chillywilly (baumannd@d67.as10.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy dneighbo (dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: [BX] Man and mouse alike, both end up in pussy reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (baumannd@d141.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dude my system is horked and these xfs woody floppies blow ajbusy (ajmitch@p4-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajbusy[p4-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz] ajbusy (ajmitch@p4-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. masta went bye bye uggh.. I thought there was a "custom CD/distro" type howto there should be I am gonna figure out how ot make some better floppies believe me ;) I am making my own base by grabbing all woddy base debs woody then after that I should be able to get ppp up the fucking module for that itel pocmcia dcontroller is missing from these shitty xfs disks too s/itel/intel that I am gonan try an borrow off of my laptop even thought it is kernel 2.4.8 I might be able to force it in there if I get the right pcmcia version this s just so much fun not! hey Mr_You you know f you can recover data that is in lost+found? nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: EOF from client nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. yeah? dtm_ (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr_You_ (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (baumannd@d141.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) got netsplit. dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) got netsplit. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) got netsplit. reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) got netsplit. Nick change: dtm_ -> dtm Possible future nick collision: dtm Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) got lost in the net-split. reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) got lost in the net-split. chillywilly (baumannd@d141.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) got lost in the net-split. reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (baumannd@d141.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: chillywilly pokes Mr_You with a stick Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch yeah? Mr_You_ (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: night oh dude I was wondering if it is possible to recover ata from lost+found s/ata/data eugene (eugene@194.84.60.1) joined #gnuenterprise. dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error to dres[4.18.171.42]: Connection reset by peer chillywilly (baumannd@d141.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: eugene (eugene@194.84.60.1) left irc: Read error to eugene[194.84.60.1]: EOF from client eugene (eugene@194.84.60.1) joined #gnuenterprise. eugene (eugene@194.84.60.1) left #gnuenterprise. Nick change: ajmitch -> ajzzzz chillywilly (danielb@d62.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d62.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: yay no more winders!!! chillywilly (danielb@d156.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d156.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: BitchX: strong enough for a man, pH-balanced for a woman neilt (neilt@dialup-166.90.64.234.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ morning all morning neilt sorry, i missed you yesterday but got tied up with family stuff nevermind i will survive it :) you got time for some questions wrt accounting? yes ok in the current proposal there's a term "adjustment" what is this? i am sure i know it but i don't know that it's called "adjustment" :) where is this at ? invoice.gcd class adjustment oh yes first you send invoice to customer then customer pays but sometimes the customer does not pay all so you have two choices ask the customer to pay more (or issue a refund) or simply adjust the amount they should have paid ok adjustment class is for tracking the adjustments does this cover specific reasons for not paying or all reasons like does this cover damadged goods etc all reasons all reasons that result in a permenant adjustment to the invoice for damage goods, you might just send new goods and ask for return wouldn't the correct way for damadged goods etc be to do a credit note yes, and that is not an adjustment for example the goods are damadget but customer agrees to keep them but wants to pay less then you issue a credit note ok just trying to get the wordings adjustment is for cash reconcilation mostly do you in the u.s. have the thing we call "skonto"? that's from the payment terms so to relieve an invoice you either have a cash receipt or an sdjustment you pay 8 days -3% or 30 days net of course you could also have a credit note called a "discount" the discount would be handled by the adjustment did i see correctly that this is not handled automatically some accounting packages i know check if the discount is correct or not read: if the payment was within the time (example 8 days) and the discount was not too high that is not in the specifications yet ok should it be in the first version? well in europe that is _very_ usual at least here in germany/austria yes, here also and customers like to calculate too much discount in the us, customers always wait 30 days and take the 10 day discount so most people are moving away from it but it depends on industry i would say it's more important than for example recurring transactions ok when you get 10% off because you buy so much is that called "discount", too? or is it another word? same ok ok, i've added payment term discounts to invoice specifications you are so quick :) actually i just wanted to make sure that i didn't overlook something do you really have all these different journals in practice? stock shipping journal sales journal cash_receipt journal etc its one way od doing it of the journals are just transaction logs (essentially) yes well if i think about it the question is are these journals really /different/ madlocke (madlocke@pD9505F1A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. or are they just several journals that exist at the same time but are technically the same? what really happens is that they are slightly different for example sales journal will have customer in it payables journal will have vendor in it etc ok cash jounral will have bank in it i think we will have a lot of classes in accounting when every journal type is it's own class it would be simplier if we had a generic pointer that could point to vendor, customer, bank objects then we could have one class for journals another question on vocabulary neilt: i agree we should try to achieve something like that ok question take a transaction like -- customer A credit $ 1000 bank debit $ 995 discount debit $ 5 -- what is the correct word for all 3 lines together and what is the word for one line of them i dont have any idea, that's why I only pretend that I know accounting :) :) but hold on let me get my book is it for example a "transaction" consisting of 3 "entries"? reinhard: think yes because before and after transactions data must be consistent... madlocke: technically yes, but i am trying to learn accounting vocabulary :) btw. hi ;) :) transaction is a general term that does apply to this so if you said transaction, we would know what you mean but a balanced transaction is also refered to is there something a word like "position" for the entries? madlocke: i think for german "position" u.s. term is rather "item" or "line" i think is also called a journal entry reinhard: maybe... because journal entries have to balance and what would you call a single line? an "entry" the objects are currently called "gen_jour_head" for the complete transaction but we would not refer to a single line as in your example and "gen_journal" for the entry in your example one could not have one line without the other two i think we have to have a table/object where we store those lines reinhard: where are you looking at some transactions can have 2 lines and some can have 15 lines gl_post.gcd but please no need to change now jamest: hi... some new probs as always ;) you are reading? neilt: i would rather go through the whole thing systematically i am just asking now to understand what's there so i can take part in the discussion reinhard: this stuff was taken from louis's stuff and i included more than may be necessary neilt: i am not trying to blame you for anything sorry i knew that i understand its just that we need to have this discussion so we can close the holes in the accounting stuff yes but we should have an accountant on-line to help what about we would try to flesh out while I have implemented accounting modules i have not deisgned them before the general ledger as the most basic thing first yes all else relies of G/L module and then do the ar/ap/etc. as "specialized" - maybe even derived - objects btw in the accounting sgml document chapter 2 parameter module hold on seems to be a duplicate of the general parameter moudle dont know if we can have derived objects accountants are not like regular people hehe they like to have everything in one place only and move it around when they are sure it is right i am thinking like general object transaction and general object entry the whole purpose of posting is to move data to the general ledger and provide control points which contains a field "entry type" and entry type can be general, customer, vendor jamest_ (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest_: hi... jamest_: i was trying zipcode.gfd jamest_: getting following: DB000: File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/GConnections.py", line 138, in getDataObject DB000: 'provider'), connection_type, self) DB000: File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/GConnections.py", line 101, in getConnectionParameter DB000: raise NotFoundError DB000: gnue.common.GConnections.NotFoundError jamest_: any ideas? um reinhard: not sure i understand do you have any entries in your connections.conf? i copied sample.pg to connections.conf changed host to localhost ah, that probably won't work created gnue db lemme look neilt: sorry had a phone call and did a \i *.ql neilt: not finished yet :) and did a \i *.sql ok neilt: object "transaction" contains things like voucher number, transaction date, entered by user, entered at date etc. madlocke: the problem is neilt: object "entry" contains basically gl account number and amount neilt: then i see 2 possibilities that the zipcode.gfd is trying to access a database identified as "devel" instead of "gnue" neilt: a. we derive an object "entry_customer" which contains additionally a customer link our samples our out of sync with the sample.conf file erm... understand... neilt: and likewise an object "entry_vendor" and both are derived from entry, so in the entry object you have _all_ entries reinhard: hold on, booking airline ticket, brb neilt: b. we have a field "customer" and "vendor" in the basic "entry" object, and they are NULL if not appropriate i merged the branch back into head yesterday btw for those that missed the commit mail phone call... reinhard: ok back dont like the fields that are empty approach metoo reinhard: is it possible for you to write an example and post to the email list an example for what? for the object definitions? yes ok yes i can i will show both variants and tell that we prefer a. if possible i am having trouble following what your proposing oh i am not sure that it's your fault :) and what class (if any, in the current design) we are talking about ok i will write a mail and see if i get lynched by our accountants :) ajzzzz (ajmitch@p4-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajzzzz[p4-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz] jamest_: do i have to delete and check out again or is the a command to switch to head branch? the=there madlocke: there is a command i've been using http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/cvsbook.html as my guide to cvs reinhard: surely that was not the end of your questions ummm actually ... let me think... well is that account segmentation thing really so important in the u.s.? i didn't ever hear about that here 95% of companies here have simple 4-digit account numbers traditionally yes at one time, management accounting and fiscal accounting were all on s/on/one and all manamgement reports for accounting info went through the chart of accounts so we had to have segments for all the types of reporting the CFO wanted for example, sales by region therefore region was a segment oh and you had an account per region each region had the capability of having accounting transactions for all natural accounts so its a big deal, doing an accounting implementation to deisgn the segments of the account numbers but in my opinion, totally un-needed will not totally but it depends on how much detail you need in the profit and loss statement so if i want to show sales and cost of goods by region, country, wholesale, and retail then i need 4 segments in addition to my natural account number giving 5 segments total in most cases i dont think this much detail is needed in financial statments but accountants are funny about that ajzzzz (ajmitch@p44-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. we can always run a sales report to get sales in region and country just a sec but that is not audited by accounting and therefore not usually acceptable back from what i see this segmentation stuff is more a thing of turnover statistics and is not used for other accounts like bank, expenses etc. because you probably won't be able to divide your expenses by region if i got it right, i agree with you 100% that this should be in sales module actually but you can track costs by region and country for example but it adds a lot of complexity and US accountants like that lol and select software based on the ability to have to hire more accountants so IMHO it is required as a capability now during the implementation we can chose to have only one segment (the natural account number) yeah another question what is activity based accounting or what this was called? it is a different way to calculate overhead not using allocations but instead calculating the true costs of activities such as sales, accounting, and computers etc, based on the real events for example cost of sales per order cost of computers per login person cost of accounts receiveable per invoice etc so if one department has more people logged into the computer they get more of the computer costs if one region has more invoices, they get more of accounting's costs etc so the overheads are not just lumped into one overhead cost and allocated back to items sold based on a percentage of labor or material contents ok i think i get it we call it activity based costing the result is that departments have a way to control overhead costs bacuse they can (in my example) reduce the number of people logged into the computer then the computer group is getting less from that department and they have to reduce their support staff otherwise they dont have enough income to justify the staff so everything is tied together better to make business decisions it seems like US accountants like to mix up accounting and controlling i like to regard that as two completely different cups of coffee even though in many companies it's the same person doing it i think you miss the point it has different goals in the us accounting is controlling :) ok :) here accounting is 99% what has to be done to make the tax authorities happy and 1% information for the management usually a company has 3 different financial statements one for the bank which shows that they have much gain one for the tax which shows that they have little gain and one for the management which shows how things really are :) in the states you go directly to jail in that example i'm not talking about giving wrong figures it is illegal to have more than 1 accounting and financial statement i'm talking about different "interpretation" of things like when i buy a computer i have to divide the costs among several years (not sure what the english word for this is) for the tax i can do 3 years so i have less profit this year for the bank i can do 5 years if i expect to keep it 5 years for example not that it's realistic to keep a computer for 5 years :) reinhard: we cant to that the bank wants to see the one financial statment that is sent to the government since the bank and government and investors all see the same financial statement that is also what is used to manage the company in the end the investors and bank have to see the proper running of things seems like your laws are a lot tougher than ours probably that's why here companies can die with millions of US$ debits and the bank didn't even recognize it :( dont know about austria, but in the UK they are and are not for example, it is very hard to send a corporate person to jail even if they lose all of the investors money unless they break the law, steal etc in the UK it is a lot easier to send a directory or president to jail if they were not prudent anyway at least i can say that reports for the management are in most cases more detailed that reports for the government s/that/than/ ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.6) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all ToyMan (stuq@c5300-2-ip92.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest_: now i am having the problem jcater was writing in TODO with the _inits[phase] ... jamest_: i looked at it jamest_: GFBlock is a child of GFPage jamest_: GFPage initializes its' childs jamest_: after this initalization process continues, finds GFBlock and initializes it jamest_: 2nd time of initialization jamest_: looked at it for helloworld2.gfd madlocke: odd probably a carryover from the old system that was missed jamest_: i will look at it more close later... but still have the problem that i can't use zipcode.gfd i look at this first (zipcode) neilt: you still here? yes when you receive a sales order form a customer btw - students are returning madlocke so things are nuts here, expect choppy responces you do a transaction in accounting? and if yes: what accounts ? no accounts ok if you do accounts then sales will not work with out accounting so we write a sales journal with enough information to convert into accounts madlocke: what is current error now? ok yes what i don't understand is how will that transaction look like once it is posted? in the sales part of accounting jamest_: initialize for GFDatabase wants 3 params: self, user, passwd so it won't work for normal init process... there will need to be a mapping of account numbers to actions we have _no_ accounting transactions here until the invoice is written sorry, i misunderstood i was also talking about invoice not sales the invoice gets written to the sales journal no that is not right either that is the ar journal not sure i understand the need for the sales journal ok good that makes me feel better now :) i actually don't understand purchase commitment journal stock receiving journal sales commitment journal in some businesses the purchase commitment journal is used because you have long term stock transfer journal stock shipping journal contracts all of these actions don't result in any accounting transactions normally that you commitment to even though you dont receive a vendor invoice for 6 months yeah but you didn't receive the goods either these have to be included in the financial statements but you are still abligated to buy the goods if they show up i have committed to buy the goods yes and that goes into the notes of the financial statements but that is neither a profit nor a loss dneighbo (dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. help jamest is one of you here ? rm *.* dneighbo: rm *.* rm -rf * is generally more effective rm -rf / thought you were still on windblows nope debian and redhurt a little windows now and then when HAVE to apt is seriously misbehaving on me and i dont know how to fix it causing me grief on internal network routing sigh will have to deal with it later i suppose have to go to work neilt: did i understand this correctly: posting means for example copying data from the sales journal to the general journal? yes and maybe adding account numbers to it and then the sales journal is deleted? or not? no no no ah ok we shouldnt delete things in accounts you would drive an accountant mad :) the journal has teh detail neilt i find most of them to be angry tortured souls anyhow : so it is kept for 7 years and the general journal can be just a sum yes reinhard i think of hte general ledger (journal) ahhh as being a 'rollup' general journal has the option of being sum or detail in the configuration so you can see all activity in one journal but at a high level some accountants have to have the detail in the general journal but it is not proacticaly for large concerns neilt : that is a sick accountant :) bye bye Nick change: dneighbo -> dnwork arent they all neilt pretty much when i print the transactions of a certain account where will that report take the data from? in our family all of us are computer science or accountants my sisters are all CPAs and htey are sick ;) reinhard: depends reinhard depends on teh report :) from the general journal? from the journals for reports from teh general legder for the financial statements from the general ledger for trial balance so i will only see the sums? in trial balance and financial statements yes ok for journal reports they can be summary or detail usually i feel like i start to understand how all this works :) Welcome to GNUe University lol would you do all manual transactions in the general journal? not usually ajzzzz (ajmitch@p44-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajzzzz[p44-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz] the summary from teh detail journals are