ooh, you have women? got any job openings? dres (dres@4.18.171.42) got netsplit. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) returned to #gnuenterprise. andru: So, what do you think about Drepper's drivel? hey dres havn't seen it yet maybe i hsould go read it heheh Action: chillywilly remains silent now you do that... want a URI? bites his tongue Action: ajmitch staples chillywilly's mouth shut you mean to tell me you haven;t read it yet you have an opinion of it? yeah ok who said that!?! Action: chillywilly looks around what address? http://news.linuxprogramming.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-08-16-002-06-LT ajmitch: Party at my place. this weekend. if your in chch Should be really good andru: hmm, i'll be busy all tomorrow supposedly a couple of hundred people coming couple of hundred? we are celbrating linux 10th birthday heh estimate turn out of 350 we got lots of djs heh, sounds fun and scary.... but it's tomorrow, right/ at treshna? yeah I've bubblewrapped the servers for protection Taking the workstations out hehe we did some linux promo work down in dundin last weekend. with a whole lot of pengiuns, linux servers etc at a microsoft sponsored event heh, cool ;) got some good feedback from it. which was good. worth the effort. ack - you mean those systems just ran a kernel - how can you have a server with just a kernel? pity i missed it Action: fitzix thinks that perhaps you could run everything in kernel memory using modules - but that's just stupid GNU/linux what is this "linux" thing hehe :) he anticipated my wrath hehe . yes chilly i did oh no you were just reacting to fitzix Action: chillywilly needs to read faster the entire GNU/Linux argument is defunct... try building a Linux based system without GNU tools one day and you'll see... there's also that little thing called philosophy that all these people seem to have forgotten about you know, that ethics thing tehe int Ethics () { if (drepper) return 0; else return 1; } I've read dreppers comments and? Sorry guys but i fully agree with him as i've seen this a lot in the free and open source movement well a similar opinion fitzix, chillywilly: prepare the stake and the piles of kindling hehe already don ahead of time I knew what his response would be hehe. i've been preemted you had a prejudice before you read it just admit it you never likes RMS liked you can't state my opinion like that ok then go ahead cause your not fully aware of any emotional feelings i have I belive software developers have rights. And i belive in protecting those rights. just as much as the users have rights Id be pretty pissed of if someone came and demanded I changed all my code and start telling my contributers to make design alternations it is part of the burden of being in the GNU project the project is designed to have parts that work together and if working together requires design alterations, then so be it The beauty of the GPL is that if design alternations are needed then the code can easily be forked to carter for that new need and if the other one proves more successful development can be cut to the old one well I write the ocde for the people not for personal gain I want to nake a difference in the world make Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy Most open source coders, but companies, and individuals. they code cause they love doing it. And they are doing so they can have a feature they want yes practicality beofre anthing else not the way I wanna live my life andru: Define what rights coders should have, please... Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy andru: Should those rights include the right to take away the rights of others? depends on the rights depends who owns the process andru: So then, if I own the process, I have the right to take away rights? if you own the process. if you write the code. then you as the coder can license it how you want. if people dont use your code cause of a licence. so be it Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:02:31) andru: That sounds like another industry that once supported the world economy andru: In fact, you just described it to a T fitzix: drepper didn't want the rights to be taken away. he wanted its licence to stay the same andru: Take a guess what that system was dont know andru: Drepper's a whiny little bitch because he took control of a project half-way through and got replaced by a Steering Committee - end of story andru: Slavery andru: there is NO ethical economic incentive to allow the negation of rights - it's a trick question there is long term. andru: Yeah, and slavery was very efficient, should we reinstate it? andru: A LOT of people got very rich off of owning slaves, what's so wrong with that? no it is not effective. If those people worked as workers, then there income would be included in GDP. andru: Sure it is... it powered many countries economies for CENTURIES... as slaves it was not So the GDP was mis represeneted. So if they were not slaves, GDP would be higher as there expenditure and incomes would be higher To abolish slavery = higher GDP. andru: Yes, but that's numeric imagery - you're playing with statistics. No i'm not. andru: Was it more or less efficient for slave owners? More efficent for slave owners, but less efficent for entire econmy andru: Let me ask you the question this way: Is it beneficial for slave owners to be able to own slaves? so then we should free them because they would help the economy andru: Do they make more profit owning slaves? and slave owners only made a very very minor part of ecnomy not because slavery is wrong andru: that's a sick view of it fitzix: your not understaind the economics of this. If a sub part of economy makes money but a large potiental income is lost it isn;'t good it means the total income of the country is lower than what it could be hence worst for economy thereforce slavery is bad for economy andru: I realize that it isn't good - but economy only works like that in our system... think sociologically, the rest is just statistics andru: However, make that argument in 1850's United States and see where it gets you andru: The argument is moot anyway, I'm not advocating slavery at all - and that's the point... That was before that scott by the name of adman came along. little understanding of economics was present in 1850 I don't think the reason slavery has been aboished in countries in the world is for economic reason anyway British understood how damaging slavey was for econemy. it was one of the main reasons of the american war of independece the south was banned from having slaves. andru: That's irrelivent - we have little understanding of economics now as well... andru: Given this - how can you still argue for a system of slavery? A system which allows others to take away the rights of the people? You are missing the point. Stallman is trying to remove the rights of people Hence I was against him doing that andru: How? andru: Stallman is making suggestions based on GNU's policies - if you don't like it, fork the code and leave GNU If you are a coder and stalemen demands you make changes to your code, then by defination, he is infringing on your rights as you wrote the code andru: I know how the system works, I'm in it on a daily basis andru: You don't have to listen to stallman about code changes... andru: The glibc Steering Committee made a political choice (license change)... and they made it based on the compromised system andru: No one was "forced" to do anything here andru: In fact, Stallman doesn't recommend code changes - he basically sticks to the political recommendations forced is a matter of interpretiation and physical strength. andru: How was he forced? interpret this for me I made a statemnet not a assertion yes, apply it to the matter at hand, please How was Stallman taking away someone's rights? (Keep in mind that Drepper didn't found the glibc project) particularly, when Stallman wasn't the one who ultimately made the decision, the Steering Committee did - and Drepper was part of that Committee I know how SC's work - I'm part of one Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch Drepper feels his rights are been taking away. A licence change was forced on glibc. Infact the SG in essence takes rights away from glibc developers as it takes away there right for unhinded free descion making Its jsut because we belive in different things fitzix I belive in adaptive economic rules. I belive things will evolve as they should without having to interfer with them to make it happen andru: I, too, believe in adaptive economic rules - I don't believe in chaos andru: I believe that leaving greedy people to do whatever they want will produce stratification and oppression andru: My view is supported by history i don't andru: Then how do you define the current state of humanity? misplaced andru: Btw, you just said that greedy people will not be greedy if left to be greedy, you do realise that, right? hehhe :) andru: Drepper didn't found the glibc - the glibc is not "his"... andru: and all projects (even OSS projects) gravitate leaders to their head to make decisions... Yes And I belive those leaders have the rights to make there own descions andru: This means that this applies to ALL software projects, not simply glibc... andru: So, how does a Steering Committee take away the rights of the people when it's far more likely to actually represent a bigger segment of the community? SC is not leadership StormBringer (Eugene@194.84.60.1) left irc: Leaving andru: I disagree andru: Being a member of a Steering Committee - I lead with others alongside it can be leadership. but often it isn't. esp in goverments what are you SC for> ? andru: Governments are corrupt for other reasons... there will always be multiple leaders andru: DotGNU sweet :) yeah - it's a lot of work.. heh but, I have an interesting front-row view on all of this I use to be in a committee.. arr lots of work andru: Don't get me wrong - your arguments are very good, I'm just an incesent arguer - I find this quite enjoyable hehehe. yes andru: Yes it is... but it's worth it andru: However, to take something from someone, they have to have had it at some point - what right did Drepper have to the leadership position in glibc? andru: Where's Drepper's legitimacy? There are many forms of power. and leadership. and where it is born. yes there are andru: I disagree Dreppers leadership comes from his hard work and resepect from other developers. If contributues see him as the leader then he is, yes the leader. Leadership roles change and leaders in a project change. andru: I walk into a major corporation with 200 lbs of plastique strapped to me and blow the building up - who had more power, me or the leader? I've seen this a lot, espesicallyt with large projects