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<ra3vat> hi all
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<mcb30> reinhard: if you're there, how do I get configure to find my -lpython2.1 ?  It's in /usr/lib/python2.1/config.
<mcb30> Python's distutils will tell me where it is:
<mcb30> import distutils.sysconfig
<mcb30> distutils.sysconfig.get_config_vars('LIBS', 'LIBPL')
<mcb30> but I have no idea how to integrate this into configure
<mcb30> or even if it's the right thing to do (is there another way to find it?)
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<reinhard> mcb30: sorry for not paying attention
<reinhard> i am here now
<reinhard> from configure.in line 22
<reinhard> TODO: we need better python checks!
<reinhard> :)
<mcb30> :-)
<mcb30> btw, thanks for sorting out the multiple-method stuff in configure.in
<reinhard> mcb30: what distro do you have?
<mcb30> Mandrake 8.1 on that machine
<reinhard> i have libpython1.5.a in /usr/lib
<mcb30> python doesn't seem to provide a python-config file in the same way as "gtk-config --cflags", but
<mcb30> the distutils.sysconfig.get_config_vars('LIBS', 'LIBPL') finds the locations OK
<reinhard> do you have a "Makefile" in /usr/lib/python2.1/config ?
<mcb30> yes
<reinhard> is there a LDSHARED line that contains this path?
<mcb30> LDSHARED just says "gcc -shared"
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<mcb30> LIBPL has the right entry in:
<mcb30> LIBPL=$(LIBP)/config
<mcb30> LIBP=$(LIBDIR)/python$(VERSION)
<reinhard> now LIBPL doesn't exist in my Makefile :(
<mcb30> also, I see "LIBS=-lpthread -ldl -lutil" which I also need to provide in order to get it to build
<mcb30> (otherwise it moans about undefined references to openpty and forkpty in posixmodule.o)
<reinhard> writing a python test that works with python 1.5 through 2.2 and with different distros seems to be a hard task...
<mcb30> what does your LDSHARED say?
<reinhard> um the same
<reinhard> but i have the library in /usr/lib
<reinhard> where the linker looks anyway
<mcb30> oh
<reinhard> distutils.* doesn't work for python 1.5
<mcb30> how about testing for LIBPL and using it if it exists?
<mcb30> if LIBPL isn't defined then it will look in /usr/lib anyway
<derek> you could ask in #python
<derek> hahahahahhahahaa
Action: derek is funny sometimes :)
<reinhard> once i have time
<reinhard> i will look at other project's tests
<reinhard> like the one from orbit-python seems to be quite good
<mcb30> ok
<reinhard> and i will build a realgood(tm) test that works portably
<derek> we lept to 2.x dependency in forms stuff
<derek> we probably should in geas as well
<reinhard> and contribute it back upstreams to automake maintainers
<derek> iirc embedding python 1.5.2 was pretty limited especially wrt threading
<reinhard> as automake 1.5 supports python "natively"
<reinhard> and the support is like unusable
<reinhard> (i.e. even worse than what we have now)
<mcb30> ok.  btw, there was a small bug in the --enable-{c,python}-methods bit: try "configure --help" and you'll spot it :-)
<derek> jcater: im thinking our check in forms should do something like
<derek> checking for python...... Sorry your snake isnt big enough, you must have one greater than 2.0
<derek> if it hits 1.5.2
<jcater> lol
<reinhard> mcb30: sorry i don't see it
<jamest> reinhard: i second dumping python 1.5.2 support in geas in favor of 2.x
<reinhard> ok
<jamest> reinhard: it's a bit of a pain to users but 1.5.2 is lacking in many ways
<derek> its pretty early here, but i think jamest just agreed with me
<reinhard> which one you is going to update _my_ machine to python 2.0?
<reinhard> :)
<mcb30> strange, I could have sworn it still said --enable-methods=[python|glibmodule] earlier.  I must be going blind.  ignore me
<reinhard> mcb30: that was before the last commit
<derek> none of us
<reinhard> i.e. before rerunning autoconf
<derek> but if you want it updated to 2.2 i will do it :)
<reinhard> seriously i would be ok with python 2.0, too
<mcb30> I thought I *had* run autogen.sh, but I must be hallucinating.
<mcb30> maybe more sleep would be a good idea
<reinhard> i just don't dare to update my production system now
<reinhard> as i need a working system 12 hours a day currently
<reinhard> but i want to switch to debian anyway next year (say march)
<jcater> mcb30: sleep is highly overrated
<derek> jcater: no fair coming from you, you just plug yourself in to recharge and keep on coding
<reinhard> lol
<jcater> recharge=donut box
<derek> rofl
<jcater> mmm.. what's cool is the donut shop around the corner has fresh donuts at 4 am
<jcater> :)
<jcater> just about hte time I need recharging
<jamest> rofl
<jamest> "Hmmmm, reports seems to be lagging behind.  Better FedEx some Long Johns to TN"
<derek> i saw something funny on TN the other day but now i cant remember what
<jcater> is that the punchline?
<jcater> if so, I've heard it before
<derek> rofl
<derek> actually it was on mtv i think
<derek> about racism, some kid there was flying a rebel flag in his truck
<derek> him and his wife went to gas station and some gang thugs taunted them about hte flag then drove up beside them and killed them (shot)
<derek> now what was 'odd' funny whatever you want to call it
<derek> is here is a 20 year old kid with a WIFE going to movie getting gas
<derek> and has a 'flag' in his truck
<derek> yet 3 thugs all under 20 kill him
<derek> then the community is pissed at the kid with the flag?
