[00:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s). jwserra (jwserra@195.174.196.145) joined #gnuenterprise. hello jwserra jwserra (jwserra@195.174.196.145) left irc: using sirc version 2.211+4KSIRC/1.1 goodbye jwserra hmm hah probably got scared of all the conversation ;) any postgresql freaks out here know how to return the current system date/time??? usually done within the programming language AFAIK date() er sorry TIMESTAMP i think is the function hmm $result = pg_exec ("INSERT INTO client (email, password, created_on) values ('$email','$hashpwd',CURRENT_TIMESTAMP)"); for example CURRENT_TIMESTAMP will give you what you need i think yes thanks sweet.. someone wants me to call about an SA job actually I dunno which job this ones about kewl jobs are always usefu Isomer (isomer@210-54-84-189.adsl.xtra.co.nz) left irc: $HOME sweet $HOME Action: chillywilly should file bankruptcy :P Action: chillywilly just saw a commercial about that chillywilly: IIRC, student loans are exempt from bankruptcy claims I know but those aren't the ones I wanna get rid of :D oh ok I am not going to do that though heh money doesnt grow on trees? Action: derek could be in trouble here hmm what's a short word for "unsupported" or "nonstandard" how much debt you got masta? a lot he owes me a lot for this damn form rofl house and two cars is all debt i currently carry this one guy finally created Virtual Private Servers for Linux.. no one has bothered porting the freebsd jail function yet, probably because its being redone in v5.x actually verio and maybe a few might have done it, but no source code released not the same as user-mode linux kernel he (and I) were surprised someone hadn't ported this to linux yet because it is pretty revolutionary.. he gave one example where they had this old Pentium Classic RH 5.2 box that barely anyone used but they didn't want to get rid of it, so they just moved the file system over and started the services within the VPS and got rid of the machine the benefit is that all VPSs can share all resources of the entire machine instead of dedicating RAM and sometimes CPU to a single "VPS" s/a single/each/ derek: you have no credit cards? I hate credit cards I cut all of mine up http://www.solucorp.qc.ca/miscprj/s_context.hc chilly: you need atleast one, and its good to have two just in case one doesn't work ;-) no way dude I have like no credit left on any of them chillywilly: i have them well maybe one oh and i use them but i pay them off every month but I will not use any of them anymore I'm almost out of debt they are just debts i have one that my broadband gets charged to automatically monthly ok and the then i have one i make all online purchases w/ as i wont use my debit card on the net but i pay it off at end of every month when i was younger and more poor i ran up about 10k in credit card debit (about 6k of that was for supplies to remodel house) I still have that beat :( 43,000 in school loans my roommate said he was thinking about buying this house, man I wish he would look around first ugggh.. I'd love to move somewhere else the rest are credit cards and misc. loans you'll beat it chilly don't worry nah, I am workin this job making peanuts not forever I hope not it is just damn depressing being this much into debt and nothing to show for it accept some damn peiece of paper they makes nice toilet paper chillywilly: hi. doesn't sound like a very sturdy degree document. hmm this company doesn't have any jobs on their site that fit me.. dtm: I dun figured out just how much in debt I am and I feel like crying :P but when i sold our first house we had about 30k in equity built in it chillywilly: good ol' cheeley i had borrowed 15k from my parents so paid them back derek: heh heh sorry had about 40k in equity derek: equity is good paid them back 15 my mom would never even have 15k lying around then paid the credit cards off and had a nice chunk of change to put down on the new house and swore to never rack credit card debit again if i bought a house these days here in silicon valley (yes it's entirely possible with a sufficient down payment and lease-to-own), in a few years (5-10) it'd be worth way more the only two jobs I'll take are: Sun/Linux/FreeBSD/HP Admin or Cisco Network Engineer or CGI development my neighbor's house is 20x its original value from the 70's or 80's if I can get out of this hole I am gonna scale down to one credut card with a $200 limit :P lucky chillywilly: ;) in this house in past 3 years probably have built about 10k maybe 15k derek: gerat great which isnt bad on a 3 year investment of 25k (my down payment here) yep wow, it'd be neat to have 25k ;) i'd settle for being able to pay last month's bills i had it in an accoutn (normal bank) for a bit masta how old are you? 27? while waiting to close and i liked seeing the interest checks chillywilly: 27 derek: did you earn all that yourself with no family help or what dont let it fool you though my bud talked a house from 133k to 119k last month Mr_You: heh i have been smart with money, but i dont have any real savings derek: bummer derek: why no savings? other than my state retirement (which isnt bad) dtm: i dont carry debt derek: do you work for the state? but i have bills that press my income to point where i havent been 'saving' money my next debt will be my biz, by that time it should be my only real big debt that is my new years resolution derek: yeah that was a silly question for meto ask :) Mr_You: what sorta biz? i've been building a bidness lately i researched small business resources at the county library tonight to start my deferred compensation of at least 3% of my salary why you all up in my bidness? btw: i work for county sheeeeet derek: i see but we are on same retirement system as the state neat the universities, schools, state, city, county all have same retirement system dtm: IT, hosting, GNUe, blah blah blah ;-) and it is transferrable to any government derek: so they have mad stock eh? ;) Mr_You: HA! is that your plan? ;> i.e. if i went to work for the state or even another state it would transfer well honestly i was sitting on some cash (about 5k) but am needing to buy a car and went on big fat vacation gov't jobs are very cushy but i was thinking stocks are so low right now it wouldnt hurt to dump 5k into market on blue chippers I need to get me a gov't job ;P and sit back and see them return to value in 2 - 3 years derek: sounds good chillywilly: hahah chillywilly: gitcha some cheeez? plz chillywilly: working for govt is very irrating most of the time fromma gubmint this is the dairy state dude and it pays ok to good derek: hehe if for right person, but can pay like crap too derek: what's your summary explanation for its irritation? um i have too favorite phrases: Mr_You: any further plans, docs, etc? definition of insanity: doing the same thing you have always done and expecting different results don let the doro hit ya where the good lord splitcha? s/doro/door s/don/don't maricopa county, we put the FUN in dysFUNctional derek: heh seriously, there is a lot of 'we always did it this way' mentality hehehe and of course everything that is good has to be expensive i.e. they waste money like mad its just sick derek: yep i laughed when pentagon spent like what 500 bucks for a toilet seat no GNUe solution for maricopa county yet? ;P and thought man someone has to be giving a kick back or somethhing but i will tell you for all their bureaucracy stupid stuff like that really happens and its not necessarily 'govt officials' out to get public gain its just really stupid decisions and vendors taking advantage of it heheh I could've worked for the city chillywilly: TRUE STORY we were on a conference call with a vendor I satyed at L. S. Research and then they let me go who i will remain nameless stupid thing to do oh well we were doing contract negotiation our lawyers, director of technology, county administrator (CEO basically) with their lawyers and top of the line on conference call there was an argument about things and who would do what we didnt want to pay their consultants we wanted to do some stuff in house and just pay for training they THOUGHT they hit mute and said something like "let them do it, you know how government employees are, we can let them pay for training and when they are too clueless to figure it out, we will just charge them the full price for consulting and tell them told you to do up front in contract" that was 'you know how STUPID govt employees are our IT director went off and it was embarassing for the vendor haha but you know what is jacked we still signed a contract with them we paid for the training the consulting that is stupid and then additional consulting and a higher rate later when they broke contract its like the govt has no BALLS I would have nir eballs imho btw: erase everythign i said, its a lie knowing tha this is the ppl's money Action: derek forgets this channel is way to public to say such things it is not their money eveyone fucking apid all those damn taxes paid oops well you know what it was the board approved the stuff and to drop this vendor and 'redo the RFP' etc would have take 8 more months and they needed a solution ASAP that's all you gotta do dude which is why they stuck with vendor geta contract with a gov't office you are set :D then when the contract fouled up youc na retire they didnt 'argue' cause they didnt want to have a 'bad' relationshiop as we are 'locked' to that vendor they wanted me to hack on the city tie program time and if we piss them off then no support and we have to go find a new product and 2 years go down the drain pretty said eh the program that keeps track of the time all the city of Milwaukee workers use and when people say GPL is dumb, this is why i want to smack them :) er, work which is one rason why you like how GNUe is working? s/rason/reason/ yes if you dont like your gnue consultant fire their ass hire a internal programmer they were a contractor with the city or find another cnosultant it won't tak emuch to get into