[00:08] Last message repeated 1 time(s). great i dont recall you ever telling me what you do at your job and you probably can't be persuaded to tell me now. due to your persistant funkitude umm, he sits around on irc all day ;) funkitude? Action: chillywilly is a Life Safety Inspector inspect fire alarms, security systems, etc. booooooring but it is paying my bills for now the company was Simplex Time Recirder Company or Simplex for short Recorder but they got bought out by Tyco this big nasty billion dollar corp. it's paying your bills? wow i can work at least half the day and barely pay mine i pay mine based on ~20hrs/week break even who do you work for ? clients? me ok yeah yea well you need more cleunts then dude ;) clients right go get em! Action: dtm sics dan on clients the are now SimplexGrinnell the compant that I am slaving away for company I;m looking to move up to get a programming position :P sounds good dan i bet your fmaily is proud of you, as are we Action: ajmitch claps & cheers chillywilly_ (danielb@d149.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d143.as2.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Ping timeout for chillywilly[d143.as2.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net] psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hey psu Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly hi aj i assume everyone else is actually asleep and just logging not everyone, i hope :) but it's been dead in here for the last half hour I'll give you some good news you can pass onto the others when they surface (or they can just read their scroll back as usual) ok Zack Brown and myself have been swapping e-mails over the weekend and he should have the first issue of GNUe Kernel Cousins up this evening w00t! :) (no time zone specified) should be good ;) might get some decent coverage for GNUe :) Not sure of the exact URL you've done a good job, organising all this but http://kt.zork.net/ should get you there hopefully don't see it yet i vote that derek increase your pay 250%! :) (from $0 to $0) ;) the first week's is all IRC but next week's will have a real, live mail thread ;-) I think/hope Zack's found it interesting too cool with me trying to "bend" his KC mail list format to fit the - erm less structured yay, my python coding is working again conventions of IRC Action: ajmitch will have to contribute to GNUe soon ;) You could write me an auto-summariser... umm now *that* would be an impressive bit of AI Action: ajmitch dunno how easy that would be hehe now now, i'm only a 1st year uni student, i'm only meant to know the basics of java ;) i think we's probably have to go fat client for that... ok, my python coding is not going too good after all.... ;) but it's getting there time to read the docs ;) "always read the instructions, even if you don't follow them" hah this is coding programmers are lazy The f1 key is your friend trust the f1 key umm f1 doesn't call up the wxpython help for me :) Hey, yesterday's log is 37k yeah, some interesting stuff and some random crap ;) you mean wxpython hasn't "embraced and extended" the M$ "standard" big log yesterday certainly for a Sun either there's been lots of new development devlopments (err.) or cw's been trout-slapping again ;-) hehe jamest & jcater had a long discussion Action: chillywilly trout slaps all k()()l. Action: ajmitch wants to see KC GNUe up on linuxtoday.com where is GNUe KC? Action: chillywilly is at that url am I friggin' blind? not up yet, will be up later w00t, muh app werks (sorta) now to fix up my big screwups :) you need help if you were M$, that would make it "Release Candidate 1" when i resized the array, i didn't realise i was just appending duplicate references so every cell in the array has the same contents i gotta make it so an array resize makes new cells, not just new refs to the same cell Action: ajmitch thinks a knowledge of C & java has helped in his education yes, even java.... cw - will be reachable later today at http://kt.zork.net/ but give Zack some time to catch some zzz first bah he doesn't need sleep no sleep for the wicked Action: ajmitch broke his committment & bought caffiene & V for the night i've been about 4 weeks without any caffiene really, i think i can say i'm not addicted ;) but tonight, i need to stay up all night :) Action: ajmitch wishes all the others were gone so he could crank up some music i am not a natural all-nighter i can do it without too many problems last two were General Election 2001 and General Election 1997 i've done till 5am on 1 cup of coffee, and i went to bed cos i ran out of stuff to do :) 2001 I actually went to work the next day... yeah i've done that we must be mad allnight doing an assignment, then go to lectures the next morning bah, that is like typical for college students yep i don't mind it too much :) this semester i never started until 11am :) you won't catch me doing it anymore though now that I have graduated :P nice lazy bum :P I hate night classes though hated it is in the early hours of the morning that you become one with the code.... whatever with my last employer, because the code has infested your mind & is driving you mad ;) after 2 years ajmitch: caffeine & V? what's "V"? I had worked every hour of the day dtm: an energy drink except 3 am to 4 am oh a;jfwopue (excluding air travel, which doesn't really count) who let him loose? dtm: it has warnings not to have more than 4 or 5 cans a day Action: chillywilly chains down dtm I once managed 26 chargeable hours in one day haha flying Alaska to home hoped I'd crash the time recoding system but sadly it can cope with up to 99 hours a day doh ajmitch: heh dtm: it's best to have a couple of cans of V or similar right before an exam - it's impossible to get to sleep in the exam ;) reinhard (rm@62.47.44.7) joined #gnuenterprise. UK seeems to be getting more relaxed about energy drinks heh hey reinhard used to be all you could get was Lucozade ouch (advt. by Lara Croft) ajmitch: but you'll probably have to drink before the test, whatever you drank while studying, in order to concentrate and remember :) dtm: well, i don't really drink anything while studying (apart from water, usually) dude everytime I would drink mountain dew before an exam I would have to piss like crazy cw - GIGO made it hard to concentrate on the exam hehe psu: wtf/. ? GIGO = garbage in, garbage out Action: ajmitch waits for KC GNUe to appear...... or, as they say here, "you don't buy beer, you rent it." heh Action: chillywilly looks at his deadlocked code :'( I suck gotta go now bye I will check when GNUe Kernel Cousins is up & notify the mail lists also the www.gnue.org front page TTFN l8r psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d149.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error to chillywilly[d149.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net]: EOF from client RockTiger (rocktigr@2ppp9.poi.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch: Howdy again! hi Before I turned in I thought I'd look - and here is the channel. Woohoo1! I have to say, I am getting very interested in this - this enterprise stuff is the key stuff right now, IMHO. yep GNU has the infrastructure, but for corporate interest to really take off, we need to bring them the GNU benefits. And this is what is sexy to them, if we get it to work (and why shouldn't we?) And then the web service are just a layer on top of the accounting, HR, CRM, etc. sounds fun, eh? ;) You betcha! we're getting the tools together... Or, as we used to say in the Marines: oooooooooooRAH! As a professional, I am *sooo* tired of the proprietary stuff. yes Supporting it (trying to). Getting it to do what the company needs (trying to), etc., etc. So. ooooooooooooRAH! hehe hehehe Once these are in place, the FD should really take off, too. yeah just a matter of time & lotsa hard work Ohhh, yeah. But, hey, what else is there to do? Stagnate with the old stuff? Yikes! And if we don't do it, somebody else will? maybe somebody else won't provide Free tools tho Probably not. And if you want something done right . . . DIY do it yer bloody self ;) where are you, btw? Hawaii. You? New Zealand A Kiwi! Cool. Actually, I'm thinking of taking a vacation - been to W Oz, never NZ tho. cool Springtime there? come down to the south island yeah, getting into summer soon I've friends who can't say enough good about NZ. And were Yanks! we're :) it's quite a nice place especially if you like scenic sorta areas Oh yeah. Hiking, esp. it's great for that ;) Lot of open/free software interest in the professional community there? You at work now? http://ajmitch.dhis.org/pics/Lake.JPG <- a pic from one of my hiking trips nope at home there is a bit of interest in open/free software getting better, but NZ companies still tend to go the MS way Same here. And Hawaii is *very* conservative in such matters. Drives me bonkers, it does. NZ companies don't tend to be too bad *very* scenic pic, BTW. yeah, quite nice :) Like a calendar or somethin that's on one of the tracks down this way as you can guess, this part of the country is very popular for hiking, etc ;) My, Oh yes, I can understand that! last year i went on a week-long trip to the west coast (very remote area) only about 50 people use the track i went on a year was quite fun to get away from it all (went as a school group) Woohoo! man I hope some of these small businesses pirating software get whats coming.. for example some are so clueless they don't realize they could use staroffice and be legal yes Actually, Hawaii has some surprisingly good hiking, too. i'm trying to convince my parents to use openoffice I bet Rock staroffice.com is down because of "a power failure has damaged our main host" my parent's business is not exactly up with licensing (and they only have 2 computers...) I know several people switching to open/staroffice right now. only problem is that mum uses MS access quite a bit for simple databases Common problem. Postgres has pgaccess, though. man some people in my LUG are funny, we're on IRC comparing electrocution stories ;) i mean nice simple stuff, like with forms, etc :) the sorta thing GNUe could be used for Really? Ah yes, the GNU Forms? yeah need a nice graphical DB designer tho for those simple databases So, you're doing it to help mom too, then? hehe i guess ;) she uses some proprietary windows accounting software tho And why not? Good a reason as any, better than some. dunno how well wine would run it :) Doesn't wine require MS Windws licences? nope OS, I mean. vmware or win4lin does but wine has it's own implementation of most of the win32 dlls Thats right, remeber now. since Wine Is Not an Emulator :) hehe mum knows that linux mandrake is on her computer, i've shown her how to login & use it another problem is winmodem driver... WHy is winmodem needed? that's what they have :) Oh. i don't think the windows copy is entirely legal (stupid person that installed it....) sheesh yeah... I like my cable modem.. 