damn dirty gnu communist hippies that got offended *sigh* Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:02:21) reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. hey reinhard smeon asked me about the Austrian dollar and its equivalency to the IS dollar er, US huh? there is no Austrian dollar you sure it wasn't the Australian dollar? in Austria we have "Shilling" and from next year on "Euro" oh sorry well that's just what they said shows how little I know Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch chillywilly: you have to read this http://news.linuxprogramming.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-08-16-002-06-LT Search for the text "not so nice" glibc release notes for 2.2.4? yep drepper is a jerk on this i can only say when you hear people talking about others you can learn a lot about the _talker_ rather than about the one that is talked about yes Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. you guys read the glibc notes? of course why are people just discussing it now though? it is in skushdot now? it was on Linux Today for the last couple today er, days it was on heise newsticker today k hmmm the biggest german-speaking newsticker it is rather old news actaully I have insight into this they are a bit slow sometimes :) he's a bastard Miguel is being as jerk too de Icaza I found it to be very inprofessional unprofessional of Drepper to put that crap in release notes very childish too chillywilly: fitzix is online kewl he's still up sheesh dumbass RMS should just start a company to boss people around well dumbass is rough heh but I haven't read GPL v2.1 like freedevelopers.net? how many employees? employees? i don't know how many are officially emplyees at the moment its pretty weak to try to boss around a part-time *free* developer about their code.. hehe Mr_You: woah dude you have it all wrong itis GNU software RMS is the leader and he's only there to make political decisions to endure freedom ensure don't diss RMS, he's not doing ti for personal gain thats the problem what?!? him attempting to steer developers and their work he's going beyond his job no he isn't and some LGPL v2.1 is looking pretty ugly licensing deicsions are his job whne it comes to GNU software you must atlk with RMS that's the way it is here too it si his vision I respect that it has too many holes and restrictions what the GPL? er, LGPL that's justa whole different issue LGPL VERSION 2.1 that's not what he's throwing a fit about umm the steering committee its both well hello and others are commenting on the LGPL v2.1 the FSF ha slegal eperts experts to protect things for us they will defed us in court if need be if they say this license is less buggy and has leess loop holes fitzix (fitzix@dialupA243.tcsn.uswest.net) joined #gnuenterprise. then you should use it hence hello any later version hey barry Action: fitzix nods ehh I was just bitching, but I don't like that he tried to influence developers he influences everyone he has changed my life forever no.. he tried to boss developers it appears who knows but he pissed this guy of f nah becaue Drepper never has liked RMS and he said it pretty plainly at the end: he just twisted his intentions into something evil RMS may be tactless at times but he puts the community ahead of anything else Nick change: Mr_You -> [ <[> Despite what Stallman believes, <[> maintaining a GNU project is NOT a privilege. It's a burden, and <[> the bigger the project the bigger the burden. I have no interest to <[> allow somebody else to tell me what to do and not to do if this is <[> part of my free time. There are plenty of others interesting things to <[> do and I'll immediately walk away from glibc if I see a situation like <[> this coming up again. I will always be able to fix my own system (and <[> if the company I work for wants it, their systems). Nick change: [ -> Mr_You time will tell.. because he wanted them t use a better license....come on now....he;s more mad about the steering committee anyways.. its late as hell I disagree with Drepper's statement on that... we have to protect our asses legally they arestarting to fight us now Being a GNU maintainer is both a burden and a priviledge... dotGNU will be sued by M$...who knows what else may happen most likely at some point, we will be sued - yes... i want MORE RMS involve,ent do freedom is not lost s/do/so some priject are a mess projects like ...errrrm...Gnome heh It would ruel for RMS to go in there and kick some ass :P Gnome is hardly run as a GNU project anymore ;) however, doing something - anything - charitable is a privilage and a burden... I don't see what RMS has anything to do with kicking developers ass? how is he motivating? by puttig freedom first as always putting ummmmmmmmmmmm but, to be part of something, you can't just do "anything" at all... to align yourself with a philosophy, you have to exstoll the terms of the philosophy pretty basic stuff... RMS isn't telling people not to develop Free Software, he not everyone is the type of person who is going to respond to being preached too.. this is a solution? s saying that being part of GNU has some requirements... he's telling him please use this better version of the LGPL don't like it? leave GNU - it's not a residence or anything... Mr_You: how do you know that Drepper was preached to? RMS ALWAYS preaches Mr_You: you don't mind us preaching good GNU philosophy to you do you? ;) chillywilly: yes, but the Steering Committee made the license choice... not Drepper fitzix: I'm commenting on RMS kicking GNOME developers ass to get to work.. ain't gonna do a damn thing.. more deocratic Mr_You: agreed... he;'s whining becaus ehe doesn;t have sole control whose the dictator here ajmitch: not at all but some people aren't interested is my point RMS is not alone on the committee Gnome is hardly run as a GNU project anymore ;) that is not 100% true reinhard: look at Muguel i read the GNU Coding Standards yesterday he;s backing Drepper chillywilly: actually, the glibc committee is very much on RMS' side... he will not call the system GNU/Linux RMS tells you to use GTK as the toolkit when developing GUI interfaces outright slap in the face it's a petty argument... you're look at the technical sutff reinhard were talking political no what I want to say is actually RMS still stands behind gnome mixing software and politics is weird but gnome maybe no longer stands behind rms :( yep Mr_You: yeah but Free software is alwyas political Mr_You: try separating them and see where it gets you... in the end, its the license and software.. all software is political - welcome to the world... no yes btw I lately decided to _not_ call it GNU/Linux M$ doe snot have an agenda? reinhard: :) Mr_You: absolutely, ignore the political end and you'll find yourself in chains... I will call it just "GNU". woops :( M$ is a commercial entity ok that works the only politics they have is normal business relationships reinhard: ok, but people are referring to GNU/Hurd as GNU as well ;) reinhard: hehe, I've started doing that occasionally myself :) thats all these are really, but its not about business its about politics Mr_You: business is an abstraction of other systems that existed before it... most people don't realise the the Hurd is still an active project, i bet ;) Mr_You: nah, it's a bout freedom and that's our mptivaitg factor. imho most systems are abstractions of prior systems... motivating ajmitch: i am not sure (not using the Hurd at all) but would normal users even know the difference? businesses don't care what licensing philosophy is behind their software politics is an abstraction os decision making... reinhard: possibly reinhard: nah they don't care Mr_You: sure they do - it defines what they can or can' let's face it t do making decisions wholey based on politics is rediculous I was tlaking free sofwtare to non-geeks Mr_You: a business that doesn't care is run by a moron they just look at me like I am mental fitzix: duh.. lot of RICH morons Mr_You: of course, but making a decision without considering politics is equally ridiculous woooopdeddoooo you have a $1,000,00 Mr_You: wealth is not a measure of intelligence... it never has been :) I ahve a family and freedom and a happy life ajmitch: would you call cygwin a GNU/DOS system? ;) fitzix: a small/medium size business (most businesses) could care less about Free Software fitzix: duh nit so reinhard: that would be pure evil ;) how else do they compete with M$ Mr_You: and most of those business' DO care to some extent - they have to... they have to at least heed the licenses, particularly now it they have freedom reinhard: how about GNU/Windows? ;) they have a different edge if they use Free software fitzix: THEY DON'T GIVE A RATS ASS... they use it to run their webserver.. why should anyone be concerned? imho Mr_You: it's very simple, if they go over their license count, MS will sue them... all they know is they run that buzz word OS called Linux Mr_You: ask all of the businesses that are being audited right now whether licensing is an issue fitzix.... you totally missing my point you're saying that politics is not and should not be an issue - I'm saying it's innescapable nope I'm saying the average small/medium sized company doesn't pay any attention to license philosophy.. aaah, debate debate is good Action: Mr_You hates debates that go side ways. And I said that a business that doesn't is being idiotic, whether they are wealthy or not... and why? Action: chillywilly huddles in the corner rocking back anf forth how is that being idiotic? arrrrrgggggg Mr_You: Let's say you own a business. just reading the posts on the heise newsticker how is not knowing about Free Software beneficial to their little webserver in the corner? lots of people stand behind rms business need to be able to predict things to a degree they have to have tight control they post things like "RMS has done a lot for the open source movement" that hurts :( ot they will not survive fitzix: where have you been for the past 15 years?!?! Marketing makes decisions :-PPP Mr_You: that's not the point that you just said - you said that they don't care about license philosophy... that's an entirely different point... Mr_You: hear me out, I may actually have an extended point here will this change? hopefully.. but marketing obviously plays a huge part in what software is installed and used you guys acnanot evenr agree on what to argue aBOUT absolutely :P and I cannot type to save my life Mr_You: I'm not disagreeing with the role of marketing at all fitzix: that was my point from the beginning yet you said businesses care about politics.. and thats all I was pointing out :-PP Mr_You: and you said that they don t I disagree chillywilly: it's fun watching them debate tho ;) hehe Action: chillywilly sits back for once Action: ajmitch passes chillywilly a pepsi thanks ajmitch:) Let's say you own a business, hypothetically speaking... following me? Action: ajmitch passes chillywilly some popcorn Action: chillywilly passes one to reinhard thanks Action: chillywilly gives some popcorn to reinhard no probs ;) thanks I'll take that as a yes.. no fitzix!! your IT department is implementing a server software, and a client component for your employees... damnit, let me run the scenario here :) Action: chillywilly gets some licorice passes it out to reinhard, ajmitch I didn't say a business doesn't care about politics.. I'm saying THAT MOST BUSINESSES don't care what philosophy is behind their software.. MAJORITY of RedHat installs could careless about Free Software.. they just want something that owrks thx cw GNU is getting more media attention, but not as much as RedHat Mr_You: yes, they could probably care less about Free Software, but that doesn't mean that they don't care at all about license philosophy... fitzix: Free Software is the licensing philosophy that I'm talking about license philosophy is a pretty widespread thing... Free/Freedom Software yes... I know that, but it's only a class of licensing philosophy... businesses don't care sure they do, they wanna maximize profit so they close the code most times only paying attention to one class of philosophy is unanalytical and short-sighted... they don't even read license agreements unless its a very large corporation that has to consider that Action: chillywilly drops sets down his popcorn, soda a chewed pievce of licorice Mr_You: are you interested in running this in a scenario or not? Or would you prefer just idiotically butting our heads together like elk? heheh its your fingers, do the typin I'm not stopping you.. thank you Action: Mr_You is not even talking about software companies.. I'll start over touche fitzy so don't TRY to go there I'm talking about any company like chillywilly just did Action: chillywilly would like to see butting of heads it is more entertaining :P Action: Mr_You is heading to bed Let's say that you own a company - any company. You're implementing an IT strategy... boy a bunch of kids must be starting school this week/tommorow, net traffic way down wow, I own a company does this mean I'll get chicks and stuff? well right now chillywilly: you've alrady got a chick & a family You have clients and servers ajmitch: oh yeah....ok how about ummmm free beer? You have four potential choices for servers: Windows 2000, *Unix, Novell, or GNU/Linux fitzix: obviously companies (mostly large companies) are concerned about M$ price gouging their software.. that is in the works.. but that has nothing to do philosophy You have two for clients: Windows 2000 and GNU/Linux chillywilly: umm, i dunno, caroline might not want you to be drunk ;) Mr_You: let me run the scenario, that s not where I was going not stopping you ajmitch: I won't get drunk, Jesus doesn't like that heh Owning a business, you don't want to get sued, right? chillywilly: then why do you want all that free beer? ;) obviously... anyway... chillywilly: how about free computer hardware? ;) ajmitch: no free beer software though hurry up I'm tired ajmitch: now you're talking chillywilly: open specs, free software drivers... ajmitch: that's better than free beer Windows 2000 limits client connections in license but not in software yet, Unix - it depends, and Novell limits connection licenses in both... Action: chillywilly hands the free beer to reinhard chillywilly: especially as you can get free beer off people who want to use these computers ;) ummm GNU/Linux doesn't limit in either direction... the only scenario where that is a reality is if you can even begin to choose a variety of platforms for a specific application or application(s) if you're using Novell, you have to buy licenses for all concurrent client connections - or else you're violating your license chillywilly: hmmm thanks chillywilly: what brand? ajmitch: I dunno Mr_You: I used to run a heterogenous network at my last job, that is a possibility in all cases fitzix: that has nothing to do with philosophy reinhard: what's your favorite beer? Mr_You: the scenario's not done or politics of course it does well I'm going to bed reinhard: do you like beer? so spit it out now ajmitch: some people don't liek beer Action: Mr_You doesn't care if he's rude its 5am Mr_You: what do you think that the essence of license politics and philosophy is in the first place? chillywilly: in real world i don't drink beer at all reinhard: oh, ok well it's the basic structure of how the software is utilized in precisely that method... they DO care about license philosophy, even if they don't know it Action: chillywilly gives the free beer to Mr_You as he doesn't mind and he needs it to knock him out in cases like Novell, they can't even avoid it it's there - stairing them in the face fitzix: joe bloes company who runs a webserver using open-source software cares less about what the philosophy or even what the license says, he just knows its free and it works good and bobby joe can do some work on it when he needs something tricky done.. the one's that don't care - should expect to be sued if they use proprietary software Mr_You: then you've already admitted that that person is conscious of license philosophy Mr_You: simply knowing that it's free qualifies they care about philosophy even if they don't know it gotta love that argument.. precisely... night reinhard: is there anything you do like to drink? Mr_You: think it over brb in a sec guys Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: night jsut so you knwo reinhard I will make a methods branch in cvs tomorrow mjuwwuuaahahahhahaa chillywilly: too cool chillywilly: italian wine cocktails ok :) Action: chillywilly gives reinhard italian wine cocktails uh that was ah