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<thierry> hi there
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<derek> sup j dog
<jcater> yo
<jcater> yo=howdy
<derek> jcater: how did you do the pop stuff for hylafax?
<jamest> howdy=ah crap, he's back
<derek> mimetools module?
<derek> ah looks like there is a poplib
<jcater> I may be mistaken
<jcater> I mighta used perl
Action: derek smacks jcater with a 4smelly trout
Action: jcater smacks derek for using color
<derek> damn python is clean
<derek> import getpass, poplib
<derek> M = poplib.POP3('localhost')
<derek> M.user(getpass.getuser())
<derek> M.pass_(getpass.getpass())
<derek> numMessages = len(M.list()[1])
<derek> for i in range(numMessages):
<derek>     for j in M.retr(i+1)[1]:
<derek>         print j
<derek> grabs all the mail from the pop server and prints it console
<jcater> is poplib a builtin module?
<derek> yip
<jcater> damn
<jcater> I shoulda used python
<derek> http://www.python.org/doc/1.6/lib/module-poplib.html
<derek> that is docs for python 1.6 (so it might not have been in 1.5.2) but is surely in newere pythons
<jcater> any response from the pygmy-ites?
<derek> um reading mail now
<derek> ah poplib did NOT exist in 1.5.2 as far as i can tell
<jcater> python trips me out
<jcater> how many other languages include stuff like poplib in their standard distro?
<derek> ok no dice on pygmy mail response
<derek> perl?
<derek> so the todo list for pygmy (god the will love us)
<derek> a. upgrade to python 1.6 or greater (preferably 2.x) to use native libs
<derek> b. implement pop mail
<derek> c. gut gnomism's and move to wxWindows
<jamest> their mime support isn't bad either
<jcater> jamest: you used it?
<jamest> yip
<jamest> I have a dropbox mail account
<jamest> that I see mails too
<jamest> see = send
<jamest> procmail sorts the mails and sends them to filters
<jamest> the filters extract mime attachments and process them
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<jamest> i never could get it working under pearl
<jamest> perl
<jamest> but python was < 1 days work
Action: derek shudders at thought of perl for anything
<jamest> HEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<jamest> Years ago I called in my rooms thermostat was broken
<jamest> the dude came and looked at it and said "I don't know how to work on these" and left
<jamest> today I saw a guy working on one down the hall
<jamest> asked him to look at this one
<jamest> the blower shut off 
<jamest> and for the first time since Oct 96 the heater kicked on
<jamest> it's amazing!
Action: jamest does a happy dance
<jamest> bye bye numb fingers!
<jamest> bad thing is now it's too quiet
<jamest> i don't think I've ever had the blower off before
<jcater> hehe
<jcater> I'm going to use that response
<jcater> "CVS is broken"
<jamest> huh?
<jcater> "I don't know how to work on these"
<jamest> ah
Action: jcater walks off
<jamest> :)
Action: jamest says "see your replacement in a few years"
<jcater> oh, wait
<jcater> I have used that
<jamest> how are input masks looking
Action: jamest has time to gnue today
<jcater> they look great
<jcater> but they don't function very well
<jamest> and one of my users wants them now
<jamest> if there was anything I learned in high school
<jamest> looks are what is most important, the stuff on the inside doesn't matter
<derek> rofl
<jamest> actually, I've found it to be a constant throughout my adult life
<jamest> anyway, anything I can do to assist?
<jcater> jump right in
<jcater> gnue-common/src/FormatMasks
<jcater> mwahahaha
<jcater> just take aspirin BEFORE looking at it
<jamest> you're not going to be playing in there?
<jcater> save yourself some grief
<jcater> I can't today
<jamest> btw - anyone here love taco bell?
<jcater> I'll be gnueing alot tonight 
Action: jamest is thinking back to the SF conversations :)
<jcater> ?
<jamest> taco bell is giving away one XBox per store
<jcater> lol
<jamest> seeing as how Shenmue II is XBox only now
<jamest> and seeing as how Lindsay thinks things like food are more important than Shenmue II
<jamest> I have to eat at taco bell alot over the next week 
<jamest> :)
<jcater> lol
<jcater> mmm
<jcater> yummy
<jamest> derek: of course I only want the XBox so I can port gnuef to it
<jamest> yeah that's it
<jcater> we'll have to port wxWindows to it first
<jamest> hmmm
<jcater> although did you see that wxUniversal link I posted?
<jcater> that rocks
<jamest> no i didn't
<jamest> where did you post it?
<jcater> well, you know wxWindows is basically a wrapper around the OS's native methods
<jcater> well, wxUniversal actually implements the widgets
<jcater> to work on any graphics capable platform
<jamest> that rocks
<jcater> http://www.wxwindows.org/wxuniv.htm
<jamest> wxMGL
<jamest> interesting
<jcater> :)
<jcater> next step, gnuef for Dreamcast
<jcater> strike that, I think we can already do that
<jamest> :)
<jamest> oh my
<jcater> pumpernickel pie
<jamest> FormatMasks is bigger than gnuef!
<jamest> :)
<jcater> sorry
<jcater> it may do more than you were expecting
<jcater> it may be too much
<jamest> what is the feature set?
<jcater> ?
<jamest> is there a doc on what you're shooting for?
<jcater> doc?
<jcater> you gotta be kidding me
<jamest> that thing filled with letters
<jamest> that reflects the state of your mind 
<jamest> usually written about 6 months after the code
<jcater> oh
<jcater> the state of my mind
<jcater> ?
<jcater> open a printer and take out a blank page
<jamest> ...or is that a letter of resignation
<jcater> I've only worked in DateMask so far
<jcater> it's almost functional
<jamest> it seems textMask is just a copy of datamask
<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/DateForms.txt
<jcater> you would be correct
<jcater> I needed something there 
<jcater> to link to elsewhere
<jamest> so what all can she do today
<jcater> formatting pretty much works
<jamest>   can it autocomplete
<jcater> but live inputting doesn't quite work yet
<jamest> i type 10102001
<jcater> including the autocomplete
<jamest> and it types 10/10/2001 in real time?
<jcater> if you pass it 10102001 it will return 10/10/2001
<jcater> or whatever based on the mask
<jcater> BUT 
<jcater> it doesn't do realtime w/typing yet
<jcater> that's what I've been working on
<jamest> in BaseMask?
<jcater> yes
<jcater> there's a class at the bottom
<jamest> so basemask is the guts
<jcater> yes
<jcater> or the 
<jcater> "base" so to speak :)
<jamest> :)
<jamest> so where should/can I start
<jamest> the thing i need
<jamest> is phone numbers, social security numbers
<jamest> where I can leave out the dashes
<jamest> and where it'll fail to let me leave the field if they enter 785555121
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<jamest> for a phone number
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<jamest> that bad eh?
<jamest> <jamest> :)
<jamest> <jamest> so where should/can I start
<jamest> <jamest> the thing i need
<jamest> <jamest> is phone numbers, social security numbers
<jamest> <jamest> where I can leave out the dashes
<jamest> <jamest> and where it'll fail to let me leave the field if they enter 785555121
<jamest> <jamest> for a phone number
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> well, start with the aspirin
<jcater> then decide what markers we want for text strings
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<jcater> You will then need to create the marker classes for each of these
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<jcater> and implement the 2 or 3 methods required by those classes
<chillywilly> wassup dudes
<jcater> yo chillster
<chillywilly> werd
Action: chillywilly is slacking off at work
<chillywilly> mike is slacking with me
Action: jcater sometimes works when I slack off gnue :)
<chillywilly> you do any hacking today?
