duh hhaaha, that machine's uptime is 69.12 er load avg man I love dcl this sucker can now track inquiries, meetings, projects, products and services.. Action: Mr_You comments to cvs Action: Mr_You needs sleep heh Action: nickr slaps CVS Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: night battery dying must leave bye bye derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: [x]chat Trivial (trivial@adsl-64-170-116-136.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (baumannd@53.milwaukee-11-12rs16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) left irc: Ping timeout for chillywilly[53.milwaukee-11-12rs16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net] jamest_ (jamest@fh-dialup-201182.flinthills.com) left irc: [x]chat chillywilly (danielb@70.milwaukee-06-07rs16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.2) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.2) left irc: Ping timeout for ra3vat[195.239.66.2] Trivial (trivial@adsl-64-170-116-136.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) left irc: Ping timeout for Trivial[adsl-64-170-116-136.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.6) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.6) left irc: Client Exiting ariel (ariel@rm1-393.dialup.tiscalinet.it) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@70.milwaukee-06-07rs16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) left irc: Ping timeout for chillywilly[70.milwaukee-06-07rs16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net] ariel (ariel@rm1-393.dialup.tiscalinet.it) left irc: [x]chat ToyMan (stuq@216.238.225.226) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: ToyMan is away: making toys dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all. what's the email address for trade show coordinators from GNU/FSF? i want to coordinate with them about booth volunteering and other possible things at LWCE. hi I'd contact derek@gnue.org as he's been dealing w/ making sure we have a booth, computers in the booth, etc, etc ToyMan (stuq@216.238.225.226) left irc: [x]chat ToyMan (stuq@c5300-4-ip16.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: ToyMan is away: I'm busy making toys... Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: bbl Action: ToyMan is back Action: ToyMan is away: I'm not back!!! I'm away damnit! What's up with this thing? chillywilly (baumannd@39.west-allis-02rh15rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan: found some of my other possible issues in conversion :) like fact that my server at work is 'stable' in sense that its running postgres 6.5 instead of 7.x Action: ToyMan is away: he really wasn't busy after all... i didnt even notice until i started hacking on a project for work Action: ToyMan is back just a 'sec so later this month i plan to upgrade my servers at work to debian and get some more stable packages ah... I thought of another prob.. are you using your EVIL cut and paste methods? what is the other problem? yeah thats issue too im switching to export to text file and reimport in postgres 'cause the data over here changes every day unless it was done over a weekend oh yeah this wouldnt be a finished solution the good news is that my ISP has finally got wireless DSL up i just trying to get familar with teh data that's worthwhile and get data in postgres to build working forms I should be the first customer for the new broadband it's a big project to be sure sweet they were running all NT with an avg uptime of 3 days I'm getting them to switch to all BSD so reliability should improve a slight bit the new m$ licencing schemem scared them into it :-) we an only hope that M$ arrogance will be their downfall derek: the whole stable/testing/unstable thing is definately a weakness in apt-get im not using debian at work upgrading to debian at work its a strength in my opinion I would agree as most in free software have no idea what 'stable' really means : I've got a RH 7 fileserver here at work after using Debian, I don't even try to upgrade the RH box too painful too risky for a server what are you running at work? derek: missed a few lines up above how finished is the forms engine? what kind of interfaces does it support ? I really mean what kind of widgets um forms rocks my socks it supports gtk, win32, motif currently soon curses, mac and html (ok html not too soon) any qt down the line? no we dont see a need at this point for qt support as you can use gtk version under kde just fine that's true if someone were to make wxQT we would gladly support it I've heard qt is very nice to work with though oh... but we cant see putting the time into making that for little or no gain I would agree, the gtk version will cover your KDE bases... right so for us its not a we hate qt thing we would support it, if someone else were to do the core library work :) we use wxWindows which via one interface gives us mac, win32, gtk and motif so with NO code changes we get all those supported excellent so to hack a special qt branch to basically gain no users we cant reach now doesnt seem logical. :) would be cool to see someone make wxWindows support qt though :) ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.32) joined #gnuenterprise. understood specially since wxWindows is written in C++ (the language of choice for Qt) hmmm... I wonder if someone IS working on it already? hello all hi ToyMan: i dont think so not a big deal ToyMan: it kind of is to me as while im not a big qt fan support for qt could mean support for embedded qt which would be interesting :) as wx doesnt have wxPalm or wxCE yet but both are being discussed most definately - I don't understand the scope of gnue enough to see how all the pieces fit yet i figure it will be a long transition :) from MSAccess to gnue/p0ostgres yeah, wish i wasnt in middle of another consulting gig or i would work about 15 hours a week on this to get you converted I don't mean just the data transition I mean my learning curve for your place i see *nix workstations and servers :) Access/postgress VB/python yep, it will be 'nix all around and then in your warehouse/production running terminal server still undecided whether I like debian or BSD better so you have basically just monitors out there that have full gnue running off the server : just came across a nice article on how to get those old 486's cooking BSD makes for good internet services server debian is good for most other things as diskless workstations debian makes gret severs yip great LTSP and etherboot see jcater about it his whole outfit runs these diskless workstations excellent! also if you are interested im sure we will meet with the etherboot guys in san francisco I definately want workstations out on the factory floor i think can get you bootable ehternet cards for like 9.99 a card I'm buying a new factory space 6X my current size derek: break my budget can't wait to set up the digital infrastructure well diskless is expensive you know :) must go to work bbl derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.32) left irc: Ping timeout for ra3vat[195.239.66.32] chillywilly (baumannd@39.west-allis-02rh15rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) left irc: rebooting to hurd to test ppp jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Ping timeout for jcater[w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net] Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: ToyMan is away: making more toys... dneighbo (dneighbo@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left irc: Ping timeout for dneighbo[alt1.libertydistribution.com] dneighbo (dneighbo@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (baumannd@5.milwaukee-11-12rs16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.15) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: bye ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.15) left irc: Read error to ra3vat[195.239.66.15]: Connection reset by peer Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hey this mysql vs Nusphere thing might get ugly http://news.gnome.org/996763965/ dude thats scary Action: ToyMan is back Action: ToyMan thinks lawyers are such we-wes Action: ToyMan knows from personal experience : ( scariest part of that story is the inference of the "anything to win" mentality damn fairness and honesty - full speed ahead! Action: ToyMan is away: Toyman is going for his mid-day swim :-) Mutiny (trivial@64.170.116.136) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: ToyMan is back neilt (neilt@dialup-166.90.87.174.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ dneighbo: did you ever check into that Great Bridge MsAccess -> PostgresQL util? I've got one of their latest freebee disks @ home - i'll look for it there dneighbo: a little goole search turned this up: http://sevainc.com/Access/ uh ... that's google ToyMan i havent tried it, i might I used fewer indexes with PostgreSQL. You could say I over used indexes with Access. [15:13] MSG541 oops you had that problem IMHO, but didnt say anything before :) maybe Action: dneighbo wonders if access tries to do lots of indexing on purpose or what it seems to want to make them quite ofen often everything was 'fast enough' so I wasn't worried Fields defined with the boolean data type in Access97 are 2 byte integers in Access. In PostgreSQL they are a char. Most things work okay as long as you used code and views like "where boolean_value = true". If you have views or code that uses "where boolean_value = -1 or 0", then you have some code changes to make in your Access application. elegance was not the goal was the problem i was having :) remember me saying what idiot used -1 and 0 for true or false :) : ) is there an emoticon for 'blush' ? yeah, there's some 0/-1 in my code ToyMan: the idiot is M$ not you :) as every SANE tool vendor uses 0 or 1 Make sure every table that you need to update from Access97 has a unique key index or a primary key. Access97 will not allow you to update a table that does not have a unique key index. is also not completely true as you can define a key at link (iirc) wellll, I never know if it's my lack of knowledge or poor program design by M$ If you change any information in the ODBC Data Source Name (DSN) or create a new ODBC data source that you would like to use with Access, then you will need to drop all table links and recreate then in Access. Access appears to store information