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<Mr_You> this new movie uses the ximian logo heh
<chillywilly> what movie?
<Mr_You> golden monkey or something?
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> I never noticed
<Mr_You> I wanna see these new "Lee" movies..
<Mr_You> anyone read the interview with Linus?
<chillywilly> nope
<Mr_You> a few times he said he didn't care what "the competition" was doing and was making the linux kernel decisions not based on the competition
<chillywilly> who is the cometition?
<chillywilly> competition even
<Mr_You> BTW, I emailed an very short introduction to the enterprise.kde.org mailing list ;-)
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> they will hate us
<Mr_You> chilly: Desktop competition like M$ I guess
<chillywilly> I guarantee it
<chillywilly> they are allergic to GNU
<Mr_You> thats too bad, maybe someone won't be tho
<chillywilly> well t will be interesting to say the least
<chillywilly> s/t/it
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> bed time
<chillywilly> I can't keep my eyes open
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<jbailey> When does Derek normally appear?
<jcater> normally by now
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<jbailey> jcater: Tx.
<jamest> after a summoning of evil incantation typically
<jamest> very nasty really as it involves a coders blood
<jbailey> Excellent. =)
<jbailey> REminds me of the days when men were men, and the blood sacrifices kept the angry gods at bay.
<jamest> i think the sent attracts him though
<jamest> scent
<jbailey> oh well, I'll catch him this afternoon.
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<dneighbo> have any of you heard of geocaching?
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> dneighbo: how do you make emacs background drak?
<chillywilly> dark
<dneighbo> set it to dark
<ajmitch> did someone spill coder's blood or something?
<chillywilly> well duh, what is th eelisp code though
<dneighbo> (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(foreground-color . "Black"))
<dneighbo> (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(cursor-color . "red"))
<dneighbo> (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(background-color . "LightGoldenRodYellow"))
<dneighbo> would be a yellow back ground with black text
<dneighbo> and red cursor
<dneighbo> just change color to your likings
<chillywilly> that's how you got yours setup?
<chillywilly> yellow background?
<chillywilly> doesn't that hurt your eyes
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> that's why he does yell "ow" !!
<reinhard> :)
<dneighbo> i dont do that that was from doc
<dneighbo> im on a new install here
<dneighbo> havent slurped down my .emacs file yet :)
<chillywilly> what colors do you use?
<dneighbo> black background
<dneighbo> white foreground
<chillywilly> Symbol's value as variable is void: x
<chillywilly> wtf?
<chillywilly> hmmm
<dneighbo> http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/.emacs
<dneighbo> is a .emacs file of mine from a while back
<chillywilly> bah
<ajmitch> chillywilly: i thought you were a hardened vim addict?
<chillywilly> I like to code in emacs
<chillywilly> you know that
<dneighbo> but i dont think that has colors :)
<chillywilly> the bright nope
<chillywilly> uh, woops
<dneighbo> you gonna make me dig out my laptop and boot it up :)
Action: chillywilly beats masta with a stick
<chillywilly> yup
<chillywilly> damn it is something else that is forked up
Action: ajmitch joins #debian to see if anything in sid is borken today (before he finishes the upgrade in 12 hours or so)
<chillywilly> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-variable x)
<chillywilly>   eval-buffer(#<buffer  *load*> nil "~/.emacs" nil t)
<chillywilly>   load-with-code-conversion("/home/danielb/.emacs" "~/.emacs" t t)
<chillywilly>   load("~/.emacs" t t)
<chillywilly>   #[nil "…—
<chillywilly> that makes no damn sense
<dneighbo> too many trues
<dneighbo> load("~/.emacs" t)
<dneighbo> is probably what you want
<chillywilly> but I don't have a line int here like that
<dneighbo> crap i dont set my emacs up in .emacs for colors :)
<dneighbo> in .Xdefaults
<dneighbo> emacs*Background : #hexnumber
<chillywilly> haha
<dneighbo> emacs*Foreground : #hexnumber
<chillywilly> I had a lone 'x' in the beginning of the file
<dneighbo> emacs*pointerColor : #hexnumber
<chillywilly> that fucked everything up
<dneighbo> emacs*cursorColor: #hexnumber
<dneighbo> emacs*bitmapIcon: on
<dneighbo> emacs*font: fixed
<ajmitch> emacs*Background: DarkSlateGray
<ajmitch> emacs*Foreground: Wheat
<ajmitch> emacs*pointerColor: Orchid
<ajmitch> emacs*cursorColor: Orchid
<ajmitch> emacs*bitmapIcon: on
<ajmitch> emacs*font: fixed
<ajmitch> emacs.geometry: 80x25
<jamest> geocaching: A policy put in place by masta's everywhere to ensure that coders, if they make it past the border,  are returned to their country of origin 
<dneighbo> rofl
<ajmitch> chillywilly: that's why i got a different looking emacs from you, ya know
<dneighbo> http://www.geocaching.com and it looks pretty cool some friends here do it
<ajmitch> chillywilly: i remembered that after you asked
<chillywilly> ajmitch: ?