well italian wine || cocktails the show is over not itialian wine && cocktails :) why not frink both? drink 2 fistsed drinker not at the same time :) hehe how's that go ummm well some thought on the GNU/Linux etc stuff beer befor ewine you fine anybody of you know if there is a definition wine before beer what _is_ GNU? i mean what packages belong to GNU and what not? Nick change: chillywilly -> garygnu Nick change: garygnu -> chillywilly Nick change: chillywilly -> dangnu it's like dan gnu and dang nu at the same time go figure woops worng channel hey reinhard GNU's Not Unix :P there's an offical list somwhere off of the main site reinhard: on the gnu.org webpage there's a list of GNU packages heh fitzix: yes but it's incomplete and afaik rms considers TeX to be part of the GNU system for example reinhard: yes, but it's not a GNU package per-se fitzix: yes, the GNU system is more than all the GNU packages rms says X windows and TeX are part of the GNU system, too reinhard: True... hmm... Action: fitzix is not sure how to field that... we're jsut dumb code monkeys under the wrath of the dictator RMS forced to give away our code (psyche) not sure if a GNU "distribution" or several GNU "packages" would help understanding GNU like reinhard: here's how I'd answer that - TeX and Apache and Xwindows, etc... are acceptable parts of the GNU system because they have no pure GNU counterparts... "GNU base package" is kernel, bash, fileutils, findutils, ... "GNU development package" is autoconf, automake, make, m4, gcc... reinhard: they're "Free" to the extent that they meet with the Freedoms that make up Free Software, so they work for the time being while we build other essential parts of the infrastructure... However, they aren't official GNU packages in that sense... they're just provisional, sort of... Apache does GNU software and the GNU system Developing a whole system is a very large project. To bring it into reach, I decided to adapt and use existing pieces of free software wherever that was possible. For example, I decided at the very beginning to use TeX as the principal text formatter; a few years later, I decided to use the X Window System rather than writing another window system for GNU. Because of this decision, the GNU system is not the same as the collection of all GNU software. The GNU system includes programs that are not GNU software, programs that were developed by other people and projects for their own purposes, but which we can use because they are free software. there's a GNU web server I think woah that's what rms writes about GNU software and the GNU system yep yep - and it comes from his NYU speech too... if I remember correctly... yeppers righty o reinhard: but there are things that have to happen to be GNU - there has to be a GNU maintainer or group of maintainers called a Steering Committee for it to be GNU... X and TeX don't have GNU maintainers... that's just one instance... now, those packages are part of the GNU system, but they aren't GNU packages per-se... per-se, oy vey heh rms told me that he never approached Linus about having Linux join the GNU project and that rms wouldn't do so, but that he'd be cool if someone else did it, just because he didn't want to seem pretentious. just fyi. just thought i'd toss that out there ;) i dont know if he has the same personal etiquette policy toward other non-GNU elements of the GNU System ok I don't think Linus would comply though I'm not sure, but I don't think that there's much chance of the kernel people joining with GNU... I don't know.. no way ahh well, time for bed everyone... sleep well you see what Alan Cox posted at LinuxToday? 'night he called GNU ppl communists no - what'd he post? and just sarted flaming away heh - in response to Drepper's drivel? had to breka out the flame proof underwear yes I'll dig it up for you later nighty night this whole situation is really sad... this damn community is going to let Drepper's jealousy of his Steering Committee tear it in half... dangnu: later later man I would have thought that we'd have been smarter than this... take it easy er wait, fitzix is going away eh :) ah well 'night all later night dtm: eh? you don;t like my fitzix? I take offense to that huh? read it again. oh nevermind' i was mistaken! heh - I think he was just clearifying what was happening... although, thanks for sticking up for me Nick change: ajmitch -> ajzzzz np fitzy I probably would defend dtm too though h0h0 dtm: i think he knew TeX and Knuth before, weren't they at the same institute? and of cousre ajmitchy uhhh. and reinhard reinhard's my bud too :) dangnu: well, that goes without saying :) reinhard: who did? rms later all later dude fitzix (fitzix@dialupA243.tcsn.uswest.net) left irc: i dont know if he has the same personal etiquette policy toward other non-GNU elements of the GNU System hmmm. dtm: it was my answer to this arrgh wanted to ask fitzix something and the masta anybody knows his real name? and jamest jcater neilt they're all my ppl I'll kick anyone's ass if they mess with them it's gnu inquisition time man I should go to bed the pepsi si amkignme crazy hahah dangnu: crazy like a zealot/ ? yeah baby! "are you Free enough? with a capital 'F'?!?!" yeeah i tink so you guys dont understand how Free i am -- i will _make_ you Free! tinking is kewl heheh i will _make_ you understand Freedom! and you'll like it, yes you will! oh you will, once you see! no one expects the GNU inquisition! Action: dtm springs one Action: dtm inquisits dangnu you knwo what I hate sleeping sleeping is so useless we need a Free package manager -- so i can execute one command on each of your systems to tell me how Free it is it searches every file's license rating according to FSF apt-get install vrms dewd virtual RMS whoa. that's far out, mang. :) debian specific but ehy would you not run debian? of course see that's the first step that deserces the GNU inquisition you can't run vrms otherwise deserves yep the first step is 'uname -a' I ten to like systems with GNU is the uname Hurd baby h0h0 das da stufff i haven't tried Hurd and will not unless it runs on VirtualPC or Bochs because i'm boycotting ia32 in my house ;) ia32 is counterproductive to my hopes&dreams. ppc? I shall port it for you shea right what do I look like some kinda Roland McGrath I cna only dream can Action: dangnu should be this hyper all the time makses life so much fun Action: dangnu nudges reinhard hey you :P think I can hack up methods in a week? that would be somthing something what version are we targeting oh GEAS masta 0.9.0? reinhard: oh you wanted to know fitzx's real name reinhard? Barry Fitzgerald dotGNU maintainer extraodinaire and FreeDevelopers nut http://dotgnu.org dangnu: yeah ppc at this point dangnu: thanks i have an 8500 server running YDL, a Pismo powerbook running macos 9.1 and later i'll have 10. and much, much more i'm interested in gnu and open source on OSX like rootless xf86 hmmm, but you're running proprietary MacOS dtm that's not cool inquisition time !!!!! :-o NONO I'M INNOCENT burning the midnight oil? dtm btw, we do Free software, open source is for libertarian weeeneees liek ESR ok how about if i shut down Quartz?! oh yeah remove it completely don't ever look at it again and how about if for extra penance, if i redo the distro so it doesn't need tcsh? er? is tcsh non-free? i think so ah yes bad dtm i dont know! i could just persecute its binary as a scapegoat if you like will that please the jury? or you could install debian ppc with no non-free lnes in sources.list lines did you see what they did to Tux Racer? they're making it proprietary I should burn them at the stake yeah i saw that dude, taking GPL software and making it nonGPL is grounds for reckoning what is YDL? you personally should put the head of a stuffed gnu (or a moose or whatever you can find, maybe even a penguin) boiled in a pot on TuxRacer's porch lol ydl == http://yellowdoglinux.com aaaaah I know that one how;s the Debian ppc port? it's great; my roommate is using it on his Lombard we issued an act of civil disobedience -- playing The Matrix dvd on it in software I know the LinuxPPC CEO ya know personally WAR IS BORN dangnu: there is no CEO :) Jeff Carr he's in my LUG dangnu: in fact jeff's the only remaining employee as of when Jason and I quit. and he's the Prez fyi ooooh you