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<derek> sup chillywilly
<chillywilly> reading some news
<chillywilly> haven't done that ina  while
<chillywilly> wish I had the money to drive back down to Chicago for the second round of protests
<chillywilly> ;)
<derek> nah drive to SF instead
<chillywilly> maybe I could find them this time
<derek> hang with your gnue family :)
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> we are all god's children
<derek> yip
<chillywilly> http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/28/0715210
<chillywilly> talks about all the stuff they did the OPN
<chillywilly> a new IRC daemon that is supposed to reduce netsplits
<chillywilly> (ummm, I dun think it is working though :P)
<chillywilly> maybe they are done monkeying around now
<derek> rofl
<chillywilly> I know the meaning of life though
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> how many can say that?
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<chillywilly> hi dtm
<dtm> hey there chillster
<dtm> i guess there's some stuff changing with OPN  :)
<dtm> i'm on irc.openprojects.net:9000 now.
<chillywilly> 9000?
<chillywilly> what' so special about port 9000?
<dtm> that's what the server message was just before they disconnected everyone the first time tonight.
<dtm> and it said to check all our server side access lists and authentication and such.
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<dtm> ok now i'm on irc.linux.com:6667 like normal.
<chillywilly> they hav especial version of ircd, etc, on 9000?
Action: chillywilly didn't get the message
<dtm> i'm not sure
<dtm> didn't they disconnect everyone?  i thought they disconnected me.
<chillywilly> I got kicked off a bunch of times
<dtm> -andy- Friendly reminder to all our users: Please connect to irc.openprojects.net:9000 and h-andy- Friendly reminder to all our users: Please connect to irc.openprojects.net:9000 and have a look at your NickServ and ChanServ profiles. This is the last major step before we switch over to the new ircd. Please do so immediately. Thanks.ave a look at your NickServ and ChanServ profiles. This is the last major step before we switch over to the new ircd. P
<chillywilly> the services seem a bit different now
<dtm> i think my profiles are all fine afaik
<chillywilly> how do you look at  your profile(s)?
<dtm> that was a slightly confusing message.
<chillywilly> it only repeated several time
<chillywilly> times
<dtm> you can do '/msg chanserv' for each of your channels, to list their access lists.
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<ToyMan> good morning
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<Mr_You> hi
[09:21] MSG541<Mr_You> gonna install new dcl
<Mr_You> today
<ToyMan> derek: you around?
Action: ToyMan toyman checks out the action command
<jamest> ah users
<jamest> you gotta love 'em
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<derek> ToyMan: am here now
<derek> jamest: you dont HAVE to love users
<ToyMan> hi derek
<ToyMan> my ISP copied our web site to a new server
<derek> fun
<chillywilly> hey hey hey
<chillywilly> what's shankin' dudes
<ToyMan> they somehow made 8 copies of the site in different directories
<ToyMan> with linked directories pointing all over the place
<ToyMan> can't tell where the 'real' site is living now
<ToyMan> and I can't modify anything to check because my disk quota is exceeded
<ToyMan> I wonder why
<ToyMan> anyone know traceroute?
<ToyMan> can I use that to see what files my domain is actually pointing to?
<chillywilly> no
<chillywilly> it just tells you how many hops away you are
<ToyMan> hmmm. any other tools that I could use
<ToyMan> ?
<chillywilly> they won't tell you?
<chillywilly> they using apache?
<ToyMan> their 'techs' can hardly handle a telnet session
<ToyMan> yeah, apache
<chillywilly> they should have ot configured to use a certain dir
<chillywilly> and they should know what that is
<ToyMan> I've got 2 domains, and they're both supposed to opint to the same place
<ToyMan> but they don't
<ToyMan> and the techs don't know what the default dir structure is supposed to be
<ToyMan> I'm on queue for a admin to call me in about 8 hours
<ToyMan> time for a new ISP
<chillywilly> ah
<chillywilly> hehe
<ToyMan> time to set up my own webserver
<jamest> ToyMan: ouch
<ToyMan> but no broadband yet :-(
<chillywilly> you should be able to read the apache conf file, if they run it on the same machine
<ToyMan> is that a global config file, or is there one for each user?
