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<chillywilly> hey reinhard
<chillywilly> did jonas ever hack on GNUe?
<reinhard> not really
<reinhard> he was maintainer in the pre-code days
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> gnu maintainer?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> gotta leave, my 4 year old wants to play GCompris :)
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<chillywilly> GCompris?
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<jcater> morning
[09:44] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<jamest> was there anything odd about widget placement in designer
<jcater> that's an open ended question
<jcater> can you be more specific
<jamest> i can get mouse drag and drop motion working fine in Y axis
<jamest> but X axis is going nuts
<jamest> and I'm shifting positions based upon the grid sizing
<jamest> did I scare you away ?
<jcater> no
<jcater> I'm thinking
<jcater> I don't recall anything peculiar
<jcater> you wanna commit what you have?
<jamest> sure
<jamest> hang on
<jamest> eri mean , brace yourself
Action: jcater is hanging on
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> cvs conflicts
<jcater> really?
<jcater> where?
<jcater> I don't recall working outside of GComm this whole weekend
<jamest> they're old
<jamest> I'm still building list
<jcater> btw, I am making a change in Designer's TemplateParser.py.. I'm assuming this won't conflict w/you
<jamest> nope
<jamest> that's wierd
<jamest> it told be conflict but couldn't find any
<jamest> second checkin worked
<jamest> ok, it's commited
<jamest> jcater: what you adding?
Action: jcater crosses fingers... please no conflicts :)
<jcater> I'm modifying the New Form Wizards so that the input fields are larger
<jcater> (so you can actually read them)
<jamest> cool
<jamest> that'd be nice for 0.1.0
<jamest> :)
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<jamest> brb , need to raid the kitchen's caffeine 
<jamest> supply
<jcater> lol
<jamest> back
<jamest> you try the mouse thang?
<jcater> yip
<jcater> it's fscked up
<jamest> ?
<jamest> what's it doing?
<jamest> y was working without issue on my machine
<jamest> x was screwed
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<jamest> that bad eh?
<jcater> I don't think KDE likes xchat
<jamest> what are you seeing in the mouse?
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<jcater> problem is your mouse coordinates are relative to widget, not to panel.. but the mouse is moving according to panel coordinates
<jcater> I think
<jamest> yip
<jamest> however I couldn't move up the widget tree and get valid coords
<jamest> so I moved everything (i thought) to the widget level
<jamest> I pull the coords from the widget onLeftDown
<jamest> and that seems to provide me the position within the widget
<jamest> then I track the pointer motion within the widgets OnMotion also relative to the widget
<jcater> lemme try something
<jamest> sure
<gemcat> where is a good place to start? xml? python? php?
<jamest> gemcat: what are you wanting to do?
<gemcat> welll jamest: id like to displace msn but doubt ill get that far
<jamest> :)
<jamest> let me rephrase
<jamest> are you wanting to work on core gnue tools, work on gnue apps, or just use the product
<gemcat> well - i took a course on powerbuilder and sybase enterprise but cannot afford the licences
<gemcat> i am a planner by profession and doing things myself is kind of a last resort
<jcater> jamest: think I got it.. give me a sec
<gemcat> as a participant maybe the report writer module - I have done something like that before
<gemcat> I really like infomaker - an open version would be nice
<jcater> gemcat: I'm not familiar with infomaker
<jcater> who does that?
<gemcat> it is sybase version of crystal reports
<jcater> gotcha
<jcater> jamest: I just committed changes to designer
<jamest> jcater: ok, new question
<jcater> jamest: I moved the OnMotion stuff to the panel, but kept the left_down s tuff at the widget level
<gemcat> in sybase they have unified the form designer and the reprot writer
<jamest> forms is expecting the dbdrivers to raise DBError
<jamest> however none of the new db drivers do that
<gemcat> so informaker can be used to make form templates
<jamest> they raise errors from either GDataObjects or GConnections
<jamest> so they are not caught and handled by forms
<jcater> yeah.. I saw that
<jcater> I was going to mention we should fix that before a release :)
<jamest> where you planning a single exception raised to the app level or should I make forms handle the various errors at the app level
<jcater> I think there are only two errors than need catching... all the GConnections errors stem from a common exception as di all the GDataObjects
<jcater> there is a self.handleStartupError that nicely formats errors
<jamest> as part of the common app class?
