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<LuftHans> the time is now just after 22:00
<derek> imhere
<derek> hello
<LuftHans> OK
<derek> sorry was eating dinner and wife was watching xmen
<derek> i got hooked :)
<LuftHans> xmen is good :)
<LuftHans> the movie?
<derek> all three
<derek> wife, dinner, movie ;)
<LuftHans> :)
<LuftHans> RMS gets in on Sat, probably. Do we know when?
<LuftHans> early enuf to do a Sun gig?
<derek> um not sure
<derek> i dont know his flight schedule yet
<LuftHans> Mon that week is AZIPA, sort of contradiction for RMS, but we could get people from there if we don't conflict
<derek> im assuming if he comes in on sat it would be in time to do something on sunday
<LuftHans> Tue is AZPHP, but we could usurp that
<LuftHans> You say he's out of Phx wed or thu
<derek> dont know days only dates :)
<LuftHans> Any chance of us getting him to Tucson?
<derek> LuftHans: not likely
<LuftHans> `cal`
<LuftHans> :)
<derek> unless we can drive him
<derek> as doing the bus thing is pain
<derek> and he seemed set on it for flagstaff
<LuftHans> That's probably easy enough, but time is short
<derek> remember he is not 'vacationing' he still has work to do
<LuftHans> no need to run him ragged
<derek> so driving for hour each way kills a day for him
<LuftHans> exactly, he's still got work to do, so if he has 2 days travel in the first couple of days his sched is screwed
<LuftHans> if he can't hit Tucson, then we should really go for a 17:00 or 18:00 gig Sun
<LuftHans> that gives people time to get back down south after the talk
<LuftHans> that also makes ASU a possible location :)
<LuftHans> same with SCC, actually
<derek> yes i definitely am thinking we are best off getting educational institution to 'donate' the space
<derek> as i cant see paying 1000 for a hotel
<derek> rms is definitely an educational speaker
<derek> i.e. he has a mac arthur fellowship is a PHD in physics/math
<LuftHans> I'm writing a prof from SCC right now. He might be able to get us SCC or MCC
<derek> and is one of the leading computer scientists of past 2 decades
<LuftHans> the fellowship and PhD will help with ASU
<derek> i would think any computer sci dept woudl GLADLY welcome a lecture form him
<LuftHans> ah, innocence
<LuftHans> it's so cute
<LuftHans> please don't talk to ASU cs as I'd hate to see you lose that :(
<LuftHans> :)
<derek> ;)
<derek> yeah jamest (co maintainer of gnue) works for math dept at Kansas State Universityh
<derek> i hear pretell professors can be shall we say egotisitical at times :)
<LuftHans> corp sellouts is the prob
<LuftHans> I can handle big egos ( small pins do wonders :)
<derek> well if we can get donated space we should be golden
<derek> as rms prefers in house visits (room and board)
<derek> which you have graciously offerred
<LuftHans> saw that in his docs
<derek> meals shouldnt be too bad to provide
<LuftHans> non-spicy might be hard to find :)
<derek> and his ticket shouldnt be too terrible 
<derek> especially if split with flagstaff
<derek> and some businesses are able to pick it up
<derek> im more nervous there wont be much of a turn out
<derek> wondering how to best advertise
<derek> we can put on the gnu site of course
<derek> if we can get the date by tuesday and place
<derek> i will use our (the counties) ties to the republic
<derek> and see if i cant get in following monday computer section
<derek> or whatever day they do it on
<LuftHans> I think I can get press coverage
<derek> to run a small piece on free software mentioning some of its recent battles with dmitry and such
<derek> and say that dr stallman will be speaking at XXXXXX on XXXXX
<LuftHans> We've also got the LUGs or GLUGs :), I've got contact with biz journal,
<LuftHans> eric thelin is with aztechbiz
<derek> ah :)
<LuftHans> I've got a friend who's *very* active with local politics, so we can hit politics groups, free dmitry stuff, etc
<LuftHans> we've also got someone who'll do a free press release for us :)
<LuftHans> I've got several profs who'll announce as well
<derek> that would be great
<derek> if we can get a press release as soon as we know the date/time/location
<derek> we can get to all the local computer schools and highschools
<LuftHans> none of that insures a group, but I think we'll get some crossover from the freedom groups
<derek> i wish he would have had confirmed a month ago when i last queried
<derek> much less hurried then
<derek> but oh well we will deal with what we have got :)
<LuftHans> ah, we'd've waited until next week if we'd've had time :)
<derek> you saw my list of stuff we need answers for ASAP
<derek> short of speaking times and dates its pretty solid
<derek> i think RMS would have no issues at your pad
<derek> if you dont have issues with a week of rms
Action: derek warns LuftHans to practice its GNU/Linux not Linux
<derek> over and over and over
<derek> ;)
<LuftHans> just glanced at the list, got to look at it in detail still
<LuftHans> I'll just call it debian and leave out both GNU and Linux ;-)
<derek> rofl
<derek> you could call it the free operating system
<LuftHans> I'm also checking into the "is it a free book" page
<LuftHans> don't know people at bookstores anymore anyway :(
<LuftHans> might be able to do something with changing hands anyway
<LuftHans> RMS have any books on tape?