200-300KBps i really need to get them converted :) thats > than dual T1s I'm holding out for DSL Mr_You: i'm on a 33.6k modem :) I'm on 56K DSL might be more reliable than my timewarners network, but when it works its faster than DSL my modem is over 4 years old, still working there is only one DSL provider in this country and apparantly they *suck* at reliability Cable *is* faster, downstream only. Action: ajmitch just loves nationwide monopolies I hope I never have to use dialup again.. I hope at some point I'm using 3G cell service as dialup replacement ;-) i don't think NZ has the population density for cable to be cheap ajmitch: Covad sucks, they schedule maint. at 9am til 11am They all do that not all dunedin (where i currently live) is meant to be about the 4th largest city in the world in terms of land area (dunno how) but only has 110K people ;) any smartly ran ISP knows to do work in the early hours to not have to deal with support calls heh at least they should I'm creating a mirror wooding for myself.. wooding? Mr_You: U a Kiwi 2? RockTiger: so are you gonna come over to NZ for a holiday? ;) Very possible, ajmitch. Very. nah a hawaiian? tell me when, i've got a 3 & 1/2 month break starting on sunday ;) what is kiwi? Mr_You: think of andrewm... besides a fruit Action: ajmitch troutslaps Mr_You a kiwi is a bird ;) Mr_You: naw, 'haole' (white guy/foreigner) 3.5 months? its 3:30am don't work my brain we call the fruit a kiwifruit, the national bird is a kiwi RockTiger: yep East coast, Mr_You? summer holiday for university or Kiwi == new zealand citizen ajmitch: If i vacation, would probably be in that time frame. I'll keep you posted. RockTiger: ok Thanks. And, now, I'm off to the pub for a nightcap! yeah night hehe night Nite, all. Nice talkin' at ya. RockTiger (rocktigr@2ppp9.poi.net) left #gnuenterprise. umm.. I must be dumb, cause I can't find woody cvs root http://www.vnz.co.nz/photos/specials/javadoubt.shtml <-- i like that effect ;) yeah me too man I need some cold medicine again uggh, night Action: Mr_You & night jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ good day morning jamest you seem to make a forms & friends release? getting ready to going to push 0.1.0 out the door you really wanna push them out the door? it's cold outside now ;) hey jamest chillywilly (baumannd@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hey chillywilly hey hey you at work or what? yes kewl using putty to irc from ash i'm just getting stuff working finally in python ;) ah, ok like what i was doing in balclutha I guess so damn some bugs are annoying at this time of the morning reinhard: i will try and work on the geas driver some today for inclusion reinhard: but there's lots to do there reinhard: so I kinda figure geas driver will be part of 0.1.1 of gnue-common especially if we come across issues but isn't it BugFree(TM)? yes, but I think NZ'r have a different definition of BugFree(TM) than the rest of us :) hehe jamest: please remember that the api is still subject to discussion betwen the two of us if it compiles/runs, it's bugfree, no? reinhard: yip, I understand you guys want to read something funny ajmitch: it is really bugfree AFAICT reinhard: wow reinhard: how many LOC? BUT gnue/gnuef/samples/history/first.gfd there are other things that make a code bad than bugs poor design? read that file and look at the date of derek's comment and what he was getting ready to package rofl haha i think we missed our target date by a few days hmm, nearly 3am i wonder if i shoudl start on the caffiene why did you stop on it? stopped a few weeks back actually i had a couple of cans of this energy drink tonight ajmitch: on what can make code bad (or good), you could read http://freesoftware.fsf.org/download/style-guide/style-guide.html#Introduction reinhard: ahhh... does that apply to python? ;) Action: ajmitch has been python hacking tonight jamest: wxpython is useful ;) wxpython is evil too how so? lots of oddities yep docs aren't *too* bad ajmitch: it basically applies to every language even logo ;) although the style discussion mailing list still hasn't many subscribers :( which needs more work, GEAS or forms/designer, etc? GEAS :) ok although this is not 100% true minaly C coding, right? as we are looking at sharing larger portions of code than we did before ok so probably you can't distinct that much from now on yes C coding there is opportunity for someone like me to help out? Action: ajmitch wonders if his boss would like to use some of this stuff ;) lots first of all you would want to understand the basic structure yep then you would pick a part of the code where you are not satisfied (i promise there will be such parts) hehe and improve it or you could look at improving portability i would want to look at being able to use it in a production environment chillywilly has some ideas of being able to use GNUe stuff along woth DotGNU production is probably only possible when you don't use the method stuff RockTigr & I were discussing some of that earlier well, if method stuff needs done, then i might have to look at that :) unless that's your area? nope i'll see what i can do it's actually what chilly wanted to look at whether i have time for it or not ok although its probably highly complex and now he has a job... i get on well with him, we might be able to work on it together maybe we need some coordinator and some simple coding slaves to get the whole system working :) hehe Action: ajmitch imagines reinhard standing holding a whip... Action: ajmitch sees some good stuff in that style guide argh, after 3am, concentration is slipping... dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hey dneighbo dneighbo: welcome back hey i hope you took the day off, as we need your, um, unique, abilites btw: i almost took two really interesting pictures but didnt was hoping you could test cvs designer and forms 1. 3 goats on pirates of caribbean ride (no flash photography allowed) :( and as you can find bugs where they don't exist 2. 1 goat on top of 'thunder mountain' ;) jamest : i came to work early dneighbo: how could you? so should be home early, then have to pick up car and fix something for hotel company then i am all yours for testing :) btw: psu, the kernel cousins look cool what are these kernel cousins VULNERABILITIES DISCOVERED IN Microsoft's free e-mail and Passport authentication services allowed a programmer to access credit card information stored on the company's servers, forcing it to shut down the electronic wallet feature in Passport until it can fix the problem, Microsoft confirmed Friday. now aint that just making people want hailstorm ;) are kc already up? yes gnue kc i mean? yes you are now quoted publicly about 'mad goat raping' reinhard haha http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/back-issues.html and where is the link on www.gnue.org? ;) reinhard not there yet :( woohoo, so GNUe hits the big-time media, eh? ;) gnue stuff for kc isnt on the 'main' link for KC it sems that all the KC issues are covered on linuxtoday.com (which has a big readership) oh, ok will be soon, i *hope* argh, i'm mentioned what? jamest: look at the link ok, what is this? who's doing it? and how? psu by trawling thru IRC logs it's a weekly summary of the GNUe project wow yup done by hand? mostly psu: Thank You someone submit this to linuxtoday.com, please :) ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. psu: info on the "Non-implemented keywords" thread: ************************* neilt and me agreed later to remove the READONLY keyword, too. btw: guess its time to fix up my irc2html converter In fact, PRIVATE, PUBLIC and READONLY are removed meanwhile. this will help a bit in 'linking' to relevant topics the changes are commited to cvs. ************************* also it has key word ability and 'notes' ability dneighbo: ooh, ok psu: info on the "Andrew Murie's Profiling Code" thread: ************************* dneighbo: i'm glad you've got one, psu was thinking about making the logs into html (but wasn't sure) In private mail conversation Andrew Murie himself told us he is not happy with that sort of "manual" profiling and that we would probably do better by removing it . So Neil and me agreed to remove it. This will be done in the next few days. ************************* over :) is andrewm still around? no well, on email, i mean i know he's not around GNUe any more (not sure if he's still at treshna) not at treshna not in gnue but aroudn on email he is ? I haven't seen any gnue list mail in ages i dont know if he is o nthe mail lists, but he gave us his email and told us we could email him with questions. i dont think anyone has for sometime but theoretically he is still around :) dneighbo: neilt and me have last week and he responded still reachable at andrewm@gnue.org :) wow hmm, 4am, i'm still making progress ;) ajmitch: this is too funny, you are just -12 hours from me :) exactly on the other side of the earth carefull, neither of you move we get imbalanced and we'll start to wobble Action: ajmitch gets out of his chair argh! we have been invited to new york for lwce do we want the booth? can i go? ;) dneighbo: I can't make it btw derek : someone (blanking on who) was willing to do ALS it's in yesterdays logs dtm masta of disasta uh oh, chillywilly is here quick, someone grab a trout Action: chillywilly waps ajmitch with a trout chillywilly: hah, my python skills are improving, i am making headway (at nearly 4:30am) with this app wrt profiling, I think it would be good to use gprof and rip out andrewm's code i just implemented in a few inutes what took me a couple of hours to get right in java :) chillywilly: what is wrong with current methods code, btw? gah, you still have not slept since I talked to you? nope :) wrong? nothing is wrong I just don't have time to do it yeah, how incomplete is the methods code? ok well i might, especially if i could convince my boss to find a use for GNUe (unlikely) :) dude python rocks :) it is not really incomplete per se, but it does not work how we want it to work...you can so methods in python and C thanks to neilt, he fixed up the current methods code s/so/do we need a plugin system for various langauges and code to allow you to mix and match at the class level like what I was talking about before in #freedevelopers jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. howdy heya ok ajmitch I was thinking like how gst does it's plugin caching...we could do that sorta thing with methods code hey jcater hmm, ok gstreamer uses glib for that, afaik well I'd like to use GObject, it has support for loading types from .so files yes which is the new glib i know and since GEAS is alpha anyway we should be ready for production by the time the new glib becomes stable ;) Gnome 2.0 release or what not yes i am just wondering if i will have time to do it :) i'll find out in the next week or so what i am doing what you are doing for work? yeah k i need to kill galeon... bah, this connection is soooo lagged [ajmitch @ ajmitch srct] ps axu |grep java ajmitch 26947 0.0 3.9 181156 15044 ? S Nov01 0:05 java_vm the java vm is sooooo leaky ;) it is a big fatpig 2.4.13 seems solid, still only using < 100MB swap Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away even with that java bloat ;) well I would expect now that VM is fixed it should be a bit better chillywilly: you checked out the premeiere of the KC GNUe series? dude, when a thread is suspended shouldn't it stop executing right at the spot you suspended it at? ajmitch it is up now? ajmitch: I saw that it's scary I don't know if I like being