<Mr_You> unless access rights deny you seeing the file
Action: ToyMan is trying to search for apache.conf file
<chillywilly> well I meant you might be able to read it
<jamest> ToyMan: could you do a  uname -a
<jamest> if we know the os/distro we might be able to narrow it down some
<ToyMan> FreeBSD shell1.thebiz.net 4.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 4.0-RELEASE #0: Tue Jul 11 13:35:02 EDT 2000     maz@web1.thebiz.net:/usr/src/sys/compile/DISKLESS-DS10  alpha
<derek> ToyMan: we can offer you a hosting solution perhaps :)
<ToyMan> I'm interested
<ToyMan> can you guys host a Zope site?
<jamest> ToyMan: the file you probably want is httpd.conf or access.conf
<derek> we could do that
<ToyMan> Zope is pretty cool
<derek> your site isnt a zope site right now is it?
<ToyMan> not now
<derek> zope is pretty cool, but in my opinion still a bit of a toy
<derek> it doesnt scale too well and has some 'oddities' to it
<derek> but it does use python, so its not all bad :)
<ToyMan> I'm switching to zope 'cause of the content management
<ToyMan> lot's of remote contributers and I need to give each of them a 'playground'
<ToyMan> there seem's to be some fairly sizeable sites running it now
<derek> its ok
<ToyMan> from what I here, just don't use there default datastore
<derek> if its what you're comfy with then thats what counts
<ToyMan> run postgresql on the back end
<derek> definitely do not use thier backend
<derek> as it locks you to them pretty much for ever and the tools for it are horrid :)
<ToyMan> do you know of a good alternative?
<ToyMan> yeah the web-based interface is not too nice
<Mr_You> typo3.com seems like a nice CMS
<ToyMan> but the inheritance properties are
<ToyMan> is typo GNU
<ToyMan> ?
<derek> um midgard for php is supposed to be nice, but i wasnt really thrilled with it either
<Mr_You> GPLed yes
<derek> jcater and jamest have used in the past
<ToyMan> thanks, let me check
<Mr_You> its not as sophisticated as zope, but I might try it one day..
<derek> depends on what you are doing as well
<Mr_You> some of the sites made with it are really nice
<ToyMan> right now, mainly adding LOTS of content from a lot of different sources
<ToyMan> have to have some way to grant access rights and keep things organized
<derek> zope isnt all bad btw
<derek> i think jcater is using it for some stuff
<ToyMan> Zope seems pretty strong on that count
<derek> yes it is
<derek> well i have to run
<derek> stu will be back in an hour or so will tell you some of what i found 
<derek> bye bye
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<jamest> gotta run!
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<ToyMan> this is too much
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<dneighbo> too much?
<dneighbo> hmm
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<dneighbo> good morning 
<jcater> morning
Action: dneighbo wonders where james escaped too and what stu though was too much?
<jcater> ?
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<dneighbo> hi ToyMan 
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<dneighbo> what was too much?
<dneighbo> hi jamest 
<jamest> howdy
<dneighbo> ToyMan your last words were this is too much
<jcater> hiya jamest
<jamest> hi
<ToyMan> yeah, my xchat client froze
<ToyMan> so I went and changed the name of one of the product pages on my web site
<ToyMan> in all 8 copies
<ToyMan> and none of them took
<ToyMan> i.e. no one knows where my web site now lives
<dneighbo> ToyMan yikes
<ToyMan> so.... this is too much
<ToyMan> they must be living on a different server
<ToyMan> there's an admin I wanna hire...
<ToyMan> dneighbo: take any more looks at Contacts or Production?
<dneighbo> ToyMan i did look more
<dneighbo> access2000 is the spawn of satan 
<dneighbo> if i open the files in 2000 and do NOT convert them to 2000 then i cant do anything but 'view' them
<ToyMan> no copies of Access '97 on hand?
<dneighbo> if i allow access to convert them 2000 then all hell breaks loose
<dneighbo> as it says im not a valid user to change thigns
<dneighbo> ToyMan yeah i have access 97 but only at the office
<ToyMan> i just gave up on upgrading
<dneighbo> so i used VNC to connect to office
<dneighbo> and created the table in postgres at the office
<dneighbo> for contacts
<dneighbo> and started the migration
<dneighbo> and windows locked up (suprise)
<dneighbo> since was not physically there couldnt reboot
<dneighbo> so got stalemated for the weekend :(
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<ToyMan> i sent the system.mdw file as well
<ToyMan> should be in the same directory
<ToyMan> you may have to join the user group to edit
<dneighbo> ToyMan w/ access97 i had no issues
<dneighbo> worked fine
<dneighbo> with 2000 all sorts of issues :)
<ToyMan> i'll burn a copy for home if you like
<dneighbo> the import problem i was having had to do with a data type mismatch somewhere between postgres and access
<dneighbo> no need
<dneighbo> im good to go i think
<ToyMan> great, i'm in no hurry about this
<ToyMan> what I've got works.... sort of
<dneighbo> ah ha
<dneighbo> death to evil access
<dneighbo> stu i think i narrowed some issues :)
<ToyMan> great
<dneighbo> you ahve some accessisms in your stuff :)
<dneighbo> like 'rep' in the contacts table
<ToyMan> oh oh
<ToyMan> like what kind of stuff
<dneighbo> its definition is 'long int' so thats what i made the postgres table
<ToyMan> ?