the code aaaah the power of Free Software baby getting more bang for your buck and more freedom who would've guessed? ;P woohoo I almost have masta's form fully functional!!! Action: chillywilly looks at his deadlocked code I don;t even feeling like fixing this both threads are suspended waiting on each other to remuse them hehe scooby doo is on I need ot hack up some thread safe streams for GNU Common C++ Action: derek is frightened now s/ot/to derek: why? Action: derek needs a new harsher form as now they know his 'secret bug finder form' derek: If I get this working, you owe me a good hot cocoa next time we meet :) heheh lol hot cocoa? btw, I like my hot cocoa with an irish touch :) i'll have krispy kremes waiting at the booth in NY for you are you mena or mice? er men derek: NY? is that when the next GNUe meeting is gonna be? Action: derek is subliminally dropping bait to get jason to ny for those not picking up on the subtle maneuver Action: chillywilly should be able to make it chillywilly: that is LWCE NY in January muuwhahahahahaa mmm donuts hmm what will you do then eh? a fresh batch comes off in 1/2 hour hey, I'm in NY hmm nickr!!! that's damn scary isn't it you have a spare bedroom? nickr: want to house jason for a few days? hey nickr or help work the gnue booth I think he can barely house humself right now dudes I'd say its possible, I don't know what my situation will be exactly come january, but I'll see I am squating in an unfinished apartment, but there is room if needbe I'd definitely like to help work the gnue booth any fsf hacking buddies with a room, a couch, a floor would do as well the gnue budget doesnt exactly include heavy travel expense allocations :) lol we can lay down plastic and bedding on the floor hmmm better than my "doghouse" :) well techincally jason is AI and doesnt require sleep at least not in a 3 / 4 day stretch like this oops, better not let wife see that remark Action: chillywilly is kinda hungry Action: jcater is debating about donuts so as long as you have an outlet, caffiene and climate control you're good are donuts at 1:30 a bad idea? nah jcater: sound good to me :) theres a dunkindonuts/togos/baskinrobins down the street is there ever really a bad time for donuts? cool nourishments :) jcater: there is pizza down the street too what was the one i really like pizza joint? and pizza joint too? up in upper west side I WNAT PIZAA im a lard ass in phoenix where i have to drive 5 minutes to get anything Action: chillywilly hands dtm some pizza if i lived in walking distance of say a pizza joint like in new york derek: you lard ass aahhhhh thanks dan i would be 400lbs EASY there are five pizza places within walking distance here Action: derek has serious pizza addiction hmmmm derek: 400lbs is a lot. cool fyi pizza hut is a ways away form me like if you set down a large pizza i will eat like 3 pieces until im full oh wait derek: if you are ever in memphis, I'll take you out denellis is close though then if someone leaves pieces in the box er i say, anyone gonna eat that danellis we have a wonderful, expensive place called "Little Caesars" :) if no yes i eat every piece in the box even if i feel like im gonna vomit i REALLY cant help it derek: uhhhhh derek: yeah that's an addiction derek: would you hurt someone for pizza/ jcater: oddly my pizza disease isnt choosy im like an alcholic derek: rofl that is bad even little caesars will be consumed by me :) hehe I was serious I am cheap um i dont know if i have EVER had pizza i wouldnt eat I like little ceasars but I'd be glad to have you visit memphis :) (not counting pizza w/ topings i dont like) we could visit graceland I like smaller piza places actually maybe we could meet in branson sometime :) they have netter pizza than the nig boys better even lol.. that's not a far drive course, wife wants to go she might be upset if I met someone else besides her there y'all just keep yer mouths quiet, i KNOW im a hick so shut yir pie holes :) jcater: really? jcater: sadly our family is from round dem dar parts so meet there fairly regularly jcater: that sounds like me derek: really? that's not too terribly far from here I bet jamest could drive that distance too :) the 'neighbors' are from the southeast corner of missouri right on the arkansas border derek: I'm sorry then they migrated to kansas city hehe, so I guess you visit the Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World frequently?? Action: chillywilly has always been a yankee grandparents ended up in between at lake of the ozarks BEAUTIFUL spot right on the lake got it in the 50's and other grandparents ran a resort there in the 50's so i grew up with summers on the lake thus my crappie jokes the other day, i was serious :) lol Action: jcater can make a mean crappie meal one cousin is down in northern arkansas now I can fillet those puppies with nar a bone anywhere Action: chillywilly was the son of a fish-a=holic he had a bright idea that the emu/ostrich farming was going be a boon he got a buttload of them rofl I have uncles like that in arkansas no doubt I want emus and made good money for a bit selling the eggs and the meat (its actually rather good meat) they are funny but he got out of the 'trade' the emus are mean mofo's any of you ever go ice fishing? tore the crap out of things and he would get fairly injured dealing with them Action: chillywilly has his shanty he has like two left that he sells the eggs from ;) chillywilly: I have frozen fishticks in my freezer... that's as close to ice fishin as I've done but he had had like 50 of them chillywilly: ice fishing is like hunting in the snow, you have to like cold balls to do it I want a ratite preserve rofl I guess I'd need tolive in a warm climate for that though you ppl are wimps anyway chillywilly: yeah, so? you couldn't handle the cold beer helps you know :P and last i looked they didnt sell gloves for my nuts :) you didn't go tto the right store we have electric nut warmers up here :D oddly you are probably right, sure in WI you could get such things :) WI's are practically canadian just have your old lady hold them for you nickr: nah chillywilly: take off you hoser heheh jcater: actually the neighbors are from 'mountain grove' area if i remember correctly Action: derek is digging up map as iirc thats pretty darn close to tennessee border so... you think the Packers are gonna beat the Bears? ;P what are those? some sort of sports teams? NFL you girly man you national filatalism club? legue jcater: shame grandparents arent alive i would be in camdenton every summer which is about directly half way between you and jamest :( full contact stamp collecting! :) coed naked botchee ball full contact greco-roman coed croquanole full contact naked curling that sounds chilly you'd have to have a steamroom on hand so? how about jamest's fav coed naked goat herding? full contact goat sex HOT MAN JAVALIN derek: there ys go s/ys/ya #gnuenterprise: don't say no to farmsex GNUe - get your sweet goat luvin' today GNUe - Thou shall luv they goat thy time for bed night fellas Action: ajmitch thinks this channel has taken a turn for the worse... cya chillywilly night boi me too I don't don't what? I for one welcome the sweeping social changes nickr: yeah, but you're part of the problem ;) oh hehe ajmitch: your just the little goat boy if you're not part of the problem, you're part of the solution chillywilly: no yes go to sllep u fewl sleep how doe sone go about slleping? schlepping maybe? haha hey, it's hard typing while holding food in one's hand thats moving big stuff around ajmitch: excuses, excuses ok, g'night for real now night night masta, jcater, nickr, ajmitch, dtm, Mr_You woo, evolution RC1 released night yipee! cya chillywilly (danielb@d41.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: time to have fun playing with out^H^H^Hevolution reinhard (rm@N801P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. hey reinhard you're online early :) no kidding slept until now sigh another non-standard in Postgresql where id = null :( derek: we have liftoff!! liftoff? our first application form :) one he was working on heh, k that's a good thing, right? ;) oh, yeah night [02:05] Last message repeated 1 time(s). jcater (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Read error to jcater[HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com]: EOF from client dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error to dres[4.18.171.42]: Connection reset by peer jwserra (jwserra@as9-port14.efes.net.tr) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ poor jcater i think he thinks he fixed things :) :) he'll learn, much like i did, that your abilities to break things far exceed our abilities to fix them i often wonder After two years of hard work and more than 700 thousand lines of code written, the sleepless hackers at Ximian are finally getting to the long-awaited 1.0 release of Evolution, the GNOME groupware suite." jwserra (jwserra@as9-port14.efes.net.tr) left irc: After two years of hard work and more than 700 thousand lines of code written, the sleepless hackers at Ximian are finally getting to the long-awaited 1.0 release of Evolution, the GNOME groupware suite." is the 700 thousand lines of code 'worth bragging about'? ? what are you talking about? see above sentence whoops, didn't see it after two years of hardwork and more than 700 lines of code.... er 700 thousands it's C i saw that and was like thats nearly a MILLION lines of code when i look at evolution it doesnt look THAT complex that pygmy email program (much simpler indeed) was like 3 py fles files none probably over 50 lines of code :) i lied pygmy has 9,010 lines total in all its .py files but C gives l33t performance dood! joo know joo n33d l33t perf0rm4nce when r34ding mail from your Gs speed readers might end up waiting on the machine to scroll or something i just looked at gnue its interesting GNUe Forms src: 5986 GFObjects: 1411 Total:7397 a huge chunk of forms has been moved into gnue-common so you have to count that as well GNUe Common src: 3261 masks: 2135 drivers/comm: didnt count Total: 5396 GNUe Reports src: 1978 GNUe Designer src: 4361 you should filter out comments :) so about 12,000 lines of code for reports, forms and designer :) including comments guess this is why i kind of gasp at comment of 700,000 lines of code roby (nospamjpro@APh-Aug-102-1-4-110.