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<ajmitch> hi psu
<psu> hi aj
<psu> just doing the morning mail-drop
<psu> thought I'd check in
<psu> & see what chillywilly's been saying about me
<psu> in my absence ;-)
<ajmitch> how's KC GNUe going? ;)
<psu> Spent about an hour on it last night
<ajmitch> cool
<psu> got all of three IRC "threads" summarised
<ajmitch> chillywilly wasn't too nasty ;)
<ajmitch> ok
<psu> the day I worry about abuse from cw 
Action: ajmitch will have to learn how to hide on IRC ;)
<psu> is the day I have a severe sense of humour failure
<ajmitch> haha
<psu> d'you think he reads the back logs too?
<psu> I suspect I may be summarising too much
<psu> three short paras for 4 days' logs
<ajmitch> dunno
<ajmitch> where are the logs again?
<psu> but I can't really count trout-slapping as "development discussions"
<ajmitch> i just leave xchat connected all the time & read stuff in the morning if i feel like it ;)
<psu> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/irc-logs/
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> i gotta help out with GNUe soon...
<ajmitch> i've lurked here too long w/o helping ;)
<psu> I wanted to do something - jumped at the KCs when it was suggested
<ajmitch> i'm more of a developer
<ajmitch> i suck at writing stuff like docs ;)
<psu> The most ambitious "programming" I've ever done is some simple SQL select/update
<psu> doesn't really count
<ajmitch> heh
<psu> Do people still describe themselves as "HTML Programmers"?
<psu> And do they still get flamed for it?
<ajmitch> unfortunately some people do
<ajmitch> and they still get flamed; )
<psu> probably deserve it
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> i'm an html programmer - i use python to make html pages ;)
<psu> I'm going to get some official training at work on writing web pages
<psu> so I can put internal project docs on the intranet
<ajmitch> http://ajmitch.dhis.org/dotgnu/
<ajmitch> a far better looking irc logs page :)
<psu> that should be a laugh ... been writing HTML since 1995
<ajmitch> heh
<psu> the hard way - in text editors
<ajmitch> i guess i have been as well
<ajmitch> text editors are the best way to do it, especially if you're a programmer ;)
<psu> (cue Monty Python "got up in the middle of the night..." joke)
<psu> To be fair, I do need to be told about corporate templates, approval procedures, etc. etc.
<ajmitch> yeah
<psu> all the stuff I don't have to worry about 
<psu> for personal pages
<psu> aj - that's one fine looking irc logs page
<ajmitch> i'm the sort of person that writes those templates & stuff for personal pages :)
<ajmitch> psu: a simple python hack
<ajmitch> i wrote a script for making directory listings
<psu> interesting - your logs are pure text
<psu> gnue ones are HTML
<ajmitch> yep
<psu> not sure which I prefer - doesn't make much difference I suppose
<ajmitch> they're just dumped out by eggdrop, the irc bot
<psu> not as if the gnue ones are particularly formatted
<ajmitch> couldn't be bothered writing something to htmlize them ;)
<psu> fair enough
<psu> "I am a fairy. My name is Nuff. Fairy Nuff."
<ajmitch> i might
<ajmitch> heh
<psu> I did suggest 
<psu> jigging the HTML log files 
<ajmitch> the gnue logs look like plain text to me
<psu> oops 
<psu> you're night.
<psu> right even
<ajmitch> think i should make mine into html logfiles?
<psu> only reason I can think off
<psu> is if you are going to put extra hrefs if
<ajmitch> nah
<psu> e.g. on the gnue logs
<psu> if we put an <a name = "001">, <a name = "002"> every 20 lines
<ajmitch> yeah
<psu> it'd mean I could hyperlink from Kernel Cousins to specific parts of the log
<psu> rather than just the whole day
<psu> Frankly, I'm not sure it's worth it
<ajmitch> that'd be easy enough to do
<psu> I will try to include a real quote from each point anyway
<ajmitch> just a cgi script that wraps the actual logfiles
<psu> and people can use their Find function in their favourite browser to go right to it
<psu> even with a <a name = "nnn"> every 20 lines 
<ajmitch> and returns the text with it wrapped in html sugar, and having <a> tags interspersed
<psu> i'm still unlikely to hit the first line of a discussion exactly
<psu> (even assuming you can tell where something as 
<psu> nebulous as an "IRC thread" starts)
<psu> aj - you could put in "cute" icons every time someone gets netsplit ;-)
<ajmitch> psu: haha
<psu> anyway gotta go now
<psu> earn a crust
<psu> cu l8ter
<ajmitch> k ;)
<ajmitch> bye
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<dtm> hi
<dtm> ajmitch: how are things in .nz
<ajmitch> hi
<ajmitch> boring ;)
<dtm> oh?
<dtm> whyzat
<ajmitch> at the moment - wet
<dtm> dontcha got no stuff blowin up er nuthin?
<ajmitch> dtm: yeah, i'm meant to be studying for exams
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> nz is such a boring place to be ;)
<ajmitch> how's your stuff going?
<dtm> but
<dtm> i watched the movie "once were warriors"
<dtm> and it was very exciting
<dtm> and sickening
<ajmitch> heh, yeah, it is a bit like that
<dtm> terrifyingly violent, etc
<dtm> dysfunctional, etc
<dtm> aren't you that way?
