<dneighbo> Me2000 i think i had same issues with mysql :)
<dneighbo> i use postgres
<dneighbo> so i just moved to --without-mysql
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> to go around
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<ra3vat> anyone know where is our andrewm?
<ajmitch> no longer hacking geas, iirc
<dneighbo> he is gone :(
<dneighbo> he was being paid to work on geas by treshna
<dneighbo> he left treshna
<dneighbo> and so no longer works on geas
<dneighbo> you can email him at andrewm@gnue.org
<dneighbo> and he will most likely respond
<ra3vat>  ajmitch: missed him and you ? :)
<ajmitch> ra3vat: eh?
<ra3vat> :)
<dneighbo> ra3vat : so you are actually in russia?
<dneighbo> a coworker here was interested
<dneighbo> as he thinks its pretty cool developers from across globe collaborate
<ra3vat> yes in russia
<ra3vat> I have some friend from Tulsa, OK who will come to Russia his tenth time in August. If you have some questions he may be can answer better  
<ra3vat> than me
<dneighbo> you answer just fine
<dneighbo> hopefully we will hear back from the MAPE developers
<dneighbo> i assume nothing will happen :(
<dneighbo> as im sure he wont want to leave his hard work to join us
<dneighbo> and we (appear) to be much further along, with more develoeprs and momentum so makes little sense for us to ditch what we are doing
<ra3vat> i liked what you wrote need it to keep arguing for some russian project that did not do much for now but want to go own way long
<ra3vat> wrote a message to jamest about it
<dneighbo> they are using mape currently?
<dneighbo> this russian project?
<dneighbo> im not sure i understand completely
<ra3vat> no, they are about to choose uiml
<dneighbo> what is uiml?
<dneighbo> they should choose GNUe :)
<ra3vat> uiml.org
<ra3vat> it this stage they want own geas, forms and all other component
<ra3vat> s/it/at
<dneighbo> i saw uiml, its not free 
<dneighbo> like GPL free and relies on java
<dneighbo> but interesting concepts. :)
<dneighbo> gnue is better :)
<ra3vat> agreed :)
<dneighbo> its time for me to write some articles
<dneighbo> on introduction of GNUe
<ra3vat> i need an responce from jamest and you on my message
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<dneighbo> i havent gotten a message from you
<dneighbo> please send it to me and i will respond
<dneighbo> hi neilt 
<Me2000> hello again
<dneighbo> hello
<Me2000> is geas 0.0.5 supporting postgresql
<dneighbo> yip
<dneighbo> you have postgres?
<dneighbo> Me2000 can i ask what you are looking to do with gnue?
<Me2000> well, i yust compiled geas without mysql-support
<Me2000> yes, i try to use it for a project in a labor
<dneighbo> did it recognize your postgres install
<dneighbo> in a labor?
<Me2000> everything is fine now, but befor it wasn't because of mysql
<Me2000> labor (german) = laboratory
<Me2000> sorry
<Me2000> this laboratory is making blood diagnostics and so
<Me2000> the customer have very different types of price-calculation
<ra3vat> dneighbo: i can forward it only tomorrow from work if jamest will not do that first
<Me2000> is gnue perhaps the right solution?
<dneighbo> perhaps would have to know more
<dneighbo> was curious as depending on how soon you need it
<dneighbo> you might want to look at forms
<dneighbo> and using in two tier mode first
<dneighbo> it all depends on how you plan to use the tools :)
<dneighbo> one thinkg you can be sure of if you are actively using gnue, you should find a lot of support here :)
<Me2000> but gnue is a complete set of tools for such a project?
<dneighbo> should be
<dneighbo> just right now the application server (GEAS) and forms are not fully workign together
<dneighbo> they will be SOON
<Me2000> i hope so :-)
<dneighbo> using a combo of the tools you should be able to do waht you need
<Me2000> in your articel Small Enterprises Fear Being Left Out In IT Cold you wrote that you are looking for case studies
<Me2000> perhaps that could be one
<Me2000> why are you involved in gnue?
<dneighbo> that would be great to have you as a case study :)
<dneighbo> im in gnue because at one time wrote a supply chain package for a small enterprise
<dneighbo> it MADE thier business grow by several times 10 to 15
<dneighbo> because of the technology
<Mr_You> derek, any "word" about the Forms-like group?
