dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) left irc: [x]chat dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dewd StormBringer (eugene@194.84.60.1) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: Connection reset by peer nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. man dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error to dres[4.18.171.42]: Connection reset by peer hehe I dunno who has a wrose connection between those two :P worse even hehe hey dialup might suck but at least mine is reliable I just now consciously relized that talking tummies commercial is about levis heh wonder what you were thinking about ;) before http://www.starbreeze.com/screenshots/enclave2.jpg nice graphics yea Action: chillywilly can't remember how a histogram works heheh Nolan Ryan is old doing Advil commercials now StormBringer (eugene@194.84.60.1) left irc: Ping timeout for StormBringer[194.84.60.1] ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.35) joined #gnuenterprise. StormBringer (eugene@194.84.60.1) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.35) left irc: Ping timeout for ra3vat[195.239.66.35] reinhard (rm@N802P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. sup reinhard? eeek, you got up the same time I did 8am is too early imho chillywilly: yes agree Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: night nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: Connection reset by peer nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.44) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat: hi StormBringer: hello hi guys i said hi to Derek and someone else at the gnue booth yesterday oh yes, it was jamest and his wife i hear that bkuhn is at the FSF booth today and i'm not sure how that's working out :) i heard there was an inflammatory and derogatory sign in the FSF's booth saying something like "GNU is not Linux" hehe and if so, i would probably refuse to work there er, woops that's not funny i was there nearly all day yesterday er? hehe Action: chillywilly slaps dtm with a trout Away with you, troutslapper! :) From whence is this troutage? you don't look liek you are at the Expo like huh? i'm at home right now dsl.tsoft.com yeah, nobody's at the expo. that's the expo? :P the expo's not at the expo :) I know i could have my own expo here, if i wanted to! hehe i could exploit chillywilly in the publicity of my cul de sac charge admission for it i could tie him to the hood of a car and proclaim, "Release the coons!" so, yay got me a coon yesterday Action: chillywilly slaps dtm with a trout again got me the baby put out antoher trap tonight got some pics to too with the mama trying to get the baby out well , not a baby but a child chillywilly: so how's it going? wha? are you having a lovely evening? it's about going to bed :P ok chillywilly: right now/ ? approximately? yes very soon ok Action: chillywilly tired do you know anything about Brad Kuhn? nope he's fat and sorta bald :P Oh. but does he suck? I have seen hos picture why would he suck? hmmm if he was a zealous contrarian, that would suck and he doesn't sound like he's not one, of the little i know who put the GNU is no Linux sign on the FSF booth? i've had little email contact with him that would be him, i think afaik he's very zealtous he certainly sent me the zealous drivel via email about what? "gnu's not linux" he sent that in an email? it was about a half page of obviously copied text yes to me because he saw my email signature why? hmmmm it said I'm a "Linux" user well dude you should change it to GNU/Linux it was a tiny little announcement of my professional availabilty and be done with it "done" with what? oh I saw that the proper name for th esystem is GNU/Linux For what system? How high should I jump? that system you're using right now Your opinion of your system may be "gnu/linux" but it's certainly not of mine. it is the GNU OS with a Linux kernel And you'll not be telling me otherwise. because I know what you're talking about and I know what the alleged potential problem is, and that's not a solution for anything and certainly not a solution for that potential alleged problem. okm then go build a "Linux" system from source and don't use any GNU software i do any number of other things to address it, and they do work. chillywilly: Could you be any less offensive or zealous? Just try to take it down a notch, would ya? I am not getting into this with you dtm You're absolutely right. seems liek you're the offensive one I didn't day anythng offenseive disregarding your behavior as a node of the hive, yes i'm sure mine looks offensive just that is is the GNU/Linux system...when I boot up my debian box it tells me GNU/Linux you didn't say anything that you think is offensive perhaps because you dont realize how absolutely wrong that intended solution to the alleged problem is. for peopel with an alternate viewpoint you're getting bent out of shape...it is not about mindlessly supporting GNU dogma in that case, yes it is. it's nothing but that. they have a point and I happen to agree they have an intended point, but applying that name to absolutely all related software is absolutely wrong don't you realize when you strip away the GNU you arestripping away the real philosphy that matters? Freedom No. if you;re talking about the kernel call it Linux I realize the entire