quoted Action: chillywilly will have ot use IE...blech chillywilly: yep, http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/back-issues.html they need python bindings to GObject my name will now live in infamy for the rest of my days..... wow, just freed heaps of ram closing galeon... (about 90MB) hmm, time to get up in a few hours, i'd better get working :) how to tell you are a hacker.... .. co-workers say "wow, you're in already, got up early huh" and you are thinking Action: chillywilly knows exactly what masta is gonna say next ... "hmmm its getting late, i should go to bed soon" man I need to go to bed lol hehe but it's not even 5am hehe Action: ajmitch hasn't even opened the 2.25L bottle of coke here ;) gah, broken link for the KC the "latest" link is b0rked the archives one works though yes dneighbo: I can fly to NY for under $200 time to actually test my code out properly ;) man I don't like being quoting this much either :P chillywilly: even *i* was quoted ah, bugger Segmentation fault [ajmitch @ ajmitch 0.2] hehe seems that i stressed the wxwindows lib a little doesn't gtk run in winders? yeah but i am using wxpython ;) far too latelto change it now hmmmmm so why do we use wxwindows in forms then? ask the forms ppl cause it gives us GTK, win32, Motif, and MacOS all in one shot GTK+ is like the GNU toolkit someone is more than welcome to write a new GTK specific driver for forms but GTK runs on those systems i intend to write a QT one myself once the rewrite is underway we can force the Gnome ppl to write portable code :P and I'd rather have a windows app look like a windows app on windows machines jamest that is just plain evil yip well at least you can make it look the way you want it to i must say that i agree with jamest here i would maybe even go further and say we might want a _native_ windows forms client ugh isn't that a bit too much code duplication? there shouldn't be too much intelligence in forms for n-tier imho rm-away: lets not forget that forms will always be both n-tier and 2-tier yes but there could be other implementations for n-tier clients that only work for n-tier and don't have the 2-tier stuff in jamest once called gnuef a "reference implementation" of a forms clients actually, the x-tier stuff is abstracted away from the UI so the UI writer knows nothing about the backend that sounds as if it were intended to have other implementations as well or shouldn't it were? it was? hmm... i think it was is correct... ;) does it matter? ;) chillywilly (baumannd@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) left irc: BitchX-1.0c17 -- just do it. forms is a reference implementation as I never see it running on things like Palm pilots and I'm not against people creating clients for win32 platforms written in the language of the week however I think forms works pretty well jamest: but wx and python run on PalmPilots, so why not :) they do? damn jamest needs a palm pilot for "testing" purposes :) Action: ajmitch needs to play with wxpython on an ipaq (running pocketpc - the renamed wince) just reading logs briefly i will go one step further having to install cygwin, x, etc to get gtk to 'work' is not having gtk 'work' on windows its have unix work on windows Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: Read error to Mr_You[mankind.boredom.org]: EOF from client which is an UNDUE prerequisite IMHO basically its like saying you should use unix but since you wont we will force you to install it anyhow on top of windows as to jamest and the qt remark QT me baby would love to see it, but actually would rather see you look at making wxQT instead of just adding native qt support to forms derek: there is a gtk+ port which does *not* require X so others can enjoy the owrk :) that's a major project in itself i've used the gimp on windows before - just one zip file to download, it ran fine much easier to write a gnuef UI wrapper to QT bbl jamest : yes easier but not as good for community Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo: you see my comment about tickets? hi yes i did so you willing to go? I'm considering i.e. you got 200 for a ticket and a place to stay? dunno what hotel fees would be the comfort inn i stayed at in nice part of town was like 69 a night probably cheaper now also if you dont mind staying with someone i can probably arrange a place for you to stay via FSF I don't mind as usually they make arrangements as long as they aren't homicidal i know that a fellow that authors gnue ADA lives down there and i was to stay with him before but never got a hold of him he lives elsewhere if you are considering i will fire off a mail to fsf and see if we can get you a place to shack up at and i will procure the booth from IDG where ya'll goin? perhaps nickr can help you there as he is in NY and Mr_You can take the train up one day :) and stu will stop by :) and and and Action: Mr_You takes a train to bangkok what event is this? Linux World Expo / NT err, NY ahh when? last week of January Jan 29-Feb 1 ??? ok jcater sent mail off to see if we can get you a spot to stay gratis if I can get out from under hotel fees, it'd be much more practical for me to go :) as $200+food+taxi fees ain't bad 'course, if wife wants to go, it's $400 + food + hotel + taxi fees :( + baby sitting == more than jcater makes is that daily, weekly, monthly, or annually? :) well, if she wants to go we'd have to fly from Memphis to Austin, TX drop off baby at grandparents then fly from Austin to NY man, you have to pay the grandparents to watch them bummer you need to teach your kid to be adorable arround them so they'd watch them for free nope he takes after me too much well, then I understand so it's $400 + food + hotel + taxi fees + baby sitting ($400 a day) man, that's about 5 grand a week! so its settled he is going :) and jamest is paying Action: dneighbo runs what days is it? hmm how "friendly" are friends of the FSF? they bath (usually) psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (baumannd@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ello did ajmitch got to bed yet? s/got/go anyone home? i'm here good job on the GNUe KC psu keeping low profile :) Action: chillywilly gets out his trout whipping machine psullivan (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. double trouble oh jamest ignore my other self psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout for psu[manorcon.demon.co.uk] can you install GSL and GNU Common C++ on ash? do I get to run apt-get under sudo? jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: Ping timeout for jamest[hobbes.math.ksu.edu] ooh look, someone's trying to bounce mail off my SMTP server [13:05] Last message repeated 1 time(s). heh kick their arse Mail -> 550 5.1.2 Cannot accept mail for heh jamest (jamest@129.130.6.20) joined #gnuenterprise. that's very interesting jamest who do I have to kill to get stuff installed on ash? ;P Nick change: rm-away -> reinhard bbl reinhard (rm@62.47.44.7) left irc: Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est. -- Aurelius Augustinus hey hey mr mueller bah ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). chillywilly kill a trout to get stuff on ash :) hehe bbl eh? yet more explosions outside guy fawkes night glad I don't have a pet psullivan: huh? jamest you live? "remember remember the 5th of November, gunpowder treason and plot jamest can you install some stuff on ash? I see no reason why (something) treason should ever be forgot" in reality, just an excuse for the neighbours to let off some fireworks I could go out to one of the public displays but i'm happier here trying to track down some IRC nicks for Kernel Cousins chillywilly (baumannd@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) left #gnuenterprise. off for now - back l8r psullivan (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. wow, filemaker pro for Linux ;-) haha filepuker pro, cool ugh "Microsoft Deutschland seems to have accidentally pirated itself by shipping the same copy of Windows XP over and over again. Sort of, anyway. German sites 3Dwin.de and Heise Online report that numerous copies of XP with the same product key have been turning up, and naturally these won't activate, because they've been activated already." hehe haha dang... hylafax has a job limit of 32,000 sigh hmm where did you get that from (the deutschland) newsforge jcater: hmm time to get bayonne a rockin jcater: a job limit? whats that? the 32,000 fax is the end of faxing? heh no it's job numbers only go to 32000 then reset at 1 oh so I guess that means you can't have more than 32000 concurrent jobs sigh what a pity for some reason I think the limit should be less ;-))) why? I have 10,000 queued right now I don't like fax spamming and have already cycled twice :( I hate fax spamming more than email spam me too with bayonne, could I configure so that incoming faxes *must* have an extension or is that a PITA for some people on the sending end? reinhard (rm@62.47.44.7) joined #gnuenterprise. ie. you must choose an extension before a fax is accepted hi reinhard Mr_You yes sweet um, how would that work? one thing i am considering doing is setting up at home an anti solicitor service basically you call me caller id kicks in if you are a 'known' accepted user it rings through if not it says no solicitors allowed type in your phone number and rings through and shows me the number entered for family/friends i give passcode (4 digit) so if they arent at phone w/ callerid (that is recognized) they enter a pin and skip right through :) I've talked with several tech support call centers in which they could only enter 10 digits for a fax number cool, you could also add the "disconnected" tones to the beginning of the no solicitors message to automagically have their system recognize as a disconnected number dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) left irc: Ping timeout for dtm[m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com] btw: qwest does some similar things here but its very expensive so you might be shooting yourself in the foot if this is more than a "home" number bayonne is a ONE time '90' digiboard jcater not really as if they cant jcater: yeah that might be a problem you get their fax number and manually add it to your 'supported' list but call centers can have any one of, say, 10 numbers that's a PITA or if thier caller id is disabled you could 'turn it off' i.e. you are expecting a fax and you know they cant get around your deal, you turn on allow all calls would be nice if they could offer you random temporary numbers hehe I assume Mr_You was talking about an automated, shove it in the closet, type system until you get the fax then turn back on dtm (dtm@m206-221.dsl.tsoft.com) joined #gnuenterprise. um even so its unix you can ssh to a closet :) sure yeah that would work *you* can hehe hi dtm jcater: just make a nice webpage button ;-) jcater PERSONALLY mine will be controlled via some x10 goodies as well :) muhahahaha actually with bayonne it doesn't matter much anyways cause paper is eliminate Mr_You well bayonne doesnt do faxing YET iirc so technically this would be like a 'fax firewall' :) it just blocks and passes through the good stuff why'd you suggest bayone as a hylafax replacement then? ;-) but eventually it would be