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<derek> wassup with that
<jamest_> nite
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<derek> any postgres studs here?
<derek> nevermind
<dtm> derek: that would be in #dcl and maybe #phpgroupware :)
<derek> i figured it out
<derek> i forgot im a postgres stud ;)
<dtm> ohhhhhhh.
<dtm> good call.
<dtm> derek: i plan on being at the LWCE FSF booth all day on Monday
<dtm> derek: with one accomplice
<dtm> derek: i'll bring any networking equipment i have, if necessary
<derek> cool
<derek> who is your accomplice?
<derek> im assuming you got a hold of brad?
<dtm> yessir
<dtm> my accomplice is a local new free software fan
<dtm> i have educated him myself
<derek> kewl
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<derek> been analyzing code red activity
Action: derek thinks if home.com and rr.com stopped services to Windows customers
<derek> the worm would stop
<derek> i.e. it looks like corporate america has plugged the hole, but broadband/dialup home users are propograting it faster than ever, eating up bandwidth
<derek> sad thing is it appears @home has shut off port 80
<derek> which prevents any further machines on its network from being exploited or infected
<derek> HOWEVER it does NOT prevent machines on its network from infecting others
<derek> which too me seems faulty
<derek> i.e. protect thier customers and screw the world
<derek> at least with port 80 opened maybe some of those machines would be hacked or notified that they are propogated like bastard children
<derek> this worm is very interesting to see how quickly something can spread and how hard it is to 'quarantine'
<jamest> :)
<ToyMan> I'm listening in to the admins @ the freebsd channel
<ToyMan> and their logging > 5,000 code red hits in an 8hour period
<ToyMan> per server
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<chillywilly> re
<derek> i believe it in august
<derek> dneighbo@gatekeeper:/var/log/apache/vhost$ grep default.ida *access_log | wc
<derek>    2911   29110 1449112
<derek> dneighbo@gatekeeper:/var/log/apache/vhost$ 
<chillywilly> hey I got a couple code red hits when I was running apache the other day
<derek> dneighbo@ash:/var/log/apache$ grep default.ida access.log | wc
<derek>    1410   14100  629756
<derek> dneighbo@ash:/var/log/apache$ 
<chillywilly> I felt special or something
<derek> so why not 5000+
<derek> still significant number of hits
<derek> must go to work
<derek> bye bye
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<ra3vat> hi all
<madlocke> hi ra3vat
<madlocke> jamest: question as usual: you have some time? ;)
<chillywilly> hey ra3vat
<jamest> i'll be choppy
<jamest> but shoot
<ra3vat> hello guys :)
<madlocke> jamest: ok first thing... i now have something that can generate some html from gfds...
<madlocke> jamest: but to do it well gnuef needs some changes...
<madlocke> jamest: wait have to look...
<madlocke> jamest: i tried to use as much code as possible of current cvs gnuef
<madlocke> jamest: in GFInstance there is
<madlocke> jamest: an activate method that
<madlocke> jamest: constructs the user interface and starts
<madlocke> jamest: the main loop
<madlocke> jamest: this is bad because using the interfaces from a web part
<madlocke> jamest: i need to be able to initialize alls structures/classes
<madlocke> jamest: without entering a main loop
<madlocke> jamest: i wrote a little plugin for webware
<madlocke> jamest: you can enter a url with a gfd file and the form is displayed
<jamest> madlocke: wait
<madlocke> jamest: ok
<jamest> are you using HEAD cvs
<jamest> or the branch?
<madlocke> i don't have write access i think...
<madlocke> did'nt change anything in cvs...
<madlocke> just wanted to say i am using code from cvs not the tar ball i sent you
<madlocke> cvs path: anoncvs@subversions.gnu.org:/home/cvs if i remember correctly...
<madlocke> did not specify any branch...
<madlocke> ok?
<jamest> it's not that
<madlocke> ?
<jamest> it's that the datasource branch impacted alot of stuff
<jamest> one thing was initialization of the system (entirely different)
<jamest> and login support
<jamest> (entirely different)
<madlocke> erm ah...
<madlocke> ok... you tell me the switch i need for checkout
<jamest> i _think_ we may have solved the problem you speak of
<jamest> madlocke: btw , this is too cool (your web interface)
<jamest> getting you url for cvs instructions
<chillywilly> hey where is the GNU page at?
<chillywilly> for GNUe
<jamest> www.gnu.org/projects/gnue
<jamest> madlocke: http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/
<jamest> having small fire here
<madlocke> jamest: already reading it thx...
<jamest> sure
<jamest> do a cvs status -v setup.py in the gnuef dir
<jamest> and look for the branch name
<jamest> I'd tell you myself
<chillywilly> you always have to maintain those 2 pages right?
<jamest> but cvs seems broken for me (doesn't accept my password anymore)
<jamest> chillywilly: we should maintain them yes
<chillywilly> cause gnu can't handle the php?
<jamest> right
<jamest> and the web guildelines require those pages be viewable via things like lynx
<chillywilly> and the way they want things to look?
<chillywilly> I am on the dotGNU website list ans they wanna use this http://www.freedevelopers.net/forum
<chillywilly> yeah
<chillywilly> I think what they wanted to do was use this perl scrupt
<chillywilly> to process xml
<chillywilly> or some goofy thing
<chillywilly> to get both html 4.x and 2.0 complient web pages
<chillywilly> just looking at what you guys do...I knew that you maintained 2 pages
<chillywilly> just didn't know where the GNU one was
<madlocke>    Existing Tags:
<madlocke>         gnuef-new-datasources-2         (revision: 1.35)
<madlocke>         gnuef-new-datasources-1         (revision: 1.35)
<madlocke>         gnuef-new-datasources           (branch: 1.35.2)
<madlocke>         gnuef-0-0-8                     (revision: 1.27)
<madlocke>         gnuef-0-0-7                     (revision: 1.17)
<madlocke>         gnuef-0-0-6                     (revision: 1.13)
<madlocke>         gnuef-0-0-5                     (revision: 1.8)
<madlocke>         guilogin-unstable-0-1-0         (branch: 1.5.2)
<madlocke> jamest: talking about gnue-new-datasources? without a number?
<jamest> gnuef-new-datasources
<jamest> yip, check that one out, the numbered ones are tags I made after merging head changes back into the branch
<chillywilly> why didn't you name the branch tag with -branch at the end?
