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<uday> derek: A week or two back we had requested for registering into the gnue team and were told that we would receive a communication from you but we have not received any mail
<uday> derek: could you please look into the matter
<uday> where can I find the gcd file format information
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<uday> can someone help me find the gcd file format information 
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<reinhard> uday: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/GNUeModuleGuide/main/x369.html
<uday>  reinhard: thank you
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<uday> reinhard: should the methods of business objects be written only in C/Python?
<jamest> uday: we plan on adding support for more langs
<jamest> i think C support may be going away in geas
<jamest> key word is _think_
<uday> jamest: what other lang are being considered at present?
<jamest> I can't speak for the geas coders but we were at one time shooting for an easily extendable method extention system
<jamest> so you could plug in lang of choice
<reinhard> yeah what jamest says is correct from my point of view
<reinhard> sorry for not looking but i have kids today :)
<reinhard> best is to write in python
<reinhard> but be aware that method handling is broken at the moment
<reinhard> neilt is working on it
<uday> reinhard: I was getting errors with methods too today
<reinhard> other than python we will probably support ubiquitous guile
<reinhard> maybe perl for the freaks
<reinhard> and of course logo for jamest :)
<reinhard> uday: yes please you have to be a _little_ patient
<jamest> hey reinhard
<reinhard> i hope within a week or so we can fix methods
<jamest> don't recall if I told you that geas-server works on solaris
<jamest> at least it runs
<reinhard> you told me that it compiles
<jamest> it runs
<reinhard> thanks
<jamest> but
<jamest> :)
<reinhard> good news :)
<jamest> did the passwd option in geas.conf go away?
<jamest> i see ref to a shadowpw file in the comments
<reinhard> not sure how this passwd stuff works
<reinhard> all i know this security stuff is only alibi
<reinhard> and not real
<reinhard> so i simply ignore it till we have a _real_ concept
<jamest> but this password is what gives logon access to geas 
<reinhard> i agree that security is very _important_
<jamest> to the backend database
<reinhard> but not _urgent_
<jamest> not the user passwords into geas
<jamest> roflmao
<reinhard> ah
<jamest> did you guys see the list of banned songs
<jamest> mentioned on slashdot
<reinhard> jamest: this option for the db password is still there
<reinhard> iirc
<reinhard> ah no
<reinhard> crap
<reinhard> how did that work??
<jamest> you must look at it
<reinhard> can it be that i don't need a password to connect to the db?
<jamest> reinhard: depends on the db and your settings, but yes
<reinhard> i jsut give the username to connect to the postgres db
<reinhard> ok so i probably have set it up like that
<jamest> Along with all rage against the machine songs 
<jamest> you have such flith as
<jamest> Frank Sinatra "New York, New York" 
<jamest> Cat Stevens "Morning Has Broken" 
<jamest> John Lennon "Imagine" 
<jamest> hmmm
<jamest> reinhard: you here
<jamest> ?
<ToyMan> hi guys
<ToyMan> are you folks working on integrating ldap into gnue???
<reinhard> jamest: yes
<reinhard> REM "It's the End of the World as We Know It" 
<jamest> ToyMan: I wanted to see an ldap driver and eventually user/config info in ldap 
<ToyMan> ahhh.  good
<jamest> but that's a ways down the road
<reinhard> ink Floyd "Mother" 
<reinhard> Pink even
<ToyMan> it would be nice to have a centralized repository
<jamest> reinhard: at home i get a geas server running
<jamest> here i get
<jamest> euler$ ./geas-server
<jamest> Trying to open config file '/usr/local/etc/geas.conf'
<jamest> nope, so trying config file 'geas.conf'
<jamest> Loading aliases from file 'geas-alias.cfg'
<ToyMan> so all that data entry could be used by other programs easily
<jamest> and it hangs
<reinhard> jamest: you have latest cvs?
<reinhard> oh man this list is really...
<reinhard> Bangles "Walk Like an Egyptian"
<jamest> yes, as of a few minutes ago
<jamest> at home last night I could get farther into the system
<reinhard> could be method issues
<reinhard> methods code is being worked on at the moment
<jamest> ok, no biggie
<reinhard> so you could try to remove all calls to *method* functions in geas-server.c
<jamest> was just wanting to play a bit
<reinhard> or you could configure with --enable-debug
<jamest> ok
<reinhard> Yager and Evans "In the Year 2525" 
<reinhard> this is great
<reinhard> most of these songs are actually ANTI war songs
<reinhard> or have nothing to do w/ war at all
<jamest> don't you just love it
<jamest> can't have any of that vile peace and love crap occupying peoples thoughts
<reinhard> Nina "99 Luft Balloons/99 Red Balloons"
<reinhard> that's even a german song
<reinhard> didn't think you know that at all in the u.s.
<jamest> of course they listed songs describing violence as well
<jamest> guess they want our little heads filled with no thoughts at all
<jamest> probably worried that sales of N-Sync and Backstreet Boys albums would drop if people started to use their heads
<reinhard> hehe
<jamest> as for 99 Red Balloons
<jamest> it was really popular here quite a few years ago
<jamest> both english and german versoins were on the air
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<ghunt> hi all
<jamest> hello
<ghunt> anything interresting today ?
<jamest> not that I'm aware of
<ghunt> seems there's not much activity down here
<jamest> all depends on the day
<jamest> most of us have real jobs that keep us busy
<jamest> they seem to think we should work at work for some reason :)
<ghunt> lol
<jamest> you've been in here before right?
<ghunt> yes
<ghunt> mainly interrested in cost analysis
<jamest> ah
<jamest> you played w/ any of the existing tools yet?
<ghunt> will be the subject of my memoire
<ghunt> not yet
<ghunt> i'm a trainee in an open-source-based-solutions-business to devellop a cost analysis "module"
<ghunt> so if what i do may be usefull ...
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<jamest> ghunt: cool
<ghunt> what's cool ?
<jamest> i thought you were suggesting that you might do the cost analysis and let us look at it
<jamest> module
<ghunt> well in fact, i do not program ...
<ghunt> i will create the method
<ghunt> based on the DB
<ghunt> i'm in a commerce school ... not in an IT school
<jamest> ah
<ghunt> this why i asked yesterday if a DB schema was available
<ghunt> and reinhard told me geas does it on it's own (no sql)
<ghunt> what would have been usefull
<ghunt> :-)
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<jcater> howdy
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<dru> jamest!
<jamest> hello
<dru> how are u?
<jamest> fine, and you
<dru> my xchat colour is out of sync
<dru> good.
<dru> a bit hungry
<dru> you awfully quiet
<chillywilly> he's never really there.....:P
<dru> god is
<chillywilly> well that goes without saying
<dru> yes
<jamest> I'm almost here
<jamest> honest
<dru> so is god
<dru> anyway
Action: jamest is about to make a change that would require python 2.0+
<jamest> in gnuef
<jamest> which we all seem to agree upon being OK
<dru> licencing is fixed
<jamest> but I'll give everyone one last chance
<dru> quick do it.
<jamest> as it'll be a major PITA for people that use distros w/ 1.5.2
<jamest> aka - every stinking one of them
<dru> if you change it quick enough no one will notice. well thats how i regard major system changes.
<jcater> jamest: if ppl used slackware, they'd have 2.0
<jcater> so nah
<dru> package with python version 2.0.
<dru> you have the bandwidth. use it
<jamest> i have 56k modem
<jamest> that != bandwidth
<dru> well server does
<dru> external 56?
<dru> cuase you can squezze a bit more out them
<jamest> ok, how do people feel about jumping to 2.1?
<dru> ok now your jumping a bit far
<dru> though i'm nto one to comment
<dru> how much should it be in version 2.1 and not 1.5?
<dru> is it cause of a bug?
<dru> or is it cause of a design flaw?
<jamest> 1.5 has issues
<jamest> we've got kludges in the code to cope
<jamest> and a huge one is typecasting
<chillywilly> well that goes without sayingdebian sid has both versions
<chillywilly> woops
<jamest> foo = 10L
<jamest> that's a long int
<chillywilly> debian sid has both versions
<jamest> str(foo) in 1.5.2 = "10L"
<jcater> does debian sid have 2.1 or 2.0?
<jamest> str(foo) in 2.x  = "10"
<dru> how big difference between 2.1 and 2?
<chillywilly> jcater: 2.0
<jamest> argh crap
<jamest> i have to leave for a while
<jcater> NO
<dru> hav efun
<jcater> jamest: Just say no to the users
<dru> do what you think is best
<dru> damn whatever else thinks
<dru> gdb calls. i must be off
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<ghunt> is there deb packages for gnue ?
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<ghunt> reinhard: hi
<ghunt> what are the essentials of gnue?
<ghunt> geas and common ?
<reinhard> ghunt: sorry
<reinhard> just being mad goat raped today
<ghunt> why sorry ?
<reinhard> think i got like 30 phone calls over the last 2 hours
<reinhard> sorry for not having time to answer your questions
<ghunt> np
<reinhard> you be on later this evening?
<reinhard> if you are belgium you are same timezone than me
<ghunt> nope : following from traineeship
<ghunt> at home, have a 56.6 modem
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<ghunt> and comm costs are high in Belgium
<ghunt> :-(
<reinhard> ok so in a nutshell
<reinhard> each component can be used standalone
<reinhard> or in combination
<reinhard> so no essentials for gnue
<reinhard> like you ask "what are the essentials for ms office"
<reinhard> word, excel, or access...