<jcater> I will tonight
<jcater> but can't today
Action: chillywilly isaway fomr the commit list
<chillywilly> using putty on a laptop
<jcater> there's donuts here at work that requires my complete focus today
<jcater> putty rocks
<dneighbo> jcater rofl
<dneighbo> kk?
<dneighbo> or some 'off brand'
<jcater> local brand
<jcater> really good
<jcater> good=bad for you
<chillywilly> dneighbomasta!!!
Action: dneighbo thinks the gnue shirt for jason will be just like the others
<dneighbo> only on the front
<dneighbo> under the logo it will say
<dneighbo> 'Official AI of GNUe'
<chillywilly> er, masta even
<dneighbo> and on the back in instead of teh catch phrase it will say
<dneighbo> "Powered By Krispy Kreme"
<jcater> rofl
<jcater> that's a joke around here
<jcater> if someone really wants their projet finished quickly
<jcater> they buy me food
<jcater> seriouslyt
<jcater> I have stockpiles of chocolate
<jcater> dneighbo: did I tell you, my son had his cast taken off yesterday!!
<jcater> several weeks early :)
<dneighbo> sweet
<dneighbo> the cast, not the chocolate stockpile
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> both are pretty sweet :)
Action: dneighbo is motivated by caffienated cola and odd foods
<dneighbo> licorice, sun flower seeds, chips
<jcater> :)
<dneighbo> chocolate chip cooks and pizza are my two 'weaknesses'
<jcater> ppl keep snacks at their desks
<dneighbo> er s/cookies/cooks
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<jcater> and when I fix their problems
<jcater> they thro me snacks :)
<jcater> lunch!!!!
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<chillywilly> oops
Nick change: jcater -> jcLunch
<dneighbo> i wonder if we coudl get kk to be an 'official sponsor' of gnue ;)
<chillywilly> kk?
<chillywilly> nevermind
Action: dneighbo jots note to call mtn dew about that too
<dneighbo> kk = killer klowns
<chillywilly> uuuuuh, ok
<dneighbo> or krispy kreme
<chillywilly> thought so
Action: chillywilly whips out a trout and baos da masta
<chillywilly> er, baps
Action: chillywilly is booooooooooored
<chillywilly> we're goint o eat
<chillywilly> cya
<chillywilly> wouldn't wanna be ya
Nick change: chillywilly -> cwLunch
Nick change: cwLunch -> chillywilly
<chillywilly> anyone home?
<dneighbo> um work count?
Action: chillywilly does a little dance
<chillywilly> yea
Action: dneighbo throws a nickel in the hat
<chillywilly> it counts
<chillywilly> thnx dude
<chillywilly> actualy we are on strike because it is friday
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> the national day of no-work
<chillywilly> =)
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> where are you working again?
<dneighbo> i.e. what are you doing agian?
Nick change: jcLunch -> jcater
<dneighbo> 'time to eat the donuts'
<jcater> :)
Action: dneighbo has no idea if memphis had dunkin donuts and the 'donut man' commercial
<jcater> yes
<jcater> but dunkin donuts are only serves at gas stations here
<dneighbo> same here now
Action: dneighbo has taken a liking to grocery store donuts (only albertsons)
<jcater> mm
<jcater> our albertsons (aka seessels) here has the best bakeries
<jcater> has=have
Action: dneighbo doesnt like donuts or ice cream
<dneighbo> BUT only for one reason
<jcater> they sure like me :)
<dneighbo> i REALLY like the taste but if i eat hardly any it makes me sick
<dneighbo> so its like being toruted, one chocolate cake with frosted icing
<dneighbo> and im drooling for number two and three
<jcater> TOP TEN REASONS WHY A DOG IS BETTER THAN A WOMAN:
<jcater> 10. A dog's parents will never visit you.
<jcater> 9. A dog does not throw anything when it is angry. 
<jcater> 8. A dog limits its time in the bathroom to a quick drink.
<jcater> 7. A dog never expects you to telephone.
<dneighbo> but i know if i eat them i will regret it later :)
<jcater> 6. A dog will not get mad at you if you forget its birthday.
<jcater> 5. A dog does not care about the previous dogs in your life.
<jcater> 4. A dog does not get mad at you if you pet another dog.
<jcater> 3. A dog never cares for your bank balance.
<jcater> 2. The later you are, the happier a dog is to see you.
<jcater> 1. A dog does not shop.
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> all true except
<dneighbo> 4. A dog does not get mad at you if you pet another dog.
<dneighbo> our dogs get jealous
<jcater> true
<dneighbo> BUT thats only if you pet another dog in front of them
<dneighbo> you can pet a dog away from them
<dneighbo> and come home smelling like that dog
<dneighbo> and they arent 'jealous'
<dneighbo> the big short coming to that list
<dneighbo> i generally wouldnt want to well um.. make woopie to the dog :)
<jcater> well, in my wife's defense, she wouldn't be jealous if i came home smelling like another woman
<jcater> she might be homicidal though
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> i was gonna say the same thing jealous
<dneighbo> not sure, i'd be dead before i could get the 'reaction'
<jcater> actually, my wife used to be VERY jealous
<jcater> (she used to suspect everyone at work)
<dneighbo> jcater of course the best answer is
<jcater> well, I was fixing a ladies computer
<jcater> and she wore HEAVY perfume
<jcater> I sat in her chair and 
<chillywilly> rofl
Action: chillywilly is working at SimplexGrunnell
<jcater> apparently got her perfume on me
<dneighbo> jcater to derek, what would your wife do if you came home smelling like another woman
<jcater> boy, I caught hell
<dneighbo> derek to jcater, there are other women on this planet?  wow, i just thought some guys dressed a little funny.
<jcater> lol
<jcater> "you mean there are ppl outside of this irc channel?"
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> ppl?
<dneighbo> you mean some life forms have 'bodies' and not 'identities'?
<dneighbo> wow this is like xfiles
<jcater> lol
<jcater> "I thought you all were bots"
<jcater> damn 
<jcater> I'm slipping
<dneighbo> actually that would be funny
<jcater> you all=y'all
<dneighbo> a chat room with all bots that carried on interactive conversation via AI
<dneighbo> it could be a chat room 'detox'
<dneighbo> when needing that irc fix but no one is around go to the 'bot room'
<dneighbo> to get the fix
<dneighbo> you coudl set teh bots to your mood
<jcater> anyone heard from jamest since he looked at my code?
<dneighbo> option 1 - combative
<jcater> I'm afraid he got hurt
<dneighbo> option 2 - agreeable
<dneighbo> option 3 - ignore
<dneighbo> etc
<dneighbo> no i think we should call a medic to cardwell hall
<dneighbo> i think you may have caused serious injury this time
<jcater> well, this was 2 hrs ago
<jcater> um
<jcater> of course he could still be on the floor laughing his butt off
<chillywilly> ???