<dneighbo> http://geocaching.snaptek.com is the arizona offical geocache site
<ajmitch> chillywilly: sigh, ~/.Xdefaults
<chillywilly> the AZ site is fugly man
<chillywilly> .Xdefaults is the lame way to do it
<dneighbo> chillywilly hit refresh
<dneighbo> it does a new theme on every load
<chillywilly> oh
<dneighbo> they are making it fully themable (so you pick theme you like), just they dont have the 'pick the theme' part done
<dneighbo> so they just randomly give it a them each request :)
<chillywilly> I need food
<chillywilly> anyone want to donate to the Free Food Foundatin?
<chillywilly> oh wait, we have some bread now
<chillywilly> woohoo
<dneighbo> cool
<dneighbo> bread rocks ;)
Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:03:30)
<jcater> bread rocks? I prefer softer bread myself
Action: chillywilly feels like he has a rock i his throat
<chillywilly> s/i/in
Action: jcater slaps chillywilly with a trout
<jcater> did that help?
<chillywilly> yea because my head hurts mor enow
<chillywilly> thanks man
<chillywilly> everytime I swallow it feels like I am swallowing a rock
<chillywilly> this sucks
<chillywilly> I need to go take some more drugs
<jcater> sore throat?
<chillywilly> sorta, but it is more like the muscles outside my neck are strained
<chillywilly> if I titlt my head back I can feel the soreness of the muscles
<chillywilly> well omre like the muscles right arouins my throat are strined or maybe it is a gland thing...I dunno it just fucking hurts
<chillywilly> when I swallow I use those muscles so it hurts
<chillywilly> maybe I slept wrong the other night
<chillywilly> or it is just a muscle spasm
<chillywilly> somtimes it clenches up
<chillywilly> it is weird
<chillywilly> I don't have much of an apetite though
<chillywilly>  GSim::tracelock.EnterMutex ();
<chillywilly>   GSim::ostr << name << " to start process at time " << (Simulation::Instance ()->Clock () + tCreate) << endl;
<chillywilly>   GSim::Trace (cerr, GSim::ostr.str ());
<chillywilly>   GSim::tracelock.LeaveMutex ();
<chillywilly> anyone know how I could put this into one function?
<chillywilly> I wish C++ could add strings like Java and python
<chillywilly> I have to use a string stream
<chillywilly> to be able to add other types into a string
<chillywilly> some day I'll make my own string class and write some operators to add other types to strings
<dneighbo> howdy jcater
<dneighbo> i have 'reports' issues :(
<jcater> howdy masta
<dneighbo> i cant get reports to work from cvs
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> I mighta broke it recently :(
<dneighbo> let me know when you hvae time for luser support :)
Action: jcater will look
<dneighbo> it seems to bitch about something about a section
<chillywilly> this sucks, eating is no fun
<dneighbo> oh and the install doesnt work :)
<jcater> are you using my sample file or one of yours?
<dneighbo> setup.py has some issues
<dneighbo> you copied from gnuef :)
<jcater> the setup.py in gnue works for a devel install
<dneighbo> so you didnt 'change' everythign properly (or so it seemed 
<dneighbo> nope no work for devel install
<dneighbo> you had it point to 
<jcater> but I'm using it?
<dneighbo> cvs/something/something/reports/.cvsdevelbase
<dneighbo> but it needed to be cvs/something/something/gnuef/.cvsdevelbase
<dneighbo> and then you have it pointing to GFClient.py
<dneighbo> instead of GRrun.py
<jcater> which setup.py are you using?
<dneighbo> the one in 
<chillywilly> TGIF
<dneighbo> sun of a bitch
<dneighbo> you know what it is jcater 
<jcater> ?
<dneighbo> i started to do the setup :)
<dneighbo> i had copied everything over
<dneighbo> and didnt finish
Action: chillywilly breaks out thr trout
<dneighbo> when i updated cvs
<dneighbo> it must have done a 'merge' :)
Action: chillywilly proceeds to beat da masta
<dneighbo> btw: i got it to work
<dneighbo> ok now to the reports problem
<dneighbo> jcater : i use the sample
<dneighbo> i didnt have the tables though :(
<dneighbo> as gnue-config does evil things :)
<dneighbo> when done in same db i think 
<jcater> oh
<dneighbo> but i got it built to spec
<dneighbo> just changed the field names
<dneighbo> from like state_code to state
<dneighbo> and soemthing else
<dneighbo> now im getting an error that i think is 'real' not masta induced :)
<dneighbo> btw
<dneighbo> setup.py devel
<dneighbo> doest seem to make the symlink
<dneighbo> so grcvs runs from anywhere is that correct?