<dtm> do you live in a car?
<ajmitch> nope ;)
<dtm> just chekcing
<dtm> oh , ok
<dtm> i can dig it
<dtm> are you from a tribe?
<dtm> coz that would be awesome.
<dtm> with tattoos and stuf.f
<ajmitch> i live in a closet
<dtm> i should get some of those.
<ajmitch> nope, i'm of european descent
<dtm> ajmitch: can I be in your trib eplease?  does your tribe have a url?
<dtm> please?
<ajmitch> i got a friend who's samoan - he's got tatoos on about a third of his body ;)
<ajmitch> dtm: uhmm....
<ajmitch> dtm: sorry ;)
<dtm> puhleez.
<dtm> ok
<dtm> that's cool
<dtm> is he in your tribe
Action: ajmitch is not in a tribe ;)
<dtm> i found a book with pictures of your people in it
<dtm> well they're from some island.
<dtm> and they have huge breasts
<dtm> most of them
<dtm> lots of tattoos 
<ajmitch> my people?
<dtm> very dark
<dtm> yeah from your tribe
<ajmitch> heheh
<dtm> with the body art
<dtm> very offended about the "white people"
<dtm> killing them, stealing their trademarks, etc
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<dtm> very big problem.
<dtm> very rude.
<dtm> thou shalt not coveteth thine tribal neighbors' IP
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<sevik> i sgeas really thread safe?
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<chillywilly> wassup?
<chillywilly> anyine home?
<chillywilly> er, anyone even
<sevik> so, can I create thread in geas, and do periodically somethiins usefull ?
<sevik> in python i mean
<chillywilly> er?
<chillywilly> GEAS is single threaded right now
<sevik> so better compile python without thread module?
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<jamest> hey andru
<chillywilly> geas is not thread-safe
<andru> hello
<andru> morning
<andru> how are you?
<jamest> is this the andru I think it is
<andru> yyip
<jamest> have you been in channel lately and I not notice?
<andru> No
<jamest> or you just stopping by?
<andru> not really
<jamest> ah
<andru> just stopped by
<andru> i saw a link to forms so popped in
<jamest> have you looked at the work neilt and reinhard have been pouring into geas?
<andru> damn internet will lead you everywhere
<jamest> lol
<chillywilly> nah, iy just leads you to porn sites :P
<andru> i saw version 0.0.6 realeas but i havn't checked out code
<chillywilly> s/iy/it
<andru> still coding hard jamest?
<jamest> hardly coding actually
<andru> why not?.
<andru> slacker
<jamest> I'm hoping to get back in this weekend 
<andru> who said you could stop coding?
<jamest> time.  I've got 2 jobs, going to school, and taking taekwondo
Action: jamest is spread a little too thin
<andru> i returned to coding a couple of months ago. got a bunch of young people to do my other jobs
<jamest> :)
<jamest> you still working on a UI for geas
<jamest> ?
<andru> kindaof
<jamest> the geas driver is my current forms project
<andru> I got got sick of ges so restart writing bits of it
<jamest> really
<andru> geas not ges there
<andru> Yeah it wasn't fast and was doing bizare things to my records.
<jamest> you ought to look at geas in cvs
<andru> So i started replacing parts in it
<jamest> it's had major overhauls (from my understanding)
<jamest> it still doesn't some really odd shit (pardon my french)
<jamest> but that stuff is on the todo list
<andru> yeah.
<jamest> doesn't = does
<chillywilly> geas sucks
<chillywilly> :P
<jamest> see chillywilly, it's ok for you to say that as you put code into it IIRC
<andru> I dont actually have much geas code left , as i kept writing stuff over a month or so
<andru> and at the end of the month it wasn't much around anymore
<jamest> you still doing objectserver stuff?
<jamest> or 2-tier
<jamest> or other
<andru> kinda 2-teir
<andru> Its 2-teir but with an OO wrapper
<andru> it could easily be made 3-teir but i need performace and stablitiy so ignored 3tier for moment
<andru> its about 4000 times faster than geas
<andru> and it doesn't shag my data
<andru> i was consdiering putting up a project for it tongith
<jamest> i think the major issues w/ geas (in my limited tested) was the use of temporary tables while building query structures
<jamest> seemed like major overkill
<andru> debating wether the open source commiunty really needs another database wraper
<jamest> but i've been out of touch for about 6 months
<jamest> er, weeks
<chillywilly> andru do you have a copy of the ODMG book/spec?
<jamest> so they may have fixed that
<andru> jamest: yeah i really hate the temporary tables use. told andrewm not to use them when he was working on it but he did it anyway. grr
<jamest> :)
<andru> chillywilly: i dont own books that are less than a hundred years old
<jamest> andru: you coding in C still?
<andru> Yes
<andru> and nothing else
<chillywilly> yes he cares about performance :P
<andru> though i'm thinking of using or developing a lisp langauge for some of this lanaguge genration stuff i'm playing with
<chillywilly> I think a python app server would be worse than the current geas
<andru> well should i release another database wrapper libary for linux?
<chillywilly> gnu/linux
<andru> quite your whinning chillywilly and answer the question
<chillywilly> no one is whining
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<chillywilly> andru you have a db abstraction layer?