<dneighbo> i went to make it for another customer but whould end up rewriting it to meet thier needs
<dneighbo> i felt i needed something that was modular
<dneighbo> so i could reuse parts for clients
<dneighbo> and cut cost of development for them
<dneighbo> i wanted it ot be GPL and run on linux and windows
<dneighbo> i met jamest who had a similar vision
<dneighbo> and we went from there :)
<Me2000> ok that meetes the needs we have
<Mr_You> I would say that would be why most of us want GNUe ;-)
<dneighbo> our original stab at it (jade and i) was jadeke and was all webbased with mozilla (XUL) and PHP
<dneighbo> i found speed to be horrible and web to be plauged with problems
<dneighbo> thats when we found a dying gnu enterprise project and thats where it started so to speak
<Me2000> what exactly did this supply chain application do?
<dneighbo> managed inventory/invoices for a distribution company
<dneighbo> specifically making all invoicing inventory digital
<dneighbo> and did EDI transactions with large businesses
<dneighbo> to stream line things
<Me2000> wow
<dneighbo> our customer was only small guy able to do EDI
<dneighbo> as we gave them EDI solution for 3000 USD
<dneighbo> going rate was about 100000 USD
<dneighbo> so they blew all thier competition away
<dneighbo> as all the companies told people EDI or we dont do business with you
<dneighbo> our company got all that business
<dneighbo> s/company/customer
<Mr_You> yeah everything is EDI.. but one problem I see is with a certain company.. everything proprietary.. 
<Mr_You> if they were introduced to GNUe strange things could happen
<dneighbo> Mr_You EDI is evil, but GNUe will compete on that more at 5 :)
<dneighbo> i.e. derek has some tricks up the ole sleeve on such things
<Me2000> i don't know too much about EDI licenses
<dneighbo> as to forms like thing they responded and i responded back
<dneighbo> they were open to talkign more, but not likely they will merge
<dneighbo> EDI is not licensed
<Mr_You> at my dads location.. I see many possibilities.. one is just direct terminal emulation within a window.. the other is screen scraping.
Action: neilt is back
<dneighbo> i wont go into it here
<Me2000> Mr_You: Why don't you like EDI?
<dneighbo> but its kind of like XML in what they want it to do
<dneighbo> only it rides on prop software w/ prop VAN's
<Mr_You> screen scraping for EDI.. if they don't provide direct communication methods.. and or reverse engineering would be needed
<Mr_You> Me2000: I do..
<dneighbo> all of which get a 'piece of the pie' along the way
<dneighbo> Mr_You : i dont think you need any of that
<neilt> dneighbo: hi, from earlier
<dneighbo> the EDI transaction documents are publically available
<dneighbo> the real problem IMHO is VAN's
<Mr_You> ahh
<Me2000> i thought so too
<dneighbo> and paying levies to transport documents to your 'partners'
<Mr_You> dneighbo: how does a vendor price for EDI?  per connection?
<Me2000> what's a VAN
<dneighbo> VAN = Value Added Network
<dneighbo> think VPN
<dneighbo> in a sense
<Mr_You> what about local EDI?
<dneighbo> Mr_You : what happens is say walmart signs up with GE SErvices
<Mr_You> local network
<dneighbo> for EDI
<Mr_You> not remote, local
<Mr_You> like I want to tie into my dads inventory
<dneighbo> GE cuts them a deal and handles it all and puts everything through thier VAN
<dneighbo> usually at minimal or no cost to walmart
<dneighbo> but now ANYONE doing biz with walmart
<Mr_You> but that is not my scenario.. I understand that
<dneighbo> has to go through GE VAN
<dneighbo> and gets charged USUALLY per document
<dneighbo> as well as per character
<dneighbo> so its like paying the GE 'Toll' to conduct biz with walmart
<Mr_You> thats the "old school" method tho?  telcos just have PTP connections and EDI is done TCP/IP..