<ghunt> thanks
<reinhard> each one has it's job and can be used for itself
<ghunt> k
<reinhard> so what you should look at depends on what you want to do
<ghunt> will testb each
<reinhard> FOR THE LOGS:
<reinhard> we really need an overview on the website
<reinhard> that explains questions like these
<reinhard> ---------
<chillywilly> agreed
<chillywilly> :P
<ghunt> k
<ghunt> thanks
<chillywilly> don't we have a FAQ?
<chillywilly> guess not
<jcater> I had started on this some time ago:
<jcater> http://ash.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/blurb.html
<chillywilly> ah
<ghunt> try this : http://www.gnuenterprise.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index
<chillywilly> heh, just saw the recent news post
<chillywilly> Java == baaaaad for Free Software?
<ghunt> as java is not totaly free !!!
<chillywilly> or J2EE == baaaad
<chillywilly> well the thing tha sucks about Java is it is more then a programming langauge it is an entrire environment and most of that code is not Free Software
<chillywilly> unlike python ;)
<dtm> how are you gentlemen.
<chillywilly> and C and C++ are only languages
<chillywilly> fine thanks
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<dtm> chillywilly: can't java be used only as a language, like C?  without an environment?  if you use a binary compiler maybe?
<neilt> hello all
<dtm> neilt: hi
<neilt> reinhard: you around
<reinhard> neilt: on the phone :(
Nick change: neilt -> neilt-lunch
<neilt-lunch> i'll be back in 30 minutes or less
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<chillywilly> dtm: sure and there are Free projects like GNU Classpath and Free JVMs, but that takes time
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<ghunt> how can i get it started ?
<jamest> get what started
<ghunt> gnue-Common
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<derek> jcater: what do you know about wxListCtrl?
<jcater> little
<jcater> it's poorly documented
<jcater> and not fully implemented in wxPython
<derek> well damn it how can i fix designer then
<jcater> but I was kludging around w/it in designer
<derek> im thinking maybe grid would be better than list
<derek> in one spot (though i have no idea how well grids work in wx)
<jcater> grids are a new addition IIRC so are still very buggy
<jcater> but I am successfully using grids in places
<jcater> so it depends on what you are doing
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<derek> arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this documentation blows
<derek> you have a list box
<derek> and you do 
<derek> lstbx.insertcolumn(0, stuff)
<derek> lstbx.insertcolumn(1, stuff)
<derek> lstbx.insertcolumn(2, stuff)
<derek> which gives you a list box with three columns
<derek> HOWEVER
<derek> lstbx.InsertStringItem(0, 'some data')
<derek> puts data in colmun 0 as desired
<derek> BUT
<ghunt> neilt: is there a trikky way to launch GNUe modules or am I too bad in IT ?
<derek> lstbx.InsertStringItem(1, 'some data')
<derek> puts data
<derek> on row 2
<derek> column 0
<derek> i tried
<neilt> ghunt: not sure what you mean
<derek> lstbx.InsertStringItem(0, 'value 1', 'value 2', 'value 3') 
<derek> at first 
<neilt> ghunt: you need to point geas to gnue-config
<ghunt> neilt: well i got the 4 available modules installed but can't get them running !
<neilt> right now all we have are class definitions
<neilt> none the forms are done
<neilt> because the geas driver for forms os BROKEN
<neilt> but they will load in geas
<ghunt> neilt: how do i get him point ?
<neilt> you need to have this in gnue.conf
<neilt> # where to look for GCD (Gnue Class Definition) files
<neilt> # classdir            /usr/local/share/geas
<neilt> # classdir            ../examples/businessobjects
<neilt> classdir            ../../gnue-config
<ghunt> ls
<ghunt> sorry
<neilt> note that the # is a comment
<neilt> so you really only need the last line
<neilt> that would be gnue/geas/src/gnue.conf
<neilt> assuming that you are running geas from cvs
<neilt> and have the same directory structure as cvs
<neilt> reinhard: you here
<reinhard> neilt: yes
Action: derek kicks wxWindows
<derek> dont they have cvs online somewhere
<neilt> i have modifications to methods that are not checked in
<neilt> i am solving the naming problem
<neilt> and should be finished on friday
<neilt> can you check to see if methods compiles for both versions and let me know if you have any other problems
<neilt> with current cvs
<reinhard> neilt: i can only check if it compiles
<reinhard> or should i try to run a method outside a module?
<neilt> can you check the c methods to see if they still work
<neilt> or do they have the same naming problem
<reinhard> ok i can
<reinhard> i think they have same naming problem
<reinhard> i will look
<reinhard> this evening
<neilt> ok thanks, i will not be around much today or tomorrow
<neilt> but will be spending a full day on GNUe on Thursday or Friday
<reinhard> cool
<neilt> later all
<reinhard> l8r neilt
<neilt> ghunt: did you get it working?
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<ghunt> neilt: not yet (but trying hard !)
<ghunt> seems my structure is not the same as cvs
<ghunt> will continue trying tomorrow
<ghunt> getting home
<ghunt> bye all
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<derek> jcLunch: I BEAT THE wxListCtrl
<derek> i dont know what they are thinking
<derek> maybe its a python thing, but its just silly
<derek> on the InsertStringItem method it appears you can only set one column
<derek> so then you have to do SetStringItem to do subsequent columns
<derek> let me know when you are back
<derek> i have a question directly for designer now
Nick change: jcLunch -> jcater
<jcater> derek: I am back
<derek> if i go to create another template type
<derek> __init.py from templates calls forms/reports which
<derek> __init__.py states
<derek> def GetAvailableTemplates():
<derek>   import Simple
<derek>   return [Simple.TemplateInformation]
<derek> for getavailabletemplates
<derek> is that correct?
<derek> i.e.
<derek> do i need to make it
<derek> def GetAvailableTemplates():
<derek>   import Simple
<derek>   import OtherSimple
<derek>   return [Simple.TemplateInformation]
<derek> er
<derek>   return [Simple.TemplateInformation, OtherSimple.TemplateInformation]
<derek> the return is what has me concerned
<jcater> why so?
<jcater> actually, hang on...
<derek> unfamilar with python i suppose
<jcater> currently
<jcater> TemplateChooser does nothing but waste your time
<jcater> it's hard coded to call Simple.py
<jcater> Getting TemplateChooser to work is next step
<jcater> (I was wanting to get wizards in general tested, that's why I committed and asked y'all to test it)
<jcater> what I intend to do
<jcater> is make GetAvailableTemplates()
<jcater> automatically determine what is in
<derek>       for template in package.GetAvailableTemplates():
<derek> correct
<derek> im looking to extend this
<jcater> the templates/form/ directory
<derek> i have the list box working correctly now
<jcater> how so?
<derek> was going to add another simple stupid template
<derek> but looked and it appeared hardcoded :)
<derek> thats why i was asking :)
<derek> but if i hardcode another one will it work?
<derek> if so i will do that to test something
<jcater> to answer your question, for now, yes, add the import AnotherSimple and [Simple, AnotherSimple]
<jcater> addition
<derek> then can make it to scan a directory
<derek> to get that list
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<jcater> but also, if you look at TemplateChooser.run() it always runs Simple.py :)
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<derek> doh
<jcater> as I didn't have lists working yet
<jcater> that's why I said TemplateChooser wastes your time right now :)
<derek> well i think i about have lists working
<derek> just need to add another template to verify that :)
<jcater> for now, add your code to forms/__init__.py
<derek> ok
<jcater> and you should be able to verify it
<derek> whoo hoo
<derek> suns a biziotch
<derek> it dun work
<jcater> coolness
<derek> still long way to go
<jcater> ?
<derek> we need that frame bigger and ability to sort them
<derek> etc etc
<derek> all piddly little UI crap
<derek> as currently we have like 5 columns but the form is barely big enough to display name and desc :)
<jcater> my long-term intention
<jcater> was to have a smaller list box
<jcater> (or no list box at all, but icons)
<derek> no list box?
<jcater> and a static text area below the list
<derek> i think the list box is good
<jcater> that showed all the properties in a readable format
<derek> i was wondering on the tabs though
<derek> at first was thinking ditch tab
<jcater> for the currently selected list item
<derek> and do
<derek> image - templatename - desc
<derek> where image showed if it was a report or a form
Action: jcater likes the separation
<derek> me too
<derek> more i think about it
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<derek> is this your hardcoded run
<derek>    if completed:
<derek>       from gnue.designer.templates.forms import Simple
<derek>       return Simple.TemplateInformation
<derek>     else:
<derek>       return None
<derek> in template chooser?
<jcater> yes
<derek> here is my change
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/designer/src$ cvs $GNUECVS diff TemplateChooser.py
<derek> Index: TemplateChooser.py
<derek> ===================================================================
<derek> RCS file: /home/cvs/gnue/designer/src/TemplateChooser.py,v
<derek> retrieving revision 1.5
<derek> diff -r1.5 TemplateChooser.py
<derek> 112c112,116
<derek> <         ctrl.InsertStringItem(0,template['Name'])
<derek> ---
<derek> >         ctrl.InsertStringItem(0, template['Name'])
<derek> >         ctrl.SetStringItem(0, 1, template['Description'])
<derek> >         ctrl.SetStringItem(0, 2, template['Product'])
<derek> >         ctrl.SetStringItem(0, 3, template['Author'])
<derek> >         ctrl.SetStringItem(0, 4, template['Version'])
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/designer/src$ 
<derek> so that it populates all the data in the listbox
<jamest> argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<jamest> derek's in the code again!