<jcater> yes
<jcater> but I thought I'd used it in forms somewhere
<jamest> and you're ok with just dealing w/ the parent exceptions
<jcater> well, the child exceptions should be providing a decent error mesg that can be passed on (i..e, they should be fairly user-understandable)
<jcater> if not, the child errors need rewording
<jamest> the new mouse code is freaking out
<jcater> lol
<jcater> we must have contradictory pcs
<jcater> 'cause your mouse code was freaking out for me :)
<jamest> it doesn't move at all
<jcater> oh
<jcater> wtf
<jamest> lol
<jamest> works fine on labels
<jamest> dies hard on entries
<jcater> lol
<jcater> gues what I was testing against?
<jamest> btw - welcome to the living hell I've been messing with since yesterday
<jcater> well, at least labels work :)
<jcater> um
<jamest> I can't find anything consistant
<jamest> :)
<jcater> I honestly don't know how to get entries to work
<jcater> I couldn't trap the keystrokes reliably
<jcater> I think this is a big problem w/wxWindows
<jamest> also
<jcater> it WON'T let go of some events
<jamest> on the labels
<jamest> the mouse slowly moves off the widget
<jcater> yeah, I know
<jcater> it's because the event system can't keep up with the movement
<jcater> I didn't say it was perfect
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> but, but, but
<jcater> if you move slowly enough, it'll keep up
<jcater> :)
<jamest> i expect perfect!
<jamest> that's how mine worked too :)
<jcater> your's didn't work in the x direction though :)
<jamest> gemcat: i'm not sure we're after crystal reports
<jamest> but we sure could use help
<jamest> jcater is the dude working on reports (and designer, and forms, and gcomm, and the kitchen sink)
<jcater> jamest: you know how some projects say to give thanks by sending pizza (or pizza coupons)...
<jamest> jcater: can I play w/ mouse again or are you still in there
<jcater> I think we should ask for tylenol :)
<jamest> lol
<jamest> tylenolware
<jcater> jamest: please, be my guest
<gemcat> jamest: i can see that crystal reports might not fit your model - i got a book on xml otw - i will be around - thanks
<jamest> gemcat: no problem
<jamest> gemcat: we could use a windows tester
<jamest> sounds like you may be a windows user?
<gemcat> i have w98 and NT4
<jamest> cool , most of us are *nix and even Mac OS X users
<jamest> so our windows testing is usually put off till the last minute :(
<gemcat> well i have to use nt at work
<gemcat> i am getting another bok after thanksgiving - will have RH7, RH7.1, a firewall, and a NT4 hopefully
<jamest> cool
<gemcat> my firewall has some kind of bios probs - and I hope to setup the rh71 as a webserver/graphics machine
<jcater> jamest: anything you wanna me to do in preparation?
<jamest> for?
<jcater> like that gnuef exception handling
<jcater> release
<jamest> the things we need (i think)
<jamest>   db error handling
<jamest>   the new designer template (with readable fields! :)
<jamest>   mouse in designer (I think it'd help usability alot)
<jamest>   docs up to date
<jamest>     (for the gfd format)
<jamest>   changelog updated
<jamest> so pick what you like :)
<jcater> well, #2 is done
<jamest> right now I'm screwing up the mouse code again
<jcater> I assume you are working on #3
<jcater> I'll do #1 and then look at #4
<jcater> I've never done #5
<jamest>   whoops, 
<jamest>     win32 support fixed (I'm working on that too when wife isn't on her system)
<jcater> well, tell her jason said get off :)
<jcater> j/k
<jamest> she might hurt me!
<jcater> don't really tell her that
<jamest> actually, she's done w/ it for now
<jamest> but I'm banging on the mouse thing
<jcater> I didn't need to know that
<gemcat> i registered at your website
<gemcat> bbl
<jamest> jcater: :)
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<jcater> argh!!
<jamest> yes?
<jcater> pygresql
<jcater> argh!!
<jcater> it defines a standard set of exceptions
<jamest> lemme guess
<jcater> but it throws exceptions defined in its c module
<jamest> they match
<jcater> argh!
<jcater> I wonder if anyone associated w/pygresql ever actually used the pgdb interface??
<jcater> as it's laden w/bugs
<jamest> no idea
<jamest> I gave up on it and went pyscop IIRC
<jamest> or popy
<jamest> or something
<jcater> :)
<jcater> one of those just released a new version
<jcater> oops
<jcater> we have not updated the ODBC driver to reflect new GDataObject model
<jcater> jamest: you still here?