<jcater> "jcater calls this coding. hahahahahah"
Action: jamest is hiding
<jamest> actually
<jamest> I'm wondering why, after subjecting myself to Taco Bell for 2nd day in a row, the xbox site no longer works w/ konqueror
<jamest> I can almost picture it now
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<jcater> microsoft marketing at its best
<jcater> "best viewed with IE6
<jcater> with best now replaced with "only"
<jcater> you should just buy the xbox
<jcater> w/two controllers
<jcater> and say "honey, I bought it for us... we can spend more time together now"
<jamest> MS Web Koder: Commander. logs detect a non IE browser in acquisition target ks-2002-jan
<jamest> MS Web Master: Kansas is still only a targeted acquisition?  I figured we'd have them in the collective by now.
<jamest> MS Web Koder:  Sir, most of them are too backwater to use computers enough for MS ActiveSubliminal MindControl to have had an effect
<jcater> Commander: Kansas? People actually live there? The satellites only showed wheat and bovine creatures
<jamest> MS Web Master: No matter
<jamest> MS Web Master: What is this non IE browser and any indications on how we can make it incompatible with MS ActiveHTML XP
<jamest> jcater: :)
<jcater> speaking of XP, I love the reaction I get from average users around here...
<jamest> jcater: i will buy it btw if I don't win it, but I can't pass up 1 per store odds
<jcater> "Subscription? Hell, no"
<jcater> "Register? Hell, no"
<jcater> linux will not be the downfall of MS
<jcater> MS-Greed 2002 will be the downfall of MS
<jamest> MS Web Koder:  The system seems impervious to all of our backdoors into the system.  Of course we're getting low on secret backdoor bugs now that we've had to patch most them to stop the code red and friends.  Man, if XP doesn't hit the shelves soon we might have to slip a few new ones into a service pack
<jamest> jcater: agreed
<dneighbo> jcater : yip recall my conversation with Mr_You yesterday?
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> he seemed to think users were too dumb to notice (which normally i agree)
<dneighbo> but when the non techie anchor woman said dont do XP its evil
<dneighbo> i was picking my mouth up off the floow
<dneighbo> er floor
<jcater> everyone I've mentioned it too are appalled by a subscription model
<jcater> they are like "what will we do"
<jcater> "well"
<jcater> "there are other options"
<jcater> :)
<dneighbo> you will be assimilated :)
<jcater> what's cool is I never talk bad about MS's model
<jcater> I just casually mention it
<jcater> and they reach their own conclusion
<jcater> fairly quickly
<dneighbo> yip
<dneighbo> i hand out linux 'tracts'
<dneighbo> telling folks how they are going to m$ subscription hell and that only gnu can save them
<dneighbo> its not very effective, but it sure is fun
<jcater> you zealout, you
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<ra3vat> hello all
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<jamest> hey ra3vat
<jamest> madlocke still arround?
<dneighbo> depends of if you are asking or someone else :)
<reinhard> On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements'
<reinhard> section, it said 'Requires Windows 95 or better'.
<reinhard> So I installed Linux!
<reinhard> lol
<ra3vat> jamest; i think he's still in moscow
<ra3vat> brb
Action: dneighbo invisions ra3vat running through streets of moscow looking for madlocke, only to return and say 'back, yep he is here'
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<jamest> :)
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<dneighbo> wow went to emacs channel for a bit to get emacs help
<dneighbo> and all i can say is wow i learn great stuff
<dneighbo> and then in same breath get appalled at what people use emacs for 
<jcater> we should send the debian ppl there
<dneighbo> you realize that you can use emacs as an AOL AIM client
<jcater> damn
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> doesn't emacs meet the definition of an "operating system"
<dneighbo> i think emacs makes breakfast but i cant get that code to compile
<dneighbo> um yes but that makes richard uneasy
<dneighbo> so please call it a lisp virtual machine instead :)
<jcater> Lisp Operating System via Emacs
<jcater> or, LOSE
<jcater> then the users can be LOSErs
<jcater> j/k
Action: jcater is growing fond of emacs
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> i HATED emacs for about 3 months
<dneighbo> but now im in love
<jcater> I mostly use kate now
<dneighbo> everytime i go 'afdakfjadklfja i wish it did X'
<dneighbo> i go to #emacs and they say it does that just do foo
<dneighbo> and im like darn i love emacs :)
<dneighbo> kate?
<dneighbo> is that like jed?
<dneighbo> i.e. a visual emacs?
<jcater> it's kde's advanced editor
<dneighbo> ah
<jcater> not overly fond of it
<jcater> but it's simple
<jcater> and doesn't start w/a g :)
<dneighbo> neither does emacs :)
<dneighbo> its complete gnome non aware
<jcater> I know
<jcater> I said I was growing fond of it
<ajmitch> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-10-19-011-20-NW-CY-GN
<jcater> IIRC, its even putty aware :)
<jcater> Personally I feel that I and Steve have kept a nice balance using common
<jcater> sense up to this point
<jcater> I kinda agree w/them
<jcater> It's kind of like a kid ignoring his parents... if he doesn't acknowledge what they say, then his parents don't exists
<ajmitch> ello all :)
<jcater> ignoring non-free doesn't help the case :)
<jcater> but what do I know... I'm just a python coder from TN
<ajmitch> Uraeus (christian schaeller) is quite good, not anti-GNU afaik ;)
<dneighbo> jcater steve???
<dneighbo> think i REALLY liiked about emacs
<dneighbo> is it works on windows too
<jcater> steve???
<dneighbo> <jcater> Personally I feel that I and Steve have kept a nice balance using
<dneighbo>           common
<dneighbo> you commenting on the linuxtoday article?
<jcater> yes
<jcater> that was a quote
<dneighbo> did you see the responses on teh mailing list?
