jcater (jason@HubS-mcr-24-24-112-3.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: beddy-by time l8r jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201182.flinthills.com) left #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (baumannd@d104.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: mose (mose@aboukir-101-2-1-matricio.adsl.nerim.net) joined #gnuenterprise. mose (mose@aboukir-101-2-1-matricio.adsl.nerim.net) left #gnuenterprise. bigbrother joined #gnuenterprise. gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) got netsplit. gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: Ping timeout for gnuebot[mail.libertydistribution.com] gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) got lost in the net-split. Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by ChanServ!s@ChanServ: GNU Enterprise : http://www.gnue.org [If no one is home email info@gnue.org] #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Ping timeout for derek[cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net] derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) left irc: Ping timeout for dtm[m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com] dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch galliwog (manu@AStrasbourg-202-1-2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. hello someone awake ?? WAKE UP id like to participate to the project. if someone would like to contact me to tell me what is yet to do, here is my e-mail : galliwog@ifrance.com. thanks. galliwog (manu@AStrasbourg-202-1-2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr) left #gnuenterprise. gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: Ping timeout for gnuebot[mail.libertydistribution.com] gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: Ping timeout for gnuebot[mail.libertydistribution.com] gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: Ping timeout for gnuebot[mail.libertydistribution.com] gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Ping timeout for derek[cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net] derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ ToyMan (stuq@216.238.227.230) joined #gnuenterprise. hey toyman mornin how goes gnue? um fine which of you guys are the main coders around here? you and derek I know any others? Nick change: ajmitch -> ajzzzz um I wouldn't say derek or myself are main coders we'd like to be but others contribute as much or more lately lets see jcater is a code machine and has done lots on forms/designer and is working on reports neilt and reinhard have put alot into geas and the base system currently misnamed gnue-config in cvs ra3vat is adding i18n support to forms madlocke is working on UI improvements to forms chillywilli is working on new method system in geas to allow more than C/python methods um someone (i forget who) has provided jcater with 6 patches to gnue designer and I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting ah louis (never in IRC) has done a lot of accounting system layout work stanley klein has worked with this too then you get into some people that have helped out with the site some ToyMan (stuq@216.238.227.230) left irc: Ping timeout for ToyMan[216.238.227.230] ToyMan (stuq@c5300-4-ip94.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. i take it you missed my responce? yeah, my modem is going nuts this morning nothing like a blazing 28.8 connection... um I wouldn't say derek or myself are main coders we'd like to be but others contribute as much or more lately lets see jcater is a code machine and has done lots on forms/designer and is working on reports neilt and reinhard have put alot into geas and the base system currently misnamed gnue-config in cvs ra3vat is adding i18n support to forms madlocke is working on UI improvements to forms chillywilli is working on new method system in geas to allow more than C/python methods um someone (i forget who) has provided jcater with 6 patches to gnue designer and I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting ah louis (never in IRC) has done a lot of accounting system layout work stanley klein has worked with this too then you get into some people that have helped out with the site some and that is all I wrote more folks than I thought thanks for the list sure that doesn't cover old contributors either nor the people working now that I forgot about so you hacking at gnue part-time? what ever happened to the linux-kontor folks? that project seemed active for awhile but I havn't seen any changes to their project site in a long while now we're all part time or more recently no time :) as far as kontor i have no idea what's your 'normal' gig? I looked in to Kontor before I found you guys but Java scares me Action: jamest doesn't like java today I'm a network admin doing programming, web admin, db admin, net admin, hardware support, etc, etc I'm accepting a new job just a sec dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) left irc: Ping timeout for dtm[m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com] dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hi ToyMan hi derek looks like jamest disappeared on you i can only check in once in a while myself gotta get SOME work done :) same here (real work you know) i'm also running the freebsd channel (same server) man, those admins hang there all day! seem to live on irc sigh users anyway I'm accepting new job (accepted actually) just waiting for the guy I need to talk to to come to work today to tell him there I'll be doing who knows what it'll involve network, web work (maybe access :( untill I can show them the light) as400 work and wearing ties not ties! well, actually only one tie at a time not multiple ones :) i think :) well, you can always hide in the server room ToyMan: they have to have a way to hang him and they arent about to stretch thier rope at the office on a network admin and use one of those clip-ons in case you need quick respectability..:) the clip-on would be handy if a hanging attempt was mounted too.. ah good thinking just looking out for myself... I want to see gnue finished! clipon that goes 6 inches above your top button on your pants then you can look uber cool it will never be finished it will be usable in your office :) i expect on a project like this 'maturity' to hit about 7-8 year mark but hopefully deployablity in 3 year mark er 2-3 year mark we are in year 2 now well, I may be able to contribute by doing some real-world 'stress testing' I have everyone around here trained to expect half finished systems... cool were trained to deliver half finished systems so it's a perfect match galliwog (manu@AStrasbourg-202-1-2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. hiya hello i just got your mail so i came i read different documents about gnuE but i dont now what is yet to do jamest you here galliwog: i havce to run to work i wont be back for an hour :( ok maybe ill be there .. or later or tomorrow ... ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.36) joined #gnuenterprise. hi ra3vat hi galliwog hi all ra3vat: do u have time to explain me what is yet to do ?? I'm not the best candidate here for explaining but I'll try if no one is home :) derek has just left r u working for a long time on this project ?? watching is more clear :) ok so u r about to work on it ? i'm playing with some i18n issues in forms as it is important for me - russian :) ok you're russian im french c'est bonne je parle un peu de francais oh, i've saved :) i can't speak a word russian sorry not really now im really ready to run out the door niet ?? galliwog, i should return in about an hour i will gladly fill you in then otherwise perhaps another day or time today? i really have to run though Nick change: derek -> dnWork ok no probleme galliwog: did you look at the irc logs of the channel? no not yet probably you'll find some answers there http://www.gnuenterprise.org/irc-logs/gnue-public.log.07Aug01 yeah but it will take a very very long time im afraid ok, if it is not answered there what would you like to know? well maybe i should read them but i would have known what is yet to do galliwog: you here? yep what do you know about gnue? downloaded it? did you read FAQ, visited web site? madlocke (madlocke@p3EE20606.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi madlocke hi... jamest: reading? he's not here i think maybe you should forward the mail we talked about to him ;) i am sure he'd have some questions about it ;) dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. :) galliwog you still here? Nick change: dneighbo -> derek jamest: i have some complaints, er good ideas about your code ;) #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o derek' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ Action: derek goes to read logs derek: he was here just couple minutes ago ok madlocke: call them complaints as I know it's a mess :) there he is and now you have to blame jcater as much as jamest jamest: UIWidget needs 8 parameters for initalization... jamest: in the old code i send you i used "createContext" because the parameters for the widgets can be different depending on the UI here i am ok galliwog, im here let me tell you what is here to work on jamest: createContext is a class to which UIbase adds basic members derek: ok a. GNUe Forms - Our GUI madlocke we can plan on replacing all of the UI system with something better jamest: specialized UI drivers add ther own fields.. b. GNUe Application Server - Our business rules server c. GNUe Reports - our report server d. GNUe Designer - our rapid application development environment e. GNUe Integrator - our data transofrmation / integration tool f. GNUe Bayonne - Our telephony server / API all have some code base except for GNUe Integrator jamest: ok... maybe step by step... so i have better chane that you look at it ;) all heavily use XML chane=chance Bayonne is in C++ GEAS in C all others in python ok we use wxWindows for the toolkit for Xplatform reasons we then have something called gnue-config which is the base for applications wxWindows ?? and then we have packages like supply chain, accounting etc that are actual applications with the tools many of those have specifications started but no code some do have some code jamest: at the moment i try to write a plugin for webware to be able to type something like http://foo.com/foo.gfd wxWindows is a xplatform widget set and more that allows us one code base ok to run GUI apps on win32, gtk, motif and mac jamest: ra3vat showed me webware.. it's interesting... http://www.wxwindows.org jamest: think we can take some things of it... cool what is webware? I really need to remerge the current branch back into cvs head there is a pyhp or something then get master/detail working again in head that is basically php only in python that could be interesting for a web based forms derek: Webware for Python is a suite of software components for developing object-oriented, web-based applications. The suite uses well known design patterns and includes popular features such as release 0.1.0 (or something) then we can gut the UI stuff derek: ->webware.sourceforge.net jamest: we HAVE to release soemthign soon i know [11:42] MSG541 if for nothing else to get new designer out i was going to release what is in head this weekend why do u HAVE to release something ? trust me, every commit to gnuef head is a world of pain for me in branch or discuss doing so galliwog: because if you want users in this world galliwog: derek starts to develop this odd twitch if we wait to long you have to show them that you are still alive and making improvements :) galliwog: by now he's probably vibrating across the floor how many users do u have ? depends on what you call a user we have had thousands download the software i mean a firm using it on production purpose firms we have at least 3 galliwog: and his wife sticks a scrub pad in his mand and uses him to strip the wax from the floor mand = hand ok releases for us at this point are about getting more user base so what could I do to help galliwog: I've got two people using it here jamest: to talk about widget loading again... we need apps pretty badly jamest: what for exactly ? that and lots of real world use jamest: i will explain you what i wanted to do in the old code... maybe i do it again, because i think the idea was not that bad... the tools are mature enough they are useful madlocke: ok just need to get lots of use so we can know what directions to grow them can you do so in a file and mail it or post it jamest: you remeber that