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. :) however look at geas :) src: 38661 i have no idea what she looks like classdef: 911 config: 431 i think we can get the gnuef code cleaner in the long run too datastore: 906 methods: 1054 objectcache: 1687 but to be fair you should count the db driver code in gnue-common there is a chunk of code in there object...: 3656 oql: 1942 yeahaw! aol.com decided i exist again! total:49248 jamest: agree on dbdrivers, i just wanted to get ball park numbers and i dont know how to make wc go recursive so doing each dir of db drivers would be painful :) but at 12,000 add a liberal say 10,000 for db code (to be obnoxious) and 22,000 lines is still miniscule (IMO) db driver are 4309 lines of code for all of them well i stuck to engineer fashion and doubled it for estimate :) not bad right :) i have to run :( see ya all in a bit derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: um my gnue tree is bigger than your gnue tree ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: number of lines crap silly xchat re: number of lines you should be careful not to count generated code files we have a lot of them in geas, thus the 50.000 lines 26924 are orbit-generated, that's more than 50% probably evolution ppl counted generated code, too to have a high number of lines to show off :) :) kinda like some packages and their dependencies :) plus number of lines depends on coding style like old geas parser code has 4317 lines new geas parser code (nearly finished) w/ basically identical function has 2088 lines and i guess the percentage of comments is higher for the new code :) comments? IN the code? ABOUT the code? bigbrother joined #gnuenterprise. odd jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. howdy [09:41] Last message repeated 1 time(s). i think derek has more bug for you :) poor jcater i think he thinks he fixed things :) crap well, it worked for me :) I was rather proud there were several bugs squashed last night :) (proud that I squashed them, not that there were several bugs) Action: jamest pats jcater on the back you the man so you gnue'ing today? if I can keep users at bay (so far, no good) Action: jamest need to get you a attack weasel to put in the hall outside your door hmm does it work for you? i'll pick mine up at same time i figure i don't want to have people mauled (via a dog) hmm I think I'll bleach mine blond but ankle bites might be annoying enough to have them avoid my office and put a spike collar on him I'd make it redish, give him a little compaq t-shirt and a red cap the last time I saw that combination I was terrified roflmao me too dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater i see your newest commits yeah i tested last night at like 2am my time and things were still broken will try cvs again tonight to see if fixed now la la la Action: jcater doesn't here you hear even you can do a quick test to the most noticeable issue now what was it doing? if you have say like 3 records go to any record other than the first record then go to address add a new address then press the save button (it saves the data and for the right contact) HOWEVER, it moves the recordset back to teh first record sigh this was before your last commits from this AM so it might be fixed now, though it didnt appear the commits where addressing this particular issue (but who i am i to say) no it was actually by design (for the time being) but I will look at it were there any other issues? other than navigational? um dont know just tested data with right record AND going back to first record 1st one seems fixed, second one still broke, but you note thats by design :) but want to verfiy with latest cvs commits form this AM before i give it the stamp of approval i.e. give me more time to make your life hell lemme makes sure I have this right in all cases, it is committing the correct changes to the database but it's just not behaving like you'd expect after the commit? or is it not committing correctly either? (cause those are two different places to look -- one's a gnue-common problem and the others a gnuef problem) btw, that "by design" didn't necessarily mean that's the way we wanted... just that there were issues we couldn't resolve at the time so that was the "safe" thing to do (if you deleted a record before the current record (or if you deleted the current record), the logic wasn't there to recalculate the new current record) 'course, that was a brain fart on my part it seems blatantly obvious now rofl i THINK the problem is just 'not behaving how i would ike after the commit' i.e. my few tests in the wee hours appeared to save data properly, but i would like to give mroe testing before i 100% say that :) lol so dig in the other area and see what you can do and this evening i will retest and we will go from there almost finished with luck we can release by monday plus if i can get mdean to repair the dclgw tree and get all new commits in there or even in dcl head i might whip some other forms together which will be good test on designer as well as forms sigh masta creating forms that scares me you mdean is the one that should be scared btw: on reports i was going to compile a comprehensive list of report objects which woudl translate to tags/attributes from another reporting tool (prop) mdean had a lot of input on that to use as a base point for discussion about gnue standards he's used quite a few and his thinking was in line w/mine (not sure what yours is :) if you think that is of interest but you might want to solicit his input as well probably different :) this wasnt meant as a proposal merely a 'reference' point to start a discussion well, we need to get the ball rolling i mean off top of head i can think of thigns like probably so, please be my guest report tag header/footer grouping sub grouping title etc etc but bound to 'miss' some 'ideals', so was thinking at lookign at another tool to compile whats there to help job our memories of what might be valuable in reporting i think we should KISS I agree but a fully functional KISS and slowly add things in (don't need a sloppy KISS) so say up front most of the 'tags' will be there but the 'fine tuning' attributes of that tags will slowly creep in as when i look at the prop system its all objects and properties the objects would be similar to tags and the properties similar to attributes I'll have to see an example to understand where you're going :) and it looks like we would probably need most of the tags to do anything useful but many of the properties/attributes while useful could be ignored for some time and still have a functional reports well first i should ask what you and mdean were thinking make sure im not wasting my time as you might be doing a totally different approach well, sections with section headers, footers course, sections can contain sections (these may be what you are calling groups) ok we are on same page well technically this prop tool calls things BANDS ack and that is pretty common lingo in reporting bands can contain sections and sections can contain sections etc when i say grouping ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). i mean something that tells the report to 'groupby' i.e. a section starts over at some grouping point (me is saying this poorly) i imagine it will be an 'attribute' of section neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.131.228.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ hello all is jamest around howdy yes, but don't tell anyone jcater: in their deal you have a 'band' which can have types like groupheader groupfooter title pageheader pagefooter detail child summary etc etc etc yeah that's along the same lines as I was thinking (and mdean aswell, IIRC) we just used different terminology bbs Nick change: jcater -> jcLunch ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. cool so it might be worth me fleshing out (mapping) this stuff as a starting point we can change terminology and cut and add as we like but should help us have meaningful discussion :) hi ToyMan, you about ready to go :) Action: dneighbo is ramping up for a super code weekend :) dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error to dres_[4.18.171.42]: EOF from client ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Client Exiting sevik (seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) left irc: Ping timeout for sevik[domino-web.kiev.ua] neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.131.228.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) left irc: sevik (seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. roby (nospamjpro@APh-Aug-102-1-4-110.