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<Mr_You> watchin O Brother Where Art Thou again
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII aaaaaaaaaaam theeeeee maaaaaaaaaaaaan oooooooooof cooooooooooonstaaaaaaaant sooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrroooooooooow
<Mr_You> heh
<Mr_You> yeah he just did that
<chillywilly> "it's the soggy bottom boys"
<nickr> ew
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<nickr> O Brother Where Art Thou is funny funky
<chillywilly> hey it said in sme tabloid that looking at boobs is good for your health according to the new england journal of medicine
<nickr> cool
<chillywilly> it increases blood flow and gives you a good cardiovascular workout
<chillywilly> :P
<Mr_You> http://www.paul.boddie.net/
<nickr> it releases endorphins that increase the efficiency of your immune system
<chillywilly> so next time your gf gets mad at you going to the nudie bar just say, "don't you care about my health"
<chillywilly> does XForms have any limitations?
<chillywilly> they are talking about the W3C standard right?
<chillywilly> yep they are
<chillywilly> I wodner if GNUe would benefit form using that standard
<Mr_You> It would replace our Forms client methods?
<Mr_You> probably wouldn't be hard to integrate X-Forms clients at somepoint, or redo GNUe Forms to use X-Forms methods instead
<chillywilly> yes, but I dunno if they would do it though
<chillywilly> :P
<Mr_You> BTW, I mainly do CGI perl coding.. so python should be cool
<Mr_You> X-Forms might be limiting for what we need, dunno
<chillywilly> well neither do I
<Mr_You> I like this "O Death" song tho its used in a KKK ralley in the movie heh
<Mr_You> first heard it from this "Beethoven" band... ferget their name
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<Mr_You> mornin
<ajmitch> evening
<Mr_You> ahh
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<Mr_You> night
Action: Mr_You &
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<jamest> howdy
[08:26] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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<jcater> yay
<jamest> :)
<jamest> so, what's up w/ release?
<jcater> I'm ready
<jamest> derek test all his forms?
<jcater> I dunno
<jcater> he wasn't on much
<jamest> ah
<jamest> ok
<jamest> you play with the mcmillan stuff at all?
<jcater> no
<jcater> I fixed a few oddities in GFClient, though
<jcater> and did my comprehensive README.databases
<jcater> (which I'd appreciate if someone looked over)
<jcater> I can do the mcmillan stuff today I'm sure
<jamest> where is it?
<jcater> gnue-common/README.databases
<jamest> ok, just saw it
<jcater> I did tars and zip files yesterday
<jamest> was looking in the doc dircs
<jcater> just to make sure setup.py sdist was working
<jcater> (had to make some minor adjustments to get that working again)
<jamest> sigh
<jcater> sigh?
<jamest> that sdist broke
<jamest> did you rebuild the html txt docs
<jcater> no
<jcater> just testing basic functions
<jamest> gotcha
<jcater> btw, I broke sdist, not you :)
<jamest> did the db2 driver from bryan lee get updated
<jamest> IOW is this the driver from the ibm guy
<jamest> that was for old system or is it a new one
<jcater> Bryan Lee is the dude that wrote the db2.py driver
<jcater> I rewrote a good chunk of it
<jamest> ah, gotcha
<jamest> these are not the authors of our support but of the driver itself
Action: jamest isn't too swift today
<jcater> yes
<jcater> I thought I should include that to better distinguish the drivers they need to download
<jcater> maybe I wasn't clear
<jcater> btw, you'll have to show me all you do for a release so I can be better help later on
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<jamest> ok,
<jamest> have all these drivers been tested?
<jcater> no, not all
<jamest> we may want to add that info to the readme as well
<jamest> annother plane went down?
<jcater> yes
<jcater> heading towards JFK
<jamest> accident or intentional?
<jcater> I dunno
<jcater> cnn.com is down
<jcater> but the airports in NY are closed
<jcater> NEW YORK (AP) - A plane crashed Monday morning in the Queens section of New York, and buildings reportedly were on fire in the neighborhood. 
<jamest> cnn has next to nothing on it
<jamest> 3 sentences
<jcater> I think that's cause no one knows anything yet
<jcater> The Dow index dropped 200 points on hearing the news. 
<jamest> lol
<jamest> paniced, the hurd thunders headlong off a cliff
<jcater> :)
<jcater> are you adding a blurb to the README about database tests, or should I?
<jcater> I have time, btw
<jamest> the only ones I know that work are the postgresql ones
<jamest> so if you know the others then go ahead
<jamest> I have to head across campus for a bit anyway
<jcater> ok
<jamest> bbiab
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<jamest> back
<jcater> hey
<jcater> I'm adding a Platforms Tested: section for each
<jcater> is that overkill?
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<jamest> nope
<jamest> i think it's a good idea
<jcater> good
<jcater> I'm almost done
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<jcater> jamest: have you tested the pg drivers other than pygresql and pypgsql?
<jamest> i believe I did at home
<jamest> that was quite a while ago though
<jamest> 99.9% sure i did
<jcater> what version if debian potato? 2.2?
<jamest> testing
<jamest> er, woody
<jamest> we also need to point out that python 2.x required
<jamest> i may have added this last week 
<jamest> damn memory
<jamest> it's faulty
<jamest> un friggen believable
<jamest> the main login dialog on some of my win98 machines have a box that is , i assume autochecked for "save password"
<jamest> looks like I missed unchecking it last friday
<jamest> so when I booted the machine up all I had to do was put in my username as the password box was already filled
<jcater> :)
<jamest> man this is so wrong in so many ways it's not even funny
<jcater> btw, psycopg has "Copyright 2001 Free Software Foundation"
<jcater> are the a gnu project?
<jamest> sign me up for .NET as MS sure knows security
<jcater> or did they forget to change the GPL template?
<jcater> yeah, tell me about if
<jcater> it
<jamest> dunno
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> there's a lot of research in that little file
<jcater> I hope ppl find it useful
<jamest> i'm sure people will
<jamest> however, there's a lot more time in the code
<jamest>  hope ppl find THAT useful :)
<jcater> lol
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<jamest> h
<jamest> hi
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<nickr> hola
<jamest> hi
<nickr> como esta?
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<ghunt> hi all
<jamest> hi
<jcater> howdy
<ghunt> fine, how's the project ?
<jamest> pretty good
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<derek> ToyMan: what is it like in NY this AM?
<ToyMan> not much to report on the crash...
<ToyMan> i'm upstate
<ToyMan> 3 deg C and overcast otherwise...;)
<jcater> brrr
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<jamest> ToyMan: no swimming today eh?
<neilt> #join gnue
<ToyMan> not today.:)
<ToyMan> i did go swimming in the Hudson about 2 weeks ago
<ToyMan> COLD water
<ToyMan> but good..
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<derek> momma, no thnaks too cold for me
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<jamest> ROCK!
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<derek> rock/
<chillywilly> boo
<jamest> both gfclient and gfdesigner can be packaged 
<jamest> via mcmillan installer
<chillywilly> hey guys
<chillywilly> what do you think of XForms W3C standard
<chillywilly> ?
<chillywilly> is it feature filled enough for gfd format?
<jamest> and they work
<jamest> which means we're one step closer to setup.exe on windows machiens
<chillywilly> anyone hear me?
<jamest> chillywilly: it may be over filled
<chillywilly> am I fscking invisible!?!
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> over filled
<chillywilly> ?
<chillywilly> too much jelly in the donut?
<chillywilly> ;P
<neilt-lunch> hey cw, how are you
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> how are you?
<jamest> too much complexity for our target application
<chillywilly> it is not that complex
<chillywilly> imho
<neilt-lunch> good, but busy
<chillywilly> it is a "better" html forms
<chillywilly> just provides like a data model
<chillywilly> separates ui from data
<chillywilly> all xml
<derek> xforms, we have looked at this
<derek> it looks similar to gnue
<chillywilly> you have?