posted during the posting process then manual adjustments are made for thinks that need it s/thinks/things/ i think about somebody only using accounting without sales module etc like a really small company who does invoicing with ball-pen and paper but has to do accounting neilt,reinhard: maybe a snippet of this provides a good doc ;) yes, then only manually but, they can also manually enter into the detail journal so the computer can add it all up so you would usually still do posting or like a company that has another highly-specialized system for invoicing Action: madlocke wants more docs... well when i look at my own accounting i have transactions lik e pay insurance buy printer paper madlocke: excellent idea, were you volunteering got cash from a customer etc all are mixed up on my bank statement um... i mean the piece of paper i get from the bank which shows the transactions of my bank account we use this piece of paper to do our accounting we call them bank statement also neilt: maybe you really could take some of this chat as doc... for a start... and it would be ugly to always have to switch between the journals in the manual case, for small business you really only have two journals expenses and sales most small businesses are on cash accounting method not acrural no not talking about cash accounting and most small businesses have detail in general ledger the accouting software i currently use only has one type of journal ok i see you don't take it serious :( which can contain all types of transactions mixed madlocke: we take docs serious madlocke: good idea, but converting IRC to make sense is a lot of trouble what we are now trying to do is madlocke: it is easier to write doc from scratch agree on the things we _want_ to document ok neilt: there is only one table containing all tranactions you enter all transactions into that table reinhard: yes when you have one table, it is usually the general ledger and it contains all of the details and "posting" is nothing more than setting a boolean field in that table from false to true that has to be one option in our system the next option is enter details into journals and post journals into the general ledger that is for the next bigger company then you have the integrated into sales etc option where the journals are created automatically to make the sums? sorry that question was re: next option when you post the posting program has an option a) summary only or b) all details sorry let me rephrase so it depends on the configuration what do we gain from entering details into journals and post journals into the general ledger? is it only the summation thing? sumation and complexity the bigger the general ledger becomes the longer to process complexity? number of records what you have to look through to find problems in the data yeah so complexity = summation actually ? summation = lack of complexity (!complexity) :) umm... summation = less complexity ? in my book, yes so basically the "specialized" journals and the general journal have very similar field schema? except the general ledger has account number with segments and the journal has the detail info without segments btw reinhard and neilt : welcome back but i have not thought through how segments will actually work neilt: thanks for answering all these questions jamest_: thanks reinhard: your welcome when do we start transalting this into .gcd files today no kidding that summation things cool jamest_: will "python setup.py devel" works now for gnue-common and gnuef? do you sum up all accounts when you sum up in the posting process? example: 2 transactions in my original journal buy ball-pen: bank - office material buy printer paper: bank - office material i want to see bank account only with sums and office material expenses account with detail always is this possible not usually depends on what you mean by see in a large system you would look at the summary on the screen ra3vat: you only need to run it in gnuef and say "i want to know more" by clicking on the summary number i don't think it's added to gnue-common ok as IIRC it's not needed there that sounds good that you would take you directly to the detail screen and you would see all details from the detail journal so it would look almost like a single ledger system ajzzzz (ajmitch@p62-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest_: how could i keep my stable (working) installation which is in /usr/local/gnue and play with new stuff? neilt: would you think it would be a bad idea to have the detail and the sum in the same table? with a field in the table, like 1 = it's a detail 2 = it's a sum reinhard: my initial reaction is yes 0 = it's a detail and should not be summed because it you do that then you have to have an audit program to check all of the tables i would force computing the sums as much as possible the idea behind posting is to compute the sums and move them to a table that can not be modified except by very stringent security select sum (amount) from entry where sum_code <> 1 ah sorry in the process of posting every entry get's the field "posted" set to "true" and the sum entries are calculated and inserted into the database ra3vat: in gnuef run setup.py devel reinhard: that could work it will attempt to create a symbolic link from the cvs executable to /usr/local/bin/gfcvs using gfcvs you can run the cvs copy and still keep the installed version as gfclient reinhard: what happens when you add to the table that has sums dont you have to do a lot of checking to make sure the sums are maintained hmmm here in austria/germany every journal has a number jamest_: File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/dbdrivers/postgresql/DBdriver.py", line 47, in _postChanges for field in (self._modifiedFields.keys()): AttributeError: _modifiedFields and every single journal may only be posted as a whole and may never ever be changed after being posted jamest_: i get this when committing changes to zipcode and because we create the sums in the posting process we don't have that problem i'm not sure of course whether a journal can be changed in the u.s. after it was posted jamest_: let me guess, you are using mysql? reinhard: generally not, but you can still add to a journal changing the sum as we may post daily weekly or monthly depending on the volume of transactions reinhard: actually depends on what you are calling the sum you can not change a posted summary here in in the us how do handle daily posting ? just a sec preparing dinner for kids in parallel ok madlocke: mysql! no thank you. I'm a postgresql user and zipcode worked fine from home system I can't test here right now classes start next monday and thinks are always nuts here the week before and after classes start as everyone is comming back after the summer jamest_: i thought you changed jobs? well, i did then math made me an offer I couldn't refuse if I stayed so you have the big bucks now no byte-compiling /usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/dbdrivers/geas/DBdriver.py to DBdriver.pyc File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/dbdrivers/geas/DBdriver.py", line 85 self.triggerExtensions = TriggerExtensions(self.database) ^ SyntaxError: unindent does not match any outer indentation level jamest_: it is while setup.py install on gnue-common ra3vat: this is with main cvs updated from today? neilt: daily posting works like Aug 13 you get Journal No. 123 jamest_: yes, but it is for geas driver as you can see oh crap Action: jamest_ smacks himself hard reinhard: ? ra3vat: you'll definately need to pull the last tagged version out of cvs the pre-merge one Aug 14 you get Journal No. 124 every day has it's own sum of course there is a sum per account and period but that's a totally different thing as geas driver is screwed right now reinhard: ok i have not seen that here and there are no daily sums btw - about to switch to new firewall so expect me to drop soon jamest_: File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/dbdrivers/postgresql/DBdriver.py", line 47, in _postChanges for field in (self._modifiedFields.keys()): AttributeError: _modifiedFields I also has that sigh jamest_: look at DBdriver.py in _postChanges jamest_: i think this method is not ready... jamest_: look at the statement at the end of the method... dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt: we need to continue this. bbl reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. jamest_ (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: Ping timeout for jamest_[hobbes.math.ksu.edu] jamest_ (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. byte-compiling /usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/FormatMasks/DateMask.py to DateMask.pyc File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/FormatMasks/DateMask.py", line 181 self.lastInputPos = ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax wtf? jamest_: i think there was a problem when merging... jamest_: jacter once deleted the stuff, but it is still in the head branch jamest_: the class PG_RecordSet since version 1.8.2.3 has only one line jamest_: pass oh boy this isn't cool jamest_: version 1.9 has the methd _postChanges again madlocke: i've just refreshed gnue-common and still have that problem reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) joined #gnuenterprise. File "/home/ds/install/cvs/gnue/gnuef/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/dbdrivers/postgresql/DBdriver.py", line 47, in _postChanges for field in (self._modifiedFields.keys()): AttributeError: 'PG_RecordSet' instance has no attribute '_modifiedFields' ra3vat: it is a prob in the head branch i think madlocke: how could i grab another one? jamest_: try tkcvs. with it you easily can the changes... and diffs... ra3vat: you can get the gnue-new-datasources branch for gnue-common but i think this is no good idea... ra3vat: this is a problem that has to be fixed in the head branch... jamest_: insert the word 'see' between can and the ;) madlocke: think so jamest_: there are more probs... jamest_: branch doesn't work to when committin, but different problems... to=too jamest_ (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: Ping timeout for jamest_[hobbes.math.ksu.edu] hey! I just got some spam from gnue-admin@gnu.org! offering to do mass emails.. you guys trying out some 'alternate revenue streams'? :-) rofl jamest_ (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. have to go...cuy madlocke (madlocke@pD9505F1A.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Client Exiting Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. hi Mr_You: hi chillywilly (danielb@d156.