[00:08] Last message repeated 1 time(s). Action: Isomer hacks reinhard (rm@62.47.44.7) joined #gnuenterprise. pointone (pointone@24-196-85-224.jvl.wi.charter.com) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). sacha_ (sacha@chime-a-94.conceptual.net.au) left irc: Ping timeout for sacha_[chime-a-94.conceptual.net.au] re dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error to dres[4.18.171.42]: EOF from client dres (dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.200) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.200) left irc: Ping timeout for ra3vat[195.239.64.200] ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.79) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (me@p54-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajmitch[p54-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz] ajmitch (me@p42-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.79) left irc: [x]chat nickr (nick@e-172-IP26.empnet.net) left irc: Ping timeout for nickr[e-172-IP26.empnet.net] nickr (nick@e-172-IP26.empnet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) left irc: Ping timeout for Mr_You[mankind.boredom.org] Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@e-172-IP26.empnet.net) left irc: Killed (NickServ (This nick is reserved by another user)) Maniac (darryl@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) left irc: Ping timeout for Maniac[h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net] dres (dres@4.18.171.42) got netsplit. ajmitch (me@p42-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout for ajmitch[p42-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz] ajmitch (me@p48-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) returned to #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.5) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.5) left irc: Ping timeout for ra3vat[195.239.66.5] reinhard (rm@62.47.44.7) left irc: Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est. -- Aurelius Augustinus ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.8) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ jbailey (jbailey@65.93.255.49) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@65.93.255.49) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). pwd ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.8) left irc: Ping timeout for ra3vat[195.239.66.8] ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.15) joined #gnuenterprise. gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) got netsplit. ajmitch (me@p48-max11.dun.ihug.co.nz) got netsplit. 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ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip165.albany.thebiz.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) returned to #gnuenterprise. jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. howdy how is everyone on this brisk (at least here) Friday morning (at least here) chillywilly (baumannd@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. boo you ppl are boooooooring why don't you do something with your lives? it's called a job and it stinks I got one of those too hello hi whatcha doin' at yo job jcater? ra3vat_ (ds@195.239.66.15) joined #gnuenterprise. goof off and eat donuts ra3vat_ (ds@195.239.66.15) left irc: Client Exiting tehe so it is a no-work friday there too? hmm reinhard (rm@62.47.44.7) joined #gnuenterprise. I shoulda been a cop goof off and eat donuts? that fits the profile hey reinhard jamest: hi, have you looked at my mails? i need some assistance don't eat yellow snow does that help? mmm... I want snowcream you ever eat snowcream ra3vat: i didn't get them i think my mail is screwed up wonder how many lists I'm really getting mail from now :( i need to run to class could you send a copy to jamest@math.ksu.edu i put this in cc yesterday and it was bounced :( er, i used jamest@gnue.org ra3vat: your mails arrived at the gnue-forms mailing list from what i can tell can report it later from home machine, messages are still available in gnue-forms archive repost hi reinhard anyone know if you can run Gnome apps on an iPAQ? chillywilly: not sure chillywilly: i have seen X running on an iPAQ iirc gnome developers don't care much about portability bbl Maniac (user1@anolas01-p157.mts.