worked with him? guess I am a moron he told me hmm that would be a useful paraphrasing of the relationship :) Apple is not worth the headache last I talked to him but hey, the sole proprieter can call himself anything can't he :) what headache? they do not want to work with the Linux community Nick change: reinhard -> rm-lunch this si from hsi mouth so you lived here in WI? they wanna work with grassroots in general, but they've had suboptimal relatoins particularly with the linux community, which was heavily extremely exacerbated by jeff's relationship with them no i didn't i lived here in Pleasanton ,CA oh Jeff caused the bad relationship? but the semi-interesting minutea is that jeff didn't start the fire did I red that right? read well not really - i was kinda vague enlighten me jeff had a poor relationship with the person who was at apple and who is now at YDL named Kevyn wait never mind, ican't keep any of those stories totally straight without concentrating harder than i really want to basically the ppc linux community is __THOROUGHLY__ dysfunctional aw come on one way or another you can do it! hahahaldkjf;wjo klajxlckjsdlkfjlskdjf the story's barely worth tellin there better now? !)IKO:K# ok a little :-I however you cannot fix my brane! you underestimate the power of the GNU inquisition :P oh, will you readjust me? ye p after I do so for myself jhkjhsasdqwhdkjddkAS[IH12E captain planet he's our hero gonan bring pollution down to zero you will readjust yourself? what makes you think it's possible? Action: dangnu is watching cartoon network yay!!1 a;lkjds;jsqj Action: dtm scopes it out it's captain planet Rocky & Bullwinkle is on ours, according to digital cable's TV Guide(tm) interface aw man' I wanna watch Rocky and Bullwinkle and in fact i have verified that it is. heheh no R&B shall be viewed at this household. why? R&B rules dangnu: i dont think i've seen your nick around these here parts before. r&b is .. illogical. eh? are you serious? no. don't mess with ym mind i'm just ABSOLUTELY correct. it's too late for that you knwo me I know you :-o there's no escpaeing it can we be friends/ ? if you remove MacOS and become a member of the church of emacs :P then can we learn to love? once we put down the guns? yes :) and embrace the gnu yes Brad Kuhn isnt an emacs saint yet HAHAHA the sucka! why? chruch of emacs emmebership does not require using emacs btw requires not using any non-free software he should be _disciplined_ afaik he ahs dropped all non-free software since 1998 I think hey btw imho, RMS should be required to do absolutely all work for advancing civilization through software oriented technology, and he should do it all correctly for everyone. and that does include subjectivity of their opinions. seriously? Hmmmm think about that,dan. don't dick with me :-. hmmmmm my gnu inquisition beating stick is near by you'll get the caning of your life my boy :P he should do it all HIMSELF. to EVERYONE'S SATISFACTION. he can't and won't that's rediculous we need 1) a hero 2) a benevolent dictator 3) a scapegoat we have those so could someone else please issue this order to him for me? thanks. nono they all need to be the same person. his mundame name is Richard Stallman, but you may refer to him as RMS RMS is *my* hero he;s somewhat of a dictator for GNU and a scapegoat failing that, rms could code an emacs elisp module which artificially intelligently performs all those roles yes and he's quite benevolent there ya go we know him. we admire him. we love him. we do? :P yes you do. SIGN HERE --> _________ oh but you do not? dont change the subject! that's not the issue here! I need to know where you stand dtm are you friend or foe? your Open Source ways are meant to merely dilute and mask the issue and to be friendly to malevolent capitalistic forces the issue is freedom I was being silly which would crush our bones in its gears! with the inquisition dan, are you getting paranoid? pepsi'll do that to you. it'll also cause your ovaries to shrink and for your nose to bleed. i can provide official documentation. dtm: why do I get the feeling you're just making fun of me dtm: plz i thought we were making fun of zealotry! i mean, i was! am and will! I am a zealot your communist regime cannot stop me! silly a Freesoftware freak of sorts hey i liberated some software tongiht -- i hang out in #macfilez! while the GNU inquisition is a joke ;) Free software is not Action: dtm checks dangnu's blood sample for purity and Freedom is not that is correct, sir :-I you are very confusing dtm mayeb i need sleep yes definately we've been having the same conversation but you're periodically convinced that i'm not :) uh? I dunno where you stand but you do run MacOS it's about as absurd as is reasonable so i dont know how you could take any of it seriously :) yeah i have some macos. Free software? what about free software Free software is not meant to be taken seriously?!? dude, you are totally wacked out. go to bed! ;) can you see straight? how many ascii characters am i holding up? --> 0100010101010101 16 close enough. it is 16 count them ok, off with you! :) if that's what you wanna do. atually 2 if you wanna say those are bits but int acataulity they're still chars h0h0 so nanner nanner it's a giant riddle designed to foil you there' sno one right answer hahha! it's a trap! hence you atre tryint to mess with em again but I am on to you !! it's all absurd! you think you're so smart but you will embrace it! no one expects the GNU inquisition you will learn to coalesce into a pool of GNU! and you will elarn to stop philosophically masterbating some day :P noy ther, boy bah typing is faaaading fasst GO NOW! this is the most weird conversation I ever had tired people cannot be a part of GNU there's a growing faction of the NonTired we're planning on taking over the Free element you can't liberating their source code through an utter lack of lethargy I contorl the inquisition you will be crucified for th eliberation of the source i'm not sure if you're GNU-NT material, dan dan you and i we're the same that's my name don't wear it out for MY NAME ALSO IS DAN :-o !!! btw i've had a lot weirder conversations in here we're no the same i have a log if you like and if you think this is the weirdest you've had, you should record it I remember you have a really nice wit study it for the long haul oh? it si funny have you been looking at my wit!@?! lol *sigh* donut stare at the wit! i have a friend named Derek J. Witt must I kill everyone mayhaps, dan Action: dtm engages the subliminal /msg'ing ;> hahh0h0 maybaps? what happened to perhaps? i dont like Macy Gray at all, and i think maybe that her teeth are not naturally that white. rahter, i dont like her brand of public talnet who is that? talent nobody forget i said anything speaking of nobody, my httpd runs as the user 'apache' done fyi so doe smine mine i use Mandrake, the leader in Open Source technology! grrrrr Ill will bite you except i didn't read the manual .. so when i use mdk i get open sores instead :/ lol cd /usr/sores/linux :( where do you come up with this stuff? i compile it and it blisters my legs man dtm: you are funny i dont know i think it's a finely crafted mode of non-sequitur -- but with a practical application! well see i'm like a cpu that's 99% idle so it runs rc5! sequitur? or i guess seti@home http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=non%20sequitur Action: dangnu watches as it all goes flying over hos head......vrrrrroooooooooon buh bye dan i think you're up for the challenge but you're tired buh bye now. no be refreshed! I was saying buh bye tot thre thing flying over head coz you were pretty funny earlier oh ok yes my energy level is down :/ so then if i flick your ear when i walk by, you wont know who it was I'm not as wuick as you're being er, quick nope I'll be aslepp you'd just go "uhhn?! wudda....hooozat?!" asleep even yep whoo dat!?! shhheeeet man whoo dat!?! is dtm your initials? nosaahh ddb are. yesssah D.D.B. masssah yesssah a;lkjdfs WAZAAAAHH dan so what have you been making yourslef useful at lately, sir? wazza fuzza wazza bear nope I am not useful ok I am a lzy bum just ask rm-lunch i see. when he returns or da masta i'll thank rm-lunch to keep his opinions to himself! he whips me eveytime :( shea right masssa is da besst maaassaa dan, i'll whisk