<jamest> sorry back
<jamest> went on an errand w/ lindsay
<jcater> for the old ODBC driver, were you using PythonWin's builtin driver, or mxODBC?
<jamest> IIRC it had settings for both
<jcater> ah
<jcater> hmm
<jamest> jade was the last person to work on that driver
<jcater> we have any docs on our ODBC support?
<jcater> like example datasources :)
<jamest> used to :)
<jamest> they are documented (the gfd syntax) in the ref guide
<jcater> argh!
<jcater> I guess I need to install lyx
<jamest> :)
<jamest> look at the web copy of the docs
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> speaking of docs
<jcater> I guess I need to start on reports and designer docs at some point
<jcater> <sigh>
<jamest> lol
<jcater> um
<jcater> is odbc in heavy use anywhere?
<jcater> i.e., can I change the format? :)
<jamest> no it's not
<jamest> and I didn't like the gfd format to begin with
<jamest> so feel free to change it
<jcater> ok
<jcater> I'm going to make the provider='odbc' and take all the special meaning out of it
<jcater> (that overly complicated stuff)
<jamest> YES!
<jamest> exactly what I was hoping for :)
<jcater> the subproviders, etc can go into the service="" string
<jamest> argh!
<jcater> yes
<jamest> mouse, evil
<jcater> I agree
<jcater> you still working on that?
<jcater> :)
<jamest> oh crap
<jamest> tell me 
<jamest> why is self.instance.gridHeight = 21 when the widget is only about 13 pixels?
<jcater> um
[14:18] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<jcater> I dunno
<jamest> volume?
<jcater> I copied those calculations from UIwxpython
<jcater> that's my only excuse
<jamest> you poor bastard
<jcater> but it draws correctly
<jcater> ??
<jamest> :)
<jamest> there is some voodoo in UIwxpython
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> well, then
<jamest> as you can't really get the height/width of a font set
<jcater> I guess you could say Designer is "dabbling in voodoo" :)
<jamest> in wxwindows
<jamest> go figure
<jcater> I am confused
<jcater> but that's no surprise
<jamest> it gives a value but it's not right
<jcater> lol
<jamest> as its the text in the widget not the widget itself
<jcater> sounds like a solid algorithm to me :)
<jamest> or some bullshit
<jamest> i don't recall the details beyond the fact that I'd rather not recall the details
<jamest> as it was a PITA
<jcater> lol
<jcater> there are quite a few wxWindowisms
<jcater> Designer has quite a few
<jcater> especially when dealing w/events!
<jcater> gawd that was a nightmare
<jamest> tell me about it
<jcater> <sigh>
<jcater> now I have to install xforms for lyx
<jamest> speaking of designer
<jamest> bwahahahahahaah
<jamest> i have something I want you to try
<jcater> ok
<jamest> update from cvs
<jamest> and try the new mouse code
<jamest> i moved things back into the widget handler btw :)
<jamest> We're playing musical OnMotion
<jcater> and it works there?
<jamest> yes
Action: jcater mumbles under his breath
<jamest> ?
<jamest> what?
<jcater> just teasing
<jamest> :)
<jcater> well, x works beautifully
<jamest> Y is a bit odd
<jamest> you must move more than 1/2 a girdwidth in y
<jamest> so click at top of widget and move down 
<jamest> and it shoudl jump ok
<jcater> but to move back up, you have to reclick at top
<jamest> you have to reclick at bottom
<jamest> and move upward more than 1/2 a widget :(
<jamest> also I'm still wearing my wxTextControl made me it's bitch t-shirt
Action: jcater wonders if we shouldn't just put a little blue box at the top of the selection outline that they must click to drag
<jamest> i don't know
<jcater> but for 0.1.0, it looks perfect :)
<jamest> I'm close on the entry widgets
<jamest> honestly, you think so?
<jamest> and I'm sick of it
<jamest> and = as
<jamest> :)
<jcater> sure
<jcater> I can branch it too
<jcater> and do a 0.1.1 later on
<jamest> what's next big ticket in designer?