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.15) left irc: Client Exiting Maniac (user1@anolas01-p157.mts.net) left irc: Ping timeout for Maniac[anolas01-p157.mts.net] Maniac (user1@anolas01-p192.mts.net) joined #gnuenterprise. alex (alex@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: alex -> alexey Maniac (user1@anolas01-p192.mts.net) left irc: Ping timeout for Maniac[anolas01-p192.mts.net] alexey (alex@195.151.214.34) left irc: Client Exiting alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. bigbrother joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (baumannd@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) left irc: Killed (NickServ (This nick is reserved by another user)) rofl if it is i have like one other gauntlet to run on it and then i think we are able to release unless you all want me to give it more brutalization nickr (nick@e-172-IP26.empnet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. but honestly as fun as it is to torture you and jamest, its more fun releasing the stuff :) lol well, I tortured myself last night finding own bugs eh as I kept trying bizarre combinations of using the form yeah, novel idea, eh? masochist you are sick I know alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left #gnuenterprise (Client Exiting). argh!!!!!!!! reinhard (rm@62.47.44.7) left irc: Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est. -- Aurelius Augustinus madlocke (madlocke@dial19-37.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE) joined #gnuenterprise. greetings... madlocke: howdy how are you doing? ok again... jcater: you are workin' on gnuef too, right? yes, I am a special part or just where work is needed? heheh.. I'm jamest's partner in crime :) where-ever work is needed hehe... then i can come with my complaints to you too ;) Action: jamest blinks madlocke? is it really you? madlocke: yes. I'll take complaints as well hi jamest... yes this time i am writing from germany... Action: jamest does a happy dance was waiting for my phone company to give me better internet connection ... but think i have to wait more time :( forms 0.1.0 is coming out this weekend 0.3.0 (the next major release) is the UI rewrite release i saw already the new version number in cvs ;) so we would love to get our paws on your code :) i know we have copyright assignment from you yep you have... so I think it's just a matter of making sure your new stuff is a) sane (or at least saner than what we have) i want talk about few things before sending code... b) able to support all the leet new features i would call it ... erm ... evil ;) the talks or the code? the code... of course it supports already 3d views, a glove, and a support angel... ... erm... maybe not ;) :) so what you want to talk about? maybe it is a prob of my configuration here, but: when i try to use an account for zipcode.gfd and i use my normal account that also exists in postgres it works... for postgres i have no password defined... for gnuef i can write any password... it accepts everything... yes when logging in with another user, i.e. root, the account is not excepted... yes this is a postgresql issue erm.. gr.. not excepted... accepted ;) argl... bad... you have a pg_hba.conf file where you setup trust for clients bbs... lunch a what??? erm... think no Nick change: jcater -> jcLunch ok.. i see have to look more at postgres... another thing... host all 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 crypt in that file should make it accept crypted passwords from the 192.168.1 network ok thanks... another thing... otherwise the normal "trust" option just says if the user is in db and the process connecting is owned by that user then it's ok to let him in yes? when you write code in UIwxpython that is used by UIbase than i think it is a good idea to have the required things already in a base class i.e. UILoginHandler in a base class or as base class ... madlocke: aggreed IIRC i started a bunch of little crap in UIwxpython that would be moved to UIbase but stalled out ok... then can help you with this as soon as i have cvs write access... will send you web ui later this day when i am back on windoows... rock linux not configured correctly at the moment... hey! we can use windows testers too :) need some packages and connection too slow and to expensive for this gotcha gr.... i want one more monitor.. or some cables... have a monitor switch but no cables... :(( :( I'll be out part of the weekend think i will be able to solve this.. ;) out part? sorry don't understand so if it's after 5PM my time (now 11:40AM) I will be away from a computer until late saturday ah ok... i get to go play Farmer James for the inlaws as the wifes father just had surgery and they need extra hands to help with the cattle bad... is hard work i think... thankfully for them I know which end of the cow the food goes in grin :) of course, that's about all I know about them good start but I look forward to seeing your code we've got such plans for the new UI bwahahahaa to use it you will need Webware from sourceforge.net is there a list of ideas in a file somewhere? i don't think so i keep meaning to start one btw, can you remove the old dir from cvs? (inside gnuef... it is empty) ? dir called 'old' ;) i think it is removed do a cvs update -Pd to remove unneeded dirs erm... was checking out everything yesterday... (in a new dir) yip, it's not in my cvs updated today ok :) madlocke: how far along is the UI code