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<perlh> hi all
<derek> hi
<perlh> hi derek
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<perlh> well thanx like that staff mailed me saying that he had airmailed it
<perlh> derek are u there
<derek> kind of
<perlh> :))
<perlh> well so like he told me it is only after u reminded him he had sent it
<perlh> thanx a lot
<perlh> well one more thing derek i spoke with arun
<perlh> and he was telling about the
<perlh> ofset.org kind of thing
<derek> ?
<derek> hmm ofset seems interesting never heard of it before :)
<perlh> is it
<perlh> well he was telling me that u guys were speaking in those lines
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<dneighbo> interesting stuff
<dneighbo> reading a Ximian press release and a few things caught my eye
<dneighbo> firstly in the past 6 months the following positions have been created
<dneighbo> vp of sales
<ajmitch> oh?
<dneighbo> vp of business development
<dneighbo> vp of marketing
<dneighbo> a cfo was appointed
<dneighbo> and the one that NO ONE covered (or i just missed)
<dneighbo> they appointed a CEO that isnt miguel or nat
<ajmitch> hmm ok
<dneighbo> of all the vp's and cfo and ceo
<dneighbo> NONE of them are 'open source' big name players
<dneighbo> i think you can pretty much 'official' say ximian has sold soul to devil
<ajmitch> heh
<dneighbo> i thought the new look and feel at the web site
<dneighbo> was not very 'our community'
<dneighbo> the new red carpet service was very not our community
<dneighbo> and then the 'open source desktop leader' slogan
<dneighbo> just seemed 'odd'
<dneighbo> but its all falling in place now
<ajmitch> the fact that they've changed from 'Free Software' to 'Open Source' and probably going out the other side to the dark realm of 'Proprietary'?
<dneighbo> yip
<dneighbo> what is funny if you look at the credentials of their management team its like a flash back
<dneighbo> 'product manager' of word star
<ajmitch> to what?
<dneighbo> 'sales manager' ashton tate (dbase)
<dneighbo> etc etc
<ajmitch> heh
<dneighbo> basically these guys worked for companies that where hot back in the mid to late 80s :)
<ajmitch> ouch
<dneighbo> then moved to dot coms no one has heard of 
<dneighbo> and now are at ximian
<ajmitch> dot bombs
<ajmitch> ah well
<ajmitch> ximian wasn't too bad when it was young
<dneighbo> no doubt these were placed by the VC firm
<ajmitch> now it's looking like it needs a bullet between the eyes
<dneighbo> as i know that nat (slightly large ego)
<ajmitch> slightly?
<dneighbo> did not 'willing' step down from CEO to 'product manager'
Action: dneighbo is wondering when they will replace miguel w/ someone :)
<dneighbo> i figure only reason they have not is because it would 'look bad'
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> miguel has 'character'
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<ajmitch> heh, funny talking to someone who wandered into #freedevelopers who's only a couple of buildings away on campus
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> hey ToyMan i got the disk
<dneighbo> but had another customer 'issue' this weekend 
<ToyMan> morning dneighbo, great!
<dneighbo> im thinking office97 and 2000 wont coexist nicely
<ToyMan> did you try an install?
<ToyMan> prblly
<dneighbo> so trying to come up with best strategy on how i want to do this :)
<dneighbo> as im not certain you can 'unistall' m$ products :)
<ToyMan> you running Access 2000 too?
<dneighbo> yip
<ajmitch> dneighbo: you're not talking blasphemy in here are you?
<dneighbo> my windows box is trash
<dneighbo> its only for testing gnue stuff
<dneighbo> and for 'converting' people away from the darkside
<dneighbo> so having to 'reinstall' it wouldnt be end of world
<dneighbo> just debating on how i want to do it
Action: ToyMan spent the whole weekend devirusing windoze boxen :(
<dneighbo> if you are serious (and i think you are) about this
<dneighbo> i might put together a project plan
<dneighbo> with some time lines and course of action
<dneighbo> in which case i will need some feedback on you
<ToyMan> definately serious on this side
<dneighbo> er from you not on you :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ToyMan> heh
<ToyMan> i'm feedback-enabled
<dneighbo> as in thinking some things out debating what is best approach
<ToyMan> well, we had a *rough* outline going before...