<LuftHans> It would be cool to get him to do some stuff in spanish
<LuftHans> does he translate as he goes?
<LuftHans> In other words, he says it in english, then the other language?
<LuftHans> Das heisst, er sagt es erst auf Englisch, danach sagt er es auch auf der anderen Sprache?
<derek> um
<LuftHans> Being bilingual would also get us more press
<derek> yes and know
<derek> he doent have books on tape
<derek> he speaks english, spanish and french
<derek> he is not super fluent in spanish so prefers not to give speeches in spanish (as it takes too long)
<derek> he does speech in one language only
<derek> if you have it translated he inisists it be concurrent and not delayed
<derek> i.e. not him speak and pause ;)
<derek> as that takes twice as long :)
<LuftHans> Ah, OK, I think I get it.
<derek> here i dont think translation will be an issue
<LuftHans> He does the speech once and in one of the 3 languages.
<derek> yip :)
<derek> he doesnt mind if someone translates they just have to do so in a way that doesnt interfere with his speech :)
<LuftHans> These are prepared speeches, right? If so, we might be able to arrange the bilingual thing
<LuftHans> exactly
<derek> they are pretty much prepared we really can have him talk on whatever we like
<derek> he has 3 canned speeches but you can request others
<LuftHans> Hell, we could do spanish spanish *and* mexican spanish :)
<derek> hey vato think you could lay down some gringo too?
<LuftHans> I can do German, so we could have 4 langs :)
<LuftHans> I'd like him to do whatever speech he wants to, but the free speech thing might be appropros with Dmitry
<derek> i am more interesting in talking to him outside the speech(es) ;)
<derek> you should get plenty of that if he stays at your place
<derek> he doesnt like being drug around too much, but he likes people
<LuftHans> I can understand that
<LuftHans> travelling sucks
<LuftHans> people are cool
<LuftHans> the Net allows the latter without requiring the former :)
<derek> ;)
<derek> definitely
<derek> rms woudl irc i imagine if he didnt get like 30k emails a day
<LuftHans> That's one of the reasons I don't irc
<derek> i live off irc
<LuftHans> Another is answer as I can rather than realtime is nice :)
<derek> it is non productive a lot
<derek> BUT
<derek> for gnue it saves my ass so much email
<LuftHans> I used to. I was definitely a junkie while in .de. Too much time sink now that I'm in real life, though.
<derek> being able to talk real time
<LuftHans> For a project, I can see irc as an important tool.
<derek> funny thing is irc is like an 'office' for gnue
<LuftHans> If I can get a wearable working, especially with voice interface, then I intend to start using irc again.
<derek> ;)
<LuftHans> Do cheapbytes and other similar copies of RH, etc. count as Free Software to RMS?
<LuftHans> In other words, do those forms strip off the non-free software he opposes?
<LuftHans> How about BSDs? They don't really use GNU software, though, do they?
<derek> no
<derek> let me clarify
<derek> he doesnt mind vendors handing things out or us handing things out
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<derek> but it must not have ANY non free software
<derek> technically BSD is free software (though i dont know if i would be handing it out an RMS event) 
<derek> but RH in your sample
<derek> RH the GNU/Linux is ok
<derek> BUT they put non free software on the distribution
<derek> same with mandrake and others
<derek> so about only GNU/LInux that is 'safe' to give out is Debian
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<derek> i would DEFINITELY say we want to do an install fest
<derek> the weekend after he is here
<derek> and we can do registration at the door or something
<derek> and then send fliers to all the attendees
<LuftHans> the non-free is why I asked if the cheapy copies strip off the non-free software
<derek> to come to the install fest
<derek> LuftHans: good question
<derek> they might
<LuftHans> I'll check into it
<derek> im still understanding what these other distros are
<derek> i mean i thought there was only debian ;)
<LuftHans> well, that is the one true GNU/Linux ( and soon the one true GNU/Hurd :)
<LuftHans> cheapbytes ( and other places ) sell the rh, etc. CDs for a couple of bucks apiece.
<LuftHans> That's where I get the BSD CDs that I never install.
<LuftHans> I also get debian CDs that way.