<derek> and the thugs parents cant believe they are being tried as adults and how horrible it is etc etc etc
<derek> im not a 'southern rebel' or a racist, but last i heard this was a free country and if that boy wanted to wave a flag with a swastika that is up to him
<derek> doesnt give someone that doesnt like it to shoot his arse down 
<derek> anyhow when tehy said it was in tennessee, i thought poor jason
<derek> seeing how they interviewed of course some 'pro rebel flag' yahoos, you know 1 bedroom trailer, 10 kids, no teeth folk :)
<jamest> hey now
<jamest> that's not fair
<jamest> it's hard to find other kinds of people in TN
Action: jamest runs
<derek> jcater: was pretty quiet, im hoping i didnt reference a relative, the kid that got shot did bear a resemeblence ;)
<jcater> I think that was here in memphis
<jcater> yes, the rebel flag is a BIG deal here
<jamest> ?
<jamest> in what way?
<jcater> it is a symbol of heritage to some, a symbol of oppression to others
<jamest> ah
<jamest> i've always thought it odd people display it
<jamest> even here
<jcater> you see it all the time here
<jcater> 'course, we have a lot of mississippians here
<jamest> wondering if they really thought about what it really stood for beyond being a "rebel"
<derek> jcater / jamest in the special i saw i woudl say about 40% of all vehicles had it
<jamest> not too many KS's i bet
<derek> and 70% of vehicles driven by whites
<jamest> most of us are afraid we'd fall off the edge of the planet if we go too far east of Kansas City
<derek> iirc its flown at the capital of mississippi or tennesse 
<jcater> it WAS
<jcater> that's why all the riots lately
<derek> ?
<derek> they took it down
<jamest> gee, that sure makes a statement
<derek> oh moses, that had to be a controversy
Action: derek learns interesting new things on irc all the time, quite the social political hotbed, #gnuenteprise can be :)
<derek> in arizona we are cowboys, and have phrases to match ' they can take my gun when they pry it from my cold dead fingers'
<jcater> the mascot of several schools around here is the Ole Miss Rebel
<derek> i assumed southerners subsituted gun with rebel flag
<jcater> derek: yes
<jcater> my coworker's son got suspended last
<jcater> year for having a rebel flag on his truck
<jamest> wow
<jamest> i had no idea it was that huge an issue down there
<jcater> well, you know, we have some serious problems around here like having the lowest rated school systems in the country, poverty, and gang problems; but we see what is the most important issue :)
<jcater> actually, the whole rebel flag thing is being pushed as some anti-gang crap
<derek> jcater: so you trying to say dem rebels er gist a bunch er rebels?
<jcater> I suppose so
<derek> what a day
<derek> kid wakes up sick with the pukes
<derek> wife has an early am aerobics class
<derek> so i stay late so she can go
<derek> kid still puking
<derek> other kid wakes up has massively nasty diaper
<derek> dog pees in the house
<derek> calgon take me away
<derek> i feel like michael keaton on mr. mom
<jcater> derek: so, where's that sample form?
<jcater> "_
<jcater> :)
<derek> you made one
<derek> that will work for now
<jcater> the one that says:
<jcater> "Please replace me with a better intro" ?
Nick change: mcb30 -> mcb30-lunch
<jcater> :)
<derek> bbl
<derek> off to work
<reinhard> mcb30-lunch: ??
<reinhard> mcb30-lunch: i thought you were UK?
<reinhard> that means it's not normal lunchtime now, is it?
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<derek> hello dres_
<derek> long time no see in here
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<dres_> hello derek
<dres_> actually I'm just usually very quiet.
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<mcb30> reinhard: I tend to eat at strange times
<mcb30> get carried away working! :-)
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<dneighbo> dres how is the gnucash POS going?
<dneighbo> or is that not something you are part of
<dres> dneighbo: it is going well.
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<dneighbo> lunch time
<dneighbo> bbl
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<psu> ok, I'm finally caught up on KC
<psu> no-one is to say anything else for the rest of the day ;-)
Nick change: jcAway -> jcater
<ajmitch> heh
<psu> hi aj 
<psu> you're up early
<psu> or late?
<ajmitch> it's 9:30am
<psu> well, that's early for a coder ;-)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> far too early
<psu> good news story
<psu> c/o slashdot
<psu> http://www.msnbc.com/news/660382.asp?cp1=1
<psu> Tom Lehrer's "The Old Dope Peddler"
<psu> lives
<psu> "he gives the kids free samples
<psu> because he knows full well
<psu> that today's young innocent faces 
<psu> are tomorrow's clientele..."
<psu> just wauting for the time I get to court
<psu> and the judge punishes me 
<psu> by requiring to eat 3 tubs of Haagen-Daaz a day
<psu> or Ben n'Jerrys politically correct ice=cream
<ajmitch> i shoudl really close some apps
<ajmitch> only 17mb swap free
<psu> gotta go bbl
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<ra3vat> hi all
<reinhard> hi ra3vat
<reinhard> bye all
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<ajmitch> morning Isomer
<Isomer> mornin'
<ajmitch> you're up early ;)
<Isomer> er
<Isomer> kinda :)
<ajmitch> early for me ;)
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<Remosi> it's early for me to be on IRC
<Remosi> but not early for me to be asleep
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<ajmitch> wb psu
<psu> hija
<Remosi> psu: On the KC website, would it be possible to have the dates of the latest issues around, or have a cookie to highlight ones you have not yet read?
<Remosi> or am I missing something?
<psu> remosi - there is  a kcgnueannounce mailing list
<psu> does that help?