you away to my anonymous overseas timeshare eva for your protection ok from your aggressors where? come tropical isalnd with big breasted women yeah, somewhyere around ther e and lots of booze and beer I like beer but hey well they're just there for the weaving I'm form Milwaukee wat dod you expect you can't rely on them or their organs damn no liver transplats? er, transplants well ok except the livers. you might wanna stay away from those breasts though man because they're big coz they're fulla orange juice -- they can't afford refrigeration who in their right mind would do that? it's not real, man! it's an illusoin ye sit is I live the illusions damn you don;t tuin it you have to learn to use your illusion er ruin use it FOR you, not AGAINST you it is FOR me as obewan says grr, can't sleep, must hack dan, all the love -- it's just for you feel the love the force is trong eith me feel all that love. strong with dan i think you should slow down and just type what you mean. "the force is strong with him. but he knows not how to control it." dan go get yourself a hug failing tha,t an ethernet switch dtm: you really do want the i-n-q-u-i-s-i-t-i-o-n don't you? haha :( you screwed up too maybe you should take your own medicine dude don't peddle that crap here :P dangnu: why are you still up? so dan have you applied for the position of "juggie" on The Man Show? Action: ajzzzz snoozes while typing ajzzzz: he was asking advice for his performance ajzzzz: I hate sleeping ajzzzz: he's nervous ajzzzz: i keep tellin him to just go for it! dangnu: i had to get up - i got too much to hack tomorrow :( dtm: I don't watch The Man Show dangnu: you have to believe in yourself dangnu: me neither! I dunno what "juggie" is silly dangnu: dammit every time i say something, you have an excuse for why you wont follow your dreams as a Juggie! rofl Action: ajzzzz wonders about how much crack is present here tonight dangnu: it's the people who bounce up and down on trampolines, etc and roll down hills all for the Man's amusement dtm: aaaaah ajzzzz: well there's a space between each of my lines and it's just a pixel or two but i wouldn't call it a crack. one problem can't you see it?!?! I don't have any jigs dangnu: dont argue with me er, jugs you're constantly changing the subject -- and it's just that kind of denial that lets the system keep you donw dtm: it is what I do best I argue that's my sole purpose dangnu: here, you take this gee-tar and you go out there and you give em all you got fuck the system beotch and stop distracting me! i have crimes to commit Action: dangnu picks up his guitar Action: ajzzzz picks up his hammer wathc where you swing that thing chillywilly (danielb@d16.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. oh geez chilly'z here! dangnu: chilly's gonna set you straight who's chillywilly? just as he did for me. ajzzzz: you will not question these things! isn't he some raving gnu zealot? ;) yes! hmm uh oh, i'd better run while i remove windows from my computer... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz chillywilly: hi dangnu (danielb@d120.as11.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Ping timeout for dangnu[d120.as11.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net] Nick change: chillywilly -> dangnu I morphed pretty fucking kewl eh? you assimilated chillywilly? watch out dtm, it's the borg! !!! no way! Action: dtm issues an ultra-reversed green tractor beam toward dangnu Action: dtm opens up both nostrils on dangnu stop playing in my nooooose see my wrath? or something? yeah you're a nose picker it's over there. :-o wooopdeeeddoooo ;fakljklam;wio ok my ultimate view of universal reality has been challenged no i cannot trust hte identity of either dangnu or chillywilly just your fingwers in my nose get them out but dan we can do so much good together not with your fingers in my nose you fruit so dan have you been deceiving me all along? has it all been a lie?1 yep you're reality crumbles to dust ?!?!! Action: ajzzzz shoots caffiene darts at dangnu 8-o N000OO that reminds me pepsi break!!!! no dan, say no! Action: dangnu is away: peeeeeeepsssiiiiiiii! DAN. it's not worth it. pepsi cannot lub yew like that! oops ;) dan, come back. 'i'm dangnu and i'm a caffienaholic'... dont leave me alone with ajzzzz muahaha the sleepwalking, sleeptalking madman ajzzzz smells like lemons! Action: dangnu is back (gone 00:01:35) eh? lemons? he's a sour little punk dangnu: you gonna be able to sleep? sure caffiebne does nothing for me ajzzzz: do youy have lots of cats? when I was stayin up before i have a rule - no drinking caffiene once i have none left in the room ;) i can't trust a man who doesn't love the cat.s I ha d0 caffiene had 0 dtm: umm... ajzzzz: why? you can;t toture them then? torture Action: ajzzzz thinks he should leave while still sane nope no leaving dangnu: hey watch wehre you put those things!! i haven't had a tetanus shot in a long time, so i'm trying to be safe here, guys! geez. pee wee herman is a talented actor lol man he has talking pigs. I want what you are smokin dtm plz share i think he taught them himeslf it's the GNU way Action: dtm sniffs i dont see anytihng burning oh you want some of my GNU Gum? Action: ajzzzz peers thru the haze yeah i'll share that but you know what happens to the one guy who always shares out his gum then he doesn't have any left. so you better re-export it once you convert to ABC geez you guys are weird. i dont knwo if i feel safe here. hey dude weird? nah I am makign a new holiday we're the only sane ones smoke a spliff with RMS day dangnu: sorry, i don't smoke ajzzzz: ;) ok raise your hands if you're normal dangnu: are we weird? i count ajzzzz. any others? Action: ajzzzz raises his hand hell yes we are and damn proud of it MUAHAHA dangnu: i am perfectly normal, sane, and in full possession of my faculties ajzzzz: he didn't ask you! he asked me. sorry Nick change: dangnu -> chillywilly bwaahahahahahahaa lies. I cna be anyone I want to be I ama a master of disguise you can't be me. Nick change: chillywilly -> dtm-clone haha! feel *my* wrath dtm I am you you are me i can replace I will replace you dtm-clone: you're not strange enoug. face it :-o ture but I AM PROGRAMMED TO ERASE IMPROVE I am dtm DESTROY 10010010111010100101001001001001011010101110 Nick change: rm-lunch -> reinhard dtm: how many times have i told you "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" someone whip me up a mutant real quick? i need a henchman! Nick change: ajzzzz -> andrewm this good enough? ;) ok aaaaaaah! muahaha, pure evil ;) not andrewm!!!! he's come back form the dead!!!! i hear all this talk about everybody being real busy around here. so i see you're all talking to _me_ instead of coding gnue! being too busy to code, and all! dtm: it's not tim tot code yet so shutup yes it is! having their primary jobs giving increasingly enticing offers so as to dilute gnue work code people, code! Action: dtm fires into the air and waves the flags damn i am coding tonight, what about you people? ;) andrewm: ok stop talking! code! code is a noun _and_ a verb! Action: andrewm has code to show that he has coded Nick change: andrewm -> ajmitch whew I had nitmares about API changes nightmares ajmitch: you can do that by coding me up some code wow dtm-clone: who would dare? insightfu; dtm: nope, sorry dtm the real andrewm i would never do that, dtm-clone dont ever think it i am the real andrewm ;) no you aren't the other one was an imposter! my API is finished; i never change the API. Nick change: dtm-clone -> dangnu my API is still changing slightly :( my API needs to be redisgned redesigned dangnu is trying to dilute the public view of credit for my actions, by assuming a project with a slightly different name. i'd like to ask you all to please call me Dan and call him GNU/Dan lol heh why do you alwyas rip on R er, RMS dangnu's values are conducive to the values of bsuiness, which are not values at all. i am for Freedom. i still demand the right to use the nick andrewm on IRC ;) plz don't dangnu: it's my way of giving respect it's not relaly a rip it's just a parody the nick has special meaning to the members of this channel ;) yes we morn for his apssing what's wrong with using 'andrewm'? as GEAS has been rotting away dtm: he is infamous no help form me not..... BITROT!!! dtm: he