<derek> i am out of time and have to smack on hcs stuff now
<derek> but i suppose now its a matter of tying an event to the listbox
<derek> so it knows what you select
<derek> and handing back template.templateinformation
<jamest> why is that hardcoded?
<derek> well we woudl be un hardcoding it
<jcater> jamest: It's hardcoded because I am a control freak
<derek> first step i think is to get the event and pass the info
<jcater> YOU WILL ONLY RUN WIZARDS APPROVED BY ME
<derek> so that you can hard code __init__.py
<jcater> mwahahaha
<derek> and still use multi
<jamest> jcater: i like your attitude
<derek> the second step woudlb e to fix __init__.py to intelligently scan one or more dirs for templates
<derek> IMHO
<jcater> derek: can you (gulp!) commit your changes and I will look at other aspects
<derek> or we can just leave it all hardcoded :)
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<derek> done
<jamest> jcater: argh! do you realize what you've done?
Action: jcater is breaking a sweat now
<derek> its my evil plan
<jamest> btw derek 
<jamest> I'm about to commit something that makes python 2.0+ required
<derek> i start committing changes and jamest/jcater get nervous enough to code like hell to keep me out :)
<derek> jamest: naturally
<jamest> so all us poor 1.5.2 users are about to be s.o.l
<derek> after i just downloaded and installed wx* for python 1.5.2
<derek> about 10 minutes ago
<derek> requiring python2.0 will help for reports i think
<derek> as i think the xslt stuff is better supported in 2.x
<jamest> what about jumping to 2.1.1 ?
<derek> jamest: if you're gonna bleed, you might as well gush
<derek> btw: the dudes in south america that wnated to write workflow
<derek> that were gonna be sponsored by thier govt
<derek> they informed me they are undergoing a civl war right now, but they hope to start soon
Action: jamest is dumbstruck
<jamest> ok, so no one is going to yell about 2.x right
<jamest> and 2.1.1 might be ok?
<jcater> works for me :)
<jamest> going once
<derek> um 2.1.1 might be pushing it
<derek> what is in woody?
<jamest> 2.0
<derek> and that is frozen?
<derek> if so we might want to stick with 2.x
<jamest> depends on the definition of frozen
<jamest> :)
<derek> if not 2.1.1 might not be too bad
<jamest> ok, I guess we can live with 2.0
<jamest> but 2.1 has L33T FEATURES(tm) or something
Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<derek> is this madlocke?
<derek> ENTERPRISE      Michael Maluck 
<derek> if so his assignment is verified
<jamest> i saw that
<jamest> i'll be mailing him today
<jcater> my poor reports engine
<jcater> it has been rape, pilmaged, and generally fscked up
<jamest> the mad branching goats did it!
<jcater> damned be those goats
<jamest> can you get the older copies from cvs?
<jamest> pre-branch stuff?
<jcater> I dunno
<jcater> I'm all confused
<jcater> it wasn't touched in the branch
<jcater> so that's not it
<jamest> i vote we blame derek
<jcater> ok
<jcater> derek: damn you
<jamest> btw - cvs no longer works on 1.5.2
<jamest> i told you I'd do it
<jamest> but you didn't believe me
<jamest> why didn't you believe me!?!?!
<jamest> (fwiw it's a simple += usage in a single line)
<jamest> so if too many people scream we can roll back easy :)
<jcater> ooooh
<jcater> I'm excited about that new feature
<jcater> :)
<jcater> of course, now I have to upgrade everything :(
<chillywilly> thanks jamest
<chillywilly> you're a rela pal
<chillywilly> real even
<jamest> jcater: I thought you were using 2.X?
<jcater> at home
<jamest> chillywilly: no problem, we kept talking about it so I decided I'd like to be the ass that broke things for people
Action: jcater has 5 machines w/cvs that I develop from
<jamest> jcater: same here on home systems
<jcater> 2 are on 2.x
Action: jamest is looking forward to python over 56k
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> jamest: I think you have problems wiht taking out tou luser frustrations on us
<chillywilly> s/tou/out
<jcater> ok... think I have it figured out
<jcater> cvs reports is most current
<jamest> jcater: the answer is 42
<jcater> my local copy was severely fsck'ed up
Action: chillywilly hopes the lusers are good to jamest
<derek> jamest: naturally you commit that about 2 minutes after i send a last and final
<derek> email to gnucash list about dependency no no's :)
Action: chillywilly wonders why removeing old python packages made it upgrade fetchmail
<jamest> ahh.............the abuse
<jamest> chillywilly: we can't seem to make python2 the default in woody
Action: chillywilly flails wildly at jamest
<chillywilly> hrrrrm
<jamest> removing 1.5.2 removes a proverbial shitload of stuff
<jamest> including things like xchat
<chillywilly> *joy*
<chillywilly> haha!
<chillywilly> upgrade to sid then
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> hmmm, just took fetchnmailconf with it
<chillywilly> aw sheeet
<chillywilly> there goes xchat
<chillywilly> damn you
<jcater> why are you uninstalling?
<chillywilly> gnucash went too
<chillywilly> I dunno
<chillywilly> cause I am mental like that I guess
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<derek> ouch
<derek> how did you do python2.0 then?
<derek> i thought you said python2.0 was in woody?
<jamest> it is in woody
<jamest> so is 1.5.2
<jamest> they coexist
<jamest> you just can't remove 1.5.2
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Action: chillywilly reinstalls it now
<chillywilly> weee
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> I am getting a new xchat now
<chillywilly> 1.8.3
<chillywilly> ooooooh
<chillywilly> aaaaaaaaaah
<derek> jamest: ok thats a GOOD thing
<derek> in fact makes me more comfy in saying need 2.x
<derek> as people can keep 1.5.2
<derek> for the stuff they need
<chillywilly> just make them all use debian
<derek> anyone know of a website that when you click a link it opens a new window?
<chillywilly> ;P
<reinhard> derek: http://www.bytewise.org/Links.html
<reinhard> derek: http://www.bytewise.at/Links.html of course
<chillywilly> we should code GNUe bytewise or something
<chillywilly> one byte at a time
<reinhard> :)
<derek> mind me borrowing some code :)
<chillywilly> in asm, blind folded, while the goats have theor way
<chillywilly> that's jamest's punishment I think
<chillywilly> brb
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<derek> dang is it as easy as target="_blank"
<derek> ?
<chillywilly> I got 1.8.3 now
<derek> reinhard: btw what do you think of the gnucash discussion we have been having
<derek> chillywilly: write me a python plugin for xchat
<chillywilly> gnucash discussion?
<derek> that reads current window typing from any user
<chillywilly> xchat does python scripts
<derek> and if they say linux w/o the gnu/
<chillywilly> oh
<chillywilly> heheh
<derek> it auto responds to them "You really should say GNU/Linux"
<derek> and i will install it :)
<chillywilly> lol
<chillywilly> RMS would love me then right?
<jcater> chillywilly: no, because you weren't using scheme
<chillywilly> darn
<chillywilly> well xchat only does python and perl
<chillywilly> no guile plugin
<chillywilly> I'll call it the GNU's Not Linux plugin ;)
<jamest> lol
<jamest> so any death threats heading my way yet?
<jcater> Argh!
<derek> reinhard: your link page saved me hours worth of fighting javascript thank you :)
<derek> jamest: you may wish to NOT open any 'suspicious' mail in the following weeks
<reinhard> derek: :)
<jamest> :)
<chillywilly> heheh
<Mr_You> kinda weird my first programming app in years is a bofh daemon ;-)
<Mr_You> now everyone can laugh at my silly skills
<Mr_You> seems like I have to relogin more than I use to and it doesn't remember my username
<Mr_You> doh
<Mr_You> yahoomail
<chillywilly> it torments the users?
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<Mr_You> it torments processes for now..
<Mr_You> I'll be damned if it becomes some bloated perl app like interchange tho ;-)
<chillywilly> deletes random files?
<chillywilly> changes their passwords
<Mr_You> no, basicly just renices run away processes automatically to keep them from killing your system, then it will eventually kill them if you want
<chillywilly> it renices the processes?
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> well that's not malicious
<chillywilly> I thought this was a bofh daemon
<Mr_You> hehe
<Mr_You> it has the power of bofh ;-)
<chillywilly> k
<Mr_You> I needed a cute name.. its the best one ;-)
<Mr_You> tty_pty on #unix efnet suggested it
<Mr_You> have a name to suggest? ;-)
<chillywilly> k
<chillywilly> ummmm
<derek> jamest you here?
<derek> reinhard / jcater?
<derek> have critical quesitons
<jcater> um, no
<Mr_You> realnice originally
<jcater> wazzup?
<Mr_You> sarcastic
<chillywilly> what was wrong with realnice?