<dneighbo> most of them said
<jcater> no
<dneighbo> if stallman wants to write the gnome summary let him write his own
<dneighbo> and he can do what ever he likes with it
<dneighbo> then several people thanked this guy for doing the summary in the first place and stated
<dneighbo> hey its volunteer work, do as you see fit, if we think its out of line we will tell you
<dneighbo> funny thing is i see RMS's point and I see thiers
<dneighbo> to me RMS's point more than anything is 2 prong
<ajmitch> hmm, the gnome summary writer is out at the moment, i often talk to him in #gstreamer
<dneighbo> a. dont give prop any advertising period
<dneighbo> b. dont lend credibility to prop model of development
<dneighbo> which i agree with both, but NOT AT ALL cost
<jcater> BUT by the same token, 
<jcater> the gnome ppl are trying to legitimize their product
<dneighbo> i.e. i saw two arguments
<dneighbo> one was 
<dneighbo> a. we want VARs to know what runs on gnome etc
<dneighbo> b. we want to be honest and give whole picture of whats out there
<dneighbo> now my take
<dneighbo> a IMHO is wrong
<dneighbo> dont give them a lipservice dont encourage VARs with prop software
<dneighbo> however i think its our obligation to be objective so b is ok
<dneighbo> i have tried to do this in most with gnue news
<dneighbo> if there is a story good or bad about our competition in the non free world i think we need to 'report' it
<dneighbo> it only lends credibility to when we say things
<dneighbo> however to say hey use gnue with websphere thats a good thing to do, that would be bad :)
<dneighbo> i liken it to the media
<dneighbo> if all the media does is dog something
<dneighbo> then they loose credibility as they only report on the things that fit their views
<dneighbo> i think its nice to give a 'full' view
<dneighbo> so that when you say things they have value and are not empty
<dneighbo> this is where my argument with RMS comes
<dneighbo> he doesnt feel that way
<dneighbo> anyhow end rant, i can feel gnome's pain :)
<jcater> my take is that this is certain ppl's (RMS's) battle, not everyone... he shouldn't force his ideology on everyone... if you want to fight the fight, then by all means help him... but he shouldn't force others to fight his war
<dneighbo> well i cant agree there
<dneighbo> in the sense that gnome is a gnu project
<dneighbo> he is in charge of the gnu project
<ajmitch> RMS is basically asking a GNU project not to endorse non-free software
<dneighbo> so in a sense it is his domain to request such things
<dneighbo> whether they are wrong or right
<jcater> um
<jcater> I disagree wholeheartedly
<jcater> he is a leader of gnu
<dneighbo> i said 'request' not 'demand'
<jcater> he is NOT gnu
<jcater> he is not master all supreme
<dneighbo> jcater; i agree with that (believe me)
<jcater> but he should have influence, no doubt
<dneighbo> but i dont think this 'request' per say was out of line
<jcater> a good leader leads
<jcater> not forces
<dneighbo> well let me rephrase that
<dneighbo> i think what he is asking is silly
<dneighbo> but i think that his authority extends down to where he should be able to request things
<dneighbo> i.e. if he would have asked this of say samba or some other non gnu project, i would say, he is off his rocker, he has no real domain there, mind his own damn business
<dneighbo> i.e. i disagree about things he is asking gnue to do
<dneighbo> BUT i dont feel he is out of place in 'questioning' or 'requesting' things
<dneighbo> if that makes sense
<dneighbo> i agree the problem i see with FSF now is they are losing credibility in some ways by focusing on things that are not of greatest value building a cohesive whole
<dneighbo> we saw this at LWCE first hand
<jcater> back
<jcater> my underlying problem is he is 
<jcater> alienating his supporters
<jcater> the whole preaching to the converted deal
<dneighbo> yes
<dneighbo> agree 10000%
<dneighbo> too much time spent tearing down people contributing than working on things that are of more importance
<dneighbo> i think this all fallout of the 'opensource' thing
<dneighbo> i dont like term opensource and the movement, but he dropped the ball back then he needs to get over it
<jcater> I still say "those opensource people" are just like us... they are our allies and our friends
<dneighbo> now its like a tirade to try to 'correct' that, and through silly means
<dneighbo> yes
<dneighbo> i agree
<dneighbo> i dont like the name and dont like some of the opinions but im not giong to go out of my way to 'attack them'
<jcater> it's like a baptist saying a methodist is going to hell
<jcater> all over some idealogical difference
<dneighbo> i will attack specific license issues etc, but not the movement or people as a whole thats just silly :)
<dneighbo> jcater: agree
<jcater> (of course, you already know that I'm still not sure if I'm not an opensource camper myself)
<jcater> but that's for practical reasons, not idealogical
<jcater> but that certainly doesn't mean I don't want to help gnue
<jcater> oh, well... back to being productive
<jcater> (...there are still uneaten donuts)
<dneighbo> rofl
Nick change: dneighbo -> dnLunch
<jcater> that's a late lunch
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<chillywilly> isn't it a little late for lunch?
<chillywilly> oh wait masta is in that one time zone
<jcater> still, though... taking a lunch at 1:00
<jcater> I couldn't wait that long
<chillywilly> true dat
<chillywilly> gah, I got tons o'email floodin' in
<chillywilly> Curx theme rox
<chillywilly> er, Crux
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<bth> ? live
<reinhard> bth: yes
<bth> ever run configure for geas?
<reinhard> there is life down here :)
<reinhard> bth: you bet :)
<bth> i tried just; no result
<reinhard> error message?
<bth> no such file or dir
<reinhard> huh?
<reinhard> you downloaded tarball
<bth> ./configure -> same
<reinhard> or you checked out cvs?
<bth> sh ./configure -> same
<bth> command ?
<jcater> I think you have to run ./autogen.sh ??
<bth> no
<bth> Linux ?
<reinhard> bth: how did you get geas?
<bth> download from www
<bth> 0.6
<bth> perhaps wrong linux ver?
<reinhard> no
<reinhard> should work with every version
<reinhard> you stand in the directory geas-0.0.6 ?
<bth> no, i expaned to /usr/local/gnue/appserver
<bth> no, i expanded to /usr/local/gnue/appserver
<bth> redo?
<bth> preferred dir?
<reinhard> what do you mean with "i expanded" ?
<bth> untar
<reinhard> there is a tarball and that contains a single directory
<reinhard> in this directory you should find the configure script
<bth> ok moment
<bth> can i better do CVS?
<reinhard> bth: depends on what you want to do with it
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<bth> first deploy
<reinhard> deploy
<reinhard> ?
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<bth> yes, install, test, smell, use
<reinhard> ah ok
<reinhard> i think 0.0.6 should do it
<reinhard> just change into the correct directory
<reinhard> where the configure script is
<reinhard> what is the directory content of /usr/local/gnue/appserver ?
<bth> i miss something: 1 download tar.gz and then i use winzip throug a samba share
<bth> i gat a tar
<bth> i got a tar dir
<bth> there a tar file
<reinhard> oh
<reinhard> better use tar xvfz geas-0.0.6.tar.gz
<reinhard> to unpack it
<bth> ok
<bth> xvfz? what is the z
<chillywilly> un gzips things
<reinhard> z is for uncompressing it
<reinhard> yes what chilly said
<chillywilly> j is for bzip2
<reinhard> tar xvfz geas-0.0.6.tar.gz
<reinhard> is equivalent to
<bth> what a affwull path i get
<reinhard> gunzip geas-0.0.6.tar; tar xvf geas-0.0.6.tar
<chillywilly> gzip -cd geas-0.0.6.tar | tar zxvf -
<chillywilly> mine is kewler
<chillywilly> :P
<bth> ok unpacked
<chillywilly> er | tar xvf -
<chillywilly> gzip -cd geas-0.0.6.tar | tar xvf -
<chillywilly> I win
<chillywilly> anyway...
<reinhard> bth: ok now you should see a configure in the newly created dir
<chillywilly> wassup reinhard
<bth> yep
<bth> reinhard = germ?
<reinhard> change into that dir and run ./configure
<reinhard> no austria
<bth> time ?
<chillywilly> you are the whole country of austria reinhard?
<chillywilly> hehe
<reinhard> huh? bth: same time as you i guess
<bth> chilly ....
<reinhard> bth: if you are netherlands
<chillywilly> I thought you were an uastrian
<bth> i mixed up with australia
<chillywilly> er, austrian
<bth> whe call it oostenrijk
<reinhard> yep
<reinhard> no cangaroos in austria :)
<bth> RUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!!
<bth> why now?
<bth> because i unpacked with winzip?
<reinhard> yeah
<reinhard> that is the penalty for using non-free software ;)
<bth> ;-)
<reinhard> bth: what distro are you using?