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. will this is really cool i now use debian packages to update my mac :) The following 8 packages will be installed or updated: bzip2 dpkg gettext glib gzip orbit tar texinfo The following 2 additional packages will be installed: libiconv ncurses Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y wget --verbose http://http.us.debian.org/debian/project/dpkg/dpkg-1.9.16.tar.gz hey performance champion :) is a db transaction with many updates/inserts a performance problem? i.e. is it faster to break it into more smaller transactions? sorry neilt seems like i should call you by your real name :) reinhard: i think he'll answer to GQ Cover Model jamest_: lol duuuuuudes my fuckig laptop filesystem bought the farm just got this other system up Linux moya 2.4.3-jfs #1 Tue May 22 20:24:21 EDT 2001 i586 unknown old McWilly bought the farm e i e i o Action: chillywilly is trying to make some better floppies with xfs, etc. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-2-ip92.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Read error to ToyMan[c5300-2-ip92.albany.thebiz.net]: Connection reset by peer how do you feel about making a branch for methods, I need to start hacking ToyMan (stuq@c5300-2-ip92.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. I needed to start eons ago, but there';s no sense in dwelling on that sheesh boot-floppies is the cvs module from hell reinhard: hello sorry was taking a shower oh yeah i heard some people do that from time to time ;) real madcoders don't have time for such stuff j/k will i feel like that considering that its 1:13 pm here usually do that around 5 am i have no idea about db performance ok thanks btw i am writing a gcd file as we speak which will be a mixture of luis' inital document and what we talked about and what came into my mind meanwhile and some stuff from my existing application which will be very useful to confuse you ;) ok, I am making a branch soon and there will be nothing you can do about it muuwwwwahahahahahaaa first I gotta get my system back up and running though, which may take all day branch on what cw: oh methods cw: ok neilt: another vocabulary question is there a general word for invoice number, bank statement number, credit note number... ? not that i can think of right now what is a voucher number? voucher is not mentioned in my accounting book i know the term a voucher is a piece of paper that entitles you to something a voucher number would be a number for a voucher louis has a int64 voucher number in journal_head that is a transaction serial number could we say "document number" ? neilt: ah do we need that serial number for legal reasons? document number would mean the number for a specific document or could we replace it with our object id? usually the serial number ties detail journals to summary entries ah ok Anybody know how long login names can be on systems like GNU or Solaris? old solaris is like 8 chars IIRC not sure about newer solaris versions as I still have to maintain compat with some old ones old systems 8, most current ones are greater ok if we store login name of user posting a transaction in the database which x for char(x) does make sense? 16 maybe? or 11 ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.6) left irc: Client Exiting brb reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) joined #gnuenterprise. back neilt (neilt@dialup-166.90.64.234.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[dialup-166.90.64.234.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net] neilt (neilt@dialup-63.215.113.53.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ ajzzzz (ajmitch@p62-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajzzzz[p62-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz] neilt: i just commited a file "gl.gcd" in gnue-config/accounting/gl/classes looking now just fixed a missing line got it cool can you take a look and check if you _understand_ what i mean if yes then we can in a second step look where you _agree_ :) everything look like i understand it it is very incomplete but there are some points that are different imho let me explain how the summation works ok there is only one set of classes journal - trans(action) - entry different journals can be open (i.e. in the process of being entered) at the same time if you want a sum or not depends on the account, not on the type of journal so for a cash receipt journal you could for example have sums on the customer controlling account and detail on the bank account at least here some accountants like that ok then when you are finished with entering (or generating from another module) you can post a complete journal the posting is a single huge transaction which changes the field "posted" to true just update your file and creates new entries with "sum" = 2 from the sum of all entries of a specific account and a specific period where "sum" = 1 from that time on the journal in question can't be changed anymore and you start a new journal when you enter new transactions well that's it basically i dont think i understand this currency::money trans; # amount / transaction currency currency::money acc; # amount / account currency currency::money base; # amount / base currency ah ok imagine you are a us company reporting in us dollars i am your customer because you have a lot of customers in europe you have a bank account in germany which is in DEM (deutsche mark) i pay 500 austrian schillings to pay invoice # xyz so on the bank account you have trans = 500 ATS acc = 71 DEM base = 36 USD at what conversion rates? hehe good question in this example chillywilly (danielb@d156.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: [BX] Everybody was Kung Fu fighting! trans : acc is given by the bank who receives ats and gives you dem trans : base is basically given by what rate you had when booking the invoice when you invoiced 500 ATS you already calculated a revenue on your revenue account of 36 USD but what if the sales was fixed 2 months ago and it was for 38 USD which did = 500 ATS at the time, but now it is only 36 USD. this is a philosophical matter in austria you have to take the rate that is worse for you i think I would rather see one maney field in the currency of the transaction until you go to your german bank and change those DEM into USD and use the proper rules to convert and make into other rates that could be dangerous differencies in currency fluctuations are a special field anyway how could that be dangerious if somebody changes the rates for a period where already transactions were made that could screw up the complete accounting but if someone gives me a payment in DM it is a payment in DM that does not change sorry DEM yes but if he pays on your USD bank account you have to reconcile that bank account and the bank fixes the rate by just giving you a number of USD for the DEM DM is ok too btw, it's the old abbreviation :) but to post that cash recept to my sales system I am not going to wait for the bank statement the customer will send check to me or bank and I will post if to me, or the bank will send deposit advice and i will post against sales but i wont always have the conversion info to post against sales invoice most companies also have bank accounts in local currency there are some legal issues that it is really harder to process payments from outside of company country and then they sweep the account at times that are advantagious to the currency fluctuations but my experience has been US companies operating in local areas, not in Europe operating in local countries there seem to be some differences mfrag (m@ppp-ath06046.tee.gr) joined #gnuenterprise. a. like nobody sends checks within europe that could be the difference in 99% of the cases the bank statement is the way you _learn_ about a customer payment because if they are bad it is impossible to get legal action no because it's too much work in the states that is not necessarily the case hi mfrag jamest or jamest_ you here? we do via bank transfer every company has a direct modem connection to the bank (not over the internet, direct line) just worked for a client that did not have a problem with $5 to $8 million in checks sitting in the desk drawer waiting to figure out what the checks were for well dialin of course im walking in on the tail of a conversation haloo mfrag: hello but company my sister used to audit for had all operations in US EXCEPT manufacturing which was in mexico ajzzzz (ajmitch@p27-max3.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. there were unique needs for payroll and such qhat is this channel about? i dont remember them all what is this channel about? http://www.gnuenterprise.org is what its about mfrag: about the gnu enterprise project GNU enterprise GNU Enterprise yeah now you know it :) ;) i got no idea! anyhow one of the big items in currency exchange is operationg the exchange at time optimal for your company i am a linux newbie and i am just looking around as hitting exchange rates on wrong or right day can result in signifcant gain or loss dneighbo: true is there a web-page to get info? well this channel talkes about everything that's better! from social economic positions of free software mfrag: http://www.gnuenterprise.org to which editor is the best aha to who likes goats the most etc so dont be fooled by topics or urls ;) dneighbo: actually the current discussion is whether only the amount in transaction currency should be stored, or also the amount in base currency reinhard: ok i think you want to know the relevant amounts to know if you are making money or losing on the transaction example if i bought a building in 1981 in mexico i would want to know what i paid in pesos adn what the value at the time in US dollars was so if i went to sell it in 2001 i could do apt comparison as maybe the building itself didnt go up significantly in pesos reinhard: checked in a couple of modifications to gl.gcd but the exchange rate was MUCH more favorable to me neilt: updating... Action: dneighbo wishes he knew more about such things but i know if you play international currency properly you can stand to gain a lot neilt: see you added the source have we changed our focus from supply chain? yes, hard to tell what the document number meant without the source to accoutning? and wehre do we stand on base modules? no changed neilt: good point we just need to respond the the general interest on the web site that accounting is the most importnat reinhard: and i made the posted from bool to date and added a creation date that may be different from the posted date dneighbo: and in fact we have to react on the input we got on accounting fwiw: personally i need accounting more than supply chain but still think supply chain is EASIER place to start :) actually for me and probably most that 'accounting' why would easier even be in the thought process really need 'basic' gl neilt: ok agree with all we like pain and invoicing/po reinhard: not sure i agree with gl.gcd yet i will really need invoicing soon just thinking through it will a bit so i can bill my clients neilt: i would be very surprised if you did invoiceing is done i havent billed in 4 months waiting for gnue :) :) for me gl can be as simpol Action: neilt puts reminder in daytimer, "dont let derek handle money". as date