<jcater> 'cause I'd like to adapt your code for resizing the widgets too
<jcater> well
<jcater> need to clean up the UI system
<jcater> ... add drag and drop support for automatically pulling fields/datasources
<jcater> ... generalize the designer code so that it can be used w/reports/etc
<jcater> ... use BOA (if installed) for code editing
<jcater> but I'm not sure of the priorities
<jamest> so on our list
<jamest> argh
<jamest> sorry, didn't see your stuff
<jcater>     (actually, BOA will give us CVS editing, etc)
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<jamest> on the prerelease list
<jcater> but that's low on my priority list :)
<jamest> from today
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<jamest> where are we?
<jcater> um
<jamest> if we say mouse is done for now
<jamest> and I switch to win32
<jcater> I cleaned up the exception handling
<jamest> it works now?
<jcater> but it could be tested better :)
<jamest> bwahahaha
<jcater> I think so
<jcater> right now I'm working on ODBC
<jcater> which wasn't on our list
<jamest> whoops!
<jcater> but I thought might be important
<jcater> :)
<jamest> insert a duplicate key into table
<jamest> hmmmm
<jamest> gnuef used to generate pop up dialogs and recover when a dberror was encountered
<jamest> now it's doing things like
<jamest> GFForm: Unexpected Exception:
<jamest> ------------------------------------------------------------
<jamest> Traceback (most recent call last):
<jamest>   File "/home/jamest/cvs/gnue/gnuef/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFForm.py", line 336, in commit
<jamest> <snip>
<jamest> ConnectionError: ERROR:  Cannot insert a duplicate key into unique index zipcode_pkey
<jamest>  
<jamest> INSERT INTO zipcode (zip,state,city) VALUES ('66506','KS','MANHATTAN')
<jamest> ------------------------------------------------------------
<jamest> is that what you added?
<jcater> oops
<jcater> no
<jcater> :)
<jcater> ok, so that's still on our list
Action: jamest must once again rain down like hellfire upon the unsuspecting caffeine residing in my kitchen
<jcater> dcc me some
<jcater> oh, wait.. I'm using NAT
<jcater> sigh
<jamest> :)
<jamest> damn
<jcater> ok, think I got it
<jcater> damn?
<jamest> yes, damn
<jamest> gnue.py is installed in python20/lib
<jamest> so it's screwing up in not finding python20/gnue/*
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> I want to look at gnue.py again today
<jcater> maybe we should just comment that out of setup.py and save it for later
<jcater> I want to get GNUe.py working as I think that'll be very useful (although I *really* wanted it in the 0.1.0 release :(  )
<jamest> well
<jamest> I'm trying to remember what we're currently using it for
<jcater> currently
<jcater> nothing
<jcater> (except for non-GNUe uses of gnue-common)
<jamest> well, is that my non-gnue use of gnue-common?
<jamest> or is someone else using it
<jcater> no one yet
<jcater> I was planning on it
<jamest> could we simply rename?
<jcater> yes
<jamest> gnue-config.py?
<jcater> fine w/me
<jamest> or we're we putting more than config stuff in there?
<jcater> um
<jcater> not exactly sure yet
<jcater> right now, that's all I was thinking (plus it could modify self.path)
<jamest> gnue-sys.py?
<jcater> that might work
<jamest> all lowercase ok w/ you?
<jcater> yip
<jcater> will dashes cause any problems?
<jamest> we'll find out soon :)
<jamest> yes, yes it does
<jcater> I know; I know... import argh
<jcater> yes, it works; or, yes, it caues problems?
<jamest> cause problems
<jamest> gnue-sys = gnue minus sys
<jamest> :)
<jamest> as least it seems to not like it much
<jcater> lol
<jcater> yes we want to take over the system
<jcater> so it must be gnue - sys :)
<jamest> :)
<jamest> argh!
<jamest> i can't make it stop installing GNUe.py
<jcater> :)
<jamest> a little thing like changing the name in setup.py doesn't seem to help :)
<jcater> whoever wrote that must've been on crack
<jamest> i don't recall who wrote it
<jamest> so I'll agree
<jamest> and hope it was you :)
<jamest> now that's just evil
<jcater> what?
<jcater> there's a LOT of voodoo going on w/distutils
<jcater> sigh
<jamest> it's not in setup.py at all
<jamest> yet gnue.py won't die!
<jcater> rm -f build.1
<jcater> rm -rf build.1
<jamest> i did that
<jcater> oh
<jcater> dang.. that's one helluva setup program then :)
<jamest> :)
<jcater> argh!