issue, and I'm not part of the problem you're identifying and trying to fix. if it is the whole OS then it is GNU/Linux my point is that that is absolutely the wrong way to go about addressing the issue you're thinking of and OS is more than the kernel GNU deserves the recognition is it wasn't for their vision in the first place there would be no system it's ignorant, counteroffensive, technically wrong, _AND_ the way you're carrying it out (telling me what i sholud call something) is absolutely wrong. So it does more harm than good. s/is/if how is it ignorant chillywilly: that's absolutely misguided philosophy and technically wrong? it ignores all the other people who contributed to the system we're using, who are equally important because ALL the contributions are equally important bs just like the person who plays a solo of one single note in a concert if the FSF was _actually_ interested in promoting credit where it's due, they'd name the system an incredibly long name even of just the major contributors GNU is th eonly one to set out to create an entire FreeOS linux includes code from other OS's too that is presumptious, arrogant, and ignorant dan they're the only one who set out to create their vision of a free OS you need to take a chill pill in the Free Software community you need to not be arrogantly and ignorantly offensive :) and take it out on me and i'll be glad to chill Here's a note -- don't ever tell me to call it "gnu/linux" ever again. Just keep that in mind. fuck you I don;t need you to come in here starting some shit I started nothing, dan -- you're the on who brazenly dictated my behavior to me parroting RMS just because you don't liek it then just say so don't throw a fit here dan -- you're trying to dictate my behavior I said should Action: reinhard is not 100% sure if this discussion belongs in here my defense of my own independant non-offensive non-problematic behavior is not starting anything and you already knew not to tell me that. no I didn't and I'm not as devastatingly juvenile to fall back to namecalling or profanity against my brethren reinhard: noted reinhard: thanks it's 2am I don't have patience for people who can't express their feelings up front you're still being just as offensive that doesn't make any sense, and i'm not offending you in any way, dan :) I just don't sugar coat it you have an attitude with me ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.44) left irc: Ping timeout for ra3vat[195.239.66.44] ghunt (xavier@uu212-190-122-70.unknown.uunet.be) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly_ (danielb@d129.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all chillywilly (danielb@d174.as11.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by chillywilly_)) Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Read error to nickr_[sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net]: EOF from client nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-7-6-186.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. 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Nick change: ajzzzz -> ajmitch neilt (neilt@dialup-63.215.119.20.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ morning all mo'ing i have some points i would like to discuss with you you have some time? yes, just reading cw and dtm diatriabe from earlier give me 10 minutes to see my wife off to work ok just tell me when you're back back you may choose a. your changes to base, sales and accounting module b. some thoughts on gcd syntax and how tables are created by geas --- b ok for the new car and chance at 100,000 now we can have nested modules like module outer { module inner { class foo ... which creates a table named outer__inner__foo i think we should not support it when i remeber the problems we had with the max length of table names and it makes things in the parser much more complicated than they would have to be like 8. fix so that TYPEs do not have to be fully qualified to work {classdef} i agree, no nested modules ok good basically the same thought on nested classes yes, no nested classes except that i see even less sense in that i agree there also cool so the next is just an idea if we ever need to do nesting, we can do it with the name if we have no nested modules and no nested classes we can create name outer_inner_someclass we could define that module name may not have underscores and replace the "__" in the table names by a single underscore so when we have a table name foo_bar_baz we know it must be module foo and class bar_baz that would result in nicer table names hold on, let me check SQL allowed special characters SQL92 calls for 128 character table names why did we run into problems probably because neither postgres nor mysql are SQL92 compilant in this point i think postgres has 32 character table names myssql is 64 with _ and $ postgresql only has _ so what do you think about it`? i am torn about doing away with the __ ok i'll mark that question with a "?" for now :) i understand the benefits maybe that should be posed to the discuss list and see what other think brb phone call back i will post everything to the list anyway but i want to talk to you before ok so i don't propose things that don't make sense at all ok next thought in looking at the postgresql docs hold on i think we need to add a todo, we should generate all