all because they are working on it :) bayonne will assimilate? a 'customer' always helps 'spur' development :) i plan on using at home for voice to stop damn telemarketer hell actually since paper is eliminated, I could have a public fax bit-bucket that is flushed weekly I plan on having IP Phones and auto-forwarding to cell phone dneighbo: passcodes to talk to you? hehe jamest: our passcode is 666 I'm sure :) you know anyone that thinks hearing your voice is worth the extra effort? to talk to laurie I could see. but you? sounds iffy dude :) right now I don't have any phone service cept cell and its great for me.. don't care to talk on the phone a lot its a PITA when yer ISP puts you on hold for 20 minutes tho heh.. Todd says we have "quit communicating by email" hehehe yeah gnue@gnu.org has become a "spam only" mailing list heh lets tell Todd we only communicate via IRC and Bayonne IP phones hehe no and in the future GNUe Forms tell him we only communicate via XML yeah heh (please don't mention that in the KC) :) but I use GNUe Forms client to make a pretty interface jamest: no one calls me oddly laurie is one that wants it friend pays like 10 bucks a month for the qwest version and loves it ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.80) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all hi well, there is a cheap version.. just don't answer with call waiting and on your voicemail/answering machine put the disconnect tones at the beginning ;-) might confuse some callers, but they'll get use to it ;-) and realize its your voice mail when you say your regular greeting hello ra3vat any toying with geas lately? or did you give up? :) ;) hello reinhard neither toying nor give up :) ok :) psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hi psu hi aj damn this house is *really* beginning to get on my nerves.. haven for whatever I'm allergic too the big news is ... awaits drum roll... Nick change: reinhard -> drum Action: drum rolls Nick change: drum -> reinhard Kernel Cousin GNUe is now online http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/index.html woohoo! Action: Mr_You sneezes. all hail psu! bless you y'all go and check it out already have :) (and drive Zack's log files crazy> I will do a formal announce to gnue-disuss discuss oops I'll go ahead and tell you to edit out most of my comments ;-) *snicker* i'm sure that his server gets hit quite a lot and also submit an article to the gnue front page Action: ajmitch notices that he has been quoted... aj - but of course! psu: maybe you could also post to gnue@gnu.org reinhard - will do psu: what about slashdot, and linuxtoday, and lwn, and all the media?? ;) I'll leave that for the moment ok ;) Action: ajmitch gets back to python hacking hmm, this could get messy.... Log message: Updated PyPgSQL driver to work on machines other than my own :) roflmao hey! don't laugh it was a bizzar error :) very bizarre please do submit to lwn and linuxtoday ? we arent ready for slashdot yet :) where can I get info on this kernel cousins thing jamest : lwn and linuxtoday usually run gnome, dotGNU summaries as well as all the kernel cousins kt.linuxtoday.org i think is official dneighbo: i guess the only news network we are ready for is segfault.org ;) rofl haha http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/index.html for those that missed it first time. ToyMan (Stuart@c5300-4-ip247.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. psu: my name is "Jack Doe" jbailey (jbailey@65.93.4.94) joined #gnuenterprise. hey jbailey rolf er rofl rolling on laughing floors again, eh? heya ajmitch we told you about that crack laced Mountain Dew jcater : were close to mexico, the dope is good here, what can i say :) lwn & linuxtoday duly informed psu: excellent work we're probably not ready for slashdot yet... romla : rolling on my laughing ass would be a good one too :) leave that for the special 1000th issue... only 999 to go dneighbo: wb! psu: what's the frequency of KC's? dneighbo: Good trip? weekly psu: Have you got one done? You said you'd send it for proofing, but I don't think I've seen it. probably slightly less in practice jb - Zack has cast an eye over it. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout for psu[manorcon.demon.co.uk] jbailey : very good night all reinhard (rm@62.47.44.7) left irc: Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est. -- Aurelius Augustinus psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. psu: I just read your KC. Good work! l8r jamest (jamest@129.130.6.20) left irc: [x]chat psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: Ping timeout for psu[manorcon.demon.co.uk] ToyMan (Stuart@c5300-4-ip247.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting ToyMan (Stuart@c5300-4-ip247.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi ToyMan jcater you around? or rather will you or jamest be here later? for bug reports? 'sup? psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. yeah, we'll be on tonight but I can take it now hey dneighbo hi again psu rofl bbs dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: BitchX: the OTHER white meat hmm hmm that was pointless what was that about? hi again aj my conn has been up & down all night was just going to say that if psu: derek said something about having an irc2html program for the logs anyone thinks they have been misrepresented on KC, I can submit changes. err.. not on yours, anyway =) chillywilly (danielb@d17.as3.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. psu: was mdean talking about a new release of phpGW? thanks aj - I will look at the back logs psu: one thing... mdean's comment about releasing in 4-6 weeks hi chillywilly that's for his DCL project which we are working with good stuff jcater: ah, DCL... but you might want to clarify that ello ajmitchie! I was deliberately ambigious ajmitch: you sleep yet? ah nothing like IRC for some out of context remarks chillywilly: don't be silly ajmitch: go to bed now chillywilly: haha, why ajmitch: you goof it's nearly lunchtime, i'm wide awake my experience of allnighters and i've got another day to do this python stuff before i have to show it off :) is that once you've made it thru' 3-4 a.m. yea I know psu: yeah, i've had that it doesn't hit you again until the afternoon Action: chillywilly has had many an all-nighter psu: i know :) was taught that about sleep patterns in psychology earlier in the year :) there are times of the day where you are most likely to feel sleepy Action: chillywilly is pretty tired Action: ajmitch still has heaps of caffiene chillywilly: heh chillywilly: but you've been working, i've only been coding time for bed, said zebedee bye before I start pulling an all-nighter of my own heh g'night psu Nick change: psu -> psuzzz psuzzz (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. hey dudes forms ppl even you guys ever check out: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/ looks pretty cool yeah I like this too: Another secondary goal is to allow rich multimedia content, such as video and audio, and streaming of it. bbl Action: chillywilly has to see the lord of the rings movie yep Action: ajmitch will have to see how much of the scenery he recognises as well :) jcater_ (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater Action: chillywilly is away: dinner Nick change: jcater -> ChefJason chef? *********** note to psu (psullivan) ********************** Trying to influence what gets put in? (Don't do it, psu!! Don't succumb to peer pressure!) i go by derek, dneighbo or dnBlahBlah generally im logged in at home and work so usually derek and dneighbo are logged in at same time ****************** heh jbailey: and what are you using to bribe psu? dead trout, chillywilly seems to leave them lying around, so why not put to good use heh i dunno what his obsession is... I think the word is "fetish" lol I'd hate to see the private-distributed april fools day a "year in review" of the KC. =) yeah, it'd be a worry Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:25:05) Action: chillywilly trout whips everyone as he walks out the door there he goes again... chillywilly (danielb@d17.as3.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error to chillywilly[d17.as3.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net]: EOF from client ToyMan (Stuart@c5300-4-ip247.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting psu: I think we need a weekly trout count lol jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201089.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. howdy folks Nick change: ChefJason -> jcater howdy lol, i read that as cheifjason howdy chief jcater: how'd the db driver change work out? we still have the bad login = crashed app on win32? oh I fogot about it so I guess it's still broken lol unless the CVS fairy fixed it i can look at it now ok I'm not at a Win32 machine anymore oh crap i need to get 2.1 python hmm Action: jcater prefers chiefd neilt (neilt@p254.usnyc7.stsn.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chief #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ wonder if I should load 2.2 alpha instead :) so I can be like derek lol I'd say go for it except you can't get precompiled drivers for it argh! argh? it's almost too much to think I spent time making it work with python 2.0 only to find out I can find 2.0 db drivers :) why are you upgrading to 2.1? so I can test the db drivers oh yeah i have 2.0.1 and I can't find a pygresql or pypgsql binary for win32 python 2.0 son of a i need 2.1 wxpython, datetime, pyxml, etc, etc so what else needs done? um I dunno I couldn't figure out the Wizards on Win32 as my setup.py install kept installing an old copy of TemplateBase and I couldn't figure out where it was coming from you must blow away the build dirs this is a samba share and manually remove them from the install and I removed the entire friggin thing location ah I removed everything edit a file from the dos session don't save it just edit it that seems to "fix" a messed up cache hmm so there is a samba cache somewhere? well, I'm not at a windows machine you remember what was happening with wizards? mdean (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-58.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. yes you would log into the database it would open a new window with a blank form and return you to the select database panel not the table selection panel ick hmm I need plex86 working rofl just get your wife a pc for christman hmm christmas jamest: i grabbed new python thinking cool well, actually theres a win98 machine within 3 feet of me then i end up new pyxml but then I'd have to set up a samba share and actually roll over to the other computer then figure out crap need new wx and new pygres and new date time only i grabbed the newest python so i have to compile it all you wouldn't want me to put myself out that much would you? but honestly im happy with it :) pointone (pointone@24-196-85-224.jvl.wi.