<LuftHans> They usually don't provide the whole dist, just the basic install
<LuftHans> RH should be OK because they GPL their software,
<LuftHans> SuSE, though I like it, won't be, because they don't release yast as Free Software
<LuftHans> I would think slack would be OK, it's just that they don't say GNU/Linux.
<LuftHans> Then again, slack probably has netscape and a few other such things.
<derek> does plug have tshirts and the likes?
<derek> or hats
<derek> or goods to sell at stuff like this?
<LuftHans> I'm getting ready to write ThinkGeek to ask for donations :).
<LuftHans> Got to order a few things as well...
<derek> :)
<derek> fsf will have thier merchandise for sale
<derek> i think
<derek> trying to arrange that
<LuftHans> Yup, they can send that to my office if they prefer it to get to RMS
<derek> i think i gave them jim's address for that
<derek> rms generally doesnt deal with that stuff anyhow
<LuftHans> That's what I figured. My work addy would be the one to use for anything he needs to get his hands on.
<derek> i will be back in a bit
<LuftHans> OK
<derek> ok back
<derek> but think im about wore out
<derek> all the items on my todo list require too much brain power :)
<derek> no easy quick hack items left
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<LuftHans> Doesn't that suck?
<LuftHans> Isn't this the point that you turn it over to your daughter? ;-)
<derek> :)
<derek> i wish i could use the extra hands lately
<derek> im turning in and calling it an early night i will be around virutally all day tomorrow after i am up and about
Nick change: derek -> dnZzzz
<LuftHans> OK.
<dnZzzz> someday you all will get a demo of gnu enterprise and be greatly impressed
<LuftHans> Looks like Jim's got quite a bit started.
<LuftHans> We've just got to make sure RMS is happy with the schedule and we can do the financing...
<LuftHans> F2F mtg could be done either Mon or Tue night, as far as I'm concerned
<LuftHans> chat w/ you tomorrow
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<ra3vat> hello
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<derek> morning fellows
<derek> i think i got TOO much sleep
<jcater> morning
<jcater> never hurt anyone
<derek> jcater: was thinking i was in SF for a minute :)  I mean 8 hours 
<jcater> rofl
<derek> 8hours double what jcater takes in 
<derek> sigh
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<jcater> later
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<DiegoWS> hi
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<ra3vat> hello
<Mr_You> hi
<Mr_You> haha I got milk shaked splashed on me last night!
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<jamest_> has jcater been in today?
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<neilt> jamest_: you still here?
<jamest_> yes
<jamest_> question
<jamest_> in your do_docs
<jamest_> you login to cvs
<jamest_> doesn't update work for you w/o the login?
<neilt> never tried it
<jamest_> ok
<jamest_> we can do this two ways
<neilt> info for you
Action: jamest_ awaits info
<neilt> i just revised the schema.py script to show you how forms can
<neilt> get help text, tool tips, and field labels from geas
<jamest_> cool
<neilt> btw do_docs need to be beefed up 
<neilt> feel free to improve it
<jamest_> you know how to use cron?
<neilt> it should dump everything to logfile
<jamest_> we can either put the job in your crontab
<neilt> will i have done it before, but no not off the top of my head
<neilt> i would have to look at docs
<jamest_> i'll set it up under user username
<jamest_> for now
<neilt> ok have to go
<neilt> bbl tonight
<jamest_> ok
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<ra3vat> bbl
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<jamest_> argh!
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<jamest_> hello
<reinhard> hello davi
<davi> hi reinhard
<davi> uhmmm
<davi> I would raise a Q:
<reinhard> ok
<davi> Could you (or any) answer?
<davi> well
<davi> We have a project (PostgreSQL > 7.0) that will use multiple client
<reinhard> i can at least try
<davi> How can any client be notified when a data base data is modified/added/deleted ...?
<davi> triggers-notify design is right?
<davi> .
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<reinhard> davi: not sure if i am the right one to answer this question
<taw> hello
<reinhard> hi taw
<reinhard> davi: i am not very experienced w/ databases
<jamest_> davi: there was recently a project announced on the postgresql list
<davi> well, maybe we could try raise this question another day when more people is here.
<davi> What project?
<jamest_> that provided notification when db fields changed
<reinhard> davi: maybe you can get even more help on a postgres specific channel
<jamest_> lemme look
<davi> thanks   hamest_
<davi> s/hamest_/lamest_
<jamest_> grrrr, I can't find the mail
<jamest_> i _think_ it was called pgnotify
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<jamest_> yip
<jamest_> http://www.pobox.org.sg/home/ngps/pgnotify/
<davi> jamest_: Thanks any way. Maybe I could look into the postgres archives (what list?)
<davi> thanks
<davi> jamest_: Very thanks, it was what we had looking for.