<psu> i was thinking a subscribing the gnue-discuss mailing list to it
<psu> but will just post manually for each new issue at the moment
<Remosi> hmm
<Remosi> I'm trying to avoid getting oin more mailing lists
<Remosi> hence the reason to read KC :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<psu> kcgnueannounce should just be the one post a week
<psu> automated
<psu> I *think* i'ts even spam proof
<psu> but don't quote me on that
<Remosi> heh
<psu> of course, this wouldn't cover any revised editions I have to send out
<psu> like when I realise I've called jcater "Jeff" again
<ajmitch> hehe
<Remosi> heh
<ajmitch> Remosi: at least he gets your name right ;)
<Remosi> True
<Remosi> I like computers
<Remosi> people see how to spell my name
<Remosi> instead of trying to make up spellings
<Remosi> on the other hand
<Remosi> people have rather valient attempts at trying to pronounce it :)
<psu> A FOAF claims he once managed to crash British Telecom's 
<ajmitch> hehe
<psu> computerised directory enquiries 
<psu> with the name of a Polish friend
<ajmitch> hehe
<Remosi> heh
<ajmitch> i probably could with the name of a samoan friend, but it probably wouldn't accept a name that long ;)
<Remosi> heh
<Remosi> I'm looking up a friend of "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa\x90\x90\x90\x90\xcd\x80"
<ajmitch> hehe
<psu> varchar(30)
<psu> or bust
<ajmitch> ugh
<ajmitch> i would say pesa's full name is about 45-50 characters
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<Remosi> the REALNAME field on IRC is 40 chars from memory
<ajmitch> hey dtm
<psu> there's a welsh railway station with a v long name
<ajmitch> there's an NZ town, iirc, which has a very very long name
<psu> " Llanfairpwllgwngyllgogerychwyrndrobwl-llantysiliogogogoch "
<psu> means Church Mary A Hollow White Hazel Near To The Rapid 
<psu> Whirlpool Church Saint Tysilio Cave Red
<psu> according to
<psu> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache:oyy92Pw4sTg:www.users.qwest.net/~mjhoiland/may24_gogogoch.htm+*gogogoch&hl=en&start=1
<dneighbo> psu, linuxtoday didnt autopick it up
<dneighbo> the KC that is
<dneighbo> i tried to submit a story but they never published
<dneighbo> perhaps you could submit underwhatever format you did before they will recognize it?
<psu> odd#
<psu> I posted KC1
<psu> but KC2 appeared automatically
<psu> I will try to submit a stroy re. KC3
<psu> and see what happens
<dneighbo> cool
<psu> http://www.linuxtoday.com/search.php3?query=GNUe
<psu> curioser and curioser
<psu> submitted it anyway
<psu> see what happens
<psu> dn - I've not forgotten about my email last week
<psu> (esp. since you fwd it to gnue-reports)
<psu> should have some time to look at this week
<psu> how much detail do you want
<psu> or shall I just wing it?
<psu> bbl
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<Remosi> cw!
<chillywilly> hi
<Remosi> how are you today?
<chillywilly> sad
<chillywilly> depressed
<Remosi> er, ok
<chillywilly> and my heart aches
<Remosi> whats gotcha down?
<chillywilly> not seeing my sweety or my son since saturday
<chillywilly> she hasn't called me
<chillywilly> and wrote me a shitty email
<chillywilly> makes me feel like she's using me for my car
<ajmitch> ouch
<chillywilly> she took it before I went up to green bay
<chillywilly> doesn;t even tell me her work schedule
<chillywilly> fuck her
<chillywilly> she pisses me off too
<Remosi> :
<Remosi> :/
<chillywilly> she onyl work 5 fucking minute from here
<chillywilly> you would think she could stop by and see me
<chillywilly> well I am gonna go cook something to eat
<chillywilly> brb
Action: chillywilly is away: dinner
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<Remosi> Mmm
<Remosi> food
Action: Remosi ponders lunch
<chillywilly> dinner time here
<chillywilly> Tue Nov 20 17:05:36 CST 2001
<Remosi> Wed Nov 21 11:22:57 NZDT 2001
<Remosi> you're a li'l slow :)
<chillywilly> as are most of the GNUe developers
<Remosi> :)
<chillywilly> 4 of us are in US CST
<chillywilly> time zone
<Remosi> yeah
<Remosi> it's a pain being in NZDT
<Remosi> the people I want to talk to
<Remosi> are either asleep
<Remosi> or at work
<chillywilly> no irc at work?
<chillywilly> ;)
<Remosi> er
Action: Remosi glances at the boss
<Remosi> hmm
<chillywilly> haha
<Remosi> I don't think the issue has yet arisen
<chillywilly> where do you work?
<chillywilly> what do you do?
<Remosi> Business Systems Developments
<chillywilly> k
<Remosi> web apps mostly for companies
<chillywilly> ok
<Remosi> Firewalls
<Remosi> etc :)
<ajmitch> sounds fun ;)
<ajmitch> hey, at least i'm in NZDT as well ;)
<chillywilly> is th ebioss gonna let you hack GNUe?
<chillywilly> the boss I mean
<ajmitch> Remosi: you in hamilton?
<Remosi> ajmitch: yes.
<Remosi> chillywilly: we've not got any projects at the moment that gnue would be a good fit for
<chillywilly> we git web firms now though
<chillywilly> forms
<Remosi> true
<chillywilly> you can do GNUe web apps
<chillywilly> :P
<Remosi> and when I get some time I'm going to be looking at that very very hard :)
<Remosi> the Auck branch does lots of Oracle Development too
Action: ajmitch has been playing with webware a little
<Remosi> and they're constantly cursing their tools <grin>
<chillywilly> do they like the snake?
<chillywilly> python ;)
<chillywilly> well jcater uses GNUe Forms as a replacement for Oracle forms
<chillywilly> ;)
<Remosi> several of the developers here are big on Python (inc. me)
<Remosi> yeah
<Remosi> I suspect we can't migrate everyone off oracle immediately
<Remosi> but yeah
<ajmitch> hmm, would be fun to talk to alex & get to do some GNUe stuff, i can think of an app that could be replaced ;)
<chillywilly> big money saving if you do
<chillywilly> asvings
<Remosi> yeah
<chillywilly> savings
<Remosi> I know
<chillywilly> ajmitch: ;)
<ajmitch> at the moment the client has an app (central to their operation) which uses Foxpro
<ajmitch> at least i think that's the one
<chillywilly> gnucash wins on cvs commits again
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> gstreamer has been quiet lately
<chillywilly> another bonobo article
<Remosi> yeah
<Remosi> and now we have to figure out what planet the summary authors are on
<chillywilly> why?