and amount :) neilt : why the customers LOVE me :) not being billed and all but just let me speak with your wife and we will see how long that goes on lol believe me you DONT have to do that i just got smacked around the other day ofr that neilt: please take your time to think about it; i think this is the _very_basic_ stuff for all accounting and we should add more things when we agree on the basics my thought is that this is too complicated for journals as i had the sales journal as class sales_journal { date date ! not null; # date of transaction currency::money amount ! not null; # amount of transaction ar::invoice *invoice; # source of transaction ar::adjustment *adj; # source of transaction char user<25> ! not null; # user creating transaction date posted; # if empty not posted }; yeah the ar::invoice is what is killing me there how so where ar::invoice is derived from sales::invoice (or something like that) yes so how do you manually enter an invoice into the accounting system it is derived when you don't use gnue for invoicing you just enter an invoice that does not have a sales order but you have to enter items and all that stuff its just a different form that access the invoice info as if it were a sales order or just one line with an amount reinhard in past i have seen similar things say you use diff invoicing system jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. you would still install gnue invoicing (but not use it for entry) adn just populate it via your interface instead of trying to summarize your existing system into the gl its a bit more cumbersome but kind of nice if your ultimate goal is to try to get people to move to gnue as they are building the history that way :) muhahaha hey jcater hi masta ok i try to explain with an extreme case i know an accountant that does accounting for 35 small companies each of these companies passes him a shoe box full of paper invoices, bank statements, credit notes, bills (from vendors) etc. all mixed i know the answer to this he sits there and enters paper by paper you add up all of the invoice and make one general ledger entry for sales then you add up all of the expenses and make one general ledger entry for expenses that's not legal here because you have to have the due amount per customer in your accounting so you have to have the invoices seperate plus: if you compare gl.gcd with the general journal which you need anyway it's not that much more complex imho but there's the advantage to only have one journal = one class / table what advantage? gl_post.gcd - class gen_journal and gen_jourhead take the bank account you have the cash receipt journal chillywilly (danielb@d39.as3.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. the cash disbursement journal the payroll journal and maybe even more which you all have to search when you want to see all detail entries of the bank account i dont think it works that way or dont think it should the payroll journal is for apyroll only not the bank account won't the bank account appear on the payroll transactions? the journals are not ledgers ledgers have to balance to zero journals are just accumulations of data i understand a journal as a list of balanced transactions yes you are right sort of a journal has debit and credits how do you paste in xchat when you have no middle mouse button? i am confused and brain dead i am glad i dont do this for a living jamest_: help - how do i paste without middle mouse button? 2-button emulation click them both at the same time doesn't work then you have to turn it on there is no key shortcut? I dun remember using BitchX I have no GUI right now on this machine ok i will try to explain neilt: when i talk about journal we even have a piece of paper that is called journal here it has the following columns: source doc-no. date debit-account debit-amount credit-account credit-amount text and it lists transactions Action: chillywilly hates the double accounting thingy where everything is a debit or dredit credit I;m too stupid to get it right :P reinhard: press both left and right doesn't work um nevermind ok I said that jamest_ that was easy :) chillywilly: sorry, shot from the hip w/o reading further down :P X needs 3 button mice anyway does that hurt? shooting from the hip? it is just si much more sexier hey jcater howdy jamest_ did you see that I unleashed the bad goats in HEAD um yes bad = mad something went seriously wrong heh, you make your own boot floppies rock one time, I saw parts of the Friday the 13th movie series and it scared me well that was my initial reaction er, but I don't want sid floppies to the commit email no idea what happened but my copy at home works however the nice people here are suffering nice people = people Action: jamest_ forgot where he was for a second Action: jcater was wondering argh! gnue.conf changed again :( yipeee a day without gnue.conf changes is like a day without sunshine hmmm works for me too must be our mad skilz ok, almost or the fact the changes are mostly our fault still a problem in GFEntry.py:183 (verifyValue) :) AttributeError: getField dropdowns are boofar's ok boofar'd what's their problem? scratch that what is gnuef doing to them? scratch that what behavior are they getting from gnuef ? there we go jaaguilarb (antonio@200.64.84.1) joined #gnuenterprise. mfrag (m@ppp-ath06046.tee.gr) left irc: [x]chat neilt: now how shall we proceed? jaaguilarb: hi dnwork (dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Ping timeout for dnwork[cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net] dnwork (dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt: sorry i always forget this is still your RealWork(tm) time jamest_: now i am having the problem jcater was writing in TODO with the _inits[phase] ... jamest_: i looked at it jamest_: GFBlock is a child of GFPage jamest_: GFPage initializes its' childs jamest_: after this initalization process continues, finds GFBlock and initializes it jamest_: 2nd time of initialization jamest_: looked at it for helloworld2.gfd madlocke: odd probably a carryover from the old system that was missed jamest_: i will look at it more close later... but still have the problem that i can't use zipcode.gfd jcater: it'd be far faster just to mail you copy of todays crap today's crap? and you can search for comments from ra3vat and madlocke er, crap = logs oh, thought that might be our new codename school is ramping up here so jamest's brain is frazzled hi reinhard: sorry phone call dnwork (dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Ping timeout for dnwork[cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net] Nick change: ajzzzz -> ajmitch ToyMan (stuq@c5300-2-ip92.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: [x]chat reinhard: hi i interested in this project. cool any questions we can answer for you? Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy dnwork (dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. yes. About the projects hr, r_and_d, gedi, designer, ... ok hr is not currently being worked on afaik r_and_d the same gedi/geas you can ask me designer you can ask jcater if you give the direction what you would want to do with gnue i could give you a hint on where to look at first :) Nick change: neilt -> neil-away ok neil-away: we will continue this talk tomorrow i guess sorry it's late for me will go to sleep seeya all reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.173) joined #gnuenterprise. neil-away (neilt@dialup-63.215.113.53.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) left irc: later all bye and thanks jaaguilarb (antonio@200.64.84.1) left irc: Leaving bigbrother joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-4-ip13.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. bbl jamest_ (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. oooh, that new compaq presario looks kewl jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: later Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch chillywilly (danielb@d39.as3.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: BitchX WWW Site -- http://we.got.net/~brian/ jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: later MicahY (micah@c1306879-a.salem1.or.home.com) joined #gnuenterprise. anyone have a URL for RMS's rebuttal of Microsoft's "GPL FAQ"? I tried searching without luck... that was SOOOO elegant. :) search slashdot.org bbl doesn't look like it's there I *know* it was on Linux Today, but can't find it there either BTW, not talking about the GNU site's GPL FAQ just Stallman's analysis of the MS one I think I found it..... right you find it did jamest ever make it back I see he typed "bbl" a little while ago i'm not here PLEASE tell me you will be here in 2 hours or so? im having a debian problem that is stopping me dead in my tracks :( apt-get install mad-goats was NOT A good idea :) I will make it a point to be thank you :) basically have some dependency issue as masta tourture is one of my favorite pasttimes that an apt-get -f install wont even fix and its introduced teh bug i hit every few months addiction is an ugly thing with ifconfig toasting internal networking services but not external ones i can explain the steps of how it happened and why ok, I'll be arround later i can not explain how the hell to undo it I should be a taekwondo but am playing hookie unixGh0d can :) hookie? she beat up that bad now a days? didn't go also have to swing by buddy's house to give him a "thanks for moving away" gift Action: dneighbo thinks jamest is avoiding sparing with that 64 grandma going for 'self-defense' reasons hey! she's one tough old lady neilt (neilt@dialup-63.208.69.226.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) left irc: Ping timeout for dtm[m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com] dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hi dtm hehe "thanks for moving away" heh dneighbo: you here? ToyMan (stuq@c5300-4-ip13.