<dneighbo> or perhaps i just need to wipe reports dir and re checkout
<dneighbo> GRLayout.py line 249 pocessAsController
<jcater> I haven't messed w/the setup.py in the reports directory much... it still needs work
<dneighbo> c2.processDefault(dest, self._mapper)
<dneighbo> AttributeError: GRSection instance has no attribute '_mapper'
<dneighbo> is the error
<jcater> wtf
<jcater> is there data in them thar tables?
<dneighbo> prolly not :)
<dneighbo> piss
<dneighbo> there is in state
<dneighbo> but NOT in zip
<dneighbo> fricking fracking
<dneighbo> sigh the box w/ reports aint on the net will have to sill one
<dneighbo> steal even
<jcater> this is a good thing
<dneighbo> at least i know where i can help reports 
<jcater> I must've introduced a bug last week
<dneighbo> 'user testing and error handling' ;)
<jcater> :)
<dneighbo> jcater i looked at the mailer and was bummed
<dneighbo> it looks like you depend on xml record sets
<dneighbo> is there any chance of redoing in python
<dneighbo> and using gnuecommon
<dneighbo> so you could map direclty from db?
<dneighbo> or do you have a tool to get from a db to the xml record set?
Action: dneighbo didnt dig too hard
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<dneighbo> sup jb
<jbailey> dneighbo: What python package are you guys using on win32?
<dneighbo> python :)
<jcater> dneighbo: yeah, it's called "gnue-reports"
<dneighbo> i have tested with active-state python
<dneighbo> jcater: rofl, guess i didnt think of that :)
<dneighbo> jcater: i might build on that if you dont mind
<dneighbo> and make it almost its own 'report' engine
<dneighbo> or we should discuss as for hotel guys
<dneighbo> they use mail form letters like friggin crazy
<jbailey> dneighbo: Okay.  I'm chewing in my head how I would do this packaging in a way that supports having packages on win32 as well.  
<dneighbo> half my time is spent doing mail merges
<dneighbo> jbailey we are compatiable with activestate python as well (as i use it at work to play with com crap)
<dneighbo> distutils is what we are using to do the 'installs'
<jbailey> dneighbo: Okay, that at least gives me some parameters to think of it in.
<jbailey> Tx.
<dneighbo> distutils is interest
<dneighbo> in
<dneighbo> g
<dneighbo> but far from 'stellar'
<dneighbo> we have talked about doing
<dneighbo> a. writing own installer (probably long run best idea)
<dneighbo> b. trying to extend distutils to do things better
<jcater> ooh, ooh.. I've been invited to the launch party for WinXP here in Memphis :)
<jcater> should I go???
<dneighbo> i think jcater started a setup program in gnue-common
<dneighbo> jcater absolutely wearing a tux tshirt and gnu hat
<dneighbo> handing out gnue cd's ;)
<dneighbo> chanting, 'hell no we wont go' 'hell no we wont go'
<jbailey> dneighbo: Why would you not use some random Free installer for win32?
<dneighbo> i prefer to be consistent
<jbailey> consistent in what way?
<dneighbo> i think it makes sense to have one installer that works for all platforms
<dneighbo> not installer x for winders and and installer y for linux and installer z for platformxxx
<jbailey> I don't.  You're going to have .deb for debian systems, .rpm for RedHat systems, presumably you'll make solaris and hp packages with the correct package manager.
<dneighbo> doesnt matter
<jbailey> Consistant installers don't accept the reality that file locations may be in significantly different places for each OS.
<dneighbo> im thinking it will install and update
<dneighbo> and eventually will do our 'packages/modules'
<dneighbo> im thinking of a 'red carpet' of sorts only for gnue
<dneighbo> i dont think we have to focus on it so much currently
<dneighbo> we should be able to make debs w/o focusing on installer i assume
<jbailey> I think that the 'red carpet' thing should be only a light chainloader that fetches the correct package for the platform.  I really strongly beleive that it's a mistake to do otherwise.
<jbailey> Well, you've expressed a strong concern about windows installability already.
<jcater> dneighbo: just committed a fix for that exception
<dneighbo> we install on windows fine currently
<jbailey> And have a sucky install on unix.
<dneighbo> ./setup.py install
<dneighbo> and on unix its fine too
<dneighbo> ./setup.py install
<jbailey> It is *not* fine.  It installs everything into hard coded locations.
