dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error to dres[4.18.171.42]: Connection reset by peer Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet? Nick change: ajbusy -> ajmitch reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) joined #gnuenterprise. hi reinhard hi chilly duff (dus@cable-213-132-155-178.upc.chello.be) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (ajmitch@p57-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajmitch[p57-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz] ajmitch (ajmitch@p57-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d80.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: g'night xavier_ (xavier@uu212-190-122-70.unknown.uunet.be) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: xavier_ -> ghunt_ thierry (thierry@AMarseille-201-1-1-10.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. duff (dus@cable-213-132-155-178.upc.chello.be) left irc: Client Exiting duff (dus@cable-213-132-155-178.upc.chello.be) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (rm@62.47.44.55) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. Nick change: ghunt_ -> gh Nick change: gh -> ghunt_ ghunt_: stop playing with your x-chat on this channel Nick change: thierry -> thierry[hungry] duff (dus@cable-213-132-155-178.upc.chello.be) left #gnuenterprise. Nick change: thierry[hungry] -> thierry Nick change: ajmitch -> ajzzzz Nick change: skeeter|sleep -> skeeter|work ryan (ryan@cpe-24-221-171-149.ca.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: ryan -> ryan_ hmm, very quiet here... anyone awake? Action: ajzzzz is ;) Nick change: ajzzzz -> ajmitch not sure, thierry was around earlier ajmitch: right yep ;) too early for me to try & sleep anyone know the status of transaction support ryan_: so what exactly do you need transaction support for? i don't think there is much at the moment, let me look... well, we are planning to implement the CORBA transaction spec for orbit i dont want to reimplment anything looks like it has been started, but not much done what is meant by "started" any code? and are they working on orbit? there is code one problem with geas is that the main developer left, and others haven't picked up on pieces like transaction support :) i don't know if they are working on orbit Nick change: ajmitch -> ajzzzz Nick change: thierry -> thierry[K] neilt (neilt@user-2ivel1o.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ neilt (neilt@user-2ivel1o.dialup.mindspring.com) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[user-2ivel1o.dialup.mindspring.com] dres (dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. ghunt_ (xavier@uu212-190-122-70.unknown.uunet.be) left irc: Ping timeout for ghunt_[uu212-190-122-70.unknown.uunet.be] xavier__ (xavier@uu212-190-122-70.unknown.uunet.be) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: xavier__ -> ghunt_ stuq_ (stuq@c5300-4-ip246.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Ping timeout for stuq_[c5300-4-ip246.albany.thebiz.net] stuq_ (stuq@c5300-4-ip246.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. BroBock (pbbth2@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Is anyone here meeting jcater today in California? of course, the first question should have been... is anyone actually here? neilt (neilt@user-2iveljs.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ hey neil, are you going to meet jcater today? hello all ryan_: you still here, and have question about transaction support no unfortunately, i am stuck in wash dc I really really need to get in touch with him today know of any way I can? nope, i sorry, i dont have any contact details know who might have any details? derek or jamest and how can I contact them? (as you can probably see, this is pretty important) Nick change: neilt -> neilt-away sorry meeting ok be back in a rew Nick change: BroBock -> BroBock-away few minutes reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt-away: im here Nick change: BroBock-away -> BroBock bye thierry[K] (thierry@AMarseille-201-1-1-10.abo.wanadoo.fr) left #gnuenterprise. Nick change: neilt-away -> neilt neilt (neilt@user-2iveljs.dialup.mindspring.com) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[user-2iveljs.dialup.mindspring.com] neilt (neilt@user-2ivem0c.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ neilt (neilt@user-2ivem0c.dialup.mindspring.com) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[user-2ivem0c.dialup.mindspring.com] derek (derek@204.192.62.14) joined #gnuenterprise. duff (dus@cable-213-132-155-178.upc.chello.be) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. duff (dus@cable-213-132-155-178.upc.chello.be) left irc: Client Exiting live from san francisco its the three musketeers bye bye derek (derek@204.192.62.14) left irc: [x]chat heh skeeter|work (mpeters@cs666916-91.satx.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout for skeeter|work[cs666916-91.satx.rr.com] ghunt_ (xavier@uu212-190-122-70.unknown.uunet.be) left irc: Client Exiting nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt (neilt@user-2ivelpu.