<chillywilly> it is sorta snappy
<chillywilly> spiffy
<derek> gnue tshirts we wanting to do
<chillywilly> zippy
<derek> and do we think we can sell any :)
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<derek> fsf i think is willing to pay someone to design and draw up our design
<Mr_You> well you could extend it.. and lots of admins would like bohfd ;-)
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<derek> and pay for an initial run of shirts
<chillywilly> I want the savannah gnu in the suit
<derek> chillywilly: but would you buy one for 20 bucks :)
<chillywilly> that wass the coolest idea, imho
<chillywilly> you need to get those guys to draw one for ya though
<chillywilly> heck yea
<chillywilly> why would it cost 20 bucks?
<derek> i figure if we can get 5 people to commit to a 20 shirt that should go along way towards initial design etc
<derek> chillywilly: thats what we would sell them for
<nickr> 20$? hahaha
<chillywilly> oh
<derek> as they are a tax deductable donation to GNUe
<chillywilly> well yea I think it would be really nice
<derek> i.e. its a fund raiser thing
<chillywilly> :P
Action: derek releases 20 for tshirt is on the expensive side
<derek> er realizes not releases
<chillywilly> the chillywilly fund?
<chillywilly> heheh
Action: derek would prefer polo shirts with embroidered logo
<Mr_You> if I get some income I'll buy one for $20 easily
<derek> but those have a much steeper entry cost
<Mr_You> yeah that sounds good
Action: chillywilly holds his virtual tin can out and rattles it
<chillywilly> chillywilly and Mr_You fund
<jamest> derek: no time to talk, I'm abusing jcater!
<Mr_You> collard polo-like shirt
<nickr> I'd buy one for $20 if it were a really nice tshirt
<nickr> like ultraheavy cotton
<derek> nickr: it woudl be standard hanes type tshirt
<Mr_You> I'd buy a polo-like GNUe shirt for a donation price of $40
<nickr> bleh.
<derek> the cost isnt cause its a great shirt, but cause its a donation
<derek> if we did it all ourselves without FSF
<Mr_You> get me one of those
<derek> we could probably get the cost down
<chillywilly> nickr: you no the floating GNU, imgaine him ina a suit or something looking all business-like
<Mr_You> derek: you'll sell more non-t-shirt I think
<derek> and maybe do shirts for 18 or 16
<Mr_You> derek: or have the option ;-)
<derek> Mr_You: i agree
<derek> BUT it costs a lot more out of pocket for the polo type shirts
<derek> i would like to offer both
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> galeon won't compile
<chillywilly> grrr
<Mr_You> well $40 donation cost sounds good to me.. just take orders in advance
<nickr> just gimme the hires print-ready image and access to a color laser printer and some of that xfer paper..
<Mr_You> make a prototype
<jcater> um
<jcater> $40 is a little steep :)
<Mr_You> well.. considering $60 is about the going rate for a cheap polo, and you are donating ;-) but just buy the t-shirt version for $20 ;-)
<jamest> I'd prefer the polo if it looked good
<jamest> also if they are designing image
<jcater> I'm ok w/whatever
<jamest> we need to make sure we can get it digitally for our site
<jcater> I'd prefer polo as well
<jcater> (I might actually wear it then)
<jcater> :)
<jamest> same here :)
Action: chillywilly has an extensive t-shit colection
<chillywilly> are
<chillywilly> er
<chillywilly> t-shirt
<Mr_You> the idea is its not about the shirt, but that you are donating to a project.. ;-)  but anyways.. what else could we give away
<chillywilly> thats a funny typo
<chillywilly> :P
<nickr> hats
<nickr> socks
<nickr> arm bands
<Mr_You> condoms
<nickr> ties
<Mr_You> heh
<jcater> let's give away chillywilly
<nickr> everything gnue must go
<chillywilly> no one wants me though
<nickr> I could use a houseboy
<Mr_You> hey
<nickr> I'm tired of doing dishes
<chillywilly> you can't even give me away
<Mr_You> how about we give away something on a CD
<chillywilly> nickr: but then you'd have to feed me
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<nickr> chillywilly: we have pleanty of table scraps
<Mr_You> t-shirt, CD, printer documentation
Action: chillywilly also comes with a nice lady and a little 4 year old too
<nickr> chillywilly: and you coud dance on the street corner for quarter
<Mr_You> s/r/d
<Mr_You> oops
<derek> well i plan on making CDs
<derek> if we do online sales that 20 will get you a tshirt and the CD :)
<chillywilly> woohoo
<nickr> that seems more reasonable
<derek> anyhow if you all want to think of what might be cool designs
<derek> i like the idea on tshirt for
<derek> GNUe logo on front (small pocket area)
<derek> and on back
<nickr> the savannah gnu with a suit and breifcase would be good
<derek> gnu (like floating gnu) on back
<derek> either standing in suit with briefcase
<derek> or sitting at desk in suit
<jcater> that would be cool if done well
<derek> but
<Mr_You> if its a large plastic-like logo material it sucks in the summer..
<derek> what would it say?
<derek> can put text on bottom
<derek> or on top
<derek> or both
<derek> or no text
<jcater> GNUe Coders ... do it grid style
<nickr> GNUe doesn't smell like ass
<derek> i think a clever slogan or saying would make it more 'hot'
<jcater> GNU Grows Up?
<Mr_You> I have a bud who is awesome at drawing scenes.. if we want a scene drawn up for free.. might need to have it scanned in and touched up
<chillywilly> GNUe - The GNU's are Going Corporate
<derek> chillywilly: stallman woudl kill us :)
<jcater> Free Enterprise
<nickr> jcater: score
<chillywilly> jcater: that's not too bad
<chillywilly> derek: kidding
<derek> so just free enterprise?
<derek> or
<derek> Free Enterprise
<derek> GNU Enterprise
<nickr> GNUe at the top and FREE ENTERPRISE at the bottom
<Mr_You> Free The Enterprise
<chillywilly> Mr_You: I like thst better
<jcater> GNUe Gives New Meaning to Free Enterprise
<chillywilly> that's [retty good
<jcater> actually, that'd be a good press release opener :)
<Mr_You> GNUe: Free Your Enterprise
<chillywilly> Mr_You: we have a winner
<nickr> ding
Action: chillywilly smells a new poll
<derek> w/ a gnu in a suit
<derek> i like
<Mr_You> yeah new poll
<chillywilly> let the ppl vote
<derek> "All dressed up and GNU where to go."
<Mr_You> how about: "GNUe Man!"  "Here to FREE THE ENTERPRISE!"
<jcater> "National 'Take your GNU to Work Day"
<derek> Mr_You: that will be in the second running
<derek> jcater: i like that
<derek> i REALLY like that
<chillywilly> yea, that GNU guy is our GNUe man right?
<chillywilly> oooh
<derek> what is that slogan?
<Mr_You> derek: I picture a guy with a suit on holding a briefcase with his shirt torn open with a GNUe logo 
<derek> milk its not just for breakfast?
<chillywilly> he could have his shirt open and the wind blowing hand a little gnu logo on his t-shirt
<derek> GNU isnt not just for hackers?
<chillywilly> under his button shirt
<chillywilly> you dig?
<derek> chillywilly: :)
<Mr_You> I could have a bud draw that up hehe
<chillywilly> like clrk kent to super man
<Mr_You> exactly
<nickr> yea
<derek> not for this run, i do like it for another one
<nickr> that is a cool idea
<Mr_You> GNUe Man is our mascot ;-)
<Mr_You> haha
<jcater> GNU... Not just for your teen's PC
<chillywilly> yea!
<Mr_You> GNUe/Man
<derek> you all didnt like the "GNUe's not just for hackers"?
<derek> or
<derek> GNU Enterprise
<derek> "It's whats for business"
<chillywilly> well i blame it all on neilt he started the GNUe man craze
<chillywilly> :P
<derek> oh
<derek> GNU Enterprise
<chillywilly> nice
<derek> "It's GNU for Business"
<chillywilly> oooh, I likes that
<chillywilly> umm
<chillywilly> good thing we have logs
<Mr_You> chilly: I mentioned GNUe/Man ;-:-P
<chillywilly> oh did you
<chillywilly> sorry
<chillywilly> I just know that neilt was using it in his article
<chillywilly> ok, then
<chillywilly> it's Mr_You's fault
<Mr_You> oh cool
<Mr_You> do we alienate ourselves by using GNU for new?
<jamest> lol, not to change the subject
<jamest> but gnuef now supports pygresql, psycopg, popy, and pypgsql drivers
<Mr_You> nah, I like "GNU for Business"
<Mr_You> cool
<chillywilly> hehe
<derek> i like its triple meaning
<derek> a. spin of 'beef its what for dinner'
<chillywilly> jamest: you're not biased or anything are you?
<derek> b. spin on word GNU -> Its New For Business
<jamest> chillywilly: I'm chasing bugs
<derek> c. real meaning of GNU Business software
<derek> but i want something that will move off the shelves
<jamest> and it takes about 2.5 minutes to write a gnuef driver that is available to python db api 2.0 spec
<derek> jamest: you are bound and determined to make sure no one can say they didnt use postgres cause xxx wasnt supported huh :)
<jcater> we need the floating gnu in a tux playing a flute w/a python coiling out of a woven basket...
<derek> jamest: so where are my interbase and informix drivers?
<jcater> "GNUe... What else would you use Python For?"
<jamest> derek : can you test them?
<derek> rofl
<derek> thats next go around :)
<jcater> derek: if you can get us the db's we can get you the drivers
<derek> jamest: i can probably test interbase for you
<derek> interbase against windows
<jamest> derek: today?
<derek> actually interbase is free for linux
<derek> jamest: not today
<derek> im at home today
<derek> at work we have some interbase somewhere
<derek> also if you make a mssql driver (gag)
<Mr_You> I like "GNUe its whats for Business"
<derek> i can magically find a way to test it
<derek> same with a msaccess (triple gag) driver
Action: Mr_You &
<chillywilly> I think a lot of those slogans were good, but that lat one is nice too
<chillywilly> last
<jamest> gnuebot: The fusion of technology and livestock to propel your business into the 26th century
<jamest> ?
<chillywilly> derek: I am seriously gonna do the gnl script ;)
<nickr> wow, 26th century
<jamest> gnuebot???? i type GNUe: and get gnuebot:
<chillywilly> gnl == gnu's not linux 
<jamest> nickr: damn straight
<jamest> saying the 21st century is only good for 100years
<nickr> I don't like the unnatural use of goats in 26th century technology
<jamest> and there's no way we'll be done by then
<derek> ok new poll up
<derek> would you buy a tshirt to support gnue?
<derek> yes
<derek> no
<derek> maybe
<derek> if there is any kind of response here we may act :)
<nickr> maybe I should sell tshirts
<derek> and can go to the poll for logos
<nickr> 'would you buy a tshirt to support nickr?'
<derek> rofl
<jamest> No lies...it's for beer
<derek> rofl
<chillywilly> jamest: :)
<derek> jamest: was i with you when that guy had that sign?
<chillywilly> the GNUe Beer Fund
<derek> iirc there was a guy on the pier
<derek> that had a sign
<chillywilly> er
<chillywilly> the GNUe Beer Foundation
<derek> "No Lies Its For Beer" - with a hat out in front
<chillywilly> heheh
<jamest> yes
<nickr> No lies, its for rent and food
<derek>  /dcc nickr 2 quarters, 1 dime
<derek> nickr: you are in NY right?
<nickr> Hmm, how appropriate would gnue be fore a medical database?
<nickr> Yea
<jcater> nickr: depends
<nickr> mental health database
<derek> nickr: pretty appropriate depending on what kind of mdical db
<jcater> how reliable does a medical database REALLY need to ne
<derek> jcater: rofl
<nickr> Hahaha
<nickr> If patients are lost, it only saves money
<derek> jcater: he was thinking drug dispensing application to highly agitated criminals in memphis area
<derek> mental health units
<chillywilly> galeon is going to compile right?
<nickr> Well a customer wants something like openmdb or whatever
<nickr> I wish I could remember the actual product name
<chillywilly> nickr: this is a consulting gig?
<nickr> Yea
<derek> i think it would be good fit personally
<derek> if its patient data type stuff
<nickr> yea
<nickr> the forms thing is also very important
<derek> if its biochem type application to do drug studies etc probably not really good fit
<nickr> No, this is a organization that supports DD people
<nickr> like training, living space etc
<derek> yeah i think its a really good fit then
<nickr> but they need exhaustive information about all the clients
<derek> we have oracle support
<derek> if they want real exhaustive data storage requirements :)
<nickr> Heh.
<nickr> Well theres this mental htealth clinic here that developed their own db for this sort of thing and released it gpl
<nickr> but I'm thinking gnue might be a better fit, more flexible in the long run.
<nickr> Just how much python do I have to know to impliment business objects and forms and crap?
<chillywilly> read the tutorial
<chillywilly> I think our methods are busted right now
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<nickr> well I been through the db on a query with no name
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<nickr> wheres the tutorial?
<jamest> it felt good to get out of the rain?
<chillywilly> http://www.python.org
<chillywilly> off of that page
<nickr> Uh,
<nickr> thats the python tutorial
<chillywilly> no, there's a link off of that page
<chillywilly> I am sure you can find it
<nickr> Hmm.
<chillywilly> you find it?
<chillywilly> I was reading it again the other day
<nickr> No, I was reading the intro thing.
<jamest> argh!!!!!!!!!!
<jamest> when is a spec not a spec
<nickr> when its a dott
<jamest> man
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<chillywilly> what is a .vob file?
<chillywilly> anyone know?
<derek> thats old mainframe archive format (short for 'very old bastard'
<chillywilly> this is in the video section for the FSF
<chillywilly> video about some award they got
<derek> actually i think its mpeg2
<chillywilly> http://audio-video.gnu.org/video/
<chillywilly> is mpeg2 patent free or something?
<nickr> does gnue have any sort of authentication or whatever?
<chillywilly> bah, very cheesy authentication
<chillywilly> we have no real security right now
<chillywilly> 2-tiers forms auth's against the db
<chillywilly> GEAS has this password thingy which isn't really secure
<jcater> nickr: our current security is called a "circle of trust"
<chillywilly> lol
<nickr> haha
<derek> jcater: rofl
<derek> can we put that in the marketing?
<chillywilly> why don't you whip up a security server that does RBAC for us ;)?
<nickr> rbac?
<chillywilly> http://csrc.nist.gov/rbac/
<derek> Really Brutal Ass Crunches
<chillywilly> roll based access control
<chillywilly> derek: rofl
<chillywilly> s/roll/role
<jcater> yes... you have to do rolls to get in
<derek> jcater: rofl
Action: derek wondered why earlier adopters were sending gift certificate for free rolls to info@gnue.org
<chillywilly> btw, is it possible to have a  secure connection with the forms client?
<nickr> how difficult would that be to develop?
<chillywilly> via SSL or whatever
<derek> jamest was supposed to test that today
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<derek> jamest?
<derek> beuller, beuller, beuller
<chillywilly> boooyah
<chillywilly> here thread, thread, thread
Action: chillywilly is doing some threads and they are getting out of hand
<chillywilly> woops
<chillywilly> race condition
<chillywilly> yipee
Action: chillywilly whips out a mutex
<jamest> That's a king crock right thar
<chillywilly> hey reinhard geas is gonna be multu-threaded right ;)
<chillywilly> multi even
<jamest> i was to test that?
<jamest> whoops
<chillywilly> so how is it supposed to work
<chillywilly> ?
<chillywilly> forms secure conneciton that is
<chillywilly> a forms ...
<jamest> postgresql supports ssl connections now
<chillywilly> k
<jamest> at least that's my understanding
<chillywilly> how do you make it do that?
<chillywilly> gfclient --fucking-secure
<derek> :)
<derek> jamest: i was saying needed that vpn you said or ssl
<derek> to ask you tomorrow
Action: derek thinks you were still mucking with popy (based on the why does popy need libssl comment earlier in the day)
Action: derek assumed that meant today and work you were going to test it
<derek> chillywilly: no that would be gfclient --with-condom (to get secure fucking)
<chillywilly> aaaah
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> when you install forms on winblows does it make a nice icon for the lusers?
<derek> anyone know of bruce m. from greatbridge (and postgres stud) has gone elsewhere yet?
<derek> chillywilly: no
<chillywilly> darn
<derek> thats what BoFH are for
<chillywilly> yea, but if you got ppl downloading and installing off the net then they might not be smart enough to know how to invoke it
<chillywilly> say a "participant" of the MSOE TRIO Programs sitting in their dorm or whatever
<chillywilly> they might not be apt enough to know how to use it
<chillywilly> is there anything you guys do to make it idioit proof, or do they need to invoke it fomr the dos command line?
<chillywilly> from
<jamest> dos command line right now
<chillywilly> I suppose they get no entry in their start menu either
<chillywilly> is it possible to make them a nice luser icon?
<chillywilly> that execs gfclient form.gcd
<neilt> i have postgresql installed with ssl support but have no idea how to make it work ;(
<chillywilly> hmmm, I do have a winblows box right in forn tof me here
<chillywilly> (not mine)
<chillywilly> maybe I should get forms running on here for the heck of it
<reinhard> neilt: i have to excuse
<reinhard> i will probably not keep my promise
<reinhard> wrt testing of methods this evening
<neilt> reinhard: no problem, what are you doing still awake
<reinhard> i have been fighting a phantom for about 6 hours now
<reinhard> at real work :(
<chillywilly> "phantom"?
<chillywilly> are the goat getting you reinhard?
<chillywilly> goats
<reinhard> seems like that
<reinhard> what would you say if you had a nice win machine connected to a netware server
<reinhard> you have a file on a netware volume
<reinhard> it is all right and ok
<reinhard> you copy it from x_umsa to y_umsa on the same volume
<chillywilly> never
<chillywilly> j/k
<chillywilly> this is interesting
<chillywilly> "Role-Based Access Control for the Web" (Barkley, Kuhn, Rosenthal, Skall, Cincotta, 1998),
<reinhard> and voila y_umsa is corrupted
<reinhard> and you double check
<reinhard> and voila x_umsa is corrupted too
<reinhard> but in another way
<reinhard> so after i copy a file
<reinhard> the copy and the original are different
<chillywilly> I would say netware sucks
<reinhard> and neither of them is like the original was before the copy
<chillywilly> :P
<neilt> reinhard: think i would puke and then go get a bottle of scotch
<reinhard> neilt: good idea :)
<neilt> but then again thats backwards isn't it
<chillywilly> dirnk scotch until you puke
<chillywilly> drink
<reinhard> think i'll go get me some scotch and some sleep
<reinhard> in that order :)
<reinhard> nite all
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<neilt> :)
<jamest> remember kiddies WinXX gives you lower TCO than anything else on the planet**
<jamest> **-If you overlook the total chaos and lost productivity our E-Mail worm of the month causes
<chillywilly> http://www.seul.org/edu/report53.html
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-09-18-002-20-NW-CY-0001
<nickr> hmm, what kind of server vould you need for GEAS?
<jamest> l8r
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<neilt> nickr: any linux or mac os x system
<nickr> Well, I mean what sort of hardware
Action: chillywilly invokes the gnl script on neilt
<neilt> ok will then any hardware that supports linux or mac os X then
<chillywilly> nickr: it doesn't have to be a big ass monster unless you really need something like that
<neilt> guess i dont really understand the question
<nickr> Well
<derek> nickr: p266mhz 128mb RAM
<derek> 1gig HD
<derek> woudl probably be a minimum
<nickr> Say I have 50 users and there are a lot of forms and objects and such
<jcater> bbl
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<derek> if you had a larger processor something in pIII line you could probably cut that RAM in half
<derek> mind you this is GEAS
<nickr> okay
<nickr> the real need is in the SQL side?
<derek> there might be different requirments if you wish to run X
<derek> or if you put geas on same machine as your SQL server
<nickr> I was thinking that they'd be separate
<derek> so in a nutshell your db server or X requirement woudl be greater than GEAS :)
<nickr> geas is where all the triggers and business object type stuff and whatever happens though, right?
<derek> nickr: yip
<derek> and it can be on its own server
<chillywilly> how useful is #debian?
<nickr> chillywilly: very bad
<derek> if on own server disk size doesnt become too important as you have to only worry about base OS/GEAS/ and forms/gcds/methods
<chillywilly> is getting an answr in #debian like pulling teeth?
Action: chillywilly should found #debian-support
<nickr> Hmm
<derek> which are flat files that dont take up much space
<derek> put it this way
<derek> i have a P90mhz 80mb RAM
<derek> that is my gateway
<derek> webserver
<derek> and has mysql and postgres installed i think
<derek> i was using it to test geas for a while
<derek> other than a 10 minute make/make install
<derek> it seemed to respond ok
<derek> granted i wasnt pushing tons of data and was single user
<derek> but most middleware wouldnt even say hello on a machine that size (windoze middleware that is)
<nickr> So hows this, a celeron 500/128mb for GAES et al, a celeron 500/128mb for postgres
<derek> i think you would do fine with that
<nickr> this is for a moderately small org
<derek> especially for only 50 users
<nickr> but the workflow is complex
<nickr> lots of data associated with each 'client'
<chillywilly> how well do we handle multiple users?
<derek> btw: geas has lots of room for performance improvement
<nickr> er, patient
<derek> but i think as we start to tune it
<derek> we will make it infinitely faster w/o making machine requirements great
<nickr> you guys would be interested in having the templates for this sort of org, no?
<derek> and the places where its slow, i assume throwing more hardware would make it faster but not exponentially
<derek> yes 
<chillywilly> ash should be running GEAS...
<chillywilly> maybe not
<chillywilly> would be nice to have something to beat on
<derek> chillywilly: it was at one time (iirc)
<derek> or goats was
<derek> if its not it needs to be
<chillywilly> goats would probably be better
<derek> chillywilly: you could always beat on your ....
<derek> goat
<derek> yeah thats it
<neilt> a month ago, ash ran geas
<chillywilly> ash is the web server right?
<derek> neilt: this will be a stupid question
<derek> but did jamest fix it so you can automate docs?
<derek> to the docs section of the website?
<derek> hi shapr
<derek> neilt: any word on that article?
<derek> did we meet our deadline?
<derek> do we have a deadline?
<derek> ;)
<derek> btw: is the powerpoint still in your home dir?
<derek> i might convert it to staroffice (me rather likes staroffice now), but it is slow
<chillywilly> who has root access to goats?
<neilt> no word yet
<neilt> yes
<neilt> in home dir
<neilt> chillywilly: jade
<chillywilly> ah
<chillywilly> man it is too hot in here
<derek> how do you install fonts on linux?
<chillywilly> I am gonna go into the other room....laptops rule
<chillywilly> cya l8r
<derek> hey
<derek> font boy
<derek> how do you install new fonts in linux?
<derek> er gnu/linux
<chillywilly> apt-get install package-name :P
<derek> bah
<chillywilly> apt-get install xfonts-* where * is the completion of many packages
<chillywilly> there's a bunch of them 
<chillywilly> even transcoded ones
<chillywilly> gsfonts are nice too
<chillywilly> I am running all 3 font servers
<chillywilly> dunno why though
<chillywilly> I should pick one and remove the others
<chillywilly> xfs, xfs-xtt, and xfstt
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<neilt> fyi
<neilt> every business rule gets executed once when it is loaded
<neilt> and then again when you call it
<neilt> just to make sure
<neilt> isn't that just peachy
<jamest> lol
<jamest> you wouldn't have added them if you need want them to be run right?
<neilt> right
<derek> jamest: fix neilt up w/ docs
<jamest> huh?
<neilt> yes he did, just no time
<jamest> huh?!?
Action: jamest is the only crappy speller allowed arround here!
<jamest> from the website
<jamest> Would You By A T-Shirt To Support GNUe?
<neilt> ;)
<derek> roflmao
<derek> and no way to edit the damn thing
<derek> argh
<derek> can you edit w/sql
<derek> on that
<jamest> sure you can
<jamest> via mysql
<derek> rock on
<derek> ttf working now :)
<derek> yee haw
<derek> too bad i REALLY need to wipe this system and move to debian
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<uday> chillywilly: there seems to be a problem with method invocations, is the code still under development?
<neilt> uday: yes it is
<neilt> are you using cvs or distro
<uday> cvs
<uday> neilt: I got it yesterday
<neilt> methods dont work
<neilt> but it will most likely be the weekend before i check in the corrections
<neilt> the problem is that methods were never finished
<neilt> not that they are broke because of something we did
<uday> neilt: I had just written a small business object and was trying out method invocation
<uday> neilt: I have another doubt - what kind of work flow management are you looking at present to include in the server?
<neilt> derek is the best one to talk about on that one
<neilt> we were going to use someones workflow product
<neilt> but i dont know whos
<neilt> i trie to express that i thought workflow
<neilt> was almost the most important part of the server
<neilt> and should be integrted from day one
<neilt> but did not get any support 
<neilt> for that
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<derek> uday: you still here?
<derek> as for workflow managment there are really two issues
<derek> on is business process flow (which is part of workflow)
<uday> derek: yeah
<derek> for that we were looking at XVCL as a wrapper to our UI
<derek> to have menus and such based on business processes
<derek> and set security in such a way as well
<derek> the second part of workflow is notification
<derek> and approval
<derek> for that a brazilian university is working on getting a grant
<derek> to fund research and development of such a workflow to integrate into GNUe
<derek> they are currently on strike (earlier i said civil war and was mistaken)
<derek> so it has taken them longer than expected to get things in place, but i heard from them to day
<derek> if they do not get something, we will put something together or find something to do it
<derek> like all componenents should work together or apart which means we should support anything that currently exists
<derek> wftk (work flow tool kit) comes to mind
<derek> uday: so in a nut shell we arent actively working on it in our group
<derek> but we arent completely ignoring it either :)
<derek> i believe i subscribed you to the supply_chain list
<derek> i apologize i didnt know you were waiting for more info from me (re: todays logs)
<derek> what do you need to get started :)
<derek> a. do you plan to use gnue only as a user
<derek> b. do you plan to develop only applications
<derek> c. do you plan on helping with the tools/infrastructure
<derek> ?
<derek> or did i scare you away?
<neilt> how do i concatenate string in python
<neilt> ?
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<derek> uday@gdit.iiit.net <-- is this proper address for you uday (its what i have on the supply_chain list)
<derek> hi amen-ra
<derek> um carefully
<uday> derek: yes
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<derek> Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
<derek> >>> foo = "my" + "foo"
<derek> >>> print foo
<derek> myfoo
<derek> >>> 
<derek> is one way
<neilt> thanks
<uday> derek: I would like to work on the development of a base package
<derek> uday: great
<derek> we require assignment of copyright to free software foundation
<derek> for tool/architecture work or gnue 'official' packages
<derek> would you like me to send you the paper work?
<derek> short of that, i think neilt is the guy you really want to talk to, he is the team lead for the base package
<derek> neilt: meet uday, uday meet neilt ;)
<neilt> hold on, i think i have methods working
<derek> holy smokes, we have a few 'dbs supported' in 2 tier now
<neilt> dont get me started :)
<uday> derek: yes, (paper work)
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<derek> on its way
<uday> derek: TY
<neilt> uday: its possible that python methods work with cvs as of 1 minute ago
<neilt> its also possible that i broke everything
<uday> neilt: I will try it in a moment
<neilt> i am about done for the evening
<neilt> do you have any questions
<neilt> uday:
<neilt> before i go
<uday> neilt: no
<neilt> i dont think the test example that are in cvs work
<neilt> have not checked them
<neilt> but the example that i checked in does work at least for me
<derek> neilt: works for me principle is ok round here :)
<derek> see def of stable in gnue glossary
<derek> stable: works for developer who wrote code
<derek> ;)
<neilt> cool
<neilt> so i can leave all that cross platform crap for reinhard
<neilt> :)
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<neilt> uday: do you get cvs checkin emails
<neilt> if you do mine has a description of how to test methods
<neilt> if not see the archives
<neilt> later all
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<Mr_You> damn found a prob with the way I was writing the bofhd
<Mr_You> only the ps command will give me what I want into perl
<Mr_You> oh well
<Mr_You> way it goes
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Action: derek hates gnome now a days
<derek> running 6.2 and everything i touch has dependency hell
<derek> the answer upgrade to 7.2
<derek> and im like what is this m$?
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<jamest> wazzup
<jcater> yo
<jamest> so you got those dbs installed
<jcater> I just got back from pool
<jamest> lol
<jcater> but I've done most of the drivers
<jamest> i hope you pulled them from anything other than postgresql
<jcater> complicated part was figuring out the differences in connect()
<jcater> as some expect password, some expect passwd
<jcater> of course
<jcater> and some don't even have a passwd???
<jcater> :)
<jamest> cool
<jamest> that was my concern
<jamest> and wait till you run them :)
<jamest> i had to make changes in _dbsig to deal w/ the different pgsql database drivers
<jcater> oh
<jcater> ??
<jcater> have you committed anything since I've been gone?
<jamest> nothing driver specific
<jamest> no
<jcater> good
<jcater> b/c _dbsig is not driver specific :)
<jamest> i know that
<jamest> but it was expecting things from postgresql that were not quite right
<jamest> 2 DB API 2.0 driver writers read the spec, each read it differently
<jamest> I'm dying to see if the alterations work with all the other drivers
<jcater> jamest: I know you know that... I was teasing
<jcater> I am curious too
<jcater> oracle was working AFAIK
<jcater> although I did find a new Oracle driver besides Digital Creation's
<jcater> which is cool
<jcater> It includes prebuilt win32 interfaces
<jamest> cool
<jamest> i think the more variations of existing drivers we support
<jcater> boy, the documentation among the module REALLY varies
<jamest> the more robust _dbsig will become
<jcater> some don't even include docs or example py code
<jcater> some I had to figure out from C code
<jcater> as long as they adhere somewhat to DB-SIG2 then my main concern was with the connect() variations
<jamest> lol, i had to guess on some of the pgsql ones
<jamest> it was faster than digging into the code
<jamest> :)
<jcater> lol
<jamest> which mwdatetime is required?
<jamest> wxdatetime
<chillywilly> do you need 2.0 packages for all the other stuff too or what?
<jamest> i think so
<chillywilly> k
Action: derek dreads now getting 2.0 installed based on my recent luck
<derek> spent better part of 3 days 'upgrading' things
Action: jamest makes note.....migrate to 2.1.1 in 4 days
<jcater> egenix-mx-*-2*
<jcater> something like that
<jcater> egenix-mx-base-2.0.2
<derek> stupid people shouldnt be allowed to make rpms :)
<jcater> is what I installed this week
<derek> fsck it i give up sources bitch about more gnome dependencies
<derek> this is just sick
<jamest> did you get my rpm command?
<derek> yeah
<derek> but sources arent compiling
<derek> i grabbed tarball instead
<jcater> we don't really need to know what you've been grabbing
<jamest> rofl
<chillywilly> he he heee!
<mdean> especially @ goats.gnue.org!
<chillywilly> grabs crotch michael jackson style
<jcater> anyone here use sybase?
<derek> gnome-vfs-mime-monitor.h:28: gtk/gtkobject.h: No such file or directory
<derek> make[2]: *** [gnome-vfs-application-registry.lo] Error 1
<derek> make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/dneighbo/downloads/rpms/gnome-vfs-1.0.1/libgnomevfs'
<derek> make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
<derek> anyone know how to fix this?
<jcater> anyone here use sybase?
<mdean> I have 11.9.2 installed
<jcater> derek: use kde
<derek> jcater: doesnt solve the problems
<jamest> jcater: no, i dont
<derek> i would have to stop using gnome applicatoins all together
<jcater> mdean: I am not familiar w/it, but when connecting, it asks for dsn?
<derek> i have used sybase adaptive server in the past
<jcater> you know what dsn stands for?
<derek> Data Source Name
<mdean> ja
<derek> fwiw: sybase 11.x and MSSQL 6.6 (iirc) were pretty much same product :)
<derek> er 6.5
<jcater> ok
<chillywilly> derek: you have gtk devel packages?
<jcater> um
<derek> chillywilly: who knows
<mdean> MSSQL 6 and up are M$ only
<jcater> what does data source name have to do with loggin in?
<chillywilly> derek: ya freak
<derek> chillywilly: but why didnt configure TELL ME THAT I DIDNT HAVE THEM?
<derek> oh thats right cause gnome developers lick my left nut
<mdean> DSN contains your database connection information - I think it has to be in the Sybase interfaces file
<chillywilly> dunno, that happens all the time though
<jcater> ok
<chillywilly> derek: you're a sick sick man
<jamest> am I the only person that has had to manually find and copy .h files from the mxDateTime package to the lib dir
<chillywilly> goats and now gnome nut lickers
<jcater> that answers my question :)
<jcater> kind of like an Oracle TNS name
<mdean> exactly
<derek> gtk+-devel-1.2.10-ximian.9
<derek> rep-gtk-gnome-0.15-ximian.4
<derek> is gtk+-devel not same thing?
<chillywilly> ja
<chillywilly> it be the same
<derek> well then i have it
<chillywilly> what is the -I flags and do they point at the gtk headers
<derek> go fish
<derek> beats me
<derek> im sick of dealing with it
<chillywilly> i.e., if /usr/include/gtk/*, then you need -I/usr/include
<chillywilly> just install debian
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> that's gonna be my default answer
<chillywilly> for everything
<chillywilly> I should write a script for that
<chillywilly> anytime it sees rpm or redhat
<chillywilly> it goes, " nick: Just Install Debian"
<chillywilly> jid
<chillywilly> jid.py
<derek> btw this is broken in debian so woudl be no better off
<chillywilly> man ppl would really love me having that and the gnu/linux script 
<chillywilly> well, I still blame it on you
<chillywilly> you got ximian packags soooo....I blame them too
<chillywilly> there's no ximian packages here
<chillywilly> derek: you noticed they totally removd all references to Free Software form their web site when they redid it?
<chillywilly> I like havoc pennington and george lebel those guys don't lick nuts
<chillywilly> they're good guys
<chillywilly> Michael Meeks isn't too bad even if he is a Ximian monkey
<chillywilly> Rodney Dawes is a littel jerk though
<derek> i was teasing about nut lickers
<derek> really ticked off its this difficult
<derek> ximian might save me here if im lucky
<chillywilly> I know you were teasing
<derek> what i find really funny is i saw evolution thread
<derek> that said something to effect of
<derek> we wont support rh7.2 cause its not 'official'
Action: chillywilly braces himself
<derek> i hear rh7.0 no support cause its gcc evil
<derek> then i keep hearing rh6.2 is older than dog crap must upgrade to rh7.1
<derek> hmmm such lovely choices. :)
<derek> now i know how jamest feels on solaris
<derek> i.e. works on gnu/linux
<derek> single distro, single release, on the third and fourth mondays of odd months :)
<derek> put in context
<derek> we get suport for IBM DB2 5.0 at work
<derek> tehy are going 8.x something now
<derek> i.e. we are at least 10 revisions back
<derek> and just this last month they said 5.0 will only be supported for another 6 months you need to upgrade to at least like 5.5
<derek> ;)
<derek> btw: i think db2 5.0 could be well over 7 years old
<chillywilly> ack
<chillywilly> major suckage
<jamest> jesus
<jamest> mxDateTime is a nightmare
<chillywilly> hey
<chillywilly> jesus didn't do it
<chillywilly> whew
<chillywilly> it is hot in here!
Action: chillywilly goes looking for the fan
<chillywilly> derek: you ever try qtella, it should be a good replacement for limewire
<chillywilly> requires QT though
<chillywilly> blech
<jamest> lol
<chillywilly> ah well
<derek> i dont have qt
<jamest> people are going to die when qt is as free or freer that ximian GTK
<derek> rofl
<derek> qt is actually MORE free
<derek> iirc
<derek> gtk is LGPL
<derek> qt is GPL
<jcater> subversions is so moody
<jcater> ah, now it responds
Action: derek gives jcater some midol for his subversion
<jcater> mmm.. thanks
Action: jamest stares at monitor in disbelief
<jamest> is that a gnuef window!?!?!?
<jcater> mwahahah... I just committed a bunch of stuff, so enjoy a working gnuef while you can
<chillywilly> I just think qt is fugly
<derek> can someone go to
<derek> ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/ximian/ximian-gnome/redhat-62-i386
<chillywilly> it has been a matter of taste
<derek> and get me the gnome-vfs package?
<derek> its like on perma slow download for me
<derek> and email it to me?
<jamest> derek: use ash
<chillywilly> Gnome is not as Free anymore and Ximian is turning out to be a little bitch of a company
<jamest> wget ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/ximian/ximian-gnome/redhat-62-i386
<derek> nevermind i think its perking up again
<jamest> mmmmmmm drivers
<derek> holy moses i think ximian was actually able to FIX instead of CAUSE a problem for me
<chillywilly> GNUStep could be something cool if worse comes to worse
<chillywilly> I don't think that'll happen
<jcater> between the two of us, that's 8 new drivers today :)
<jamest> now if only they'd work
<jcater> gasp! did we have a productive day?
<jamest> :)
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Action: jamest is working on geas driver too
<jamest> so that'll make 8.1
Action: jamest knows he wont finish it :)
<jcater> lol
<jcater> but, jamest, we can't have you finishing a driver before the actual program is written :)
Action: jcater hides
<jamest> lol
<chillywilly> gah xchat-gnome is hosed wiht th enewest libgnomeui
<chillywilly> ah well
<chillywilly> downgrade is soo nice
<jamest> downgrade works now?
<jcater> omg, did chillywilly use the word "downgrade"
Action: jcater rubs his eyes
<jamest> downgrade == cvs current - 10 minutes
<chillywilly> jamest: you dun remember me showing you that?
<jamest> nope
<chillywilly> apt-get can downgrade now is you have testing and sid lines
<chillywilly> apt-get install packages/distro
<jamest> oh yeah
<jamest> i recall that
<jcater> jamest: btw, all my new code also breaks 1.5.2 support :)
<chillywilly> woohoo
<jamest> cool
<jcater> so you don't stand alone :)
<jcater> (although, if confronted, I'll say you did it :)
<jcater> daw! this is logged isn't it
<jamest> :)
<jcater> rock on! KDE 2.2.1 is out
<chillywilly>  learns the ways of /msg you must
<chillywilly> strong are thr goats with you
Action: chillywilly hisses
<jamest> if only woody would go above 2.1
<chillywilly> use the source my son
<chillywilly> face it you must
<jamest> that doesn't work too well across 40+ machines all with local installs
<jamest> i could rsync it
<jamest> but I'm tired of that game
<jamest> apt-get dist-upgrade is easier
<jamest> :)
<chillywilly> go for it
Action: chillywilly knows that ajmitchie has cron update and compile kde for him every night
<jcater> that's why I love my LTSP setup
<jcater> a single upgrade and 40 ppl are upgraded
<jamest> btw - geas is safe to run as root right?
<jcater> :)
Action: jamest dives for cover
<chillywilly> he would do that with Gnome too, but it dun work
<jcater> s/to run as root//
Action: jcater dives w/jamest
<jcater> j/k
<jcater> I saw that python methods are starting to work
<jcater> that rocks!
<jamest> jcater I used to do nfs installs 
<chillywilly> safe as ummm...yes, it is BUgFree(tm) don't ya know
<jamest> but gave that up when 1.6 GB drives were cheep
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<jcater> it wasn't the cost of drives that made me do diskless
<chillywilly> ack, it lives once again
<jamest> support issues?
<jcater> yes
<jcater> it does have it's own set of issues of course
<jamest> xscreensaver :)
<jcater> disabled
<jcater> !
[22:45] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<jcater> that didn't take long
<chillywilly> every gets their own copy to run right?
<jamest> chillywilly: xscreensaver on an x-term is network hell
<chillywilly> it is a piggie?
<jcater> chillywilly: you can do local software, but it's actually better not to
<derek> wow some real pricks in galeon tonight
<jamest> with a fast server a single xscreensaver runs the bouncing lines can saturate a 10MB line easy
<chillywilly> hmmm
<derek> wish we could do teleport
<jcater> jamest: no kidding
<derek> someone would get a class a bitch slap about right now
<jcater> and gnome screensavers eat the hell out of memory for some reason
<jcater> derek: lol
<chillywilly> derek: what did they do?
<chillywilly> gconftool --shtudown
<chillywilly> make install
<chillywilly> masta
<chillywilly> er --shutdown
<chillywilly> you having gconf issues?
Action: chillywilly just compiled galeon earlier
<derek> gconf licks my left nut
<chillywilly> you rpm -i it?
<chillywilly> or compile it?
<chillywilly> I can help you
<chillywilly> I just wrestled with it
<chillywilly> I agree
<chillywilly> it blows
<chillywilly> they are gonna have a nice gui admin tools for it soon
<chillywilly> yipee!
<chillywilly> heheh
<derek> rpm -i it
<chillywilly> 0.12.1?
<derek> give me a minute i might be on to something
<derek> yes .12.1
<chillywilly> just do
<derek> .12.1 'satans son'
<chillywilly> gconftool --shutdown
<chillywilly> killall gconfd-1
<derek> ok did that
<derek> now what
<derek> oh yeah read the faq ;)
<chillywilly> blah
<chillywilly> faq says the same thing
<chillywilly> you should be able to start it
<chillywilly> and it should read the galeon settings
<chillywilly> and start up gconf
<chillywilly> oaf will start it up
<derek> neighbo@latitude:~/downloads/rpms$ galeon
<derek> ** WARNING **: GConf error:
<derek>   Configuration server couldn't be contacted:
<derek>  Adding client to server's list failed, CORBA error: IDL:CORBA/BAD_OPERATION:1.0
<derek> ** WARNING **: GConf Error: GConf error:
<derek>   Configuration server couldn't be contacted:
<derek>  Adding client to server's list failed, CORBA error: IDL:CORBA/BAD_OPERATION:1.0All further errors shown only on terminal
<derek> ** WARNING **: GConf error:
<derek>   Configuration server couldn't be contacted:
<derek>  Adding client to server's list failed, CORBA error: IDL:CORBA/BAD_OPERATION:1.0
<derek> ** WARNING **: GConf error:
<derek>   Configuration server couldn't be contacted:
<derek>  Adding client to server's list failed, CORBA error: IDL:CORBA/BAD_OPERATION:1.0GConf Error: Configuration server couldn't be contacted:
<chillywilly> blah
<derek>  Adding client to server's list failed, CORBA error: IDL:CORBA/BAD_OPERATION:1.0dneighbo@latitude:~/downloads/rpms$ 
<chillywilly> it can't start it
<derek> same old error
<chillywilly> gah
<derek> nice try
<derek>  echo $sysconfdir
<derek> what do you get when you type that?
<jamest> man
<chillywilly> it is not set
<chillywilly> it is usually /etc
<chillywilly> /etc/gconf
<chillywilly> that's not a likely error thoughas you don't even get it to start it's not a gconf issue
<derek> ok my not set either
<derek> was thinking that might the problem
<derek> looks like gconf is just busted for me
<derek> or something
<chillywilly> oaf can't start gconf
<chillywilly> gconfd
<derek> [root@latitude dneighbo]# gconfd-1 &
<derek> [1] 14705
<derek> [root@latitude dneighbo]# 
<derek> [root@latitude dneighbo]# ps -ax |grep gconf
<derek> 14685 ?        S      0:00 gconfd-1
<derek> 14705 pts/3    S      0:00 gconfd-1
<derek> gconf seems to start ok  from raw level
<derek> its a galeon thing :)
<chillywilly> prolly
<chillywilly> compile it from cvs
<chillywilly> :P
<derek> fsck that
<derek> just will go back to mozilla
<chillywilly> or bitch at them
<derek> after that dick head in #galeon dont have any gumption to really use thier product anymore
<chillywilly> you can't get that in the faq
<chillywilly> you don't even know if he's a developer
<chillywilly> not everyone there is
<derek> going on 3 hours to get this to work
<derek> feels like gnucash all over again
<chillywilly> wow
<chillywilly> try this
<chillywilly> oaf-slay
<jamest> derek: did I ever tell you about this great little browser called konqueror?
<chillywilly> plz konq has its problems too
Action: jamest dives, ducks, rolls, and sprints for cover
<chillywilly> I just thinknredhat is notorious fro a broken gnome
<derek> ok how can i do this
<derek> symlink
<derek> filea to fileb?
<derek> i always forget which comes first
<jamest> ln -s filea fileb
<chillywilly> -s source dstination
<chillywilly> er
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<chillywilly> -s realfile link
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<chillywilly> well I am going to bed
<chillywilly> night all
<jamest> nite
Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr
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Nick change: chillywilly -> cw-sleep
<derek> why am i even fighting this?
<jamest> you're masochistic
<cw-sleep> cause everyone wants to use gconf
<cw-sleep> instead of bonobo-conf
<cw-sleep> or something
<jamest> all you're friends are using it
<cw-sleep> heheh
<cw-sleep> something liek that
<jamest> you're = your
<cw-sleep> ok, I am really sleeping now
Action: cw-sleep hopes that maybe debian will be updated when he wakes up
<cw-sleep> 5hrs
<cw-sleep> *sigh*
<cw-sleep> kill me now
<cw-sleep> night
<derek> cw-sleep: i kicked its ass
<derek> i win
<jamest> yip, it only took 4 hours of pure hell
<jamest> you sure showed it a thing or two
<jamest> :)
<derek> jamest: rofl
<derek> there is so much truth in that humor i almost peed my pants
<derek> btw: i had an old eazel preview of natilus installed
<derek> it didnt use rpms
<derek> and included GConf (i think that was a natilus baby)
<derek> so it was firing 0.3 of gconf ;)
<derek> once i removed that little demon
<derek> it all fixed
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<jamest> nite
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--- Wed Sep 19 2001