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> well it is a standard
<derek> it didnt really exist when we started
<chillywilly> so I figured it would bbe nice to adopt a standard
<derek> and BTW its FAR from a standard
<chillywilly> instead of creating your own thing
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<derek> its standard in sense its submitted to a 'standards body'
<derek> its not standard in the sense no one is using it
<derek> i would be more like to try to adopt mozilla's XUL 
<derek> than w3c's xforms
<chillywilly> mozilla is implemtneing XForms
<derek> chillywilly: hmmmmmmm
<chillywilly> hmmm I thought you guys didn't care for XUL?
<derek> we can certainly look at it
<derek> chillywilly: i like xul
<chillywilly> ok
<derek> i dont think it fits with what we are doing 
<derek> it had 'issues'
<derek> but i like it :)
<derek> with me its not 'cut and dry'
<chillywilly> it never is with you :P
<chillywilly> then you couldn't torture the coders as much
<derek> its not either 'i hate it. it sucks' or 'i can like something, but not think its the right something' :)
<derek> must run
<derek> bye bye
<derek> bbl
<chillywilly> bye
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<ov> Hi folks
<reinhard> hey ov
<jcater> howdy
<reinhard> i guess you are oliver vecernik?
<ov> Zunächst einmal Grüße an Reinhard aus Hernstein! Ja, ich bin es.
<reinhard> Hernstein?
<ov> Hernstein liegt südlich von Baden bei Wien.
<reinhard> ah
<ov> But lets continue in English.
<reinhard> yep :)
<ov> As I wrote in my mail and applying your help everthing seems to work fine.
<Mr_You> heh, the leaked internal M$ memo is funny
<Mr_You> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/22770.html
<reinhard> ov: error message is gone?
<ov> But... I changed a class in test.gcd. I don't understand how to init this.
<reinhard> init == default values for fields in a class
<reinhard> or init == load new definition for the class?
<ov> reinhard: no more error messages.
<reinhard> k
<reinhard> good :)
<ov> first of all I'd like to load new definition for a class (update tables).
<reinhard> that is done every time you restart geas-server
<ov> ah
<reinhard> in geas.conf there is a line like
<reinhard> # mainlog geas.log
<reinhard> when you uncomment this line you get a log of all db changes
<ov> ok, next question: where can I find a howto for gcd-files? 
<reinhard> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/GNUeModuleGuide/main/x369.html
<reinhard> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/sc.html contains some pointers to good documentation
<reinhard> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/docs/ is a more "official" address :)
<ov> yep, after restarting geas, I found my new table. Somewhere in the docs I read, that methods are not yet implemented. Still?
<reinhard> to be 100% honest
<reinhard> methods are already implemented
<reinhard> but in a way we are not happy with
<reinhard> and we want to redo the implementation
<reinhard> so we don't tell you :)
<ov> Grrrr... ;-)
<jamest> :)
<ov> as I found on the web GEAS, Forms is Alpha stage. A fundamental question:: is there a release plan?
<reinhard> yes of course
<reinhard> for example forms 0.1.0 is planned for october 2000
<reinhard> umm.....
<reinhard> seriously
<reinhard> forms and reports seems usable
<reinhard> in the state they are now
<reinhard> GEAS was contributed by a company and we are now in the process
<reinhard> of going through the code and adapting it to our needs
<reinhard> wrt maintainability, performance etc.
<ov> my question was aiming at the release plan, because I consider
<ov> doing some real work with it, but I'm not sure
<ov> to do so.
<ov> What would you recommend?
<jamest> run
<jamest> and don't look back
<ov> seriously?
<reinhard> i would say
<reinhard> with forms/reports yes
<reinhard> with geas: not yet
<jamest> sorry
<jamest> back
<jamest> forms works
<jamest> reports is starting to work
<jamest> geas works but IIRC is slow
<ov> realisation should take place Q2 next year. what do you think about?
<jamest> the forms/geas driver is broken
<ov> okay, 2 tier is my friend. ;-)
<jamest> then forms will work for you
<jamest> we're ready to release a 0.1.0 hopefully today
<jamest> hammering out the details on a setup.exe install for windows clients
<reinhard> ov: may i ask what kind of company you work for?
<ov> I've my own one!
<reinhard> cool
<reinhard> web page?
<ov> have a look at http://members.aon.at/vecernik
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<ov> I'm dealing in barcode readers, thermal printers and mobile data equipment
<ov> very important is curses support with forms (for my terminals)
<ov> does it work now (I read somewhere it was broken)?
<jamest> it is still broken
<jamest> however
<jamest> the 0.1.0 release paves the way for 0.3.0 to start
<ov> :-(
<jamest> which is the UI rewrite release
<jamest> so I'd expect it functional soon
<ov> :-)
<jamest> on the list of todos for forms
<jamest> 0.1.x - fix current driver issues as found (this includes the geas one)
<jamest> 0.3.0 - UI rewrite to support curses, web, enhanced UI features, better integration with designer
<ov> is there a possibility to write businessobjects for 2 tier and
<ov> port them to geas sometimes?
<jamest> depends
<jamest> we're going to try and share trigger/method system
<jamest> if it works then I think you could at least share the methods
<jamest> the object definition isn't possible now
<chillywilly> I think we also need to share the object system
<chillywilly> and the objects need to be data aware
<chillywilly> would make forms a little fatter but then forms could play with objects too and they can execute on the client side
<chillywilly> or you can go with GEAS
<chillywilly> or some configuration like that
<chillywilly> actually you shouldn't even have to know that the objects are remote objects or not
<chillywilly> imho
<chillywilly> just use the GComm object and if it is remote it will take care of loading the ORB and or SOAP or whatever
<ov> I don't know what the GComm object is, but the idea is great! Possible?
<chillywilly> it is just or name for common
<chillywilly> GNUe Common package
<reinhard> bbl
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<jamest> ok
<jamest> quesiont
<ajmitch> k
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<jcater> jamest: the question?
<Isomer_> about life universe and everything?
<rm-away> lol
Nick change: rm-away -> reinhard
<reinhard> wasn't the answer
<reinhard> 21?
<jcater> jamest: the answer is, "No"
<jamest> argh!
<jamest> ok
<jamest> sorry
<jamest> back
<jamest> we can now have a setup.exe for forms and designer
<jamest> however
<jamest> we should probably come up with a default install behaviour for gnue tools on windows machines
<jamest> fwiw: gnuef is weighing in at about 4.5MB w/ no other install requirements
<reinhard> we should be compatible with other windows installed programs
<jamest> most of which I'm certain is wxPython
<reinhard> so we should install 80% of the files under WINDOWS/SYSTEM
<jamest> rofl
<jamest> I'll adjust the install scripts immediately
<reinhard> 5% under PROGRAM FILES/GNUE SHARED/GNUE COMMON
<jamest> I guess what I'm asking is what do we want
<ajmitch> reinhard: fill up C:\ as well (even if installing on D:)
<jamest> gee, this is all great input 
<jcater> jamest: what d'ya mean?
<jcater> the target directory?
<jcater> I'm not sure what you're asking
<jamest> right now gnuef goes in (default) c:\program files\GNUe Forms Client
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<jamest> and it has an {app}/etc/*.conf
<jamest> and it has an {app}/shared/images/*.png
<jamest> in there
<jamest> designer would work similar
<jamest> I was wondering if we wanted to do something like
<jamest> C:\program files\gnue\gnue forms client
<jamest> C:\program files\gnue\designer
<jamest> C:\program files\gnue\etc
<jamest> C:\program files\gnue\shared
<jamest> etc, etc
<jcater> I vote for the latter
<reinhard> metoo
<Isomer_> doesn't MS have some guide lines for this kinda thing?