there is a list of parameters for the xml spec somewhere in gnuef so u have now a framework and u have to use it to create applications is that right ?? jamest: so every widget has a static set of parameters as I just turned in my resignation here and things are,um, busy for me jamest: i made an own package for the widgets of every UI that tarball you sent me right? yes jamest: you have it right here? derek: what are the main needs for now ? i have it still was going thru it at home but had(still have) major master/detail issue the new db drivers were supposed to address however that's turned up buggy too :) can you cd to gnuef/src/ui/wxpython/widget derek: galliwog: methods working, right? ra3vat: what ? so that it's not getting to boring maybe add a few new bugs ;) galliwog: what area you interested in? interface or backend stuff? galliwog: greatest need is writing applications and getting peple to use them we do have a framework to create applications madlocke: i'm there look at labels.py jamest / madlocke in future can we post such patches to the forms list so all can review and comment look at label.py derek: hm... you want a fast release? ;) well actually we need to get patches@gnue.org setup prooperly :) well eventually i hope we move to a linux like process once we are more mature jamest: i dont really know what both need where NO ONE commits code that isnt reviewed by someone else first i would probably be better on backend derek: this isn't a patch backend: geas needs lots of method work, forms needs work to function in with geas better (most of this work is CORBA stuff) it's a complete rewrite jamest: it is a patch we can discuss in SF jcater and i have dicussed a bit already you can't apply it as the dir structures have changed alot ok backend should be great derek: it's just a discussion not a we do it now thingy... derek: more a we do it later in about 10 mins ;) madlocke: looking you see that the xml stuff is pulled out from the main dict, so every widget can define different requirements... derek: ill take a look at the sources tomorrow. what parts should I watch ?? jamest: main goal should be that a gfd can be supported by every ui jamest: but maybe someone does not need that... jamest: so every widget for the ui can say what it needs jamest: for one ui a field can be optional for another a requirement... madlocke: this would work well (maybe) with the parser as it defines something similar in itself jamest: yes but it is the same for every ui if you look in gnuef/src/GFPaser.py jamest: this stuff is from GFParser.py derek: ?? ah, that's why it looked similar :) madlocke: interesting idea jamest: if i have a ui with no layout management maybe x,y is required for another one it's optional when do frenchies arrive ?? at startup when the widgets are loaded, the stuff is added to the parser dict madlocke: ok, makes sense to me galliwog: the geas stuff jamest: you see the create method is our backend jamest: ok thx madlocke: yes ill come back tomorrow bya jamest: it has a createContext parameter, that's where the ui driver can add own params for the widgets galliwog (manu@AStrasbourg-202-1-2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: Client Exiting jamest: so different number of params is possible... and different layers can add params jamest: so UIbase can provide basic info, and wxPython for example text height jamest: text height is maybe not important for web widgets... ok, now with this setup the system will still accecpt unsupported parameters correct? jamest: yes of course... ok jamest: there can be special parameters too that are not specified in the gfd but required for the toolkit used by the ui driver jamest: then the ui driver adds these parameters... madlocke: sounds good jamest: i am still not sure how to handle the following: jamest: when i build web pages and get information from the user, how to exchange this information between the gfclient core part and the web page... madlocke: I need to go to lunch with wife now madlocke: ok.... can we discuss in about 1 hour? jamest: ok.. grin ... writing to myself ;) my ideas on web interface are not well thought out jamest: maybe tomorrow..... i have to go soon... but i was thinking of a couple of option ok either later 2day or 2morrow Action: jamest is away: I'm busy jamest: ok then.. bye madlocke (madlocke@p3EE20606.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Client Exiting derek: http://sourceforge.net/projects/open-orm/ just found Scott Ambler's whitepapers a week before not usable :( a. its under QPL which is what rules it out immediately and b. it makes every object a CORBA object we dont want that that we want a light CORBA API so you dont have to deal with CORBA objects in that sense IMHO the geas guys are ones that need to look at it ok, thanks Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: uhh ToyMan (stuq@c5300-4-ip94.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: [x]chat chillywilly (baumannd@d62.as8.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.36) left irc: Client Exiting Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. ajzzzz (ajmitch@p34-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajzzzz[p34-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz] jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. "...and the clouds opened up and God said, 'I hate you Alfalfa" I wonder how this McAfee patent will affect us ? http://iwsun4.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/08/06/010806hnmcafee.xml I haven't read the patent but it sounds like yet another patent that shouldn't have been granted ajzzzz (ajmitch@p3-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. thatsa little fucked. stupid patents all software patents are fucked up for the most part I agree software and drug patents ok, when is it good to have a software patent? I dunno right now ;-) maybe if the patents last for 3 months or something otherwise they just serve as road blocks yeah tell ya the truth I haven't thought about it enough to build an argument against software patents all I know is that I don't like them thats exactly why I said "for the most part" ;-) I haven't heard/read a good enough reason to have them, but it may exists drug patents should also last less time.. yeah that's pretty obvisous