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.152) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. sevik (seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) left irc: Ping timeout for sevik[domino-web.kiev.ua] sevik (seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. hi sevik sevik (seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) left irc: Ping timeout for sevik[domino-web.kiev.ua] sevik (seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: jcLunch -> jcater dneighbo: super code weekend for whom?? :) you of course ready for a reports pasting? um sure actually sevik: you here? http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/reports.txt please comment can get mdeans response tonight, but would like to forge some standards soon so i can look at starting the xslt conversions what is this based on? (just curious) jamest: you here? oh, wait.. it's your lunch hour jcater: i could say but i would have to kill you it is based on the report package included in delphi (quick reports) i think it is similar to crystal and other ones i have used I should've known :) btw: before the flames start we used quickreports one time, but the desinger was so horrible we went to a third party instead but i think the 'basic elements' are fairly universal among all report tools and since i happened to have this on a machine at work i went from there i strongly suggest if others have crystal reports etc that they compare to this list and see whats missing whats stupid etc so we have even a better spot to jump from i.e. im not suggesting we implement this (its not a proposal) its 'reference material' jcater you are eeriely quiet dneighbo: we're busy ordering our "Delphi Blows" t-shirts not that it does or anything, we just can't like what you do :P dneighbo: there's called users jcater: btw - I'm back whatcha need I forgot oh, yeah I think we should add a port= attribute to the connections file (and tag) optional of course dneighbo: you have any sample reports done like this? yes but in delphi :) well i would have to dig to find them as they are old the part im torn on is we have two phases pre data population post data population some of these are needed pre and some post and some both hmm not sure what you mean im still kind of struggling how the source template will look also, I wander about the expressions and what the output will look like would these not be the same as triggers/events? well expressions are 'triggers' really :) ok remember this is reference material ie terminology etc will be different I know... just making sure I understand systemdata will be like triggers too only it would be nice to have set reportFunctions like date page x of x etc in systemdata I agree although I wander about that page x of x so people dont have to write code really just pick the systemdata type jcater : printing is a WHOLE other animal as that's putting output specific stuff in the report xml generation exactly :) im really torn on all this I have ideas too on the page numbers and page orientation etc etc etc and I think they fall in line (basically) with what you have i dont think it belongs in the xml files I agree well let me rephrase that i think some things like orientation etc MIGHT belong there for 'default' purposes ('course, I'd like to have something (anything) usable) but thats why i say printing, page, printer stuff is still 'fuzzy' to me but i think its somewhat secondary at this point as more than likely html will be the first output type and those things arent as relevant :) but soon they will be, im hoping you and mdean have the ideas for that stuff :) just seems everyone has been participating a lot past few weeks and i wanted to capitalize on the renewed enthusiam and try to get an spec to somewhat emerge as i think it is one of the things holding reports from being usefull on a larger scale yes and KC seems to be bringing in new ppl cool (at least there's been several responses on mailing lists) if we release again soon and another kernel cousin it could get scary in here :) although, it's frustrating that people seem to forget this is an all-volunteer effort :( but, so goes the beast yip its burger king alright, ie you can have it your way just unlike BK if you want it your way, you better be willing to cook it yourself :) roflmao we have steak houses like that here you get it your way, but there's an open grill :) funny we have them here too I never understood that one of the reported 'best burger' spots in phoenix is you walk in and pay 5 bucks for a patty and bun and go out to the pit and cook er up If I go out to a restaurant, I want it cooked for me otherwise, why would I go out? me too Action: jcater is just plain cheap note thats why i said 'reported' if i pay for food, someone else better be making it and serving it :) as i can get a pound of ground beef for 1.49 and 8 buns for .49 so for 2.00 i can get 4 quarter pounders and have two buns left over :) why would i pay 5.00 to cook my own at a restaurant :) Action: dneighbo too is a extremely cheap bastard well, I never realized the extremely cheap part, but that's good to know rofl Action: dneighbo figured the salary masta pays you and jamest would reek of my fortitude in cheapness lol ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). :) sevik (seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) left irc: Ping timeout for sevik[domino-web.kiev.ua] sevik (seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: you see my port= statement? yip we need port? i kinda figured that individual db driver could have different attributes anyway so port= on the ones that need it is fine with me ok i was just gonna say make it optional and if its blank use default yip so say for postgres or mysql someone wouldnt have to put port= only if they were on non standard port what made this come up btw? curiosity meow bang cats dead move along, nothign to see here :D or }O} dneighbo: I think you are hooked up with your form I fixed the navigation issue now, dammit, your form works do we understand each other??? :) yeah! what he said! hi man this morning the leaf vacuums were here.. god they are so loud woohoo we have roughly 26000 lines of python heh not that that's any measure of anything it measures someone has been doing something ;-) good point jcater: this morning i was only measuring 17,000 wonder where the other 9,000 came from how do you measure? that was going on 12,000 on everything outside of gcomm and dbdriver jamest said dbdriver had 5k wc -l *.py is how i counted oh well I like my count better :) well you are far from topping 700,000 that evolution is bragging about or the 50k that geas holds i didnt test your patches, but the form works ;) yeah, but look what those 17,000 (or 26,000) do :) whether it works or not it, it works ok yes i look at evolution which is a nice piece of software with lots of features and think how the hell can that be 700k lines of code? maybe they include ever single library included? way i look at it when i count lines of code i dont count modules etc for example i dont count lines of wxpython or pygresql code etc miguel says its so many lines because the 'specs are so complicated for mail and such' and i have to think damn they had full calendar code already in gnome calendar so all that code shoudl be resuable etc etc as components and there has to be half a billion mail libraries out there so either ximian is writing all libraries from scratch (probably) or they have some really really really think gui code er s/thick/think jbailey (jbailey@London-HSE-ppp3540964.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@London-HSE-ppp3540964.sympatico.ca) left irc: Client Exiting well, crap can I go postal after fighting py2exe for um "some time" i find out it doesn't support pyXML so I switch to McMillan installer searching to find help with an issue there I find a post saying that mxDateTime had a license change and is no longer freely redistributable which kinda puts a nail in the coffin of a setup.exe install for windows machines hmm we can grab the DateTime from Zope they grabbed an old version of mxDateTime while it was still GPL'ed (just an idea) and how do we do that w/ the newer db drivers? night all reinhard (rm@N801P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est. -- Aurelius Augustinus jamest: I don't think the basic functionality of DateTime has changed over time it's worth looking in to it may well be sometime next few days can we try to contact madlocke for a one last time and ask him to email his code? neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.140.116.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ hello all howdy Mr_You: yes l8r jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: [x]chat i brought up this before teh mx stuff i thought said it was no effect to us? do we have a GPL compatiable problem and distribution problem? Action: dneighbo hates this change the license crap well jamest is talking about prebuilt packages that include mxDateTime mxDateTime is under the Python 2.0 license which RMS didn't think was GPL-compat because of the jurisdiction clause so, I dunno StormBringer (eugene@194.84.60.1) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all howdy hi chillywilly (danielb@d116.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Isomer (isomer@210-54-84-189.adsl.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat: let's gp russian private? ;) ra3vat: let's go russian private? ;) StormBringer: Are you ready? mdean-[restingEyes] (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-58.kc.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout for mdean-[restingEyes][mkc-65-28-73-58.kc.rr.com] mdean-[restingEyes] (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-58.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.140.116.