about the view/table. Future updates to the view or table will not be visible until you re-link the view or table. I created a VBA procedure in Access that will drop and relink all tables. this is TRUE and a MAJOR pain in the arse good site and i will probably try his tool as seems he hit some of same things i did yeah, seems well written i was going to write a converter in delphi but makes more sense to do in ACCESS , i just hate access so didnt want to go there :) I'll look on my Great Bridge CD tonight i have greatbridge CD too from LWE NY I think it's there i think same one I have i can also download it from here the question is you want me to continue to look at this or you think this tool will solve most of your issues? let's look at the conversion tools and see what's already been done no need to reinvent the wheel i agree with that as long as it's a GOOD wheel didnt know how serious you were about switching Action: ToyMan is counting down 12 days to broadband i was pretty serious and figured would be no big deal to use postgres backend with access frontend does that still look doable? his experience seems to have reinforced my original guess that its worth it and not that huge of an undertaking (relatively speaking) it also primes you for being assimilated into GNUe ;) I'm still very much into getting out of access on the backend for that reason too as writing gnue forms to replaces access ones will be trivial with the data already in postgers :) if it's in postgres, I can break the depency on VB yeah no more fear of the BSA and get my python/gnue chops together BSA? Boy Scouts of America I'm terified of them too bad childhood experience? jcater: I hear your running lot's of diskless terms at your site yip how's it working? geat! hard to setup? great! no I used LTSP which is basically a project to ease the setting up of servers I've got about a doz 486's I wanted to set up as terminals would that be LTSP.org? Basically, you have to set up a bootp (or DHCP) server to serve the ip addresses yes got that already then export the necessary directories and TFTP to serve the kernels btw jcater - where'd you get the boot roms? I had a friend with a burner ah you could also boot from floppy or CDROM kinda defeats the purpose though but I like booting from prom cheap and low maint not necessarily why not? you are only booting the NETBOOT or ETHERBOOT code you are still "booting" over the network so all the maintenance is still centralized obviously, ROM is the way to go but is not the only option especially if you have existing equipment w/floppies (and no burner) I've got the burner (somewhere) and a lot of the machines are going into errr.. extreme environments so diskless looks good to me jcater : it's still low maint compared to maintaining 15 seperate installs I run several suns from one kernel with a ro file system exactly aren't we saying the same thing? there's also this pretty good article: http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue68/swieskowski.html Action: ToyMan steps out for some more caffine... hi [15:36] MSG541 how's things? jcater: thought you said not necessarily to the low maint comment my bad I guess ok jamest: you're a core developer, correct? well i guess i think jcater has recoded almost everything I wrote :) but I'll play one on IRC until I have time to work on it again (that no good jcater removed all my bugs I worked so hard on creating) ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.172) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: I was saying not necessarily to the "kinda defeats the purpose though" ok :) I kinda thought maybe being an AI made maintaining lots of machines a rather simple task for you or something :) neilt (neilt@dialup-166.90.87.174.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) left irc: ToyMan (stuq@c5300-4-ip16.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: [x]chat rofl jamest etherboot.com will build you ROMS for burning but at the tradeshow we can talk to the lead (i forget his name) he was saying i htink has place with rom burnt that you can buy for like 9.99 btw: i would like to play with LTSP with minimal stuff for POS terminals symbolics lisp machines? rofl talk about a bizarre box quit brb... rebooting jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: brb... rebooting jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. it takes a real man to program a machine with 36-bit words real men dont use floppies and thus why they should etherboot ;) haha why would you use a bootrom instead of booting via DHCP/bootp? bootrom is responsible for fetching the info from a DHCP/bootp server ok i never had to worry about it in any installations i managed :) real men use ten-keys and index cards :) real men use 2 stripped wires and a battery but MANLY men bang out binary on clay tablets real men use a 3-state machine :) real man ARE a 3-state machine roflmao double roflmao went to take a leak and returned to a.... You might be a real man if.... conversation :) real man use a 3-char words :) real men do gnue real men talk in EBCDIC real men encode all their data in the spin state of the atoms comprising the clay tablet then read the