<dneighbo> BUT
<dneighbo> it really displays a TEXT value
<dneighbo> so cut and paste no work
<ToyMan> huh?
<dneighbo> its because yuo have it bound via 'lookup'
<dneighbo> to an employee table
<ToyMan> ah yes lots of 'lookups' used
Action: dneighbo cant believe access does this (but i can believe it)
<dneighbo> so while it really stores a 'number'
<dneighbo> it wont display that
Action: dneighbo is gonna try to remove the lookup
<dneighbo> and see if that will work
<dneighbo> if not i can make that a text field and postgres
<ToyMan> most of the lookups are for convenience sake
<dneighbo> yes
<dneighbo> lookups are a GOOD thing
<ToyMan> can postgres do that sort of thing?\
<dneighbo> just the database should allow you to see what its REALLY storing (i.e. the integer)
<ToyMan> agreed
<dneighbo> and not the lookup value output
<dneighbo> its a join
<dneighbo> we do same thing in gnue all over the place :)
<dneighbo> just we do it on the application level
<dneighbo> so we dont shoot our feet off like access does :)
<ToyMan> mucho better
<dneighbo> muy beuno
<dneighbo> was way to turn things off and display data, maybe access not so evil... 
<dneighbo> nah...
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Action: chillywilly is away: shower
<dneighbo> ToyMan : sigh, now dumb booleans are playing games they use Yes/No instead of 0 or 1
Action: dneighbo slaps m$
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<ajmitch> hi ToyMan
<ToyMan> hi
<dneighbo> toyman
<ToyMan> yep
<dneighbo> yes/no fields in access are EVIL
<dneighbo> evil, evil, evil
<ToyMan> i agree
<ToyMan> just getting them to work IN access was a pain
<ajmitch> access is plain evil
<ToyMan> seems like we have a concensus here
<ajmitch> give me postgresql any day
<dneighbo> i mean WHO the hell makes a yes/no
<dneighbo> be 0/-1
<ajmitch> heh, but i have to use access at uni
<dneighbo> opposed to 1/0
<dneighbo> ?
<ToyMan> makes sense if you stick your head up your ass
<Mr_You> derek: haha
<Mr_You> toy: haha
<ToyMan> ajmitch: tell your prof that he's in service to evil
<ajmitch> ToyMan: it's first year stuff
<Mr_You> toyman is a comedian.. haha
<ajmitch> i think they'd scare people away if they gave them 'hard' tools :)
<ajmitch> but access still has to go...
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Action: Mr_You hopes he didn't say something wrong.
<dneighbo> nah i think his connection has issues
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<ToyMan> back again
<ToyMan> the windows me box i'm gatewayed through automagically rebooted
<ToyMan> it probably realized I didn't really WANT to be connected
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> man access needs to be brutally harmed :)
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<dneighbo> where is stu
<dneighbo> im finding some data integrity issues in his system :(
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<ToyMan> windows works fine, as long as you don't actually use it
<ToyMan> working on my 3rd reboot of the night
<Mr_You> what version?  you updated patches too?
<dneighbo> ToyMan you here
<dneighbo> you have data issues :)
<dneighbo> access is NOT enforcing your rules for you
<dneighbo> you have about 4 fields that you define as 'required' i.e. not null
<ToyMan> oh dear
<dneighbo> i made my postgres table match this
<ToyMan> which table
<dneighbo> and went to upgrade and got trying to post null in not null
<ToyMan> ?
<dneighbo> go to your contacts table
<dneighbo> contacts db
<ToyMan> don't have it here at home
<dneighbo> contacts table
<dneighbo> ah
<dneighbo> and you have for example
<dneighbo> companyname as a 'required' field
<ToyMan> it's possible that the rules got broken when I imported some data
<dneighbo> but at least 30 records dont have a company name
<dneighbo> same goes for status
<dneighbo> priceid
<dneighbo> and some other fields
<dneighbo> er priceclassid
<dneighbo> might be no worry dont know
<ToyMan> no worry
<dneighbo> just changes either how i make my postgres tables
<dneighbo> or makes me add data to meet the rules :)
<dneighbo> i.e. did you really want these items required?