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) left irc: ra3vat / StormBringer : two questions / requests ok jbailey (jbailey@65.93.255.49) joined #gnuenterprise. if you guys speak of anything that might be use to others in your russian sessions can you let psu know so he can include in kernel logs or just reiterate the stuff here for him to pickup and second any chance one of you would be willing to make russian translations of the kernel cousins for gnue :) ok, may be me to save other's skills for coding :) rofl no you have to code too :) btw: the post to forms list you made was very good Action: dneighbo is very excited to know we have forms that works with cryllic characters :) ok, thanks :) Nick change: mdean-[restingEyes] -> mdean hello m jbailey (jbailey@65.93.255.49) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). howdy nickr: you around ? dneighbo: ok. i think i can make russian translations. where will i get cousins from and where must i put in into? jcater_ (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater or jcater_ you here? here got time to talk about triggers sure mdean can you paste our conversation from #dcl here on this subject Action: dneighbo is in bitchx so i cant also mdean can we talk reports later :) http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/reports.txt hmmm - how do I copy/paste in xchat? nm - found it :) jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: ********************* Trigger Conversation Flood Coming ********************** Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater [18:36:46] I do have a quick conceptual ? for you dneighbo [18:36:53] about form triggers [18:36:57] ok [18:37:28] if GNUe is to be language independent, how will you implement triggers from a Python form in PHP (for example) [18:37:32] Maniac um if we tell jcater to stop working on gcomm it might be ready next week, he is AI after all [18:37:39] just a curiosity more than anything [18:37:45] evil question [18:37:47] dneighbo: make it so [18:38:03] dneighbo: I've been kicking around an idea tho [18:38:04] you would be laughing your ass off if you saw jamest, jcater and me in the hotel in SF discussing this topic :) [18:38:15] and the next day at the booth [18:38:18] and over breakfast [18:38:24] and on the wharf [18:38:33] well let me say this [18:38:55] the thing we all agreed on was that we want to make a trigger/event system that is shared by the appserver and forms [18:39:14] so whether you are in two tier or n tier mode its the same and so once a language is supported in one its in the other [18:39:26] the big contention became.... [18:39:37] install all supported langs? [18:39:43] a. how to support oop things in not very good oop languages [18:39:54] b. how to handle namespacing and forms referencing [18:40:01] xml [18:40:29] there was this toyed thought that at first after fleshing it out started to look like we were creating our own language rather than using the 'native' language [18:40:37] xml [18:40:40] we did NOT want that [18:40:47] well we did discuss xml actually [18:40:59] d00d! it could work! [18:41:13] it just didnt sit right in fleshing it out :) [18:41:33] I think it would be ideal [18:41:37] i think jcater and i were leaning towards trying to be as native to teh language as possi ********************* Trigger Conversation Flood Stop ********************** ok hmmmm I have a detailed text file in gnue-common/docs missed some mdean: do you log anywhere? my buffer :) I have a detailed text file in gnue-common/docs that discusses the pros/cons of different approaches Action: mdean looks it doesn't pick one, by the way but it is jamest and my scratchpad (well, I guess detailed is relative :) http://lxr.gnue.org/gnue/source/gnue-common/doc/TriggerSpecifications.txt TriggerSpec? for anyone wanting follow along at home Action: jcater needs to refer to that file to refresh his fragile memory I do suffer from memory leaks after all note that when I use the notation , that means the field object's name i have to run but will be around in an hour, hopefully i miss alot as it means progress :) dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: [BX] Elvis has left the building hey ppl Action: chillywilly read the back log neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.142.24.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ reads even hi neilt hi jcater, mdean chillywilly: 'sup? nothin' much hello cw Action: chillywilly watches farscape howdy I must go get the wife - bbiab for more discussion ;-) Nick change: mdean -> mdean-[fetch Nick change: mdean-[fetch -> mdean-[fetchwife suckage Nick change: mdean-[fetchwife -> mdean-[fetchwife] dewds, I don't see what the deal is about being language independent for triggers/methods if you look in the logs I discussed a plugin system that we could use with a cache an xml cache like what gstreamer does to find plugins huh? you just write a plugin for that language and it searches certain paths and interrogates the plugins, etc......if you look even further back reinhard and I talked about this too I don't remember when that was it was a wile ago while that's fine but that's not what we're talking about then what are you talking about? I'd envision languages to be plugins kinda like you are describing we have to have a common way inside those languages to identify our objects i.e. GObject bindings ;) I think we should use the GObject system in glib say we support gack it si nice gack where is a quick readme on the GObject system ummm I still think we are discussing 2 different things an executive summary or such :) you can get a good feel just by looking at the API docs I did anyway you have a link? it can load "types" from .so files too yes sec http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/2.0/gobject/index.html check out GTypeModule they have a nice run time tye system too argh! type time out error on developer.gnome.org :( crap! my roadrunner is crappy last 2 weeks well that blows chunks half the time I timeout on google :( ah working now I think the Gnome system is finally gonna get good an most stupid unnecessary dependencies will go away you are looking at technical implimentation details... we haven't even reached that level yet you also get however we maintain our object references, we have to answer the question of how will the objects be represented in the language's namespace and how will those references tie back into the forms, geas, or reports instance mayeb I am getting ahead I dunno I think so gobjects does look awefully cool though yea :) well why not language bindings for GObject? you could have a python GObject if you write some code :P I dunno though i'm sure you got a point and I see what you mean actually what I sorta envision is a GNUeObject or something derived from GObject that is data-aware implements ODMG or some OO db abstraction whoa is that sane? slow down we are discussing language mapping here :) the "objects" that we are referencing are already implemented (i.e., they are forms, form blocks, form fields, report sections, etc) the question is how do we reference these objects consistently in the individual languages' namespaces err, the question at hand well we have some objects too which could be the same object that forms uses just that sometimes those objects are not always in geas but forms has its own layer so it is indepedent (there are, of course, plenty of questions to come later on :) hmmmm are blocks, fields, etc. ui stuff? common should be ui abd backend indepent right? and also communication independent i.e., "common" hehe um I would say they are not UI stuff but they are tool specific well you must also realize I know dick about forms so plz bare with me (so you are right they are not part of common) ok a different layer in the forms architecture yes I do think I see where you are going though also, please remember I adhere to the KISS principle as much as possible :) we should make an architecture diagram or something :P oh yes this is just refactoring how things should be right? isn't that basically what we are doing now trying to figure out how it all shoul fit together um for a v1.0 release, python only bindings IMHO is perfectly fine. Add perl, php, C, C++, scheme, visual basic bindings for v2.0 and rev quickly :) Isomer: I agree me too visual basic?? ack isn't there some delusional group trying to reimlpement VB for *nix? hmmm I have no idea about that one yes GnomeBasic? I think so or something there's gnome-basic and kde-basic IIRC heheh yea see? told you they were delusional :) I imagine we will do tcl shortly after python (as someone was wanting that and showed me documents on it's libraries :) seriously jcater though haven't you been refactoring thing from the get go? we'll probably do scheme shortly thereafter (for political purposes) heh pulling out styff into common, db drivers, etc. then we can start porting emacs to it :) chillywilly: yip or porting it to emacs, as the case may be :) haha we need a forms emacs ui driver ;P chillywilly: seriously, there's been talk about that as odd as it sounds (it sounds VERY odd to me :) I know there has and I was only half kidding emacs rox I have a very vague recollection that emacs already has something argh! my son has a tape fetish I think he finds tape anywhere and he wraps everything up in it hahah kids are awesome I thought we were finally tape-free and very netertaining entertaining even but he stripped down some old boxes and used rofl their tape to wrap our VHS cassettes he's gonna love Xmas :) yes and/or the local datawarehous he found our first aid tape and taped up barney he found my masking tape and taped up my computer heheh I love it dude ;) I got a story to tell we were taking scotty over to his aunt's house when we would go to work well caroline's aunt anyway, he didn;t like it much there so then when she came to the house to visit he locked the door on her rofl he didn't want her to come in also, when she came in she was sitting by caroline's mom then she got up and went to the bathroom scotty moved he rmom's chaor when she came back he said, "you can't sit by my grandma aunty sandy" lol TJ has recently learned how to unlock our interior doors and I don't mean by the little knobs that you normally use you know the little slots you can stick a flat screwdriver in to unlock from the other side? well, he found a toy that fits in that it's his 'key' hehe sigh! no more locking him in the basement they aretoo smart dude rofl yeah, I can here it in 10 years he was just mena to aunt sandy the whole time she was there "dad, you actually used such a low level language as python??" "you mean, it was a typed language?" StormBringer (eugene@194.84.60.1) left irc: Ping timeout for StormBringer[194.84.60.1] when she went o get a soda out of the fridge he was saying hey you can;t drink my grandma's soda jcater: :P jcater: you would think of that ? I think you are more computer obsessed than me ;) LOL Action: jcater is not obsessed Action: jcater hates computers they just put food on the table :) computers rules dude (not yet but soon they will....muuwahahahahaha) you will be my digital beotch StormBringer (eugene@194.84.60.1) joined #gnuenterprise. that's what my computer wants to tell