<jcater> jbailey: no it doesn't
<dneighbo> that makes support easier ;)
<jcater> you can pass --prefix= to setup.py
<jbailey> jcater: My checkout from 2 weeks ago has /usr/local hardcoded in most places.
<dneighbo> my understanding is you can change the locations
<chillywilly> you should use autoconf and automake and be good GNU developers
<jcater> we probably just need better instructions on changing it
<chillywilly> :P
<jcater> but it's not hardcoded
<dneighbo> btw: im not saying setup.py (is god) but it works pretty well for right now
<chillywilly> setup.py is lame
<jcater> :)
<jcater> chillywilly: but, it works :)
<dneighbo> it does work
<jcater> I won't deny that it's lame
<dneighbo> you can make rpms VERY easily from it
<jcater> and trust me, it has limitations
<jcater> but it currently works
<jbailey> O
<dneighbo> and it probably wouldnt be too hard to make debians
<chillywilly> 1
<chillywilly> 2
<chillywilly> 3
<dneighbo> (jade had something going at one time for debs with distutils)
<dneighbo> then on windows
<dneighbo> i think if we played for any amount of time
<jbailey> I'm looking at setup.py in gnuef and all of INSTALL_PREFIX, GNUE_CONNECTIONS etc has /usr/local hardcoded
<dneighbo> we coudl get py2exe to work
<dneighbo> er actually it makes .exes too
<dneighbo> what am i htinking :)
<dneighbo> so fix setup.py :)
<chillywilly> no, switch to autoconf and automake :P
<jbailey> dneighbo: I want to.  By replacing it with autoconf. ;)
<chillywilly> hehe
<jbailey> But I want to make sure I preserve the windows install correctly.
<jbailey> You can always, of course, tell me not to bother. ;)
<jbailey> But that's my general proposal, is that autoconf be used to generate the byte-compiled python files, and that a packager be used seperate for each platform.
<chillywilly> jbailey: I think you scared them away
<chillywilly> :P
<jbailey> chillywilly: It's happened before. =)
<jcater> I personally DON'T want to see us go to autoconf/automake for the python tools... it seems so illogical
<jcater> but that's all I'm going to say
<chillywilly> just because they are python weenies doesn't mean they can't use some real tools like autoconf and automake
<jamest> jbailey: we used autoconf at first
<jamest> but it didn't support python apps
<chillywilly> hell I had written a configure script for this php app
<jbailey> jcater: I don't get the illogic of it.  autoconf provides you the ability to from a single point in the tree type ./configure --prefix=/usr and have everything (python, c, C++) configured and then installed correctly.
<jamest> so we switched to setup.py and found it easier to deal with 
<jamest> however it sucks too
<jamest> as it can't do lots of things
<jbailey> I think most of the support you need for python is in automake, not autoconf, yes?
<jamest> at the time nothing in automake/autoconf supported python apps
<jamest> there were patches floating arround the net that added support
<chillywilly> well there's support now isn't there?
<jamest> i have no idea if it's there now
<jamest> and I could care less what we use
<jamest> as long as I don't have to maintain it 
<jamest> :)
<jamest> setup.py I can deal with
<jamest> as for a windows installer 
<jamest> py2exe and mymillian(sp?) installers both choaked on gnue python packages
<jamest> and I haven't figured out why
Action: chillywilly does ./autgen.sh --prefix=/usr for his little project...
<reinhard> fwiw automake 1.5 now has built in support for python
<ajmitch> little project?
<jamest> ajmitch: it's his pr0n downloader app I think
<jamest> j/k :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> bad chillywilly!
<chillywilly> no no, the ptp server
<chillywilly> pro transfer protocol
<jbailey> pretty tight?
<chillywilly> pr0n
<jamest> i don't want windows users to have to deal w/ configure though
<jbailey> err..
<jamest> pretty tacky pr0n
<chillywilly> ecrw windows users they should be installing it anyway
<jbailey> jamest: Windows users, or windows developers?
<chillywilly> screw
<jamest> users
<jbailey> I tend to assume that the users should never have to compile from source anyway...
<chillywilly> jamest: no pr0n trasfer protocol
<chillywilly> damnit
<chillywilly> don't go changing it on me
Action: reinhard is just reading the web page of djgpp
<reinhard> maybe that would be an alternative to cygwin
<jamest> jbailey: if we didn't a configure solution
<chillywilly> I say make them install cygwin it is very easy ;)
<jamest> what would be the fallout to windows users
<jamest> cygwin is _NOT_ an option
<jbailey> jamest: What part of cygwin?  the environment?  cygwin1.dll?