<andru> yes
<chillywilly> bring it on then :P
<andru> and it can be slid in as a straight replacement for geas
<chillywilly> I don't see how that can be a db abstraction layer is not an app server
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<andru> You let the database be the server, the libary plugs in where geas was on the client end
<chillywilly> that's a fat client then
<andru> exactly
<andru> and you have the same code in every client
<andru> but i dont mind have a 3mb libary on every client
<chillywilly> well we hav talked about downloadbale methods and having some fat client functionality too
<chillywilly> er, downloadable
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<sevik> andru: but what abount thin clients and forcing business rules in server?
<andru> nothing?
<andru> nothing at all.
<andru> ssh i'm not here.
<chillywilly> blah
<chillywilly> thin clients rock
<sevik> what is the sense of yet another database abstraction ?
<chillywilly> doean't matter though as we're probablyt gonna have noth wsays to do it....well we sorta do anyway
<chillywilly> s/noth/noth
<chillywilly> damn
<chillywilly> it is hard to type standing up
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> well there's an OO db stabdard, and a relational db stabdard that ppl only half use
<chillywilly> ODBC is supposed tobe a standard
<sevik> and going that way you forcing all client applicatin to be in one language..
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<chillywilly> how is ODBC tieing you to one language?
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<chillywilly> wassup dude?
<sevik> not odbc :)) loading methods in client
<reinhard> oh my god
<reinhard> andru is back
<reinhard> ;)
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<jamest> reinhard: he was just stopping by
<jamest> seems he scraped geas and recoded it :(
<jamest> he has a new geas API compatible thing 
<jamest> http://bond.treshna.com
<jamest> has a UI generator as well 
<reinhard> well
<reinhard> there is good in that news, too
<reinhard> at least we can now be 100% sure that breaking compatibility will be no problem in geas
<jamest> :)
<sevik> bond is not UI generator as I understand, it's a db binder to gladegenerated UI
<jcater> chillywilly: I strongly disagree that a python geas would be slower than current C!!!
<jcater> later
Nick change: jcater -> jcLunch
<jamest> sevik: sorry, i had private talk w/ andru about "old times"
<jamest> and he claimed to still be working on his UI thing
<jamest> which IIRC translated xml into hard coded C interfaces
<jamest> i thought that was talked about in main channel but I see now it wasn't :)
<sevik> quote from bond.thresna.com:
<sevik> GnomeDB will probably be added. Within postgresql you can create views to your tables that describe the fields you want on a window form. This is then picked up by BOND and translated into information to work out which widgets are data-aware and what their data source is. Vies also need to be created in postgresql to define the relationships between objects. BOND will only work with postgresql version 7.0 and 
<sevik> so it not stores meta information
<sevik> it works on plain one table selects/updates/etc
<jamest> it's postgresql only?
<sevik> according to site - yes
<jamest> ouch
<reinhard> oh yeah that's cool
<reinhard> a database abstraction layer that only understands postgres
<reinhard> :)
<sevik> as i understand - main task of bond - binding widgets to fields in db, and automatically providing standart functions like search/add/modify
<sevik> something like gnuef in its current 2tier state but in C
<jamest> ah, then that is his UI thing of old
<jamest> i prefer gnuef :)
<sevik> grrr, source tarball contains compiled objects/binaries/etc
<chillywilly> the current geas is crap just so you know anything wil be faster than it
<chillywilly> plus the whole caching design is lame as hell
<chillywilly> you need multiple caches
<chillywilly> my OO design bok has a much better design in it
<chillywilly> s/bok/book
<chillywilly> I am gonna buy the friggin odmg book this week I think
<chillywilly> I'll photo copy it and mail it to whoever wants it
<chillywilly> we should switch to GObject in the development glib
<chillywilly> I bet libGDA isn't ODMG compliant what Gnome should use is a an ODMG GObject mapping
<chillywilly> reinhard I think the parser internal stuctures should alos use GObject system as I think you can add methods and shit to GObjects on the fly which would be pretty cool
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<chillywilly> jamest you here?
<chillywilly> jamest could you install gnu emacs 21 on ash?
<chillywilly> I think that package is in testing now
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<chillywilly> uh oh
<chillywilly> we're being watched now
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<sevik> chillywilly: :))
<chillywilly> psu you are using winblows?
<psu> fraid so
<psu> usual excuse - I need MS Office
<psu> (the GNU equivalent of "I only read Playboy for the articles" I know...
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<chillywilly> you need M$ office like you need a hole in the head
<chillywilly> :P
<jbailey> chillywilly: Have you considered life *without* any holes in your head?
<chillywilly> hey jeff
<chillywilly> jbailey I meant an extra one....some of those holes you need to have there
<jbailey> "some".  I don't think I have a spare one right now -I'll keep you posted.
<chillywilly> I can function with one eye
Action: chillywilly gouges out his other eye
<chillywilly> anyway...
<jbailey> Depth perseption would be all wacked.
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<chillywilly> whatever man
<chillywilly> you need all the natural holes in your head
<chillywilly> but you don't need an extra one
<chillywilly> is that good engouh?
<chillywilly> enough even
<jbailey> oh admit it.  You want an earring. =)
<sevik>    bazmarty price.
<sevik>    tomota sauce
<sevik>    pipped prunes
<sevik>    potato pomps - frozen ones
<sevik>    sascuages
<sevik>    deviled sausages sauce in a can
<sevik>    chicken stock. - real liquid stock.