Action: chillywilly is nitpicking
<madlocke> jamest: yes this one is better, because now it is ok to use an empty main loop and use GFInstance._ui for ui access
<madlocke> jamest: what i like in webware is a SubclassResponsibilityError exception
<jamest> chillywilly: cause none of us are cvs mastas so we learn as we go 
<madlocke> jamest: it is used when you need to overwrite a method...
<chillywilly> jamest: aaaah, but I learned branhc management just the other day
<jamest> madlocke: is webware going to let you interface to existing clients
<jamest> chillywilly: you're just a stud god he-man then
<chillywilly> nope
<jamest> chillywilly: I'm just a weeny python coder 
<chillywilly> just going by thr book
<chillywilly> anyhow what did you merge?
<chillywilly> HEAD into branch?
<chillywilly> or branch into HEAD
<madlocke> jamest: maybe i am not understanding you right. what kind of clients are you talking of?
<jamest> madlocke: sorry, webware will allow for a new driver using existing GFObjects crap
<jamest> ?
<madlocke> jamest: yes...
<jamest> basically a UIwebware.py (over simplified I'm sure)
<madlocke> jamest: i did it that way
<jamest> too cool
<madlocke> jamest: that's exactly the name i gave the file ;)
<chillywilly> jamest: I think everyone does it different though, like if you look in the book mozilla does the fly fish method or whatever where you freeze the branch and merge into head
<jamest> I think we use the leap before you look method (headfirst variation)
<jamest> next time I think we will just branch at releases
<jamest> as this is major pain in the but
<jamest> butt
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<jamest> so anyway as long as he doesn't find out before it's too late we'll have our revenge
<jamest> er, um, hi dneighbo
Action: ToyMan is away: ToyMan is going for his afternoon swim...
<dneighbo> hey jamest
<dneighbo> dare i not read the logs ;)
<dneighbo> jamest: there is no gnue-public.log
<dneighbo> which the web page says there is for 'todays' log
<dneighbo> we probably should make that happen
<jamest> um
<jamest> i didn't write that page
<jamest> so it doesn't count :)
Action: jamest fears that if he makes the setup reflect what the site says then masta will start adding more pages to the site describing new features 
<dneighbo> i did original page
<dneighbo> and had pointed to gnue.org logs
<dneighbo> you or someone (maybe me) change the url to gnuenterprise.org
<dneighbo> when gnuebot was misbehaving :)
<jamest> gnue designer lets you run your entire business and your compeditors business (if he's running WinXX based solutions) from the comfort of your desktop via a simple to use neural interface
<dneighbo> huh?
Action: madlocke has to go see his doctor... don't have neural interface yet ;)
Action: dneighbo thinks thats good marketing material and is going to scrible that down :)
<jamest> argh!
<jamest> as for the logs thing
<jamest> i'll put it on my mentel pile of ignorance, er, todo list
<jamest> mental
<dneighbo> rofl
<madlocke> enter your account number and gnue manages business... time by time you get account balance to see how money gets more and more...
<dneighbo> madlocke is the new gnue worm
<dneighbo> Code Put You In The Red
<dneighbo> it infects you and wires money to gnue
<dneighbo> and propogates
<dneighbo> it depletes all funds until your ledger balance hits a negative number
<dneighbo> then stops and sleeps until there is positive cash flow
<dneighbo> its not often talked about
<madlocke> lol
<dneighbo> but it is the REAL cause of teh declining economy
<dneighbo> the dot coms went bust due to Code Put You In The Red
Action: madlocke has to go... cu
<jamest> l8r
<dneighbo> later
Action: jamest has to cry
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Action: dneighbo grabs buckets for the tears
<jamest> his shiney new firewall raid setup just exploded into an unbootable mess
Action: jamest won't mention what he was doing to raid config before it happend
<chillywilly> did dneighbo leave?
<jamest> um
<jamest> he was just here a sec ago
<dneighbo> im here
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<jamest> dneighbo: btw madlock has a webware based gnuef UIdriver that is displaying forms
<jamest> madlocke
<dneighbo> cool
<chillywilly> a web forms client?
<chillywilly> what s webware?
<chillywilly> s/s/is
<dneighbo> another dependency
<dneighbo> http://webware.sourceforge.net/
<chillywilly> aaah
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Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy
<dneighbo> does anyone else find it 'disturbing' that 
<dneighbo> 5 of 7 of sourceforges top downloaded projects run on windows ONLY
<dneighbo> and the 2 that do run on linux also run on windows
<Mr_You> not really.. it has the most market share..
<dneighbo> i know
<dneighbo> i said disturbing
<dneighbo> no suprising :)
<Mr_You> its odd to me
<Mr_You> yeah
Action: Mr_You wishes someone WOULD release a worm that fixes Code Red
<dneighbo> not that ALL 7 are under the GPL
<dneighbo> i do now see why Microsoft is disturbed
<dneighbo> windows users are getting it
<dneighbo> as are windows developers
<Mr_You> they are up shit creek
<dneighbo> they may not be in position to switch operating systems for one reason or another
<dneighbo> but enough developers are writing quality software for thier platform that it doesnt matter :)
<dneighbo> i.e. quality GPL software
<dneighbo> and looking at top 10
<dneighbo> all 10 are GPL
<dneighbo> all 10 run on windows
<dneighbo> 5 run windows only
<dneighbo> and 5 are os indpendent
Action: dneighbo finds statistics interesting
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:15:21)
<jamest> i think we see the world a bit differently than most however
<jamest> alot of people I talk to don't know anything about GPL
<jamest> they've heard of GNU/Linux
<jamest> but that's about it
<jamest> the reaction from mgmnt today is still
<jamest> need something == whip out checkbook 
<jamest> and recent experiences with consultants have me thinking that the ones with credentials are pushing the old model
<jamest> as it helps lock in their customer
<jamest> you absolutely must be Foo10 Certified to be worth anything
<jamest> and anyone with Foo10 certification can tell you that free stuff isn't worth crap
<jamest> and mgmnt sees the pretty foo10 cert and thinks these are highly trained professionals
<jamest> so they must be right
<nickr> that reminds me\
<nickr> a friend of mine's company is paying 70 grand for a citrix based solution. I thought it was a little expensive.
<nickr> especially since all the functionality they want is the remote desktop stuff.
<jamest> :)
<nickr> I'm sure theres a lot of contractor money in that figure too
<jamest> brb
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<Mr_You> yeah remote desktop stuff for wincrap is spensive
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<jamest> for everyone that thinks I'm a stinking KDE lover.....