inside my company andru: Yes, and the developers are supporting the Steering Committee now... The project may have 3 or 4 leaders during hte life of the project. And this can be anyone. Often people who were leader can find they are doing minor insignificant work I can be tell someone what to do one day and the next been told to do minor insiginifican work from another person the next day. the leadership role evoles, moves and is completely dynmic. As envoirment changes different leadership abiliteis change with that andru: Also, being leader doesn't mean you have the right to dictate rights - it just means that you have the role of leader at the moment... proprietary rights ownership is another issue IF you dictate rightts you risk losing your leadership rights Only if you fall out of mandate with the community... like yesterday. had a database emergence recover. A couple of us. It was some upstart 16 year old who no one thought could solve it solved it and took over the owneship and leadership. however, if the community doesn't see that they're being stripped of their rights and give up on a leader who wishes to ensure their rights (RMS) without understanding the motivations - then it's their problem... Now he didn't cuase the problem, nor did he have any previous rights or ownership to the system andru: And now that he solved the problem, does he own the system? but he was leader cause others put him there. now if he made descions that infringe our rights. so be it fitzix: yes . he does. until another leader fills his place when they can fill the role better formilised positions of power only get you so far in this world. this is the free software devleopment community. we al lgot to have fun and love it. we dont want to feel like its a hassel to do this. we have to love it. enjoy it. and work with it. Code like we have neever coded before andru: Sounds like a recipe for chaos to me... what rights do you have in this system? Do you even know? andru: There I agree with you - I don't want to feel like this is a hassel... andru: But to get there, accept one thing - formalization happens, it's part of the cycle... yes in some forms in may appear choas. To see from outside it can be said to be choas. as have been said before. but on the other side of the coin you an say, well this was achieved. we thought this would ahve been impossible andru: Once you've accepted this - you can control the system if you choose to formulistion is the natural depedences of systems to evole to support the current envorment. andru: yes, but when has anything informal achieved anything? (Think hard on this, it's a trick question) Both a good and bad thing andru: Agreed... but it happens... the damage of formalization is when it outlasts it's need... like a useless organ in a body andru: Therefore ignoring the state of formalization is a recipe for disaster yes i belive informal does achieve things. Art is often informal. andru: I'm not saying that there aren't problems - I am saying that Drepper isn't representing them andru: Art is an informal act within a formal system - inherently formalized (even if it's not appearent) Let the coders deside who represents them. If all the coders say, yes the SC is what matters. then so be it andru: The color spectrum is formal... maybe i do need more rules to the choas we live in.... andru: And the person to say that there is a problem should not be Drepper - he is a) a GNU maintainer which means he should be above this childish idiocy and b) not in a position to be unbiased... andru: We live in a complex system - which is simply made up of many simple systems... I think he went on too much about it. but this all very healthy for the community andru: Drepper shouldn't have placed those issues in the release notes - it's backhanded and childish... andru: I disagree - the community is being misled by people with their own agendas people can make there own descions andru: I can't say much, but Drepper left A LOT out of his statements andru: Yes, but when they're intentionally mislead - they can never make good decisions... on phone... reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. hey reinhard hey look at htis link guys http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/uploads/27000/27549_winrg.swf Its like windows on my desktop bah that's shockwave flahs crap yep I don't proprietary software er, use Action: ajmitch is not gonna follow that url I'm suprised someone hasn't written a free swf player. It can't be that hard, the player is very small they have it is just not up to snuff with the latest shockwave format why not? :P there is a free sw flash library, i think, someone has to write a player flash5m that is oh that's kewl arr you guys missed it. its like a complete windows desktop in flash. it very very funny. you can run applications and stuff. in flash and it does funny stuff wow that's some beast you're using just to hear the ms start up noise makes it all the worth it [01:25:24] -andru- VERSION xchat 1.8.1 Linux 2.4.6 [i686/1333MHz] 1.3GHz yeah sweet machine nice I going to get a 1.4 next week :P how i get to find out how fas your computers are? hey andru you're back? my comp faster than yours chillywilly.. hehehe yes. i've been coding madly.... well for as long as i can rember actually andru: my is freer than yours hehehe only just I ain't got no shockwave plugins I got realplayer and swf installed. Thats it Course still got hte odd mix of open source licences, like apache, mozilla, etc do you have non-free in your sources.list? you do use debian right? I wann see your vrms output apt-get install vrms yes i do have that. thats where i got mediaplayer and swf from. Ithink? i'll install that I can't find any refs to a free flash player virtual rms :P ok someones been installing software on my computer that an't mind mine problem with a server. People install stuff. So theres about 15 items there you can own machnes, but you can't OWN software :P I dont own this machine well then I dont control what goes on it. a lot of people install stuff on it. So it gets stuff put on it like jdk, rar etc but i dont mind i'm awear of the lciecing agreements for almost everything in the non-free and agree with them bah ah hah the one i didnt know about was the mysql-manual http://www.swift-tools.com/Flash/ why isn't that free... arrr well everyone, time for bed 'night No non-free packages installed on obfuscation! rms would be proud. see you later fitzix l8r dude heh later all i cna't remeber if i was halfway though saying something before as was intrupted by phone call l8r fitzix doesn't matter we all know you;re an open source freak :P andru: If you think of it later, tell me or something Yeah but i'm really attached to my games like heroes of might and majic and coutner strike. later all night fitzix (barry@sdn-ar-001cthartP113.dialsprint.net) left #gnuenterprise. seems that open source isn't doing well either economically SF is going proprietary SF? ESR is selling out sourceforge? SF is getting proprietary addons yep sourceforge? yep the core SF will be open source LinuxToday check it out still bad its hard out there. for a lot of companies I need to pull my code off of sourceforge I dont like sourceforge a huge amount companies have annouced slowing of software purchasing there's greatbridge.org which is postgresql home like sourceforge hmm. does ODSN own freshmeat? savannah.gnu.org :P I think VA shoulda stuck with hardware so do i selling software is a dead-end there'll always be a market for physical goods but software is ethereal and non-rare its a low margin market they could build up a sizable revenue base. and use that to keep the support of software going. there isn't much revenue to make from sourceforge VA was high end though. It an't low margin at the high end They should've pushed the service side of it more than the actual software side It only low margin for your PC market. they had the perfedct model sell hadrware the software they can get for nothing yes. its a shame. Hopefully they surive. a world without out slashdot every day?. how scary is that they're up shit creek now, without a paddle anyway i'm off to play some games. bye then out to party. later people hehe Nick change: andru -> dru_cs slashdot can rot for all I care freshmeat is what I'd miss:) I second that slushdot has had it's time it is just for the trolls now i hardly use freshmeat me either freshmeat is useless to me I read it constantly its interesting to see what people release I'm a new release addict screenshots! apt-get is what i use to get software ;) hehe me too apt-get doesn't let me read propoganda or see screenshots if it is not in debian than it ain't worth getting which is what I use freshmeat for there's other places though who needs screenshots? weenies like nickr I need screenshots. Action: chillywilly sucks lol er, ducks Yes, you do suck. so do you beotch haha nickr is now my personal beotch :P you scare me chillywilly ajmitch has always been my personal beotch I think nickr is mad at me now I'm not mad at me, it just seems stupid to me that you don't like freshmeat. fine then I'm stupid I guess you guys have a different attitude toward things Action: ajmitch thinks chillywilly should be careful about who he calls his beotch I just don't read it well actaully I used to when nautilus html component worked and I would use the news tab I would read freshmeat are at leats skim it for anything good s/are/or there's no decent free software :P nothing worth browsing FM for, anyway ;) nah, the html component is just not in debian anymore too much 'noise' on FM, the good software announcements are swept away by the heaps of crappy s/w thats a very strong judgement that I don't agree with at all chillywilly_ (danielb@d107.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d94.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by chillywilly_)) Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly too bad, live with it :P ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.42) joined #gnuenterprise. Since it doesn't affect me, it won't be difficult. Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy brb reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. hey hey if I make a branhc and you bas 0.0.6 on HEAD then I can't hack head right? so why not just use the branch now ? my understanding was we make a branch and base 0.0.6 on branch as well as 0.1.0 later oh ok and you hack on HEAD ok good I am reading a bit I will make it ina few well at least as now i a m sober again it still sounds sane to me heheh so it must be right :) you weren't sober before? yeah chillywilly go get some HEAD not quite yesterday late :) lol can you specifically branch geas module? that's allowed right yeah nevermind Action: chillywilly slaps himself chillywilly: from my understanding geas is not a module in cvs hmmmm * chillywilly slaps himself <-- Now you are getting the idea of HEAD hey but when we tag geas it doesn't effect forms or some shit Action: derek advises NOT slapping yourself w/ that trout ;) tim ney gets director of the gnome foundation reinhard: yip is he a good guy? something is foul in denmark he is working for the fsf :) er? just dont know where denmark is aaaaah goodie whether its FSF or Gnome Foundation now we all may guess why this was done casue Gnome is getting too open source derek: i think the original was "there's something rotten in the state of denmark" and miguel is a butt munch san francisco is sure to be 'interesting' on this front as the tim leaving fsf then reappearing at gnome is 'odd' uh he left the fsf? tim is no longer fsf? miguel name calling on RMS on 'slashdot' there is 'something' going on why did tim leave? not to mention an obsession with dotGNU (FSF) and mono (Ximian) to rush for .net there is some weird stuff going on i dont know that he left i used to talk to him regularly now you're being a conspiracy nut he stopped responding to ten@gnu.org i then got mail from brad that he (tim) no longer would be dealing with the 'public' and anything i used to communicate with tim on i woudl now use brad as the contact from the press release for lwe i went to procure computers what;s wrong with dotGNU, we have to protect ourselves you're smoking something if you think that M$ cannot extend its monopoly they said no one knew who to talk to Mr. Ney is well known in the free software community for his past work with the Free Software Foundation, where he was the managing officer, and as a popular speaker and advocate. this is past tense afaict which is ODD as Tim always did it in the past which means to me he WAS NOT there i heard 'indirectly' so its not authorative hmmmm that he was no longer there i have heard many versions of why dictating them here would be gossip so i refuse i planned to get the full story in SF then yesterday this popped up out of the blue and really suprised the crap out of me thus 'something is rotten in denmark' just which denmark is to be determined why do you say denmark? is that som sorta expression that I am not getting lines from shakespeares hamlet ohh duh he (hamlet) returns from a trip to home (denmark) and all sorts of stuff is giong on behind the seen er scenes he outcrys something is rotten in denmark later when he finds out what it is that is going on he crys to be or not to be as he doesnt wish to face it hopefully free software developers wont be using that expression when tehy find what the real stench is so you think some heavy duty shit is going on with the FSF? in a nut shell, yes something there seems to be an apparent tiff between RMS and Miguel over what exactly im not sure how severe it is im not sure and what other dynamics play into it im not sure and what of Drepper? i think that is just part of it ohw does he play into it? ah well miguel seems to side with him directly in communicatino i have seen on the dognu dveelopers list and states taht similar reasons are why he does not care to associate with rms any longer miguel said he did not like RMS anymore and would not call it GNU/Linux yep this si sucked up er is fucked up Also, I wouldn't want to maintain two separate architectures and two separate user interfaces (fat client and web client). The only thing I would enjoy less is starting the debate about which one to scrap. that makes no sense gfclient is thin what is that from? the discuss list some ken guy who I have no clue who he is hmm maybe I haven't gotten that email Ulrich is telling the truth, which is the scary thing. I do not want to work with RMS anymore (for other, but similar reasons). I realized too late that I should have listened from other people who had been burned in the past. I will keep writing free software and I appreciate some of RMS's comments and his early vision. But his new vision is now blurred with different objectives that I do not agree with or am sick of. Miguel. that is a direct quote from the 'main monkey' yip now how he wont work with RMS yet will serve on the board is quite the trick you pull that form the dotgnut archive or slushdot? slushdot what is his new vision? that makes no sense RMS has never waivered in his "vision" this ken guy doesn't understand that GEAS is thin-client based apps he the most consistent guy I know yeah I replied I dunno if my fd email is on the list though it may bounce the only arch. is corba, etc.. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.42) left irc: Ping timeout for ra3vat[195.239.66.42] then I'll change it to use th emsoe one the whole point of the xml description was so that it would be adapted to other interfaces aw crud I think it bounced what if you used a web server as a message passing mechanism? HTTP? yeah I guess that could be done we want to allow for a bunch of methods that would be asyncronous CORBA is not going to be the only thing it is just the first thing that was done yeah but derek or someone was mentioning asyncronous message passing HTTP can keep the connection persistent if the result is to wait.. asynchronous means you do not have to wait doesn't it? oh synchronous means the reply would immediately follow ok, well it could be asynchonous also I guess.. but you could encapsulate an asynch communication via CORBA? sure would have to keep a stack of pending jobs I gotta crash night Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: night ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.42) joined #gnuenterprise. dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) left irc: Ping timeout for dtm[m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com] ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.42) left irc: Read error to ra3vat[195.239.66.42]: No route to host Nick change: derek -> dnZzzz Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch ajmitch (ajmitch@p4-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Read error to ajmitch[p4-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz]: No route to host ajmitch (ajmitch@p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hey dtm Nick change: chillywilly -> cwzzzz Nick change: ajmitch -> ajzzzz skeeter (mpeters@cs26224-244.satx.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout for skeeter[cs26224-244.satx.rr.com] skeeter (mpeters@cs26224-244.satx.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. cwzzzz (danielb@d107.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: neilt (neilt@dialup-63.208.64.150.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ morning all morning neilt Task 190: Add help file processing to parser. is that still valid? yes its partially done but i have had second thoughts that help file processing should be in geas my current thoughts are that help file processing should in the sql python program i wrote to load default data into the sql database yeah actually i think we agreed on that you may be right i cant actually remember so from my understanding no need to do something in the parser? will i should remove the code that is there so lets change the task to remove help file processing i just wanted to propose that :) from the parser you think you can do that today? or is it much work? it will be after 8pm utc but i will try ok cool thanks it does not look like cw checked anything in last night? no i think he did not yet do the branch anything else? I have to go no later have fun :) l8r neilt (neilt@dialup-63.208.64.150.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) left irc: Nick change: skeeter -> skeeter|work neilt (neilt@dialup-63.208.64.150.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ reinhard: you still here? yes since we seem to not have a lot of imput for accounting i am going to make a push to improve the spec for accounting byt just putting in the docs what I think we need, then we can review and discuss, rather than discuss and then put in docs you ok with that yes it worked fine for base stuff so why not for accounting i am going to be working more on specs, not gcd's ah ok ok with that, too i need to get a better feel for how it will all fit together before i can comment on your gcds so for me it will help reinhard: do you understand the difference between ledger and journal? my understanding is that a journal is a list of complete transactions which are all balanced and a ledger is a book where these tranactions are collected and every account has a page ok thanks for me the journal and the ledger always were more or less just two reports from the same database it seems there is a lot of overlap in meaning journal is sorted by, say, transaction id and ledger is sorted by account disclaimer: this is _my_ understanding of things some people call journal, a specialized ledger, or sub-ledger or are these different not 100% sure if it's correct a specialized ledger is something different what is that oh no i think it's called a sub-ledger i don't remember specialized ledger we have specialized journal and we have sub-ledger neilt: what is what? subledger or specialized journal? what are the differences between specialized journal and sub-ledger ok there are kinds of transactions that occur very often like getting payment from customers my understanding was that "mr. lazy accountant" wanted to not have so much work and he found out that for all payment from customers the account on the one side is the same: the bank account so he didn't even mention the bank account on the journal for every transaction but only for the sum and wrote (imagine hand-writing accounting) only the sum of the whole list of transactions into the ledger instead of the amount of every transaction so a ledger has both sides and a journal may only have one side i don't think so a journal always has both sides since we dont do hand accounting any more i dont see the difference except that the ledger is summarized but a specialized journal does not show both sides for every transaction neilt: the difference between? the difference between ledger and journal the difference is in sorting it's the same data basically so for a computer there is not difference wif i am tyring to figure out what to call a file or an object yeah ok so we lose journals we have ledgers and sub-ledgers that's why there is no ledger object in gl.gcd and we have transaction files well we have journal as a "header" object over several transaction s will we have to have a ledger if the module name is gl :) why did you use journal instead of ledger ? just a sec This is a journal: ----------------------------------------------------- transaction account debit account credit ----------------------------------------------------- 1 1000 50.00 2000 50.00 