was main coder for GEAS damn dangnu you suck yes dtm the borrid bitrot horrid he was also an evil sadomasochistic cantabrian yep he loved to torture me and delighted whem I ranaway when he enter the channel hehe entered i wonder what he is doing now me too.... is he still at treshna, or did he leave the company? if only everyone could keep up wiht jcater's cvs commits then we'd be rocking that guys is not a man he's a coding machine imho or some kinda AI that writes code hehe or maybe he's just not a lazy bastard like me i am a lazy bastard ya think? ajmitch gives inappropriate credit to the actions of sadomasochists, providing a negative connotation. furthermore, ajmitch works toward the goals of romantic comedies rather than of international export laws, which are not values at all. please refer to our projects as "I Can't Believe It's Not Appletalk". Thanks. lol dangnu: yes i am lazy :( well thsi time I sleep dangnu: we should have just about finished scrappy, and the case tools should be half-planned by me already you do whatever i stay & hack not all sadomasochists exhibit harmful behavior, and are traditionally productive Communists. However, many of them are under the age of 13. I'll be baaaaaaaaaaack dangnu: get out! dtm: screw you man dangnu: go find peace, gummi worms, and chicklets :P lol fj;alosi9@_ dtm: yiubye dangnu (danielb@d16.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: i'll be charging for my proprietary irc chatting services and you'll all need a license in order to read it in this channel. cool the license will be written in a language unpronouncable by the human tongue Action: ajmitch wants to have the chance to say 'f**k your proprietary license you evil capitalist worm' and multidimensional thought vectors which require approx. 600 trillion trillion trillion more concurrently firing neurons than your human brain can allow. You cannot hope to comprehend me! hah Seriousness is obsolete! Linguistics shall evolve! In the last 2 hrs of pooptalk, I have already set your species forward several minor ticks on the evolutionary scale. sure Action: dtm cracks his joints we believe your insane ramblings Don't eat me!!!! Action: ajmitch was meant to go to sleep ajmitch: be careful those earrings are darling. Action: ajmitch nods in confusion Action: dtm invites ajmitch to the Interracial Smelling Conferences in Toledo we'll be having an ugly contest and you can be my partner! Action: ajmitch starts running far far away dood, i donut know how my apache is serving SSL. i have only ssl enabled virtualhosts but no conf for it, definately nothing pointing to certificates, etc dood, i dunno about apache-ssl especially on mandrake ;) and who tipped you off to the identity of my distribution?! have you been eavesdropping on my public conversations? dag nabbit!:@(@I you people would be NOWHERE without me!!! yep i been eavesdropping alright hey ya gotta feel sorry for the fat people in movies. starring in them is kind of an enabling relatoinship :/ hehe beached whale type people, you mean? except for the obese communists well yeah the ones with a serious health problem yeah i guess communists are okay. i was taught to hate! can you ever forgive me!??! i guess :/ but aren't communists meant to be evil murdering people that will try & enslave you? you know, like those GNU hippies? you dont liek em either though, do ya?! HAHA i knew it! i was just faking it to pigeonhole the nonbelievers!! wait a minute.. whose side am i on, anyway?! ok reevaluating personal ethics i eat fruit, but only the sweet kind i like laundry and ant farms i like civil disobedience hehe i eat tv dinners when i have to. now, that makes me GNU doesnt it what sort of civil disobedience? on what issues? well whenever someone tries to be civil, you do whatever they dont want ya to do just to try an screw em all up heh and on pretty much anything except Nintendo Action: ajmitch might try & sleep this time especially mario and zelda coz that's be harsh ajmitch: ok later brah good luck. Nick change: ajmitch -> ajzzzz but what i'd really like to do is get an old bat and smack some fruit around take it to the park, etc see how far the seeds go pound em good. neilt (neilt@user-2ivek91.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ hello all hi neil whats the todo's look like for GEAS now Planned for 0.1.0: 3. add TYPE (typedef), needed for consistency of design and elimination of errors in the design database. {classdef} 4. improve include concept for gcd files {classdef} 5. fix the error where duplicate field names pass the parser {classdef} that's all what's left in TODO file Add help file processing to parser. is all that's left in savannah how come that looks like all my work :) :) i would say it's up to you what you really want to do before 0.1.0 i must say i could live with geas be 0.1.0 like it is now basically and switch over efforts to accounting/sc has any progress been made on methods? geas 0.1.0 should have working methods and forms driver that works i will check how methods work now from my understanding methods work now, but if methods code is bad it can bomb geas forms driver is actually a part of forms i thought they did not work ok will, they worked but had some really silly limitations like only string args but the forms people are not working on it and maybe it could help people wanting to do the forms driver when they have a released version of geas they can develop against neilt: yes they are not working on it :( the way i see it we have two major problems with geas right now 1) methods 2) forms driver ack We need to find a way to kickstart both ack? acknowledge (afaik) means "i 100% agree with what you say and have nothing to add" ahh can we recruit a python weenee for geas? s/weenee/programmer/ lol we need somebody that knows geas _and_ knows forms afaik nobody exists that fits this description currently ok, ok i will look into it :) but i want to release geas before Action: neilt casts spell on jcater "you will only work on geas driver from now on" [07:47] MSG541 i am trying everything i know :) ok now really reinhard: methods: chilliwilly wants to start on that we need to add a todo to geas that is to clean up the "not null" syntax and i don't hink that we will fix those limitations like only char parameters in the current code although i am at a lose on how to do it ah re : not reinhard: reinhard: i understand cw wants to do it reinhard: but he has other commitments right now reinhard: is there any way we can help him and re : forms driver i think it will help if we release geas now yes i really want to help him that pesky tab key again :) we have done a lot of stuff in geas since the last release i think a release of geas is due now we have ? shall we call it 0.0.6 or 0.1.0? yes we have all those new datatypes improvements in the configuration/build process (for all those mandrake etc. who had problems whit 0.0.5) ahhh thats right, i forgot i would call it 0.0.6 have we stressed tested geas if we do not release now people would need cvs geas to run our gcd's or volume tested or reliability tested no but imho that's nothing a 0.1 release calls for you know let it run for 200 hours processing transactions if you look at what others release as 0.4.0 for example orbit i think 0.1.0 is a humble version number for what we have now :) i am not sure that i understand that 0.1 release means, but i think we have some responsibility if we are going to move the 0.x version number to have some higher level of testing that was being done in 0.0.x jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ Action: neilt casts spell on jcater "you will only work on geas driver from now on" [07:56] MSG541 most gnu projects only have 2 version numbers like 1.0 not like 1.0.0 neilt: :) sorry guys I've been busy with life here recently morning jamest and it's only getting worse whats that famous jamest quote? hehe GNUe is life life is GNUe :) ah i thought you mean "i've been mad goat raped" :) or something like that neilt: all this version number problem is probably because of the way geas was built a better way would have been to have a certain part of geas built good and proper tested and then released as 0.1 then the next part added, tested, and released as 0.2 but now we have a collection of provisoric code that does everything a little