<dneighbo> its really rather draconian and makes what microsoft does with licensing look like sainthood IMHO
<dneighbo> Mr_You : um not really
<dneighbo> most will take Internet traffic now
<dneighbo> but they still charge the levies
<dneighbo> LDC deals with
<dneighbo> Sears, Sports Authority, Best Buy, Blockbuster and several others Autozone, Checker 
<dneighbo> etc
<Mr_You> ok.. well I guess its different for telcos.. I'm not sure how my dads works.. I think its all by modem.. hehe.. but here's my situation:
<dneighbo> and they ahve to go via third party van for all of them
<dneighbo> im sure neilt deals with this more than i have of late, but i think its pretty much still this way
<Mr_You> local machine has proprietary system.. need to integrate GNUe and proprietary system.. connectivity via serial connection.. unsure if protocol connectivity would be available.. but screen scaping would be an option.
<Mr_You> when I worked at a telco, I believe all they had was a PTP WAN into a private bell south network and they connected a specific machine to a remote machine to send/receive data..
<Mr_You> derek: how could edi be possible with a proprietary terminal based system?
<Mr_You> ie. local
<Mr_You> side by side
<Mr_You> screen scraping or reverse engineering no?
<Mr_You> but possibly not worth the hassle.. just mix PCs with terminal emulation and regular terminals?
<Me2000> it's the same like big food shops does with little companies. if these companies wanted a product to be placed in the shops they have to pay a high fee.
<Mr_You> derek: are you saying when I find out the solution GNUe will be another success?  ;-))
Action: Mr_You needs to run
<Mr_You> lo?
<Mr_You> hrrrm
<Mr_You> damn blew me off I guess
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<Mr_You> could atleast say "brb" in the middle of a conversation derek.. 
<Mr_You> :-P
<Mr_You> bbl
<Me2000> bye
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<dneighbo> Mr_You sorry
<dneighbo> im batch processing a bunch of crap on diff machines
<dneighbo> this machines process started sucking power
<dneighbo> so couldnt get this wnindow back up
<dneighbo> then got called away :(
<dneighbo> am back now :)
<dneighbo> until next cpu suckage :)
<dneighbo> i woudl say reverse engineering woudl probably be better than screen scrapping
<dneighbo> but would have to see it
<dneighbo> as not sure exactly what they are doing
<dneighbo> btw: didnt mean to be rude honest
Nick change: jcAway -> jcater
<dneighbo> he lives
<dneighbo> just waking up?
<dneighbo> ;)
<jcater> um
<jcater> that's debatable
<dneighbo> the living or the waking up?
<jcater> living
<jcater> I hate days like today
<jcater> I needed to get a new linux box setup to take to our other office
<jcater> didn't plan on spending most of the afternoon getting the friggin floppy drive to work
<jcater> :)
<Mr_You> http://www.cci-triad.com/automotive/index_auto.html
<Mr_You> thats a url for a proprietary system which would be interesting to integrate GNUe with
<Mr_You> I think my dad could use the accounting portion of GNUe mostly
<Mr_You> and maybe batch processing of data entry
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<derek> is a network admin in the house?
<derek> please please please let someone be here that understands mail routing :)
<Mr_You> ?
<Mr_You> sys admin does mail ;-)
<Mr_You> whats up?
Action: Mr_You watches PBS special on time traveling..
<derek> ok
<derek> i wrote php script
<derek> that does mass mailing
<derek> the problem i did it all on my local machine with local dataset to not disturb production i REALLY dont want to move it
<derek> w/ php i can tell it in header who to reply to and who coming from
<derek> but the mail is still stamped as coming from
<derek> nobody@latitude.maricopa.gov
<derek> which isnt a valid mail server
<derek> so some peoples mail system will bounce it
<Mr_You> hm
<derek> so is there way i can force sendmail to say mail is coming from a different domain name/
<derek> or do i need to just change my machine name
<derek> or something?
<Mr_You> I think there are a couple ways..
<derek> i woudl rather do at the sendmail level
<Mr_You> I wonder why its not sending with your set from address..
<Mr_You> what version of sendmail?
<derek> dont know
<derek> and dont know how to tell
<Mr_You> what host?
<Mr_You> telnet to port 25
<derek> [root@latitude dneighbo]# telnet localhost:25
<derek> localhost:25: Unknown host
<derek> [root@latitude dneighbo]# 
<derek> i dont think i ahve sendmail running as a server
<derek> rather php just calls it to shove mail out
<Mr_You> its sending local
<Mr_You> I guess..