<ToyMan> I'm depending more on user smarts than data rules
<ToyMan> make the postgres tables with no required fields
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> ok
<dneighbo> i see some room for table improvement too
<dneighbo> for now just trying to do quick data convert
<ToyMan> I can add the requireds and check for rule integrity selectively afterwards
<dneighbo> but when start to make gnue screens will go back to drawing board on many of htese items
<ToyMan> yeah, the table structure grew up kind of ad-hoc
<ToyMan> agreed
<ToyMan> good time to start fresh
<ToyMan> which tables seem ill-formed
<ToyMan> ?
<dneighbo> no too many
<dneighbo> mainly only looking at contact table
<dneighbo> you do the somethingid about 4 or 5 times
<dneighbo> and have it be as text
<ToyMan> ah, that was for backwards compat w/ the DOS app
<dneighbo> i would do as you did the rep field and make it a look up
<dneighbo> against a table
<dneighbo> so storage wise its ok
<dneighbo> would have just done more lookups :)
<ToyMan> oh, that wasn't backwards compat issue
<ToyMan> there was a reason for doing it the way I did
<ToyMan> but I'm forgeting what it was :)
<ToyMan> used to have them in seperate tables
<ToyMan> that's why they follow the somethingID nameing ocnvention
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> joy access just bombed on me
Action: ToyMan is away: ToyMan has to call his admin and figure out why his DNS server just went down
Action: dneighbo is smashing access 
<chillywilly> break it! break it!
<chillywilly> fire! fire!
Action: dneighbo will be back after a regularly scheduled reboot
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<dneighbo> ToyMan : good news bad news
<ToyMan> ??
<dneighbo> good news, i am able to use postgres as a contact table replacement :)
<ToyMan> :)
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<dneighbo> bad news, lunch is over, and there are some accessisms that make the cut and paste method of conversion, well painful :)
<ToyMan> :(
Action: dneighbo wishes he had access 97 at home :(
<dneighbo> as then i woudl write a delphi application to do the conversion
<ToyMan> like what you discussed before?
<dneighbo> yeah the booleans were a bitch
<dneighbo> the work around
<dneighbo> export the original table out to text file
<dneighbo> as it will export a 1 or 0 :)
<ToyMan> ouch
<dneighbo> then read that file back into a new table adn define teh field you import it into as integer
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> but now i have contactid 598 SEGFAULTING the hell out of kernel32
<dneighbo> no errors no messages just a raw kernel32 dump
<dneighbo> so there is 'somethign' in that record reeking havoc, but im not sure what
<ToyMan> in postgres?
<dneighbo> nope in access
<dneighbo> its an 'access' 'access violation' in kernel32.dll :)
<ToyMan> whatever that is...
<dneighbo> yeah descriptive eh
<dneighbo> i will dig deeper later, just have to run some mainframe downloads for finance now
<ToyMan> ok
Action: ToyMan is away: ToyMan has to make dinner
<dneighbo> jcater you lurking around here?
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<neilt> hello all
<dneighbo> hey
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<neilt> dneighbo: you here?
<neilt> anyone else here?
<chillywilly> yep
<neilt> type "bill gates" at the unix command prompt (without the quotes)
<neilt> later all
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<chillywilly> eh?
<chillywilly> I don't get it
<dneighbo> im here
<dneighbo> oops too late
<dneighbo> me either
<dneighbo> i get
<dneighbo> [d_neighbors@www d_neighbors]$ bill gates
<dneighbo> bash: bill: command not found
<dneighbo> [d_neighbors@www d_neighbors]$ man bill
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Action: chillywilly is away: supper
<dneighbo> you east coasters are making me hungry
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:16:48)
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<dneighbo> wonder if jamest will be coming back this evening
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<Phemur> Good evening
<Phemur> Does anyone know where gcc finds its default libraries/library paths?
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<stbain> greetings all
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<dneighbo> hi stbain 
<stbain> been busy
<stbain> took a new job
<stbain> any new developments in the past few weeks
<stbain> ?
<stbain> bbiab... pizza's here
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Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by ChanServ!s@ChanServ: GNU Enterprise : http://www.gnue.org [If no one is home email info@gnue.org]
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Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch
Action: jamest is back (gone 07:26:40)
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<jamest> nite
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