bit but nothing is really perfect ok, i am ok with releasing a new version at whatever level you think fits with the other stuff gotta go jamest: i know how that feels, i've been busy also, not trying to complain, just influence jamest: i hope things get better :) well, stoopid-boy me I started taking classes neilt: good point about fitting with other stuff maybe you 're right that well one class in an effort to reduce my stupidity levels all parts of gnue should only get 0.1.0 when they play together well sound good, later all neilt (neilt@user-2ivek91.dialup.mindspring.com) left irc: bbs jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: [x]chat jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ reinhard: in a sense we will only have 2 digits x.x if gnue came on a cd you would buy a x.x but the x.x.X is the developer kind numbers in a sense Action: reinhard thinks that derek is talking in his sleep :) dnZzzz: would you agree to make a "big" release for all gnue tools to be 0.1 at a time? at the moment when the system is usable at a whole, and all parts play together no 1.0 is the big release 0.x releases mean there is something there that works well but is missing parts perhaps 1.0 would be something you could find on a shelf to purchase question is can we call something 0.1 as long as forms doesn't work with geas properly yes it would be NICE for 0.1 of forms and geas if they played perfectly together but i dont think its mandatory must go bye bye dnZzzz (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Leaving ToyMan (stuq@c5300-4-ip246.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. came to work this morning to find that my good friedn and carpool buddy passed away over the weekend most disturbing how old nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: late 40s early 50s not so suprising as had problems with weight etc and had some issues, what was nutty was went to hospital to have surgery to correct things and died on table operating room table that is just not news i expected to hear today thats all gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: Ping timeout for gnuebot[mail.libertydistribution.com] gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest i just saw a sig line that you would really apreciate ___________ Hit any user to continue. hehe. hehe :) oh oops brb reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. im installing and testing lyx on windows so we can use for documenation here :) BUT it relies on cygwin which is a BEAST good thing is that i will have good environment to test geas :) hmm I need another dev box I think chillywilly (danielb@d186.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. bbiaf dern winders actin up 'gin dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: [BX] Tony the Tiger uses BitchX. Its Grrrrrrrrreat! hey hey aw darn Action: chillywilly pokes dtm with a stick reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: reinhard is fighting with hylafax hylafax: 1 reinhard: 0 :( yeah you ever use mgetty+sendfax then? haha i know nothing about all that stuff i made it work half a year ago with the help of a friend today it stopped, after i installed some updates of some basic packages on my system :( nickr: why you laughing? nickr: jylafax is an utter bitch er, hylafax well I just think the score board is funny jamest knows how to set it up can mgetty/sendfax work with fritz!card and can mgetty print out a fax on the printer when it comes in automatically wow quantum leap is weird reinhard: I think so yes you ever use gfax? no the gnome fax program isn't that just a front end? yeah still have to go throught all the other fun :P just asking i just have set up a printer queue well like that, not exactly actually :) btw what is the gnu printer spooler? afaik lpr is bsd, isn't it? I need to import this into my cvs repository reinhard: I like CUPS Common Unix Printing System it has a BSD client though with lpr I don't got that installed though you can configure it easily via a web interface Nick change: ajzzzz -> ajmitch morning ajmitch hi chillywilly: did you look at http://www.freesoftware.fsf.org/style-guide ? ummm I had it open then I totally forogt about it lemme read it now that quantum leap episode was awesome Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy brb reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ah, users anyone here have a palm pilot? um what you need ? from a pilot user? and which pilot? i dont have one directly in front of me, but have used regularly in the past and could get off my arse and go look at one in teh office if need be wanted to know if they were worth the bucks thinking about picking one up um i think they are IF you use them i would NOT get a palm i woudl opt for the handspring personally as it is palmOS more memory way cheaper um 8MB was 199 for palm 8MB Visor was 199 hmmm maybe they came down :) palm was smaller too used to be the 8mb palm was like 299 visor 199 and I only want one if they're really usefull visor has nice additional plugin module support (*dont know if palm does) i LOVED it but i learned to live out of it for phone numbers and todos seems like they'd be usefull but then again so do half the gizmos sold on infomercials to the people that buy them and calendaring if you are type of person that used a day planner btw: 2MB palm is 129 or would use a day planner if they werent so bulkly then you would use it and like other wise probably not ah, cool was about to say day planner too bluky :) i.e. they are SPECIFIC use for the most part whoops, i need to leave i wouldnt buy one, then be mad cause it didnt have killer applications to choose from :) etc thanks for the info l8r if you want way to store todos, calendar, phone, address its for you :) l8r jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: [x]chat nite all reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: EOF from client nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr_[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: EOF from client nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr_[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: Connection reset by peer nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hey dres how is life going? long time since i spoke with gnucash team will any of you be in SF? hey dneighbo at lwe? hey chillywilly those people in #prosapologian are jerks and extreme radical calvinists and not to mention ban happy don't disagree with them or you'll be banned hello dneighbo pretty good. dneighbo: hmm. maybe bill and dave. chillywilly sounds like a place i should visit :) neilt (neilt@p70.usnyc5.stsn.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ hello all hiya Mussii (eu@200.212.195.177) joined #gnuenterprise. what a really stupid annoying luser question?> I wanna have some fun with #helpdesk hi Mussii hi neilt hey, how goes it come on help a guy out? no one has anything? hi!! Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet? Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. Mussii (eu@200.212.195.177) left irc: Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr Nick change: chillywilly -> dangnu dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Ping timeout for dres[4.18.171.42] Action: dangnu is watching his Green Bay Packers gosh they are suckin dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left #gnuenterprise. cw: there doing better now yep aren't you a Bear's fan ;) ? haha 2 yard line oh crap flag dres (dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. nope, not a bear fan not since we lost the frigerator but being an old Chiefs fan, I hate Denver aaaah I take it you don't like the Packers though either? Packers are ok w00t they sacked him wooops dropped the ball a bit dangnu (danielb@d186.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error to dangnu[d186.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net]: No route to host chillywilly (danielb@d82.