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: [x]chat neilt im here you know of any free accounting software i can look at yeah gnucash sqlledger kontor have you lookted at any of these and are they worth looking at panther : http://www.possl.org/servlet/HelloPossl/index.html gnucash is more like quicken than business software, but its ok accounting wise sql ledger does the job but is my opinion techically a hack (though its been a while) kontor seemed ok but never looked to hard basicly just a general ledger pather is basically GNUe only using websphere it is fully gpl i WAS worried when it came out till found out you had to have 10k websphere to use and develop with it then it was no longer a threat :) but you can get single user websphere to look at it there is another one i have at home its not free as in free but free as in free demo i have demos of peachtree laying around BTW: for anyone not knowing RMS says it ok to use prop software IF i just want to look at documentation you are doing so to learn, and making free equivalent or reverse engineer it :) reverse engineer - - - no no no, we know that that is illegal now http://www.starrcs.com/soft/am/doc/scdoc.htm go dir to jail I wonder if lawson has their docs online look at that stuff tell me if its any good Mr_You i think i have lawson docs here at work but not digital http://www.lawson.com/products/engines/financials/financials.html http://www.starrcs.com/soft/am/doc/gldoc.pdf is the gl doc lemme check somethin Action: Mr_You would love to integrate GNUe and Akopia/Redhat Interchange shouldn't be too hard I guess what is akopia? http://www.starrcs.com/soft/am/doc/scdoc.htm is crap pretty much the best (feature wise) e-commerce solution available.. developer.akopia.com check out the demo at least for my use what about the gl one? i dont know squat about star came up in google looked relevant http://www.starrcs.com/soft/am/doc/gldoc.pdf gldoc.pdf is the one i looked at ah ok lawson is just product briefs peachtree has no docs online either I guess Sorry, the page (admin/admin/error) was not found The requested item (admin/admin/error) was not found. You can return to browsing our catalog, if you wish. incredible demo :) addd to that on site says sorry for 28 hour outage not where i want to intrust my company ;) Red Hat Acquires Akopia and Interchange poor red hat j/k i dont know enough about it what i can tell gnue will do what it does only better :) mysap.com might be of some help yeah right looked there documentation must be a 4 letter word to them :) akopia interchange is bloated perl code, but has tons of features well the demo interface at mysap.com might answer a question ;-) No documents matching your query were found. For suggestions on how to broaden your search, see Search Tips. when searching for accounting documentation documentation search produces over 200 but all are for the GPL SAP DB you want my accounting docs? neilt what are you looking for specifically? no not really i started reading a text book (yes im that sick) something that explains how it is implemented on accounting from my CPA (sisters) i used this stuff, but never paid any attention to how it was designed and took notes on it ok i can get all definitions of our system here i know what it should do, but how is the best design its not super pretty but im starting to understand it the design and it does handle millions of transactions how are invoices handled between the ar system and the gl system hmm ledgers it gets into some weird stuff in way of encumberances and things as well http://www.lawson.com/products/engines/financials/financials.html oops http://www.omg.org/techprocess/meetings/schedule/AR_AP_Facility_RFP.html there is some project that I'm tring to find that had more execs than developers.. omg has lots here hahah im looking at the ar/ap one now too funny Mr_You we thik alike ive tried looking at omg and it was too complicated omg is usually over inflated and controlled by big boys on the ar/ap spec TWO paying members have commented and basically built the spec guess who oracle and unisys two companies that are not into squishing competition :) i assume microsoft was a sleep at the wheel on this cause they had no product in this space, with great plains on thier payroll expect them to be the 'leader' going forward http://www.compassgl.org/ was interesting it seems dead now :( http://www.ebxml.org/ probably ousted them there was some "open" project that only had execs tho.. tryin to track it down and see if they had any progress on accounting wow I think it had a couple develoeprs now tho you want to know something scary a complex search for general ledger specification on google turns gnuenterprise as like the fourth hit so see neilt you ARE making the spec :) heh we are fourth behind xbrl omg and crap we are number 3 too really as its a gnu link to one of the founding projects that rolled into gnue :) thats too funny its VERY scary to think gnue is only open group doing this short of groups like omg who are nothing more than figure heads for big corps to look like they are playing nice not that this is new news, but scary, as you lose perception when you are in it all the time http://www.google.com/search?q=%22general+ledger+specification%22&hl=en&safe=off&start=0&sa=N was the query GNUe rules! :P neilt so you a little nervous that "your" accounting spec could become 'foundation' for packages coming after it :) jamest: this really is funny maybe now that we have 'something' we should try to get back in touch with orginal gnu guys that were doing GNU General Ledger i guess before merger to gnu enterprise or was it mainly just jonas? that is scary hahaha netledger is hurting bad enough they have decided to try to leverage oracles name and are now oracalsmallbusiness.com er http://www.oraclesmallbusiness.com Release 6.7 Offers Enhancements to User Access what is that? by the way i have been updating the search engines every so often with gnue netledger can be more than a year old? how can it be on version 6.7? every time it compiles it goes up a release or what? neilt cool try http://homepage.mac.com/~gnue/ hahah yeah its for the newton japanese call its lead programer gnue gnue is also a scandavian word cant recall what it mean m00seT told me before its something informal like eqiuvalent of 'dude' in english like a informal way to say meeting of friends or something you will see lots of photo albums from there come up with gnue in the search engines how come http://gnu.mirror.mcgill.ca/gnue/ none of the gnue mirrors have anything in them http://mirrors.sunsite.dk/gnu/gnue/ beat me shoudl be gnue/projects/gnue/ er gnu/projects/gnue uggh I can't find it instead of http://gnuftp.ccp14.ac.uk/gnu/gnue/ gnu/gnue i imaging imagine http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/gnu/gnue/ http://sapi.vlsm.org/gnu/gnue/ http://gnu.egr.msu.edu/pub/gnu/gnue/ http://ibiblio.org/pub/gnu/gnue/ ah those are FTP mirrors http://gnu.mirror.mcgill.ca/bayonne/ if you look its all tar balls we dont ahve 'official' releases in ftp so probably why not mirrored :) :( we dont have stable release so have been putting at alpha jamest could probably fix this :) must leave now jamest you be around in hour or so? dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: [BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c17 for the Sony Playstation today! www.fwaccounts.com Mr_You: no docs www.open3.org http://www.gldialtone.com/ this looks interesting http://www.gldialtone.com/AcctgTableObjects.htm chillywilly (danielb@d81.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt: Todd Boyle is on the gnue-accounting mailing list yes he is who the heck is Todd Boyle? i do not know him personally :) he has been our mentor on accounting Action: chillywilly hopes this kernel tar ball isn't corrupted like the last one particularily ok related to XML and data interchange in standard formats using XML as a data exchange format is a cool idea this is for reinhard :) http://www.mis2.udel.edu/ud/datadict/dw-index.html eh? 8 more minutes until kernel 2.4.8 tar ball is downloaded I hate this fucking modem never gonna find that open source project uggh later all see a bye neilt (neilt@dialup-63.208.69.226.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) left irc: jamest you back yet chillywilly you here? Nick change: dnwork -> derek im in debian hell rightnow what is hosed? derek so am I ok here is the stor story i wanted cd burner to work on linux so did apt-get install cdrecord need to rerplace the kernel on my bnoot floppies to get data off of my laptop from testing it failed was bitching about libc++ so i switched my sources list to unstable my laptop file system is hosed did apt-get and it failed same libc++ problem so i said fsck it i will just drop to unstable so i did apt-get dist-upgrade debian took a crap and site went down unstable? dropt to unstable? so unstable didnt finish heh i decided to put burner under windows eehhh i did so libc6 2.2.3-10 is fscked up dude and it worked unstable == don't go there right now yeah changed sources to stable and did upgrade then dist-upgrade and it puked now i terminally fscked as trying to do ANYTHING results in an error an apt-get -f install produces Reading Package Lists... Building Dependency Tree... You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these. Sorry, but the following packages have unmet dependencies: libpgtcl: Depends: libpgsql2.1 (>= 7.1) but it is not installed postgresql: Depends: libpgsql2.1 (>= 7.1) but it is not installed Depends: libpgsql2.1 but it is not installed postgresql-client: Depends: libpgsql2.1 (>= 7.1) but it is not installed Depends: libpgsql2.1 (>= 7.1) but it is not installed python-gnome: Depends: python-gtk (>= 0.6.8) but 0.6.3-5 is installed Depends: python-gdk-imlib (>= 0.6.8) but 0.6.3-5 is installed xfig: Depends: xaw3dg (>= 1.5-6) but 1.3-6.9potato1 is installed error: stupid user, don't you know to stay away from unstable either reinstall or yer gonna hafta force removal then dist-upgrade so need wisdom on how to get this jamest no shit i got bit finally im not going there again unstable can be fin at times honestly this i think was mostly case of it dying in the middle but lesson learned none the less ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.173) left irc: [x]chat derek: i doestn't install till after it downloads everything right now sincee I am forced to dod a clean install due to fucked up fiole system I am sticking with testing until things are fixed so how do i repair this? or am i terminally doomed? funny thing is everythign 'seems' ok cept damn ifconfig bug with libc is back you can downgrade no, you're not doomed so no internal network since this is my gateway thats problematic :) apt-get install package/distro you need sources.list lines Action: derek needs a damn box to use other than my gateway chillywilly: cool, i didn't know that trick get a linksys gateway so gate way can happily stay potato um chillywilly apt-get install package didnt work it gets error you see woohoo woody should work fine kernel tar ball downloaded jamest: if im not terminal yay what do i do? it's not corrupted derek: well , I don't know chillywilly's trick but I do what are you trying to install? documentation for apt goat raping seems to be non existent :) he's trying to downgrade to woody or potato you cna mix and match dpkg --remove --force-depends package like when I was running sid and libtool borked I downgraded to tyesting's libtool all the dependecies listed jamest ah i was using dpkg --remove package derek did a dist-upgrade to unstable.. *snicker* let me try that if chillywilly can show an example of forcing downgrade that might be better you just need mul;tiples sources.list lines and specifiy ythe distro e.g., apt-get install libtool/testing Mr_You: I think debian stable/testing/unstable has nothing to do with code status, it's admin mental state sid can break that's why you have to follw #debian er, check #debian often heh rofl yeah, if you're question is