Nick change: Isomer_ -> Isomer
<jamest> as do i
<jamest> however, we still have issues
<reinhard> i would even say
<reinhard> s/gnue forms client/forms
<reinhard> so the path is
<reinhard> c:\program files\gnue\forms
<jamest> ok
<jamest> standing issues then
<jamest>   which package contains gnue.conf
<jamest> :)
<reinhard> common?
<reinhard> is that a package of itself?
<jcater> an alternative installation scheme would be to have two installation .exes, a "GNUe Client Environment" and a "GNUe Development Environment" in which GNUe Client would only contain like gfclient (and grrun when available), whereas the Development environment has all the .exe's
<jcater> I'm not saying I'm pushing that
<jcater> but something to consider
<jcater> then you don't have conflicting gnue.conf's
<jcater> 'course, the only problem there is what happens if stuff isn't released concurrently
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> we need a setup mgr app
<jamest> that can run and update all this crap for us
<jcater> (btw, if we stick w/Designer install and Forms install, I'd vote for the conf stuff to go into gfclient
<jcater> )
<jcater> as it's the least common denominator
<jcater> jamest: we're not helping much, are we?
<jamest> ok
<jamest> now I've got gnuef in gnue\forms
<jamest> and a gnue/shared and gnue/etc
<jamest> however
<jamest> I need a method of setting the INSTALL_PREFIX and GNUE_CONNECTIONS
<jamest> unless we make the clients look in some thing like exedir/../etc
<jamest> as I don't seem to have a way to tell the installer to alter autoexec.bat
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> can the setup program run a script or executable as part of the install?
<Isomer> you shouldn't be setting environmental variables for the windows install
<jamest> jcater: yes
<jamest> Isomer: it should go in the registry 
<Isomer> precisely
<jamest> but we don't support that :(
<jcater> jamest: please don't say that
<Isomer> when in rome....
<jcater> I want to be able to do a samba install 
<jamest> jcater: I mean a single entry for gnue pointer
<jamest> jcater: yes, that is other bad things
<jcater> jamest:??
<jamest> as it sets we _should_ be able to network install this puppy
<jamest> registry hacks make than tougher
<jcater> that's why I don't want to see a registry hack :)
<jamest> I think I'd be happy if the client apps (gnuef, designer, reports) looked in their executable is located in
<jamest> .....in the dir their .....
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> I'd be fine with that if
<Isomer> how does hacking autoexec.bat help network installs?
<jamest> from there go ../etc/gnue.conf
<jamest> i doesn't
<jamest> it
<jamest> this is my problem
<jamest> everything is ugly
<Isomer> it's microsoft, what do you expect? :)
<jcater> I'd be fine with that if later on we added an include = line to the config files
<jcater> (read that LATER ON part :)
<jcater> jamest: at least for 0.1.0, I don't think we can do better than looking in the exec dir/../etc
<jcater> that's my vote
<jamest> jcater: any chance I could con you into adding it 
<jamest> as I leave in about 45 min
<jamest> and want to get this installer functional
<jamest> or I can checkin what we have
<jamest> and you can play w/ it while I add it
Action: jamest is getting antsy
<jamest> :)
<jamest> nevermind
<jamest> I'll do it real quick
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<stbain> greetings all
<jamest> hello
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<stbain> I've been reading the mailing list
<stbain> seems to be a little progress
<stbain> some usable implementations and whatnot
<jamest> um
<jamest> yip
<jamest> :)
<stbain> I think I still have the GNU forms somewhere
<stbain> I'll sign them and get them in the mail tomorrow
<jamest> I'd pitch the old ones
<jamest> oh, those forms
<stbain> ?!
<jamest> ok
<stbain> hehe
<stbain> yes... those forms
<jamest> we can use the help
<Mr_You> should I upgrade to python v2?  seems woody uses 1.5.2
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<jamest> woody has python2 deb
<jamest> and forms will not work with python 1.5.2 anymore
<Mr_You> ok
<stbain> any zope integration by chance?
<jamest> not that I'm aware of
<Mr_You> webware probably
<ajmitch> yay
<ajmitch> webware is cool :)
Action: Mr_You is trying to get his hands on the webware+GNUe code that madlocke has written
<ajmitch> ah, i see
<ajmitch> madlocke been unavailable for awhile?
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<Mr_You> yeah.. supposedly he popped in Friday, and should see and hopefully get the code thsi week
<stbain> webware?
<stbain> enlighten me
<ajmitch> stbain: webware.sf.net
<Mr_You> webware.sf.net ... aims to "replace" zope.. has goals from lessons learned from zope.. AFAIK
<ajmitch> it is quite good, from what i've seen
<Mr_You> python server pages are part of the webware project if I understand correctly
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> similar syntax to JSP, it says
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<ajmitch> i dunno JSP, but PSP seems pretty useful
<Mr_You> I've just used php
<stbain> hrmmm
<Mr_You> and perl cgi
<stbain> so Zope vs. Webware?
<Mr_You> well.. if you want.. but most people just choose whatever works for them
<stbain> no... I meant does anyone know the pros and cons of webware vs. zope?
<Mr_You> webware is still beta, and early in the big scheme of things
<Mr_You> I think they are listed lessons they have learned and goals of webware on the site
<Maniac> zope is too complicated webware fits the brain :)
<Maniac> there maybe a doc on the webware site somewhere that gives pros vs zope
<Maniac> zope is complicated to get up and running with
<jcater> zope is very powerful though
<jcater> we use it inhouse
<Mr_You> it was a nice surprise to here someone has a somewhat working webware+GNUe code
<jcater> ('course, at the time, I didn't know about webware)
<stbain> zope is complicated to get up and running with?
<stbain> I found it quite simple to download and install
<jcater> I had no problem
<stbain> dtml is a snap
<jcater> I was generating reports from my Oracle database with dtml in no time at all
<Mr_You> I found a doc on workflow written by a python coder.. posted it last night.. www.paul.boddie.net
<jcater> (btw I'm not pushing zope over webware; but, I say use the right tool for the right job, whichever that may be)
<Mr_You> exactly
<stbain> ahhh
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<stbain> I just found this: "Zope was the only semi-mature framework I encountered, but it failed me in several areas. I worked with it daily for three weeks before deciding that I couldn't justify enduring its problems. These included..."
<stbain> goes on to explain why Zope wasn't the right answer for him
<derek> stbain: are you quoting me?
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<stbain> derek: actually, those are Chuck Esterbrook's words
<stbain> creator of the webware project
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<stbain> whoa
<stbain> <stbain> derek: actually, those are Chuck Esterbrook's words
<stbain> <stbain> creator of the webware project
<Mr_You> everyone is split
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<Mr_You> looks pretty major as many networks seem affected currently
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<stbain> welcome back
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<stbain> something tells me that the downloads page hasn't been updated recently and I should get the newest code from CVS
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<Maniac> netspit mania latley
<Maniac> derek: aren't you the webware fan?
<Mr_You> something is wrong with the gdm deb in woody distro
<Mr_You> damn, my bro has been admited to the hospital.. uggh.. he started out having mono... guess its still mono
<derek> um i havent used webware but im a fan of it already in comparision to python :)
<chillywilly> you python whore
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<derek> where oh where did little johnny go?
<derek> btw: simcity 3000 for linux kicks arse, but im too old to stay up all night playing video games
<ajmitch_> hehe
Nick change: ajmitch_ -> ajmitch
Action: ajmitch shoudl get back to python stuff
<chillywilly> derek: you're never too old for that
<Mr_You> I disagree.. old men should be up all night coding ;-)
<chillywilly> haha
<reinhard> nite all
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<derek> Mr_You: definitely good point
<derek> whats funny is 5 years ago i would have gotten yelled for being up all night
<derek> now being up isnt a big deal (its expected) and as long as i do what im supposed to next day im ok
<derek> i got in trouble for being NON PRODUCTIVE and staying up
<derek> let me paraphrase
<derek> five years ago:
<derek> 'i cant believe you stayed up all night.  how irresponsible'
<derek> now:
<derek> 'you stayed up all night, get any work done?'