<jamest_> glad to help
<davi> :)
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<jamest_> howdy
<jcater> howdy
<jcater> that's my line
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<Kirchhoff> hello...
<jamest_> hi
<Mr_You> hi
<Kirchhoff> question...
<jamest_> sure
<Kirchhoff> you bots?
<Kirchhoff> okay not
<Kirchhoff> well... if there's a program running under the GNU license am I able to change the code edit it and don't give any credit to the original author? or am I obligated to give them credit?
<jamest_> nice tough question :)
<jamest_> i think the author should get credit in most cases
<jamest_> a mention in the README or AUTHORS file
<jamest_> unless its a really minor thing
<jamest_> like you used a few lines of their code but not everything
<jamest_> we try and give credit where credit is due
<jamest_> but I'm sure we've missed things here and there
<Kirchhoff> alright so... I just put a little credit note with the info...
<jcater> I think that is out of courtesy, though... not necessarily a requirement
<jamest_> jcater: right
<jcater> you might want to email the fsf
<jcater> to get better clarification
<jcater> we are a project of gnu, not gnu itself
<jcater> :)
<Kirchhoff> huumm...
<Kirchhoff> alright
<Kirchhoff> question
<Kirchhoff> say the program is slashcode...
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<Kirchhoff> and a person doesn't put any kind of credit to the slashcode people
<Kirchhoff> is he or she in a violation of copyright infrigment? or is he obligated to put a link that his site is running slashcode?
<Kirchhoff> and give any kind of credit to their creators?
<jamest_> when you're talking copyright you'd be far better off asking the FSF instead of us
<jamest_> we're lowly coder types
<Kirchhoff> FSF? what's that?
Action: LuftHans awakes :)
<Kirchhoff> free source foundation?
<ajmitch_> heh
<LuftHans> careful with slashcode as tacoboy can get pissy
Nick change: ajmitch_ -> ajmitch
<jamest_> free software foundation
<jamest_> the authors of the GPL
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<LuftHans> a friend did something based on some old slashcode and pretty well rewrote it from the inside out
<LuftHans> he gave credit on the credits page, but not on the front page of the site
<LuftHans> slashdot's lawyers agreed with my friend that he'd changes enough to not need to give any credit whatsover, but cmdr taco was still pissed :(
<jamest_> typically I think you should always try and give credit
<jamest_> as it's one of the few things you can "pay" a free software author with 
<Kirchhoff> alright?
<Kirchhoff> alright!
<Kirchhoff> Question
<Kirchhoff> who do you think will win the US OPEN? 
<Kirchhoff> ehhehehe
<Mr_You> I would hope he would want his real name and not CmdrTaco
<Mr_You> heh
<chillywilly> CmdrTaco is a weenie
<jamest_> btw - madlocke contacted me 
<Mr_You> I was at Tanglewood last night.. saw a band.. (Tanglewood Vantage)
<jamest_> he'll be back on Tuesday
<jamest_> we have be able to see the html driver soon :)
<ra3vat> jamest_: cool
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Action: ra3vat is just apt-getting his semi-mandrake distro 
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<jamest_> argh!
<jamest_> its returned!
<ra3vat> bbl
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<derek> yeah im back poor you 
<derek> jamest_: how hard to fix a cron job for log file
<derek> so that current day file is symlinked to current_day.log or something?
<derek> as since peple in diff timezones 'days' are different for diff people
<derek> Kirchhoff: if you are still here
<derek> i dont know license of slashcode BUT if its GPL i dont believe ANY credit must be given 
<derek> in fact stallman deems licenses that REQUIRE 'credit' to be NOT GPL compatiable
<derek> the old BSD license was like this as it required that in the distribution you give 'notables' back to BSD
<derek> the Zope license also had this problem
<derek> i think professional courtesy dictates that you SHOULD but the GPL does not MANDATE it
<derek> in any such case the best answer for GPL code or code that you want to use with GPL always you can email licenses@gnu.org (i think)
<derek> actually its licensing@gnu.org
<derek> from the GPL FAQ
<derek>     You can certainly get credit for the work. Part of releasing a program under the GPL is writing a copyright notice in your own name (assuming you are the copyright holder). The GPL requires all copies to carry an appropriate copyright notice.
<derek> so in essence you are not required to put in authors file or display all over the place 
<derek> just any place you would put your copyright (for your changes) you would also have to put the original authors copyright
<derek> so in the slashcode example i would expect you would ONLY have to put copyright in the source files and such
<derek> AND only in the event that you REDISTRIBUTE the work
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<derek> Kirchhoff: hopefully that answered your questions?
<Kirchhoff> derek thank you very much :)
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<derek> howdy
<jcater> howdy
<jcater> is subversions down?