<sevik> */
<sevik> :)) src/db.c from bond-0.0.8 :))
Action: jcater only has one eye
<sevik> first line: /* marika needs to get ... supermarket, i from from supermarket, ...
<reinhard> sevik: that is typical andr* coding style
<sevik> static void
<sevik> db_loadobjectbyobject_addtosql(gchar ** _query, gchar * destfield, gchar * destt
<sevik> able, gchar * value)
<sevik> query = g_strdup_printf("SELECT *,oid FROM %s WHERE %s = '%s'", desttable,
<sevik>  destfield, value);
<sevik> value is not quoted
<reinhard> jcater: really?
<reinhard> "The thing I love most about deadlines is the wonderful WHOOSHing sound they make as they go past." - Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
<jcater> reinhard: well, I have two masses, one in each socket, but only one functions
<sevik> using postgresql oid's for crossreferences, grrr
<reinhard> bbl movie's about to begin
Nick change: reinhard -> rm-joeblack
<chillywilly> brb
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<Mr_You> hey hey
<chillywilly> howdy
<jcater> hey howdy hey
<Mr_You> for some reason my PII laptop don't like the 686 image
<Mr_You> brb
<chillywilly> kernel image?
<ajmitch> chillywilly: you should be working ;)
<chillywilly> uh, no
<chillywilly> I am working
<chillywilly> damnit
<chillywilly> soeone has to sit at the panel
<chillywilly> and make sure the signals come in
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> sounds like a hard job
Action: ajmitch thinks chillywilly is addicted to IRC
<chillywilly> well I took the ladder and gathered and put back the freakin smoke detectors on the 2nd fllor
<chillywilly> floor
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<chillywilly> uh oh
<ajmitch> run!
<jamest_> actually I have too forgot about an appointment :)
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<ajmitch> hehe
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<reinhard> good movie
<reinhard> but now i am tired
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> night all
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Nick change: jcAway -> jcater
<Mr_You> hmm this image works fine, but pcmcia modules aren't
<Mr_You> and strangely many including my messages from Oct on kde::enterprise mailing list are gone from the archives
<Mr_You> must have dumped them
<jcater> it's a conspiracy
<chillywilly> you bet
<chillywilly> they wanna remove GNU
<chillywilly> kde bastards
<chillywilly> and this is the desktop you all choose to run?
<jcater> what's your problem w/kde
<jcater> at least it's GPL
<jcater> :)
<jcater> and not LGPL :)
<chillywilly> so is a ot of Gnome
<chillywilly> plz
<chillywilly> do me a favor
<jcater> last I checked, gnome was mostly lgpl
<chillywilly> go to #kde and say hey man isn't the GPL awesome
<Mr_You> heh
<jcater> lol
<jcater> go to #gnome and say "hey, why don't we make it non-techie user friendly"
<chillywilly> it is getting there...KDE had a head start
<chillywilly> what do you expect?
<chillywilly> QT is dual licensed so that's even worse at least you cannot use GTK+ code but you can link to it....however if I pay trolltech some money I can take away all the freedoms
<chillywilly> how is that any better or worse?
<jcater> I don't see how that takes away any freedom wrt KDE...seems like the same situation w/gtk
<chillywilly> how do you figure?
<jcater> usually w/my fingers and toes, but occasionally w/a calculator
<chillywilly> heh
<Mr_You> heh
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mdean (mdean@mkc-65-26-66-55.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> wassup?
Maniac (darryl@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> jamest: that really you?
<chillywilly> nah, it is an illusion
<chillywilly> you can wake up now
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jcater (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: jcater slaps chillywilly w/a smelly trout
<chillywilly> wb jc
<jcater> thanks
<jcater> damn gnome app
<jcater> crashed on me
<chillywilly> kde lovin' punk
<chillywilly> because you use kde now it does not ike you
<chillywilly> like
<chillywilly> pay back is a beotch
<chillywilly> :P
<jcater> well
<jcater> in all honesty
Action: mdean pets his KDE 2.2 installation
Action: jcater 'd prefer a text only :)
<jcater> but that's impractical :)
<jcater> mdean: 'sup?
<chillywilly> mdean: you are also an agent of the dark side?
<mdean> howdy ye all
Action: chillywilly hisses
Action: chillywilly goes to hang out in #gnome
<mdean> dark side?  it ain't M$
<chillywilly> might as well be :P
<chillywilly> looks damn similar
<mdean> looks more like OS/2 to me
<jcater> mdean: yeah! the fact that it's gpl'ed doesn't matter.. it's not GNU
<chillywilly> I can't tell the difference
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> jcater: kdelibs is not gpl'd
Action: jcater hugs his kde
<chillywilly> it is not all gpl'd
Action: mdean gives KDE a snack
<chillywilly> gah
<chillywilly> you ppl are sickening
Action: Maniac hugs jcater
<Maniac> oops wrong channel
Action: jcater blushes
Action: chillywilly trout beats jcater senseless
<mdean> hmmmm - and I guess Mono is a good thing?
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<jcater> mdean: depends on how much you enjoyed getting it :)
<mdean> heh
<chillywilly> dotgnu is a good thing....mono would a good thing too if they would know how to cooperate but I hate ximian as much as I hate kde
<Maniac> i got it from a water bottle on my basketball team....