2 1000 70.00 2010 70.00 3 2000 80.00 1000 80.00 ----------------------------------------------------- [08:11] MSG541 This is a ledger: ----------------------------------------------------- transaction debit credit ----------------------------------------------------- account 1000: 1 50.00 2 70.00 3 80.00 Sum 40.00 ----------------------------------------------------- account 2000: 1 50.00 3 80.00 Sum 30.00 ----------------------------------------------------- account 2010: 2 70.00 Sum 70.00 ------------ this is my understanding of things using irc as a whiteboard :) ok so sales transactions -> sales Journal -> ledger (by posting) from a database view the journal and the ledger are redundant they containt exactly the same data but (from my understanding) the ledger should only show "posted" items and the journal also shows unposted items so my basic data source is the journal so the sales module creates sales transactions then the sales transactions can be imported into any accounting module exactly so we need to, if accounting is installed gather sales transactions and move them into a journal then we post to get them into the ledger i would do the interface on the transaction stage of things but that may be the same object, just with a flag updated neilt: yes. think you got me :) so that way the sales module does not need to know about the account numbers only the transaction file has to have enough information for the accounting system to determiine the account numbers i would have account numbers in the transaction file because that "enough information" is not defineable for example it might be the item nuber of the sold item or the area of the customer or the sales rep that sold it so all of the lookup stuff for region, or sales man or product type that has to be mapped to account number is going to be in the sales module ? i would do that so we will have to install accounting for all systems or at least part of it and simply put an account number into transaction file because we will need a account structure i see 2 possibilities 1. we don't provide account structure at all in sales module you just enter the account number, and that is not checked against anything this is how my current system works or 2. we have a base_account object like the base_item object which only contains account number and text for use in other modules that send data to accounting module i think we should provide a generic structure to break sales into 2 or 3 sub-categories and put these categories into the transaction file and let the interface or accounting system map them or we provide a mapping process in sales but i cant imagine letting a sales order entry person select account number as raw data i think other systems have item.accounting_group and accounting_group.account sales entry person can just select a predefined accounting_group but there can be a lot of transactions fed into accounting module i have seen it done by manual entry, but the systems i have done recently are all geared to closing the books in 1 day and not having a bunch of accountants go thru and audit all of the transactions not only invoices s/audit/validate/ right and how do you set up and manage a lot of accounts if each sub system has there own look-ups and accounts you will always have that problems no matter _where_ you do the lookups this is also why we need to have labels on the forms that are in the database you will have to have different lookups i would like to have 3 or so fields that we define the name of neilt: you're running open doors wrt labels for me :) for sales that could be region and salesman for example then the appear of the sales or invoice and the clerk just selects a pull down then we determine the account based on those two fields the accuracy goes way up with this type of deisgn and we have a different interface to payroll then? as long as the defaults are the same data then we can map them together that is a data entry approach as opposed to tightly linked object approach payroll transactions have completely different dependencies right each subsystem will have its own mapping like this and a couple of runtime defined fields yeah that are used but then the mapping should be part of the subsystem imho technically yes, if the sub-system can determine at runtime if GNUe accounting is installed then it does the map, if not then it only populates the data in the transaction or uses some default that is hand loaded Action: neilt is running out of time why not always do the mapping? ok have to go nevermind wont be back for several hours think it was a good discussion good continue this later so i can lay down a bit now :) yes i will think about always doing the ampping later l8r neilt (neilt@dialup-63.208.64.150.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) left irc: reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. jcZzz (jason@HubS-mcr-24-24-112-3.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: work jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. thierry (thierry@AMarseille-201-1-1-10.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. hi there ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.33) joined #gnuenterprise. anil (anil@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hello !!! jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. howdy hi james hi we need some help regarding the installation of GNUe-Forms could you please help us? what problems are you having? it is unable to detect pyXML though it is installed do you have multiple versions of python installed? setup.py in GNUe-Forms is unable to detect the above yep python1.5 , python2.0, python2.1 how did you install pyxml (what command?) I used the rpm available at sourceforge which rpm did you use? (For which python version?) pyXML0.6.6-1 PyXML-0.6.6-1.5.2.i386.rpm ? yes ok, what command are you using to install gnue tools? ./setup.py ? yes $./setup.py install I got geas working properly, can you type 'python' and tell me what version it displays? 2.1.1 (sorry about the delays.. I'm at work :) ok, you installed pyxml against python 1.5.2, but are running gnue against 2.1.1 So, we either need to install the 2.1 pyxml rpms or get gnue running against 1.5.2 but the latest version of pyxml is only 0.6.6 ick there are no pyxml's for python 2.1 try to run "python1.5 setup.py build" instead of ./setup.py ok I hafta run to a meeting i am trying with the old version of pytohon I hope this works thnx I'll be back in 45min to an hour if not Nick change: jcater -> jcAway dneighbo_ (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dood its rough day today jamest / jcater before end of day we need to talk dtm we should probably talk as well Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. anil (anil@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) left irc: Client Exiting skeeter|work (mpeters@cs26224-244.satx.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout for skeeter|work[cs26224-244.satx.rr.com] Nick change: jcAway -> jcater thierry (thierry@AMarseille-201-1-1-10.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: [x]chat hi howdy hi dtm you here still dtm.... werd nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: Connection reset by peer dneighbo: that's really bad about bkuhn's family :( nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. i would send him an iCard but i dont know if he'd send it back due to the fact that it was generated in a proprietary fashion literally that is what prevents me from doing so ;) same with rms in the past i think they'd be way better off if society was composed primarily of programmers, but anyway.. dneighbo: how are you doing im good lots brewing neilt (neilt@dialup-166.90.64.134.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] bbs dneighbo_ (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: BitchX: it does a body good ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.33) left irc: Client Exiting hmmm did any of you guys work at NetCertainty? Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: hello hi neilt dneighbo (dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: BitchX-1.0c17 -- just do it. ajzzzz (ajmitch@p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajzzzz[p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz] brb reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. ajzzzz (ajmitch@p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d16.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chilly question yes? Dan. Mr_You: you what's up, gentlemen? dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. calgon take me away dneighbo: werd werd to yo mutha sup g muny straight werd up cuz does anyone have any comments on a phpGNUe API that would have limited and extended functionality as a GNUe Forms Client? i think thats WRONG approach why? i think somethign of value going that direction would be a a native geas php driver as that woudl allow any php application to access gnue backends ok, yeah thats pretty much what I mean.. ie: make geas api availabe to php in same way that postgres, mysql etc do you could build a GNUe Forms Client or something on top of that? Mr_You you could the problem is you dnot want to be rewritting forms and making php do the work of a forms client is kind of ugly i will discuss later must run away sounds good phpGEAS API ;-) reinhard: help file processing is removed from geas now just checked in neilt: thanks reinhard: do i have any more todos before release? let me look dneighbo: were you interested in having phpgw be a client for that stuff? i think we can do 0.0.6 this weekend dneighbo: do you realize that phpgwapi can be embedded? reinhard: cool the todos for the parser that are still left are oh derek's gone. oh crap sitting on this machine where copy/paste doesn't work let me look neilt: please look at TODO file cvs is up-to-date right i think we can live without them neilt: yes i think we can live without them for 0.0.6 looks good to me k you know about any todo's at all before release? nope ok i will prepare release today or tomorrow s/release/escape/ ;) after it is prepared i want to test it and release to mac community using Fink a debian package thing for mac's ah you know those mac specific files don't go in the tarball? hopefully we can get a few more mac people in here why not they are text files basically because nobody told them to go in the tarball :) actually xml i think Action: neilt screams at the mac files "Get your butt in the tarball!" lol see if that helps if you can send me a mail with what files should go in tar.gz i can add if it makes sense all files in geas/src/mac and all files in geas/tools/mac ntiffin.pbxuser? yes reinhard: i am not sure it is really needed or not, but it does not hurt i have no src/mac wait a sec ok now i have one :) :) jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: [x]chat yep should work cool, thanks from now on the complete src/mac and tools/mac directories will be part of every tarball if you add files to this directories they will be in the tarballs, too thanks is the mac help file in the geas/doc directory in the tarball can you do me a favour? doc/ directory is in the tarball as a whole probably geas-oidgen -h yes [localhost:gnue/geas/tools] ntiffin% ./geas-oidgen -h Usage: ./geas-oidgen [OPTION...] Generate OID's usable as primary key for new data records -n NUM Generate NUM OID's (default is 25) -h Give this help list -V Print program version Report bugs to bugs@gnue.org ok so this really works when you build geas-oidgen on a GNU system (Linux) you have long options like --help enabled when you build on systems which don't have GNU libc then long options are disabled i am still not sure if this is good getopt_long is a GNU specific extension in libc i should have libc installed yeah but not the GNU version of libc every un*x has a libc aahhh there seems to be that other possibility to add the getopt_long library part to the lib/ directory and let it compile when you have no GNU libc and don't compile it and don't link to that object when you have GNU libc but that adds overhead to the build process on the other hand it makes things more consistent on different platforms dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: [BX] Mr. Rogers uses BitchX. Won't you be my neighbor? neilt (neilt@dialup-166.90.64.134.