<jcater> brb
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<jamest_> poor jcater
<jamest_> msn'd
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<jamest_> welcome back
<jcater> thanks
<jcater> is subversions down
<jcater> I can't update cvs
<jamest_> btw - did your clothes ever catch up w/ you?
<jamest_> ok, just a sec
<derek> you dont have the magic password then
<jcater> yes, got them back thursday
Action: derek is SHOCKED
<jamest_> no lsh is dying alot 
<jcater> lsh?
<jamest_> yip
<derek> lost luggage being found???? by an AIRLINE....
<jcater> yip
<derek> thats miraculous, i would call the press
<derek> ;)
<jcater> my zippy ties were missing, of course
<jamest_> of course
<jamest_> anything stolen
<derek> cvs update works fine for me from subversions
<derek> as of 10 seconds ago
<jamest_> derek: you're a pserver user thoug
<derek> yes i do
<jamest_> jcater uses ssh
<derek> it makes life simpler when dealing with free software foundation
<jcater> nothing stolen
<jcater> (didn't count my briefs, but don't think they'd take those)
<derek> rofl
<derek> you never know
<derek> jamest_: i sent a mail to that maintainer of dbbalancer to see if he wanted to be part of gnue
<jamest_> in any case I'm happy to see you finally got to change your clothes
<jcater> thanks
<derek> jamest_: i saw his bag, he only changed his underwear
<derek> the rest of the back was for his 'recharger'
<jamest_> still, a week with the same pair of briefs is almost too much
<derek> remember he is AI he just takes 2 hours a night to 'recharge'
<derek> which makes sense
<derek> no jcater for a week
<derek> why?
<derek> no recharger
<derek> so had to run on reserve (like a northern calif power crisis)
<jcater> rofl
<jamest_> I'm too ticked off to keep working on ash
<jamest_> stupid damn machine
<jcater> I think that's backwards
<jcater> damn stupid machine
<jamest_> I have _never_ seen bind be such an obnoxious bi0tch
<jamest_> it'll resolve all external requests just find
<jamest_> fine
<jamest_> however, no, internal requests
<jcater> is this related to subversions?
<jamest_> nope
<jcater> what is pserver?
<jamest_> it's ash
<jcater> should I be using that?
<jcater> or is my machine just fsck'ed up
<jcater> ?
<jamest_> pserver is the cvs default server - it's unsecure
<derek> jcater: pserver runs the urinal functions
<jcater> ah
<jamest_> ssh does compression and excryption
<jcater> no committed, then?
<derek> jcater: pserver just sends 'clear' password
<jcater> committed=committing
<derek> so if you arent using a password you use elsewhere pserver is probably fine
<jamest_> yeah, since a breach of derek's account doesn't put too much of his code at risk he's fine with using it
<derek> cvs -d :pserver:youruserid@subversions.gnu.org:/path/to/cvs update -Pd
<jcater> roflmao
<derek> jamest_: only reason i use it was fsf too 4 months to get ssh working properly for me :)
<jamest_> i figured it was like playing the lottery
<jamest_> one day in irc....
<jamest_> jcater:ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<jamest_> jamest:ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<jamest_> neilt:GERK!ACK!OOF!
<jamest_> others:<puke>
<jamest_> derek:ahhhhhhhh. The sweet sounds of suffering.
<derek> i have just gotten it all setup and been too lazy to change as the two times i have tried within the week subversions ssh went down but pserver didnt :)
<jamest_> :)
<jamest_> lsh is buggy
<jcater> what is lsh?
<derek> lame server here
<jcater> ah
<jamest_> an gpl'd ssh2 replacement
<jamest_> that hands off ssh1 requests to openssh on subversions
<jcater> what's wrong w/openssh
<derek> or in memphis LSH  = Long Suffering Hoss!
<jamest_> it's not gpl'd
<jcater> what is it? bsd?
<jamest_> yip
<jamest_> jcater: try now
<jcater> so they would rather use a buggy program that is LESS free?
<jcater> roflmao
<jcater> looks like it works now
<jcater> thanks
<jamest_> sure
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<jamest_> neilt: when you want to activate the script nightly
<jamest_> neilt: crontab -e
<neilt> cool
<jamest_> neilt: and remove the comment marker from the do_docs.sh script
<jamest_> i have not had time to look at script to make log
<jamest_> though this is easily done in the crontab itself if the script is just dumping to stdout/stderr
<neilt> comment marker?
<jamest_> the # sign at start of the line
<neilt> i cant have comments in my script?