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: that's part of the new "rollersize" program of weight lost loss jcater: you get i would jcater: good point, 3 feet has been known to cause serious injuries, definitely not worth risking a career ending injury :) if I suffer everyone should derek: Damn, I'm living life on the edge. It's at least 10 feet to other system neilt1 (neilt@p116.usnyc5.stsn.com) joined #gnuenterprise. since I have everyone here was talking to jcater about putting ROADMAP files in each project neilt (neilt@p254.usnyc7.stsn.com) left irc: Ping timeout for neilt[p254.usnyc7.stsn.com] 0.1.x fix geas driver fix foo barulator 0.3.0 good idea add GComm support been begging for it :) etc,etc hi pointone i still want dcl for gnue as well :) so we'd have one in form, reports, common, designer, and geas jamest: it was more the configuring samba that I was avoiding, not the 3 feet everyone ok with that jcater: you need debian apt-get install samba yip until we get a secure gnue working on ash and IIRC a default install is functional then it will be a gnue app to keep track :) derek: you have time tonight for gnue? derek: Maybe once you have it there, we'll get it on Fencepost ;) we need testing jbailey: now that's funny and reports will be gneerating the roadmpa file i think you'll have to wait for our emacs interface and gdbm driver jamest: It will happen. You have to admit the generally the current state of database access from the command line just sucks ;) er, wait gdbm is too fancy no, emacs interface is probably best ;) so funny i forgot to laugh :)O derek: hi derek once our agents track down madlocke and his kneecaps heel enough he can sit in front of a monitor we'll get to see this new UI stuff he's working on and a curses client shouldn't be too far off jamest: you know, this win98 machine is my wife's but the irony is that she wants KDE "cause it has cool games" :) hmm so lets talk gnue-common roadmap while I await downloading how did we go from a ROADMAP file to GDBM? my fault =) jcater: the funny thing my wife said same thing about gnome :) loved the games jcater: basically I was giving fsf foundation hard time she said ximian gnome sucks cause no cool games lol I STILL say the included games greatly contributes to the "user-friendliness" so she has right ideas even if the wrong reasons :)p as if it isn't written in emacs or painted on the walls of the cave in the blood of today's kill it's too new or something Nick change: neilt1 -> neilt jamest: gnue-common roadmap trigger architecture #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ jamest: if its 'usable' w/o 6 months of training its bad :) 0.1.x finish GEAS driver finish " finish "conditional" finish "conditional" support (sorry) we want this in ROADMAP or TODO basic GComm support um, I dunno we discussed even odds kewl, i was hoping someone would volunteer to finish geas are we doing that or no? 0.3.0 0.5.0 1.0.0 1.1.0 = devel 1.2.0 = stable no need for a "stable" pre 1.0 imho ok you sure no but I don't want to get bogged down in details if so we need to do one of two things a. go to 1.0.0 very soon I'm wanting to put this somewhere so we can focus on whats needed b. use even odds before 1.0.0 only because some people use this in production (stupid fools) but barring that detail for now we can say 'next release' and 'release after that' and ignore numbers :) so we can be productive next release - outstanding bug fixes i want major targets for big rev levels as geas driver is a 0.1.x release 'release after that' then we need to focus on "something" - basic GComm - functional geas driver 'release after that release' - geas using gcomm - basic trigger system we're bumping everything to 0.1.0 except geas and reports thats fine so we can do point releases on a branch for bugs and fleshing out features and major bumps for new features im trying to do as you say and be agnostic to numbers :)O ah, sorry :) ok, the gnue-common TODO at the bottom of the file 0.1.x finish GEAS driver 0.3.0 ?.?.? finish "conditional" support basic gcomm support trigger system gsetup system anything else world peace added Common - GComm - Trigger System - Security System - Conditional Support - Setup Tool - Update Tool Reports - Use GComm (i.e. make server) - Create standard for output - Start transformation sheets Forms - Lookup Widget - Menuing System / blah - Security System GEAS - Use GComm - Use Forms DB Drivers - Security System - Use Shared Triggers is my quick list give me time and i can pile on more mind you im not tying these to any particular release just saying things that we have discussed in past by security system all the parts need it, so im assuming will go in common somehow and each piece can implement by security i assume some sort of RBAC or the likes You need to add Trigger Support in Reports shared or both? well, common will distinguish between shared or local or i suppose if done right it will all be same so reports just needs to implement common correct :) 's triggers chillywilly (danielb@d60.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Trigger support (common) added to all pieces :) hey derek Common - GComm - Trigger System - Security System - Conditional Support - Setup Tool - Update Tool Reports - Use GComm (i.e. make server) - Create standard for output - Start transformation sheets - Trigger support (common) Forms - Lookup Widget - Menuing System / blah - Security System - Trigger support (common) GEAS - Use GComm - Use Forms DB Drivers - Security System - Trigger support (common) Integrator - Design :) im sure missing lots here, but high level these are things im remembering, sure once i start testing in a few minutes the list will grow exponentially :) (poor fools) ah crap Action: derek wonders why they ask for the torture Action: chillywilly hides in a deep well derek hang on gack! Action: jcater sings... "hang on derek; derek hang on.." is the GEAS todo up to date? jamest: have no idea Action: derek didnt bother to look at 'todo's' they already have a roadmap in there :) oh boy i have an incredible find http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0880290714/103-2688367-2060605 yes the geas todo is up to date derek: I found one for you... "Diseases of the Goat" ... just so you can be prepared derek: rofl ... 'cause you never know ok, commiting new TODOs now in forms the #1 with a bullet major thing IMHO is the UI rewrite well so much crap is dependent upon a new UI system you are gonna implement W3C XForms? standardized trigger support is up there too right ;) crap forgot about ui rewrite :) fear the day we get dcl cooking on ash :) jcater: ok, so that means we should choose 1 and make it the target of 0.3.0 the real masta will come out again :) and make the other the target of 0.5.0 call me a bastard but you guys wanted the roadmap yeah, I know and maps usuall mean point a to point b :) Action: derek loads up the shot gun, he heard there was some clay pigeons being fashioned round here plus I don't want major changes all over the place sure you do! as if we make fixes on a 0.1.x branch and merge back into cvs it's more fun that way?!?! :) can someone download the sgmltools source and email to me????? Action: derek wonders if its 'fair' to use 'buck shot' on pre 0.1.0 targets so which is a bigger issue for people UI rewrite or triggers? that's a toughie or do we honestly have the humanpower to put both into 0.3.0 what does a UI rewrite involve? btw derek why are you gonna do that? check out the history samples in gnuef first.gfd and read your comment Nick change: mdean -> mdean-[SamuraiJack] chillywilly: the UI system needs lots of work, we've outgrown what we have mdean-[SamuraiJack]: hehe Action: chillywilly changes to the cartoon network that cartoon brox er, rox even evil takes many forms, most of them look vaguely like the masta waht was my comment only w/ less hair wife did shave my back this weekend On 11.07.00 while getting ready to package 0.1.0, cleaned this sample and am just amazed as it was our first ever .gfd sample back in 07.00. Ah what memories. It looks quite different now and its a simple form. :) masta == goat herder I'm starting to sweat making a 11.07.01 release date :) damn, did I scare off people Action: chillywilly hands jamest a towel also what we do in forms impacts the release focus for common a year old :) which impacts reports bwahahaahahahahahah hmm what a release cycle :) you have that backwards what I do in reports affects common the fools, they ask for roadmaps which impacts forms they get roadmaps hence, the db rewrite :) jcater: of course like a huge circle jerk of python pain doesn't common impact everything hence it is called "common" circle jerking with a python could be painful, ill let you let me know :) eeeew but I'm hoping that going to 0.1.0 means we can improve the paritial implemented/unused stuff in the 0.1.x releases yes going to 0.3.0 means adding major new feature used in a major new release of one of the others i could really use triggers but the UI rewrite is huge marketing also, to expand on what jamest us saying http://www.odmg.org <-- anyone ever look at that? we should be able to fix common (via the 0.1.x series) and still have it work with forms 0.1.0 as saying she runs on windows/unix is nothing like saying she runs on windows, unix, native mac, web, palm, and oh yeah a phone jamest: true jcater: yes, exactly so my needs are triggers, but gnuef needs might be UI and my needs are triggers, but gnuef needs is a UI as I think people would almost get naughty pleasures from running the same form on their win boxen, web site, vt320 terminals plus I can make triggers do what I need now :) we need GDO - GNU Data Objects :P or something chillywilly: shut up what do you guys think of GObject? it's just not "fun" sure it is just needs python bindings wait a second jcater: why should I shutup? a few other things that pop to mind a. omniORB support (this might be part of gcomm) but its necessary to use forms w/ geas on windows other than images of coders tied to chairs? b. while i agree marketing wise ui options help that is part of GComm the simple fact is we need applications one usable good solid app will do more than any number of ui options will im half tempted to say one of the main focuses should be get one or more apps out we all have some 'internal' stuff but i mean something useful and distributable that's for someone else to worry about :) and let it in many ways help dictate what is next gulliver2000 (gulliver@bi-node.teuto.de) joined #gnuenterprise. well in playing with forms in the past and hearing others the few things i have heard had little to do with new UI's the were mostly jcater: you don't like the ODMG spec? a. trigger stuff (both of you state you need them :)) chillywilly: what does that have to do with UI's and triggers? b. lookup box support (this kills me) jcater: nothing, it has to do with db stuff duh b. part of UI rewrite c. menu system (in sense of multiple forms being called via menus) c. part of UI rewrite im not sure of that (c) dude im thinking c is going to be part security in some ways the current UI system hard codes the menus thinking in skliens lines of menuing being processes really, but i suppose its a ui component anyhow just thinking outloud and I don't want to put any time into more UI hacks trying to remember what pissed me off using forms in the past :) the answer of course: damn grouchy arrogant bastard developers hi gulliver2000 #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o derek' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ I'm thinking maybe 0.3.0 forms roadmap should be UI rewrite, but 0.3.0 common roadmap should be trigger support that would work hi then we could fold the changes into forms during the 0.3.0 release cycle Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by derek!derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net: Mad GNUe : RoadMap Warrior -={ Coming Soon To Computer Near You }=- or, The One.Oh.One jamest: that may make more sense as there's a set amount of stuff to do to get triggers working (both shared and local) but the second part is standardizing on the forms specific language hmm that made more sense in my mind than in IRC :) it did? I thought the idea was to have a plugin system for various langauges? chillywilly: it does that's part of the gnue-common part i think we're reviving part of the part discussion ?? on how to access things from multiple languages write a plugin that oads whatever interpreter based on what type of method you could have a cache like ld.so.conf no, things like "HOw do i get the current value of the current field named foobar" they register them selves as handlers of that lanaguge etc. let's stick with the roadmap discussion yes but that does bring up a good point when you see a method you look into the cache and load the langauge plugin for it, etc...ok I am done 0.3.0 Implement trigger support (python based) 0.3.x (or 0.5.0) implement more languages into trigger support 'cause python triggers will be the first yea and maybe once they are working, the focus gulliver2000 (gulliver@bi-node.teuto.de) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). shouldn't be on getting as many languages as possible working but the focus should move on to something else once the framework is there you can asdd whatever langauges you want chillywilly: yeah, but we are discussing priorities here I'm saying adding the extra languages may not be the something else - setup.exe install on windows top priority jamest: definitely should probably be in each roadmap sacha (sacha@chime-a-69.conceptual.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: sacha -> SachaS jcater: sure I agree, but priority should be to do it correctly to support miltiple langauges so as not to rewrite code that's not cool i think it will be important to 'proof' another language when the time comes but short of proof i dont think it needs to be coddled along until a 'maintainer' for that languages support comes along implement python first after you have the framework...the rest are secondary chillywilly: yes, I think we are in agreement :) ok :) just for clarification triggers == methods == form events? same code right? yip k samurai jack is cool ok, we haven't talked about designer or reports Action: jcater hisses well there's no hissing in GNUe quick stick a cork in him , our blow up coder is leaking part of the forms UI rewrite is a restructuring of designer jamest: rofl or at least following the UI rewrite designer needs to be more generalized so it can handle things like reports definitions, etc it needs a better "debug/run form" system i'd like to see it do more introspection of data source s yes that can be 0.3.0 so we could tree out a data source and drag into because the base structure is being ironed out in common i.e., the basic introspection yip I'm afraid to touch the GEAS TODO it reads like a book that hurts jamest :'( no, i mean it's that good a TODO oooh our todo's look like crap in comparison thoguht you wmna t we sicked in that our TODO is HUGE example er, meant Planned for 0.2.0: 5. method handling should be redesigned {methods} 5a. Bug - If methods have non-string arguments the parser fails. (segfault with no debug, hits assert in debug version) {classdef} 5b. code from the methods subdirectory may not depend on orbit-idl generated files, or these generated files need to be put into another subdirectory I think our GEAS masta whipped it into shape compared to forms (reinhard) 0.3.0 UI Rewrite :) hehe ok, I'm commiting what we talked about derek: you here? did you guys sschedule to have ameeting now or did this sorta happen? chillywilly: schedule? wtf is that? it sorta happened maybe we should make it so we have once a week make everyone show up :D muuwahahhhaa masta has gotten to me im here sorry responding to boat loads of email :( putting kids to bed no problem and listening to a screaming child (sigh) damn kids! derek: so, you are saying you need something to do? man, you'd think they'd leave you alone since you're testing cvs for our upcomming release jcater: remember that url i sent you on introspection? for like autocomplete in forms vaguely I have it bookmarked somewhere why? just asking :) no reason neilt (neilt@p116.usnyc5.stsn.com) left irc: ok, the todos are commited please look and gripe :) jamest: dammit L( :) ok well, it's a start I just commited so we could talk w/ same ref Nick change: mdean-[SamuraiJack] -> mdean well, in common 0.1.x: finish introspection support in individual dbdrivers (currently, postgres (and maybe oracle) have introspection support how does a db do introspection? sounds good what does that mean? chillywilly: table names; column names for tables basic schema lookups i though connections.conf provided a sample file? ah, nevermind :) did you add it? no you wanna me to? yip ok hmm record locking? mdean: hello, shot you more mail im needing some dcl loving soon expect gnue evil on dcl soon derek: everyone needs some good lovin' jcater: via select for update in the db drivers? jcater: or something more complex we also need to finialize where we want this stuff to install and I think it should be part of a major version change in hand with gsetup? jamest: I'd think that'd be left up to the particular driver as I know Oracle can do a select for update and, yes, I agree that's a major version change what about cross-db transaction support or is that a whole new service (that's way down the line, btw :) hmmmm why does it seem like you wanna implement GEAS in your stuff :P? chillywilly: um, we are about "taking what you need and leave the rest". I don't think this is iimplementing GEAS in our stuff and it was just a question chillywilly: geas doesn't do cross-db transaction support and we're working on all roadmaps not just a single one chillywilly: I take it your stance is that should be part of GEAS wel it is supposed to handle transactions....then again nevermind well no, it can be part of a common db abstraction thing chillywilly: i don't think it works now, and i don't think geas supports more than a single db compiled in at a time Action: chillywilly opens mouth inserts foot well, we're all entitled to do that occasionally jamest: well we know it is a hack btw, what about security...you guys still looking/thinking about RBAC? Roel Based Access Control er, Role definitely just not sure how that fits in yet :) me neither gotta actualy read some more of those papers and think about it Action: jbailey is away: eating i think the point is that db abstraction etc (transactions) shoudl be in common so that geas and 2 tier can 'share' the idea is to get geas using as much of common as possible yes I agree arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kids misbehavin tonight cant get crap done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111 thing is do you go with relational db abatrction or do we (GEAS and/or GNUe) go with ODMG and OO stuff like OQL, OIF, etc. them again there's probably atill an underlying relation mapping there are we still on the roadmap? or in the details :) more like roadkill bah you know me I just go on and on I can't help myself Action: derek trout slaps chilly (its trout therapy, to help self) with this product will a user have the potential to have many windows open at one time to get all the info they need? dyfet (dyfet@65.188.113.57) joined #gnuenterprise. derek: in case you remember i am dn or drahc argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Action: jamest bashes head against wall win32 support is down again um what changed? my python, wxpython, pyxml, etc with same code base pointone: what do you mean by windows? the forms client can be open as many times as you like but it doesn't do something like MDI and you can have forms launch other forms it does support multiple "pages" if your data doesn't fit on one screen but even then, only one page can be visible at once jcater: connectoin manager is None argh!!! you running designer or forms? wait missing connections.conf file will there be a parent frame that all others reside in or will they all be there own window on graphical systems. all on their own windows hmm pointone: but we do support " i _think_ it wouldn't take too much effort to make this MDI "tabbed" views at least in the GUI versions tabbed views... pointone: let me find screenshot do other software of this type use multiple screens or do they somehow consolidate the info into an easier to navigate system ive seen shots of forms and designer http://www.gnuenterprise.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=14 is a tabbed view we've talked about a consolidation system pointone: well, for a single task, most software of this type keeps things in a single window but we've not started such a system right, im just wondering if there is a better way. but multiple "tasks" could of course be multiple forms instances maybe I don't understand what you are asking multiple tasks? dyfet (dyfet@65.188.113.57) left irc: Client Exiting well, say maintaining an account is one task, while entering new contact information is another task the account maintenance would be one form (hence, one window) ive not been involved in creating this type of software, but... pointone: hello i do recall the name drahc believe it or not :) i would have thought that the way someone interacts with the system, the simplicity of someone to find the window with the info they wanted to go back to would be a part of the more basic system. derek: hi hmm well, we are a framework this is what sklein was working on yes derek: just listening in on your design talks IIRC he based it upon gnuef code but we never saw it :( in any case this wouldn't be hard to add jamest: a frame work i think what you are discussing is what i had listed as 'menuing' a in each form in the 'roadmap' and an app that displays available forms derek: im thinking more of a whole design or one enforced by filesystem heiranrch historically curses based systems did this all via menus and i think most gui apps continued this tradition (the ones ive used) so you have say accounting not like the window menu of say word on mswin - add account bad example accounting - create invoice jcater: he's talk Sql*Menu IIRC :) - accept payment or such where the top level menus were 'modules' so to speak and the detail menus were 'processes' of course this is how 'security was enforced' as well either you had access to a menu option or you didnt etc my opinion is that if you want to build a gui system you go beyond an curses look not saying its the 'best' way jcater: you check in the import updates? just stating when i say 'menuing' i mean a similar 'effect' as now I'm getting a can't find pypgsql driver on startup doesnt have to be limited to just menus it could be tabs I'm sure I did or something