<dneighbo> slow: convert to postgres and GNUe all at one time (probably not a good approach)
Action: ToyMan shudders
<ToyMan> one step at a time
<ToyMan> this IS a working system
<dneighbo> medium: convert to postgres and GNUe functionality group by functionality group (possible depends on driving needs)
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<dneighbo> or
<ajmitch> hey jamest
<ToyMan> and we have to keep it that way ;)
<jamest> ????
<jamest> dneighbo, here? now?
<jamest> hey ajmitch
<dneighbo> fast: waterfall with 1. being get access backend OUT of here then 2. slowly start replacing front end with gnue
<dneighbo> hi jamest i havent been to bed yet
<ToyMan> since when?
<dneighbo> i got stuck with a bastard process at work that was gonna be 'easy'
<ToyMan> you're in KS, right?
<jamest> i am
<ToyMan> on
<ToyMan> oh
<dneighbo> then my machine at work crashed (windows) at about 1:30 my time
<dneighbo> and i was in critical system process
<jamest> dneighbo is sometimes in AZ always in state of denile
<dneighbo> so i had to drive down to work
<dneighbo> figured since it was so late i would just stay
<dneighbo> then when the others come in i will head home grab a 3 hour power nap
<jamest> lol
<dneighbo> and play with dstoys this afternoon :)
<ToyMan> prbly too much sun on the brain...
Action: ToyMan likes that senario..
<dneighbo> jamest: btw read the log from 20 minutes ago or so on ximian.. it might shed some light
<ToyMan> ack! I gave up on them...
<ToyMan> everything's alwasys broken or breaking something else...
<ToyMan> dneighbo: I'm liking your 'fast' senario...
<dneighbo> ToyMan : me too (on giving up and liking fast scenario)
<ToyMan> just makes more sense to take the conservative approach
<ToyMan> imhexperience, everything takes MUCH longer than I thought it would...
<dneighbo> ToyMan : hmm ive never experienced that ;)
<dneighbo> ToyMan will you be hanging around today?
<ToyMan> yeah, I'll be around...
<ToyMan> may take me a few minutes to respond, though
<dneighbo> ToyMan im sure i will be going home soon to get some sleep
<dneighbo> so it wouldnt be till later anyhow
<ToyMan> i'm here 'till about 4 pm EST
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<dneighbo> bbl
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<neilt> hello all
<reinhard> hey neilt
<neilt> hey, reinhard
<neilt> no much going on
<neilt> s/no/not/
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<reinhard> neilt: exactly
<reinhard> i could work some 2 or 3 hours on gnue over the weekend
<reinhard> but not much
<neilt> i dont see any time for me for a long time
<neilt> has anyone made forms drivers yet?
<reinhard> i think jamest started but isn't finished
<reinhard> maybe he gave up because of the query problems
<neilt> what query problems
<neilt> ?
<reinhard> that the query interface in the idl is very compilcated
<neilt> ahh that
<neilt> for the time being we could abstract that with gnue-common code
<reinhard> well i will still try to finish the new parser within the next 2 weeks
<reinhard> as i see zero time for gnue between november and february from my side
<reinhard> and i would hate to leave unfinished stuff for such a long time
<jamest> i haven't given up
<jamest> just have had too much on my plate
<jamest> that "real life" thing
<reinhard> uh
<reinhard> seems like we all are facing the same problem
<jamest> that driver is the only thing preventing a 0.1.0 release of forms :(
<jcater> jamest: morning
<jcater> I thought we discussed that "priority" thing?