<Remosi> so we can start accurately predicting when the next one will be
<ajmitch> norway ;)
<chillywilly> Christian is on IRC sometimes
<ajmitch> well, christian schaeller is
<Remosi> A new GNOME Summary covering the period from October 28th to November 16th is out. We are still on a weekly schedule, we just don't follow earth weeks :).
<ajmitch> yeah, he's in #gstreamer fairly often
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> he's been flat out at work
<Remosi> yeah
<Remosi> thats understandable ;)
<ajmitch> wow, RMS got a bit of money
<chillywilly> er?
<ajmitch> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-11-20-013-20-PS
<ajmitch> RMS, Linus, and ken sakamura each got $830K
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<chillywilly> cool
<dneighbo> jcater: glad designer on windows didnt wrok
<dneighbo> as i sat down to clean up sample form :)
<dneighbo> and now see you did so :)
<jcater> have you run it?
<jcater> it rocks!
<dneighbo> nope
<nickr> ahoy there mateys
<dneighbo> need new version for winders :)
<jcater> btw, I used designer on windows to design it :)
<dneighbo> as i dont have cvs here :)
<jcater> well, we are releasing tonight
<dneighbo> designer on windows from prelease c is unusable
<jcater> bugs or no nugs
<jcater> bugs
<jcater> yes, I know
<jcater> I lost a lot of sleep because of that :)
<dneighbo> hopefully you had the routines alreday :)
<dneighbo> for your samples
<jcater> a good chunk of designer was rewritten in last 2 days
<ajmitch> hi dneighbo, jcater, nickr
<jcater> ajmitch: 'sup?
<chillywilly> howdy
<ajmitch> not much, been playing with webware again (not uiwebware tho)
<chillywilly> I wonder if RMS will give me some money :P
<chillywilly> I don;t want much
<chillywilly> just enough to be debt free
<dneighbo> i wonder if people will still but RMS
<dneighbo> 'how do you expect to live writing free software'
<chillywilly> uh?
<chillywilly> "awards"
<chillywilly> :P
<dneighbo> as now he should be able to live 'rather comfortably' if he is smart
<dneighbo> without ever working for cash again
<chillywilly> well he got that McArthur award too ya know
<chillywilly> that was a nice chunk od change iirc
<chillywilly> s/od/of
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-11-20-013-20-PS-0005
<chillywilly> GNU/Linus
<jcater> roflmao
<chillywilly> "hey, I didn't name it Stallmanix"
<jcater> it'd be "Stallux".. 
<chillywilly> it should be "pussies who talk shit about rms should die"
<jcater> you remind me of a follower of Stalin or Hitler :)
<jcater> gotta run
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<chillywilly> that was a joke fewl
<nickr> whats new any interesting?
<chillywilly> the man ruined his hands he hacked so damn much
<chillywilly> show me someone who has given more for Free Software than RMS
<nickr> Me
<nickr> I gave everything, my mansion, yact, helicoptor
<nickr> even my island
<chillywilly> wow
<chillywilly> you're my hero
<Remosi> your island?
<Remosi> whoa
<chillywilly> he's bullshitting
<Remosi> so am I
<chillywilly> I knew that ;)
<chillywilly> really I did
<ajmitch> Remosi: the great Uraeus is online now ;)
<nickr> i was bullshitting on everything except for the island
<Remosi> hmm
<Remosi> I'd like a nice island
<chillywilly> nickr: turd island?  ;)
<nickr> chillywilly: Ho Island, its named after jomamma
Action: nickr coughs
<ajmitch> hehe
<chillywilly> I will just call you king shit of turd island
<chillywilly> all hail the king!
<dneighbo> um i gave up my life
<chillywilly> heh
<dneighbo> er wait i didnt have one to start with, but that is 'irrelevant'
<dneighbo> jason escaped before posting new prelease...
<dneighbo> punk!
<dneighbo> :)
<Remosi> send out the hounds!
<Remosi> he won't get far!
<nickr> release the hounds!
<chillywilly> no no
<chillywilly> our software does not get released
<dneighbo> hounds are on strike
<chillywilly> it "escapes"
<dneighbo> say they wont 'sic em' any more
<dneighbo> they are saying that for years they have been skimped on thanksgiving scraps
<Remosi> chillywilly: leaving a bloody trail of beta testers in it's wake?
<dneighbo> and in light of that they are striking until a new turkey scrap settlement is reached
<dneighbo> most pitiful i tell ya
<Remosi> dneighbo: how about a 10% pay rise, and a commision of one limb per person caught?
<nickr> release the scab hounds and teh robotic richard simmons1
<chillywilly> Remosi: nah, masta is a tough bugger he's usually the one inflicting the pain
<dneighbo> Remosi unfortunately its not an issue on the 'protection' clause of the contract, they feel due payment is done there
<dneighbo> its a table scrap issue
<ajmitch> i see
<chillywilly> dneighbo: give them the turkey leg damnit
<dneighbo> we tried to tell them that getting over 25% of owners to let them reside 'inside' the abode was better than most non union dogs have it
<dneighbo> and that they are trivializing the scraps picked up during daily eating and that large meal scrap consumption is being over stated on importance
<dneighbo> but you know the union has just gone to the dogs under the new leadership ;)
<nickr> I feel like I'm not helping gnuenterprise like I should be. What should I do?