somewhat hard at least debian has sense of humor you give them one more person to ignore something like libpgtcl has dependenies problems, but removing anyhow cause you said but since you're asking about a cd burner there'll probably be 75 experts online :) the typically responce I get is as follows...... jamest me too why do you think im getting help here you gotta know people talk to ElectrucElf i posted this question at LEAST 15 times last night er, ElectricElf he's a gppd guy good chillywilly: the problem isn't typically that people are not helpfull on purpose too much going on in the channel I know yip it's easy to get overlooked but if you hang out there often people get to know you and answer you faster I have found I typically autojoin #debian i just turn my auto email spammer on them till they answer derek: TRY TYPING IN ALL CAPS TO GET THEIR ATTENTION or boot me rofl dood you made me spit out my cookie did the dpkg thing work? juststart pasting shit in the channel they love that yes and no or chillywilly's leet thing if fixed the first F You debian was giving me but quickly found another i got list of all FU's and am doing same thing Action: jamest runs to get the popcorn all removed now trying to dist-upgrade to testing I just recently learned that you can downgrade popcorn and keyboard == messy keyboard :0 it's pretty cool Action: chillywilly is gonna be brave and replace the kernel on this rescue floppy and make my own driver disks rock on gawd this sucks having no X I like make xconfig the best ok it wont delete postgresql-client as /etc/postgresql isnt empty i did mv /etc/postgresql /etc/delete.posgresql chillywilly im learning to not use X A LOT always on windows with ssh sessions and this gateway sadly im finding i DONT miss it all that much chillywilly: I'm still not groking your example jamest eh? how to downgrade you need multiple sources.list lines call me slow e.g., unstable and testing you update then do did that and it STILL friggin complains apt-get unstall package/distro whats me to do --purge er, install --purge is good and it doesn't complain about installed foobulator being newer than to be installed foobulator you don't need to save your stinking configuration that's for weenies hmmm purge fixes it up jamest nope that must be the equiv of it even says cool hey apt FU and listen to my ass DOWNGRADE chillywilly i tried downgrade Action: jamest is scared it said FU derek's trying to use his ass as a verbal interface to his console oy eeeeeeeew the postgres upgrade path NEVER works and its SO ANNOYING hahaha purge doesnt work either you frist have to move the dir then do a purge boy sure postgres isnt written by oracle or m$ Haha the damn thing DOES NOT want to uninstall I think the maintainer may be smoking too much bong um, can't blame postgresql team, they are bsd lovers its the deb maintainer file bugs get blood!! postgres is a bitch when it upgrades man apt-get dist-upgrade FINALLY working HOWEVER its uninstalling task-ximian-gnome is that funny or what : :) that's ok ximian gnoem is horse shit debian's gnome rules debian's gnome is pretty krad although I wish doorman was part of it krad? its very good for dummies in the lab krad==killer rad? or kde rad krad - KDE-like rad-ness :P j/k Action: chillywilly kicks jamest rofl hey dont kick him I've got gnome 1.4 on machines at work at least until i get debian fixed :) Action: chillywilly kicks derek killer rad Action: derek is gonna get jamest a tshirt on front little GNU head sorry, I've been on IRC too much and its ruined my brain. "He's with stupid" under it "UnixGh0d" on the back in big bold and he'll make me wear it whenever I'm near him at SF I AM A SUPPORT WHORE hehe RESPECT ME IN THE MORNING you running yet? jamest you shouldnt tease about jcaters intelligence like that um its still upgrading everything downloaded it just chugging on install guess why i like CLI so much on this box is that its P90 96MB RAM and seems smoking fast with CLI :) Action: chillywilly is ona P166 80MB and you RUN X on that? p90 is pretty comfy with gnome with that much ram but this is gonna be my server if so i do feel sorry for you I don't need no stinking GUIs no X here my K6 350mhz with 48mb feels like gnome is crawling nope, I am only gonna use the bare essentials you guys are real machine snobs :P Action: derek is gonna pick up two 256mb sticks for like $60 bucks nickr eh? and shove em in there and see if makes a diff nickr you dont want to know what work is like :) im crippled with a P||| 500mhz 128mb laptop with 12gig drive which is painful Action: nickr rolls his eyes as my workstation is PIII 1gig 512mb at work and my SLOW workstation at work is P||| 500mhz 256mb ram both loaded with the best M$ has to offer the box they were gonna put in the basement i snagged for linux P|| 500mhz 128mb RAM so they screem along as if they were running at 8Mhz so spoiled at work with 640K of ram jamest: one has win95 as that's all you'll ever need so most of its 256mb memory is going to waste the other win98 which i never use cause i dont like the keyboard and i dont really do work at work anyhow we need free hardware chillywilly if you come to SF GPL'd hardware we did start the Free Food Foundtion hehe eh? in vegas ariel got a free burrito and i got a free soda twice so chillywilly can eat if he's there ;) when asking for donations I want free burritos lol in new york i was only member of free food foundation i did manage free breakfast every morning and free soda all day and free beer one night mmmmmm, free beeer aaaaauauuuuugggghghghgghhhh Where!? the beer was donated to the free food foundation by IBM they wont publicly announce thier alligance to us but at SV LUG meeting they did do an open bar for all free foundation members as well Silicon Valley Linux Users Group heh of course Linus showed up so that played a part in it as they were there, not knowing linus was gonna be there and they were taking photos for the ad campaign lol linus said he would speak but only if no press hounding him that made me think of something ibm was disappointed so opened the bar on them and linus said he would photo op for them :) what linus will do for the free food foundation i tell you :) jamest it was too funny the other day someone was saying how they got to talk to jim dennis and etc etc... and i was like hmmm i used to sit next to him at work and they were in awe... i had to laugh a bit i suppose if i told them that he was designated as my personal chauffer once a week they probably would have bowed and worshipped me :) now jim has a pimp daddy van that thing is phat with a capital P pimp tetex is taking an eternity to install Action: derek twiddles fingers Action: derek wishes he still got paid to do gnue :( FOUND IT! we should start our own consulting firm ;) yea yea damn, this is getting harder to do http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2000-05-10 I am serious Action: chillywilly grumbles because he has no browser to view penny arcade with except lynx chillywilly someday need customers first derek and bud on way back from LWE talking about all the free stuff derek: where you at on install Action: jamest needs sleep its still going just done with netbase and others I'm serious too crap error unpacking replacement lilo.... oooo I hate when that happens better break out the depends /var/cache/apt/archives/eximblahblah.deb error overwriting file? just retry the dist-upgrade E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg/ returned and errorcode 1 and then back to prompt now packlogs are being thrown to my winndow instead of damn syslog or wheerever "heh aghhhh gawd I hate going through this config by hand make it stop retry the dist-upgrade make oldconfig sucks retrying distupgrade wow, didn't take as long as i thought loki's going chapter 11 really ouchie that REALLY sucks yip how can i get it to stop sending messages to my screen? like smodprobe: and ping failed etc stuff that should go to syslog or elsewhere? start syslog i think it's just finishing out the install /etc/init.d/syslogd start or do you have prompt back? i had prompt back and thats when this started shooting crap to screen i am retrying dist-upgrade it looked same as before except for the removes only not downloading packages yea grabbing whats on local system when it configures everything it should restart syslog got same error what is the error? about exim what is the error? what error? just the thing at the end doesn't help any Errors were encountered while processing: thats the thing at the end do you have the error from when it was actually installing it? /var/cache/apt/archives/exim_version.deb E: Sub error error code crap install it by hand, dpkg --install /var/cach etc etc too late re did dist uprade piped to file okay if i kill it will it harm things? shouldn't hurt anything prolly not doing dpkg --install now oh aint this a joy rerunning piped to file so i can post here w/o retyping (Reading database ... 59128 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace exim 3.12-10 (using .../archives/exim_3.31-1_i386.deb) ... Stopping MTA: exim. Starting MTA: exim. Q: what do you guys use to trace through python code while debugging GNUe stuff? argh naturally too much starts / MicahY: lots of GDebug lines :) ok. I was trying to figure out how to do it with idle and didn't get too far i cant cut and past and its too much derek: what kind of errors are they? cannot create regular file /etc/exim/exim.conf : no such file or directory try mkdir /etc/exim i think in jist thats the error wtf or try apt-get install postfix thats odd derek: are you out of space? /etc/exim.conf already exists sounds like an out of space problem. nickr : damn that might be a good call you're not after /etc/exim.conf as it has all old unstable in cache i noticed you're after /etc/exim/exim.conf according to your error message well i have 135mb still wtf that worked what did? BUT now its bitching about a bunch of dependencies it is missing for exim the mkdir /etc/exim apt-get install -f derek: redo the dist-upgrade now, it should work this is when i say apt aint God its only minor diety while i hate searching for rpm's generally im the master of what its doing more so than with apt :) ah, but derek though i ADMIT i was dumb to put unstable in my sources.list er lemme startover so i live with those consequences : grasshoppa, was it not your hand that let apt to unstable lands jamest yip Action: derek is very naughty he broke the plate i thikn its like the adage you can tell a kid not to touch the stove but until he gets burned he probably wont listen well i got burned :) I just wanna know what your problem is with Art Begotti rofl your kids listen to veggietales? um, used to they don't watch them much anymore but I myself find them funny boo hoo moo moo a-choo moo moo wonder how long it will take to compile thios kernel on a p133 it was taking forever last week hours I think its still unpacking this is P166 but with xfs file system jamest say