<jcater> mdean: is that a .rr.com I see??? you finally get your broadband?
<Maniac> jcater: i already port scanned him to see if i could hack in and steal his bandwidth
<mdean> finally - the reaches of digital have finally extended to the boonies
Action: Maniac notes up in winnipeg we've had it for 3 years.....
jamest_ (jamest@fh-dialup-201089.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: jcater rubs his eyes
<jcater> jamest_: is that really you?
Nick change: jamest_ -> joe_smith
<jcater> damn
<jcater> guess not
Nick change: joe_smith -> jamest_
<jamest_> yes, it's me
<chillywilly> another kde traitor
<jcater> chillywilly: um, give it up.. you're outnumbered by a large margin :)
<jamest_> s/traitor/lover
<chillywilly> whore
<jcater> no closet-kde lovin here :)
<mdean> KDE is really swell!
<chillywilly> you're all trolltech whores now
<chillywilly> give all your code to trolltech
<jcater> no
<chillywilly> NOW
<jcater> we're trolltech bitches
<jamest_> pimp that gpl'd qt to to me baby!
<jcater> there's a difference
<mdean> KDevelop rocks too
<jamest_> that vile, evil gpl'd code
<chillywilly> big deal
<chillywilly> go through an count all the gnome libs, kde libs, and apps and it will be a wash anyway
<chillywilly> I know several kde developers who detest the gpl just as much
<chillywilly> got o #kde
<chillywilly> s/o/to
<chillywilly> it's loaded with them
<jamest_> as much as ximian hates the term free software?
Action: jamest_ ducks
<chillywilly> they probably bitched and moaned when QT went GPL
<chillywilly> ximian ia not gnome....does redhat hat the gpl?
<jcater> chillywilly: trolltech is not kde :)
<chillywilly> ximian can kiss my ass
<chillywilly> just admit it you do not wanna support GNU when it does not suit you ;)
<chillywilly> GObject should make the dependencies less painful
<jcater> chillywilly: turn that around :)
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<chillywilly> KDE 2.0 was a complete rewrite
<chillywilly> jcater: I am using a GNU desktop how about you?
<jcater> I'm using a solid oak desktop w/a computer with GPL'd/free fillings
<chillywilly> where my kde forms frontend damnit?
thekdekid (jamest@fh-dialup-201089.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<thekdekid> whoops, wrong button
<Mr_You> hehe
Nick change: thekdekid -> jamest_
Action: jcater is going to work on his contributions to free software and stop arguing about gnu
<jcater> jamest_: wb
<chillywilly> why don't you leyt me have ops and I can show the kde kid something
Action: jamest_ is going to keep on being a calc bitch
<Maniac> i have a confession to make
<Maniac> i use microsoft word
<Maniac> and excel
<Maniac> .... regularly
<jcater> gasp!
<chillywilly> heretic!
<chillywilly> infidel!
<chillywilly> you will die now!
<chillywilly> :P
<jamest_> run Maniac
Action: mdean uses outcrook and dev studio and sql server and internet explorer for a living
<Maniac> a heretic is just someone whose ideas haven't been accepted by the blind public
<chillywilly> no one expects the gnu inquisition
<Maniac> a genius
<Maniac> even
<Maniac> i work in excel while listening to britney spears......
Action: javaguy keeps an eye out for flying fish
<chillywilly> javaguy: you a kde whore now too?
<Maniac> mdean: does dcl export to microsoft project?
<chillywilly> oh good
<chillywilly> wanda is kewl 
<chillywilly> ;)
<Mr_You> chillywilly: put that battle aside and choose another ;-)
Action: javaguy is an IceWM whore
<chillywilly> Mr_You: shutup
<mdean> Maniac: it creates a tab delimited file for consumption by any M$ office product
<Mr_You> when GTK and KDE are in widespread use, bring it back out
<jcater> mdean: really?
<jcater> how do you do that?
<mdean> jcater: do a search and look at the drop down box in the results
<jcater> duh!
<jcater> I knew that
Action: jcater slaps himself w/a trout
<mdean> :)
<Maniac> jcater: cmon that was an easy one :)
<chillywilly> mdean: I know you are an M$ whore by day, but I'd rather fricking starve
Action: Mr_You thinks we should spend more time coding than debating ;-) *snicker*
<Maniac> i can one-up mdean
Action: chillywilly is coding
<chillywilly> just not GNUe
Action: jcater is coding too
Action: mdean is updating his Ximian Desktop
<jcater> ...or is setting up my ignore file considered coding?
<Maniac> are you ready? i use MS Office Suite, Borland delphi, interbase (NOT opensource), win2kpro and ... Filemaker 5.5 @ work
<jcater> oh, yeah
<Mr_You> thats too bad maniac
<chillywilly> Maniac: sucks to be you
<Maniac> oh, forgot IE 6.0 <--- the best browser yet!
<chillywilly> damn I have too many debs to download
<chillywilly> uh, no
<mdean> I work with developers who snicker at the W3C DOM standard - all I want is for our product to support Mozilla!
Action: Maniac is downloading Win2kSP2
Action: jcater is downloading pr0n
<jcater> oops
<Mr_You> heh
<chillywilly> mdean: what's wrong with the DOM?