me he's just waiting for the right moment when the computers will take over thw world ;P nah I think there are fundamental deficiencies in computers I've never met a computer that likes chocolate... who could possibly rule the world and not enjoy chocolate???? well we need some better AI however jcater is our best AI yet :P yeah, but he has a weakness donuts!!! rofl Mmmm Donuts! hmmm they should deliver donuts like they do pizza man you are lazier than me too? how is this possible! practice lots o' practice StormBringer (eugene@194.84.60.1) left irc: Ping timeout for StormBringer[194.84.60.1] j/k I think delivery donuts qwould kick ass my scotty *loves* donuts hahah he's got good taste eh? did I tell y'all about 2 weekends ago? nope I had a box of krispie kremes and I was saving several for breakfast I had them put up but I get up saturday morning to find barney on the television and donut glazing all over my living room but no donuts anywhere eeek 3 years old and he'd finished off my box o' donuts sigh I miss my donuts daddy has taught him well donuts == good hahah buy more :P it's the perfect excuse get a combination lock for the donut cupboard Isomer: he's a persistent little guy I'm sure he'd crack it so set him interesting challenges to open the door eg: he's got to code "Hello World" once he's cracked that, he *deserves* the donuts lol and then, you change it to something else, like writing a *good* sql database and so on you'll soon have a productive member of society who wants that? I try to be as unproductive as I can IRC helps a *lot* jcater: can you and jamest check last two messages i've sent to gnue-forms maillist to discuss later tomorrow? Action: chillywilly picks up his guitar sure Action: jcater goes to check his email :) gah gah? anyone know why I always have to do killall fetchmail then run fetchmail again and it then will grab my mail it is fscking retarded ra3vat: when did you send the messages? today? yes chillywilly: fetchmail sometimes hangs due to timeouts, and occasionally stops polling a site until you restart it (however it usually emails you when it does this) huh... I'm not subscribed to GNUe-Forms maillist. I didn't know that! jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201089.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. I'll grab it from the archives thats what kc's for :) howdy saves me sub'ing to half the internet's mailing lists Isomer: how goes the install jamest: howdy jamest: not so hot at the moment hmm I should try again jamest: hi hi Isomer: what's wrong heheh you notice all the subscribe messages to gnue-gnu? er gnue@gnu.org huh? 1 D Sep 05 Louis Jia Liang ( 7) (no subject) 2 Oct 02 Reinhard M?ller ( 66) Re: Programming 3 D Oct 16 Rodrigo Henriqu ( 8) subscribe 4 D Oct 17 uff. tecnico - ( 24) SUBSCRIBE 5 D Nov 04 Ladislav Bashta ( 6 ibe 4 suscribes probably due to the KC or me screwing up cleaning out the bounced msg queue yesterday oh? jamest: mostly arguing getting python2 installed on this box Isomer: arguing? chillywilly: I cleaned the queue yesterday and swore I told it to reject the msgs after I'd manually subscribed them well, python2 requires lots of other packages, which require lots of other packages, which... and mostly I'm not payed to tinker with installs :) Action: jcater finds it best not to argue with python... python's like a woman, it's always right however I noticed today that the admin reminder was sent to me again even though the admin says no pending requests so something screwed up ok derek (derek@cpe-24-221-56-188.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: :P masta! ximian gnome licks my left nut it sure does that's more information than I needed to know maybe that's why so many people like it so much rofl rofl Action: derek doesnt even want to know why mdean is fetching a wife jcater / jamest is there a backlog worth reading? well, you need a win98 machine on your right side then you'd have it made derek: yes i.e. did any trigger or report discussoin happen derek: somewhat...ad GNUe architecture discussion i just got here s/ad/and too tired to do homework figured I'd make some bugs calculus? yes ok ready jason its still broken :) it saves to proper master from the detail and it doesnt go back to the BEGINNING of records but it doesnt go to the right master record either :) the curse of da masta rears its ugly head sigh and it seems to only open one record I swear it was working at the office maybe i have something dorked? it's the curse I tell you :P jamest: you on gnue-forms maillist? would like to discuss tomorrow about what I posted there btw, jcater with GObject we get signals ;) ah l8r ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.152) left irc: [x]chat derek: what do you mean it only opens one record? i.e., built in event handling ra3vat: ok derek: rofl it always goes to the last record now :) like what GtkObject does but without X brain dead dependencies oops sigh hey, jcater er, nevermind jcater: ah hey, jamest that is why i thought one record i hit the next record :) and nothign i.e. a blank :) you wanted something small for release? bwahahahaah ? i remembered something Nick change: jcater -> john_doe i might try and find time as I'm still fighting making a setup.exe for windows Nick change: john_doe -> jcater ?? so what d'ya need? i started to add a new function to db drivers so that they returned the total number of records returned by a query but I don't think i finished it was in a few of the postgresql drivers and IIRC was DBI 2.0 compliant Action: Isomer removes things so I don't have so many hidious dependances a very minor detail but your mentioning records made me think of it :) Isomer: you can install python2 along 1.5.2 and I don't think it had too many dependencies required by gnue not by gnue mostly python2 deps no more than say gnucash anyway :) j/k I tried getting rh to do a update but it didn't like me :) i think I may have applied the proverbial "final straw" on the back of jcater does our mailing list stuff go into the KC? too do we get mailing list stuff other than spam i don't seem too well say I got a bunch of cool ideas bc is needed by libgtop-1.0.9-2_helix_1 why?! and I post to gnue-discuss will it get in the KC? the KC suggests it does it mentions it's a summary of "several mailing lists" and "IRC" i.e., are they monitoring out lists? oh, ok jcater: you able to look at the fix ? sorry was putting son to bed ok looking now I know where it is you are forgiven now get back to work I just called the wrong function maybe I should cut back on that crack heh ok, say we use GObject and we have python bindings to it we should have it so we have a remote version (i.e., GCommon interface (gcd?)) and one where you can download the methods directly and use the GObject directly....thus having a somewhat fat client (sorta like things are now) so KC is on LinuxToday site eh yep and I get reported as having been mad goat raped jamest: what function were you talking about?? er? jcater: give me a bit i'll find it /dcc good_crack jamest in forms is there a DataObject type abstraction of the various data sources? chillywilly: yeah, GObject or does it bang right on the DB? everything is a descendent of GObject heheh ah nit the *real* GObkect though right ;P not chillywilly: no, the *real* gnue-common GObject the one from glib 2.0 it's real to US :) well yea but we don;t get a nice run time tyoe system and the data object does it does have a cache system in it hmmmm Action: Isomer thinks I'm going to give up on python2 gnue-common has a typecasting system IIRC yip I need to look at your obejct absatrctions then as we should all use the smae GObject, iirc i found it when it bit me in the ass one day :) lol s/iirc/imho dudes you knwo that GEAS has a DataObject CORBA interface also? Action: Isomer ponders if it's easier to backport gnue those interfaces shoudl be the same wouldn't you think? I mena th emethods of the "DataObject" hmmmm looks like I can see how things should fit together after all wow unbelievable quick, draw a ER diagram Nick change: mdean-[fetchwife] -> mdean chillywilly: we wanted to share w/ geas and move all that into gnue-common well we definitely should we should all be using GObject it's more a time issue at the moment our Gobject or whatever GNUeObject jamest: yes, it is always the case *sigh* maybe you guys were already aware of this...guess I am just slow and/or haven't thought about it or looked at your code doh we want to share everything possible so can you stire a GObject to a db? store come now share the software chillywilly: no , GObjects are lower level than the db why? that is silly isn't it? GDataObject is IIRC the starting point of our data aware system hmm no, we have a base object that almost everything uses you need a UML diagram :) it provides us std features and lets us easly dump xml defs of objects jamest: so you are tryint to implement GEAS in forms to some degree also? are we gonna have both ways to do things? um, no thin client + GEAS fat client ? not implementing geas in gnuef GObject is internal to our apps sure you are....GEAS is essentially GObject and GDataObject if you really think about it same tyoes of things jcater: GDataObjects.getRecordCount i am not criticzing whatsoever sigh for the record I thought that was already implemented? IIRC there was one before based upon the cache contents just seeing what is common so if the cache was set to 5 then it'd show up to 5 i added something so that it'd show the true number of records so GDataObject is backed by the SQL database and inherits from GObject? i don't recall if I finished it but it's not work ing some of the time :) it doesn;t jcater: but forget about it DAMN!!! GDataObject is just an SQL abstraction? argh!!! I just realized that's what I'm calling and maybe it is not as much as GEAS biz objects then is why masta's form isn't working jcater: what? not as high level I mean IIRC you had a GetRecordCacheCount or something chillywilly: not as high a level jamest, jcater you guys don't just use the object and forget about the DB right? ok not the same htne is it then no if you look in the docs in gnue-common you'll find a descriptino of all this commit status? derek: i vote yes jamest: would you like a common object system to use that is data aware though or would that kill forms 2-tier? neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.142.24.