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) left irc: neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.67.40.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ sorry about that jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: later jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: you here? neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.67.40.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[dialup-209.244.67.40.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net] jamest: hi ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.37) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: i'm having problem to compile geas after excluding help file processing oh i have not even checked it out let me check out and try myself neilt (neilt@dialup-166.90.71.158.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ Nick change: ajzzzz -> ajmitch neilt: can you compile the classdef library after your changes? yes and you no ok why it tells me about i did miss one think in the parser thing opt_help_fieldname is used, but is not defined etc. i should delete one more rule let me check opt_help_fieldname help_fieldname language help tooltip are the things it gives as error messages also i think we should remove the HELP and TOOLTIP tokens from the list of tokens also from lparser.l yep found them in the parser sorry about that, checking in new source in a few (after testing) no prob thanks to ra3vat reinhard: try that updating cvs i changed yparser, but on my system make does not detect a need to recompile? for me that works automatic detection for recompile that is compiles now ok cool neilt: i would propose to remove HELP and TOOLTIP from the list of tokens Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy from yparser.y and lparser.l i did yparser i thought you removed the rule but there is still a line %token ..... HELP TOOLTIP which means that bison recognizes that special tokens ok, let me do that also and lparser still contains those patterns to generate tokens from the text Action: chillywilly kicks nickr hard ouch, what was that for? for saying what you said in #hurd about dogma You haven't provided an evidence to the contrary you want me to rehash why the GPL is better then BSD? No or public domain but BSD != PD public domain is totalyl free GPL isn't but provides protections the freedom can be negated easily No, it can't you can extend and close it Once you have a PD object, no one can take it from you or compell you to stop using it thats not removing the freedom you were originally granted yes but it is allowing one to remove it for others later on whenever they feel like it No it is not guaranteed to stay free software You can't because it is owned by everyone. You can choose not to grant the same freedom in your extensions this is exactly why I have a problem with it, it is no better than BSD It is because it can be used without restriction for something tiny like a portability function it is the only way to go because you may want to port many Free things with different licenses There exists already a gpl xgetcwd oh, ok then I get it why didn't you just say so :P And if there didn't I would have given a version to gnu under the gpl and then released a version pd. I did say so nope you just insulted me as I said, you get all excited when you think theres some conflict with your dogma that you ignore the logical arguments. you said portability, but I didn;t really get what that meant No, I didn't insult you, I made a factual statement from my point of view. yes you did that statement is insulting Its insulting because you allow it to be. I didn't call you an asslover or anything I didn't ignore any logical arguments because non we explained just "portability" none reinhard: ok try that Well you went nuts with the licensing thing and completely ignored neal's and my explainations the fact that *neal* of all people agreed with me should've short circuited your objections :P trying... you guys were discussing the philosphy and why it was better to BSD or something which seems very contradictory to GNU and what most of the Hurd guys believe, not that you did it for technical reasons so that you can port all sorta of free software with varying licenses Initialising business class method handling. error: [methods_unstable.h/444] [load_python_binding] Could not load ORBit-Python module. seemed like you wre tryin to argue for BSD and/or PD without the context in mind justa misunderstanding I suppose my bad :P reinhard; is it ok to have above error at this stage? ra3vat: you configured with --enable-methods=python ? it won't hurt methods doesn't do anything yet reinhard: yes ra3vat: please don't do that :) chillywilly: we were being purely technical until you started yelling about how bsd sucks :) that part is currently broken nickr: you do disagree then? currently = for some months meanwhile chillywilly: I disagree in the context of the discussion. yes, but I was not aware of the context chillywilly: I feel completely justified in making xgetcwd public domain sure, if it to be used in porting a varietay of software with varying licenses Nick change: neilt -> nt-ping-me I only agree in that context only if you want me for somthing heheh :) lol chillywilly: i have more affinity toward PD than GPL, however GPL is the most logical thing to do under our current socio-economic environment I think PD is more 'morally right' but that only works if everyone else believes that too nickr: I agree that PD or BSD qwould be good in a perfect world nickr: hehe nickr: agreed gpl is more 'practically right' if the use of laws is required as it is in our current world reinhard: well, will try then to configure it --with-blame-chillywilly :) ra3vat: :P but it is less moral because it prevents total freedom by depending on a central government lol ra3vat: if you configure without any parameter it should just compile and run fine thanks ra3vat: that should be --with-will-be-fixed-by-cw :) --with-will-be-fixed-by-cw-soon that too nickr: total freedom == anarchy which doesn't work...that's why we have laws upholding ppl's rights...it would nice not to have to dot hat though so I see your point chillywilly: anarchy is effective in small groups nickr: you consider the world a small group? er, not have to make ppl respect other's rights that they do it on their own out of the goodness of their heart i would reinhard: no, unfortunately j/k anywho nt-ping-me: i fixed a last thing yes in yparser.y in the list of valid tokens chillywilly: yes and until some chaotic event wont manipulate someone's lack of preparation into de-evolving back into noncooperation :) but that was only a beauty thing chillywilly: there will always be a need for some system to help reinforce values even if those values are conscious and intrinsic yea, probablty chillywilly: you know the story of the devout person who suddenly suffers a severe trauma and then blames it on God or whatever :( no chillywilly: well you should watch "touched by an angel" :) chillywilly: it's a cliche now how do you mean "blame"? they are angry with god? chillywilly: which i dont like to say about trauma sufferers reinhard: did you check it in? yes human beings are sinful and imperfect and laws will always be required imho chillywilly: yeah. they think God loved them when things were ok and happened the way they expect things to happen. then a chaotic or traumatic condition occurs perhaps even over a long time, and their faith is weakened or wrecked k chillywilly: i woudl think that for most people, even those who are not strong enough to lead in social systems, that if they have a constant normal support group, they'll be totally likely to not deviate the only way is through Jesus christ our lord man alone cannot do it :P lots of people who aren't very strong, suffer traumas but have families, churches, communities, books/media/ideas, which help them continuously heal or delay their FUD and i consider that to be the minimum why do you think we are in such disarray? the world is secular chillywilly: yeah but a lot of people who say that dont truly understand it -- wait til their world view crashes and see what they do :) chillywilly: then see how many say "why have you forsaken me" You can have secular support groups. :P ra3vat: does it work now? when you give your life to the lord you will be taken care of...it is not an easy thing to do though nickr: yeah and they can help enough to keep things together on a continual short term basis chillywilly: you have to also not take it back Action: ra3vat is glad as now it works ra3vat: cool chillywilly: which we'll see as we're tested chillywilly: in life yep, all the time chillywilly: i have tried taking it back chillywilly: that doesn't work. :} chillywilly: i dont recommend it :) I don't agree that secular groups are of limited utility as you seem to believe. nickr: i didn't say that at all. heh, it was funny because when we were in bible study calls the teacher was talking about turning your back on Jesus and everything and he was a new christian and he was going to bible study at his linch and then when his boss asked him where he went he goes "none of you business", right there he denies christ s/calls/class