<Maniac> can you apt-get from Microsoft?
<Maniac> rpm -Uvh Win2kSP2.exe
<jamest_> Maniac: you should replace them all with gdbm, vi, oleo, and the hurd
<mdean> chillywilly: they think it's funny (or maybe cute) that I want to use DOM so both browsers are supported
<Maniac> ^-- that bombed for some reason --^
<Mr_You> you said those two words inthe same sentence!
<chillywilly> apt-get this (780987&)(*&)(*&
<jcater> Maniac: sure, it's called "Hey apt, get me that damn MS cd"
<Mr_You> blasphemy!
<Maniac> jcater: LOL
<chillywilly> mdean: they only want you to support M$
<chillywilly> mdean: you should set them straight
<mdean> chillywilly: ja - I'm trying
<jamest_> cause they're all SAGPL'd (Socially acceptable gnu public license) software
<mdean> chillywilly: I wrote a drag and drop layout editor for real estate listings using the DOM
<chillywilly> I will leave old kde alone
<mdean> chillywilly: most of it works in Mozilla too
<chillywilly> kde is ok....I just don't like it
<jamest_> :)
<jamest_> btw Maniac I'm joking of course
<jcater> hmm
<jamest_> I'm a steenking solaris user
<jcater> psu:  this discussing doesn't need summarization :)
<Maniac> jamest_: sokay
<chillywilly> psu: summarize NOW!!! or die!!!
Action: chillywilly is going on a killing spree
<chillywilly> killall everybody
<chillywilly> kill -9 jcater
<mdean> mv chillywilly /dev/null
<jcater> mv /dev/null chillywilly
<chillywilly> cat jcater /dev/null
<Maniac> cat chillywilly 
<chillywilly> oops
<chillywilly> cat jcater > /dev/null
<Maniac> cat chillywilly | grep 'a clue'
<chillywilly> Maniac: I live here I can act like an ass if I want to
<Maniac> lol
<chillywilly> Maniac: you just have to deal with it or get the fsck out
<chillywilly> :P
<Maniac> chillywilly: i'm a visitor seriously cruisin for a bruisin
Action: Maniac runs scared
<chillywilly> eveyone loves to get their daily trout shippings
<chillywilly> er, whippings I mean
<chillywilly> although....
<chillywilly> you boys better keep checking your mailboxes
<Maniac> and here i thought you were going to ship me some trout
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: jcater needs to ship chillywilly "How to Win Friends and Influence People" for Christmas
<Maniac> chillywilly: i can be reached at maniac@tryandemailme.com
<chillywilly> jcater: I need to ship you "How Not to Marry My Sister Event Though I Live in the South" ;)
<chillywilly> and "I Do Really Own A Pair of Shoes?"
Action: jcater is starting his christmas list... so far: 
<jcater> chillywilly: How to Win Firends and Influence People
<jcater> jamest_: Calculus Made Easy
<jcater> derek: Raising Goats for Profit
<chillywilly> jamest_ I can help you with claculus
<chillywilly> er, calculus I mean
<chillywilly> the answer is the first derivative ;)
<chillywilly> weeee
<Maniac> does xchat run on windows?
<chillywilly> they make engineers take lots of friggin calculus
<chillywilly> Maniac: not for you :P
<chillywilly> jcater: and don't forget "My Cousin is Not Sexy"
<jcater> Maniac: sure... but when you are booting up, you need to press l i n u x <enter>
<jcater> and it will boot w/gnome support :)
<jcater> chillywilly: he is too
<jamest_> chillywilly: cool
<jamest_> tell me then
<chillywilly> plz read that book jc
<chillywilly> yes?
<jamest_> now the integration of sin x cos x dx  
Action: chillywilly is too lazy to get up and answer the phone
<jamest_> is supposed to be
<chillywilly> use substitution :P
<chillywilly> it makes it easier
<chillywilly> shit man I would have to dig out my book
<jamest_> 1/2 (sin^2 x)+c
<jamest_> :)
<chillywilly> I don't have those memorized anymore
<chillywilly> I use the front cover of the book :P
<jamest_> as the solutions guide (the book they want you to buy to help you) says that is the answer but we've not worked one like this before
<jamest_> and they of course have in the guide initial problem = answer
<chillywilly> hmmmmm
<chillywilly> well
<jamest_> w/o one damn trace of the logic to get from point b from a
<chillywilly> you = sin x
<chillywilly> damn xchat
<jamest_> i = sin lots
<chillywilly> u=sin x
<jcater> roflmao
<chillywilly> du=oh I know
<chillywilly> woops
<chillywilly> oh I know
<chillywilly> use the product rule
<chillywilly> d/dx[uv] = uv' + vu'
<chillywilly> derivative of the first times derivative of the second
<chillywilly> er sorry
<chillywilly> first times derivative of the second
<chillywilly> + second times derivative of the first
<chillywilly> then you probably gotta do some hairy ass trig identities to reduce it though
<chillywilly> lemme see...
<jamest_> but i have the derivative now
<jamest_> and I'm integratring
<jamest_> it's ok
<chillywilly> uh duh
<chillywilly> intergation
<chillywilly> I knew that
<chillywilly> doh
<chillywilly> they teach you substitution?