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ hello neilt hello you already switched to geas-0-1-0-branch ? i thought i deleted that help stuff that was in your checkin no i am working in head i thought that was our approach that was probably a mistake of the cvs commit mail system i did not do it that mail must have made the diffs between the wrong versions HEAD is towards 0.2.0 things that should go in 0.1.0 should be done in branch this is because later we can merge branch into head but not head into branch yuck you already did some changes? how do i switch to geas-0-1-0-branch (except TODO) yes but they are all minor make your own directory then do cvs -d -r geas-0-1-0-branch gnue/geas be sure to stand in an empty directory when you do that chillywilly (danielb@d128.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. so i have to re-checkout everything? for geas yes a new checkout i would keep the "HEAD" copy, too so you can follow what that crazy chillywilly does oh he's here scrap that :) now all of the relative paths for gnue-config etc are all broke Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet? because the new directory can not be in the dir tree for gnue head you can make symlinks so you have gnue-config in the branch tree like in the head tree this is why i hate fsck'in branches what's wrong? ok, i'll have to figure it all out later neilt: what have you started working on? i have to make symlinks there will be problems and i'll waste a few hours tyring to make it owrk i only have a 16k modem connection here I was thinking about that whether gnue-cofnig should've ben in the branch it already takes 5 or 6 minutes just check for updates why do you have a 16k modem? reinhard: dont worry, its just a bad day and i hate to have to deal with computer stuff neilt: so maybe the world looks better tomorrow? because i am forced to use an adapter than only allows 16k through a digital phone that does not have a data port so its not really a 16kmodem but rather a 56k modem running at 16k neilt: you already started on some changes? no just minor doc updates and missing $Id$ in files etx etc ah nothing that matters the things you committed anyway? except i have fairly major changes in gnue-config but that should not be effected neilt: are you talking about the stuff after the tag in HEAD? yes there is no branch for gnue-config gnue-config is HEAD just hack it there you'll be fine chillywilly: i understand that it creating a new dir for the branch and checking it out, and getting it working again so I can choose to work in head or branch that a pain in the &*^&^% I wish we had separate modules for all of these as I see no point in havig the gnue module it just holds the others chillywilly: from my understanding there is no such thing like a module in cvs there are just directories you can regard gnue/ as a module and you can regard gnue/geas as a module you even could regard gnue/geas/lib/classdef as a module you can set up stuff in CVSROOT in the modules file too but those are just aliases exactly can you check out HEAD and update geas to the branch and work on HEAD for other things and the brnch for geas? all in the same gnue dir I am gonna try that chillywilly: not sure how commits would work probably you can't commit in a single command from geas and gnue-config then bah it removes everything else anyway except for geas chillywilly: what i would like you to do rather is to work on methods so that we don't take this PITA for nothing :) you can just keep 2 dirs around gnue and geas-0-1-0-branch Action: neilt goes to checkout brach for geas only it's not that bad I need to patch the branch though with stuff that neilt put in head won't be hard neilt: btw sys_* fields (except sys_id) work in the branch brb switching computers reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. wb reinhard ugh these people want you to send your resume in word, wropefect, or rtf blah chillywilly: send 'em texinfo source ;) looks like a good place to get GNUe in the door DirectSupply Inc. reinhard: I got an html version I am gonna have to use abiword or something Action: chillywilly will have to get them off M$ ;) bah, abiword is 4MB gotta wait 20mins just so I cna send them a resume in theor proprietary shit formats nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: EOF from client nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr not counting the time it is gonna take to enter it in all in abiword and format it Action: chillywilly is really appreciating the freedom of GNU/Linux Milosch (milos@dsl254-035-221.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. lo all hello Milosch hiya how are we dunno can only speak for myself ;) ;) who would be the best person to speak with regarding inter-server communications, etc per gnue and phpgw Action: reinhard hides uh oh try to ask i will try to answer :) I'll speak on our behalf....but I haven't looked at phpgw in detail so we are not very good collaborators right now anyway well, i am the guy primarily working with xmlrpc/soap on phpgw k i have tried getting corba to compile in so i can start trying to work with that my email response today was to our devel list, speaking of dtm's 'merger' concept why not just use GEAS as your backend then, we plan to support more than just CORBA well, here is my personal feeling on that ok not project's opinion necessarily i think phpgw will continue to also be a backend as well as a web interface i feel that both servers then have application damn, phone well we also have an xml gui description for our thin client too, which can be done on the web, GUI, ncurses, etc.....right now we have a python client, and