<derek> me: no
<derek> 'that was stupid, pretty irresponsible'
<Mr_You> new version of mailman is out
<derek> and i wonder where i get the 'who told you that you could stop coding from' :)
<derek> Mr_You: sweet
<Mr_You> I have a new idea for a band/label.. gonna be sonicalchemy.org ;-)
<chillywilly> nice name
<Mr_You> focus will be non-profit company with a philosophy on providing donations to many orgs from the income it brings.. also will focus on featuring individuals with good musicianship, improvisation, and creativity..  not solo acts, but bands, or sitins from musicians for super-group type situation
<jcater> I have a new country song...
<Mr_You> FSF is one org I'm considering ;-)
<jcater> "Up all night coding now my wife's pissed"
<Mr_You> Environmental, Spirituality, Peace, Learning, Science, Health & Technology
<Mr_You> jcater: hehe
<chillywilly> jcater: lol
<Mr_You> chilly: thanks, I like it too.. "stole" it from this latest Pink Floyd mercial that has been on about the greatest hits or somethin
<chillywilly> brb
<chillywilly> ;)
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<derek> jcater: roflmao
<derek> where is jamest?
<jcater> had to run
<derek> *************************
<derek> jamest action items
<derek> -- look into russian email list for dmitry
<derek> -- give me password for gnu.org mailing list (or approve the folks out there waiting approval)
<derek> ********************
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<ajmitch> hi chillywilly ;)
<chillywilly> hi
Action: chillywilly is gonna play mario cart now
<chillywilly> with zsnes
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> zsnes.sourceforge.net
<nickr> didn't I ask you guys to remind me never to ask on #debian questions?
<ajmitch> nickr: what happened?
<nickr> its just a worthless waste of time
<ajmitch> chillywilly: hehe, i been playing with dgen-sdl (sega megadrive emulator)
<nickr> because its all newbies arguing about stupid things
<nickr> anyone here know anything about INN?
<ajmitch> nope
<ajmitch> this a a GNUe channel, ask debian questions in #debian ;)
<chillywilly> nickr: #debian is useless plz NEVER ask any questions  :P
<nickr> organicly grown software is so confusing
Action: ajmitch hears nickr scream in frustration
<nickr> chillywilly: thanks
<nickr> ajmitch: hehe
<chillywilly> organicly?
<Mr_You> what about inn?
<ajmitch> chillywilly: hacked :)
<nickr> Mr_You: I'm trying to setup a local news gorup heirarchy
<nickr> chillywilly: like sendmail and INN, big frankenstein monsters
<Mr_You> rtfm? ;-)
<nickr> the fine manuals that it comes with are no help
<Isomer> heh
<Mr_You> http://www.isc.org/products/INN/
<Mr_You> its been so long since I ran inn.. hmm 6+ years
<Mr_You> we had the worse news server ever.. big full height 9GB HD on a P100
<Mr_You> it just grinded all day and night
<Mr_You> semi-full newsfeed
<nickr> It shouldn't be this hard to setup an exclusively local news system
<Mr_You> hehe.. thats debatable ;-)
<nickr> No it isn't!
<Mr_You> there are other solutions.. not sure which... dnews I know
<nickr> It should be 'these are the gorups I want and how long they live and who can post to them'
<Mr_You> nickr: with inn it is ;-)
<nickr> I tried cnews, its way more crusty
<Isomer> you should try bnews :)
<Isomer> back when it was written in shell scripts :)
<nickr> I want *less* crusty, not more crusty :)
<Mr_You> wish I could help, yeah it should't be too hard, inn is just a cluster of weirdness.. use to be anyways..
<nickr> hmm
<nickr> well the weird thing is that the nnewsgroups I added show up in the list, I just can't read or post to them
<nickr> tin reports 'Newsgroup does not exist on this server'
<Mr_You> I think you have to set options (maybe another file) that states what is allowed
<nickr> I was actually slightly afraid of that
<nickr> because the file I believe you're referring to is freaky
<jcater> anyone at a windows machine????
<ajmitch> jcater: sure, gnome looks like windows here ;)
<jcater> crap... nevermind
<Mr_You> (only if it involves GNUe and Windows) ;-)))
Action: Isomer finds it mildly entertaining that noones at a windows machine
<Isomer> I've got a VNC to one
<Isomer> is that enough?
<Mr_You> no, I have access.. but will only admit it in a certain context ;-)
<ajmitch> Isomer: this is a GNU channel, most ppl use GNU/linux i guess (apart from the rare GNU/Hurd users)
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I'm sitting at one now
<ajmitch> jcater: my condolences
<ajmitch> trying to get the installer sorted?
<jcater> yes
<stbain> jcater: I'm on a Win2K Laptop from work
Action: Mr_You pulls a Bill Gates and quickly removes the jcaters seat resulting in a fall similar to a Windows app crashing..
<Mr_You> what installer?
<jcater> inno
<Mr_You> what is that?
<Mr_You> anyone tried the evolution RC1?
<derek> hmm once a fellow i know tried to lube a pineapple and put up his arse, i hear that evolution RC1 gives you same effect with half the mess....
<derek> yes im j/k
<Mr_You> geez hehe
<Mr_You> I'm looking forward to a M$ Outlook solution for linux.. evolution or mozilla
<Mr_You> or the other few
<Mr_You> aethena I think
<Isomer> mutt?
<derek> wait you might be confusing things
<derek> you looking for 'outlook' solution or 'exchange' solution?
<Mr_You> evolution enables outlook like features without exchange
<Mr_You> which hardly anyone seems to use anyways hehe
<Mr_You> but could be useful
<derek> um i disagree
<derek> evolution isnt even 5% as powerful as exchange services
<Mr_You> IIRC, evolution uses p2p technology to send scheduled events
<derek> and disagree that no one uses the exchange services
<derek> the county LIVES off outlook calendaring (shared calendars)
<Mr_You> this p2p is probably just via STMP and IMAP and interpreting the email as a calendar event
<derek> as well as a few other features
<Mr_You> yeah.. thats what I want to use and seems evolution has accomplished that.. last I checked year ago or so I guess
<derek> exchange is CRAP for a mail server, but some of its groupware services are decent (just poorly implemented at times)
<stbain> outlook like features
<derek> Mr_You: its not on par with exchange services
<Mr_You> what other features besides calendar does exchange do? my groups never used them
<derek> they might say they have 'implemented' shared calendars but im not seeing it on level of exchange
<derek> first off i dont think you can have true shared calendars in p2p mode and be effective
<derek> it works for small numbers with dedicated connections, but after that the updated of the nodes will be delayed and scheduling cant have that
<stbain> It supports peer-to-peer calendaring with users on products that support iCalendar, 
<stbain> evolution, that is
<derek> also the key feature used at county by high level officials is 'delegation'
<derek> i.e. you can delegate some to read / respond to your email as well as calendars
<Mr_You> imap should do that
<derek> btw: i think that we (GNUe) will start looking into groupware services
<derek> so that you could use your GEAS logic in such things
<derek> but thats another discussion
<Mr_You> like what kind of application for example?
<derek> btw: last time i was with the ximian folks, their secretaries (nat and miguels)
<derek> used outlook on windows
<derek> because evolution couldnt handle delegation at all
<derek> and it was too hard to 'train' her to use linux outside of that
<derek> and most of the 'investors' used windows
<derek> jade and i gave her some SERIOUS SERIOUS SERIOUS crap
<Mr_You> I think its possible
<derek> since they had to use our bandwidth for a week :)
<derek> we did get like 10 shirts, 5 monkeys, free dinner and some roller coaster rides out of it though :)
<Mr_You> not p2p in the sense of another protocol but p2p using smtp/imap
<Mr_You> ie. email apps "messages" will be sent via email and auto parsed and interpreted and deleted.