<Mr_You> php needs an smtp host
<derek> argh
<derek> i dont think so
<Mr_You> then it sends locally.
<derek> im not explaining well enough i suppose
<Mr_You> how will mail leave that machine?
<Mr_You> or leave php
<derek> sendmail_from
<derek> me@localhost.comme@localhost.com sendmail_path
<derek> /usr/sbin/sendmail -t/usr/sbin/sendmail -t short_open_tag
<derek> OnOn SMTP
<derek> localhostlocalhost sql.safe_mode
<derek> OffOff track_errors
<derek> OffOff track_vars
<derek> OnOn
<derek> is the settings for php
<derek> i then use the mail() function
<derek> which i assume calls those
<Mr_You> ok
<derek> it says me@localhost.com though
<Mr_You> its calling sendmail as the web server user.. (nobody).. 
<derek> does that auto translate or something?
<derek> as if i can just override at this level my problem is soved via php.ini
<derek> file
<Mr_You> you can set sendmail to masquarade as a specific domain/hosts
<Mr_You> host
<derek> sigh
<derek> i really didnt want to jump through the world to do this
<derek> i.e. i spent 20 minutes on program
<Mr_You> by default thats how most work I guess..
<Mr_You> but masquarading is easy
<Mr_You> I think its Dm <domain> in the sendmail.cf file.. restart sendmail
<Mr_You> search for masq or such
<derek> too complicated for me
<Mr_You> its just one line
<Mr_You> edit one line
<Mr_You> restart sendmail
<Mr_You> actually duh
<Mr_You> you don't have to restart it cause its running on the command line.. I assume it will work.. but its just one line
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<Mr_You> m4# who I masquerade as (null for no masquerading) (see also $=M)
<Mr_You> DM
<derek> ok
<derek> looks like mail() takes 5th param
<derek> to pass to mailer
<derek> i think -f
<Mr_You> all outgoing domain will be rewritten to user@<domain>
<Mr_You> all
<derek> will fix things
<derek> -fname      Sets the name of the ``from'' person (i.e., the sender of the
<derek>                  mail).  -f can only be used by ``trusted'' users (normally
<derek>                  root, daemon, and network) or if the person you are trying to
<derek>                  become is the same as the person you are.
Action: derek goes to try
<Mr_You> freebsd doesn't have that mail feature
<Mr_You> ahh sendmail 
<Mr_You> hmm
<derek> sigh i would have to upgrade to php 4.0.5 to use that feature
<Mr_You> thats gonna fork a bunch of sendmail processes?  ;-)
Action: derek feels like throwing crap
<Mr_You> eodd
<Mr_You> bbl
Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch
Nick change: jcater -> jcAway
<derek> Mr_You: might have solution, just maybe, will see if it passes mustard it does what i expect, question is does what i expect fix it :)
<derek> i changed php.ini to say /usr/sbin/sendmail -t -fwebmaster@domain.com
<derek> then added a Tnobody
<derek> to sendmail.cf
<derek> so nobody is trusted user
<Mr_You> sounds good
<derek> now if my clients mail sniffer doesnt bounce it im set
<derek> if it looks at who came from as having to be valid then i have to do more magic
<derek> do you konw where sendmail logs are?
<derek> there is /var/sendmail
<derek> er /var/log/sendmail.st or something but its binary
<Mr_You> could be /var/log/maillog
<Mr_You> or syslog
<Mr_You> or messages
<derek> how can i login as nobody?
<Mr_You> what OS?
<Mr_You> su to root and su (-) nobody
<derek> hmmm doesnt seem to work
<Mr_You> needs a shell
<derek> ah no - necessary :)
<Mr_You> yeah dash is optional ()
<Mr_You> sorry
<derek> um
<derek> poop
<derek> cant run pine
<derek> suppose doesnt matter
<derek> as maricopa.gov mail logs are the ones getting toasted
<derek> ouch
<derek> thats work
<derek> not good :)
<derek> good thing they probalby dont even know how to read exchange logs
<derek> and volume is so huge probably doesnt matter :)
Action: derek needs to change his domain so stuff like that comes to my domain :)
<derek> hmmm where does it get that info?