<chillywilly> 'u du' crap
<chillywilly> u=cos x
<chillywilly> er wait
<chillywilly> u=sin x
<chillywilly> du cos x dx
<chillywilly> du=cos x dx
<chillywilly> so then it is
<jamest_> yip
<chillywilly> I[u du]
<chillywilly> = 1/2 u^2
<chillywilly> substitute you
<chillywilly> 'u'
<chillywilly> back in
<chillywilly> 1/2 sin^2 x +C
<chillywilly> get it?
<chillywilly> hey man
<jamest_> maybe
<chillywilly> I am damn proud of myself for remembering that
<chillywilly> ;)
<jamest_> lemme perculate for a sec
<chillywilly> you basically look at the function and try to identify a function and its derivative
<chillywilly> id you can do that you can make it into a simple 'u du' form
<chillywilly> s/id/if
<chillywilly> since
<chillywilly> d/dx sin u=cos u du
<chillywilly> (derivative of sine == cosine)
<jamest_> argh!
<jamest_> stoopid, stoopid, stoopid jamest
<chillywilly> you can rewrite the integral
<chillywilly> sorry
<jamest_> trig identity states: sin 2x = sin x cos x
<jamest_> makes the whole problem much much easier :)
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> that's easy too
<chillywilly> won't always fit a nice identity
<jamest_> nope
<chillywilly> wait unti you do integration by parts
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> until
<chillywilly> those are the hariest integrals
<chillywilly> they don't even fit any forms....bsaically it is th elast resort to do integration by parts
<chillywilly> thing I hate about math is if you miss one little thing you can screw the whole problem up
<jcater> there's more than one thing I hate about math :)
<chillywilly> heheh
Action: chillywilly has had too much math
Action: jcater too
<chillywilly> calculus I, II, III, IV, and differential equations
<chillywilly> but I always got As
<chillywilly> math rox
<chillywilly> anyway
<chillywilly> jamest_: you can email me questions too if I am not around at chillywilly@gnue.org or danielb@freedevelopers.net....I probably didn't mention it bu junior and senior year I tutored all math classes for the TRIO program
Action: jcater makes a note of those email addresses
<jcater> mwahahaha
<chillywilly> and CS courses too :P
<chillywilly> I like teaching ;)
Action: chillywilly should go be a proff at MSOE when he's sick of working
<jamest_> chillywilly: cool, I'll keep that in mind
<chillywilly> =)
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<chillywilly> mb mdean
<mdean> thanks - installed Ximian desktop so I can run the latest xchat in kde
<chillywilly> i suppose you're not using debian either?
<mdean> Mandark
<chillywilly> you are just a naughty Free Software guy
<mdean> :)
<chillywilly> man I think the new debian installer and hadrware detection thingy will kick ass
<chillywilly> they are rollong progeny's stuff into debian
<mdean> new installer?  it needed one!
<chillywilly> rolling
<mdean> cool
<chillywilly> blah, you shouldn't install gnu/linux if you don't know what you are doing ;)
<chillywilly> j/k
Action: chillywilly hooked his bussy up with debian the other day
<chillywilly> er, buddy
<mdean> I tried 1.3 - didn't care for the install
<chillywilly> 1.3 is ancient
Action: chillywilly runs unstable anyway
<mdean> this was around '98 or '99
<chillywilly> do you use urpmi?
<mdean> not directly
<mdean> I was dialup until today
<chillywilly> well didn't you like apt?
Action: chillywilly is still on dialup
<mdean> so updating packages wasn't my priority
Action: chillywilly is updating 135MB worth of packages
<mdean> truthfully, I didn't get it installed - didn't feel I needed to configure the services at install time
<chillywilly> over dialup
<chillywilly> :P
<mdean> ouch
<chillywilly> configure services at install time?
<mdean> yes - maybe it was a bad install selection I made, but it was asking all kinds of questions to configure the services
<mdean> any word on when they are rolling in Progeny stuff?
<chillywilly> man I was whipping through my buddies install.....I can now say I am a master debian installer ;)
<chillywilly> I dunno
<chillywilly> probably for woody release
<mdean> I used to be that way with Slackware
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> used to? slack 8 rox my world :)
<chillywilly> debian should get releases out faster
<chillywilly> now that they have package pools and 3 distros
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<chillywilly> man I am gonna gte a DSL connection soon
<chillywilly> get
<chillywilly> mmmmm, nutty bars are way better then krispy kreme
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> gasp!
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> j/k
<mdean> ls
<mdean> doh!