<jamest> wha?
<jcater> argh!
<jcater> I dunno
<jcater> I'm giving feedback on commit errors
<jcater> but it's not recovering like I'd expect
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> it may be a flaw in GDataObjects
<jcater> I think we need to save the state of a record before a commit attempt; in case of a problem during a commit, the earlier records need to reset their unsaved state
<jamest> oooo
<Mr_You> re
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<jcater> jamest: can I get your opinion?
<jcater> I have two options here
<jcater> 1.  Each recordset, when asked to commit, can save their state and implement a method that can be called that will restore that state, or
<jcater> 2. Do a 2-stage commit in which the first state, it saves all data to the database and the second state (after all records are saved) it resets its internal data
<jcater> or, 3. Pretend like I didn't see this problem :)
<jcater> <sigh>
<jcater> Of course, 2 won't work with a database driver that doesn't do transactions
<jcater> but there's no reliable way of knowing if transactions are working
<jcater> of course, anyone who uses a non-transactional system w/a system like this needs their head examined anyway :)
<jcater> jamest: did I lose you?
<jamest> :)
<jcater> hmm
<jamest> I'm trying to remember how the old system worked
<jcater> I was hoping for more than a smiley :)
<jamest> i was thinking it'd hold the records in memory
<jamest> so you could correct the problem and resubmit
<jamest> but it was all or nothgin
<jamest> so any error would attempt to rollback the databases
<jcater> right
<jcater> that's how it does it now
<jamest> and if the db didn't support transactions that's the db admins problem
<jamest> :)
<jcater> lol
<jcater> I guess method #2 would be best
<jcater> as it could also be used to 
<jcater> requery that particular record for 
<jcater> databases that support it
<jcater> uggh
<jcater> I wasn't expecting all this :(
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> can we wait until a later version for this and 
<jcater> put a disclaimer in the README that says
<jcater> WARNING: DON'T MAKE MISTAKES WITH THIS PROGRAM
<jcater> :)
<jamest> i guess so
<jamest> i guess I don't understand the problem
<jamest> what's not recovering?
<jcater> ok
<jcater> say I query 10 records
<jcater> I have a resultset with 10 recordsets
<jcater> I change the first 3 
<jcater> which causes the _updateFlag's to be set on those records
<jcater> and I insert a new record at the end
<jcater> I go to commit the changes
<jcater> and it performs the updates on the first 3
<jcater> and resets the _updateFlag (since they've been updated)
<jcater> then inserts the last one
<jcater> but it generates an error
<jcater> so the 3 updates are rolled back
<jcater> I need to save those _updateFlag s in case this happens
<jamest> ah
<jcater> I'm not sure whether I should save the flags in a temporary variable
<jcater> and then implement a method that can be called in case of a later failure that restores them
<jcater> or do a 2-step commit
<jcater> in which all the db activity takes place
<jcater> and then all the internal consistency resets take place
<jcater> I'm now wondering if #2 would add more overhead than #1
<jcater> as all records would be traversed twice instead of once
<jamest> well
<jcater> but then again, I'm not sure
<jamest> on #2 are you worried about the extra lag in the UI
<jcater> no... this has nothing to do with forms or the UI
<jamest> i mean during it's resetting of the internal state
<jamest> (which btw will be more complicated w/ record caching :)
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<jcater> sigh
<jcater> yes, that is a concern
<jcater> any suggestions??
<jamest> I'd say ignore
<jamest> for the 0.1.0 of common
<jamest> as the geas driver updates will require a 0.1.x release anyway
<jcater> ok
<jamest> and this won't effect forms at all
<jamest> are the exceptions working now?
<jcater> yip
<jcater> well, kinda
<jamest> damn
<jamest> i have gnuef working under 2.0 python
<jcater> I'm committing if you wanna try
<jamest> and now I can't find a binary postgresql driver for python 2.0 on windows 
<jcater> :(
<jamest> all I can find are for 2.1
<jamest> figures
<jcater> hehe
<jamest> can I update yet?
<jcater> yes
<jamest> ok
<jcater> oops.. it updated my incomplete odbc file
<jcater> don't assume that's working :)
<jamest> :)
<jamest> login w/ invalid name aborts program
<jamest> commit errors handled nicely
<jcater> argh!