<Mr_You> they probably don't notice
<derek> as i show it as being latitude.delphigeek.com
<derek> not latitude.maricopa.gov
<Mr_You> what?
<derek> somewhere its different....
<Mr_You> I dunno what yer talkin about
<derek> where do you define the machine name and domain name?
<Mr_You> it gets its machine name by the hostname.
<derek> obviously everythign says latitude for machine name so thats good to go
<Mr_You> the IP must match the machine name.. forward and reverse DNS
<derek> but domain part is inconsistent so must be in more than one place
<derek> NETWORKING=yes
<derek> HOSTNAME="latitude.delphigeek.com"
<derek> GATEWAY="192.168.100.90"
<derek> GATEWAYDEV="eth0"
<derek> FORWARD_IPV4="no"
<derek> network (END) 
<derek> is what one file says
<Mr_You> but what is reverse DNS for that IP
<Mr_You> it must match
<derek> huh>?
<Mr_You> and that machine can't talk to outside host
<derek> i dont have dns server with that info anywhere
<derek> but somehow its writing the maricopa.gov
<derek> so it has to be getting from somewhere
<Mr_You> a DNS lookup for that IP address must result in the machine+domain..
<derek> seeing how im not connected to any machine on thier network :)
<derek> that aint where it coming from :)
<Mr_You> and the DNS lookup for machine+domain must match that IP (normally done)
<Mr_You> I have no idea what you are trying to do really
<derek> i think htere is different explaination
<Mr_You> besides send mail from a machine ;-)
<derek> when i send mail from local machine
<Mr_You> which has several pieces..
<derek> it said nobody@maricopa.gov
<derek> ah bitch
<derek> i bet apache has that some where
<Mr_You> apache runs as user nobody
<Mr_You> if I knew your setup/config I could help
<Mr_You> ie. machine A is behind a NAT device, how will email get out?
<derek> nope aint in apache
<derek> ok forget this box is connect to ANY network
<derek> AT ALL
<derek> standalone 
<derek> no network connection
<derek> if i try to send a mail
<derek> it will say from nobody@latitude.maricopa.gov
<derek> if from apache
<derek> if from me
<derek> it would be dneighb@latitude.maricopal.gov
<derek> i want to know where its getting the maricopa.gov
<Mr_You> unless you set pine config?
<derek> nevermind
<derek> im not explaining well
<Mr_You> well does the -f not work?
<Mr_You> with the trusted user nobody in sendmail.cf?
<derek> no that works fine
<derek> the problem shoujdl be solved
<derek> im not trying to solve that problem
<Mr_You> ok
<derek> im wondering where maricopa.gov is coming from that all
<derek> and its not something external to the network
<Mr_You> you specified it in the -f right?
<derek> as im not on a network with it
<Mr_You> isn't that where its coming from now?  
<derek> no i specificed webmaster@clientdomain.com
<derek> and thats where it says its comeing from
<Mr_You> otherwise it comes from your config specified above.. or
<derek> but by default was latitude.maricopa.gov
<Mr_You> sendmail does a fqdn lookup for machinename..
<derek> i want to know WHERE it was getting that maricopa.gov from
<Mr_You> so dns 
<derek> as my hostname in my files was delphigeek.com
Action: derek isnt buying dns
<Mr_You> oh
<derek> unless you can explain how on a local network its getting
<derek> shit
<Mr_You> hmm
<derek> i think i know now
<Mr_You> is it writing mail to NFS mail server/
<derek> you are correct :)
<Mr_You> ;-)
<derek> it looks at dns
<derek> only i have dns set to look at /etc/hosts first :)
<Mr_You> ok
<derek> then dns server
<derek> 156.42.63.184   latitude.maricopa.gov   latitude
<derek> 192.168.100.90  latitude.delphigeek.com latitude
<derek> 127.0.0.1       localhost       gnue
<derek> 127.0.0.1       localhost       solomon
<derek> 127.0.0.1       localhost       shodan
<derek> 192.168.100.90  gateway.delphigeek.com  gateway
<derek> is in my hosts file :)
<Mr_You> ahh
<derek> my ip isnt 156.42.63.184
<derek> but i figure thats still where its getting it from
<derek> is there way to check your dns
<derek> i.e. do same thing that sendmail does?