<Mr_You> I think thats how iCalendar works but I dunno
<Mr_You> delegation could be done by sending the encrypted imap password to allow switching of identities and/or reading others imap folders
<Mr_You> you have an example of a GNUe groupware app?  most orgs seem fine with email/mailing list or newsgroups.. to which any web or desktop interface could provide access too..
<Mr_You> tie everything into LDAP
<stbain> don't forget workflow, document storage, community calendaring, etc
<jcater> sigh!! well, installed new software on my Win98 station, therefore I must reboot...
<Mr_You> community calendaring is groupware, but I dunno about document management and workflow.. maybe I'm wrong.. I think of groupware as communication methods
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<Mr_You> definitely GNUe could be useful for community calendaring, workflow, and document management..and many other ERP-type apps
<Mr_You> I'm even thinking about Content Management System for webcontent from GNUe, but I don't consider that groupware
<ajmitch> CMS sounds sorta like what chillywilly is gonna do :)
<Mr_You> in the end tho, I guess it would be cool to have everything authenticate through GEAS 
<Mr_You> he must be keeping it a secret then ;-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> what comes under the topic of CMS?
<Mr_You> really webware could be "everything web" for GNUe..
<ajmitch> yes
<derek> Mr_You: yes 
<Mr_You> that way you could (hopefully) tie in any webware module into GNUe
<ajmitch> i (and chillywilly) are going to write a phpnuke-like forum using webware
<stbain> given the python-centric nature of GNUe, it seems like cmf.zope.org would fit right in
<derek> i see groupware of gnue integrating nicely into GNUe Workflow and Document Management
<derek> as well as offering shared calendars, contacts etc
<ajmitch> what about phpGroupware?
<derek> ajmitch: no comment
<Mr_You> ajmitch: "should" only require porting one to webware I guess
<ajmitch> wasn't something happening with that & GNUe?
<derek> other than i refuse to use a phpMiddleWare with GNUe
<ajmitch> ah, ok
<ajmitch> using webware stuff seems quite useful tho
<derek> subsitute i with we as the gnue core team isnt into using phpmiddleware and authentication services :)
<ajmitch> :)
<stbain> we're already running everything off of python objects, right?
<Mr_You> ok, I'm gonna be a little upset if I wasted all this time on this debian mirror.. considering its almost 60GBs now
<ajmitch> Mr_You: wow
<Mr_You> I should have just hacked at the broken scripts
<Mr_You> ajmitch: thats without source, just debs of US-debian
<Mr_You> tweaking my rsync exclude again
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<ajmitch> so what are you looking at doing with webware & GNUe? planning to talk to the webware ppl?
<derek> um
<Mr_You> madlocke already has code working or something
Action: ajmitch is curious about what toys he can play with ;)
<derek> looking to use webware for UI driver for UIhtml.py
<ajmitch> ok
<derek> that madlocke is working on
<derek> forms is designed to abstract UI like it to abstract databases
<derek> i.e. you simply provide a UI driver
<derek> now the killer thing is if you use something python based you can use all underlying objects
<ajmitch> yep
<derek> and just reimplement UIdriver.py
<derek> i believe madlocke has UIhtml.py and some updates to the objects
<derek> that would give us basic functionality for a web version of forms
<ajmitch> but madlocke has been AWOL for a little while?
<Mr_You> he's back
<derek> our agents have tracked him down
<Mr_You> hehe
<ajmitch> ah ok
<derek> only a matter of time before we can extract the code ;)
Action: Mr_You suddenly hears in the distance "I'll never tell..."
<ajmitch> you've smuggled him back to the GNUe compound for interrogation?
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<jamest> is cvs down?
<ajmitch> afternoon jamest
Action: ajmitch tries a cvs up
<Mr_You> worked for me a little while ago
<ajmitch> anoncvs works for me
<derek> problems with a gnu machine, i cant believe that :)
<ajmitch> probably a problem at jamest's end
<jcater> jamest: ah, you'rer back
<derek> probably a lsh problem
<jamest> derek: can you cvs update via your ssh 
<jamest> key
<derek> i.e. pserver always works 
<derek> its a SECURE connection that is down most of hte time
<derek> jamest: i still pserver
<derek> for the gnue box
<derek> er gnu
<ajmitch> i see
<jcater> jamest: up for me
<derek> mainly cause it took a year for me to get an account that worked for ssh :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> i can't update cvs from here
Action: ajmitch guesses he couldn't use ssh for cvs ;)
<jamest> yip
<jamest> it no longer accepts my key
<ajmitch> damn
<jamest> as since I don't have a password on pserver anymore I'm locked out
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> upgraded ssh lately?
<jamest> no
<chillywilly> ack
<ajmitch> hey chillywilly
<chillywilly> subverisons ssh support blows
<chillywilly> goats even
<jamest> anyone play w/ the inno setup stuff?
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> yes
<jamest> that good eh?
<jcater> inno works great :)
<Mr_You> bbl
<jcater> but the resulting install doesn't
<jamest> yes it does
Action: Mr_You &
<jamest> it worked fine on my last build
<jamest> except for the environment vars not being set
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> forms worked for me except the environ vars
<jamest> of course
<jcater> but designer said critical system dlls were missing
<jcater> :(
<jamest> now I'm locked out of cvs
<jamest> designer was never tested
<jcater> but, first things first.. I'm trying to figure out the environ vars
<jamest> ever
<jcater> btw
<jcater> did you know mcmillan forces the __file__ of our imported stuff to be
<jcater> located at c:\python21\
<jcater> fsck!
<jamest> no, i didn't see that
<jamest> i thought it put everything in dist_gf*
<jcater> if you do a gfclient.exe -d10
<jcater> you see all the [mymodule:linenum] Messages
<jcater> have /python21/gnue/common/something
<jcater> as the mymodule
<jcater> I'm trying to see if that's causing it to make the install prefix as c:\python21
<jcater> sigh
<jamest> um
<jamest> that is set in gnue.conf
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<jamest> hardcoded to c:\python21
<jcater> I changed that for the Inno setup
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<jcater> on my machine
<jcater> I'm talking about in gfclient.py and gfdesigner.py
<jcater> so it knows where to find gnue.conf
<jcater> I'm wondering if that's still basing it off of c:\python21
<jamest> well, that's where it initally installs
<jamest> at least on my setup
<jcater> yeah, but remember, you had me do a fix before you left
<jcater> it now uses the base director of gfclient/../etc
<jamest> oh! I misunderstood the problem
<Isomer> hmm
Action: jcater is tired, so isn't coherent
<Isomer> how goes the windows installer?
<jamest> close, i think
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<jcater> goes? well, if it was a physical object, I'd have kicked it out the window by now:)
<Isomer> rofl
<jcater> but close, oh so close
<jcater> jamest: btw, I hope you don't mind.. I added to the inno setup file so it'd associate GFD's with gfclient (so you can double-click a form and run it)
<jcater> also, you can right-click a GFD and click "Edit" and open it in designer
<jamest> cool
<jamest> i wanted to do that but ran out of time
<chillywilly> wtf is inno?
<jcater> it's the "in" versionn of "mono"
<jamest> a free installer for windows
Action: chillywilly beats jcater with a trout
<jamest> takes a script and makes a setup.exe from a bunch of files
<jamest> with the files we have gnuef and designer are setup.exe's
<jamest> that install and uninstall nicely
<jamest> just got to work some kinks out of the system
<chillywilly> we can't have that
<chillywilly> then everyone will expect easy installs
<chillywilly> :P
<jamest> don't worry chiilly
<jamest> if the user name contains dan in it
<jamest> it falls back to a mode that's a royal bitch to install
<chillywilly> great!