<jamest> the whole thing
<jbailey> why not?
<jamest> I'm 1 for 3 on a good cygwin install
<jbailey> okay, that's the environment
<jamest> and windows users should only need setup.exe to deal w/ gnue
<chillywilly> it IS an option I just fucking installed it the other day hell my mother could install the damn thing
<jbailey> I've never deviated from the fact that a *user* should never have to install anything other than a binary.
<ajmitch> chillywilly: be calm, my friend
<jamest> then send you mother to KS and have her baby sit the damn thing while it fails installation for the upteen time
<chillywilly> ajmitch: don't get me started
<jamest> i have other things to do
<jbailey> The only question is what requirements do you place on folks needing to compile it/.
<jamest> my issues are this:
<jamest>   1 - it should install via setup.exe on windows
<chillywilly> jamest: I didn;t have to baby sit it, in fact I left to go eat dinner and came back and it was done
<chillywilly> we went to a restaurant and were gone for an hour or so
<jamest>  2 - it should, as part of it's install, access our config system (the stuff jcater has worked on) to setup a proper environment
<jamest> those are my 2 big concerns
<jamest> I'm not 100% against have developers have more to do
<jbailey> Okay.  I'll need to learn more about the config system.
<jbailey> Is there an email thread I can refer to?
<jamest> nope
<jamest> chillywilly: then I'll take her to dinner during the install
<chillywilly> jamest: shutup
<jbailey> jamest: I think we can work this out.
<jamest> and how would this interact with a windows installer?
<chillywilly> who cares?
<jbailey> jamest: The windows installer has to think about registering the package correctly with the OS, right?  The same as a debian package would.
<jbailey> fundamentally, I see using autoconf/automake to generate the byte coded files.  I don't yet know
<jbailey> if these are arch specific or not.  You're going to have to build on the local system for
<jbailey> geas anyway.  But the principal is that for each arch, you'll tell it to generate the package,
<chillywilly> write a windows installer yet, you see the only thig that is radically different here is windows all the other decent OSes have a unix/POSIX environment to them, even MacOS....al this should be able to be handled by gnu tutilities
<chillywilly> s/yet/then'
<jbailey> on windows it will compile, and generate a setup.exe that can load the files into place, and do the appropriate registration.
<jbailey> there's a few options here.
<jbailey> That installer can be taught to fetch the needed files from an ftp site,
<jbailey> or it can have them locally.
<jbailey> I prefer in this case to have them locally, and have the "red carpet" application be simply a chainloader
<jbailey> that downloads any recent files and then fires up setup.exe - similar
<jbailey> to windows update.
<chillywilly> isn' t that the way red carpet is?
<jbailey> I have to check, but if the byte coding is the same, then it may be reasonable
<jbailey> to produce these packages from another IA32 based system (Like Linux) using a cross compiler.
<chillywilly> python is platform independent
<jbailey> chillywilly: I avoided red carpet, it had a habit of breaking my system
<chillywilly> same bytecode runs everywhere
<chillywilly> jbailey: well I never used nor do I want to
<jbailey> even across different archs?  that's silly.  You lose alot from endian conversion that way.
<jamest> jbailey: the .pyc files are byte coded the same
<chillywilly> jbailey: python is ver similar to java this way
<chillywilly> the interpreter does the dirty work
<jbailey> The fundamental idea then, is that from a single system with a whole bunch of cross compilers,
<jbailey> you'll be able to do a 'make world' type of thing and have it produce debian, redhat, windows, solaris, etc...
<reinhard> gameboy
<jbailey> all the appropriate things that you can move into an ftp site, for the red carpet application to fetch.
<jamest> jbailey: you know how to do all this?
<jbailey> reinhard: You write the package manager, I'll integrate it. =)
<reinhard> ;)
<jbailey> jamest: It's been a long time since I've cross compiled to windows, and I've never used python. =)  Aside from that, I can make debs, and rpms.  other packages will require research.
<jbailey> The other thing is finding a decent Free windows installer, but we can't be the first ones with this problem. 
<reinhard> jbailey: there was an april joke in a german computer magazine that they ported linux (the kernel) to gameboy architecture :)
<chillywilly> hmmmm, that's very believable though reinhard
<jbailey> reinhard: I'd beleive it.  Do you know how much processing power is in those little buggers? =)
<jamest> jbailey: I had a list just a sec
<jbailey> World war 2 generals would have been jealous of the average 4 year old.
<reinhard> yep
<chillywilly> embedded linux is a reality now a days
<reinhard> iirc it was a pdp8 who flew to the moon in the apollo 8
<chillywilly> heheh
<jbailey> ouch
<jbailey> That's heavy.