ncurses cleint, and an old Java client reinhard: I should be able to make a cvs diff between the branch and HEAD right? reinhard: cause using regular old diff gives me all the crud in the CVS dirs which I do not want i don't think so but you'd better look at the latest commits i don't think that many files were affected since branching jonly INSTALL, NEWS, etc. s/jonly/only ChangeLog.bak nothing important :P code wise yeah but please patch the branch ok ok, back because not having these things in TODO is bad yeah TODO is another one wonder if I can just use the patches form the commit list....hmmm that might be helpful we are working on having our servers able to cooperate, and i would hope for some middle ground to be able to do the same with geas chillywilly: i think it should only be INSTALL and TODO probably, I can use the commit list patched er, patches Milosch: ya what i have proposed to our project via some implementation is that we would allow for user or server logins phone again? pull the cord :P j/k ok, that was my daily hangup call er? some machine, oh well anyway... the servers would then have some trust arrangement to determine access for each to each others info neilt (neilt@user-2ivelpu.dialup.mindspring.com) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[user-2ivelpu.dialup.mindspring.com] this should allow for realtime and replication where does groupware stuff fit into the enterprise arena? CRM, Project Management? scheduling, contacts, notes, todo some other apps i hope will get finished someday... that's all project management type stuff right? You have dcl too right? the dcl port has begun, yes mdean is working on that of course of course ;) hehe my interest is more along the basic intercomm technologies k but, it does require one caveat ;) do you know how GNUe works? how we develop packages, etc. that being acceptance on the part of both projects that we will both continue to exist ;) no, i really don't... and we don't know how phpgw works either so...we need tp start there, imho sure maybe we need to have at least one person from each side look at the other's stuff that makes too much sense. to a certain extent i expect that dtm is attempting this but, having some more core devels from each take a peek would be most fruitful and then talk to the others on your team and let know how this the other thing works, what you think then we can all talk to each other dunno if dtm is very qualified for that job perhaps i can attempt to provide an overview one or two liner fit for irc ;) ok and I can explain GNUe as best I can and reinhard, etc. can interrupt me too you can do more then on or two if you need to no big deal phpgroupware consists of the core api and the applications, two somewhat seperate groupings the api provides user, group, and applications management, acl and database/ldap connectivity acl is used for users to grant access to each others records, and acl is also used to control access to each application kewl access control list? users first login to the server and are assigned some session info the session is then used for all subsequent communications, and is used to load preferences and acl data on each page load k xmlrpc/soap so far uses the exact same sessioning to control access after execution of a similar login function anyway, all applications use the api for db calls and for access to user/app data some apps can provide services to other applications, as is the case with contacts/calendar/notes/todo and email ;) some of the basic functions are not yet officially api, so they are also open for replacement by a superior app we are still working on the services concept... not really my area make sense so far? yea k we are switching many apps to a 3-layer/tier/whatever design ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.203) joined #gnuenterprise. ok the hinge point being the middle layer, the bo class for each application ui class works with bo to make web pages bo? xmlrpc/soap work with bo to fetch raw data business object aaaah we also have a bo layer k we are designing the communications in this way, so that bo is accessible by the ui layer OR by something non-html but so far still http Milosch (milos@dsl254-035-221.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error to Milosch[dsl254-035-221.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net]: EOF from client Milosch (milos@dsl254-035-221.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. crap now I see some nice overlap you ready for the GNUe summary then? sure ;) btw, is this channel logged somewhere? yes I forget the irl though er, url so we can refer to it later cool www.gnuenterprise.org/irc-logs/?M=D fir thing we have is the forms vlient which is our think client that uses an xml gui decription to render the thing and set up triggers or events client thin bah typing cuks sucks hehe lol so that might be like our ui ya k it uses the CORAB interface to GEAS CORBA cobra, whatever ;) j/k there's a damn fly that is buzzing around ok, it already starts to make sense why you would suggest that we use geas for a backend ok GEAS is our middle ware and hadles several database backends with business objects being specified using class descriptions k and methods being implemented in say python or whatever langauges we write plugins for a package then would contain the business objects