<nickr> besides brining strike breakers
<chillywilly> GEAS needs help
<dneighbo> nickr install, test, use
<nickr> dneighbo: okay.
<dneighbo> no seriously, i would like to see you start an independent proposal for document management
<nickr> I need to build a client-server workflow system, I can do this using only forms right?
<nickr> Okay
<nickr> How do I do that?
<ajmitch> chillywilly: what does GEAS need help with?
<ajmitch> you have a list of needed items, a long-term vision for GEAS?
<ajmitch> you gonna make a speech about how you "have a dream" for what GEAS will one day be?
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<dneighbo> nickr: no to your first question
<ajmitch> hey jamest
<dneighbo> forms wont do 'workflow'
<jamest> wazzup!
<dneighbo> the two auxillary things i want ot see started are
<dneighbo> workflow
<dneighbo> document managment
<dneighbo> BOTH of these are important
<ajmitch> jamest: just discussing world domination, of course
<nickr> dneighbo: erm, well, basically not workflow but allowing to electronicise the current forms based workflow
<dneighbo> and will have to interact with forms, geas and virtually all parts of the system
<dneighbo> nickr: yes you could do that
<jamest> i figured we were talking about automating the management of derek's pr0n collection
<dneighbo> if someone does something all on paper
<dneighbo> currently to pass things around you could make this digital via forms
<chillywilly> ajmitch: we have a TODO list
<nickr> yes
<dneighbo> just you wouldnt have all sorts of 'goodies' associated with more realistic workflow
<nickr> thats basically whatI want to do
<dneighbo> i.e. notifications etc...
<nickr> hrm
<dneighbo> you could 'bolt' those into the form via triggers
<dneighbo> but it wouldnt be the 'long' term solution
<dneighbo> i owuld say if you have an itch
<nickr> I need a sort of notification, the ability to associate an event with forms being submitted
<dneighbo> that is the most powerful thing to us in gnue currently
Action: chillywilly snuggles his C++
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<nickr> Well, overall I see it as I need the ability to associate data with objects and modify that data using forms
<chillywilly> dude we just need to rewrite GEAS in C++ so we can take advantage of Dave's awesome code
<chillywilly> ;)
<jamest> or python
<chillywilly> never
<jamest> it'd almost write itself then
<chillywilly> plz
<chillywilly> I don't see what the big deal about python is it is no better than OO C :P
<jamest> :)
<nickr> association and modification using forms, in different ways
<dneighbo> chillywilly no offense if it gets rewritten in something slower than C
<dneighbo> it will be python
<jamest> i reminds me of a snake C doesn't
<chillywilly> dneighbo: no offense but are you gonna stop me?
<dneighbo> no
<dneighbo> but i dont think you want to rewrite a system that is ever evolving on own just to make it C++
<nickr> and these objects will need to be extracted into reports or other processed end-points
<nickr> anyway
<chillywilly> I;m not anyway
<chillywilly> it was a joke
<dneighbo> nickr thats the idea behind geas
<chillywilly> I would love to use GObject though
<dneighbo> it would hook into workflow
<nickr> right but GAES is not ready for use yet
<chillywilly> :(
<dneighbo> nickr: not in that capacity no
<nickr> so I have to look at what is ready for use now and how I can use it
<nickr> with the minimum of effort :)
<chillywilly> dneighbo: I got other projects that let me play with C++
<chillywilly> dneighbo: no need for GEAS to go C++ ;)
<dneighbo> chillywilly : so when you gonna start committing code against gnue again?
<chillywilly> after GSim is released
<dneighbo> what is GSim?
<chillywilly>    GSim - A C++ simulation library.
<chillywilly>    Copyright (C) 2001 Daniel Baumann 
<chillywilly>  
<chillywilly>    This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
<chillywilly> discrete event simulation library
<chillywilly> http://www.msoe.edu/~blessing/cs470/
<chillywilly> maybe it will be GNU Sim soon ;)
<chillywilly> I can actually simulate the single server single queue, but i need to read some detached threads....which AI am hacking right now
<chillywilly> s/read/reap
<chillywilly> reorganizing things a bit and making the "Simulation" object a child of Thread so it can Terminate() the detached threads
<chillywilly> that are schedued to run after the simulation time...i.e., they are too late to run again they need to be killed
<nickr> dneighbo: What sort of work should I do on the docustore if I pursue it?
<dneighbo> get assingments in if you dont already
<dneighbo> the big problem i had with docustore and why didnt pursue more
<dneighbo> is that there seemed to be an IP nebula surrounding it
<dneighbo> i would like our document management stuff to be 'clean'
<chillywilly> anyway, here's a cool simulation site/project http://www.threadtec.com/sml/index.htm
<nickr> dneighbo: what do you mean?
<dneighbo> i.e. part of the gnue project directly are part of a completely GPL based entity that has assignment work in
<nickr> yea
<nickr> I can work from the work I've done as long as the implimentation is independent
<dneighbo> nickr: iirc you had some people paying you to do docustore?? and they were workign on some trust metric or the like and you were researching the ramifications
<nickr> eg, I can start anew using the ideas I started with
<dneighbo> right
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> thats what i mean by 
<dneighbo> independent :)
<nickr> they weren't paying me, it was part of an IP swap situation that isn't really in place anymore
<dneighbo> ah
<nickr> And it was intended to end up as free software anyway, it was just a matter of keeping track of ownership that was their issue.
<dneighbo> right
<dneighbo> didnt say it was bad or non free
<nickr> nod
<dneighbo> just more messy than we were wanting to track :)
<nickr> yea, me too
<chillywilly> non-free == bad
<nickr> thats why I dropped it.
<chillywilly> :P
<nickr> The people I was working with had a tendency to overcomplicate things like that.
<dneighbo> as to the specification
<dneighbo> i think the overriding themes are 
<chillywilly> nickr: it was a cluster fuck
<dneighbo> Python or C (preferably python)
<dneighbo> shoudl reuse as much of gnue common as possible
<chillywilly> python would be good for docustore
<nickr> Why does the language matter?
<nickr> Its an interface spec so the language of the modules is irrelement
<nickr> vent
<dneighbo> should be tightly integrated into geas/forms/reports(which should be a given IF its using common properly)
<chillywilly> cause they are python addicts
<dneighbo> i disagree
<dneighbo> i think its 2 things
<chillywilly> you deny you have a problem dneighbo?
<chillywilly> ;P
<dneighbo> part a : is a spec (which is implementation non specific) i.e. something anyone coudl use to write in own language
<dneighbo> part b : is an actual implementation of that spec which is language specific for GNUe
<nickr> erm.
Action: chillywilly caresses auto_ptr<>
<dneighbo> i say that becasue we dont want 20 tools in 20 languages
<nickr> THat goes against the ideals of my design.
<chillywilly> I love the STL
<nickr> kind of.
<dneighbo> we want someone (an enterprise) to be able to pick up the tool kit and hack on any part of it
<dneighbo> without hiring or retraining coders
<dneighbo> i see it as
<dneighbo> a. the spec
<dneighbo> b. the server (which has to be written in SOMETHING)
<nickr> right.
<nickr> I was prototyping componants in Perl because the CORBA interface is so sweet.
<dneighbo> note that b would use GComm from common that would allow it communication via ANY RPC
<dneighbo> corba, xml-rpc etc
<nickr> is that ready to use?
<dneighbo> so more flexible than perl and corba
<dneighbo> i say a. is a document
<dneighbo> b. is python code using common :)
<nickr> I don't think I'd write it in Python, but who knows.
<chillywilly> the rpc abstarction does not really exist
<dneighbo> but if a is done well then someone could write b in perl say with little trouble
<dneighbo> and if b is done write
<nickr> probably C
<chillywilly> only a design
<ajmitch> nah, go with python ;)
<dneighbo> someone should be able to use it in any language and treat like a black box
<dneighbo> nickr: i say python
<chillywilly> nickr: C w/ glib/GOBject ;)
<dneighbo> as i see it reusing most of common 
<dneighbo> for db abstraction
<nickr> I'm not going to worry about it unitl the spec is written
<dneighbo> xml parsing
<dneighbo> etc etc etc
<nickr> Right.
<dneighbo> so rather than using C to glue python gnue=common together
<dneighbo> easier to just use python
<dneighbo> thast MHO
<dneighbo> others are welcome to theirs :)
<chillywilly> or create python bindings
<nickr> My main design issue now, though, is authentication and security
<chillywilly> which is easy
<dneighbo> chillywilly you are missing the point
<nickr> thats sort of why I stopped working on it
<dneighbo> the SERVER itself INTERNALLY need to use common
<dneighbo> this is same issue geas has currently btw
<dneighbo> we want shared db system, trigger system, rpc system
<nickr> because its a theoretical construct, something for a lab
<chillywilly> dneighbo: no I am not in fact I think most it the common stuff should be in C with python bindings made
<dneighbo> currently we will have to wrap all common to use C
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<dneighbo> er be presentable to C
<nickr> it won't work in the real world, because each componant needs to be able to not trust the others
<nickr> and also needs to trust the transport
<dneighbo> nickr: im half and half
<dneighbo> im interested in document management even OUTSIDE security
<dneighbo> i.e. im not opposed to mocking some ideals up independent of security
<nickr> Well thats where I am
<dneighbo> as that is another issue within gnue we will have to face and make a shared piece of sorts and that is security
<nickr> but for it to be useful, it has to have trustless compontants and trustable transport
<dneighbo> security and workflow are like the two things most everything will need to use
<Mr_You> what is the discussion?
<dneighbo> but are like intangibles so to speak
<dneighbo> nickr: i think it best to KISS and work our way up
<nickr> okay, well then I have the interfaces defined
<nickr> I just have to write it up )
<dneighbo> right now there is ZERO ZIP NIL document management stuff (That i have seen) for linux or free software in general
<nickr> Is there a document standard?
Action: Mr_You likes KISS too.
<nickr> I mean for writeup-
<dneighbo> just beign able to organize files logically, make them searchable and such
<dneighbo> is a HUGE win
<dneighbo> even if basic or no security
<dneighbo> and basic or no workflow attached to it
<Mr_You> hmm shouldn't have bought this peminto cheese with pickles.. they are bread and butter :-(
<Mr_You> I think there needs to be some sort of authentication at some point
<Mr_You> worry about permissions later
<Mr_You> webforms shouldn't be a problem as you can authenticate the outsiders using web authentication
<dneighbo> talking document management
<dneighbo> but even forms 
<dneighbo> i see it as useful even if its just a yes you can log in or no you cant
<dneighbo> does it need more ABSOLUTELY
<Mr_You> yeah
<dneighbo> but its not USELESS as it sits
<dneighbo> i woudl rather see something produced and usable even to a few people in a short time
<dneighbo> building as you go
<dneighbo> than a long time with nothing usable to anyone
<chillywilly> why always a quick hack?
<Mr_You> a quick hack?
<chillywilly> I'd rather see a decent design before some code any day
<jcater> chillywilly: cause ask any experienced project manager around... you have to start with something or you'll "plan" yourself to death
<chillywilly> jcater: it's a trade off
<jcater> chillywilly: exactly
<chillywilly> jcater: but 0 design is not "compromising"
<Mr_You> I've offered my requirements for authentication in the past
<chillywilly> some point you have to say no mor edesigning
<jcater> I don't think anyone said 0 design
<Mr_You> cw: how can you call something a quick hack when it doesn't exist yet?
<Mr_You> don't be pesimestic
<chillywilly> Mr_You: just from dneighbo's comments...and I don't need a lecture
<Mr_You> relax, don't be so defensive
<nickr> does gcomm offer any sort of filesystem abstraction?
<chillywilly> I am relaxed
<Mr_You> let me rephrase "no need to be so defensive
<chillywilly> gcomm is only on paper
<nickr> like 'here is a resource ID, give me the bytes'
<jamest> you talking the gcomm in gnue-common?
<nickr> I have no idea.
<chillywilly> I vote for a whole different term for it as it is confusing in mor eways than none
<chillywilly> gcomm can be confused with gnue common the module and later GNU Comm telephony project
<chillywilly> s/none/one
<jcater> ok
<jcater> how about gRPC
<chillywilly> no one liked my acronyms?
<jamest> ?
<jamest> didn't see them
<chillywilly> GNU DOG - Distributed Object Glue
<jamest> well, it's not an object glue
<chillywilly> GROWN - GNU's Reusable Object Adaptor Network
<Mr_You> GNU or GNUe?
<chillywilly> jamest: dure it is it unifies RPC
<jcater> ax the OBJECT part
<chillywilly> sure
<jamest> rpc isn't object based
<Mr_You> you guys are creating a proprietary RPC?
<jamest> no
<chillywilly> abstraction layer
<jamest> think ODBC for comm protocols
<dneighbo> sorry was bs'ing
<chillywilly> why not objects?
<dneighbo> but chillywilly i take offense
<chillywilly> eh?
<dneighbo> when i say i see two parts
<Mr_You> jamest: what is the need for that?
<jamest> dneighbo: and that is something new?
<dneighbo> a. specification
<dneighbo> b. the server
<dneighbo> how can you say i meant 0 design?
<chillywilly> dneighbo: sorry
<jamest> Mr_You: you can plug in the orb of your choice, or rpc, or soap, or xmlrpc, or customer communications protocol
<chillywilly> xml-rpc is useless when there's SOAP
<jamest> so I dont have to force you to run your server w/ FooOrb 2000
<Mr_You> sounds complicated
<dneighbo> i was simply stating that perhaps not fully fleshing out parts of the specification preven 'planning' to death as jcater eloquently put it :)
<ajmitch> and dcop? ;)
<jamest> that's why jcater is writing it :)
<chillywilly> plain rpc is useles when there's CORBA
<jamest> lol
<chillywilly> welcome to the brave new world of OO
<Mr_You> Object Translator
<jcater> chillywilly: not
<dneighbo> chillywilly the primary issue is you can only CONTROL your own environment
<jamest> that's funny
<chillywilly> CORBA is OO RPC
<dneighbo> so what happens when your oracle packages only speaks xml-rpc and gnue only speaks corba?
<dneighbo> then you end up having to write a 'bridge'
<chillywilly> you can support xml-rpc in objects too
<dneighbo> so rather than have people write a ton of 'bridges' post mortem
<chillywilly> KDe does that you know
<dneighbo> better to just let the person decide up front
<dneighbo> if you think its silly (gcomm) or the concepts
<chillywilly> this is what I envision that we have a common object system in GNUe and that these objects be data aware and RPC indepedent
<dneighbo> no one will force you to use or right them :)
<dneighbo> er write even
<chillywilly> I like gcomm
<dneighbo> chillywilly perhaps, but i think that might be going too far
<chillywilly> jsut saying xml-rpc doe snot rule out talking to objects
<chillywilly> how is it going too far?
<chillywilly> forms can either use them directly
<chillywilly> or use the remote interface (gcomm)
<dneighbo> im thinking more protocol iniatives than getting into the objects
<dneighbo> not saying would rule it out
<jcater> chillywilly: this is nothing more than an abstraction layer; nothing more, nothing less
<dneighbo> but saying its a fine line
<dneighbo> and would not be part of RPC abstraction
<jcater> now, we could build data-aware objects that use GComm
<jcater> but then we'd have GEAS :)
<chillywilly> jcater: how can you absatrct CORBA without playing with objects?
<dneighbo> i.e. if we had internal common object system it would be independent of GComm etc
<jamest> geas does it now
<dneighbo> jamest: you stole my line :)
<jamest> it doesn't expose objects
<jamest> just an interface
<chillywilly> jcater: yes and you said you guys wanted to be able to download methods and execute them offline
<jcater> huh? I don't follow how this is related; but, I've gotta run for a minute
Action: jcater is away: pizza run
<chillywilly> this was mentioned before
<dneighbo> can you dcc a slice to me when you get back :)
<chillywilly> I remember jamest saying that you sorta wanted a fat client for slow links and such
<nickr> Is there a thing I should be following to write a spec?
<chillywilly> or the ability to execute locally
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Action: chillywilly doesn't wanna talk about writing docs
<dneighbo> um nickr yes and no
<dneighbo> docbook please :)
<nickr> I like writing docs
<dneighbo> and there are some templates out there kind of
<chillywilly> I agree wit da masta
<nickr> Because its easier than writing code
<nickr> hmm.
<dneighbo> damn i wanted to talk to jason and jamest but they both left
<dneighbo> *****************
Action: chillywilly doesn't mind writing them either
<dneighbo> note....
<Mr_You> what is considered a slow link?
<chillywilly> dialup
<dneighbo> i think if gcomm were working and we instituted a TCP/IP RPC (raw sockets)
<nickr> 28.8k modem?
<chillywilly> that too
<dneighbo> that we could ditch the idea of 'two tier'
<Mr_You> hrrm
<dneighbo> as basically the big bitch in n tier for something smaller was added rpc dependencies and such
<dneighbo> if its all native tcp/ip sockets should be no additional weight so to speak
<dneighbo> and we could have the client autostart the server
<dneighbo> anyhow just a thought... i have some issues and more thoughts on it
<dneighbo> but will try to discuss later
<dneighbo> ***********
<nickr> What do I write in a spec or requirements doc?