tables (CREATE TABLE) with WITHOUT OIDS does this work in every postgres version? there is no need, that I know of, to generate our uuid and the database generate uids yes i dont know when it was added ok, go ahead checking my version of postgres it is not in version 6.5 of postgreSQL and not 7.0 either there was some discussion regarding oids on the postgrs list that i participated in and ask for a way to get rid of them evidently they just put it in for 7.1 so we should not make a dependency on 7.1 but if we can check the verison and do it automatically that would be kewl actually its only 7.2 current dev not even 7.1 current release neilt: so i think it's too early to do something yep sorry nevermind i saw the discussion with you and the postgres list thats what i get for having the latest docs i was so happy of hearing something from another austrian somebody was @spardat.at ok next thought we have a class named "item" in the "base" module table base__item (lets stick to old naming for this example) ok we have module "cardealer" that extends it by "serialno" field base__item.serialno somebody else who doesn't know that writes another module "foo" which extends item by the field "serialno" so module "cardealer" and module "foo" will never work together the gcd parser will not allow the 2nd definition when it is done correctly but this will happen if we have several people develop modules independently yes i think we should do something about it why or what i think the goal of this project is to have a lot of people writing a lot of modules and contributing them back someday yes agree and we will end up in a matrix of which module is incompatible with which other module because they extended the same class with the same field name but if a name is already taken, then you have to choose a new name maybe you don't even know if the name is taken why dont you know the other developer hasn't contributed back yet but he will tomorrow then first contributer wins and i want to use both modules because both are cool then one has to rename the field ...and break his own 40 installs of the module ok, i am willing to look at solution, you would not brought this up if you did not have solution :) just a sec phone call :( while your away, let me say another thing i thing other developers can develop modules, but I think we will always be the integrators of modules as such I saw EXTEND as a integration tool and that most modules could be written without it the purpose of EXTEND is for industry templates to extend functionality most functionality should not use EXTEND because they should be using there own modules and inherit functionality back i see it slightly different i see EXTEND as a means to have a table where different modules can define fields for example we have the class "item" some basic fields from the base module like item number, text etc. some fields from the sales module like price, etc. some fields from purchasing like prefered vendor, purchase price ... under this and it is _good_ that they are all in the same table imho performance wise you are saying we need to have extend inside a module def and have the module name appended to the field name no prefixed, not appended :) thats what i meant but a good guess anyway :) :) and we _have_ extend inside a module def but the parser ignores the module def right now for extends yep and allows it outside of a module def the parser allows everything outside of a module def even a class then it is implicitly in the module "root::" or something like that yes that is right so the number of nested modules may now be 0 to infinity and we would change it to be 1 to 1 :) but i think it makes sense especially when we prefix field names with the module, too otherwise we had outer__inner__class.outer__inner__field this solution is easy easy == good ? i can go for it, we gain a lot for not much trouble cool this gives another boost in the __ -> _ issue is it already done? lol you optimist :) but i would have no problem to regard it as my TODO cool i want to discuss with list before, anyway and i won't start other changes before i committed the sys_id stuff btw this fits perfectly sys_id field means that for every table the implicit module "sys" adds the field "id" ahh youmean sys__id yep or sys_id if we do single underscore :) classname/fieldname syntax for clients would be like base::item.cardealer::serialno base::item.foo::serialno base::item.text (shortcut for base::item.base::text) btw i don't get why we did :: and not : i am lost here module::class.field right what did "right" refer to? is this right ? basically yes if so what does this base::item.cardealer::serialno mean for all the fields that were introduced in the CLASS definition this means that you have a module base which has CLASS item and a module cardealer which has EXTEND item and serialno is taken from EXTEND ok not sure i am happy with that syntax its not intuitive i am not happy too if you know better syntax that contains module of class, classname, module of extend, and fieldname maybe another character instead of :: would be better base::item.cardealer_serialno actually it should be base.item::cardealer.serialno from my understanding of c++ syntax neilt: could work, too maybe the list brings up better ideas actually using GNUe naming standards it should be base::item.car_dealer_serial_no