<chillywilly> I don't think I have ever had krispy kreme
<chillywilly> command not found
<chillywilly> BIOS-update
<chillywilly> FAFSA
<chillywilly> MM1Stead.pdf
<chillywilly> Mail
<chillywilly> Nautilus
<chillywilly> News
<chillywilly> OQL
<chillywilly> PHP-Nuke-5.2.tar.gz
<chillywilly> SentinelX
<chillywilly> TODO
<chillywilly> TSS-pattern.ps.gz
<chillywilly> Trash
<chillywilly> ajmitch-cvs
<chillywilly> archives
<chillywilly> art
<chillywilly> audio
<chillywilly> baumannd.bib
<chillywilly> bin
<chillywilly> books.txt
<chillywilly> bootdisk.com
<chillywilly> career
Action: jcater trout-slaps chillywilly
<chillywilly> cash
<chillywilly> cash.cfa96685.4235.LNK
<chillywilly> cehandbook_bulletin_avoidingrecruiters.pdf
<chillywilly> cehandbook_bulletin_inefficiencyandgreed.pdf
<chillywilly> cehandbook_bulletin_settingrates.pdf
<chillywilly> contacts
<chillywilly> core
<chillywilly> core.2580
<chillywilly> core.738
<chillywilly> coupon.ps
<chillywilly> cs470
<chillywilly> cs470.old
<chillywilly> danielb@dotgnu.voxel.net
<chillywilly> debs
<chillywilly> depends.txt
<chillywilly> desktop_webservice.txt
<chillywilly> desktop_webservices.fig
<chillywilly> doc
<chillywilly> drm.pdf
<chillywilly> dtm_roms.txt
<chillywilly> elisp-comp
<chillywilly> emacs-init.tar.gz
<chillywilly> emacs-modes
<chillywilly> erc-1.1.tar.gz
<chillywilly> etc
<chillywilly> ewrayjohnson.zip
<chillywilly> example-.bitchxrc
<chillywilly> firewall
<chillywilly> fitzix.txt
<chillywilly> fitzix.txt.gpg
<chillywilly> forum-5.2
<chillywilly> forum-5.2.tar.gz
<chillywilly> forum-todo.html
<chillywilly> freedev
<chillywilly> gateway
<chillywilly> gateway.txt
<chillywilly> gnome-chord_0.2.1-1_i386.deb
<chillywilly> gnu.txt
Action: jcater trout-slaps chillywilly again
<chillywilly> gtk-themes
<chillywilly> heist60.mpeg
<chillywilly> index.html
<chillywilly> index.tar.gz
<chillywilly> insert-en-us-zipcodes.geas
<chillywilly> insert-en-us-zipcodes.sql
<chillywilly> ipcheck.tmp
<chillywilly> ivmdemo
<chillywilly> ivmdemo.tar.gz
<chillywilly> jdkelf
<chillywilly> jdkelf.tar.gz
<chillywilly> laptop
<chillywilly> lua-inst
<chillywilly> lyxrc.defaults
<chillywilly> mach-info-0.3.tar.gz
<chillywilly> mail
<chillywilly> mike.txt
<chillywilly> mlug-msoe.txt
<chillywilly> moms-fax-work.txt
<chillywilly> mutt.tar.gz
<chillywilly> nohup.out
<chillywilly> notes.txt
<chillywilly> odmg
<chillywilly> odmg2.0
<chillywilly> odmg30.zip
<chillywilly> oifml.ps
<chillywilly> oskit-mach.sgml
<chillywilly> panel-backgroud-floating-gnu.jpg
<chillywilly> patch.diff
<chillywilly> photos
<chillywilly> poetry.text
<chillywilly> reference.ps
<chillywilly> resc1440.bin
<chillywilly> root1440.bin
<chillywilly> scrappy
<chillywilly> serverinfo.txt.gpg
<chillywilly> share
<chillywilly> simulation
<chillywilly> someone_else's_employee.pdf
<chillywilly> src
<chillywilly> src-save
<chillywilly> statuslock
<chillywilly> target.txt
<chillywilly> test.gfd
<chillywilly> tls-10-02-2001.pls
<chillywilly> tmp
<chillywilly> trioweb
<chillywilly> trioweb-cvsroot.tar.gz
<chillywilly> verses.txt
<chillywilly> wallpapers
<chillywilly> whyfp.ps
<chillywilly> xchat-mutt.py
<chillywilly> zipcodes
<jamest_> hmmm
<jamest_> lots of crap in here I don't need
<jamest_> rm -rf *
chillywilly (danielb@d161.as27.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error to chillywilly[d161.as27.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net]: Connection reset by peer
<jcater> more test.gfd
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<jcater> echo | mutt -a heist60.mpeg -s "check this out" jcater@gnue.org
<jcater> our donut shop needs some xml-rpc, dcom, etc connectivity
<jcater> KrispieKreme.sendDonuts(jcater)
<chillywilly> lol
<jcater> order = KrispieKreme.newOrder()
<jcater> order.sendTo(jcater)
<jcater> order.billTo(chillywilly)
<jcater> order.submit()
<jcater> :)
<mdean> gah!  order has no items in collection!
<chillywilly> order.cancel()
<jcater> mdean: I order so frequently, they have a default parameter for me :)
<mdean> hehe
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Action: jcater must sleep
jcater (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: nite
<chillywilly> jcater == krispie kreme kritter
<chillywilly> kkk
<chillywilly> haha
<jamest_> thanks for the help chillywilly
<jamest_> i'm out of here
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Action: chillywilly should get a job with redhat
<chillywilly> redhat can pay me to hack on GNUe
<chillywilly> that's the ticket ;)
<chillywilly> damn I dun figured it all ou
<chillywilly> out
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<Mr_You> this puter in the closet warms the room nicely with the door open
<jbailey> My den in the old place was like that.  3 computers.  toasty warm.
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Nick change: mdean -> mdean-zZzZ
<dtm> chillywilly: HIGH
<dtm> mdean-zZzZ: oooh   mdean's always on1
<dtm> !
<dtm> mdean-zZzZ: ^5
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--- Fri Nov  2 2001