<reinhard> now they tell every secretary that
<chillywilly> ya, it is seriously mind boggling to think about how much processing power we have versus 5 to 10 years ago
<reinhard> she needs a dual pentium
<reinhard> to write a letter :)
<jbailey> reinhard: they==microsoft.  blech.
<reinhard> jbailey: exactly
<jbailey> The problem is that most MS apps are written so that it's true!
<jbailey> jamest: Does this vision satisfy?
<chillywilly> bah, there are some Free Software apps that are just as heavy
<chillywilly> mozilla, nautilus,....
<jamest> http://www.jordanr.dhs.org/isinfo.htm
<jbailey> chillywilly: Both are *much* better in CVS now.  Nautilus got run over by Alan Cox.. =)
<jamest> jbailey: one last issue I forsee
<chillywilly> jbailey: yes, I know but they are still heavy
<jbailey> jamest: My 10% raise?
<chillywilly> jbailey: I should compile nautilus form cvs one of these days as the html component on sid is borked
<jamest> py2exe and mcmillan installer (http://www.mcmillan-inc.com) both analyze a python programs dependencies
<jamest> (the modules it imports)
<jamest> like wxwindows, mxdatetime, etc
<chillywilly> uhuh
<jamest> and somehow merges that crap into a single install
<jamest> jbailey: 0 * 1.10....done
<chillywilly> does it work?
<jbailey> jamest: I'll have to look at it more to really understand how python deals with it's library components.  It's a pretty big unknown to me.  However, if it's simply detecting the presence, I don't see it being difficult.
<jbailey> *Version* dependancy might be quite hard, unless there's some native python support.
<jbailey> I tend to be spoiled by depends: lines in debian packages =)
<jbailey> Gotta run, I'll bbiab
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Action: chillywilly drop kicks jamest
Action: ajmitch drop kicks chillywilly
Action: chillywilly drop kicks ajmitch
Action: chillywilly puts jamest in a head lock
Action: chillywilly gives jamest the DDT
<jamest> whew
Action: jamest is thankfull it isn't an std
<chillywilly> eeeew
<chillywilly> you're a sick BOFH aren't you?
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> chillywilly: why, what did you think std means?
<ajmitch> you have a sick mind
<chillywilly> jamest: if everything is such a hassle to do then why not just use windows....it's EASY! andyone can do it even their mother!
<chillywilly> ajmitch: uh, what do you think it means
<ajmitch> chillywilly: you are sick if you suggest ppl use windows
<chillywilly> only ppl who bitch and complain should use windows
<chillywilly> they should be forced to use it as punishment
<chillywilly> then they will appreciate all that is GNU
<ajmitch> i don't wanna
<ajmitch> GNU sucks, windows r00lz
<chillywilly> no one expects the GNU inwuisition
<ajmitch> i am 31337, u are not
<ajmitch> hahaha
<chillywilly> er, inquisition
Action: ajmitch has succumbed to the IQ drain of IRC
<chillywilly> and as punishment for defying to gnu inquisition you MUST use winblows
<chillywilly> until they say you can stop
<reinhard> chillywilly: i will throw soft pillows at you until you bleed
<chillywilly> why?
<chillywilly> I'll take you all on
<ajmitch> hah
<chillywilly> I don;t care
Action: ajmitch throws a baseball at chillywilly's sore neck
<chillywilly> I am as crazy as they come
<reinhard> chillywilly: you don't know the monty python scetch
<reinhard> sketch
<reinhard> ?
<chillywilly> well my monty python knowledge is lacking a bit
<reinhard> then you shouldn't say things like
<chillywilly> ajmitch: prepare to die
<reinhard> "nobody expects the .... inquisition"
<reinhard> :)
<chillywilly> I know I ripped that off of monty python
<chillywilly> I just don't remember the soft pillows one
<reinhard> it's the same sketch
<chillywilly> THEY ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT STOP UNTIL YOU ARE DEAD!!!
Action: chillywilly just saw that on the scifi channel
<chillywilly> man I am bored
<chillywilly> I need to go run around outside or something creaming at the top of my lung naked
<chillywilly> screaming
<chillywilly> alksjdl;kAJSLFJAL'KSJD;LKAJSD;LKJA;LSKDJ;LKASJDL;KJ
<ajmitch> chillywilly: you go do that...
Action: chillywilly beats reinhard with pillows
<chillywilly> I know I need to rock out man
Action: chillywilly picks up his guitar
<chillywilly> I need to go run around with my son for a bit
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<chillywilly> uh oh
<jbailey> you oh?
Action: chillywilly drop kicks jbailey
<jbailey> chillywilly: why?