nickr: well i mean humans alone are objectively limited in the most global context, but that isn't to say that we can't do plenty of stuff on our own chillywilly: oh boy we can do wonder through christ, he gives us strength dtm: I'm not sure I compleetly understand that statement nickr: ok sorry nickr: humans can't do everything but can be extremely effective nickr: you can't imply what you were implying, from what i've said :) now I'm really confused ;) nickr: and secular support groups go a long way erm I meant to sday he was telling a story about when he was a new christian chillywilly: so he was telling how he used to be/ ? yeah it was related to how some of the apostles denied christ for fear of their life chillywilly: yep chillywilly: life isn't worth that much, even with torture oh and how John was todl he would be crucified for his beliefs by Jesus chillywilly: it's possible to accept that chillywilly: even in context of thinking through what you'd do if it was a "kill or be killed" situation, like if someone attacked your family chillywilly: i tend to believe that this world isn't that important and that even if my whole family tossed me out then "oh well" then he brought up the point of would you give your life for christ chillywilly: of course most people i've met are so nuts they'll toss me out over virtually nothing at all, so i'm also used to that :) chillywilly: but even if i wasn't, and when i wasn't, i still thought that ajbusy (ajmitch@p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajbusy[p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz] hehe speaking of family I have to go be with mine now :) chillywilly: i dont see anyone threatening crucifixion on me right now, so this is a prime opportunity to prepare for persecution :) chillywilly: ok take care I think it was so cool how he requested to be crucified upside down so as nto to be like christ chillywilly: i'm not familiar with this story chillywilly: i'll have to ask about it I think it was John....I can look up the verses for you ajbusy (ajmitch@p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. I'll get back to you on it reinhard: error: file ../../gnue-config/supply-chain/purchasing/classes/purchasing.gcd, line 37: Could not find class. { ^ ra3vat: i just fixed that a few hours ago have updated from cvs all the apostles died a martyr's death, afaik nt-ping-me: thanks chillywilly: no not all a lot fo them did john died as an old man he wrote the apocalypse as a very old and wise man afaik chillywilly: you have that tool to generate the ChangeLog? well I am not sure then...my memory is bad I can apt-get it cvs2log or something could you update ChangeLog for geas now please? i want to do release tomorrow cvs2cl ok everything else is prepared cool so actually you should even be able to do make dist after you updated ChangeLog geeze I am still waiting for the file and talk to derek wrt uploading nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: Connection reset by peer I have updated the NEWS, you could take from that nt-ping-me: does not work for me. just renewed from cvs gnue-config nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. and in the README there's that magic sentence that explains what geas is uhhuh so you are giving me this job? so you could even write the announcement if you want you did a great job doing this for 0.0.5 don't want to put you under pressure hehe but if you can do i would be happy jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: [x]chat i have not so much time over this weekend i consider this a minor release I can get it done this weekedn sure only to be announced on gnue-geas@lists.gnue.org and gnue-announce (iirc) why? we will have 0.1 in 2 or 3 weeks ok this is more a preview towards 0.1 or like that ra3vat: i'm looking is the release tagged yet? I suppose not eh? ah yes we need to do that, too thanks Action: reinhard makes note to self "let chilliwilly do releases, reinhard will forget things" I think we need a tshirt signifying collaboration between gnue, dcl, and phpgw. What do you guys think? hehe hmmm sure I can print tshirts for $6.50 and a sheet of transfer paper, apiece chillywilly: in any case, please keep me informed what you did and what you left to do for me that would be masta's department reinhard: ok :) best would be to drop me a mail before you go to bed today i will sleep long tomorrow :) I was thinking of printing about 10 or so can do thanks and although i have $0 with which to do so night :) night but i can do all the work reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. can mail em to those who can't attend lwce ok but like I said masta handles our pr mostly ;) nt-ping-me: it errors near EXTEND vendor::vendor { chillywilly: oh you were talking to me? :) yip what would you guys think of a business name of "Foundation Course Consulting"? for my contract IT group wassat meant? hmmmmm your starting a business? does it sound too pedago..peda...pedgogical.... school-sounding? chillywilly: yep kewl I need a job :P chillywilly: featuring the latest in proprietary device drivers and applications! I like it it is zippy ack! chillywilly: and certifications in large companies' one-off protocols nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. you're BSing me right? plz tell me you're yanking my chain no i like spending all day and night cultivating free software and then starting a business that is the antithesis of it! I thought it would be a romantic irony! nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] :P Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr Nick change: nt-ping-me -> neil-phone Action: dtm levels the DCL crew's patented high gauge Thwap-o-Matic 2000 technology at chillywilly Nick change: neil-phone -> neilt now that's some phat-ass thwappage i think my business will also be based on whipping children -- i think there's a strong market ready to cap sklein (sklein@1Cust230.tnt33.tco2.da.uu.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dcl has patented its proprietary Thwap-o-Matic technology in order to protect the interests of its shareholders we're not responsible only to ourselves, you know -- can't be selfish have to horde ideas and rights as a _group_ heheh mdean is also working on a DCL module which will funnel skittles directly into the mouths of those who correctly complete tickets -- that too is another proprietary value add. it's the real clincher. neilt (neilt@dialup-166.90.71.158.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[dialup-166.90.71.158.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net] ;) haha see i intentionally left out the smilies there above as a TEST gotta maintain the levity, gentlemen positive reinforcment techniques licensed from BF Skinner 's estate and now i'm afraid i must listen to Pantera at maximal volumes nickr: HAHA ksljf;lksjfd I should go my baby is waiting for me ah yes speaking of intellectual property, Pantera is now playing the song "Domination" chillywilly: good deal he's sitting in formnt of the door waiting accoridng to my hony honey sklein (sklein@1Cust230.tnt33.tco2.da.uu.net) left irc: [x]chat neilt (neilt@dialup-63.208.67.126.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ wb neilt I plan to do a lot this weekend but today is gonna be my sanity saving day ;) chillywilly: say hi to the fam for me, brah chillywilly: i forgot; are you attending lwce? no I have no money ok know munney I would lik to and if I can get to phoenix i talked with a guy named Manny yesterday but i woulnd't say i "know" him. masta would hook me up but I don't wanna be a burden so, i too don't know Manny eh why go to phoenix? just to hang out with masta? or you mean to ride with him to lwce on ultrashort notice oh oh can I go? yes bum a ride chillywilly: so why not go directly to SFBA then? chillywilly: if you can afford a plane ticket here, you can stay at my house same goes for anyone in gnue as long as you're well behaved i once invited rms long ago -- i'd still consider it :) rms doesn't drive at all does he you had rms stay at your house? and it is still in one piece? no never happened heh he's known for getting into trouble right after the opensourcing of mojirra, he came to sfba for an svlug talk what kind other than not showing up to places what is sfba? san fran bay area due to the existance of many bays, i bypass the common arrogant nomer 'bay area' i like all bays. afaik i heard interesting stories about his talk at svlug at Netscape HQ that was when i started at VA and we coordinated the event as we did with most interesting shit Chris DiBona, to be specific Chris 1) suggested and coordinated rms's presence 2) despises rms's mannerisms and behavior and many of his ideas 3) has an excellent RMS imitation and the funny thing is how other people such as myself have a Chris DiBona imitation, particularly of Chris imitating RMS pretty nutty heheh but i moved to sfba about 1 or 2 days late for the event so rms stayed near berkeley i think I like only some bays I'm distcriminitory about bays was about 1 hr late to the svlug speech nickr: i hear that nickr: some bays aren't clean nickr: this bay is kinda unclean and has sharks and it has Alcatraz For example, I despise any bays in Zambia which is a bummer nickr: oh i see i know nothing of Zambia hey is Zambia where they got the name for the Zambizi Zinger which is a ride at Worlds of Fun in Kansas City, MO? i bet they have snakes in Zamiba Zambia biggins I like the SF bay area Although I could do without the mimes. i've never seen a mime here there are some very talented homeless people. homeless people are not treated the best up in SF i'm aware of the existance of two homeless people in pleasanton i've seen one in my 9 months' residence back ra3vat: found the problem actually found a bunch more problem that did not surface, earlier hmmm i sure am glad that i'm using a fully proprietary OS distribution (macos 9) rather than those yucky kind like macos 10 which badly confuse open software with proprietary software, thereby further diluting the cause yessir, using this fully proprietary OS is the next best thing to using a fully open OS Action: neilt hides his Mac OS X nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] Action: dtm persecutes neilt for his use of OSX, because neilt probably has better performance than dtm does neilt: how much ram do you have 384m neilt: i have 192MB and OSX chokes to death under bare light use neilt: can you explain a little about that problem? ra3vat: the gcd files are fsck'ed up i moved a bunch of stuff areound and thought i checked everything and that was not the case cleaning up now neilt: apparently there's a divx player for osx which doesn't use M$ code Action: chillywilly slaps dtm witha trout for his use of propritary software