<jamest_> sure you can
<jamest_> I'm talking about the crontab entry
<jamest_> I've got it commented out 
<jamest_> crontab -e
<jamest_> then remove the # on the line referencing do_docs.sh
<neilt> ok i confused
<jamest_> log into ash
<jamest_> if you have a moment
<jamest_> ok
<jamest_> now type 
<jamest_> crontab -e
Action: jamest_ is big brother :)
<jamest_> good
<jamest_> now look at bottom line
<neilt> :)
<neilt> gotit
<neilt> the comment is in the crontab entry
<jamest_> right
<neilt> jamest_: neilt: and remove the comment marker from the do_docs.sh script
<jamest_> whoops
<jamest_> :)
<neilt> what editor am I in
<jamest_> vi 
<neilt> cool, i knowt that one
<jamest_> isn't it wonderful!
<jamest_> oh wait, you know it?
<neilt> just force me to use that emacs crap
<neilt> s/just/just dont/
Action: jamest_ is off to switch neilt's env to ed
Action: neilt thinks the log is a little light tonight
<neilt> ahhhh ed
<neilt> i know that one also
<jamest_> argh!
<jamest_> emacs it is then
<neilt> started with that one many years ago
<jamest_> jcater: could you commit?
<neilt> jamest_: how did we do on the db python vs c driver face off
<jcater> committing now :)
<jamest_> not good
<jamest_> I've spent the entire day working on ash
<jamest_> trying to finish the move off of goats
<jamest_> but about to give up for the weekend 
<jamest_> and play with forms
<jamest_> before I put a fist thru the monitor
<jamest_> forms = gnue stuff
<jamest_> jcater: you found more buglets?
<neilt> sorry, to here, i did not realizze we had so much still on goats
<jcater> some related to your problem
<jamest_> all the mailing lists and half our dns
<jamest_> gnue.org points to goats which redirects to ash
<jcater> jamest_: need me to do anything?
<jamest_> jcater: ?
<jamest_> on ash, forms, or other?
<jcater> ash
<jcater> forms
<jcater> or other
<jcater> :)
<jcater> I was referring to ash
<jamest_> :)
<jamest_> well
<jamest_> log into it
<jamest_> and I'll show you what (bind8|bind9) .debs and bind9 from source all do
<jamest_> maybe you'll see something I'm not
<jcater> I'm there
<jamest_> do
<jamest_> dig @64.39.200.253 www.gnuenterprise.org
<jamest_> the responce is only getting to the machine cause I added the ISP's nameserver in /etc/resolve.conf
<jamest_> the socket.c:1019: internal_send: 64.39.200.253#53: Invalid argument
<jamest_> line is ash's attempt to deal with it
<jcater> ick
<jamest_> I'd live with this for a while BUT
<jamest_> tail /var/gnue/mailman/logs/smtp
<jamest_> which I think is related
<jamest_> as routing looks fine
<jamest_> waitaminute
<jamest_> argh!
<jcater> yes?
<jamest_> wait, nevermind
<jamest_> route looks ok
<jamest_> anyway that is where I'm at with ash
<jamest_> mailman from source or .debs  always generates that error in smpt
<jamest_> mail sent via mail or mutt works fine
<jamest_> dns resolution is wierding out
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<neilt> does any one know if python can have function names that are the same with different arg lists and are treated as different functions 
<derek> method overloading
<derek> why would you name something the same name and have different function?
<derek> i understand method overlloading
<derek> same function name / same function
<derek> but takes different parameter types
<derek> well actually i guess you could have it do diff thigns too
<derek> pascal supports this :)
<derek> dont know about python
<neilt> thats what i meant same function with different args
<jcater> neilt: don't think so
<jamest_> neilt: what are you after?
<jamest_> as you can make fields optional 
<jcater> but, you can have default values for non-used parameters or you could check the type of the parameter and act based on that
<neilt> jsut curious
<derek> jcater / jamest_ actually method overloading is different
<jamest_> and in calling the function you can put the attribute names
<neilt> i am an old c++ guy
<derek> allows you to do
<derek> foo(myvar : int)
<jamest_> derek: I know overloading
<derek> foo(myvar : float)
<derek> etc
<derek> which is pretty different than 
<derek> foo(myvar : int, myothervar : float)
<jcater> derek: that's why I said "don't think so", but gave ways to emulate
<derek> with myothervar being optional 
<jcater> :)
<derek> its probably not a good habit to use such a thing much anyhow
<derek> and why most languages dont support it
<derek> but when you need its nice
<derek> kinda like multiple inheritence
<jamest_> in python you don't need it
<jamest_> def foo(bar):
<jamest_>   if type(bar) == type([]):
<jamest_>   if type(bar) == type({}):
<jamest_> etc
[19:20] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<derek> true
<neilt> my reason for 
<neilt> i have an old function that is completely re writitten
<neilt> i want to leave old function in and no deprecate it
<neilt> and add the new function which as a new argument
<derek> i confimred that it DEFINITELY doesnt support method overloading
<neilt> and i wanted to leave the function names the same
<jamest_> neilt: are all the arguments the same in the function other than the one added?