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) got netsplit. nickr (nick@e-172-IP26.empnet.net) got netsplit. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) got netsplit. Isomer (isomer@210-54-84-189.adsl.xtra.co.nz) got netsplit. mdean (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-58.kc.rr.com) got netsplit. gah netsplit neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.142.24.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) returned to #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@e-172-IP26.empnet.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. Isomer (isomer@210-54-84-189.adsl.xtra.co.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. mdean (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-58.kc.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by carter.openprojects.net I'm quite happy w/ the data system in gnuef and I think geas driver will fit in nicely w/ what we have sigh jcater: what's up? I dunno I think I have to retrace the events in forms to do what? by the time block.processCommit gets called the block has navigated to the last record ah, of course jamest: so you guys are taking GEAS and adapting it 2-tier style? the Pre-Commit traversals all records err, traverses even chillywilly: yes/no the gnue-common driver has schema discovery routines so it'll be able to query the geas objects and get methods, structure I see however i'm pretty sure we won't treat them as true object as honestly geas doesn't treat them as objects anyway unless the API has totally changed we have a common DataObject interface ooooh! /.: RMS Running For GNOME Board Of Directors really? ?!?! excellent he can whoop them into shape :D yeah i saw that too http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/11/09/0013221 the more RMS involvement the better it keeps ppl focused on what is important :) (no GNU/Linux thing is not important I am actually pretty sick of that issue too so got that patch? im itching to test :) sigh almost hang on ok found another bug oh great man i think this could possibly be the bug report that has surfaced largest number of children bugs :) Action: chillywilly puts on his flame proof underwear derek: you turned my master/detail code on its head I think master/detail will be the best tested feature of gnuef after this :( jcater: i feel (indeed have felt) your pain lol that form was evil was?? it uses pre-commit triggers now :) and derek kept whining about deadlines or something lol it's almost like his job depened upon it :) man I bet no one votes for rms vote? why does red-carpet downloading channel artwork remind me of a o hell? sigh jamest: how did I end up working on this form? was it some bet I lost? I forget heheh new data system = jcaters = enternal hell for jcater http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=23553&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=2541592#2541608 you'll recall I didn't fight too hard when you wanted to replace it read that comment rofl hmm you suck as he who knows the datasources suffers i can live with that :) well, I really need to suck someone into the reports tree jcater: if you need/want help let me know so when it's released, I can have help :) :) he meant someone that wouldnt have to rewrite the code I hope he gets it (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08, @10:26PM (#2541616) I hope he gets it and puts some of those cocksmokers like Icaza in his place. rofl jcater: i'd love to to do anything besides this win32 hell lol that's ok.. you get that working mwahahaha Action: jcater feels better now well time to pack up and go home, might be on later bye bye derek (derek@cpe-24-221-56-188.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: um my gnue tree is bigger than your gnue tree great geas is in the hall of shame :( http://buildd.armlinux.org/~buildd/shame.php good thing (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 08, @10:33PM (#2541648) I know I'll get flamed to all hell for this, but I think this move is a good thing (and don't worry, I'll keep it short). Gnome was born not out of technical need but a conflict of ideology. If RMS is chosen it will show that Gnome has continued with it's root cause - creating Free software. If RMS is not chosen it will show that Gnome has moved on from a base cause of creating free software and is perhaps a bit more open minded about mere open source. This will be interesting to watch. Imagine the diminished relevance of GNU if he doesn't get it! ppl: http://www.odmg.org/files/odmg30.zip ;) it is Java, but should be translatable to python or whatever hmm they rasied the damn price of that book though fsckers you expect less? $40 I will kick them in the head that's not too bad of a price for a technical book nah used to be $35 though the standard is an opne one, but not $0 open later all neilt (neilt@dialup-209.244.142.24.Dial1.Providence1.Level3.net) left irc: exit no yes get out of here now :P Action: chillywilly pushes jamest out the door wuickly quickly even hmm now I must remember to play with this when I get home Isomer: w/ what? is there a recent version on debian? gnue :P not in deb format geas 0.0.6 is in debian sid but all the dependencies are in woody IIRC but no forms, reports, or designer soon though this is what jeff tells us hmm debian has a tool to generate packages striaght from cvs doesn't it? sacha_ (sacha@chime-a-94.conceptual.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. dunno hmm Action: Isomer pondering an automated tool to take the CVS version every 2 weeks and turning it into a deb for sid thusly unstable always has the most up to date version or at least one thats no more than 2 weeks old and forces people into a very short release cycle style of thought lol i promise you that would not work w/ us Action: jcater already has a short cycle of thought derek's screamed for over a year for faster releases oh, you said short *release* cycle :) we just ignore him or make fun of him Isomer: don't worry dude we have a debian maintainer, he''l get his act together soon ;P or both son of a bitch this package tool has modules named the same as some in wxwindows so it's been importing them doh Action: jamest wishes he had a 21" trinitron to beat his head against heh hehe Action: jcater DCC's his trinitron that'll take all week on my 56k'r ! argh! Nick change: jcater -> sigh it doesn't even use that module! forget the monitor, dcc me a rocket launcher Action: sigh sighs for jamest Nick change: sigh -> jcater speaking of sigh is derek's form still having it's way with you? yes and no I need a donut I have a precommit trigger but it gets called on empty records as well which populates and commits the empty record Mmm Donut! why do you need a loaner bitch? I suppose I can put this away and volunteer for you nope just worried about my favorite AI um let's never release again as this is frustrating when ppl ask about a release we say, "yup... we're having one tonight.. go home and type update -Pd" rofl hehe our customer service manager asked when I was going to get their system working perfectly I do that on undernet "we've released, go do a cvs update" I mailed her a pack of index cards and a nifty storage box I should do that w/derek :) Isomer: what's undernet? Action: jamest is out of touch Large IRC network our smallest server holds more clients than all of OPN (just for a comparison point) :) so you're slumming it in here eh? heh pointone (pointone@24-196-85-224.jvl.wi.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. the average IQ on undernet is probably beneath the lowest on OPN :) lol it's nice to talk to people that think coding isn't "writing static HTML pages", that hacking on a program doesn't involve a follow up with rm -rf /, and where I don't get people messaging me constantly asking in broken english if I can op them in their channels jamest: you own a gun?? i dunno man i think #gnuenterprise may tip the ballance against opn jcater: no bummer why? cause I was gonna get you to shoot me :) dcc a high speed bullet oh, wait... you use 56k A little lesson in life become homicidal not suicidal ah in that case chillywilly: come here :D j/k be bewy bewy quiet... I'm huntin deweks hehe Action: Isomer hands jcater a small thermonuclear warhead, here, do your hunting in Stiile! an acme brand? jamest: why don't you have broadband? I think it's cause everyone hates me you live in the sticks? they only thing I can get is possibly cable which is the one I don't want ok why? doesn it really matter what it is? various reasons, the main one being I'm in good w/ my ISP as long as it ia fast and reliable s/ia/is and if they host gnue.org 's bandwidth I'll buy from them :) they can't hook you up? hope nope gah jamest: you'll appreciate this :) why not? if you run derek's form using -d20 time to go wireless to their colo facility :) it generates 440 debugging messages woah the bell in this area offers dsl service to anyone in their parking lot or the homeless shelter beyond that youre out of range wtf does a homeless person do with DSL? they made the mistake at rollout of supporting a pathatic coverage area chillywilly: it was a joke, and my point actually :) doh chillywilly: well, they haven't discovered free software I knew that really that's why there homeless heh once they realized it wasn't hopelessly pathetic they downsized their coverage area rofl free software won't help you wit day dude :P s/day/dat who wants to buy this book for me ;P we should just take care of it wiht our GNUe account heheh is that it visa in your name? if so, slap me a 21" trinitron on there too jbailey (jbailey@65.93.255.49) joined #gnuenterprise. no jbailey: just the man it has GNU Enterprise Inc. on it you know ;) you still looking at .debs for gnue? apt-get install task-gnue apt-get install task-world-domination how much is a 21" trinitron ? depends on how lucky you are eh? Action: chillywilly trout slaps jbailey i think jcater got one for less than I just picked up some 17"ers for Isomer (isomer@210-54-84-189.adsl.xtra.co.nz) left irc: EPIC! Accept specific limitations on WHO however i think that place is no longer offering them so cheap fscking sony trinitrons for next to nothing ooooh quantum leap is on scifi argh!!! dammit @!