<jcater> the former should abort after 4 bad attempts
<jcater> lemme look
<jamest> hasn't done that since the new drivers were brought online :)
<jamest> that I recall
<jcater> yeah, yeah
<jamest> well, i can't test windows db drivers
<jamest> as I can't find a fscking binary and I don't have a c compiler to build drivers from source
<jamest> btw I'm in GConnections
<jamest> commited small change in there
<jamest> grrr designer won't install on win32
<jamest> i think I'm going to go practice some taekwondo for a bit with the wife
<jcater> k
<jamest> be be in about 1 hr
<jcater> have fun
<jamest> then I'll try and get desginer working on win32
<jamest> it complains about missing templates or something after an install 
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> well
<jcater> does it even install on linux :)
<jamest> dunno :)
<jamest> i'll check later :)
<jamest> back
<jamest> :)
<jamest> for a few, she's budy
<jcater> she kick your butt that quickly?
<jamest> busy
<jamest> twice
<jcater> ok
<jcater> fixed the login bombing problem
<jcater> you now have 4 chances, then it bombs :)
<jcater> and it's committed
<jamest> cool
<jamest> lol
<jamest> gfdesigner doesn't install on linux either
<jamest> hmmm
<jamest> it's not installing the tempaltes
<jcater> :)
<jamest> but
<jcater> hmm
<jamest> you've got them listed in the package dir
<jcater> wierd
<jamest> so it seems it should be installing them
<jcater> <sigh>
<jcater> I love distutils
[16:28] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<jamest> got it
<jamest> i think
<jamest> yip
<jcater> mucho excellante
<jamest> well, it installs
<jamest> I still need to run it :)
<jcater> I'm guessing wizards won't work
<jamest> argh
<jcater> that bad, eh?
<jamest> :)
<jcater> you know much about ODBC dsn's??
<jamest> in a previous life (circa 1993) I used them a fair amount
<jamest> what's wrong?
<jcater> what's the standard for a dsn?
<jcater> how do they look normally?
<jamest> I used them in VB and IIRC they seperated everything out into specific arguemnts
<jamest> and to set them up I used odbc manager
<jamest> I don't recall any ascii configs
<jamest> I've noticed recently that odbc has system, user, and IIRC file dsns
<jamest> but I don't recall having to ever deal w/ that
<jcater> sigh
<jamest> rock!
<jcater> yes?
<jamest> designer will now install on windows and linux and wizards (on linux) work fine
<jcater> :)
<jamest> however......
<jcater> :(
<jamest> running designer on windows results in 
<jamest> This program has performed an illegal op.......
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<jcater> have you run with -d#
<jcater> to see how far it gets?
<jamest> just did
<jamest> uiwxpython line 67
<jamest> wxapp initializing3
<jamest> then it bombs
<jcater> sigh
<jamest> wife is now ready to practice
<jcater> ok
<jamest> I'm commiting and will look at when I return
<jamest> was there anything else I needed to test?
<jcater> I dunno
<chillywilly> hey hey hey
<jcater> chillywilly: 'sup
<chillywilly> deadlock is what is up :(
<chillywilly> gah
<jcater> ?
<chillywilly> 2 threads waiting on each other
<chillywilly> maybe one of them got suspended and still holds a mutex? ugh!
<jcater> in designer?>
<chillywilly> no
<chillywilly> that thing I was working on
<jcater> GSim?
<chillywilly> yep
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<jcater> chillywilly: you remember when masta's getting back?
<chillywilly> nope
<jbailey> He said "A week".  I guess that was from Tue or Wed.
<jcater> ok
<chillywilly> I say leave the man be :P
<jamest> like he'd do that with us
<jamest> :)
<jcater> jamest: I got LyX installed, but it doesn't know what to do with the docbook-book textclass
<jcater> any suggestions?
<jamest> debian system?
<jcater> now, jamest
<jcater> 'course not
<jamest> ah
<jcater> that'd be to simple
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<jamest> well, I think you'd have to find the sgmltools rpms
<jcater> ok
<jamest> as I think they provide docbook support
Action: jamest is away: Pizza run!
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> how do you do the away messages?
<chillywilly>  /away message
Action: jcater is away: grocery store
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Action: jamest is back (gone 00:45:29)
<jamest> ahhhhh
<jamest> pizza
<chillywilly> gimme some
<jamest> :)
<chillywilly> we got roats though
<chillywilly> er, roast
<chillywilly> been cooking for a couple hours
<chillywilly> smeels damn good
<chillywilly> smells even
<ajmitch> you got goats, you say?