chillywilly: i will not be slapped with a trout unless it's fully kosher are there any flags that we generally pass to cvs2cl? yes SOME of us stick to our principles! sheesh. what are they mr. tiffin let me look at my script when i go back to using macosx, i'll be so utterly tickled with running free software locally on it k nickr (nick@63.163.68.113) joined #gnuenterprise. dtm: install debian damn you!!! lakjdfl;kjsdf flksjdhfkljhpsf9iufkwjfb debian debian debian woohoo! now in 32 flavors mmmmm flavors but if i install debian then i'll be socially lumped into that category of debian-using zealot stigmatics! kewl that's the idear no see dtm: no, I'm not a zealot and I use it dtm: you balance it out by using something else too nickr: well what's wrong with you then? :) ;) nickr: what, do you run vmware/bochs/plex86/win4lin on it :) ? nickr: you are very disappointing chillywilly: --fsf Action: chillywilly slaps nickr with a trout chillywilly: i love the word "disappointing" eye lubbit neilt: k also loved by me is "appropriate" words that vaguely might imply either a value judgment or a mere conditional evaluation they're great ok i'm laying on the sarcasm too thick, i apologize just being silly. ha nothing personal! pure absurdity for its own sake! I've always hated 'appropriate' oy dtm: hurd, bsd, etc. yeah i despise "appropriate" after my time in adolescene lock-in programs! especially as applied to behavior often accompanied by the phrase "You know what?" how appropriate of you dtm ok now i'm getting into personal tangents Action: dtm swings his tangent at chillywilly! ;) eeeew [[duck, chilly!]] keep your tangent away fomr me a;ksj.,/as from a'ight check this out though i'm in a really odd fringe justification for my use of proprietary software sure one reason is the good old GNU standby of using it so as to learn from it and better replace it to be better equipped to replace it ra3vat: do cvs update and try again Yes, thats why I use it but you don't code but also i have a powerbook and as with any laptop, most models use power management differently although I consider most games to be like movies chillywilly: good grief chillywilly: well then lock me up! all non coders in this truck! ;) haha all coders may pass its going to the special showers well just stating fact it's too bad i'm useless to the cause! you said so tourself chillywilly: thanks for that observation, dan! you want me to dig up the logs? chillywilly: and you're ugly! ;) fuck you all :P HAHASwl;jlkwj especially you nickr fuck the special showers!! chillywilly: you smell like a filthy long-haired hippy, you freaky person cause I still think your a little beotch wait wait wait does chillywilly have long hair!? chillywilly: your father was a hamster and your mother smelled of elderberries dtm: yea NOBODY TOLD ME I WAS SHARING A CHANNEL WITH A LONGHAIR ;) this is the GNUe IRC channel no I don't I have long hair too really long my hair is not long ok anyway the second reason i use proprie-tree software is because of my powerbook. and they're still working on its ability properly sleep with linux chillywilly: no? then you're out of the club. good come on guys gotta have proper kernel support go play with neal and marcus neilt: are we offtopic? ;) they have long hair whats this have to do with GNUe chillywilly is filling up gnue's logs with drivel neal and marcus are cool yeah guys it's all business around here. neilt: they started it I blame it on dtm does that matter? Yeah, and I'm gonna finish it! neilt: get a grip don't make me drive down to chicago to woop yo ass :P chillywilly: Hey. Maturity is about leadership by example. So I'm telling you to be quiet, you poopypants! chillywilly: you are on the team its friday live a littel little dont mind a little fun neilt has a fun quota, guys so let him idle in peace ra3vat: did that fix it Action: chillywilly waits for him to start kicking ppl we're clobbering gnue's irc log searchability bah we're poisoning the culture the logs are so filled up anyway dtm: we're not using enough keywords to really do it even masta helps he goes on his rants every now and then it;s all good yeah especially with those phpgroupware bastards coming in here I say they should stay on their side of the message interface, and we on ours! ;) just look at our CORBA and shut the fuck up yea corba corba! I love corba and xml and xssl ebcdic forever! those php pansies! with their non-corba-supporting apis! neilt: are we ready tog o or are you working on some issues? neilt: yes, nowit works. Thanks Action: chillywilly is release happy happy happy joy joy screw it I need to go chillywilly: i'm done chillywilly: go ahead btw, I think geas runs on OS X right neilt? chillywilly: right see that dtm i do all my testing and devleopment on OS X ?! you better get your os xgoing you're all proprietary softwaremongers or else you're not Really Free! this is an outrage and I'm reporting this to the Mother Ship neilt: you should take boice away form those who wish to fill our logs er, voice ?! chillywilly: ? Action: neilt does not want to slience anyone -v mode for dtm okokokok I'll be good! this is after all about freedom :) Action: dtm issues violence against the nonbelievers, in the name of peace Is there a .deb of gnue yet? Mr_You made some a while ago I dunno where they are Action: chillywilly should learn how to make a deb erk chillywilly: you'll never have her! she's mine! I'd try to compile on hurd if there were a .deb i think we only have tarballs on web site nickr: for all those enterprise deployments of Hurd? nickr: that's silly...just yank cvs might be one somplace else nickr: ;) hey do any of you know if Hurd runs on VirtualPC? (tm) Action: chillywilly cringes isn't that prop? no, it's just made and supported by only one company, costs money, is illegal to redistribute... oh and you dont get the src what's wrong with that? are you a zealot or something? hel yea death to all prop. ppl next thing you'll want is for me to get a job! the GNU inquisition is here i have the right to refuse my own freedom! dtm: geta job or something chillywilly: i knew it! Action: dtm denies himself all rights, including the right to deny his own rights, just in spite of chillywilly well HURD will ensure portability, to say the least because its fairly strictly SuSv2 dude i absolutely love Primus, even though they are proprietary nazis Action: neilt only run virtual PC when bill needs a little more money Action: chillywilly notices nickr's woman has joined #hurd neilt: bill gets none of my money neilt: you can order it without an M$ OS yea she wants to try yeah, ordering. that's what I did. she'll be kernel hackingf before newyears of course I paid for it! what are you all looking at?! what are you saying? that i illegally copy software? Yes i'm calling the SPA i dont illegally copy proprietary software for my own short term material gain. or whatever that modern equiv is nickr: 1-800-r-u-legit 1800DONTSTEAL i think that's M$ heh yea nickr: 1-800-COMMUNIST Action: neilt has win2k and win95 both legal to support the m$ tax 1800SEX0RME neilt: and you're a good American for it neilt: what would happen to the fabric of society otherwise? dtm: thank you presactly Action: dtm plays neilt a song and hands him a plastic flag with a real estate ad on it What's good for one company, is good for America! i know which one of you is against us. I know. and dont think that i dont! because america is about capitalism, in which the state engages in freedom limiting activities such as establishing and maintaining privilage i can smell all you communists a mile away! nickr: you're darn right, and so it's your duty to remain on the business end of the stick of privilege! the Privilege Stick, as it were (tm) wow, is that phrase copyrighted? hehe thats cool Action: dtm loses his aim and accidnetally copyrights nickr privilage means 'private law' you know nickr: good point no! language is a cool thing good to understand it yeah nickr i'm afraid you have no more individual rights -- you didn't act quickly enough. so please step into this laminate. hrmph Action: ra3vat can smell communists even overseas! friggin commuist gnu hippy freaks damn ra3vat: great -- you're our man abroad :) he's in russia he's probably good at sniffing out communism :o no offense sir guys -- you have to be realistic. fundamentally, life sucks. it's _based_ on survival of the dominant. so you should accept limitations to all rights! it's just the Way It Is(tm)! give up now! Nick change: neilt -> nt[PingIfYouNeedMe] here we go this hereby concludes dtm's ethics class. chillywilly: HAHAAHEWkjlwk ra3vat: yes, no offense! ;) ra3vat: we're being absurd on principle, like a parody yes here go haead nt[PingIfYouNeedMe]: whall I tag? ahead shall tag only geas directory I know sorry what was the question ? f ti was ok to go ahead and tag geas Nick change: nt[PingIfYouNeedMe] -> nt[PingToGetMe] yes ok by me i'm done for the evening Definitions and distinctions; Free Market: THat condition of society in which all economic transactions result from voluntary choice without coercion; THe State: that institution which interfeeres with the Free Market through direct excercise of coercion or the granting of privilages (backed by coercion); Tax: that form of coercion or interference with the Free Market in which the State collects Tribute (the tax), allowing it to hire armed forces to practi hrm this is longer than I remembered Action: nt[PingToGetMe] thinks we need more guns and they should be free for everyone :) guns! i completely forgot about the guns! well i had earlier committed violence to all nonbelievers in the name of peace so, general violence is ok i had that covered Action: nt[PingToGetMe] votes for choice Action: dtm allows nt[PingToGetMe] a vote, just this once Action: dtm votes to have infinite votes! Action: nt[PingToGetMe] wants all 16 year olds to get a choice (machine gun or assult rifle) HAHAHA now i have the power! Action: nt[PingToGetMe] thinks the government should provide that for free I should be able to choose submachine gun or grenade launcher nickr: i second that Action: dtm listens to another Pantera cd Pantera rocks Action: dtm fills his blood with virility (testosterone & adrenaline) Action: nickr listens to underworld for that stone-cold groove chillywilly: i sometimes have to enable certain restraint in order to not go berzerk when listening to Pantera but perhaps i feel like going berzerk with them because i routinely exercise such restraint all the time dtm: aaaahhh the old post office syndrome well it also doesn't help to have mild PTSD so that my resting heart rate is ~120 and i can't sleep on my left side coz it shakes my body :} :} PTSD? hee hee something must be done about that! chillywilly: posttraumatic stress disorder ;) post tra yea it puts the "fun" in dysfunction why do you have ptsd? Action: nickr nerve-staples dtm but i mean, something's gotta be said about a band that says "ALL THE MONEY IN THE @)!