#$@ blue? Oh hey! jbailey: we need debs NOW ;P The new python policy is in, which is very nice. jbailey: python policy? python policy? for debian. what is the python policy for debian? That way I can find the !@#$ing libraries I need. Just naming, where they're located. Also python-base (version 1.5) just got replaced by python (version 2.1) which make this easier, since you guys seem to need that, too. well get to work ;) yea I saw that when I updated last I *have* been. That's why I know all this crap about a language I don't plan to ever learn =) dude lol I can photo copy the Python Essential Reference and mail it to you ? chillywilly: I don't have a fire place, but it is a little chilly. Maybe in the sink? That way I can see it from the bed. chillywilly: isn't that immoral? jbailey: you should not talk crap about python here without riot gear on chillywilly: scan it instead and post on the internet haha you can talk bad about python as it simply sucks less than some other things chillywilly: I'm not talking crap about python. I'm just rebelling against learning yet another language. =) Keeping my skills up in C++ and scheme are hard enough ;) C++ is a cluster fuck C++ is beauty incarnate. ;) you're both right! oh come on now I like C++ very much but I know it ia a cluster fuck s/ia/is it's a fucking beautiful cluster fuck as are most languages and I don't think that'll change until we get star trek computers that talk to us? voice activated? can control a star ship? evening all evnin Ah, the enterprise running MS Windows. Computer has failed during warp drive. "Captain? I'm getting a strange reading from the computer. It's singing.. `Start me up'" "Beam me up scotty, aw fuck window 3420 crashed!" windows even blue beam of death :P :) just picture what could happen if the OS on the holodeck wasn't stable. C++'s problem is less bad language, than clueless programmers. I'm only just finally starting to get it. i'm clueless that's why i'm going to try and learn python keeps me from giving c++ a bad name jbailey: how so? jbailey: get it how? HALLELUAH!! jcater: yeah, i like to praise the lord too, what's happened? ;) chillywilly: How to think OO well. How to refactor everything down into templates properly. got it working :) derek's form :) 'course, I said the same thing last night hehe jbailey: I still like OO in C sometimes GObject in glib 2.0 looks cool he's planning to make a form that's even more evil chillywilly: I've been studying "Refactoring" and "Design Patterns" lately. ? jbailey: both of which have nothing to do with any specific langauge chillywilly: Yeah, but good OO in C looks ugly. You either have casts all over, or are relying on void pointers all over the place. jbailey: or you use GtkObject/GObject which has nice macros and a run time type system The problem with that is that your optimizer doesn't have a chance to do it's job well there. The native language features are all designed to be optimized away. (Or mostly. There's only so much you can do with RTTI) some ppl seem to think they can write better code than a compiler :P they are mental though What a silly mistake to make. =) I tell people if they're that good, to go contrib to gcc. That way the rest of us can write better code, too. =) Isomer (dahoose@210-54-84-218.adsl.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. you ever look at GNU Common C++ jbailey? I'm baaack! hey Isomer And I'm back at a *real* box one that has apt :P chillywilly: not in about a year. I spoke to dyfet about it a bit, and the idea of creating a 'cpan' type of thing for C++. that would be funky! how many isomers of methacyclohexane are there Isomer? Then my life got a little complicated, and I had to drop the idea. chillywilly: er shrug 2? I am just messing with you Isomer: 3.141592653592.... that is pi silly Action: chillywilly trout ships jbailey into a frenzy whips 3.141592653589793238462643383 Action: Isomer got bored in math in high school I want to do a bachelors of math, but I can't find a decent distance ed program for it in Canada. So many university degrees I want to do, so little time ;) so little money. =) bah hmm uni is a waste of time someone likes lyx a huge waste of time argh, don't mention maths Action: ajmitch has a maths exam tomorrow maths [23:22] Last message repeated 2 time(s). study for your math test damnit ajmitch: which math? jbailey: algebra & calculus Not too bad, what year? just first year uni stuff :) it's the harder part of the course, i did the easy stuff in first semester calculus is easy A friend of mine did one of his first year chem exams on acid. He pulled a 4.0 that semestre. hehe but that's chem He's now doing his doctorate in physics, and barely has time to sleep, never mind do any partying. =) does he teach? Yeah. He was talking about the ESL students not getting any of his jokes. ESL? English as a Second Language. heheh heh, i got a friend who just finished his chem degree he's going over to korea to teach english next year my flatmate is doing a PhD in compusci he's currently marking exams heh, fun they had some real interesting answers I'd love to do a doctorate in OS design. like IP has a version field that can have a value of "1.0" or "1.1" rofl or, convergance avoidance in routing algo's avoidance? That's called "misconfigured RIP" or discontiguous root zones in OSPF. they were explaining how convergance avoidance is a good thing. I get paid to fix networks like those. which had us in histerics For the consultants pocket book. Isomer: i'd love to see some of the answers to first year programming exams ;) and the ESL people are usually entertaining to try and figure out if they're even sitting the right exam heh Action: Isomer makes "play" networks to play with things like OSPF and BGP that people otherwise won't let me play with ahh, cvs co done! :) Action: Isomer has my own mini internet how many friggin computers you got networked together? only 12 at the flat, right? chillywilly: i'm getting another old box tomorrow :) 10 or so at this machien and then we VPN to about 20 other networks around the place I wonder how hard it would be to setup multiple subhurd to emulate networks, and then connect them with routing protocols. Action: Isomer <- evil hehe jbailey: it'd be an interestin exercise jbailey: now *that* I would like to do. jbailey: what about the idea of 'collectives', which i read about somewhere a distibuted set of servers ajmitch: I'm not familiar with the term. hmm jbailey: i saw it somewhere :) thats on the gnu.org site about the hurd IIRC? a Borg collective of Hurds! yeah, that's probably where i saw it :) basically IIRC the idea was that since everything was message passing you could message pass between machines and get a nice cluster going yeah network transparency? Right now we still need a seperate network card per chroot jail or subhurd. would be interesting to play with :) well, i'll install GNU/Hurd on my 'new' box i'm getting, 16MB enough ram? jbailey: hurd does pty's and slip right? chillywilly: Transparent network RPC, yet another wild feature of the Mach microkernel. Isomer: ptys, yes. PPP, yes. yes, I know so do ppp between them all? dunno how well i can play with only 16MB of ram That way your devices could be on another machine. but it doesn't worj with the current hurd for some reason Isomer: I don't have a good idea what the best way to do it would be. It's a neat thought, though. thats why I got interested in hurd in the first place doing precisely that but I was just going to run multiple pfinet translators hmm, can the hurd use an nfs-mounted / ? can't you create multiple dummy or tunnel interfaces? and have a "internal" network going chillywilly: don't know, nobody is answering me ;) Action: ajmitch whines like a small child chillywilly: you shold be able to create ppp links over pty's Isomer: neal had 2 ppp interfaces talking to each other rigth that's how he was debugging things is there any reason that we can run multiple pfinet translators? you mean can't? yeah is there any reason that we can't run multiple pfinet translators? Action: ajmitch shrugs save ourselves a lot of resources avoiding a subhurd whats the module for python2-disturils ? yes you can run multiples pfinets that's how neal did it it's built into python2 nite hmm jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201089.flinthills.com) left irc: [x]chat you don't need a subhurd thats what I thought Action: Isomer pondering why setup.py can't find it just set it on 2 different nodes note all jcater (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Client Exiting hrm sure distutils isn't part of python 2.2 it has been around since 1/5/2 er 1.5.2 hi ladies Action: Isomer ponders why my debian box doesn't have it then apt-get it dtm: waddup girl well, I have python2.0 installed and /usr/lib/python2.0/ is populated sleep time. Zzzzzz but I can't see any distutils ok I gotta get off oOo l8r girlies You and the trout? chillywilly: ok later bizitch chillywilly (danielb@d116.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error to chillywilly[d116.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net]: EOF from client see ya! jbailey (jbailey@65.93.255.49) left irc: Client Exiting heh everyone leaves... wusses :) i notice RMS is running for the board of directors for GNOME yes brb back damn, can't get hold of parents hmm python-distutils Action: Isomer ponders if that works with python2 --- Fri Nov 9 2001