<chillywilly> because everyone gets a drop kick today
Action: chillywilly drop kicks ajmitch
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<jbailey> chillywilly: Boot to the head.
Action: chillywilly drop kicks Mr_You
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<dtm> ;so@(ijs;jl
<chillywilly> aslkdjhklaejfhlkjshdf
<dtm> chillywilly: whatever you do...  dont get any anthrax on ya!
<dtm> it's bad!
<chillywilly> rofl
<dtm>  i heard that if I see anthrax victims stumbling through the street, deranged, mumbling, with their arms outstretched and flesh dripping from the bones... that Bush will give tax refunds to anyone who just goes ahead and nails em right there in the street with your car
<dtm> dont want a nation fulla undead anthrax zombies, dammit   especially if they were to turn evil 
<dtm> are you all prepared to do your duty?
<dtm> my buddy takes a commute via boat and i told him....if you see em on your boat on the way home -- fight your instinct to throw them overboard.  that'll just contaminate the water.  you have to overpower them on the boat, chop em up, and burn them before the pieces grow into mini-zombies
<dtm> burn em all up , right there on the deck of the boat
<dtm> chillywilly: what are you up to?
<chillywilly> jabber conference
<dtm> what's that
<chillywilly> with dotgnu + jabber ppl
<dtm> on irc/
<dtm> ?
<dtm> via a jabber client/
<dtm> ?
<chillywilly> no
<chillywilly> rooms.theoretic.com
<chillywilly> dotgnu room
<Mr_You> hmm
<Mr_You> how can we improve data quality with GNUe in regards to data entry?  for example
<Mr_You> multiple entries, slightly mispelled addresses or names
<Mr_You> s/,/ with/
<Mr_You> one idea, is to define a format
<Mr_You> like #### CHAR* CHAR*
<Mr_You> anyone?  bueller?
<Mr_You> bayonne release today?
<jamest> Mr_You: it's being worked on
<jamest> the input masks
<jamest> in forms will do that 
<Mr_You> sweet ;-)
<jamest> maybe something at geas level would be wanted as well
<jbailey> Do any of you actively run windows during the day?
<Mr_You> Bayonne article: http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/10/12/1355258&mode=nocomment
<Mr_You> jbailey: why would anyone admit that?
<jcater> jbailey: unfortunately, yes
<Mr_You> ;-)
<jamest> only in a support sense
<jbailey> jcater: Cool, I'm going to build a cross-compiler to target windows and then build a debian package for it, but I'm wondering if I can DCC the odd file to you for testing to save me having to reboot over and over and over again. ;)
<jcater> jbailey: you're not a fanatic whose's looking for someone to hunt down and sacrifice as an example, are you?
<jcater> um
<jcater> does DCC work thru NAT?
<Mr_You> no
<jcater> someone told me it doesn't
<jcater> you can email it to me at jason at ncsmags dot com
<Mr_You> unless its really really smart
<jbailey> jcater: Pshaw.  I haven't sacrifices anything in.. er...  hours anyway.
<jcater> Mr_You: I set it up, so it's not
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<chillywilly> hey hey hey
<mdean> ho ho ho
<chillywilly> why aren't you hanging out in #phpgw?
<chillywilly> you give up on them or something ;)?
<mdean> I need my time away
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> why?
<chillywilly> they're not that bad are they?
<mdean> I don't like what they're trying to push on GNUe
<chillywilly> you rock man
<mdean> essentially they want GNUe to be a client to phpGW
<mdean> which is bass ackwards
<chillywilly> that Milosch guy was gonna bute off my head when I talked about using GEAS
<chillywilly> er, bite
<chillywilly> yea, it is bass ackwards
<mdean> I had sent an email to their list suggesting a GNUe solution to an "exchange replacement"
<mdean> rather than a PHP based "server"
<chillywilly> uhuh
<chillywilly> did they rip you a new one?
<mdean> the opposite (as is normal with most of my emails): > /dev/null
<chillywilly> ack
<chillywilly> when I was talking about GEAS
<mdean> well - dtm did respond to say "nicely put"
<chillywilly> they were very defensive and hostile
<mdean> yep
<chillywilly> dtm would do that though
<chillywilly> cause dtm rox
<chillywilly> ;)
<mdean> yes indeedy
<mdean> he's da man
<chillywilly> I wonder where my masta went
<mdean> so instead - I'm concentrating on the contact stuff derek and I came up with
<mdean> and looking into Python too
<chillywilly> you gotta wub da masta
<chillywilly> :)
<mdean> ja
<chillywilly> althought somtimes I argue with him too much
<chillywilly> but that's ha;f the fun
<mdean> I thought the term was "debate"
<chillywilly> he knows I still wub him
<chillywilly> uh, yes debate that's the ticket
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<mdean> ls
<mdean> doh!