#* WORLD COULDN'T BUY ME ONE SECOND OF TRUST, OR ONE OUNCE OF FEELING IN ANYTHING YOU'RE ABOUT! '@@*( YOU AAAAALLLLLLLLL!!!!!!" ok, geas-0-0-6 is tagged censorship voluntarily added for the gnue kids there are gnue kids? nickr: there could be later! hrm reading our logs in a time capsule you mean for the logs I see scotty is a gnue kid studying their heritage ;) not kids --------> goats so I couldn't say !%@$# in the channel? fuck fuck fuck fuck nickr: how dare you!?! get with it didn I menation fuck chillywilly: mild ptsd comes from living in an apathetic, unsafe, yucky environment and not being able to do anything about it as a kid chillywilly: it's probably at least as common as divorce like where? why don't I have it? like in a crap town in Kansas it depends on your personality too chillywilly: maybe you just dont know it! ;> same reason all vets don't have it chillywilly: one of the symptoms is denial! hee hee Action: chillywilly grew up in Milwaukee and by vets I mean vetranarians err vetrans chillywilly: or you could have something else like narcissism, BPD, or mono nickr: what? :) meeelee walk kay which is alginquin for "The Good Land" lagonquin gotcha er, algonquin Isn't mono what Ximian is trying to give us? 3rd timesd the charm chillywilly: yep you can buy a reposessed crackhouse there from the government for wicked cheap nickr: yeah, those psychos! nickr: they're putting it in the water supply chillywilly: according to jhaas Action: nickr watches gangsters chatttin across the street nickr: heehe nickr: careful! we parody idiotic generalizations about government and social systems, but it's best to leave the gangstaz alone, i think not gangstas gangsters eh? big difference explain educate me gangstas are generally african american or wiggas, and from lover class families uhhh :) gangsters are generally italian and from upper class families i see! lover class families? as opposed to just spiteful bitter families ah well gotta go see my lover family :P yes "my foes, they can't destroy my body." o/~ I will make tarball tomorrow and write the release notes cool unless you wanna do it oy you guys can read typo, don't be dumb nope chillywilly: are you too in the lover class? chillywilly: that's awesome i'm on my second bottle of wine wine! I have some wine mmm this is a night off Action: chillywilly slaps nickr with a trout and a sense of humor oh i see. so you guys are communistic drug addicts lol cya dtm: damn right, comrad who are sympathetic to gangsters and lovers! this is horrendous dtm: it only took 2 days to get it nt[PingToGetMe]: okey dokey ;) nt[PingToGetMe]: don't get too drunk chillywilly: i dont do that anymore i defect to the loyal independant americans in #phpgroupware! nooo! chillywilly (danielb@d16.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: l8r Appearently our influence isn't corruptive enough you'll not brand me with you ill mannerisms s/you/your/ or maybe it's my duty to convert you? btw that would be fine imported hungarian wine yes "help" you "see" mdean (mdean@arc10x02.kcnet.com) joined #gnuenterprise. mdean! finally my loyal honest corn-fed American buddy joins my struggle against these communist heathens! and their corruptive influences their political inquisitions etc food? mdean: dont bother reading the #gnuenterprise logs today. they're utterly pointless. we didn't say anything at all worth reading unless you're nuts. you're not nuts, are ya mike? ahhhh, but you COULD be! I'm insane hahahshsleiw mike i think there needs to be a tshirt of dcl/gnue/phpgw's collaboration finally the walls built on centuries of blood and bones shall be washed clean annointed with a tshirt what? GNUE Choco Groupware? HAHAHAH@#%!) it's a new breakfast cereal! HEHEEP:@lk;s dtm: stop typing with your head, d00d "when i'm hiding, when i need it, it helps me breathe for this handle on this life i dont believe" o/~ mdean: ok sorry ;-) I had GNUe Choco Groupware for lunch Nick change: nt[PingToGetMe] -> neil-away yummmy dtm: I was able to read yesterdays log today, too hey that's great; a new logo of a breakfast cereal it'll have rolled oat GNUe crunchies, with big caffeinated chocolate marshmallows and pretty phpgw shapes and you can't find it in stores anywhere! you have to ask ORBit for it hey here's a good motto for those of us trying to educate the masses on new ways of upholding their freedom. courtesy of pantera. "why would you help anyone who doesn't want it, doesn't need it, doesn't want your shit advice, when their mind's made up to go ahead and die? what's done is done and gone so why cry?" see that's what I was talking about. we should just give up now, guys skeeter (mpeters@cs666916-91.satx.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. just fyi ooooooooooooh, are you a Pantera fan dtm? mdean: Could be. what CD you listening to? mdean: I may or may not have seen them with White Zombie at Sandstone White Zombie: R.I.P. mdean: It might be called "the great southern trendkill" See, mdean likes that 101 proof 100% pure grade A american metal. ah - I haven't spun that CD very much mdean: yeah and i first heard it while i was in OP! what a coincidence I was in Saudi it's the little details that tie us together like brothers caffienated bacon, baconated grapefruit nickr: HAHAHAA wtF?!@! HAHAHAH (btw: lol, etc) heh its from futurama that's great fry's like 'Man, I'll never get used to the future... caffienated bacon, baconated grapefruit, admiral crunch!?' and then lLela goes 'Well it it'll make you feel any better, have some archduke chocula' ooookay :) hehehe baconated grapefruit. dtm: do you have Down/NOLA? no but i heard it foreverago when i was in OP i have Crowbar one of em you need it! d00d! umkay and COC! ok don't have it either? i have Biohazard, Fear Factory, and Machine Head no COC cocks! get Wiseblood && Deliverance hhehe do you have *all* of the Fear Factory CDs? hmmmm? i have "soul of a new machine", "demanufacture", used to have "remanufacture" and i have "obsolete" Digimortal is very good oh and the "Cars" promo single i have some videos too mpegs you should have Tine send them some home videos; they're maknig a new dvd http://fearfactory.com ASSERT(Digimortal > Obsolete && Digimortal < Demanufacture); wow new DVD? so you dont like obsolete much i really like obsolete Obsolete is OK Digimortal is better oh well i guess i shouldn't say you dont liek it much just coz it's lesser on your scale ;) Fear is the Mindkiller (Soul of a New Machine remixes) is pretty good hehe hmm oh yeah i have a buncha live mp3's of FF do you wannem? errr - I'm on dial-up :-( the price of being in BFE oh that's right, and if something's over a certain size it's impossible and your modem will shut off i forgot did you read my incomprehensible email re: gnue+phpgw+dcl? i did and i liked it. $#!$#@!$ will wonders ever cease? no. I've seen to that. i have "connections" I thought I made *no sense* hehe i understood all of it hahaha what's wrong with you anyway, mike? it's totally bizarre that you think you make no sense ;) Action: dtm pulls mdean out of a vortex of oblivion dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hi derek dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: BitchX: now with flavor crystals! jcater (jason@HubS-mcr-24-24-112-3.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: neil-away -> neilt jcater: hows the geas driver comming honestly, I've been so busy at work that I haven't done much ok, just checking Nick change: neilt -> neil-away Nick change: jcater -> jcMsgMeAndWait dru_cs (ubvswm@203.97.82.178) left irc: viva l'emperour neil-away (neilt@dialup-63.208.67.126.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) left irc: later all ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.37) left irc: Ping timeout for ra3vat[195.239.66.37] Mussi (eu@200.167.235.239) joined #gnuenterprise. Mussi (eu@200.167.235.239) left #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet? skeeter (mpeters@cs666916-91.satx.rr.com) left irc: (Read error to skeeter[24.26.224.244]: EOF from client) chillywilly (danielb@d45.as26.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: chillywilly -> cwDon Nick change: cwDon -> cwLemmeAlone Nick change: cwLemmeAlone -> chillywilly Nick change: jcMsgMeAndWait -> jcater :P Nick change: chillywilly -> cwThisIsStupid why are you doing it then? Nick change: cwThisIsStupid -> chillywilly to illustrate a point ther's something called away messages use them love them there was a reason for my nick bah Action: chillywilly gets into trout slapping mode Action: chillywilly thinks it is about time to make the release ;) skeeter (mpeters@cs666916-91.satx.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: jcater slaps chillywilly w/a crappie Action: chillywilly gets out hsi skeeter spray heh Action: skeeter buzzes away from chillywilly j/k, skeeter not me... :) I want a cable modem I'll never see that one again.. eh? man I cannot reach our site wrong window.. wtf chuck there Action: jcater slaps chillywilly with a large mouth bass Action: chillywilly beats jcater over the head with a sturgeon Action: jcater insults free software in chillywilly's name how can I log into my mailman account and change the address that I am subscriobed as? I need to change my gnue subscriptions to use danielb@freedevelopers.net Action: chillywilly jumps up and down waving his arms like a mad man Nick change: jcater -> chillywilly_ I am jumping up and down like a madman Action: chillywilly kicks chillywilly_ Nick change: chillywilly_ -> jcater I didn't know mast wrote forms to interface with DCL masta ]kewl Action: chillywilly is reading the GNUe + phpgw +dcl thingy that dtm wrote interesting dnZzzz (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Ping timeout for dnZzzz[cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net] jcater (jason@HubS-mcr-24-24-112-3.midsouth.rr.com) got netsplit. chillywilly (danielb@d45.as26.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) got netsplit. nickr (nick@63.163.68.113) got netsplit. gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) got netsplit. skeeter (mpeters@cs666916-91.satx.rr.com) got netsplit. dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) got netsplit. ajbusy (ajmitch@p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) got netsplit. bigbrother joined #gnuenterprise. bigbrother: how dare you leave us it's called a netsplit dude ;P chillywilly: thanks ajbusy (ajmitch@p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajbusy[p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz] ajbusy (ajmitch@p5-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.