<jcater> :)p
<jamest> :)
<reinhard> bb
<reinhard> bbl
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<neilt> later all
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<ToyMan> derek: our look at the transition will have to wait till tommorow
<ToyMan> i gotta go fix production machines :(
<ToyMan> if someone sees derek here later please tell him...
<chillywilly> he'll see it eventuallty
<ToyMan> good
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<Mr_You> hi
<Mr_You> progeny debian gone!
<ajmitch> eh?
<Mr_You> which is good news to me.. they've stated that their customers consistently want Debian not Progeny Debian.. 
<Mr_You> creating a fork turned out to be a liability for them..
<chillywilly> why not just redistribute the real debian then
<chillywilly> did they contribute their installer?
<chillywilly> I heard it was a nice installer
<Mr_You> well thats the plan when their services offering requires debian
<Mr_You> but they don't plan to mass sale a debian product
<chillywilly> so, they are no longer doing their own packages, but using the real debian packages?
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<Mr_You> if I finally get to my Debian distro, the installer is about the only thing that will really be "customized".. the rest will just be prebuilt and working software
<Mr_You> chillywilly: they've discontinued any future development on it
<Mr_You> Ian Murdock Chairman of Progeny created Debian
<Mr_You> says they are providing a migration path to woody
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> ya I know Ian is running progeny
<chillywilly> he's a kewl guy
<Mr_You> umm
<Mr_You> wtf is up with this RIAA hacking?
<Mr_You> you know, has/is this country (become) a cluster f*ck of laws that contradict one another?!?!
<Mr_You> its amazing to me if an organization has been given a legal right to hack your system
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<chillywilly> America is headed down the toilet
<chillywilly> soon writing Free Software is gonna be considered terrorism
<chillywilly> when that day comes I am leaving
<jamest> better start packing and get to the airport before they close the borders
<ajmitch> quick! run!
<Mr_You> the idea of finding a second home in another country sounds appealing ;-)
Action: ajmitch wonders how long NZ will be safe
<derek> btw: you wouldnt like ian
<derek> he is pretty much 100% 'open source'
<derek> i.e. very anti gnu
<ajmitch> argh! the anti-gnu!
<derek> at least that is the impression i got in my time with him in new york
<derek> in fact we got in a little 'debate' on the panel we were on, re that very topic
<derek> jamest: you here
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<chillywilly> howdy fellas
<neilt> cw: hello
<chillywilly> derek: I know Ian hates GNU....but he still started up the best darn distro there is ;)
<chillywilly> hi
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<neilt> later all
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Action: chillywilly is away: pick up caroline from work
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<jcater> now if we could only teach ChanServ how to keep ppl off :)
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<derek> rofl
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Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:00:01)
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<javaguy> Anybody home?
Action: jbailey is away: Grocery run...
Action: javaguy is away: catching up on news
Nick change: javaguy -> jgNews
<derek> hello jamest
<derek> er jgNews
<derek> too many j's
<chillywilly> javaguy?!?
<chillywilly> he lives?!?!
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<derek> its rdean in gnuebot?
<derek> er gnuenterprise
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<chillywilly> mmm, k
<chillywilly> hi mdean
<mdean> hi chillywilly
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<jcater> howdy
<mdean> hey jcater
<jcater> how goes it, mdean?
Action: jbailey is back (gone 01:46:16)
<mdean> just peachy - any you?
<jcater> rosey
<mdean> mmmm - peaches and roses
<jcater> hmmm
<jcater> we better stop talking about pleasant things
<jcater> people might start to think this is a pleasant place to be
<mdean> don't need that
<chillywilly> get to coding now damn you!!!
Action: chillywilly 's contribution to get us on the right track
<jcater>  \msg mdean chillywilly's such a violent guy... sometimes think's he's masta
<chillywilly> I am da masta's apprentice
<jcater> or a masta wannabe?
<jcater> :)p
<mdean> chillywilly->RemoveFromDiet(caffeine);
Action: chillywilly whips out his trout and commences the beatings
<chillywilly> mdean: c++?