<jcater> crap crap crap
<jamest> we knew you'd like it like that
<chillywilly> good work jamest
<jcater> sigh
<Isomer> when are you doing a setup.sh for *nix? :)
<Isomer> shar style? :)
<jcater> Isomer: are you volunteering?
<jamest> Isomer: mcmillan supports a setup file for unix too
<jcater> jamest: I think we found a volunteer :)
Action: Isomer hasn't got it working under linux yet unfortunately
<Isomer> so I'm the worst person to ask :)
<chillywilly> dpkg -i gnue-forms.deb
<chillywilly> weee
<Isomer> heh
<stbain> ok... so if, for example, I have Python2.1 and wxWindows installed... the installer will complete the rest ofthe required tasks for installing GNUe?
<jamest> stbain: on windows you require nothing
<jamest> it's a single setup.exe
<jamest> no python, no db drivers, no wxpython, etc, etc
<stbain> where is this setup.exe?
<jamest> um, we're working on it
<stbain> ;)
<stbain> I see
<stbain> can I help?
<jamest> it almost works
<jamest> you may be able to test in a bit
<stbain> are you running into any specific problems?
<jamest> yeah, it don't work
<Isomer> rofl
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> how very descriptive of you
<stbain> yes... I know how to fix that one
Action: chillywilly beats jamest with a trout
<jcater> dang
<jcater> no slapping?
<chillywilly> no, just beating damnit
<jcater> what did you do jamest to deserve a beating instead of a slapping?
<chillywilly> youg to one too
<chillywilly> you got
<jcater> or is that chillywilly's way of getting kinky?
Action: chillywilly trout whips jcater
<jamest> jcater: i think our working on non-gpl's OS support upsets him
<chillywilly> sticks and stones may break my bones
<chillywilly> but whips and chains excite me
<jamest> argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[18:36] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
Action: jamest grabs chillywilly's trout and beats home workstation with it
<chillywilly> hehe
<jamest> i can update everywhere but here
<jamest> yet I didn't change a damn thing on this system
<jcater> argh!
<jcater> mcmillan is SO DARN SLOW
<jamest> yip
Action: jcater needs 20Ghz Pentium VI
<jamest> or a Athlon 3000Mhz for about the same performance
<jcater> lol
<chillywilly> 3000MHz ~= 3GHz
<jamest> very good
<chillywilly> fewl
<jcater> chillywilly: dang, those engineering courses worked
<jamest> :)
<chillywilly> kiss my ass
<jamest> the new athlon is a 2000+
<jamest> intel is a 2GHz
<jamest> :)
<chillywilly> jcater: you jealous or something?
<jamest> well, I'm really not into that, but I guess you did loan my your trout
<jamest> my = me
Action: jcater trout slaps mcmillan over and over and over and over...
<jamest> jcater: keep telling yourself "It's faster than I could do it by hand"
Action: chillywilly revokes trout slappign priveleges
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<chillywilly> ah crap
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<chillywilly> why do we let such ppl in here?
<jcater> jamest: I dunno about that
Action: chillywilly notes he is getting a 10MB email with SNES roms in it
<jcater> I could've had it installed on all my win32 machines by now :)
<chillywilly> ;P
Action: jcater likes gnue
[18:43] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<jcater> (if I keep telling myself that, I'll believe it)
<chillywilly> you also like computers
Action: Isomer watches as jcater is eaten by a grue
<chillywilly> a LOT
<ajmitch> chillywilly: why do you complain about ppl like me?
<chillywilly> it is called a joke dewd
<jcater> ajmitch: it's called "jealousy"
<chillywilly> get witht he program
<ajmitch> hehe
<chillywilly> jcater: shutup
<chillywilly> you'll make him get a big head
Action: ajmitch just spent a few min trying to get gdm working again
<chillywilly> what happened to gdm?
<ajmitch> i switched from compiled sources to the debian package :)
<chillywilly> oh
<jcater> sigh
<chillywilly> I wodner hoe long this 10MB email is gonna take
<ajmitch> ages
<chillywilly> who asked you?
<ajmitch> gdm has a neat 'login in new window' function which uses Xnest
<chillywilly> shut your pie hole or else feel the wrath of the trout
<ajmitch> chillywilly: shutup before i smack you in the head with a large (rotten) trout
<chillywilly> ;P
<jamest> son of a 
<chillywilly> you guys get to have all the fun
<chillywilly> not!
<chillywilly> shit
<chillywilly> this blows
<jamest> unbelievable
<jamest> my ssh wasn't falling back to protocol 1 as it's done for friggen even
<chillywilly> hmmmm
Action: chillywilly beats head against wall
<jamest> ever
<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> protocol 1 is evil
<chillywilly> protocol 1 licks my bag
<ajmitch> jamest: ah, i had that problem
<ajmitch> i forgot to set ssh to use protocol 2 by default
<chillywilly> damn I think a thread is going to sleep while holding a lock
<chillywilly> fack!
<Isomer> doh!
<chillywilly> hmmm but that would make no sense
<chillywilly> I can't see how it is doing that
<Isomer> assert() is your friend :)
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<neilt> Isomer: or g_assert()
<Isomer> same thing :)
<Isomer> well
<Isomer> same concept anywya
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<chillywilly> hey mdean
<mdean> hey hey hey
<ajmitch> hey hey
<mdean> yo yo
<chillywilly> hey
<chillywilly> yo yo yo
<jcater> "it's the monkeys"
<chillywilly> yooooodaaaaaaaaleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooouuuuuuuuuu
<mdean> booga booga booga
Action: jcater really, really wonders about chillywilly sometimes
<chillywilly> booga booga
<chillywilly> booga
<ajmitch> jcater: i don't wonder about him, i know he's totally nuts ;)
<chillywilly> jcater: go eat your krispy kremes
<jcater> ok
<jcater> later
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<chillywilly> get your freak on
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<Isomer> so, do we have a gooey-even-the-boss-could-do-it installer for the unmentionable-OS?
<derek> jcater the gas station on the corner just bolted on a krispy kremes :)
<derek> how functional eh :)
<derek> now thats what i call a 'plugin'
<derek> maybe you coiuld get a krispy kreme bolted onto side of ncs building ;)
Action: chillywilly waves his pizza in front of derek's nose
<chillywilly> mmmm
<chillywilly> home made pizza too
<chillywilly> uuuuughghghghggggghhhhhhhhh
<Isomer> Pizza?
<Isomer> Mmmmmmmm
Action: ajmitch wants
Action: chillywilly gets ;)
<ajmitch> dammit, i gotta set my other computer off so i can listen to the music stored there...
<ajmitch> s/off/up/
<ajmitch> ;)
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<chillywilly> yes!
<chillywilly> street fighter roms
<chillywilly> [-- Attachment #2: Street Fighter Alpha 2.zip --]  
<chillywilly> [-- Attachment #3: Street Fighter 2 - Lightning Edition.zip --] 
<ajmitch> oh yay
<chillywilly> [-- Attachment #4: Street Fighter 2 - Special Accelerated.zip --]
<chillywilly> [-- Attachment #5: Street Fighter 2 The World Warrior.zip --]   
Action: ajmitch has sonic 2 & 3 roms for megadrive
<chillywilly> [-- Attachment #6: Street Fighter 2 Turbo Hyper Fighting.zip --]
<chillywilly> [-- Attachment #7: Street Fighter 2 - Blackbelt Edition.zip --]
<chillywilly> =)
Action: ajmitch waits for his other box to boot up
<ajmitch> wtf??
<ajmitch> [ajmitch @ ajmitch Sessions] ping 192.168.0.1
<ajmitch> PING 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1) from 192.168.0.12 : 56(84) bytes of data.
<ajmitch> WARNING: kernel is not very fresh, upgrade is recommended.