<bth> slackware
<reinhard> cool
<reinhard> another one
<bth> not me, my colleg's
<reinhard> please please report me any problems you face
<jbailey> reinhard: http://www.gnu.org/software/gnulib/gnulib.html
<bth> znx!
<bth> is gne already used anywhere for production?
<dnLunch> yes
Nick change: dnLunch -> derek_
Nick change: derek_ -> dneighbo
<bth> newbie: what is _ ?
<chillywilly> a character on your key board :P
<reinhard> bth: if a name is already taken, some chat clients add a _ at the end
<reinhard> so if you want to be "bth" and that name already exists in the channel
<chillywilly> ak.a., underscore
<reinhard> you are named "bth_" automatically
<bth> funny, how do ui know if glib default in my pakacge is? make asks for glib.h
<dneighbo> try locate glib.h
<bth> searching ~~~~/...
<bth> no!
<bth> not cool anymore
<bth> hereby i, the big bth, reported, no glib is distr....
<chillywilly> you need to install the dev package then
<chillywilly> or install it form source
<chillywilly> from
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-10-19-014-20-PR-HE
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<bth> no www.slackware.org ?
<reinhard> bth: you should have a package in your distribution
<reinhard> that is called glib-devel or glibd
<reinhard> you have to install that
<bth> or glibc.tgz (slakware/d1/) 
<chillywilly> tall see this
<chillywilly> yall
<bth> GNU glibc-2.2.3 This package contains the GNU C libraries and header files. The GNU C library was written originally by Roland McGrath, and is currently maintained by Ulrich Drepper. Some parts of the library were contributed or worked on by other people. The BSD database libraries, no longer officially part of glibc, have been added back by Slackware. You'll need this package to compile programs.
<bth> is this ok?
<chillywilly> nevermind
<reinhard> bth: no
<reinhard> not glibc
<reinhard> glib
<reinhard> this is another library
<bth> its your url
<bth> is this lib for X Win dev ?
<reinhard> it has not directly to do with X
<reinhard> but many projects using X also use glib
<reinhard> especially the complete gnome world
<chillywilly> yuo guys see RMS asking Gnotices not to mention non-free software
<chillywilly> ?
<reinhard> chillywilly: i think there was already some discussion in the logs
<chillywilly> yea, well.....I am too damn lazy to go look for it
<bth> cannot find glib ;-( 
Nick change: chillywilly -> cwAWAY
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<dneighbo> well did my part sent letters t McCain and Kyl(my senators) urging htem to not support the SSSCA
<dneighbo> its just truly evil
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<reinhard> night all
<reinhard> could please somebody else help bth when he returns
<reinhard> i need my beauty sleep ;)
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<bth> sleep softly reinhard
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<cwAWAY> dneighbo: yea, I agree 100%
Nick change: cwAWAY -> chillywilly
<chillywilly> I was trying to get ppl in our LUG together for a letter writing campaign....maybe I should just draft a letter and see if they wanna put their John Hancock on it
<dneighbo> better yet
<dneighbo> draft a letter and print like 50 copies
<dneighbo> leaving the from line blank
<dneighbo> then have them sign at your lug meeting
<dneighbo> and then take and drop in teh mail for them
<dneighbo> more effective than one letter signed by lots of people
<chillywilly> well that's what  mean, but we can all add and/or subtract form it then gte a final agreed upon version...however a bunch of ppl sending the same damn letter looks goofy too
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<jamest> l8r
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<dneighbo> i need a nap bad
<jcater> badly
<chillywilly> what do yall think of RMS and this Gnotices fiasco we are arguing in #gstreamer about it
<chillywilly> Christian is there
<jcater> chillywilly: read today's backlog :)
<chillywilly> grrrrr
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> im with jason read the back log
<chillywilly> whatever you guys suck
<chillywilly> slackers
<chillywilly> hangining out n IRC all day when you should be working
Action: chillywilly trout slaps jcater and dneighbo
<chillywilly> :P
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<jcater> they let anyone in here these days
<chillywilly> sup dude?
<jcater> :)p
<chillywilly> hehe
<mdean> jcater: yeah - look at you! ;-)
<jcater> that's what I'm sayin
<jcater> bigbrother's slippin
<chillywilly> does this mean I shoudl oing flood you off or something?
<chillywilly> ping
<chillywilly> ;P
<ra3vat> mdean: hi, i'm started to translate dcl's messages into yet another language
<jcater> chillywilly: don't make me /ignore you
<jcater> or slap you with a trout
<chillywilly> go ahead
<chillywilly> I like the abuse
<mdean> ra3vat: cool!  more work for me ;-)
<jcater> mdean: you finish my suggestions yet?
<jcater> :)
<mdean> jcater: nope - I'm reworking the classes for better separation at the moment
<chillywilly> masta why you going to disney land and yet you go and write your congress ppl about SSSCA
<chillywilly> don't you know disney is the evil bastards who bought the SC congressman pushing this thing
<mdean> and back in the DivX days, Disney said they would only release their movies on DivX
<mdean> till it died
<mdean> I'm sure Walt would be proud...
<jcater> disney is also one of the major reasons copyright no longer expires after 50-75 yrs
<jcater> but can be "extended"
<jcater> by now, steamboat mickie should be public domain
<ra3vat> mdean: have some questions better to send by email
<jcater> of course, disney channel keeps my kid appeased long enough for me to GNUe occasionally :)
<mdean> ra3vat: ok
<chillywilly> well I have been officially boycotting them for a while being a southern baptist an dall
<chillywilly> and all
<jcater> well, I won't go there
<jcater> I'm for freedom for all
<chillywilly> you won't go there?!?
<chillywilly> they were gonna give gay couples insurance, yet unmarried staight ppl don't get it
<jcater> um
<jcater> that's not the southern baptist argument :)
<chillywilly> well of course not, but I don't think any christians are going to condone that action
<chillywilly> jcater: who is Steve?
<jcater> that was a quote from the link derek posted
<ajmitch> chillywilly: it's a quote
Action: jcater cut and pasted w/o using '"'
<jcater> bad jcater
Action: chillywilly trout slaps jc
<chillywilly> I have enough things confusing me without you adding to it man ;P
<jcater> I can tell
<jcater> =)
<chillywilly> and of course you diagree with RMS
<chillywilly> whata a surprise!!!
<chillywilly> I am shocked!!!
<jcater> not true
<chillywilly> dismayed
<chillywilly> befuddled
<jcater> I disagree w/his methods, not his message
<jcater> but if I didn't, whom would you argue with?
<jcater> see, I'm doing you and your wife a favor... you get to take all your frustrations out with me :)
<chillywilly> neilt ;)
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> neilt has been there for a while too
<chillywilly> :P
<ra3vat> jcater: having problem with form that connects to postgresql
<jcater> what error are you getting?
<ra3vat> DB000:     dbdriver = __import__("gnue/common/dbdrivers/%s/DBdriver" % (driver))DB000:   File "/home/ds/gnue_unstable/gnue/gnuef/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/dbdrivers/postgresql/DBdriver.py", line 43, in ?
<ra3vat> DB000:     raise GConnections.AdapterNotInstalled, "Driver not installed: pygresql for PostgreSQL [%s]" % message
<ra3vat> DB000: AttributeError: AdapterNotInstalled
<ra3vat> too much postgresql drivers
<jcater> have you installed pygresql from www.druid.net/pygresql?