<Mr_You> do an nslookup on your IP
<derek> [root@latitude /]# nslookup 192.168.100.70
<derek> Server:  ns1.az.sprintbbd.net
<derek> Address:  24.221.30.3
<derek> *** ns1.az.sprintbbd.net can't find 192.168.100.70: Non-existent host/domain
<derek> [root@latitude /]# 
<derek> no dice
<Mr_You> hmm
<derek> as nslookup doesnt work same i think
<derek> i.e. it doesnt go at /etc/hosts file
<Mr_You> right
<Mr_You> nslookup always uses DNS
<Mr_You> I was just curious
<derek> i just would like to fix this so in future things dont 'accidently' go to maricopa.gov :)
<Mr_You> a mail server may require that to be fixed to send mail to any other mail server..
<Mr_You> local or otherwise
<derek> well only if mail is picky :)
<derek> i.e. i tested this thing on like 15 different email accounts
<derek> in diff places all worked fine
<Mr_You> what is the main IP of the machine?  not alis
<Mr_You> alias
<derek> CEPT the guy that is paying for the owrk :)
<Mr_You> most up to date mail servers perform that check
<derek> 192.168.100.70
<Mr_You> 156.42.63.184   latitude.maricopa.gov
<Mr_You> that local or remote?
<derek> local
<derek> and the other ip is my ip at work
<derek> oh well i will let it lie unless i have more issues
<Mr_You> what does that mean?
<Mr_You> are those two IPs on the same machine??
<derek> as i have to get work done, wish that guy would call to confirm mail did or didnt arrive
<derek> Mr_You: yes, but at diff times :)
<derek> i.e. when i go to work i change my ip
<Mr_You> VPN?
<derek> when i come home i change it back
<derek> only now at work i use dhcp
<derek> and plan to do so at home
<Mr_You> why?
<derek> so i dont have to 'change'
<derek> but anyhow thats another conversation
<derek> this box is going to debian soon enough
<Mr_You> hrrmm.. this a laptop?
<derek> yes
<Mr_You> why do you care where the email comes from on your laptop??
<Mr_You> *shrug*
<Mr_You> I'm gettin off IRC
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<derek> :)
<derek> does jamest live here anymore?
Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy
Nick change: jcAway -> jcater
Action: jcater thinks he scared jamest away
chillywilly (baumannd@d44.as2.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: jcater is proud of himself
<jcater> just compiled latest kernel plus put root filesystem on a ReiserFS
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> kewl
Action: chillywilly is gonna do debian with xfs by the time the next LUG meeting rolls around so then I can update to unstable via T3
<chillywilly> you got 2.4.7?
<jcater> yip
<jcater> supposedly it has improved nfsd locking alot
<chillywilly> Linux obfuscation 2.4.7 #1 Sat Jul 21 11:09:41 CDT 2001 i686 unknown
<chillywilly> I always compile the latest
<jcater> well, this is my first non-BSD custom kernel
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> so I'm proud
<chillywilly> well I have never compiled BSD
<jcater> don't rain on my parade :)
<chillywilly> sorry
<chillywilly> I am proud of you too
<chillywilly> :)
<jcater> it was a lot less painful than I was expecting
Action: chillywilly prefers making kernel debs...makeing kernel rpms is too painful
<chillywilly> kernel-image-2.4.3_custom.2.0_i386.deb
<chillywilly> kernel-image-2.4.4_custom.2.1_i386.deb
<chillywilly> kernel-image-2.4.5_custom.2.2_i386.deb
<chillywilly> kernel-image-2.4.6_custom.2.3_i386.deb
<chillywilly> kernel-image-2.4.7_custom.2.4_i386.deb
<chillywilly> dpkg -i kernel-image... is as painless as it ever gets... and make-kpkg is the best damn thing ever invented ;)
<jcater> argh!
<chillywilly> http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/7/23/23214/3438
<chillywilly> uh oh
<chillywilly> what's up jc?
<jcater> um
<jcater> I guess when I changed the root filesystem
<jcater> it overwrote lilo
<chillywilly> oops
<jcater> how can I get my system to boot? :)
<jcater> reinstall
<jcater> ?
<chillywilly> bootdisk
<chillywilly> hopefully you have one
Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch