nite jcater (jason@slip-12-64-102-138.mis.prserv.net) left irc: Client Exiting shapr (user@p-c2fbab2e.easy.inet.fi) left irc: Read error to shapr[p-c2fbab2e.easy.inet.fi]: EOF from client nickr_ (nick@sdsl-64-32-227-138.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@sdsl-64-32-227-138.dsl.nyc.megapath.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[sdsl-64-32-227-138.dsl.nyc.megapath.net] reinhard (rm@62.47.44.46) joined #gnuenterprise. ghunt_ (xavier@uu212-190-122-70.unknown.uunet.be) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all morning mornig morning how can i launch the app ? GNUe-Common for instance GNUe-Common isn't an app, it's a set of libaries basically gnuef is an app well strictly speaking gnuef is the front end for several apps how can i run it ? (when installed) from console ? iirc there is a command "gfclient" which takes the filename of the form definition (*.gfd) as a parameter you must run X to run gnuef currently, the curses (console) client doesn't work yet OK : seems to work but ... isn't there something that "centralise" the whole thing ? and hgow can i get geas run ? K found for geas :-) (RTFM) uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (sacha@chime-a-68.conceptual.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. hi guys. hi cw-sleep (danielb@d43.as9.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Ping timeout for cw-sleep[d43.as9.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net] cw-sleep (danielb@d43.as9.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Ping timeout for derek[cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net] derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) left irc: Client Exiting cw-sleep (danielb@d43.as9.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Ping timeout for cw-sleep[d43.as9.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net] cw-sleep (danielb@d92.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (sacha@chime-a-68.conceptual.net.au) left irc: Ping timeout for SachaS[chime-a-68.conceptual.net.au] uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) joined #gnuenterprise. uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) left irc: [x]chat Nick change: cw-sleep -> chillywilly Action: chillywilly yawns SachaS (sacha@chime-a-44.conceptual.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d92.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error to chillywilly[d92.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net]: EOF from client danielb (danielb@d92.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d92.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt (neilt@sdn-ar-004varestP287.dialsprint.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ bah, I am going bacl to bed cya in an hour or so chillywilly (danielb@d92.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error to chillywilly[d92.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net]: EOF from client hello all danielb (danielb@d92.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Ping timeout for danielb[d92.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net] hello neilt sacha_ (sacha@chime-a-149.conceptual.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (sacha@chime-a-44.conceptual.net.au) left irc: Ping timeout for SachaS[chime-a-44.conceptual.net.au] hello ghunt neilt: do i nead to create a db to get geas work ? or does it all for me ? ghunt_: you need to create a db and you need to tell geas.conf the name of the data base and the user the configuration for the db is at the end of the geas.conf file you dont need to create any tables thanks if you want data to play with i would also go into gnue/geas/tools and run t he python program parse_load_sql.py or something close to that it will parse all of the .geas files in gnue-config and startup psql and load the data into the tables you have to run geas once before you run the load program and you may run the load program while geas is running jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ morning jamest morning i saw you worked on geas driver i like your notes notes? its not done but here is some work or something to that effect on the cvs email ah :) tell me is the querytest file commented out example really the way to build queries for geas sacha_ (sacha@chime-a-149.conceptual.net.au) left irc: Client Exiting i don't recall it working like that i really dont know i have only done one query and that code is in schema.py and the query really sucked for performance ok Nick change: neilt -> neil-work neil-work (neilt@sdn-ar-004varestP287.dialsprint.net) left irc: Ping timeout for neil-work[sdn-ar-004varestP287.dialsprint.net] dres (dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Can someone tell me when during installation of geas the base tables ( in the database ) are created when geas-server is started it scans its gcd files and creates/updates tables as needed if you ./configure geas with --enable-debug apart from the gcd files etc there are some system tables like geas__user which are also created yes all at geas startup jamest: but when I start the server up I get this error saying that gnue.geas__user table does not exist uday: which version do you have ? the cvs downloaded about 5 hrs back on a previous installation I did not face such a problem then geas 0.0.6 ? yes and you didn't change your geas.conf file? I changed all the settings - database name, user, port ,socket, classdir, method dir uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) left irc: Ping timeout for uday[host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net] uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: I am also getting the following error when I start the geas-server : error: All parts of a PRIMARY KEY must be NOT NULL; If you need NULL in a key, use UNIQUE instead jamest: Is the problem because of some diffeent version of mysql-devel I am using? ew this is rapidily turning into a neilt or reinhard question uday: i don't have a clue on this one i'd be tempted to dump the tables in the database that start with geas__ and rerun it assuming you have no data in there you want to keep :) jamest: I think I will take that till I get a sol huh? I don't think reinhard is around guess not this is weird error as I was running geas less than 12 hours ago without issues jamest: I just found that this is not the case with the non-cvs version available for download from the website :( uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) left irc: [x]chat uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) joined #gnuenterprise. uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) left irc: Ping timeout for uday[host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net] uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: how can I get the cvs checkin emails? There is also a cvs commit list for the project. Subscribe to this list by sending the word "subscribe" in the body of an otherwise empty message to . Nick change: derek -> dnWork brb uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) left irc: Client Exiting ghunt_ (xavier@uu212-190-122-70.unknown.uunet.be) left irc: get back home uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. howdy [10:56] Last message repeated 1 time(s). chillywilly (danielb@d50.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. whohoo! Talking to you all from my new bsd file/db server :) uday/jamest: sorry i forgot to /nick rm-away :( i am here only for 30 seconds you will be here in 30 minutes? i will be back then reinhard: yup ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting Action: uday is away: I'm busy Action: uday is back (gone 00:00:12) Action: uday is away: I'm busy Action: uday is back (gone 00:00:02) Action: uday is away: I am coming Action: uday is away: I am going Action: uday is back (gone 00:00:08) uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) joined #gnuenterprise. uday: i am reading the logs now reinhard: Any idea why I was getting that wierd error? from what i read you get two errors neilt (neilt@sdn-ar-002varestP230.dialsprint.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ is that right? yes the one is about that primary keys must be NOT NULL? hello all hey neilt reinhard: yes I suppose those errors are generated when you create tables reinhard: did you see i got methods working uday: yes neilt: yes uday: :( neilt: :) i am traveling today and just stopped in to see if any questions only thing i could need at the moment was a 48 hour day finally get to attempt to leave washington dc via air neilt: i wish you luck uday: you use mysql or postgresql? reinhard: mysql ok this is probably a thing i broke there was a problem in geas with NOT NULL fields so i simply removed all NOT NULL commands in the table cration SQL i only tried it for postgres IIRC and postgres didn't moan about it later all neilt (neilt@sdn-ar-002varestP230.dialsprint.net) left irc: bbl tonight I think you are right, the server worked for the 0.0.6 release yeah reinhard: Is this the file to be modified - src/objectstore/mysql.c? i will think about a way to fix it no compare.c jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Read error to jcater[w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net]: Connection reset by peer dbchange_add_column (DBchange * change, const char *name, (this is the function) change the line c->notnull = FALSE /* notnull */; /* FIXME !!! */ to c->notnull = notnull; ok and then the other bug will reappear that it will be impossible to insert columns into a table that has more than one NOT NULL field bb in 15 min Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) left irc: Client Exiting chillywilly (danielb@d50.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Ping timeout for chillywilly[d50.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net] root (root@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hello all Nick change: root -> ToyMan whoa wrong move bye ToyMan (root@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: ircII EPIC4-1.0.1 -- Are we there yet? chillywilly (danielb@158.milwaukee-01-02rs16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: rm-away -> reinhard ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: bye ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) joined #gnuenterprise. uday (uday@host-64-110-96-159.interpacket.net) left irc: Client Exiting ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting jamest how is nimda doing at KSU it has shut down network here ALL day yesterday (from what i hear) hehe today they are scrambling to get patches on all machines and ppl buy this shitty software and its still spreading like nuts it is unblieveable at times reinhard (rm@62.47.44.46) left irc: Ping timeout for reinhard[62.47.44.46] huh no effect here that I'm aware of the campus blocked the exploits at the router from what i understand plus anything important should run on unix anyway :) ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Read error to ToyMan[c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net]: EOF from client stuq (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. stuq_ (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. stuq (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting stuq_ (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. http://news.linuxprogramming.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-09-19-001-06-LT this is so cool :) ya think so? not really but thought i would be polite Action: chillywilly hasn't looked at it yet ah heheh wooopdddeeeeedoooo Action: chillywilly does cart wheels C# is soooo stupid they don't wanna work with dotgnu either, they're such shit heads...oh and they have to use the M$ compiler to bootstrap theirs lemme dig up a message for ya bah reinhard (rm@62.47.44.46) joined #gnuenterprise. I can't find ti iit hi reinhard hey chillywilly i was just disconnected :) ugh Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: ToyMan is *highly* pleased with his new bsd fs :) dneighbo: a few more days and I'll be ready to rock why bsd? big question - lot's of answers it's laid out a lot more logically than linux better memory and resource mngmnt ports is what apt-get wants to be (ToyMan likes apt-get) for servers, it just rocks i'm trying it out on a new workstation too in the next couplue of days that's the short list :) what's so great about ports? you gotta compile it all right? btw, there's gentoo linux that uses ports I think debian is layed out very logically...some say even bsd-like dir struc and dev is better in bsd imho does bsd have any journaling file systems? devfs rules I think so, ...not sure yet i'm stil a relative newby ports compiles everything and compiles the dependancies but it's all optimized for your specific machine you make a system wide build file sure, but that takes forever, you know how many debian packages I got installed? ;) and ports looks at the variables there and builds for your processor, environ and whatever naw, its quick you can also pkg_add the binaries I think some day someone will take all of the GNU system plus a coule things and do a make world thing basically it makes it impossible by definition to break your system but even debian unstable rarely breaks...would be nice to hav it all optimized, but no one has built and optimized distro yet make world (that's everything on the box) on my dual 700 takes about 1:15 I just don't like to compile mcuh anyway unless I am gonna hack the code this is single PIII 450 with ports, you navigate to the dir 'usr/ports/whatever reinhard (rm@62.47.44.46) left irc: Ping timeout for reinhard[62.47.44.46] type make install clean done! sure, but compiling everythgin still takes longer the system build file makes sure everything is optomized apt-get install is good enough for me apt-get is good Action: ToyMan still thinks ports is better...:) I got all of gnome on here, you know how long that would take reinhard (rm@N802P014.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. I'm impatient enough waiting for apckages to download :P wb reinhard heheh think my provider is teasing me today brb ToyMan: so you got python on that bsd nox yet? box yep 2.1 they should have optimized packages for debian that would be cool who is they? debian ppl maintainers ahhh. one sec... back again i get impatient with how long the debian folks take to update sometimes...that is Action: ToyMan is not making packages so he shouldn't complain :) well I just run unstable I tried to run unstable on my debian box but the ximmian apps break everything :( Action: ToyMan runs a highly modified potato @ home bbl jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: [x]chat dnWork (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Ping timeout for dnWork[cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net] dnWork (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. nite all reinhard (rm@N802P014.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Those who say it can't be done should never stop those who are actually doing it. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.38) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.38) left irc: [x]chat ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.38) joined #gnuenterprise. hey ra3vat hi all chillywilly: hello jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Ping timeout for jcater[w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net] chillywilly (danielb@158.milwaukee-01-02rs16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net) left irc: Read error to chillywilly[158.milwaukee-01-02rs16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net]: EOF from client ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.38) left irc: Read error to ra3vat[195.239.66.38]: EOF from client ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.35) joined #gnuenterprise. dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) left irc: Ping timeout for dtm[m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com] dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (jason@1Cust217.tnt2.memphis3.tn.da.uu.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi jason er howdy howdy bbl ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.35) left irc: [x]chat bbl jcater (jason@1Cust217.tnt2.memphis3.tn.da.uu.net) left irc: Client Exiting dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: BitchX: the cootiless client jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201168.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ jbailey (we-refuse-@fencepost.gnu.org) joined #gnuenterprise. 'lo! hi Heya jamest - you still up hacking? it's only 8:45pm grandpa doesn't need to go to bed yet! heh. I'm just looking at the lead article on www.gnue.org - Mind if I ask a question or two? sure disclaimer Action: jamest doesn't have a clue what that article is =) It's about Lutris dropping support for Enhydra Enterprise, and GNUE developping it's own "j2ee" application server. I'm curious as to what part of Gnue is doing this that I've missed? (And how this ties into a project that I haven't told you about yet, but I wanted to pitch to you folks a little later) Action: jamest blinks Action: jbailey bats his eyelashes =) hmmm i think derek misworded that we're doing geas not a j2ee clone but pitch away I'm all ears erm, and other various body parts Okay. I'll give you the idea. Basically... sold! when can it be done ? oh wait The idea is that data structure (shit... phone...) you were saying? phone shitting data structures......... i like it okay, I'll start again. The idea initially started off as a nice generic way of handling data entry through a web page. (...) The idea was that a data descriptor would get written that matched the database, and it would create all of the fields, etc, that you needed on the web page. From there you could style it so that it looked the way you wanted it to. dnWork (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Ping timeout for dnWork[cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net] dnWork (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. and? After playing with Enhydra a little, we got to see some crazy things you could do with the output on web pages. Basically enhydra (or something like it) becomes a presentational component. and our package helps with the data entry side. I see alot of what we're doing exists in geas. but geas doesn't seem light weight to really serve up web pages. done? yeah. The focus of our project is specifically internet publishing environments. so what you are saying is this you create a database you create a generic descriptor of the database fields you want data entry on you then display this via a std client that applies styles the client generates html forms right? yup lol We've implemented it twice for companies and basically want to write it again and gpl it. gnuef will soon do that w/o any app server we've got a guy that is writing an UIhtml driver and we're undergoing a rewrite of the UI system to accomidate it ah? Excellent. I don't remember seeing that written anywhere. :) gnuef is both 2-tier and soon n-tier the only ui working at the moment is wxPython (win32, gtk, motif) the UIhtml will display the forms but the guy working on it got very sick so I don't have code to fold into the system yet but I think gnuef might be what you require as it supports a proverbial buttload of database systems (many untested :( It sounds very much like it. ls dbdrivers/ CVS _dbsig _static factory.py informix mysql popy pypgsql __init__.py _empty cxoracle factory.pyc ingres odbc postgresql sapdb __init__.pyc _pgsql db2 geas interbase oracle psycopg sybase and it's UI system will allow for things like GUI, curses, html all from same gfd file I'm itching to get support for other app servers in there once n-tier support is working again Are you guys still working in pretty much python only? at the moment we've begun hashing out an interface for multi-language triggers/methods but it's still in design phase i think you'll see 0.1.0 out soon that is about what cvs is today with 0.3.0 out next supporting multi UIs 0.5.0 will hopefully nail down mutli-langauge triggers that's off top of head as I see it, others may want something different cool. If you are building that HTML UI thing, I will probably be willing to hack gnue code, but I don't speak python, and it's not on my list of languages to learn. =( lol well two things most modern languages shouldn't require "learning" IMO.. ;-) so similar its easy to use another language (I had a fair amount of GNU time in the next 6 months set aside for this, as does a friend of mine - but we were doing it in C++) if you can code C/C++ you can code python (it's easy to learn) we're always looking for GEAS coders too if you are happy w/ our slow pace on the UI drivers then we could use help all over the place we've got lots of irons in the fire and few people to tend them Hmmm.. worth thinking about. (I'm just reading your Gnuef description on the web, and as soon as you add a reasonable web front end on there, it's exactly what we want (assuming that it can be secured correctly)) secured correctly? Access control to the web pages so that only the appropriate admin can change database values. gnuef does require login but I have yet to see the UIhtml system at work I have no idea as to its current state so I don't know how he handled that gnuef UI is undergoing a complete overhaul one cool thing though your UI descriptor can be built and tested today via gnue designer and gnue forms designer (in cvs) has a wizard that lays out a basic form from a table in like 20 seconds wow. it's still 0.1.0 stuff but it gets a "work for me" stamp of approval Do you guys plan to inherit the DB structure from the databases? ? Like right now you have to teach gnue about the database, yes? geas builds the tables it needs to provide persistance to its objects designer simply queries a database for it's table sturcture to present a basic form using the tables fields then you have to remove add fields you'd like remove|add it can also do master/detail relationships but you have to hand code those it's planned for annother wizzard though awsome. for all it's flaws I'm still pretty happy with how gnuef is growing up I just wish my baby didn't spend as much time in the hands of the questionable characters you find in here :) It's okay. The evil chillywilly seems to like hanging out in #hurd instead. =) :) i really can't call forms my baby anymore anyway your teenager. =0 (with all the good and bad that entails...) i mean too many people have too much time in it it's our baby :) Huh. Maybe once I'm employed, I'll learn enough python to help. Nick change: dnWork -> derek still looking for work? yeah. But in Toronto now, instead of New York. globe trotter I have a potential job lines up. Sadly doesn't start until Next Year when they have the budget.. =) *sigh* jbailey: two things to start a. jamest is right our xml for forms is just that descriptors to build ANY ui for entry (web is on the way, but so is a phone interface) :) b. reports is all xml based to extracting data for readonly can be sky is the limit derek: I didn't want to scare him i.e. data in xml is forms data out xml is reports integrator will be a tool that you can map from one data engine to another to do 'conversions' as to me saying gnue was doing own j2ee on the lead story i must have been misleading integrator is complete vapourwear right now, yes? the point was everyone tells us to make j2ee. we decided to make our own non-j2ee middleware jbailey: yes and no there is code for it and xml dtd's for it and some nice diagrams but 'functional' no (still toyware) and it should be in python instead of C ;) (Do you guys use DTDs or Schemas? In our concepts we used Schemas to allow us to tell the display engine how to display each field) put it this way dtds are somewhat a waste in my mind :) but das wanted to write one they way it will work is all magic :) heh i.e. integrator reads datasource A