<chillywilly> goat roast
<chillywilly> yes
<chillywilly> mmm mmm mmm
<chillywilly> no more goat raping when you just decide to kill the bastards
<ajmitch> you're just sick
<chillywilly> look who's talking
Action: chillywilly is away: dinner
<jamest> sourceforge down?
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:28:10)
<chillywilly> buuuuuurrrrrp!
Action: jcater is back (gone 01:07:15)
<ajmitch> don't be rude
<chillywilly> don't make me trout slap you then
<ajmitch> hah
<ajmitch> i am sooo scared of the trout
Action: chillywilly trout slaps ajmitch with the quickness
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<jamest> damn, 
<jamest> that was close
<jcater> :)
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<jamest> ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Action: jamest is away: heading for the hills
<derek> hi :)
Action: derek is off to watch the diamondbacks
<jamest> hi
<derek> figured woudl check email as it might take a bit (looks like about 1100 out there)
<derek> btw: disney might be money hungry greedy suns a biotchs
<derek> but they know how to make amusement parks
<derek> bbs
<jamest> yeah, i hear they put funs things to do there instead of crappy things
<jcater> the nerve
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<chillywilly> disney licks my bag
<chillywilly> wb derek (masta)
<jcater> chillywilly: really?
Action: chillywilly is also watchin the world series
<jcater> how much t5hey charge for that/
<jcater> ?
<chillywilly> too much
<chillywilly> greedy bastards
<chillywilly> it is still 0 to 0
<chillywilly> :(
<chillywilly> booooooring
<chillywilly> oh crap
<chillywilly> d-backs are up sheet creek
<ajmitch> hehe
<dtm> does anyone here speak French? :)
<dtm> derek: hey   do you want me to help at ALS?
<dtm> i'm available
<ajmitch> scary..
<jamest> dereks off playing
<dtm> jamest: ok
<jamest> but I don't think we have anyone there
<dtm> does anyone else know what's up with gnue and als?
<dtm> he axed me a couple weeks ago but hasn't responded to my emails
<dtm> i sent it to dneighbo@gnue.org -- is that best?
<ajmitch> jamest: weren't you planning a dawn raid on ALS to setup a grand GNUe booth?
<jcater> ajmitch: I think the grand raid was on the visiting Cheerleading Camp
<jcater> and I don't think it had anything to do w/GNUe
<ajmitch> ah, ok
<jcater> :P
<jamest> lol
<chillywilly> rofl
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<jcater> so, those diamondbacks get creamed yet¿
<derek> dtm: i speak french
<derek> dtm: derek@gnue.org is best
<derek> btw: the dbacks won :)
<jamest> about time
<jamest> checkout cvs and start testing there disney-boy
<ajmitch> hehe
<jamest> were trying to do a release here 
<jcater> yeah, you leave for a week and we get work done
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<jcater> a coincidence?
<jamest> rofl
<ajmitch> hehe
Action: ajmitch will have to wait for it to cool down before he can do some work...
<derek> rofl
<derek> no kidding over 1000 emails and 800 are from the cvs commit list
<ajmitch> geez
<ajmitch> commits on what parts?
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<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I hate computers
<ajmitch> why is that, o jcater?
<jcater> they are a pita
Action: derek likes to eat pita's
Action: derek looks at computer, (he's not that hungry)
<jamest> who told you you could start eating
<jamest> we're talking forms, designer, common 0.1.0s in the pipeline
<jamest> and youre talking pitas
<derek> btw: i think i have convinced that next gnue conference can be in kansas city
<derek> provided opening day is at worlds of fun
<ajmitch> what about GEAS?
<jamest> i have no idea on geas
<jamest> the geas driver for gnue-common will be a 0.1.1 release
Action: derek cant test tonight :(
<derek> i can tomorrow though
<jamest> as it needs more work 
<jamest> part of the motivatoin to moving to 0.1.0 is we can relase tiny things like that w/o requireing new forms/designer
<jcater> derek: but we decided while you were gone to have a developers conference ... in Vegas!!
<jcater> err, at least I decided that
<jcater> 'course, I could live w/being the only one there
<ajmitch> hey, what about NZ?