else pointone: by the way, we are trying to be UI independent jcater: ui independent? we plan to support curses, html, as well as the traditional GUIs (like gnome, kde, etc) pointone: are target is any interface via the same data entry form definition are = our Action: jbailey is back (gone 00:26:56) derek: we're even talking about a phone interface via bayonne oops so that a system run on html forms or one with a kde interface can talk to the same system? not only talk to the same system, but run from the same code base and same design yes, the core code is the same the UI is created via drivers we used to have a curses interface working w/ our GUI driver does that allow for more flexibility or less in the overall design? basically, you create a form layout definition and that single definition can be displayed/run via any of the supported UI (curses, gnome, html) most important part being an xml form desriptions which can be implemented on everything er, anything pointone: less if you're after a windows app pointone: more if you're wanting to do data entry with one gfd file you can support your windows, macintosh, unix, and web users running the same code base and possibly palm-pilot :) you can also have a call center full of old vt terminals (text only, amber screen) that can use the same form as your windows user but of course your windows users would have the benefit of a complete GUI i.e., it takes advantage of the underlying interface as much as possible but, we're made some tradeoffs in some peoples eyes so do you think most business that will use gnue will use terminal of gui? both actually I have a nice home system but it'd be real nice to be able to ssh into the gnuenterprise.org server and run a form over telnet to run a gui system at home I could do gfclient form.gfd or at work then when I telnet into the sytem from home and type gfclient form.gfd the system falls back to text mode i can also store my forms on a web server and do gfclient http://www.foocorp.com/form.gfd from my laptop on the road jamest: yes, that import update was committed and have it access the same form my people at the main office are using jcater: she's dead jim er, jason :) pointone: you'd be surprised how many business user still have Wyse 50's or DEC's and they make perfect sense jcater: i forgot mxdatetime install :( ah need to add that to the setup.py :) yes actually, we need to write a free replacement to those darn mx.* tools :) so you send data and ui info over the pipe? pointone: depends but typically no just data take a saleman on the road... they can have gnuef client installed on laptop and pull form definition from web server then all UI is local and only data is transmitted so they download the ui info once and then data transmits from there on out they can have nothing on their laptop, but ssh into the main system and run it text based which means the text ui is going over the wire and the app is running at the office they can have nothing on their laptop and access the form via a web brower they can not have a laptop and pick up the phone and access the bayonne interface to get some data how does one know what forms are available for them to use? well, you could put them all as links on a web site on unix systems you can create symlinks to the client as each form name and the users learn them as "commands" icons on the desktop hmmm we don't (yet) have a tool that pulls it all together into a navigator type system but you could make a web page do that now but this is something you are going to do? w/o too much effort i believe so, i know i could use it today as I have to give my users commands or icons and it's a pain jcater: help! import PgSQL fails on win32 cool: debian added plex86 package jamest: how so? unless I'm in the c:\python21\PySQL directory it can't find the module (now if I only had debian) PySQL directory????? I didn't have a PySQL directory at work jcater: i tried in SF to convert you to the side of light and goodness :) er unless I'm in the c:\python21\pyPgSQL directory running 2.0 pyPgSql 2.0 w/ python 2.1 um that means they changed the import statement pointone: also when geas gets going good i think you'll be able to do off line updates StormBringer (eugene@194.84.60.1) joined #gnuenterprise. so salesperson could get a snapshot of the data on their laptop hi ppl edit it without connection to network you probably need to change the pypgsql import to: try: import PgSQL except ImportError: from pyPgSQL import PgSQL Action: jcater will check their changelogs and when plugged in again it'll sync the data StormBringer: howdy I remember your nicj nick how's it going? StormBringer: hi jcater: it may be better ;) jcater: I'm going to flip that so that the from is first ok as this is the release yesterday 2.0 jamest: what size business would you target gnue towards? pointone: we have to grow so initially small to medium businesses eventually I think we'll be able to handle rather large systems Changes since pyPgSQL Version 1.6 ================================= pyPgSQL is now a 'real' python package (i.e. there is a directory named pyPgSQL that contains a file named __init__.py). PgSQL and libpq are now modules contained in the pyPgSQL package. are all users going to have to be computer literate individuals? jamest: so that is the case Action: SachaS has to try out gnue soon Action: jamest beats head on desk pointone: no pointone: but they have to be trainable pointone: they probably do need to be literate jcater: i think you can get forms that'll hide most of the "computer" stuff from the user jcater: they just enter the data and press "save" once in a while even that could be done in a trigger eventually so the monkey on the phone could fill in the blanks until the last field is reached enter a y in a field labeled "Save Y/N" i think we will be monkey compatiable for most modules as I have some users that are not good with machines but seem to grasp gnuef man, I have to get up in about 5 hours to head out of town out of town? users revolting that bad eh yeah, family member having minor surgery I said literate, not computer literate :) wanted us to be there but it's at 7:30 am and 3 hour drive and I hate not sleeping at home even if I don't do much of it "sleeping" that is rofl Action: derek reluctantly searches out new copy of cvs (big gulp) says "sorry we arent ready for your torture testing yet, please try back in a few days" is this a common cvs message? jamest: thanks for all you conversation, i was just looking for more insight into gnue and its mission, by the way, if you had a mission statement what do you think it would be? derek: for da masta yes :P gnuebot: its whats for dinner er GNUe its whats for dinner haha! it is? mission statement, to boldly go where no gnu has gone before "Please. Make it stop." hmm, i was wondering what i was gonna have tonight... GNUe it's GNU for Business pointone: I have no idea gnuebot: putting the Free back into Free Enterprise jamest: roflmao err, GNue putting the Free back into Free Enterprise i politically incorrect one would read something to the effect what are the cons of systems that you are trying to correct with gnue? heheh that reminds me SachaS (sacha@chime-a-69.conceptual.net.au) left irc: Ping timeout for SachaS[chime-a-69.conceptual.net.au] pointone: they are tied into proprietary systems... we work with MANY, MANY systems "Stop letting overpriced consultants sell you overpriced solutions that require overpriced customizations" we have this cool radio show witht hese 2 guys Bob and Brian thye had a little commercial like that pointone: Well. Since the people who hang out here will be the only ones who understand GNUe, I think we're all hoping it'll be a nice big cash cow =) We're all for consultants jamest: something like that :) "I hear stupid ppl" e.g., Oracle has a similar Forms product as some of us do that for a living but but it only works with Oracle :) Pleas. Make Bob and Brian Stop." we're trying to keep them honest it is hilarious keep them honest, or take their money. Whatever comes first ;) if you don't like your current gnue consultant you can find another one (Don't mind me. I'm not actually a GNUe hacker.. ) jbailey: how about 'honestly, take their money' derek: naw. I'll take their money anyway I can. Honest! if you don't like the way gnue works you can change it and in doing so NOT buy me a new BMW sssssh you're gonna spoil it damn you quite a heavy thing to put on the user. too bad not everyone likes to code though it's not on the user pointone: this is true for al Free Software s/al/all the idea is that if you don't like your consultant an example nautilus uh oh (s)he doesn't own the code, or the regional rights to the code that projects 'company' went out of business but the 'customer' wasnt left holding the bag, the product lives on w/o the company anyone code savy can tweak the system so a company would hire a gnue consult and have them create a system for their business? we'll provide a basic system we offer this advantage, but a similar bent is if the company which provides 'gnue' to you pisses you off you can go find another that's extendable via packages(modules, thingies) pointone: they COULD do that they can hire me if they want to :P chillywilly: you? you can think of these as plug-ins for your web browser I won't say no or they could just use the base system or they could use it internally so if a tech savy user wants a new modules they can plug it in we plan to offer packages/modules that are like 'shrink wrap' if you want something more you have to have someone make it so someone can walk up and use out of box in our experience we find FEW companies work this way derek: right eventually we'll have a clearing house of packages they have 'little quirks' on how they want things or they want it integrated elsewhere etc so it is just a nice base for us :P that is where the 'consultant' role comes in or tech support so you can just grab something close someone else has made and tweak it to your liking or training etc hehe, that's how I came to be here... I was implementing GNUe at my office and decided to "tweak" it jcater: and what are you all using in gnue in your office? jcater: now you are a GNUe code slave :P and once we had the internal gps tracker and shock collar on jcater he kinda gave up the fight and has been coding ever sense jcater: and then you got sucked into the pit that is GNUe..... pointone: well, right now we are using it at our call center Action: chillywilly voluntarily lept in crap, cvs passed my first test, first time Action: derek is scared I blame it on drugs how much of a business processes would you like to have covered? no no atmospheric crack levels StormBringer (eugene@194.84.60.1) left irc: Client Exiting chillywilly: See what happens when you give those up? that's the ticket pointone: not sure I understand what you are asking Action: derek goes straight for juggler and tests the 'guantlet form' jcater: i see all the functionality that will be implemented in gnue the accounting, customer relation, forecasting, etc... how much talks to each other? how much is real time the idea is they will be as integrated as possible yet be able to be used independently with a gnue system, what other apps will a business still have to purchase? gack my gauntlet form isnt breaking it (i.e., if you only need the supply chain, it will work by itself) BUT Action: jamest does a happy dance if you have supply chain AND accounting, they will work together in real-time um we hope to be like a sap hopefully you wont have to 'purchase' anything :) would a company only need supply chain? Action: chillywilly cheers at the blow to da masta....ha ha ha we win other than hardware, consultants, support :) pointone: well, it depends take my case we have an accounting system in place already and no desire to change (as that's a BIG deal) BUT we have no supply chain management so in that case, we could use GNUe we are working on another product is yours a small business? yes it is goood work at keeping da masta at bay jamest, jcater :) his gauntlet form is no match for your hackery chillywilly: who is da masta? the forms? masta = derek Action: ajmitch bows in the presence of derek the masta see he's got this mean, sick, twisted nature SachaS (sacha@chime-a-55.conceptual.