descriptions, forms, methods, etc. everything would be pretty generic and extensible....say if accounting or whatever needs to be done slightly different you can extend those objects and overload whatever methods the package describes a service or set of services then? slightly different for some enterprise yea you could say that a framework that can be used as is and extended when needed I think we have been toying with the idea of templates where you choose which packages....because some packages are common to all things ok, for now, our applications do this description via a bo class we have gcds GNUe Class Definitions very similar to idl but with added extras i think we need to abstract this further into services, so that you can choose from 2-3 different apps, and they could each provide the same services the guy who orgianlly write it I think he was tryin to make thing more like the ODMG standards gcds are more like odl files object definition langauge I really need to read that ODMG spec but anyway we also have a db absatrction layer but the only code that messes with that is GEAS itself so to the client of GEAS all you see are business objects and you manipulate those ok, that would be similar to our api/service objects layer via CORBA, etc. yes ok, so corba does not define your internal structure? they both are "middleware" in a sense it exposes the API to all objects this may change I would rather have all business object interfaces be remote interfaces too (CORBA, xmlrpc, soap, etc.) i am not that familiar with corba, in case you hadn't gathered that ok, cool well they all do the same things reallly give you remote access to objects i would think that xml-rpc in particular lacked some structure relative to corba yes, I think that is a bit simpler it is just rpc calls via xml but if that is not so, then great, if it is, i think this allows our implementation to be flexible SOAP and CORBA are OO RPC you get an object reference witha defined interface to play with ok, our xmlrpc implementation opens up the business layer, you make a function call with the right args and you get data back we lack a security system though we have some simple password thing also allows for discovery of methods and io format I think the guy that wrote most of GEAS wanted to use CORBA security when ORBit supported it yea, I see us putting reflection stuff in there or whatever you call that meta data about classes i would guess you would provide auth via whatever the external interface, but only as an interface to internal system auth so you can learn their interface well the way I see it i think the term is introspection? ya guys i'm off for today l8r cya reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. ttyl oops he quick he's he's in Austria so it is probably bed time there now ;) does Java call it the reflection API though? I heard that term somewhere no idea ;( I don't do Java though what we did was add a method to each bo class (some), called list_methods() sure just make a class Class :P this returns a map to the server that the server actually uses to verify the method was a good way to describe this in php, but a seperate class to decode/encode would be nice, yes this is all in php right? yes Action: chillywilly knows php well i know C as well as i know the back of your hand http://sourceforge.net/projects/trioweb was our little senior dsign project a couple years ago I want a GNue solution now I think it will be easier to deploy derek (derek@204.192.62.14) joined #gnuenterprise. I took too much shot from the web master ppl at school masta!!! how's it going? Milosch: that's good...maybe we can steal you away for a bit :P hehe qwell if we're wroking together it's not really stealing then ;) note i said YOUR hand ;) oh duh :( sorry about that, chief rats C is good...just keep saying that until you are convinced i think it's great, i just can grok it so well GEAS is C i did some driver patches awhile back, that's about it you might know that already yes, i figured it must be yes, cause ORBit is having trouble getting this to compile into php so far... I would rather use C++ still listed as experimental well, I think we can defintely work together but, i think if anything should be merged it might be the interface methods and to a certain extent the internal user/auth methods GEAS needs more work though and the main guy went away yes, we are admittedly low on manpower as well lots of developers, a handful of which are active for secrity and auth we were thinking of another server and using techniques like RBAC like in SE Linux but there's no code just talk our backend auth is admin selectable some of it works better than others am more concerned about how we might auth to each other you have to being using ssl though to have good security right? well, it doesn't hurt the first package for our login is in the clear without it for php stuff subsequent data is also currently in the clear without it yeah I had uses phplib before and they had some JavaScrip[t function that with encrypt stuff would they should only be able to sniff each packet, not use it to reauth themselves from another machine unless they snag the password of course ;) it is not encrypted? not for the initial login since it is one-way encryption and compare hmmmm, I know how to fix that but the sessionid and key are what is used for subsequent communication k