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> if I could afford to get there, I'd *love* to visit NZ
<jamest> lol
<ajmitch> doesn't cost that much to swim
<jcater> from tennessee?
<jcater> I'm landlocked
<ajmitch> oh, my condolences
Action: ajmitch can see otago harbour from here
<jcater> I can see my kitchen sink from here
<ajmitch> put some wheels on that then
<ajmitch> and a motor
<ajmitch> when you get to the see, put the plug in, & start paddling
<jcater> (but that's because my bro-in-law hasn't gotten his crap outta my office)
<ajmitch> s/see/sea/
<jcater> rofl
<jamest> l8r
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<derek> vegas works for me
<dtm> derek: ok so you've told me how to reiterate my question to you.  :)
<derek> its drivable
<ajmitch> it's pretty hard to be landlocked in NZ :)
Action: dtm consults the crystal ball to discover his fate with ALS
<dtm> derek: can you translate this to french?  "Have a seat and rest your feet, please."
<dtm> derek: i also have a verse
<jcater> I can translate that to USA Southern: "seet yar arse down thar"
<dtm> derek:  "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."
Action: ajmitch recognises that verse
<derek> um that would be an odd translation
<derek> as have a seat and rest
<derek> are both reposer
<derek> to rest
<ajmitch> matt 11:28
<derek> i.e. to them that is redundant
<dtm> jcater: hehe thanks
<dtm> derek: that's fine
<ajmitch> derek: grab a french translation & look it up then, i can't remember french that well :)
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<derek> s'il vous plait repos
<derek> woul be please rest
<dtm> derek: i'd prefer that verse, but i'll fall back on something simpler as long as it's French and ends in "please"
<derek> ok
<derek> prenez un seige et reposez vos pieds, s'il vous plait
<derek> that is
<derek> 'take a seat and rest your feet, please'
<derek> literally
<derek> im sure there is a french slang equiv some how, but i just learned from lousy highschool french teacher :)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> it's been a couple of years since i took french at HS...
<dtm> derek: so how about that verse?
Action: jcater is GNUe'd out
<jcater> night all
<dtm> jcater: take care
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<derek> on that one probably best to go online
<derek> to a french bible translation
<derek> and enter that verse
<derek> and get a real translation
<ajmitch> Venez a moi, vous tous qui etes accabl?s sous le poids d'un lourd fardeau, et je vous donnerai du repos.
<derek> better than me giving a 'literal' one
<ajmitch> xchat don't like accented characters
<ajmitch> http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=Matt+11%3A28&version=BDS-IBS&showfn=yes&showxref=yes&language=french
<dtm> ajmitch: wow
<dtm> thanks guys
<dtm> derek: so what about ALS?
<derek> i thought it already left
Action: dtm attempts to translate that request into Derekese
<dtm> eh?  you say ALS is over with
<dtm> ?
<dtm> what's its url
<derek> i thought it was this last weekend?
<derek> no?
<derek> ?
<dtm> it's in Nov
<derek> ah nov 5th - 10th
<dtm> heh
<derek> we dont have a booth and arent piggy backed on any booth 
<derek> i didnt know if you were available so i didnt configure anything with FSF
Action: ajmitch knows a couple of gstreamer guys are going anyway
<derek> FSF will be there and surely you can promote us there :)
<dtm> derek: oh i gues syou didn't get the email
<derek> i have been gone :(
<dtm> derek: i emailed dneighbo@gnue.org
<dtm> derek: ok
<derek> just got home tonight
<dtm> ahhh
<dtm> well ihopeyou had a good trip
<derek> yes VERY good
<derek> didnt want to come back
<dtm> ok
<dtm> awww
<dtm> where to?
<derek> disneyland/california adventure
<dtm> wow
<dtm> i went to disneyland once
<dtm> it was nice
<dtm> and cheap entry
<dtm> ajmitch: thanks a lot man   that url works great
<dtm> ajmitch: this is going on some art my mom's making and selling
<dtm> on a chair
<ajmitch> heh, ok
<dtm> selling it to someone from church
<dtm> so thanks guys
<ajmitch> cool
<chillywilly> disney can kiss my arse!!!
<chillywilly> actually I am in the mood where I feel like saying hey everyone can kiss my arse
<chillywilly> weeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<dtm> thank you for granting us that capability, dan.
<dtm> i'll cherish it
<chillywilly> that's good to know
--- Mon Nov  5 2001