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. so we made him management ahh pointone: also, I don't know if we got the point across that we are really two projects in one: 1) A complete architecture for implementing business apps and 2) a set of packages that implement business apps :) the reason I said that is we are not restricted to creating business process apps the framework and an implementation of the framework? no otay its busted our framework could be used in dotGNU right ;)? heheh the framework and applications that use the framework derek: where? that would make da masta happy the reason I said that is derek: triggers in samples may not work someone could do an educational management system using our architecture (rather easily, as a matter of fact), but this may not be a "business process" so to speak if it pulls from an old datasource if that makes any sense well i have four buttons ok a next record, previous record, insert, delete the next, previous seem to work the insert delete 'appear' to work but dont dont know if its NOT saving the data if they are based upon old data drivers they will not work or if its just not binding to correct id number as that is major different derek: got a joke for you: a man went to the doctor and said, "doctor, my leg hurts when I do this." and the doctor says, "well, don't do that" and we figured we'd rather work on getting real trigger support in gnuef blckPhone.helper.object.newRecord() than kludge new examples together is the trigger derek: i don't think that'd work anymore blckPhone.helper.object.prevRecord() does seem to work but not the newRecord() well it might work, perhaps just the save is toast let me look see Action: derek figures they probably hate me by now :) jamest: hmm, i guess i just cant picture how gnue is making things better than the proprietary systems yet, other than they are not proprietary and someone can make it whatever they want. jamest: i agree with you on making sure if the creator company disappears someone should still be able to support it. um in several ways pointone: that's a big deal to some friends of mine proprietary software is evil they plunked down 5 digits for a solution that was complete crap evil I tell you they didn't own the code jamest: i dont doubt that Free the software!!! the code didn't work the author didn't care it ended up being cheaper to walk away than sue jamest: I think that friend was me :) proprietary software is not evil. jcater: nope uh, yes it is pointone: chillywilly is our in house free software fanatic Action: chillywilly looks at da masta pointone: you just have to say "Man that KDE is better than buttered toast" once in a while to keep him in line :) jamest: hes a KDE guy? anywho, this is GNU dag nabit prop. software is for the birds pointone: nope, it's not free enough chillywilly: what would the birds do with it? i just like giving him crap until he slaps me with...... crap on it :) dang, chillywilly no trout? i think he meant "propeller software is for the birds" jamest: just admit it the ONLY reason you are using KDe is because it is further along than Gnome not because of freedom issues chillywilly: yes, i admit that chillywilly: do you think software like soundforge or logic audio or cubase should be open source? lol me too pointone: all publicly distributed software should be Free Software...there are a couple exceptions jamest: go get some rest!!!!! however I've got enough hours in gnue to have a little credit on my "non free software" account like an embedded system you can't change the code easily in your microwave :P chillywilly: hmmm jamest: uh, no chillywilly: dude, i've got like 3 or 4 _hours_ in this project pointone: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/docs/DevelopersIntroduction/c31.html#AEN36 is a reason why its better than prop software give or take a few :) no amoujt of time is enough to use the dark side hehe actually the default theme is a little lighter than gnoems that's more than me :P kde is not the dark side im not doubting that money is an issue. you said non-free dude or the others either ok this is more than trigger errors pointone: its not about money you boys got bugs any takers ? jcater: i know derek: what dya got? jamest needs to GO TO BED! chillywilly: sorry s/non-free/KDE so does chillywilly go to /gnue/gnuef/samples/track/forms$ er go to yourcvsdir/gnue/gnuef/samples/track/forms$ actually go to there sigh go to yourcvsdir/gnue/gnuef/samples/track/sql$ and create the tables if not already created the go to forms gnuef doesn't supprt .sql files and run that form :) rofl jamest: yes it does there again just run them through reports to convert them to .gfds ;) jcater: I didn't get the windows think looked at dude!!!! that's a good point! reports can generate GFDs Action: jcater is thinking mwahahaha guys: should I be scared? always Action: derek tries to shut the box.... someone help... please.... derek: im wondering how long it will take to create something as full as say SAP without the constraints from your non prop document be afaid, be very afaraid pointone: we've got the time :) pointone: gnue isn't a rapidly developing project pointone: but she's too damn stubborn to die :) jamest: i see we won't let he rgo jamest: jcater either of you get tables setup to test that form/ we love her too much derek: which form? Action: chillywilly strokes his GNUe i hope you realize im not criticizing gnue, im meerly inquiring as to what you all think about there are lots of dorms in there contact_manager.gfd think? pointone: it's love hate love for me who does that? derek!!!! jamest: you know you wub her pointone: good questions, believe me we know what criticism is :) your load script connects as dneighbo that sucks i just did a pg_dump and checked it in ah that was before i knew it did that Action: chillywilly needs to lay off the GSim crack for a while derek: ive been thinking of a system for about a year and a half and have pictured something totally different in my mind we are all ears the system i have pictured is way different. i dont believe you would like to hear. wtf: you all kill short options? not all of them do a --help derek: side note: i have no experience in software design, but i have limited code experience -h got killed :) argh! it's easy to add back in btw - that form won't connect i ran load.sql and create_all.sql what else is missing? um derek: just wanted to let you know that im not experienced in this work, but would like to become part of something that changes the way people do business none of those SQL files define the HISTORY table changing meaning the ease not the practices they have ah snap, i added that later in life jcater: he's toying with us there is a load_history.sql right? or did i not check that bastard in no CVS create_email.sql create_todo.sql drop_email.sql drop_todo.sql create_address.sql create_email_type.sql drop_address.sql drop_email_type.sql load.sql create_address_type.sql create_person.sql drop_address_type.sql drop_person.sql create_all.sql create_phone.sql drop_all.sql drop_phone.sql create_assignment_status.sql create_phone_type.sql drop_assignment_status.sql drop_phone_type.sql sigh what a mess Man, Barber's Adagio for Strings, Op. 11 is the bomb baby too bad I'm not cultured enough to know exactly all the meaning in the title derek: you fixing cvs ? jamest needs to GO TO BED! ok update -Pd jcater is right then run create_history.sql in psql then try form btw: seems to be editing data just majorly screwing with where the cursor is after a save ok the add works as does an edit just fouls w/ cursor crap and you fixed the nav bar stuff to play well with detail which really hurts this form :) actually now i recall it did this before and was asking for a fix on it :) I think I know how to fix it cvs delete contact_manager.gfd and if you still have troubles call you in the morning :) dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=1M :) no that's not secure either one of you get the form to run? dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/hda bs=1M yeah it's running roflmao ok add a record i.e. enter first name last name then pick an address type and type in address info and save then do a second record rm -rf / wqorks great too =) to hear god cat /vmlinuz > /dev/audio /msg chillywilly he's caught on to that one, we've got to find more creative ways to destroy his machine or cat /vmlinuz > /dev/dsp man, I'm off to bed i can't even get your data to load w/o tons of errors cd /; find . -name * -exec rm {} \; rofl well i think id's are toast in master detail in some fashion or another chillywilly: forgot the -f on the rm yea derek: this all changed in a massive way /msg jamest but it is trickier eh? He might buy that one right? l) ;) derek: how could we justify a major release if we didn't invalidate any existing forms i believe i had this all working after db rewrite THOUGH i never FULLY tested so this coudl have been a bug from then I think it was that mickey mouse guy he's brian washed you brain even nite it si NOT a small world after all see you later on tues or weds jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201089.flinthills.com) left irc: [x]chat did I ever mention how much I hate syncronizing threads? someone plz shoot me bang Action: derek has to run to bed, have early awakening Action: chillywilly does too see you all tomorrow, should have more testing time then jcater see what you can find out on this Nick change: derek -> dnSleep l8r, Ia m going night night too g'night derek: you are two hours behind me chillywilly (danielb@d60.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error to chillywilly[d60.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net]: Connection reset by peer and you are going to sleep??? I'll look at it tomorrow :) Nick change: jcater -> SleepyJason mdean (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-58.kc.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout for mdean[mkc-65-28-73-58.kc.rr.com] bye pointone (pointone@24-196-85-224.jvl.wi.charter.com) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). StormBringer (eugene@194.84.60.1) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@65.93.4.94) left irc: Client Exiting --- Tue Nov 6 2001