cebu is my FAVORITE song and 80MB RAM a sick cebu a sad cebu im starting to think debian has too much software apt-get dist-upgrade feels like im downloading and installing freshmeat :) debian has 6,000+ packages and mst of them work! most 6000 wow i feel cheated i think its only installing 5500 damn you should complain :P Action: derek really hopes this fixes internal routing issue derek: did you remember to do a apt-get install task-and-the-kitchen-sink it supplies those last 500 rofl i thought apt-get install task-fill-my-hard-drive got did df on your machine and select misc packages to fill to the brim hmmmm Penguin Computing restructures, lays off 25% installing nautilus now thats funny i cant get it to do anything but crawl on my pIII 500 128mb RAM why would i want it on p90 96mb :) jamest: where are you getting htis info? nautilus 1.0.4 is cool me has no broswer now so im living vicariously via you now the first from slashdot the second from newsforge noy this kernel is crinching away biy xfs file systems rock fsck now gnomeprint bombed so doing dpkg --install on it for error sigh this is gonna be long night heh you had it pulling from ximian and unstable didn't you Action: chillywilly installed woody base form debs by hand resolving dependencies by hand now getting trying to overwrite blah so screw you man, you don't what a long night is :P um no actually i think ximian has its only apt line in sources list and its stable # See sources.list(5) for more information, especialy # Remember that you can only use http, ftp or file URIs # CDROMs are managed through the apt-cdrom tool. #deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free #deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US stable/non-US main contrib non-free #deb http://security.debian.org stable/updates main contrib non-free deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US testing/non-US main contrib non-free # Uncomment if you want the apt-get source function to work #deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free #deb-src http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US stable non-US #deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 r3 _Potato_ - Official i386 Binary-3 (20010427)]/ unstable contrib main non-US/contrib non-US/main #deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 r3 _Potato_ - Official i386 Binary-2 (20010427)]/ unstable contrib main non-US/contrib non-US/main #deb cdrom:[Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 r3 _Potato_ - Official i386 Binary-1 (20010427)]/ unstable contrib main non-US/contrib non-US/main derek: the trying to overwrite blah problems I get too deb http://red-carpet.ximian.com/debian stable main ick so any ideas on this overwrite thing? derek: you have to manually install those packages as it stops the install the last line has nothing to do w/ source what's thopse danm non-frees doing in there? it's the binaries for ximian derek: the ones that fail because of that, you have to manually install with --force-overwrite and --force-depends and their libgnomeprint and debian's testing/unstable libgnomeprint despise one another Action: chillywilly says remove non-free or else ;) so what do i do? nickr is right derek: see the ones that failed? you have to force the install do what nick says? THEN redo dist-upgrade? derek: do dpkg --install --force-overwrite --force-depends /var/blahblah well, sure, do what nickr says I hope this kernel will fit on my floppy derek: then after you do that you do an apt-get -f install /msg nickr try and get him to get naked with computer and signing loudly heheh Action: nickr is a dpkg masta bitched that it had dep problems but installed anyways so now what now do apt-get -f install then go back to the dist-upgrade again and cross fingers ok doing 395 packages to go i.e. not installed/removed wehn i went form clean potato to testing i swear i did apt-get dist-upgrade watched 2 innings of diamondbacks game came back answered some questions from dialogs went back for an inning and it was done when returned it think apt is like crack the first hit is free and when you are an addict the fallout begins all i can say is im glad im eternally screwed i mean after all there is no 'technical support' for free software w/o owners derek: its just that your upgrading to unstable which is not setup to be clean or easy yet compared with our commerical package at work we have for something MAJOR problem i call help desk get routed to timmy techsupport who i tell up front, i know more about this than you can you get x y or z so i dont mind rape you with a problem way over your head he insists on trying to help so i let him do equiv of pcanywhere to my machine and show him the problem he is amazed that thier product can even do what we have it doing and says he cant help (suprise) but tina techsupport can Action: derek foolishly thinks im gonna be 'transferred' im told tina is busy can she get back to me i let him know this is serious failure users are forced out of system what is ETA on tina he 'doesnt know, tinas schedule' i said an hour, two hours, end of day? im told i dont know so i hang up tell my boss call big dog over there and complain So basically you're saying you get better free software support he calls big dog big dog on vaction for 3 weeks calls our sales rep (no longer with company) so me and another programmer dig out manuals and find a vague hint of what problem maybe and create a hack work around wow, AZ gov employee's can read? rock on you guys haha we are county not state employees :) ah ok i get ready to leave for work at like 5pm my time 7pm thier time and see an email KS state employees can read too, we just kan't spell from tina we are too busy to call you back today hopefully you arent mad it was laughable especially seeing how we pay 25,000 a YEAR for techsupport "Hi Derek, holy crap thats damn near an FTE in minnesota I wish I made 25k a year for tech support (where this company tech location is) I hate men. Tell me how you like being someone's bi0tch. I could give incopetent advice to a company for 25k a year Love Tina " jamest: rofl, i will forward the mail if its that good i cant recall i just read first line that was we are experiencing high volume of calls get this we were first gov to use and built whole govt module for them we get at LEAST 5 calls a week for govt asking how we like it as they are going to buy it based on our recommendatoin and WE give them good recommendation why? i told management tell them no more recommendations until they fix shitty techsupport as this is not first incident i was told that would DAMAGE the relationship and we rely on them i was like what the hell we DONT get support from them lol so what are we RELYING on? i finally gave up vendor lock-in is such a beautiful thing they wont let me talk to these call ins Knock, knock, knock as they are afraid i will tell them its screwed up they did start a user group on yahoo and boy am i vocal there :) and funny thing is i went off Hi, I'm tina from foobators Inc. and EVERYONE on the list said "we are sick of being bi0tchs" About time, you here to fix the problem? help us a major oil company is willing to use GPL interfaces im going to write to the mainframe for this product the guy is MAJOR happy Um, no, I'm here to drop off your spandex mini skirt, tube top, bright red lipstick, and high heels. he is like are you REALLY gonig to GIVE it to us? HOS we have been asking this corp for 5 years for this funcationality what does lilo failed please reboot mean? um don't heh, they do good business was just kidding derek: doen't trust it. or at least wait till I've gone to bed btw: since im doing so much bitching http://www.adaytum.com is the evil corp qhat do they make? what makes them evil? what i often forget that being county employee is OPPOSITE of elsewhere eveyrthing we do is public record not intellectual property hush hush there's at leats some honor in working for "the people" ;) they are an OLAP engine provider chillywilly: shhhh! like hyperion, cognos etc ah only specialized for budgeting applicatoins kind of a gnue for OLAP only really smelly :0 actually thier product is pretty decent just over priced (like all commercial stuff) Action: chillywilly really needs to understand OLAP as we probably need to do smoething with that in GEAS eventually olap i dont see being used by geas per say um, not to change subject but i do see it being key to Data Warehousing though http://www.cheapass.com/games.html which is a whole diff tool for gnue : don't you need to support it somehow? um gamesdb or something has all the loki games 9.99 i was told im not allowed to buy by my wife the reason YOU SAID LINUX IS FREE read about the games there you make a BIG deal about it YOU WILL NOT BUY ANY SOFTWARE for LINUX derek but didn't you explain free as in speech? um chillywilly dont go there she was rms you are a hippocrite i cant believe you would give money unexploded cow is too odd to someone that exploits linux like that and tries to make money off it and not give anythign back aaaah she convicted me to NOT buy the game :) thats how convincing it was cool i'm off to bed l8r guys night jaemst just play freeciv thanks for helping night thank nickr, not me :) i think nick and chillywilly might be able to get me rest of way through it or chillywilly i just set here and enjoyed the show :) jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201180.flinthills.com) left irc: [x]chat its been sitting on settup up python-base for some tiem when should i 'worry' nevermind well I wish I could compile this kernel on a faster box it started going again :) I shoudl've left this harddrive in the Athlon 800MHz box this is gonan take forever chillywilly (danielb@d81.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: BitchX-1.0c17 -- just do it. chillywilly (danielb@d81.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. *sigh* P166 is sloooooow latest redhat interchange is about to be released.. should be damn hot has a wizard ;-) quicker to setup interchange? wassat? http://www.redhat.com/software/ecommerce/interchange/ MiniVend no browser dude Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch its the best GPL ecommerce software ajmitchie hi Mr_You we should have an ecommerce package eventually hey ajmitch Linux moya 2.4.3-jfs #1 Tue May 22 20:24:21 EDT 2001 i586 unknown ;) I git it up and operational fot er, got I hate regular keyboards a php hook into GNUe would be nice, but akopia is VERY nice.. should be easy to integrate akopia also someone could doa PHP forms client s/akopia/interchange/ chillywilly: i know well its gotta feel like a website.. shopping cart, etc.. ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.143) joined #gnuenterprise. and? GNUe can do it man Action: ajmitch checks out /. for totally clueless posts about loki ajmitch eh? chillywilly: not looked at the news? well duh I am outta commission right now don't have much installed on here and I hate lynx heh