<jcater> forms is not seeing it
<chillywilly> jcater: only thing is how can you say Open Source is our friend when they don't have the goals, they don't care if software is non-free, they're only in it for the practical benefits....what have  we got left if we don't have freedom
<chillywilly> certain Open Source ppl do care though....I see them as just misguided
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> I see more Open Source ppl who do care than who don't
<jcater> you read my arguments
<jcater> no need to restate :)
<chillywilly> and also to counter masta's argument if you do not help the misguided few then they will eventually succumb to the enemy one way or another
<jcater> as far as I'm concerned, it's not a GOOD vs EVIL fight
<jcater> it's an ethical delima
<chillywilly> ummm, with SSSCA is it
<jcater> um
<chillywilly> no more Free Software, no more Open Source
<chillywilly> bye bye
<ra3vat> jcater: isn't it included into most postgresql package
<jcater> I know NO opensource ppl who support SSSCA
<jcater> so what is your argument?
<chillywilly> OS is not evil
<chillywilly> but misguided
<chillywilly> haven't you been paying attention?
Action: chillywilly slaps jc with a trout
<chillywilly> :P
<jcater> ra3vat: it is in the postgresql CVS tree, but is not automatically installed with postgresql
<jcater> ra3vat: did you install postgresql from source or from a package?
<chillywilly> I am more liberal about them right now anyway, I think there is room to work together and GNU does take it too far at times
<ra3vat> from package
<jcater> then I think you need to install pygresql separately
<jcater> :(
<jcater> chillywilly: that's all I'm saying
<jcater> chillywilly: didn't you see my baptist vs methodist argument?
<ra3vat> what the version of pygresql would you recommend?
<chillywilly> also the real leader of OS is NOT someone like VA Linux or ESR as they don't give a rats ass about closed code, heck they are now selling ti themselves....Bruce Perens on the other hand is a man I like and a real leader
<jcater> ra3vat: try the latest released version
<jcater> ra3vat: I think their CVS install is broken
<ra3vat> ok
<jcater> (at least it was last I checked)
<jcater> ra3vat: by the way, pygresql requires mxDateTime
<ra3vat> what files will pygresql place into python/site-packages?
<ra3vat> jcater: test as written in pygresql/README is work right now
<jcater> pg.py, pgdb.py
<ra3vat> and whats _pg.so or _pgmodule.so?
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-10-19-011-20-NW-CY-GN-0049
<jcater> ah
<jcater> those are the C libraries
<jcater> used by pg.py
<jcater> forgot about those
<chillywilly> this guys sums it up perfectly
<chillywilly> RMS is not tryinto control ppl's speech
<ra3vat> jcater: do we need both at the same time?
<chillywilly> omg!
<dneighbo> to all ;disney is a greedy monopolistic pig; i agree now tell my children they cant go to disneyland :)
<chillywilly> someone is comparing FSF to the taliban
<chillywilly> dneighbo: I told mine
<jcater> ra3vat: I'm not sure, but I would leave both there
<jcater> dneighbo: lol
<dneighbo> also for what its worth I hold congress responsible for things like SSSCA even if it was purchased by a 'corporation'
<chillywilly> dneighbo: the lack of disneyland is not going to make their lives unfullfilling
<dneighbo> chillywilly i had purchased vacation before i knew of SSSCA as well
<chillywilly> dneighbo: now christ on the other hand is another thing ;)
<dneighbo> if it would cost me 800 to cancel and hadnt promised the kids we woudl probably be doing sea world or lego land instead
<dneighbo> er s/would/wouldnt
<chillywilly> dneighbo: yes, but christians should've been boycottgin them for other reasons anyway, you know how much crap I have been giving my mom for buying disney videos
<chillywilly> :P
<dneighbo> i dont buy into the 'disney video conspiracy' personally
<jcater> :P
<dneighbo> as to 'gays and benefits' etc etc etc
<dneighbo> im a libertarian
<chillywilly> oh gawd
<dneighbo> that works in my walk with Christ as well
<dneighbo> i never once saw Christ DEMAND anything
<chillywilly> http://www.spectacle.org/897/finkel.html
<dneighbo> God gives people free will if they choose to make bad decisions thats their loss
<chillywilly> who is demanding something?
<chillywilly> tell me
<jcater> chillywilly: christ is the most tolerant of all... why can't we live by his example?
<dneighbo> um people that say we wont go to disneyland cause you like gays is 'demanding' they change thier policy
<dneighbo> by the way i have no problems 'boycotting' things for moral reasons
<dneighbo> just saying that to me whether a company supports gays or not is not all that important to me
<chillywilly> hey I tolerate ppl I will not condone what they are doing and allow them benefits that others don't get
<dneighbo> many i see it like the RMS things
<dneighbo> a few zealots are zeroing in on this one thing
<dneighbo> if they wanted to REALLY go after something
<jcater> btw, disney never said they "like gays", but that if the state deemed a gay marriage legal, then married partners are entitled to equal benefits, gat or not
<dneighbo> go after violence, sex, etc in movies in general that is MUCH more harmful
<jcater> dneighbo: right on!
<jcater> mickey mouse and bear in the big blue house aren't
<jcater> teaching my child to go beat someone senseless
<dneighbo> to state my position i am absolutely 100% behind the fact that gay lifestyle is sin
<dneighbo> HOWEVER i dont choose to persecute someone based on their sin
<chillywilly> doesn;t matter what sorta package you put it on it, crap still is crap no matter how you paclage it
<dneighbo> or i wouldnt have anyone to interact with including myself
<chillywilly> package
<dneighbo> i hope that makes sense, if not i cant put it more plainly
<jcater> chillywilly: by the way, I'm the same way... but humans are still humans are we are commanded to love our neighbor
<jcater> (even if his first name is derek)
<jcater> it's not our place to judge
<dneighbo> yeah love your 'neighbors'
<dneighbo> in fact give your 'neighbors' money, cars, jewelry and other stuff too ;)
<chillywilly> I never said that, however even without the gay issues why can't all "couples" then get insurance it is also not fair that way
<chillywilly> it is a crummy deal either way
<dneighbo> chillywilly now you are talking about something that has NOTHING to do with morals and everything to do with economics
<jcater> chillywilly: then boycott the society that deems one a valid marriage and the other just an "unmarried ppl"
<jcater> chillywilly: not disney
<dneighbo> i.e. its the insurance industry that puts the restrictions on what is 'valid' for insurance
<dneighbo> and i can tell you its not because they are thinking marriage is some sacred holy vow
<dneighbo> basically i think the government and insurance at one time agreed it was the 'right' thing to do to include 'spouses' (which at that time was a pretty clear cut definition)
<dneighbo> now that is a much more muddied definition
<jcater> hmmm... too many donuts
Action: dneighbo digs jcater up a nice big bottle of pecid ac
<dneighbo>  /dcc jcater antiacid
<jcater> sorry, nat connection
<chillywilly> well you have a point and I am sick of arguing so
<jcater> try echo "here it is"|mutt -a antiacid -s "howdy" jcater@gnue
<jcater> .org
<chillywilly> dneighbo: did you enjoy my link?