<chillywilly> hehe
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<chillywilly> where is my masta at?
<chillywilly> mdean: you here?
<mdean> I'm here - you're there
<chillywilly> yulp
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<chillywilly> whatcha doin' mdean?
<mdean> writing a javascript tab control
<chillywilly> you can do tabs in javascript?
<mdean> sho nuff
<mdean> with a little dhtml and js dom, anything is possible
<mdean> well - almost ;-)
<mdean> I'm using the Nautilus default tabs for the gfx even
<chillywilly> how much if a pain is it to get it to work in all browsers though?
<chillywilly> gfx?
<mdean> Konqueror, IE5+, Opera, and Mozilla/NS6 all support dom
<mdean> just have to code a little extra for IE4 and NS4
<mdean> which really isn't that much
<chillywilly> ya, but last I looked you needed to careful
<mdean> gfx = graphics
<mdean> I have all the above mentioned browsers except IE4
<mdean> Opera renders the tabs funny, but I'm not too worried about it atm
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<chillywilly> opera is non-free so who cares :P
<mdean> I know - and it's javascript isn't good enough for DCL last I checked anway
<chillywilly> I shoudl give dcl a try one of these days
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<chillywilly> masta
<chillywilly> damn wat was I gonna ask you masta
<chillywilly> what
<derek> beats me
<derek> well actually masta beats you ;)
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> I deserve it don't I?
<chillywilly> :'(
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<derek> jcater: just the guy i was looking for
<jcater> <chant>
<jcater> I have broadband
[22:37] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<jcater> </chant>
<mdean> <chant repeat="3">I almost have broadband.</chant>
<derek> s'oui mag
<jcater> derek: there's your xml output
<jcater> courtesy of mdean
<jcater> :)
<derek> rofl
<derek> jcater: you here?
<derek> i have python question
<jcater> maybe
<jcater> wassup?
<derek> niver mend
<derek> i fuggered it ert
<jcater> ya mispell '+' again?
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<derek> almost that bad
<derek> couldnt figure out why strip was 
<derek> printing foo.xml
<derek> but if i tried to make a file foo.xml
<derek> it was foo.xml?
<derek> a strip seemed to fix the problem :)
<derek> er couldnt figure out why split was :)
<derek> but after i stripped what was split all was well
<derek> made a really bad (as in not good) script
<derek> taht now you can do
<derek> pyxslt -i someinput.xml -x somesytlesheet.xsl -o someoutput.html
<derek> or you can use a manifest if you want to do several at one time
<derek> not 'highly' useful for anything but playing :)
<derek> but trying to learn xslt and editing the python file all the time was getting old :)
<jcater> :)
<derek> plus it was fun to code somethign for once
<derek> poor oppressed masta doesnt get to 'code' anymore, only analyze :(
<jcater> cool
<jcater> just stay out of jamest and my code :)
<jcater> j/k
<derek> i have to, its too fugly for me to stand ;)
<derek> j/k
<jcater> dang
<jcater> I was just looking at DCL's home page
<jcater> (I need to get a version at home to play with)
<jcater> he actually posts updates on the development for his users
<jcater> hmm... what a novel idea :)
<jcater> mdean: is phpgroupware now required for dcl? 
<mdean> heck no!  I wasn't about to lay that dependency in my code 
<derek> no it is not
<mdean> it is only phpgw aware
<jcater> ok
<derek> jcater: give me another month
<mdean> I will probably never port it, either
<derek> and you will just co the dclgnue tree anyhow
Action: derek almost has mdean convinced :)
<mdean> s/almost//
<jcater> :)
<derek> jcater: you catch any of my thread with dyfet today
<derek> looks like we will get ability to test gnue w/ bayonne 
Action: derek is excited about osdl
<derek> seeing how i have a osdl shirt for everyday of week i suppose i should try to get our gnue crap on the servers they were willing to let use :)
<derek> jcater: not to be pesky, but you have an output file for me?
<derek> :)
<derek> also have you started any reports docs for 'end user'?
<derek> if not i might start tackling that
<jcater> um
<jcater> no
[23:31] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<jcater> I just got home when I logged in 
<jcater> so I haven't been at a workstation since I last talked to you
<jcater> I hope to pull a late night
<jcater> of course, I may get vetoed on that
<derek> rofl: vetoed
<derek> does not compute
<derek> oh wait yes it does :)
<jcater> masta: yes you can be overruled
<jcater> damn
<jcater> gotta run
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<derek> at first i thought that said 
<derek> 'damn i got the runs'
<derek> and i was like... hmmm useful info :)
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--- Sat Oct 13 2001