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt (neilt@p70.usnyc5.stsn.com) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[p70.usnyc5.stsn.com] nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: EOF from client nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. yo yo see my Packers whoop up on 'em? w00t no but debiasn installer is goat raping me right now arfghhhhhhhhhhhhhh Action: derek hates this part of linux WHY do i ALWAYS try to upgrade machines when i am in a shitty mood poor masta i will need lilo help later assuming i didnt wipe my win partition Action: derek will cry if windows is toast not cause i want it but because some critical data on it i dont have backed up sure sure well put it this way Action: chillywilly notes that masta may really be a closet windos user only reason im installing debian right now is im replacing LAST windows box with debian and was going to enter all my bills into gnucash on it and got wife to agree to switching over to linux again i just need windows for emergency conversions kewl what argumen tdid you use? at that point the ethical one? um no sex for you unless you use debian rofl oh wait im married thats not a valid argument ;) roflmao jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: jcater stretches and yawns... how is everyone? deeeewd hey derek: hi chillywilly: debian has 'install' issues :) Action: derek needs to pimp slap it regularly to get it to install a linux install should not take 3 days :) and lots of swearing debian is easy to install derek: see, if it was GNU/Linux instead of linux, it'd install in an hour or so with no swearing it is well debian installs in about 5 minutes really Debian GNU/Linux silly just getting it to do ANYTHING is what takes forever :) the only distro to call it that chillywilly: not true what other distro? Stampede GNU\Linux is called GNU\Linux kewl guess I'm wrong anyone seen jamest around lately I haven't talked to him since early last week perhaps i stand corrected jcater: he was here most of the day then said oh crap i have to leave and hasnt come back he as here wasn't he? ok im stuck in endless loop on debian its trying to install things and it says Action: chillywilly LOVES this episode of quantum leap The /etc/X11/XF86Config file was not created. Press [Enter] to switch to graphics mode. why would it configure X? This may take a while... it doesn't do that ]you have it up and running already? Press [Enter] to continue... this it gets error message like tne times and says Unable to communicate with X server! and repeats the question HOW do i get it to stop? as hitting enter keeps me in the loop on the4 debian install? or i did install then rebooted (as it asked) it said simple or complex setup i said simple derek: there's an unmarked button usually found on the front of the computer press that and it will stop it asked me to install which tasks i picked some of them and then it went to install them it got some errors and said debian isnt perfect this is normal repeat this so repeated it and got no errors but it went into configuring X and now is 'stuck' using dselect? i could ctrl-c it probably but then what no dselect is evil just switch to another VT and shut it down went to do that at first fuck it ctrl-c worked good thought it would kill the apt but it just killed the X program asking dumb questions no biggie now saying hey stupid fuck xserver-vga16 xfree86 3.3.x? task-x-windows-system-core Action: chillywilly is using 4.1.x task-gnome-desktop potato ? task-gnome-apps failed yip potato FOR now until i can get installed upgrade to testing and get networking to WORK then i will upgrade to testing you have the bandwidth um a shitload just do ti now while you got the base installed ok tell me how to configure networking as it was bitching X 4.0.x is easier to configure dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 gasp sigh ummmm gack what's wrong now? emacs is not part of the base? ;) apt-get install emacs20 nope too big i was teasing I know :P Action: chillywilly slaps derek with a trout ok i try to edit /etc/network/interfaces auto lo iface lo auto eth0 iface eth0 inet static address 192.168.100.30 netmask 255.255.255.0 gateway 192.168.100.90 and i will get following error uhuh /etc/network/interfaces: option without interface what gives/ chillywilly tek support help me out here im dying ok ok it all looks good though I dont see any options without an interface somehow it doesn't like your networking options doesn't think they are part of the interface apparently not but WHY? i have almost identical options for my other machine and no issues what's it say in /var/log/messages Action: derek starts to think i probalby have a friggin isa card in this box and im better off pulling out my finger nails than fucking with it isapnptools so how do i verify my network card is installed and being seen by linux? hmmmm i dont know if its isa or no does it load the driver? Action: derek really doesnt want to crawl down and look chillywilly: i dont know lsmod tell me how to know if it loads the driver no no driver loaded it will give you a message in the system log soundcore the driver will be listed when you do lamod lsmod that's it? nls_cp437 (well this might be it) pcmcia_core unix I don't think so thats all nls_cpXXXX are some code page driver thingies what kinda card you got? dont know kids stole flashlight heh give me 5 minutes this is Linux you need to know yip isa netgear EA201 i think can you help? or should i whip out the red hurt 6.2 disks? nooo don't do that well can we get working in next 20 minutes or so? probably yeah ive already burnt about 2 hours longer than i had planned so i run isapnptools you got anything better to do? what do you mean either you know how to do this on debian and help or i whip out red hat and i do it that way i have lots better to do and why i dont want to spend half the night screwing with it I never had an ISA card but I can figure it out but if you know how to procede i will rough it out and try to get it to work as i would RATHER have debian on this box you just need to find the driver I'm lookig now try this /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x280,0x300 # NE2000 at 0x280 and 0x300 it is an ne2000 clone I think might be thr tulip driver though device or resource busy hint: this error can be caused by incorrect module parameters, including invalid io or irq paramaters yes it is tulip or ne2000 i recall that much just not recalling which you need to knwo the right io addresses too *sigh* welcom to the fun of GNU/Linux it is an ne2000 card I am pretty sure oh wait my bad just try one io address not 2 of them I got that for an email....but the guy has 2 cards you only got one try /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x280 or /sbin/modprobe ne io=0x300 or same thing if you know where the card lives i think you need to specify irq too if i remember correctly aaaah yeah and there are utils to see what irqs are taken probably and which addresses yeah ISA right? Action: derek is vaguely remembering isa card config hmmmm yip apt-get install isapnptools they might help I'm thinking dmesg woops hehe isapnptools is installed it seems worthless lemme see it just wants you to enter these values in a config file pnpdump you try that? nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: EOF from client says no boards found me too but I have no ISA i KNOW this nic is installed and works even under linux sure as i had working under red hat RedHat is just easier 10 minutes before i install debian nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. don't give up yet you just need to know io and irq you got /proc/bus/isa directory? nope hrrrrrm derek: RedHat, RedHat, RedHat... Rah, rah, rah noooooo modprobe tulip Action: chillywilly slaps jcater with a trout better than slapping me with a tulip (or ne2000 clone) chillywilly: same as ne jcater: whatever http://www.linux.com/enhance/hardware/hdb.phtml?id=359 that does not work irq 3 / and the 0x300 odd thing is i cant recall if i set it pnp or not BUT i know it worked under linux before as in today so i shouldnt have to dick with it Nick change: jcater -> jcStore Action: jcStore is off to get scooby snacks there ya go i dont have dos or windows so it gonna happen if i have to fsck with that its easier to go to redhat ain't nah should be able to do it if you knoew what it was set to youd be smoking how does redhat do it though? hold on cat /proc/interrupts which ones do you have free yeah figured taht one out :) the interrupts sorry for not sayihng so earlier when I removed winsders off of here I wrote down all the hardware info io addresses irqs etc