<chillywilly> libertarianism makes no sense because you need gov't and you cannot scale it back to what it wss as times have changed....btw, how can you be a libertarian and work for the gov't?
<jcater> chillywilly: my problem with that link is RMS is saying the editors of that newsletter "cannot" (um, restriction?) mention non-free software, he is not saying he disagrees with them.
<jcater> btw, that article was pointing out stupidity of some other posters
<chillywilly> nope, they took it out of context imho
<chillywilly> you really think someone who believes in freedom would want to limit free speech?
<jcater> well, don't go there
<jcater> I still think the GPL is too restrictive to be about "freedoms"
<jcater> I maintain that the GPL is about ethics and moral obligations
<jcater> but we can agree to disagree :)
<chillywilly> well those damn murder laws are restrictig my freedom too
<chillywilly> oh and these tax laws too
<jcater> yes they are
<jcater> did you read what I said?
<jcater> I maintain that the GPL is about ethics and moral obligations
<jcater> as are laws
<jcater> that's my point of view... you don't have to agree
<chillywilly> well this is like saying to constitution is not about freedom either
<jcater> I was not shooting down the GPL in ANY way, I was giving you my interpretation
<chillywilly> absolute freedom just is not possible
<jcater> chillywilly: IMHO most laws in the US are unconsitutional :)
<jcater> chillywilly: but that's another debate for another time :)
<chillywilly> we need a defintion and a base that is agreed upon and all OSD, DFSG, and OSI approved licenses are Free
<chillywilly> er, compliant
<jcater> I thought we had that?
<chillywilly> so how is the GPL non-free according to the known and agreeed upon definitions?
<jcater> wtf are you talking about?
<chillywilly> you said GPL was not about freedom
<chillywilly> you need to define freedom for me
<jcater> I DID NOT SAY THE GPL WAS NON-FREE
<dneighbo> hold up
<chillywilly> based on those definitions
<dneighbo> i agree with jcater
<chillywilly> it is Free
<jcater> I DID NOT SAY THE GPL WAS NON-FREE
<jcater> let me repeat that
[18:42] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<jcater> I DID NOT SAY THE GPL WAS NON-FREE
<dneighbo> like the constitution the GPL gives a HELL OF A LOT OF FREEDOM
<dneighbo> but its not 100% free
<dneighbo> it limits freedoms where moral imperatives are more important
<chillywilly> yes, no argument there
<dneighbo> such is constitution
<dneighbo> like your murder example
<jcater>  chillywilly: I said "I maintain that the GPL is about ethics and moral obligations, not freedom"
<dneighbo> one persons right to life is more important than anothers freedom to take it
<dneighbo> i think if you compare the two they are similar
<dneighbo> ex:
<dneighbo> the bill of rights gives us certain 'unalienable' rights
<chillywilly> why does that not work with abortion then?
<dneighbo> like right ot life etc
<dneighbo> we restrict 'freedoms' that infringe on those rights
<dneighbo> so the GPL has 4 core freedoms
<chillywilly> yep
<chillywilly> dneighbo: this is exactly how I argue it all the time
<dneighbo> and it restricts freedoms that infringe upon those
<dneighbo> if you do, i dont know why you are arguing with jcater as that is what he seems to be saying :)
<dneighbo> unless i am grossly misinterpreting
<jcater> dneighbo: I think you understand me
Action: jcater is not as articulate as dneighbo
<chillywilly> he said GPL is not about freedom, but now you are  saying that practicsl implementable freedom has to have some restrictions
<dneighbo> perhaps his wording made it offensive
<dneighbo> but i think his point was not so much that freedom has no place wrt GPL
<dneighbo> but rather moral/ethical imperatives OVERRIDE freedom
<dneighbo> and when you think about it literally that means its not about freedom, freedom is just a by product
<chillywilly> freedom is the ethical and moral imperative isn't it?
<jcater> chillywilly: I was merely stating that TO ME the GPL's main tenet is the ethical and moral responsibilities of software writers. I was not saying that your "freedoms" do not fall under that
<dneighbo> as you can say its ethical/moral in stature only
<jcater> chillywilly: now you are sounding like a libertarian :)
<dneighbo> but if you morals/ethics say its wrong to be bound/chained/opressed then by default you are for freedom :)
<chillywilly> jcater: er, no
<dneighbo> i agree with jason as would RMS i think
<chillywilly> I am not a libertarian
<dneighbo> the GPL is about doing the morally correct/ethical thing
<chillywilly> I am Daniel Baumann
<dneighbo> rms based his ideals on fact ti was wrong to deny society technology and opress them
<chillywilly> yes
<dneighbo> i really must run
<dneighbo> ttfn
<chillywilly> bye
<dneighbo> i will be back later
<jcater> later
<chillywilly> ok
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<chillywilly> I am hungry too
<jcater> chillywilly: you know you love me :)
<chillywilly> I do love you
<chillywilly> I love everyone
<chillywilly> as best I can
<jcater> rofl
<chillywilly> why si that funny
<chillywilly> I am human too
<chillywilly> not an AI :P
<jcater> "as best I can"
<chillywilly> can you ask for anything more?
<jcater> I thought you were implying that it's tough to love someone like me, but you try "the best you can" :)
<jcater> I was not laughing at you
<chillywilly> if I were Jesus I could whole heartedly love everyone
<chillywilly> but sorry dude
<chillywilly> I am far from that
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-10-19-011-20-NW-CY-GN-0053
<chillywilly> see this person is a misguided open sourcer
<chillywilly> it ias not about better software
<chillywilly> it's about freedom
<chillywilly> the software could suck....I'd still rather have freedom as then you can make it not suck then...and this is exactly what happens anyway
<jcater> chillywilly: my only point earlier is that he is not the enemy
<chillywilly> freedom is practical :P
<chillywilly> no, he is not
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<chillywilly> hey javaguy
<jcater> speaking of misguided souls...
<jcater> :)
<jcater> howdy javaguy
<javaguy> hey Jason, CW
<chillywilly> hiya
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-10-19-011-20-NW-CY-GN-0054
<javaguy> masta floatin' about?
<jcater> just left
<jcater> will be back later
<chillywilly>  It's insane to compare RMS with the Taliban. If you can't distinguish between supporters of terrorists and a Free Software advocate you better shut up. Or are you also willing to start a war against RMS ?
<chillywilly> Fred 
<javaguy> figures...
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-10-19-011-20-NW-CY-GN-0056
<javaguy> who's comparing RMS to Taliban?