<jamest_> foo (bar1, bar2):
<jamest_> foo (bar1, bar2, barney):
<jamest_> ?
<derek> http://www.evolt.org/article/OO_programming_the_Python_way/18/449/
<derek> is a good article one that would be good for website (gnue site)
<derek> jcater: you here?
<neilt> yes
<jamest_> neilt: then do
<jamest_> foo (bar1, bar2, barney = None):
<jamest_> and test for barney == None
<jamest_> unless None is a valid value for barney
<jamest_> then set it to something not valid
<neilt> yuck
<jamest_> yuck?
<neilt> the interface is the same except the extra arg
<neilt> byt the implementation is entirely different
<neilt> so I have this big if statement
<jamest_> no, no
<neilt> not very object oriented
<jamest_> oldfoo1
<jamest_> oldfoo2
<neilt> then there is that oldfoo1 oldfoo2
<jamest_> yes
<neilt> which is what i did
<jamest_> but you've got 2 functoins doing different stuff w/ the same name
<neilt> same function
<neilt> different implementation
<jamest_> ok
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<jamest_> whimper
<jamest_> my postgresql just self-desctructed
<jcater> masta hitting harder w/whip now?
<jamest_> is that possible?
<jcater> that postgresql self-destructed? or masta hitting harder?
<jamest_> leather can only take so much stress
<jamest_> jcater: you here?
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<jamest_> l8r
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<neilt> hold on
<neilt> too late
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<neilt> later all
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<ra3vat> later
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<jcater> howdy
Action: jcater wants a license plate that reads "howdy"
<jcater> ...or "hey yall"
<Mr_You> hehe why?
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<Mr_You> hehe why?
<jcater_> it'd be cool
<Mr_You> sometimes when I say howdy, I think someone might think I'm a cowboy or somethin hehe
Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater
<Mr_You> but its just a friendly hello
<Mr_You> are you from the south?
<jcater> yip
<Mr_You> ok good, I'd hope so ;-)
<Mr_You> some other southern license plates.. GRITS
<Mr_You> PIGSKINS
<jcater> lol
<jcater> you from south?
<Mr_You> yeah NC
<jcater> cool
<jcater> REDNECK
<Mr_You> heh
<Mr_You> YEEHAW
<jcater> :)
<Mr_You> a few of us went to Krispu Kreme tonight
<Mr_You> Krispy
<jcater> mmm...one of my favorite southern traditions
<jcater> gotta run... you've got me craving krispy kreme now
<jcater> there's one a few miles away
<Mr_You> haha.. yeah.. 
<Mr_You> bye
<Mr_You> don't eat too many.. they save good ;-)
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<derek> sup chilly dawg
<chillywilly> waddup 'g'
<derek> just cold chillin' wit da hunys
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> you mean your wife?
<chillywilly> ;)
<derek> and daughters
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> how many kids you got?
<derek> 3
<derek> 2 girls (6 and 3)
<derek> 1 boy (8 mos)
<chillywilly> ah
<derek> and me the 'big kid'
<chillywilly> we were at a friends house they got 4 kids but they are very young too...around 26 or so
<derek> wow 4 kids 
<derek> 3 is enuff here, for now :)
<chillywilly> I think they had their first one when they were 16
Action: ajmitch has none... :)
Action: chillywilly thinks masta is a good dad
<derek> chillywilly: im an ok dad, should spend more time with kids less with computer
<chillywilly> you're not on too much
<derek> hahaha
<derek> i suppose it could be worse
<dtm> hi all
<dtm> chillywilly: 16 eh? :)
<chillywilly> so?
<dtm> i don't understand why someone would do a major crime like a robbery, and then stay in the same geographical area.  or even the same country.
<dtm> they could disappear at any time with enough money.
<derek> dtm: if you had spent in time in WI, you would understand why being 16 and pregnant is common.  (ie there aint much to do, and its cold)
<dtm> derek: i understand it quite well.  i'm from KS.
<chillywilly> oh plz
<chillywilly> it hasn't even gotten cold yet
<derek> chillywilly: chill it was a joke
<dtm> hah
<derek> my friend in madison calls all the time 
<derek> i say wow looks like its cold (16 degrees or so)
<dtm> derek: if that's a joke, then it's a totally accurate one for a lot of people :)
<derek> his response (he is in concrete business) "we are still working without our shirts on"
<dtm> derek: HA
<derek> about 0 we start putting on clothes
<chillywilly> I think ppl are allowed to make mistakes
<derek> and -10 or so it starts to get cold
<dtm> chillywilly: no they're not!  no mistakes!