using pki would be nice for getting the ball rolling as it were and that is certainly part of the problem here auth phplib will send the password encryptes using some JS function, iirc ah hrm not sure that would for for xmlrpc... and perhaps except for that i am not displeased ;) i was pondering using certs, but apparently the openssl interface for php is also still experimental well for use we need a decent security system that locks thing down at the bo level and maybe even higher.... just need to spend some time designing something but I am working onmethods Action: chillywilly goes to find a fly swatter i hope as much as possible using standardized auth methods externally hey derek, are you there? eeew I got the fly cool now I have to scrape hm off my monitor dinner is served hehe i don't know our sessions stuff that well, but it is at least ip based that's totally a web solution though...won't that go away if you use SOAP? once you have an object reference you should be good to go I need to look at SOAP just assuming that it works similarly CORBA Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. hey hey hi Mr_You actaully has looked at security to some extent right? so far, our thought is that we can certainly use the same auth/session for soap/xmlrpc as we do now I know a little about it yeah to get the basic crap working, we are using an auth header with the sessionid and key, which makes it no worse at least than a browser session ahh application based authentication well security (permissions) and aithentication are really 2 different things Mr_You: what were your assessments, didn't you have some ideas about it? my memory sucks I'm too laxy to dig through email ok, in that def, security == our acl class in what regards? I thought someone had some ideas about how it should work Milosch: yeah last I recall sklein was on the right track.. I thought his solutionwas my memory sucks too heh use SE Linux or something stupid like that first we auth the user, then acl determines their permissions :P well it was toward a based system RMAC woops RBAC e.g. access to apps, or access within those apps to other users' data Role Based Access Control a bit more flexible than simple ACL and what SE Linux uses right? a user might have no app access, but be a member of a group which does yes, if you being to code toward a role based access control.. you may have better success, specially 5-10 years from now yes chilly Milosch: look into role based access control if you need a high end security.. not including authentication I need to make some GNUe bookwamrs here well, i am not that intimate with our acl system, but i think it will handle this you have any URLs for that? no, google bah :P http://csrc.nist.gov/rbac/ lunch action pending this has been informative, more to come i hope kewl I am just doing too many things at once to go looking at google Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy Nick change: ajzzzz -> ajmitch Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:17:28) Action: chillywilly notes that Milosch is also in the same time zone as he Action: chillywilly pokes derek with a stick ouch i will be back sorry demo'ing quite a bit and busy having to demo windows forms so will be back later derek (derek@204.192.62.14) left irc: [x]chat daviBusy (davi@158-LASP-X5.libre.retevision.es) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: daviBusy is away: I'm busy nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet? Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr I can't compile the damn branch either for other reasons where is neilt I'm smoking crack I neede to install flex hehe everybody laugh at chillywilly... oops... :) Action: ajmitch runs too many developers on crack here, it's a real worry no, i am on smack usually heh but today, alas, only coffee Action: chillywilly slaps ajmitch with a 10lb trout where are you Milosch? Houston ah, ok and you? Action: chillywilly is in Milwaukee, WI ah Action: Milosch has a batch of beer almost ready ;) kewl with the aid of a very critical phpgroupware app i wrote called brewer ;) the missing link for enterprise software, to be sure hehe I was talking this other guy about brewing beer and stuff next i would try to write a gcd for hamsterdance... Action: Milosch ducks wtf is hamsterdance? ;) remember the website? what website? hehe oh maybe yea little animated hamsters dancing onw the site? anyway, it's my lame joke to write phpgw_hamsterdance yep skeeter (mpeters@cs666916-91.satx.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. lo, skeeter you see the one about the prediential candidates skeeter: you about done with phpgw_elfbowling? er, presidential even no i didn't al gor and bush were dancing on the site gore ah dancing to the al gore rhythym get it? heh heh lemme go find it this isn't the same one but sitll funny http://www.presidentialdance.com/ derek (derek@204.192.62.14) joined #gnuenterprise. hey masta hello derek (derek@204.192.62.14) left irc: [x]chat one thing about GW is he has got to be the goofiest looking predident of all time hehe da masta is back da chilly is too slow :P Action: chillywilly grovels at da masta's feet Action: chillywilly was doing something else he'll be back some one has to setup the scheduled beatings :P skeeter (mpeters@cs666916-91.satx.