<chillywilly> that is not allowe in GNU land
<mdean> yes - you are an object - didn't know that?
<jcater> mdean: what's that look like in XSLT?
<chillywilly> allowed, GNUe land
<jcater> lol...
<jcater> can you transform chillywilly?
<mdean> <xsl:if test="item != 'caffeine'"><xsl:value-of select="."/></xsl:if>
<chillywilly> trabsform my caffiene in to .s?
<chillywilly> dots
<chillywilly> er, no
<mdean> nope - passes everything but caffeine
<chillywilly> duh
<chillywilly> well I only had one can of code red hours ago
<chillywilly> so there :P
Action: chillywilly is naturally high
<mdean> so you're not counting the water joe?
<chillywilly> I ain't got no water joe
<mdean> cause you drank it all
<chillywilly> home skillet
<chillywilly> no!
<chillywilly> I had only one can of code red about 4 hours ago
<chillywilly> that is it
<chillywilly> for dunner Ai drank hawaiin punch
<chillywilly> a/Ai/I
<mdean> aha!
Action: chillywilly thinks he spelled thagt wrong
<chillywilly> blah
<chillywilly> it is mdean's fault anyway
<jgNews> bak
Nick change: jgNews -> javaguy
<chillywilly> javaguy!!!
<chillywilly> you live!
<jcater> I was wondering who jg was
<javaguy> Hey, CW!  Wassup
<chillywilly> holy smokes!
<javaguy> Yep ;)
<jcater> damn
<chillywilly> samari jack rox
<jcater> I wish I got this reception when I came in
<chillywilly> you guys watch that cartoon?
<chillywilly> jcater!!!
<chillywilly> get back to coding!!!
<chillywilly> before i trout slap you
<chillywilly> lol
<ajmitch> chillywilly: your threats are hollow
Action: chillywilly baps ajmitchie with a salmon
<ajmitch> *you* are meant to be coding
<chillywilly> ssssshhhhhh
<ajmitch> get to work *now*!!
<chillywilly> what masta don't know
<chillywilly> won't hurt him
Action: javaguy has a feeling he doesn't want to know...
<javaguy> Hey AJ, Jason
<ajmitch> hi javaguy
<jcater> hi javaguy
<jcater> been swingin' lately?
<jcater> err, in the java sense
<chillywilly> swing is the devil
<chillywilly> it is non-free
<chillywilly> :P
<jcater> trout slapping is the devil
<jcater> it is non-kosher
<javaguy> LOL!
<javaguy> No, in both senses...been working on other stuffs...homeschooling my 4 y/o
<javaguy> working on a linux driver for Intel's AMR...trying to fenagle Gnome into not being such an aweful memory hog
<jcater> well, sounds like you've been lazy... you should've been here to help w/our meaningful conversations w/ chillywilly
<javaguy> configuring wine on my daughter's PC (which is now running Mandrake) so she can play her windows games...
<chillywilly> did you get them working?
<jcater> giving your daughter wine? what kind of homeschooling is this?
<javaguy> do these meaningful conversations have anything to do with using aquatic fauna as bludgeoning instruments?
<jcater> most often
<chillywilly> jcater: don't make me fish slap you
<jcater>  \msg javaguy sometimes he has a masta-complex
<javaguy> \msg jcater speaking of which, where is da masta?
<jcater> suppose ta be here
<jcater> I think his priorities are getting outta line... been catching him spend time w/family too much lately
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<jcater> damn... I knew I should've used deodorant... running ppl off now
<jcater> or is it that trout smell?
<derek> im back
<derek> i apologize our doggie is sick (cancer i think) 
<derek> having some kidney issues
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<javaguy> hey CW.  Welcome back ;)
<chillywilly> tnx
<chillywilly> at lest someone appreciates me
<chillywilly> ;P
Action: ajmitch doesn't know why
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<javaguy> bak
Action: javaguy was watching Gargoyles
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--- Tue Oct 16 2001