<chillywilly> they are doing pretty damn good now
<dtm> I, for one, do not make mistakes.
<derek> and im thinking damn it gets under 75 im frozen
<dtm> I'm pretty sure derek doesn't either.
<dtm> people can make typos, but that's it.
<dtm> ;)
<chillywilly> I think it is caool that they have stayed together for so long
<derek> once i thought was wrong but i was mistaken
<dtm> chillywilly: in the case of your buddies, that's pretty good :)
<dtm> chillywilly: staying together's probably one of the most important things at that point
<chillywilly> 70 is like summer or something
<derek> chillywilly: thats not summer, summer is 115 or something
<chillywilly> they just had the last one about a year ago
<chillywilly> he's a little cutie
<derek> i still cant believe ive been married 7 years
<chillywilly> derek: you can't handle the frozen tundra of WI?!?
<derek> chillywilly: nope i surely cant
<derek> 67 in san fran had me a little bit cold
Action: chillywilly has thick blood
<dtm> derek: i got a proportionately similar thing going on here.  i'm from KS, living in CA.  so they think a mist is like a downpour, that a thunderstorm is like a tornado, and that heat and cold are like desert or tundra
<dtm> they think that > 80 F is hot, and that < 60 F is freezing
<dtm> a lot of them don't understand the concept of changing their attire to suit the weather, either
<dtm> like wearing three sweaters when it's cold
<chillywilly> well I think living where it is really cold, you can live anywhere else ;)
<chillywilly> actaully I'd rather have 4 seasons
<chillywilly> if not I would probably be really confused
<derek> we have four seasons
<chillywilly> how much snow do you get in winter?
<chillywilly> ;P
<derek> hot (summer), really hot (spring), im melting (summer), hey i touched the sun and lived to tell about it (fall)
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> anywho
<derek> kind of like sticky (summer), cold (fall), i cant feel my extremities (winter), hey my left nut just unthawed (spring) in WI
<chillywilly> where's a good trigger example?
<chillywilly> I saw the one but it did not look very useful
<derek> the best triggers are on smith and wessons
<chillywilly> or do I need to finish RTFM
<chillywilly> eh yea...ummm lemme pull this trigger here
<chillywilly> put your finger at the end of the barrel
<chillywilly> lets see if it works like in bugs bunny
Action: chillywilly should make a docbook version now so he may purge the evil xforms
<chillywilly> brb
<chillywilly> back
<chillywilly> masta
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<jcater> howdy
<jcater> jcater: hey, how goes it
<jcater> jcater: well, fine. thanks for asking
<jcater> jcater: no problem
Action: jcater enjoys talking to himself
<chillywilly> uh
<chillywilly> ok
<jcater> chillywilly: howdy
<chillywilly> howdy
<jcater> it's one of those days :)
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> maybe you can help me make my forms work?
<chillywilly> I am using the stable releases
<chillywilly> as cvs is forked up
<jcater> what the problem?
<jcater> in my experience, forms works fine... it's typically the end-user.
<chillywilly> I know I am just trying to figure out how to use it
<chillywilly> I have it use a datasource and I havea field
<chillywilly> but i cannot commit what I put in there
<jcater> you using it against postgresql?
<chillywilly> I have a block with a label and entry widget
<chillywilly> yes
<chillywilly> c
<chillywilly> woops
<jcater> what message are you getting?
<chillywilly> one sec
<chillywilly> first it was about not null fields
<chillywilly> now...
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> it is all those not null fields
<chillywilly> it doesn't like me
<chillywilly> just bad table design
<chillywilly> I guess
<chillywilly> ConnectionError: Error inserting into t_books: ERROR:  ExecAppend: Fail to add null value in not null attribute course_number1
<chillywilly> or is it possible to have it commit "" for a field?
<jcater> do you have a course_number1 field defined in your form?
<chillywilly> or is that the same damn thing as null
<chillywilly> no
<jcater> most db's treat that as a null
<chillywilly> yea
<jcater> although technically it is different
<chillywilly> if so whay can I do?
<chillywilly> change the table?
<chillywilly> or is there a better way to hac around it?
<chillywilly> hack
<jcater> either you have to: 
<jcater> 1) prompt for the field
<jcater> 2) make it not null
<jcater> 3) make it default to something
<jcater> err
<jcater> 2) make it not not null
<chillywilly> maybe I should look at  the PHP code once
<jcater> um
<jcater> I hate to do this
<jcater> but I need to run
<jcater> (wife is upset)
<chillywilly> eeeek
<chillywilly> women
<chillywilly> heh
<jcater> sorry, she takes precedence over tech support
<jcater> l8r
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<chillywilly> of course
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--- Mon Sep 10 2001