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout for skeeter[cs666916-91.satx.rr.com] Action: chillywilly is away: dinner daviBusy (davi@158-LASP-X5.libre.retevision.es) left #gnuenterprise. skeeter (mpeters@66.69.16.91) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:24:30) mdean (mdean@arc11x36.kcnet.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hey mdean howdy Nick change: ajmitch -> ajbusy neilt (neilt@user-2ivelhd.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ Action: neilt looks to see if chillywilly is still vertical hello all anyone here? Mussi (eu@200.167.235.106) joined #gnuenterprise. yes wassup dude? just wondering if all that crack, had you down and out Mussi (eu@200.167.235.106) left irc: nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: EOF from client nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. heheh nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] ajbusy (ajmitch@p57-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajbusy[p57-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz] skeeter (mpeters@66.69.16.91) left irc: Ping timeout for skeeter[66.69.16.91] ajbusy (ajmitch@p57-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. skeeter (mpeters@cs666916-91.satx.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ajbusy (ajmitch@p57-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajbusy[p57-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz] ajbusy (ajmitch@p57-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d128.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error to chillywilly[d128.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net]: No route to host chillywilly (danielb@d13.as0.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. grrrrrrrr anyone home? they Indicted Dmitry great - dropping the ball again chillywilly: dimetry sounds communistic enough later all neilt (neilt@user-2ivelhd.dialup.mindspring.com) left irc: what a fucking bastard he's lucky he left I am ready to rip into his sorry ass mdean: you there? yup you see that they indicted Dmitry? ja - that's what my comment was up there ;-) oh, ok man neilt is gonna hear form me but ehat do I know I am just one of those community gnu hoppy freaks ;) er communist hippy I;m so mad I cannot even type fucking united corporations of America man I hate this country hehe - UCA...that really says it all americans will soon sell out all of thier rights for "security", gun conrtrol...ok...DMCA....ok....UCITA....ok when will somone way enough is enough? fuck it time to get to take my protest sign out going down to Chicago on Friday down? where are you at? Milwaukee WI I used to live a few hours from Chicago in IL, but now I'm in Gardner KS (KC area) k the WIPO is another nice organization not I think we have outgrown the industrial age copyright need to be seriously reformed needs a lot of things need to be reformed patents being an obvious one DMCA is not the answer though it is the disease ttp://www.gnu.org/philosophy/reevaluating-copyright.html <-- always a good essay ;) er, http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/reevaluating-copyright.html I hope the Ed Felton case can get this thing to the supreme court then they can rule it unconstitutional I should serious'y write an ebook cracker and license it under the GPL I think everyone should write one real civil disobediense er, disobedience couldn't be too hard rot13 isn't rocket science is that all it is? yup that makes the whole affair even more disgusting an they charge $2500 or so for their ebook reader the whole thing is just out right disgusting Action: mdean eyes his applied cryptography book... hehe all you need is access to Dmitry presentation Dmitry's another dirty thing about it is they waited until he was about to board the plane to go back home they wouldn't dare do it at the DefCon conference heh - it doesn't even warrant in-depth discussion in the book lol my favorite line: ROT13 is not intended for security rofl mdean: Now you say that.. it has 2 whole paragraphs We used ROT13 all over phpGW skeeter: say it isn't so! Oh.. no.. we use uuencode/udecode.. :) no.. j/k if you want good encryption: http://www.spammimic.com/ hrm, does gnue have project management? Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr nope not right now okay after e collaborate with pgpgw we will have some stuff ;) phpgw hmm any experience with it? no ask these guys mdean, skeeter Milosch they are the developers hey! I'm just an innocent bystander! skeeter && Milosch are much more involved than I I mainly work in DCL well dcl is noce fpr project management or so I hear masta loves it a demo of dcl somewhere? ja - if you don't need hardcore pm, it's good http://dcl.sourceforge.net/ on-line demo is one version removed from release heheh phpgw does have some project mangement... but I haven't used it.. in #sklyarov this guy said that bruce perens gave dmitry's speech at the Open Source Convention wouldn't be surprised... RMS should do that for one of his speeches some more of these guys with clout ya know ooh dcl is nice we should also all write ebook decrypters GPL'd too Not I.. wouldn't be very nicew for me to go to Leavenworth... how hard is dcl to install? well better than sitty idly by and watching your rights be taken away one by one skeeter: why not? then I could visit! mdean: That's exactly why.. :) nickr: takes about 5 minutes to install if you have PHP, db, web server, etc running already awesome does it keep like time statistics and stuff? chillywilly: I already do what I can to defend our rights... nickr: in a nutshell: untar, run sql script, login well obviously it is not enough, because DMCA still got passed mysql or postgres? nickr: yup nickr: mysql, pgsql, mssql, sybase chillywilly: I'm talking on a much Global basis... whoa neat well there's the WIPO who wants to screw everyone globally what are you referring to then? I defend the democracy of the US... so do I what branch? in facet I want to extend democracy to other areas http://www.freedevelopers.net branch? Oh..... mdean understands what I'm talking about.. you're in th emilitary? I'm in the US Air Force... Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. I would never work for this crappy gov't they sicken me....this is the united corporations of america the people do not have a say Action: mdean is very glad to be out of the military Action: skeeter can't wait to be out... we live in a corporate republic not a democracy ok.... seems like it sure does That's the exact right I'm defending... what?!? You allowed to say what you want, when you want.. that corporations are allowed to control a country where the people are supposed to rule oh, ok '/msgmdean I don't think he gets it... well with Dmitry Sklyarov he was not allowed to say what he wanted when he wanted Dmitry is an example of injustice he is not facing 25 years in prison for it happens often DCL is amazingly cool looking s/not/now Mr_You: you see that they indicted him? this is why I am on my rant But, accordingly.. He did break a copyright law... no he did not by the current DMCA he has broken a law he gave a speech at DefCon they indicted him for what? he wrote the software in Russia where you have to be abke to make a backup copy which falls under fair use But he had published a paper on how to bypass certain copyrighted material.. heh, Russia is more free than america skeeter: so? sure.. you make a backup for PERSONAL use... why don't we outlaw all guns then no, if this was a russian company he would have been in jail a long time ago ;-) that's besides the point....DMCA is unconstitutional so people should not be allowed to do research in cryptograhpy? IMO yes I haven't read his paper.. But, I would guess that it was intended for MASS duplication of the material.. he did it as his PhD dissertation ot something skeeter: publishing a paper on how to crack something and actaully doing t are 2 different things Agreed... the first is portected under the 1st amendment I can say I stole a car.. but until you actually see me steal it.. no wrong doing... not if you plan on stealing copyrighted material... well another injustice is that it uses rot13 for crying out loud and thye are chrarging an arm and a leg for it that's what your little copyright statement at the top of your source code is for... to protect your material as yours.. no arduement on that point... but he did not infringe on any copyrights he;s not charged with opyright infringement copyright and what if a public domain work is in a n ebook format then waht? liek Alice In Wonderland it ectends copyright forever copyright is supposed to be limited CS Carrol's heirs expects their share of the publishing rights.. how about blind people that need text to speech converters? how about people who wanna make a backup copy Sure.. but they pay for the technology.. unless someone gives it away.. Was Adobe giving away their technology? I don't think so.. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/reevaluating-copyright.html They were charging for the losest encryption in the world.. you ever read this copyright was an industrial regualtion can't say I have.. we are past the industrial age OOPs... The wife is calling me to bed... sorry to cut this short... haha a dcl debian package could life be finer? no finer than that my friend it's a little dated, tho a debian package for php? ;-) chillywilly: Will have to pick this up tomorrow night... I haven't heard from Ola in a while there is a debian php package have that hoo too skeeter: read RMS's essay first Nick change: skeeter -> skeeter|sleep I will... I'll pull it up now to remind me for the morning.. k you think because of napster that the music publishers were really losing money guys? in fact sales were up, iirc Yopu now.. I've heard something simliar thgouh from the other perspective.. If you were a freelance author and wrote an article for The New York Times... you better got o bed before your wife kicks your butt ;) They buy the publishing rights for the article... publishers are screwing th eauthors and musicians too Now, when they bring it on line, they HAVE to pay you again for the rights to use it online... you have the few controlling the many for profit i'm outta here.. it is like being king of something forever under DMCA l8r yeah write an email and I'll send it on my behalf to Howard Coble ;-) I would much rather see people cooperating than trying to screw one another who is that? The person who heads the DMCA committee ah ok well we are losing this war as the corporations have th politicians in their back pocket, ijmho forst the DeCSS case now this one is sucking soon writing Free software will be illegal night y'all mdean (mdean@arc11x36.kcnet.com) left irc: Client Exiting nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]