<jamest> KDE _hates_ my omniview keyboard/monitor switch
<Mr_You> thats odd
<jamest> gnome didn't
<Mr_You> I wonder why the wm/desktop has anything to do with that
<jamest> i don't have a clue
<jamest> but I lose hotkeys and eventually app launching on this system after flipping back and forth alot
<jamest> i don't have these problems when I don't
<Mr_You> new KDE is coming out IIRC
<jamest> if it's not a .deb I won't update
Action: jamest is getting lazy in old age
<chillywilly> well there's a new Gnome too
<chillywilly> so there
<chillywilly> 1.4.1
<chillywilly> :P
<Mr_You> so there?
<Mr_You> god I'm going crazy
<chillywilly> teasing
<chillywilly> I hate KDE
Action: dneighbo remembers when chillywilly was a KDE lover with ole ajmitch :)
<chillywilly> not reallly
<chillywilly> I switched back and forth all the time until I got sick of one
<chillywilly> but now I am too much the GNU zealot
<chillywilly> plus I am running bleeding edge Gnome and it rocks
<dneighbo> with gnome is there a NON bleeding version ;)
<dneighbo> http://linux.com/interact/potd.phtml?potd_id=86
<dneighbo> i found that funny
<jamest> :)
<dneighbo> so jamest what is our excuse ;)
<jamest> um...serious sam?
<jamest> i dunno
<chillywilly> hey masta can I still hitch a ride from Arizona for LWE...hehe
<jamest> unlimited pr0n downloads for $5.95 a month?
<dneighbo> ah
Action: jamest doesn't want to admit it's really a lack of m4d sk1lz
<dneighbo> sure
<dneighbo> still long walk from milwauke to phoenix though :)
<chillywilly> I have a car
<chillywilly> it'll make it
<chillywilly> (I hope)
<chillywilly> what the hell there's always thumbing it
<chillywilly> :o
Action: ToyMan is away: Toyman is back from his swim...
<jamest> argh!
Action: jamest missed a critical module in his new kernel
<jamest> must now rebuild it on a p133
<chillywilly> jamest: did you use make-kpkg ?
<chillywilly> because it rocks ya know
<chillywilly> kernel debs kick butt
<jamest> yip
<jamest> i did
<jamest> however that doesn't help the fact that she's so sllllooooowwwww
<jamest> :)
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<jamest> the world is a sad, sad place
<jamest> i just received replacement laptop battery for a dell here
<jamest> it came with battery replacement instructions
<dneighbo> rofl
<nickr> dell can't help it if most its customers are morons
<dneighbo> hey now
<nickr> Okay
<nickr> dell can't help it if most of its customers are ignorant technophobes. :)
<Mr_You> most people that couldn't replace the battery probably couldn't read or even realize they have instructions on it ;-)
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<chillywilly> wassup my homies
<jamest> just chill'n wif my pc
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> werd
<chillywilly> I am now at the gf's house ;)
<chillywilly> gonna try mgetyy+sendfax as hylafax suck and when I looked at the debian bug page the bugs report for it were 3 1/2 years old
<chillywilly> er, mgetty
<dneighbo> MicahY hello
<dneighbo> i can not get information about conference passes
<dneighbo> i have stack of like 300 free exhibit only ones
<dneighbo> it would still be a blast to come down only for exhibits i would imagine fi you can afford it
<dneighbo> but choice is yours
<chillywilly> afford schamord just stow away on a plane or something, that's what I'm gonna do
<chillywilly> :P
Action: chillywilly is gonna be in the cargo bay area ;)
<MicahY> hi derek.......
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<MicahY> dunno, would be fun but I probably better not....
<MicahY> I think I'll go to VA in October and possibly Chile in November so I better not tack on another trip. :)
<MicahY> anyway, I'm trying to get the CVS gnue forms working again.....
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<MicahY> ImportError: No module named GFClient  
<MicahY> PYTHONPATH=/home/micah/gnue-cvs 
<MicahY> [micah@eclipse gnue-cvs]$ ll gnue/forms/GFClient*
<MicahY> -rw-rw-r--    1 micah    micah        4393 Jul  2 13:54 gnue/forms/GFClient.py
<MicahY> so I don't see why it's not finding it. Any ideas?
<Mr_You> derek
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<MicahY> I think that's how I had it working several months ago
<MicahY> BTW: I have ./gnue/forms as a symlink to gnue/gnuef/src
<MicahY> I dunno if that's how you all do it, but I had it working before and it seems to make sense
<MicahY> should keep python and CVS both happy
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<dneighbo> hi stan
Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<sklein> hi derek
<dneighbo> MicahY : dont know cant look at it right away
<sklein> I finally got on
<dneighbo> i think jamest checked in the evil merge last night
<dneighbo> so cvs HEAD is probably ouchie
<dneighbo> if he did there should be a tag out there
<dneighbo> of before the merge
<MicahY> hmmm.  I think I tried it 2 - 3 weeks ago and it also didn't work
<MicahY> but python simply isn't finding GFClient.py and I have no idea why not....
<dneighbo> how did you install it?
<dneighbo> shouldnt really have to make your own symlinks and stuff
<MicahY> setup.py build and install
<dneighbo> setup.py devel
<MicahY> yeah did that too
<dneighbo> is the preferred way to make it work with cvs
<MicahY> hmm. maybe I'll clear the pythonpath variable.
<MicahY> no that didn't do it
<MicahY> (I had been trying to point Python at the CVS src directory)
<dneighbo> i guess im lost to what the problem is and what you are trying to do
<MicahY> me too.  But I'm just trying to run gfclient.  :)
<MicahY> hmm do I need to install gnue-common......
<jamest> merge didn't happen last night
<jamest> as everything is broken
<MicahY> I think I did previously but it looks like there's more stuff there....
<sklein> MicahY:  I had it running about a month ago and I remember there might have been another glitch beside installing with devel but I can't remember what it was
<sklein> stale from all the travel etc.
<Mr_You> derek read msgs
<sklein> Mr_You:  I heard some really good jazz guitar at the CT festival
<MicahY> ok did the same install for gnue-common.  still the same
<Mr_You> cool
<dneighbo> paste the error here again
<MicahY> [micah@eclipse gnue-cvs]$ gfclient
<MicahY> Traceback (innermost last):
<MicahY>   File "/usr/local/bin/gfclient", line 40, in ?
<MicahY>     from  gnue.forms.GFClient import *
<MicahY> ImportError: No module named GFClient
<jamest> MicahY: to run devel do
<jamest> setup.py devel
<jamest> in the gnuef dir
<sklein> MicahY:  I think the other glitch had something to do with the files in the config directory.  It was something that might not have been fully documented at the time
<jamest> and the error you're reporting should be fixed in current cvs both head and branch
<jamest> you need to have the /usr/local/gnue/etc/gnue.conf and connection.conf files
<jamest> regardless (yes, it is a bug)
<sklein> BTW, the config files can be in /home/yourdirectory
<jamest> well, in /home/yourdir/.gnue
<MicahY> jamest: yes, I did run devel, after build and install
<MicahY> connection.conf?
<MicahY> I'm not seeing that in the CVS checkout (just co'd it a half hour ago)
<sklein> MicahY:  I think it's created by the install or by you
Action: chillywilly is away: eat
<MicahY> well anyway this may not even have to do with gnue
<MicahY> it seems to be a basic silly python thing
<sklein> MicahY:  There are some seemingly silly python things that are gnue issues
<MicahY> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<MicahY> I may have gotten it
<MicahY> export PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/gnue/lib/python 
<MicahY> now it gets farther. :-)
<sklein> If you're using /usr/local, there may be a file you need to put in where the python libraries are to tell python to look there also
<sklein> I forget how it works, but it's documented in the python stuff somewhere, in the distutils, I think
<Mr_You> set PYTHONPATH I think
<Mr_You> PYTHONLIBPATH?
<Mr_You> oh duh
<Mr_You> heh
<Mr_You> yeah you gotta set that..
<jamest> MicahY: parts of gnuef are generated automaticaaly to deal with an odd install
<sklein> no, it's a file you give a special name and in it list the additional places
<jamest> if you try to do by hand it can get you
<Mr_You> it might be good to add the pythonpath script at the beginning of any python scripts that require it to eliminate that problem.
<sklein> that's probably the best solution overall -- to have a pythonpath script
<sklein> in the code
<MicahY> Now, when I use a form that gets to a DB table:
<MicahY> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages/pgdb.py", line 61, in ?
<MicahY> DB000:     import DateTime
<MicahY> DB000: ImportError: No module named DateTime
<MicahY> it used to work with this form a few months ago
<jamest> :)
<jamest> not any more
<jamest> look in the FAQ
<jamest> for an entry dealing the needing different dateTime
<jamest> it's an issue with the pygresql driver
<MicahY> ah, OK. :)
<jamest> they require something in their python DB API2.0 different than what python provides
<jamest> and the new postgresql driver is using DB API 2 interface now
<MicahY> of course I haven't upgraded the pygres driver.......
<jamest> it's not that
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:13:07)
<jamest> pygresql had to modules
<jamest> one was their custom API, the other was the DB API 2.0 compliant API
<jamest> when we switched to the DB API 2.0 module it has the issue
<jamest> if you really don't want to fight finding missing piece
<jamest> then IIRC you can edit the DBdriver.py for postgresql
<sklein> dneighbo:  I'm trying to get back to chipping away at the business process/menu system.  I have a concept but I'm finding the programming difficult.  I plan to keep chipping away, but would it be worthwhile to provide my concept as a proposal?
<jamest> and change the import pgdb.py to import pg.py 
<jamest> IIRC
<chillywilly> hey can you fax  postscript file?
<sklein> chillywilly:  some faxes do (or did)
<jamest> chillywilly: hylafax can, IIRC i used gs to convert from ps to fax format
<chillywilly> I should test this first
<chillywilly> anyone have a fax machine close to them?
<jamest> chillywilly: nope
<MicahY> GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA mozilla just crashed!
<MicahY> first time in a month I think!
Action: chillywilly prefers galeon
<chillywilly> hylafax sucks to setup
<chillywilly> with the gfax I just run the druid
<MicahY> jamest: thanks.  Didn't see that in your FAQ though. :)
<chillywilly> and it sets up mgetyy+sendfax
<chillywilly> er, mgetty
<jamest> MicahY: it's not in there?
<MicahY> never mind. I see it's in the FAQ in CVS
<MicahY> I was looking at the web site. :)
<jamest> :)
<chillywilly> I think it will work if you set ghostscript up correctly
<sklein> I guess derek must have stepped away
<sklein> well, I have an evening meeting and need to eat and get ready.  Bye all.
<dneighbo> im here just getting yelled at
<sklein> dneighbo: did you see my note above?
<dneighbo> no i didnt
<dneighbo> and i cant scroll back
<dneighbo> as every time someone posts something it drops me back to beginning
Action: dneighbo dislikes bitchx
<dneighbo> yes worthwhile
<dneighbo> to submit concept
<sklein> OK, will do.
<sklein> bye all
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<chillywilly> why can't you scroll back dude?
<chillywilly> you on winders ssh'd into a GNU/Linux box?
<Mr_You> http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_365440.html?menu=news.latestheadlines
<Mr_You> funny guy
<Mr_You> I was looking for a job and came across one that uses Debian
<chillywilly> cool
<dneighbo> chillywilly yes, 
<dneighbo> but i CAN scroll back
<dneighbo> just when someone types tehn it throws me back to bottom
<chillywilly> ah
<Mr_You> hit CTRL-S first... then CTRL-Q when done
<chillywilly> it shouldn't do that
<dneighbo> honestly
<dneighbo> its not worth learning more commands
<chillywilly> Send the named g3 fax files to the fax machine at "phone number". The g3  files  can  be
<chillywilly>        created with pbm2g3(1) or GNU's GhostScript with the "digifax" driver.
<chillywilly> how do I know if I have the "digifax" driver
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<nickr> if you need to test it I have a fax number you can send it to
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<chillywilly> hi neilt
<neilt> hello cw
<neilt> an all
Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy
<dneighbo> hey neilt how is life?
<dneighbo> http://www.cioinsight.com/sections/feature/index.asp?Issue=01&Section=&Article=outsourcing&Page=06
<dneighbo> good outsourcing figures
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<neilt> hey, derek, have another victim
<neilt> eeeeeerrrr developer
<neilt> dneighbo: you here?
<dneighbo> im here
<dneighbo> only one
<neilt> just sent email for you to send assignment papers
<dneighbo> we have had two companies offer to be case studies on info list this week :)
<neilt> what are case studies?
<dneighbo> um partnerships
<neilt> cool
<dneighbo> with documented educational purpose
<dneighbo> company A says that looks cool but we are scared
<dneighbo> no one else has done it yet
<dneighbo> we say ok lets do a case study
<dneighbo> we will learn and walk together
<dneighbo> and document the vitories
<dneighbo> and use in press and trade mags
<dneighbo> you as the customer get to in case study say how great your choices were and why you are better off
<dneighbo> we get to say how we were able to change your lives :)
<neilt> excellent
<neilt> but scarry
<dneighbo> and when its bumpy we both remember its a 'case study'
<dneighbo> yeah thats it :)
<neilt> 2tier or n-tier
<neilt> to do that we would need to have core of people commit a fixed about of time/week
<neilt> so we could make a project schedule and have any hope of sticking to it
<dneighbo> yes
<dneighbo> both of these were general interest
<dneighbo> on stated wanted to replace current solution in next 2-3 years
<dneighbo> which is ideal for us
<neilt> that is good
<dneighbo> the other one is probably more agressive but hasnt really responded back
<dneighbo> ToyMan is willing ot case study as well
<dneighbo> i have started a conversion to postgres from access on his goodies
<dneighbo> it is good scenario as well
<dneighbo> actually about perfect
<dneighbo> gnue is primed up that is for sure
<dneighbo> i think jcater has a two tier live
<dneighbo> hopefully will do press release sometime this month on that
Action: neilt wonders about geas ever getting used
<dneighbo> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/templates/config_templates.pdf
<dneighbo> who wrote this?
<neilt> stan
<neilt> klein
<dneighbo> neilt it will get used
<dneighbo> methods are teh key
<dneighbo> as with out methods its kind of an expensive database server :)
<neilt> is cw serious about working on methods
<dneighbo> performance wise
<neilt> or do we need to relook at this
<dneighbo> jamest is in process of merging branch back into
<dneighbo> HEAD
<dneighbo> then we can look at the drivers for geas in forms
<neilt> cool
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<dneighbo> chillywilly you are in trouble
<chillywilly> why?
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<dneighbo> neilt tackle him
<neilt> i did last time he was on
<neilt> and it was an issue of time
<dneighbo> ill slap the straight jacket on him
<chillywilly> nooo
Action: chillywilly runs
<chillywilly> yes, I know I suck
Action: dneighbo watches for the fallout of running 51ft on a 50 chain to the ankle
<neilt> chillywilly: it seems that methods are now the central blaming reason for not having more interest in geas
<chillywilly> yay!
<neilt> so i was asking derek if we need to get you some help
<dneighbo> i wouldnt say central as in sole
<neilt> will it was the one reason you mentioned :)
<dneighbo> the main issue is forms and geas dont work together in unision
<dneighbo> so its not much incentive
<dneighbo> the two reasons they dont work together
<dneighbo> is
<dneighbo> a. no solid forms geas driver w/ full features
<dneighbo> b. no method code in geas 
<dneighbo> a and b are EQUAL blame :)
<neilt> chillywilly: so the question remains, is there any way we can help speed up methods stuff?
<dneighbo> a driver could be started that enhanced current functionality w/o getting into methods (but method support in driver is necessar)
<chillywilly>  yeah, get me a job and finish this thing for me...and....
<dneighbo> but if methods were available other projects not wanting to use forms might be more likely to use
<chillywilly> tell those damn FD people to finish the forum
<chillywilly> ;)
<dneighbo> and hopefully would spark greater incentive from forms developers to get geas driver working
<chillywilly> tell Tony to stop emailing me every day
<chillywilly> or just clone me
<chillywilly> and tell gafx to let me send this fucking fax
<chillywilly> er, gfax
<neilt> dneighbo: looks like you have some options here
<dneighbo> dude send me a poscript file
<dneighbo> i will print it
<dneighbo> and fax where you need it faxed
<neilt> dneighbo: so how much methods code do we get for a fax ;)
<dneighbo> actually send it pdf and will route via fax for you
<dneighbo> i would email tony, but then that woudl cause a war
<dneighbo> as technically just talking to chilly is unethical of me
<dneighbo> because you see tony OWNS anyone who contributes to FD and if you talk to HIS developers you are STEALING them. ;)
<neilt> later all
<chillywilly> oh man
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<dneighbo> later ne
<chillywilly> yeah, you and him don't see eye to eye
<dneighbo> chillywilly i was of course making fun there
<chillywilly> ;)
<dneighbo> but seriously i will fax that thing for you
<dneighbo> to put you out of your misery if you like
<chillywilly> well I ma now compiling gfax form cvs
<chillywilly> from
<chillywilly> thing is
<chillywilly> it tells me Ai cannot fax
<chillywilly> so somehow
<chillywilly> I have to setup mgetty+sendfax to let me fax
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<chillywilly> grrr
<chillywilly> of course the damn thing does not compile
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<chillywilly> I have a faxmodem
<chillywilly> it should fax for me
<chillywilly> adgnabit
<chillywilly> er, dagnabit
Action: MicahY got gforms running with the database finally
<MicahY> getting the new DateTime and pygresql happy was a pain in the arse
Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch
<dneighbo> yeah
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<dneighbo> that mxDateTime thing is a pain
<MicahY> well the worst part was the pygres upgrade
<MicahY> first I got a beta, thinking it was the latest
<MicahY> and its scripts were completely broken
<MicahY> then I read the Announcements and it gave a URL for the final!
<MicahY> and it worked
<MicahY> also there was some old garbage from my previous GNUe install
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<chillywilly> ok, I got it to work but now the number just rings and rings
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<chillywilly> do people usually turn off their fax machine when they go home?
<ra3vat> chillywilly: usually no
<chillywilly> ra3vat: you got a fax machine I can test?
<chillywilly> :P
<ajmitch> chillywilly: i do ;)
<chillywilly> really?
<ajmitch> not mine, of course ;)
<ajmitch> but do you really want to dial international rates?
<chillywilly> I dunno
<chillywilly> not from here
<chillywilly> I am at Caroline's
<ajmitch> yeah, this place has a fax machine that students can receive faxes on (it's on the office here, so nothing offensive or silly please ;) )
<ajmitch> i am not sure of the number tho
<chillywilly> I would send gnu.txt ;)
<chillywilly> that may be offensive to some people
<ajmitch> lol
<ajmitch> you would have to make sure it was clearly addressed to me
<chillywilly> you could just stand there and see if it comes through
<nickr> chillywilly: you can send me a fax
<ra3vat> chillywilly: you could send anything on mine result will be known tomorrow
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<dneighbo> hi jamest_ 
<dneighbo> well all must run to LUG meeting
<dneighbo> will be on there if hub is present for internet routing
<dneighbo> otherwise be back at like 10pm AZ time
<dneighbo> l8r
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<chillywilly> \I;m back
<chillywilly> er, I'm
<chillywilly> nickr: you got a fax machine?
<dtm> chillywilly: i have outgoing fax via hylafax; haven't gotten around to incoming ;)
<dtm> i tried but it doesn't answer
<dtm> well, i'm pretty sure it doesn't.
<dtm> hmmm
<chillywilly> I wanna test outgoing fax
<chillywilly> I was using gfax + mgetty+sedfax
<chillywilly> hylafax debs sucked
<chillywilly> the faxsetup script was looking in the wrong places
<chillywilly> anyway
<chillywilly> I must take scotty outside
<chillywilly> to pay baseball
<chillywilly> before it gets too dark
<jamest_> have fun
<chillywilly> bye
<chillywilly> :)
Action: chillywilly is away: going outside to play
<dtm> i'm not sure if i'd discount hylafax because its debs use a displeasing filesystem setup :)
<dtm> it's the best afaik
<dtm> or perhaps it's just different
<jamest_> its powerfull
<dtm> it's a complete desktop client/server system
<jamest_> and works well
<jamest_> my users _hate_ gfax though
<dtm> i have it so i can print anything from macos, to a fax preview/setup app, and then send it to my linux fax server
<dtm> which is extremely cool
<dtm> jamest: is gfax a gnome interface of what
<dtm> s/of/or/
<dtm> jamest: do you use hylafax?
<jamest_> it has a module that replaces lpr
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<jamest_> then sending lpr -Pfax pops up a GUI phone book/fax app
<dtm> cool.
<dtm> hehe
<jamest_> my users _hate_ it
<dtm> why's that :)
<dtm> so it's a gnome interface?
<jamest_> say it takes way too many clicks to get from the main window
<dtm> too many clicks!  the horror!
<jamest_> to actually picking and number and faxing
<dtm> are these peole super heavy faxers?
<jamest_> also claim it's error reporting sucks
<dtm> like salespeople or something
<jamest_> yes
<dtm> too bad
<dtm> :/
<jamest_> purchasing agent is one
<dtm> we used hylafax at VA
<jamest_> went back to printing the POs 
<dtm> tk-hylafax
<jamest_> and faxing by hand
<dtm> geeeeez
<dtm> ok so does that actually make sense?
<jamest_> also claim the error reporting sucks
<jamest_> I myself don't know cause I don't work full time at that place
<jamest_> and I get the text error reports
<dtm> is it actually better for the purchasing agent :)
<dtm> to manually fax?
<jamest_> which gives me all the info I need normally
<dtm> it might be more mentally digestible for some people if they have a short enough techno-attentionspan
<jamest_> i don't know
<jamest_> i just know they hate it
<jamest_> and I'm going to have to probably construct the sendfax command line by hand
<jamest_> via database lookups of vendor fax numbers
<jamest_> if I'm going to get them to switch over
<dtm> :/
<dtm> so they're using linux desktops eh?
<jamest_> it's a 100% linux shop
<dtm> kick ass
<jamest_> they killed their last windows box
<dtm> :-o
<jamest_> until UPS set one up for shipping
Action: dtm shakes jamest's hand
<jamest_> :(
<dtm> yeah
<jamest_> funny thing today
<dtm> UPS and accounting are usually the kickers
<jamest_> UPS networked it
<dtm> but that's what VMware and VIrtualPC are for
<dtm> and VNC
<jamest_> and the "tech" couldn't get to the network 
<dtm> hm
<jamest_> seems nothing was showing up in network neighborhood
<jamest_> :)
<dtm> uhh
<dtm> ok so you have no smb network, so he saw nothing in network neighborhood, so he declared your network dead?
<dtm> or what
<dtm> :)
<jamest_> yip, but they could surf the web
<jamest_> :)
<dtm> geee imagine that
<dtm> dude it fills me with happiness and joy just to hear that
<jamest_> i'd killed samba with the death of the windows box
<dtm> and now i must call the police about prevention of domestic violence :/
<dtm> great
<dtm> i'm proud of ya man
<jamest_> well, lately they are wanting gnue type software
<jamest_> and eyeballing windows
<jamest_> so I've got to get cracking!
<jamest_> :)
<jamest_> funny thing is
<jamest_> I'd left the windows box there 
<jamest_> they got rid of it not me
<jamest_> however, and this isn't meant as a slam
<jamest_> gnome is pissing them off
<jamest_> they're all gnome and their new tech savy user is right in saying that the machines are too slow
<jamest_> so we're going to try more memory (96 MB now), and probably (gasp) KDE or at least konqueror as netscape is upsetting them
<dtm> hmm
<dtm> geeez
<dtm> yeah i had a minimum of 128MB per desktop system, 2.5 years ago
<dtm> that's silly
<dtm> i would encourage you to get that ram in there asap so as to defuse the matter
<dtm> a bit
<nickr> chillywilly: not a fax machine but a fax number
<jamest_> dude, windowmaker ran fine on those systems with 32MB of ram
<dtm> chillywilly: oh, you can get a onebox account.  i have one.
<dtm> chillywilly: you can receive faxes fine there
<dtm> chillywilly: http://onebox.com
<jamest_> i know gnome is heavier but damn
<dtm> chillywilly: that's how i tested mine
<nickr> thats what I have actually
<nickr> getting your own would probably be better, then it'd be local
<dtm> jamest: windowmaker and gnome are pretty much irrelevant -- 96MB is rather light for almost any productivity purpose at all
<jamest_> ???????
<dtm> it all depends on the user
<jamest_> i guess
<dtm> i'd deal with 96MB; i ran linuxppc on that for a while
<dtm> that's technically a lot of ram
Action: jamest_ must be too old school or something
<jamest_> ran most of a department on a Sun 4/330 (33MHz, 32MB of ram)
<dtm> but when you're multitasking large apps like netscape with several windows, and you're switching between them as that type of user would, that's different
<dtm> jamest: yeah i hear ya
<dtm> jamest: it's partially functional, partially psychological
<jamest_> with about 7 xterms on it
<jamest_> :)
<dtm> yeah i know, man
<dtm> i have a sparcstation2 which doesn't slow down
<jamest_> but at about $20 a pop
<jamest_> 128MB of ram is a cheap fix
<dtm> yeah
<dtm> cheap and quick
<dtm> seriously, it pains me to say that, too.