<ajmitch> not very fresh? ;)
<ajmitch> Linux ajmitch 2.4.14-ext3 #2 Fri Nov 9 19:50:40 NZDT 2001 i586 unknown
<Isomer> heh
<Isomer> needs a bath
<derek> rolf
<ajmitch> hehe
<derek> er rofl
Action: derek smells pizza
<derek> jcater what is iss (inno installer) ?
<jamest> yes
<jamest> iss is the inno script file
<jamest> that generates the setup.exe
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Action: Maniac is away: I'm busy
<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> the setup.py files a little dodgy
<Isomer> it needs "-f" on the rm lines
<jamest> ok, can fix
<Isomer> and it asks for my root password even if I'm root
<Isomer> which scares the crap out of me :)
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> "Warning.  Using this product may leave brown stains on your office chair."
<jamest> :)
<jamest> Isomer: we accept patches :)
<jamest> setup.py is,um, a mess
<jamest> Isomer: um, all the setup.py's have -f
<jamest> on the rm
<derek> jamest is there a way in postgres
<derek> to say get the last 10 records 
<derek> or something
Action: chillywilly wonders if this is the first episode of Lexx
<derek> or do you ahve to get the whole record set
<derek> then move the the cursor there/
<mdean> derek: use limit and order desc
<jamest> what mdean said
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<derek> limit
Action: derek thought that was just a mysql ism :)
<derek> and is it order by
<mdean> limit is only in mysql and pgsql AFAIK, tho you can use tricks in others to accomplish the same thing - but not always
<derek> :)
<mdean> ja - order by field desc
<derek> otay, im not using anything other than postgres so im cool
<derek> select * from foo ORDER BY foo DESC LIMIT 20;
<derek> or something eh
<mdean> yup - something like that
<derek> ja it worked :)
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<derek> arghhh
<derek> ever have a some what friend get involved in a 'marketing' deal
<derek> and like bug the hell out of you
<derek> my wife has a ton of friends that do...
<derek>  . mary kay
<derek>  . gold canyon candles
<derek>  . creative memories scrapbooks
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<derek>  . pampered chef cooking
<ajmitch> heh
<Isomer> jamest: not the one in the root of the CVS?
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<derek> now those arent too bad as at least they are selling something real
<derek> and the girls have fun doing the parties
<derek> but we have a couple that we dont even really hang with for a long time
<derek> and they are into this financial services deal
<derek> it seems like multi level marketing
<derek> and they just wont stop
<jcater> Isomer: fixed it
<derek> we politely say 'not interested really, were too busy'
<derek> etc and they call at least twice a month
<derek> would it be rude to say
<chillywilly> fuck off?
<derek> 'listen dick wads, i dont want jack crap to do with your multi level marketing crap.  go find someother sucker with cash that is stupid enough to part with it on a get rich quick scheme!"
<derek> as im about "  " this far from saying that :)
<chillywilly> nah
<chillywilly> go fro it
<chillywilly> for
<derek> chillywilly: fuck off was my first inclination, but i figured i shoudl use manners :)
<chillywilly> it makes life more interesting
<derek> hmmmm, maybe a trout slap
<chillywilly> yes definitely
<chillywilly> they deserve 2 even
<ajmitch> MLM is again't God's will, i'm sure...
Action: ajmitch organises the trout airdrop...
<chillywilly> MLM?
<chillywilly> nevermind
<ajmitch> multi-level marketing, pyramid schemes, evil money-draining scams ;)
<chillywilly> ya
Action: ajmitch has been playing with neat gdm features
<Isomer> ajmitch: such as?
<ajmitch> easy use of gdm & Xnest is cool, i can setup my flatmate's gnome setup in a window
<ajmitch> it's listed as 'new login in a nested window' in the system menu of gnome on here
<Isomer> funky!
<ajmitch> yep :)
<chillywilly> eh?
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<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> QOTD from work
<ajmitch> hmmmm
<Isomer> mysql is a relational database, without the "relational", and looses your data, which leaves "base", and we all know that all your base are belong to us!
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<chillywilly> Isomer: :D
<Mr_You> hehe
<Isomer> hey hey hey
<Isomer> after about a weeks worth of work
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<Isomer> I've got gnue working!
<chillywilly> woohoo
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<Isomer> except it won't connect to our database :)
Action: Isomer curses mysql once more
<Isomer> DB000: gnue.common.GDataObjects.ProviderNotSupportedError: No database driver found for provider type 'pypgsql'
<Isomer> well
<Isomer> thats one better than mysql
<Isomer> it didn't just crash
<jamest> Isomer: you have the mysql driver?
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<derek>  jamest: we need to change that mysql error to
<derek> 'we are sorry, gnue only works with real databases'
<derek> ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<Isomer> jamest: apparently not :)
<jamest> :)
<jamest> if anyone hates themselves
<jamest> we're currently looking for a win32 install maintainer
<derek> oooooohhhh ooooooohhhhhh
<derek> me me me me me me 
Action: derek just watched shrek and is reminded of the donkey being the only volunteer to go with shrek :)
<derek> btw: im teasing i dont want the windows install maintenance hell er job
<Isomer> psu: time of KC!
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<stbain> hrmmm
<stbain> what are you looking for in the way of a win32 install maintainer
<stbain> ?
<stbain> skillwise
<jamest> someone who hates themself
<jamest> and is willing to put up with a world of pain making this shit work
<jamest> as it's being a bitch
<jamest> i think once we nail down all the gotchas i'll be cake
<jamest> but right now I'm sick of it :)
<Isomer> on redhat 7.2 libpq-fe.h is in /usr/lib/pgsql/libpq-fe.h
<jamest> honestly if someone wants to maintain gnue windows installer
<jamest> i think they should let us hammer out the errors first
<Isomer> so therefore the #include needs #include <pgsql/libpq-fe.h> or you need -I/usr/include/pgsql
<jamest> then it should be as simple as making sure they have latest db/ui drivers
<jamest> and running a bat file
<jamest> then a inno script
<Isomer> whoooohoo! I got gfdesigner to segfault!
<derek> hmmm
Action: jamest blinks 
<jamest> chillywilly: could you slap me w/ a trout please
<jamest> i need to make sure I'm not dreaming
Action: derek slaps jamest with a smelly old crappie
[21:37] Last message repeated 4 time(s).
<jamest> ok, I'm not dreaming
<derek> darn sticky mouse key
<Isomer> why would you be dreaming?
Action: jamest digs himself out from under an excessive pile of smelly old crappie
<jamest> i have a gnuef setup.exe that works out of the box
<jamest> at least for postgresql
<jamest> i need to find all the binary drivers i can
<stbain> wouldn't it be best to use ODBC connectivity with all of the windows clients?
<jamest> ODBC is supported
<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> are boxes not containers?
<jamest> not at this time
<Isomer> theres no way to resize the labels on the property box?
<Isomer> so there are two rows "foreign_key...."
<Isomer> but I can't see what differentiates them?
<jcater> jamest: you will only be able to install stuff like postgresql, mysql, sap-db IIRC
<jcater> I know I tried oracle at work, 
<jcater> but the oracle drivers require oci.dll
<jcater> (which IIRC we can't distribute :(
<derek> jamest: im willing to test the windows install at work tomorrow
<jcater> so it rejected the Oracle drivers
<jamest> do they require it at build time?
<jamest> or only at run time?
<jcater> well
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<Isomer> I can test them heer
<jcater> run time
<Isomer> s/heer/here/
<jcater> BUT
<jcater> mcmillan rejects them because they fail the import
<jcater> unless you can manually include them
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<jcater> seemlessly?
<jcater> bwahahaha
<jamest> ?
<jamest> talking to yourself again?
<jcater> you didn't get the =lil= message?
<jcater> err, =lilo=
<jcater> again? how'd you hear me earlier?
Action: jcater gets paranoid with his PC
<jamest> :)
<jamest> ok, the install works
<jamest> w/ some minnor issues to work out
<jcater> minor?