<chillywilly> RMS requested that Gnotices not promote Free Softwarewhen they mentioned Star Office on the site
<chillywilly> ppl are going ape shit now
<chillywilly> and taking it out of context
<chillywilly> LinuxToday article on it
<jcater> I would never compare RMS to the taliban... now, Hitler, maybe :)
<chillywilly> dewd
<chillywilly> bad jcater
<chillywilly> :P
<javaguy> Makes sense.  Gnome is, after all, a GNU project, in theory at least
<chillywilly> er, I mean that they not promote non-free software
<jcater> chillywilly: that was a joke... however, he is pushing for ethnic (software) cleansing, monopolistic control over his followers, and he would look nice in red clothing :)
<javaguy> would be kinda like GNUe promoting SAP software
<chillywilly> exactly
<chillywilly> hold on
<jcater> javaguy: actually, RMS is ragging us for mentioning SAP and such on our site
<chillywilly> 15:56:17] <ajmitch> ok, i guess
<chillywilly> [15:56:26] <ajmitch> in a way it's reaching a bit too far
<chillywilly> [15:56:50] <ajmitch> but i can see where he's coming from
<chillywilly> [15:57:56] <ajmitch> man i need more RAM ;)
<javaguy> Now I don't see a problem with links to say OpenOffice
<jcater> even though we are not "promiting it"
<chillywilly> [15:58:30] <chillywilly> plz
<chillywilly> [15:58:50] <chillywilly> I agree with RMS why should they promote non-free software...this is supposed to be a GNU project
<chillywilly> [15:59:13] <chillywilly> it would be like GNUe saying oooh there's a new release of SAP go download it
<chillywilly> [15:59:45] <chillywilly> just plain stupid and contrary to our freedom....no RMS is NOT gonna be able to force anyone to do anything about it
<chillywilly> jcater: since when?
<jcater> um, talk to derek
<jcater> you think I'm kidding, but I'm not
<chillywilly> yes, but I need more details to make a judgement
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> depends ont he situation and cricumstances
<chillywilly> if it is similar to gnotices then I would agree he should complain
<chillywilly> oh man
<jcater> his position is very somple
<jcater> simple
<jcater> we should not mention a non-free piece of software, even if we are pointing out why gnue is better
<chillywilly> they are trying to talk tech on this show and they sound like morons
<jcater> as just mentioning it is inheritly giving them press
<jcater> bbs
Nick change: jcater -> jcFood
<javaguy> does that make Jason edible?
<javaguy> CW: you got a gnuef provider for GEAS working?
<chillywilly> a driver?
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> jamest was supposed to get it working
<chillywilly> jcFood would know if it is working
<javaguy> I'll be working on a provider for J2EE.  Was kinda hoping to use the GEAS provider as a model... ;)
<chillywilly> J2EE?!?
<chillywilly> that's against GNUe religion ;)
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<chillywilly> don't let da mastahearyou say that either ;)
<chillywilly> ah well I need to hack now
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<javaguy> Actually, it was da masta's idea...
<chillywilly> oh man
<chillywilly> we will have to beathim then
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> If "Free" software isn't even free from its own leader, is it free at all?
<chillywilly> interesting question
Action: javaguy is browsing JBoss documentation
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-10-19-011-20-NW-CY-GN-0077
<chillywilly> I like this analogy best
<chillywilly> you should give that one a read javaguy
<javaguy> checking it out...
<chillywilly> man I can't believe my mom never came home
<chillywilly> I gotta go find something to eat now :P
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<ra3vat_> >>> import pg
<ra3vat_> >>> import pgdb as SIG2api
<ra3vat_> Traceback (most recent call last):
<ra3vat_>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
<ra3vat_>   File "pgdb.py", line 61, in ?
<ra3vat_>     import DateTime
<ra3vat_>   File "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/DateTime/__init__.py", line 85, in ?
<ra3vat_>     from DateTime import DateTime
<ra3vat_>   File "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/DateTime/DateTime.py", line 90, in ?
<ra3vat_>     import sys, os, math, regex, ts_regex, DateTimeZone
<ra3vat_> ImportError: No module named ts_regex
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<ra3vat_> jcFood: what DateTime is this? mx or what?
<jcFood> yes
<jcFood> mx
<ra3vat_> jcFood: as I have site-packages/DateTime and site-packages/mx/DateTime both
<jcFood> and it gives you an error?
<ra3vat_> that ts_regex it is included in some version of ...
<jcFood> ts_regex?
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<javaguy> hey AJ
<ra3vat_> jcater: did you see error i've posted?
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_> >>> import pg
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_> >>> import pgdb as SIG2api
<jcater> ra3vat_: I did not see the error message
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_> >>> import pg
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_> >>> import pgdb as SIG2api
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_> Traceback (most recent call last):
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_>   File "pgdb.py", line 61, in ?
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_>     import DateTime
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_>   File "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/DateTime/__init__.py", line 85, in ?
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_>     from DateTime import DateTime
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_>   File "/usr/lib/python2.0/site-packages/DateTime/DateTime.py", line 90, in ?
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_>     import sys, os, math, regex, ts_regex, DateTimeZone
<ra3vat_> <ra3vat_> ImportError: No module named ts_regex
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-10-19-015-20-NW-LL-0001
<jcater> ra3vat_: are you using Zope also?
<ra3vat_> jcater: probably it's installed
<jcater> ah
<jcater> http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/db-sig/575668
<chillywilly> SSSCA is gonna be discussed on the release of winblows XP
<chillywilly> coiincidence?
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<javaguy> well, it's my turn to get something to eat...
Action: javaguy is away: dinner
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<ra3vat_> jcater: thanks, got it working
<jcater> cool
<jcater> what did you end up doing?
<ra3vat_>  end up doing?
<jcater> what did you do to get it working?
<jcater> how did you fix the ts_regex error?
<ra3vat_> problem was
<ra3vat_> with that DateTime module that comes with Zope
<jcater> ok
<ra3vat_> as written in the message you gave me a link to
<jcater> did you remove the zope module?
<jcater> ... I want to add this to our FAQ
<ra3vat_> just renamed it for now
<jcater> ok
<ra3vat_> will try again to install mxDateTime from tgz
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Action: jcater wants to SCREAM!!!
<jcater> someone please shoot me
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Action: chillywilly shoots jcater dead
<jcater> chillywilly: thank you!
<chillywilly> jcater: your welcome
<jcater> My wife wanted to work late, so I thought, great.. I'll GNUe
<jcater> well, my brother-in-law finally moved out last night
<jcater> but he came over at 7:00 to get more stuff
<jcater> he has been playing on the damn Nintendo system for 2 1/2 hours!!!!!!
<jcater> !!!!!
<jcater> and hasn't moved a friggin thing
<jcater> hmmm... where's my gun???
<chillywilly> your brother-in-law was living with you?
<jcater> yes
<jcater> my brother and brother in law
<jcater> I got an apartment for them both
<chillywilly> so 3 guys?
<jcater> and my brother has been there for 2 months
<jcater> yup
<jcater> they both are in college
<jcater> and both my parents and my wife's parents live out of area
<jcater> so we were being "good" relatives
<jcater> I decided it was worth me renting an apartment for them :)
<jcater> but he owns every friggin console system you can imagine
<jcater> and it gets annoying
<chillywilly> so give him a good whack with a trout
<jcater> I have no trout
<jcater> I have frozen fish fillets
<jcater> hmmm
Action: jcater runs to the freezer
<jcater> frozen fish is even better than fresh fish :)
<chillywilly> uuuuuuh, no
<jcater> ?
<chillywilly> you said frozen fish was better and I said no :P
<jcater> why not?
<chillywilly> I dunno
<chillywilly> because I like to argue
Action: chillywilly cannot eat fish, he's allergic to it
<jcater> icky
<jcater> all fish?
<ra3vat_> does better mean tastier in here?
<jcater> ra3vat_: no... we are joking about hitting people with fish... I said frozen fish is better to hit people with :)
<ra3vat_> :)
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--- Sat Oct 20 2001