<dtm> :)
<dtm> because 96MB was supercomputer level , several years ago
<jamest_> lol
<jamest_> i downloaded cold fusion trial for linux
<dtm> but for those types of users, they are not only using more ram just for light use, they psychologically feel it more
<dtm> ;/
<jamest_> to look at as my new job is using it on NT
<dtm> jamest: :-o
<jamest_> it wants 256MB of ram minimum
<dtm> i'm very sorry
<jamest_> as am I
<dtm> indeed.
<jamest_> I keep thinking about my apache/postgresql/php setup at work
<jamest_> originally running 64MB of RAM
<dtm> jamest: i assume you campaigned against it?
<jamest_> I haven't started yet :)
<dtm> oh sheesh
<jamest_> but I will, trust me, I will
<dtm> better nail that one in the bud, man:)
<jamest_> all their web stuff is in cold fusion
<jamest_> BUT
<jamest_> they wanted someone with new ideas
<dtm> i'm recommending all desktop users to have at least 256mb ram now
<jamest_> boing!
<dtm> i recently upgraded that from 128 as i had said for the last 2yrs
<jamest_> don't tell my users that
<jamest_> it costs me money
<jamest_> :)
<dtm> jamest: oh does it?
<dtm> how's that
<dtm> dont you bill them for it :)
<jamest_> these are my real job users
<jamest_> not my part time job
Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy
<jamest_> I'm giving them 128MB
<dtm> on linux/gnome?
<jamest_> lol, some of them still run 16MB
<dtm> ooookay
<jamest_> I work for a university
<dtm> ah that explains some of it
<jamest_> my yearly budget is less than I paid for a novell server back in the early 90s
<dtm> universities are magical places, where a lot of work magically gets done on almost no resources
<jamest_> yip
<dtm> been there
Action: Mr_You recommends 128MB
<dtm> my first admin job was at a supercomputing center in Kansas
<dtm> we had bargain basement blowout supercomputers
<jamest_> dtm - where?
<dtm> http://www.css.ksu.edu
<jamest_> bwahahahahahaaha
<jamest_> the convex machines are being shut down
<jamest_> no one will fund them 
<dtm> they were awesome machines but the point is that we had to run them on minimal resources
<dtm> jamest: you know of these machines?
<jamest_> I'm jamest@math.ksu.edu :)
<Mr_You> apps that need 256MB are bloated big time 
<Mr_You> (lotus notes)
<jamest_> you worked for the rich department :)
<Mr_You> ;-)
<dtm> jamest: oh really?!
<dtm> jamest: heheh  yes i did
<dtm> jamest: we even could afford backups!
<dtm> h0h0
<dtm> jamest: but not backup software.
<dtm> jamest: wow, i minored in math there
<dtm> jamest: what a coincidence
<jamest_> lol
<dtm> jamest: how long have you been at ksu
<jamest_> how long ago?
<dtm> jamest: i was there in 1996; i wrote all the docs then
<dtm> many of them still being used
<jamest_> I was there in 96
<dtm> jamest: and then we got Rick Summerhill, the almighty admin
<dtm> jamest: oh wow  :)
<jamest_> lol
<dtm> jamest: well i was dtm then too!  do you remember me as the "friendly neighborhood sysadmin"  ;)
<dtm> jamest: or were you not in HECAV, aka CSS?
<jamest_> nope
<jamest_> I'm in math
<jamest_> full time employee not a student
<dtm> i see
<dtm> did you know the other CSS sysadmin, Jeff?
<jamest_> lol
<jamest_> huge NT lover
<dtm> the Microsoft apologist/henchman
<dtm> oh my goodness
<dtm> the likes of which i've never seen since
<jamest_> told me NT didn't need UPSs
<jamest_> as it had a journaled file system
<dtm> see, there was a reason why there was a huge campaign to fire him for years
<jamest_> he won btw
<dtm> do you know that there were people who specifically avoided all Convex use simply because he admin'd them?
<dtm> he won what
<jamest_> the unix/NT war
<jamest_> in physics
<dtm> i dont doubt it
<jamest_> told the electronic shop that samba was the cause of their NT problems
<dtm> he has a severe personality disorder
<jamest_> as least that's what mark or joe had mentioned to me
<jamest_> so anyway they are phasing out solaris
<dtm> one day, he ran across the room, screamed at me until his face was red, spitting on me, and then demanded me to get out of his sight.
<jamest_> brave for such a little guy
<dtm> sent emails to the dept admins telling them i was a damned liar
<dtm> yeah no kidding
<jamest_> we got along ok personally
<dtm> well that's not quite "bravery" -- scientists call it a disorder ;)
<jamest_> but I'm a die hard unix man
<dtm> so does he still work there?
<jamest_> nope, got phys to pay for his mcse and then jumped ship to konsult
<dtm> that's probably one of the best things that ever happened to that dept, then
<jamest_> nope
<jamest_> the damage was done
<dtm> well yeah, i mean all things considered ;)
<dtm> they were trying to fire him for years though
<jamest_> HEP has a linux cluster that the elec shop hates
<dtm> "hates"?  why?
<dtm> do you know a guy named Matt Baxa?
<jamest_> hey lets go to #gnue
<jamest_> so we don't bore these guys
<dtm> well they're not talking :)
<jamest_> they can join if they want to here gossip :)
<jamest_> hear
<dtm> they dont have to read it, but ok :)
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:50:28)
<chillywilly> jamest_: where are you working now?
<chillywilly> that it is a GNU/Linux shop?
Action: chillywilly was reading logs
<jamest_> i work for math at ksu
<jamest_> i work for a small local company as consultant
<jamest_> both are heavy unix 
<jamest_> math is huge into linux anymore
<chillywilly> isn't?
<jamest_> i fought to get that first linux box in there (my workstation)
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> so the small company is GNU/Linux?
<jamest_> recently bought 9 dells with windows tax
<jamest_> 6 of them never made it to their windows boot screen
<jamest_> 2 of them haven't been turn on at all yet :)
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<chillywilly> for KSU?
<chillywilly> hey derek
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o derek' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ
<derek> sup
<chillywilly> where the heck are you at?
<derek> um LUG meeting
<chillywilly> kewl
<chillywilly> man I can't reach ajbusy's web site
Action: chillywilly shakes ajbusy
Action: chillywilly slaps ajbusy around a bit
<derek> jamest you here?
<chillywilly> hmmm, how am I supposed to get this TOD list if I cant reach the his web site
<chillywilly> s/TOD/TODO
<jamest_> yes
Action: chillywilly is trying to scratch the FDForum off his list of stuff TODO
<derek> what is the location on fencepost where assignments are
<chillywilly> there we go
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<jamest_> pwd
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<derek> [ jamest@calvin ]$/go/to/hell/dude/
<jamest_>  /bin/rm -rf /
<chillywilly> eh?
<jamest_>  cp /dev/null /vmlinuz
<chillywilly> can't you guys play nice?
<chillywilly> :P
<jamest_>  /msg chillywilly shhhh I'm seeing what else I can get him to do
<chillywilly> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda
<jamest_>  echo > -@    
<chillywilly> what does that do?
<derek> rofl
<jamest_> it's annoying as hell
<chillywilly> and no I ain't gonan try it
<jamest_> it's wont hurt anything
<jamest_> but it makes a dir entry that's a bi0tch to get rid of
<chillywilly> just echos forver?
<chillywilly> aaaah
<chillywilly> oh ok
<jamest_> in fact
<jamest_> all my normal tricks for getting rid of it aren't working :)
<chillywilly> how do you remove it o UNIX god?
<chillywilly> hehe
<jamest_> typically I'd do a rm - -@
<chillywilly> I can't remove it either
<chillywilly> but
<jamest_> but that isn't working with -@
<chillywilly> nautilus will let me delete
<chillywilly> it
<jamest_> you sure?
<chillywilly> yep
<chillywilly> I cheated
<derek> how is the merge going?
<jamest_> slow
<jamest_> got an odd bug
<jamest_> and dtm is an old ksu'r 
<jamest_> so we got to talking
<derek> dtm is :)
<derek> sweet
<chillywilly> dtm went to ksu?
<derek> you can alumni in SF he is working the booth at SF for GNU
<jamest_> :)
<derek> chillywilly: usually they dont like to admit things like that ;)
<chillywilly> hehe
Action: chillywilly is a MSOE alumn
<derek> spending four years in kansas and all
<chillywilly> and damn proud of it
<chillywilly> http://www.msoe.edu
<derek> msoe = micro soft only engineer!
<derek> ;)
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> that is somewhat true
<chillywilly> they push M$ pretty hard
<chillywilly> didn't effect me though
<chillywilly> ehtica class formed me to look at what free software really menas
<chillywilly> and RMS changed my life forever
<chillywilly> ethics
<jamest_> or at least to you go senile
<jamest_> and forget which way is up, which way is right, and which way to the bathroom
<chillywilly> they used ot use digtal UNIx for a lot of stuff
<chillywilly> the UNIX admins run GNU/Linux though
<chillywilly> i fact
<chillywilly> s/i/in
<chillywilly> the guy who arranged the last MLUG meeting was the UNIX admin
<chillywilly> for MSOE
<chillywilly> and we had it at MSOE
<chillywilly> this saturday is our meeting
<derek> jamest_ you think its worth a release this weekend from the non branch
<derek> i.e. did you tag it
<chillywilly> btw, just so you guys know my fiance is having surgery tomorrow
<jamest_> derek: I haven't tagged it
<jamest_> chillywilly: problems?
<jamest_> chillywilly: or just that pain in the butt she can't seem to get rid of?
<jamest_> or wait, that doesn't require surgery does it :)
<derek> chillywilly: what is going oin
<chillywilly> endometriosis
<jamest_> what?
<chillywilly> look it up dude
<chillywilly> that's what the net is for ;0
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> or pr0n surfing
<jamest_> but i can't even spell endometriosis
<chillywilly> anyway
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> you really want me to explain it?
<chillywilly> it'sa female thing
<chillywilly> hold on
<chillywilly> I have alink
<chillywilly> fudge my link is broke
<chillywilly> http://www.endometriosis.org/
<jamest_> thanks
<jamest_> I had just found it via google
<jamest_> hope everything goes well
<chillywilly> Endometriosis is a condition where endometrium (the lining of the uterus) is found in locations outside the uterus.
<chillywilly> This misplaced tissue may be found on the ovaries, uterus, bowel, bladder utero-sacral ligaments (ligaments that hold the uterus in place), or peritoneum (covering lining of the pelvis and abdominal cavity). On rare occasions it can be found in other distant sites.
<jamest_> sounds sucky
<chillywilly> http://www.endometriosis.org/html/information.html
<chillywilly> it is painful
<chillywilly> you have to have sergery to diagnose it
<derek> mommie thats no fun
<chillywilly> anywho
<chillywilly> a plane crashed over at timmerman field
<chillywilly> guess were gonan go over there and be nosy
<chillywilly> gonna
<chillywilly> cya
<jamest_> l8r
Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy
<derek> l8r guys
<derek> what is that free vmware stuff you were running jamest
<derek> plex86?
<derek> bye bye
<jamest_> not running any yet
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<jamest_> plex86
Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch
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Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:17:15)
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<MicahY> any luck with plex86?
<jamest_> i have yet to try it
<MicahY> ok
<jamest_> you ever try it?
<MicahY> not yet.  downloaded it once but it scared me. :)
<jamest_> why?
<MicahY> install said something about screwing up the computer. :)
<MicahY> I just checked their web site.  Looks like no recent updates.
<jamest_> i noticed that
<jamest_> wonder if they're dead
<MicahY> I hope not
<jamest_> well, their mail archive is dead after june
<jamest_> whoops
<jamest_> I was wrong
<ajmitch> the project is still alive
<ajmitch> there have been cvs updates in the last few days
<jamest_> yip
<ajmitch> but the mail archive is down
<jamest_> cvs checkin on the 8th
<jamest_> it's labeled backwards
<jamest_> the "older" mail archive is the newer one
<jamest_> or I read it backwards
<jamest_> but the last mail is from the 8th of august
<MicahY> well as far as GNUe goes...
<MicahY> which would need more help, designer or reports?
<MicahY> I'll try to get into one of them again. :)
<jamest_> um
<jamest_> both
<jamest_> :)
<jamest_> reports is the furthest behind
<jamest_> so it could use work
<MicahY> ok. that's probably what I'd be most inclined towards anyway.
<MicahY> I'll try to get familiar with what's there over the next couple days.
<jamest_> ok
<jamest_> jcater has done the work here
<jamest_> so you'll prbabaly want to hook up w/ him
<jamest_> to see what's up
<jamest_> also the branch version is newer
<jamest_> if all goes well branch will be head tomorrow night
<jamest_> as I'm checking in merged stuff now
<MicahY> ok