data out manually a real man can end the world by typing Ctrl-D real men have real lives that keeps them out of IRC until all hours of the night :) ho ho ho jcater wins um my roommate liked my contact trackr jcater that is the loser line not the real men line speaking of real men Mr_You i have a real time GPS tracker for my key contac i gotta crack open this dildo so i know what parts to get at radio shack bbiaf huh? GPS key contacts? its called /names #gnuenterise f I don't get it global positioning system? contact tracker Action: Mr_You is lost. or was that a joke? the delivery needed cleaning up ;-) ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.172) left irc: [x]chat GPS = Global Positioning System Action: Mr_You gives up I guess yer joking real men take apart their girlfriends dildo so they can hook it up to a BASIC stamp and control it over the internet Action: Mr_You doesn't like IRC. http://www.98computerjokes.com/content/index.cfm?contentID=576 rofl i was teasing lag so pitiful was like 10 minutes behind why would a real mans girlfriend need a dildo? ho ho ho touche I figured she actually need to invite her other girlfriends over to help her keep up :) Real men use PICs not Basic Stamps I'm gonna see if mdean is interested in a) incorporating my changes eventually or b) a dcl fork of my changes which incorporates latest dcl releases or both. Mr_You what are your cahnages i am running dcl here again :) hey ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.172) joined #gnuenterprise. I could tar up the str/ and you could try it out.. wel what is it all I did was change Tickets to Inquiries, Work Orders to Meetings, Products & Services everywhere.. dcl? yeah dcl.sf.net There are a few other changes I want to make to Meetings.. an incoming email parsing script also cool jamest i want to install for gnue will do but have to get proper rights you be on tonight? bbl meeting ajmitch (ajmitch@p57-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. I'd like to improve the interface a little more.. maybe similar to Akopia/Redhat Interchanges interface its fine the way it is tho just could use some polishing I'm not sure if it would be considered a sales automation tool or not I've never used one might go look for an online demo bbl yes i'll be on tonight jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: [x]chat jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: later Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:19:49) Action: chillywilly is away: coding chillywilly (baumannd@5.milwaukee-11-12rs16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) left irc: bye all dneighbo (dneighbo@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left irc: BitchX FTP Site -- ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/network/chat/irc gnuebot (eggdrop@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ ToyMan (stuq@c5300-3-ip184.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. gnuebot (eggdrop@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left irc: Read error to gnuebot[alt1.libertydistribution.com]: EOF from client gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201182.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by ChanServ!s@ChanServ: GNU Enterprise : http://www.gnue.org [If no one is home email info@gnue.org] #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ ToyMan (stuq@c5300-3-ip184.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: [x]chat apparently a tanker is on fire on the highway here benderfree (warren@ozone.tzone.org) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr_You: maybe you should put it out? nah make smores whoops shmores chillywilly (baumannd@16.west-allis-01rh15rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Greetings. Action: chillywilly is away: dinner hi benderfree Hey. How's life? um, ok i guess ;) Anyone here actively working on gnuenterprise? lol if they're active on IRC, they can't be working ;) too bad you used the word actively as we're all kinda busy lately but most of us are inactively working on it some of us just lurk here Life can be like that. Looking forward to playing with it. :) benderfree: what part you want to play with Good question. I'm fed up with packages that aren't documented and trying to reverse documentation? what's that? engineer tables. ;) A mythical objects. oh, I remeber we've got lots of documentation just look for files ending in .c or .py You're doing well on the sarcasm. ...you also have a lot of PDF's. :) not meant as sarcasm we try to keep things fairly lighthearted in here we've got a fair amount of docs I'll get involved in the project whenever I actually get setup in a new place. Still in the process of moving. that's always fun dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error to dres[4.18.171.42]: EOF from client ;( What is it you work on when you are active? well i try to introduce bugs into gnuef and gnue-common you do a great job there ;) i practice I'm the James Thompson fool you see mentioned on some of the overview docs I'm also the old man arround here i haven't touched geas in ages and have had no input on gnue-config I also scare people off when they ask questions in IRC