<jamest> got some masta work
<jamest> yip minor
<jamest> let me commit
<jamest> when the icon on the desktop is created it doesn't have a form 
<jamest> so it fails as gnuef always wants a form
<jamest> we need a very basic "Welsome to gnuef" form that shows some of the features (all non-data bound of course)
<jamest> that we can attempt to tie to that icon
<jcater> lol
<jcater> call it <base>/forms/GFClient.py
<jcater> err, call it <base>/forms/GFClient.gfd
<jcater> as it looks for that anyway
<jcater> :)
<jamest> some inno issues
<jamest> the working dir isn't set unless to specify it in the iss file
<jamest> and mcmillan apps assume they're running in the dir they installed to
<jcater> hmm
<jamest> so no working dir = failed w/ unable to find ddl files
<jamest> dll
<jamest> updates checked in
<jamest> i didn't touch designer yet :(
<jamest> jcater: you stable yet?
<jamest> :)
<derek> what is this inno stuff?
<derek> and when did we decide to you use it?
<Isomer> derek: the installer program
<jamest> free windows installer
<jamest> makes setup.exe
<Isomer> now that I think I understand how to get this program going and doing it's thing
<Isomer> I might do a cvs update :)
<jamest> it's the only free one I could find
<jamest> so I used it
<jamest> and it's nice
<jamest> very nice
<jcater> yes it is
<jcater> I'm gonna switch NCS's stuff to it
<jamest> gnue now installed into start-programs-gnue
<jamest> each app gets an icon, uninstall icon, web link
<jcater> jamest: you test double-clicking a GFD?
<jamest> nope
<jamest> hang on
<jamest> does not work
<jamest> :(
<jamest> gnuef fails missing dlls
<jcater> crap crap crap
<Isomer> DB000:     if self.parser.Parse(buf, 0) != 1:
<Isomer> DB000: SystemError: Python/compile.c:265: bad argument to internal function
<Isomer> is that fixed?
<jamest> that's a new one to me
<jcater> me too
<jamest> how'd you manage that?
<jcater> crap
<Isomer> happens when I try and load a form
<jcater> this sucks
<Isomer> in the designer
<jcater> anyone know of CVS programs for Win98????
<Isomer> there is wincvs
<jamest> ssh and samba
<jamest> or a home server
<jcater> jamest: I had to boot into Win98 mode to 
<jcater> test this win install stuff
<jcater> first time in months :(
<jamest> that's what wifes pc is for
<jamest> :)
<jcater> well, wx crashes it, remember?
<jcater> :(
<jamest> oh yeah
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I guess I can ssh into work and email a setup.py sdist :(
<jamest> btw - cvs commited
<jcater> grabbing now :)
<jamest> i can't find win32 binaries for interbase on the url given in the file
<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> still can't parse that file
<jamest> which file Isomer
<Isomer> well, any xml file by my guess
<jamest> what is the command you're giving (and which platform)
<Isomer> python2 `which gfdesigner` ./helloworld2.gfd
<Isomer> running on rh7
<Isomer> I think the reason is that I've botched the install of PyXML
<Isomer> after looking closer
<Isomer> coz it's occuring inside there
<jamest> hmmm
<jamest> i would think that'd work
<jamest> on thing to remember is that you need to install PyXML under python2.1
<jamest> er, 2.x
<Isomer> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/drivers/drv_pyexpat.py", line 67, in parseFile
<Isomer> DB000:     if self.parser.Parse(buf, 0) != 1:
<Isomer> DB000: SystemError: Python/compile.c:265: bad argument to internal function
<Isomer> yeah
<Isomer> I know
<jamest> hmmm
<jamest> looks like you did 
<Isomer> yeah
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<jamest> sigh
<jamest> uploading a mysql/pgsql enabled gfclient setup.exe for testing
<jamest> on 56k modem it'll take a while
<derek> whooo hoooo
<derek> can you make the beta release
<derek> er pre release and put out for us
<derek> or is this it?
<jamest> this is for IRC people with win32 boxes to kick the tires on
<derek> right, thats me :)
<derek> at work anyhow
<derek> just i dont have cvs at work
<jamest> it'll be on my web site
<derek> so want to make sure its accessible outside of cvs :)
<jamest> i'm uploading now
<derek> its my bed time, night night
<jamest> nite
<jcater> 7:30?
<jcater> since when?
<jcater> :D
<stbain> nite all
<jcater> nite
<stbain> jcater: what's the URL for that setup.exe?
<stbain> I'd like to kick some tires
<jcater> jamest's doing it...
<stbain> hehe
<stbain> too many j's in here
<jcater> lol
Action: stbain pokes jamest
<jamest> it'll be
<jamest> www.gnuenterprise.org/~jamest/pre-release/gnuef-pre-0.1.0.exe
<stbain> ok
<jamest> but it'll be a while
<stbain> n/p
<stbain> I'll download it tomorrow night
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<jamest> jcater switch opn servers
<jcater> brb
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Nick change: cjcater -> jcater
<Remosi> does that mean that the drive for gnue isn't installed? the drive gnue uses isn't installed? or the driver python uses isn't installed or?
<jcater> the latter
<Remosi> ah hmm
<Mr_You> man my dev box sure is slow
<Mr_You> P166MMX I think
<Mr_You> or P150MMX, 133 overclocked
<Remosi> DB000:   File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/__init__.py", line 58, in dyn_import
<Remosi> DB000:     mod = getattr(mod, comp)
<Remosi> DB000: AttributeError: 'gnue.common.dbdrivers' module has no attribute 'pypgsql'
<Remosi> thats a new error message?
<jcater> um
<jcater> what os you running on?
<Remosi> RH7.2
<jcater> are you running a copy of CVS, or a download?
<Remosi> CVS
<Remosi> recently cvs updated
<jcater> is there a pypgsql directory in /usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/dbdrivers/
<Remosi> [perry@saturn gnue]$ ls -d /usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/dbdrivers/pypgsql/
<Remosi> ./usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/dbdrivers/pypgsql/
<jcater> how did you install?
<Remosi> install which?
<jcater> using the setup.py in the gnue/ directory?
<jcater> or the ./setup.py in each tool directory
<Remosi> each one in the tool directory
<jcater> which version of python are you running?
<Remosi> 2.1
<Remosi> ahh
<Remosi> I found out why it says that
<Remosi> the first time I click "Continue" in the wizard
<Remosi> it says "no such driver" (which is false, but never mind)
<Remosi> the second time it says "has no attribute 'pypgsql'
<jcater> oh
<jcater> sigh
<Remosi> so it is a bug
<jcater> yes
<Remosi> but uh, not the one that's making this fail
<Remosi> [perry@saturn gnue-common]$ python2 -c 'import pyPgSQL'
<Remosi> that succeeds
Action: Remosi ponders why it's saying the pyPgSQL module doesn't work
<jcater> have you installed mxDateTime, per chance?
<jamest> his above import would have failed IIRC
<Remosi> ah ha!
<Remosi> jcater: you're correct
<Remosi> mx was installed for 1.5 not 2.0
<Remosi> just figured that myself
Action: Remosi goes back to cursing
<jamest> lol
<jamest> you on a debian box?
<jamest> nevermind
<jamest> sigh
<Remosi> nope
<jamest> rh72 != debian
<Remosi> didn't work on the debian box either :/
<Remosi> oh well
<Remosi> I'm going home
<Remosi> I'll look at it tomorrow morning when I get to work again
<Remosi> thanks for your help :)
<Remosi> (and patience :)
<jamest> ok
<Remosi> g'night
<Remosi> :)
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<jamest> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jamest/pre-release/
<jamest> win32 gnuef client
<jcater> yay
<jamest> you care to abuse it?
<jcater> am now
--- Tue Nov 13 2001