btw i knew you had it pulling up forms but was all the widget support there it can display most things... the last i did was data exchange... some things work... buttons work... input lines... ... i try with trigger.gfd, helloworld2.gfd, zipcode.gfd another gfd that is important? that is a good start both zipcode examples would be important ok... states.gfd IIRC and the tourture test samples/track/forms/contact_manager.gfd which really pushes the backend a bit btw - all the samples in gnuef/samples should work in normal gnuef now bbiab ok... back did you scrape the event system? scrap i looked at some things and have some ideas... did not have a computer in russia... so was a bit difficult to work on it... have more time now... ah we've all been really busy a bit of funny trivia we were planning a 0.1.0 release arround November (of 2000!) so only a year behind :) hm... like ms ;) btw does anyone of you know anything of this mono project? derek has followed it a bit i think before i went to russia, i played a bit with soap... interesting... gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: Ping timeout for gnuebot[mail.libertydistribution.com] dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: Ping timeout for dneighbo[mail.libertydistribution.com] gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!s@ChanServ sevik (seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) left irc: Ping timeout for sevik[domino-web.kiev.ua] Nick change: jcLunch -> jcater sevik (seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. cu... will be back next week... madlocke (madlocke@dial19-37.RZ.FH-Augsburg.DE) left irc: [x]chat chillywilly (baumannd@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. booyah aah! Action: jcater runs away in a fright Action: chillywilly latches nto jcater and bites him in the neck hey now only my son can do that (and wife, under certain circumstances) hehe too bad your my bitch for today I ma a creature of the night I will drink your blood putty rocks my socks ooh you sicko sicko? look who's talking donut man do you want a donut? you know you do well, yeah I have doughnuts munchkins actually dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. which is a tradename for donut holes Action: dneighbo falls over its madlock e btw: mono is crap :) imho whyfor? um because its just a 'copy' of microsoft and with little gain let me explain IMHO .net is many things one of which is something called C# when you look at what C# does 98% of it is done in java or python already thats not a reason not to develope it thats like saying we already have email programs why make more? I meuan about c# so to me C# is nothing more than m$ trying to take java's market share and screw sun then you have the interoperbility of .net which says you write something that can be used by say vb, c, etc all using SOAP well ask me java / python support soap, corba, etc etc true ad nausem to do this I'm not satisfied with any object oriented C dialects I've used so once again its just M$ trying to CONTROL this the last part of .net i see is the 'passport' thing or 'hailstorm' thing that much seems clear, yes which i wont even comment on bad idea there is no authority anywhere but mono basically says they are doing the C# and SOAP thing which to me is a WASTE dotGNU on the other hand is doing a passport equiv now why i dont like passport equiv i think there is SOME value in trying to make an alterative so microshaft cant control the 'internet' so to speak dotgnu is doing it all dude theres already a hailstorm clone from what i have seen of mono it is basically a linux implementation of what microsoft is doing minus passport snowstorm or whatever postable.net is so they can be downward compatible with .NET portable.nety which to me is silly and a waste of time well but i wont go there :) mono could be useful but they will ot cooperate with dotgnu s/ot/not I think someone should make a good OO language chillywilly to me it only appears to give credibility to microsoft who once controlling hte domain all the power of C with twice the systems modelling with half the tedium will readily shut mono down via legistlature or other means well M$ does have come clout don't you think? we need to protect ourselves just right up front i can see them patenting most of .net and fscking ximian to all hell yep not to MENTION have you seen evolution that might happen btw it looks identical to outlook dotgnu ppl expect to get sued ny M$ now if Apple can sue all these guys for making 'aqua' themes and shut their asses down I think that was the idea s/ny/my er what do you think M$ can do to ximian about evolution? s/ny/by All my windows friends LOVE Evolution i mean aqua was just graphics evolution 2 outlook is down to look, feel, feature ximian tends to just copy M$ though im sure they have to have 'some patents' on some of that and if they dont they could readily get them for example the way they have the big icons on the left that is a windowapi thing called an application frame they were the first to do it well if they make legal moves against evolution it'll simply change and gave borland rights to it etc they patent that and bam sue ximian to remove it The presentation is the only thing they could get ximian on, and thats easy to change. nickr: yes easy to change but alienate users basically i will say m$ has done historically fairly well on UI design i dont think free software has i wont go naming apps :) True at least gui apps so it would be IMO a big blow to make them redo the evolution GUI I don't know I think it could be made different enough yet still very good ESPECIALLY if the patent violation mandated that evolution be stopped distributed dneighbo do you see dotgnu and GNUe working together as there has been lots of talk about middleware and forms ui on the dotgnu developers list....of course I mentioned GNUe when this was said until it was fixed it could be months dneighbo: have you tested my changes yet? chillywilly i dont care if they choose to work with us or not, im sure they wont for us i expect gcomm to encompass that dneighbo "they" are "us" Action: chillywilly is also on the steering committee of dotGNU :P chillywilly: you are now? i.e. if dotGNU has some prop call or procedure stuff gcomm interfaces cna be written to talk to it ajmitch well I am working on it\ its all about choice jcater: no dont have cvs access at work will have to check tongith dneighbo I just see a lot of areas where dotGNU could use GNUe tools as a base dunno what will happen though a small victory on the mac os front http://alldunn.com/wxPython/stuff/wxMacPython-Demo.jpg wxWindows on macOS X what do you guys think about RMS running for the Gnome Board? halleluah er, wxpython chillywilly: dunno, depends on his motivation jcater: i agree i think he would be good in sense of keeping them on toes but honestly he is so out of touch with gnome it oculd hurt I we need RMS there as his main focus would probably be on the smaller things think i.e. i think freedom is important above all else he's only going to play a political role but crap most of gnome is LGPL you know that so ximian can do what the hell they want with it as can red hat I trust redhat guh ximian I don't trust so his ability to do 'anything' on that front is limited other than get people mad at him i would much rather see alan cox on it well he can't force anything but he can use his influence as alan is pro GPL knows kernel space well and is a good 'engineer' and thusly would help them in many areas IMHO alan steped down though i know i said would RATHER see alan not we would see alan :) most gnomies dont care for RMS so i doubt he will be elected in that's not true seeing how ximian developers all have votes they probably have over 50 votes there are some ximian ppl who are also Free Software guys even and im pretty certain the majority seniment there would be to keep him out as he is 'bad for business' Michael Meeks being one of them chillywilly you misquote me most gnomies are FSF guys HOWEVER being a FSF guy != caring for RMS I didn't quote you my statement was most gnomies DONT CARE FOR RMS not most gnomies dont agree with free software for example mmeeks i did followup for RMS with him on gnome basic to iron out some details dneighbo you yourself has said Gnome needs a real "leader" who better than RMS? mike said basically tell him i agree to everythign but i refuse to do a webpage on GNU.org and if he cant deal with that to bad im sick of his inane requests chillywilly: I know you are going to flame me rms would not make a good gnome leader chillywilly: but I think RMS is a better "philosopher" that a "leader" he makes a good free software leader in sense that its very 'idealistic' and you can be eccentric and idealistic when peddling philosphy well RMS is a consulting philospher, imho and not a "leader" yeah, what derel said :) derek, even HOWEVER to peddle a desktop to the masses and corporate america you need a much different animal i think the leader for gnome needs to be two things or they need two leaders 1. big balls 2. lots o patience (sorry) one needs a strong vision of where going and how to conquer enterprises (why i dont like him a shining example of this personality is Michael Dell) jcater btw that equates to your #1 (big balls) and the other quality is someone to clean house in the state of engineering, to make dependencies and architectures soudn and sold and enforce good habits (good examples of this are linus and alan with the kernel) i still see no reason why rms input should not be felt as the Gnome Board has nothing to do with hacking it is totally political and PR related jcater btw: this relates to your #2 which is lots o patience :) lol