<dneighbo> um
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<nickr> docbook xml or sgml?
<dneighbo> jamest please read log
<chillywilly> sgml
<dneighbo> we were using sgml version
<Mr_You> you guys are scaring me.. sounding like we're rewritting/designing GEAS
<chillywilly> that's NOT the point
<chillywilly> jsut forget I ever said anything
<Mr_You> me?
<Mr_You> I was refering to everyone
<dneighbo> Mr_You yes and no
<jamest> read log
<chillywilly> 2-tier is redoing GEAS like stuff anyway
<chillywilly> duh
<chillywilly> db abstraction
<chillywilly> triggers
<chillywilly> so why not share?
<dneighbo> comments no ditching two tier concept if we have GComm (tcp/ip sockets)
<dneighbo> chillywilly right
<dneighbo> its not a matter of redoing as much as using same code base
<chillywilly> brb
<chillywilly> pizza ;)
<dneighbo> f you all
<chillywilly> uh?
<chillywilly> oooh
<dneighbo> you pizza eating mutha fsckers
<chillywilly> you're getting violent over pizza
<dneighbo> see if i share with you
<chillywilly> dude
<nickr> I haven't had pizza in months
Action: dneighbo has pizza addictions
<chillywilly> if I could dcc pizza for real
<nickr> I have had $0 for a long as I can remember
<chillywilly> I would send you some
<jamest> we want to share, however I have no intentions of abondoning python code unless it's profiled and proven too slow or doesn't meet the needs in some respect
<chillywilly> I love my masta
<dneighbo> wife threatened to put me in pizza rehab
<ajmitch> hmm, pizza...
<dneighbo> must leave
<dneighbo> bbl
Action: ajmitch wants to have some lunch...
<dneighbo> hope to come home to a nice fat release bonanza :)
<chillywilly> jamest: what if I create a nice OO database absatrction layer and then make python bindings?
<chillywilly> would you guys use it then?
<dneighbo> btw: jamest you and jcater have to work rest of this week?
<jamest> only thru weds for me
<dneighbo> well if you write it probalby not
<dneighbo> but maybe if reinhard or someone else did we would :)
<chillywilly> that's the onyl thing I like about C you can make a billion in one bindings for it
<jamest> chillywilly: why not write binding for what we have?
<chillywilly> how?
<dneighbo> must go for real now :)
<dneighbo> bbl
<chillywilly> that consists of loading the interpreter and it is not OO
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Nick change: mcb30-away -> mcb30
<mcb30> whoa - the python/C debate has erupted!
<chillywilly> well I dunno jamest I have not really looked at it but do you have you db api documented?
<jamest> yes
<chillywilly> where?
<chillywilly> and in what format?
<jamest> in gnue-common/doc
<jamest> txt
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> I'll keep it in mind then
<chillywilly> gotta go eat now for real
Action: chillywilly is away: pizza
<mcb30> looks like I managed to miss all the action  :(
<neilt> python can run compiled and it is OO
<neilt> if that was the question
<jamest> ls
<neilt> ls ?
<jamest> wrong window
<jamest> i dont' know what the question was
<neilt> AUTHORS               Makefile.in           config.cache          configure.logfile     geas.spec             mkinstalldirs
<neilt> COPYING               NEWS                  config.guess          depcomp               geas.spec.in          py-compile
<mcb30> huh?
<jamest> lol
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:11:48)
<Remosi> hm
Action: chillywilly watches Frascape
<chillywilly> Farscape even
<Remosi> hmm
<Remosi> not a bad program
Action: jcater is back (gone 00:29:00)
<chillywilly> http://www.dbmsmag.com/9707d131.html
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<chillywilly> ack
<chillywilly> fucking Java Data Objects (ODMG) is a nice proprietary standard
<Remosi> sigh
<chillywilly> man Sun pisses me off
<Remosi> these people need to understand that "Standard" means "everyone uses it" and therefore you can't say "You can't use it!"
<chillywilly> who friggin licenses a standard/.
<chillywilly> ?
<Remosi> I mean, it's a contradiction in terms
<chillywilly> Terms and conditions of the license & export for JSR-000012 Java(TM) Data Objects Specification 1.0 
<chillywilly> ODMG basically proposed this to the JCP
<chillywilly> fuck it I'll just write my own my design book has a nice design on a persisten framework
<chillywilly> persistent
<chillywilly> it is lacking locking and concurrency issues though
<chillywilly> I can fix that I think ;)
<Remosi> hmm
Action: chillywilly is gonna write GNU Data Objects library for GObject ;P....libGDA sucks
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<Remosi> hrm
<Remosi> X crashed?
<chillywilly> ick
<Remosi> hasn't that to me in years
<Remosi> hmm
<Remosi> Nimda's going a bit crazy today
<ajmitch> oh?
Action: Remosi ponders if theres some mad windows users on Xtra today
<ajmitch> you mean xtramsn? ;)
<Remosi> yeah
<Remosi> that one :)
Action: Remosi has this box set up to say "Whoohoo" every time we get Nimda probe
<ajmitch> hehe
<Remosi> we've been getting like one or two a day
<Remosi> today we've had one or two in the last hour
<ajmitch> brb, got pizza to cook & eat ;)
<Remosi> Pizza? Mmmmm
<Remosi> little early for dinner, a little late for lunch
<Remosi> but any time's a good time for pizza!
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> breakfast was kinda late
<Remosi> had a classic Nimda moment a  while ago
<ajmitch> fun
<Remosi> listening to Offspring, had "I'm alive! I'm Alive! I'm Alive!" then right on cue comes nimda's "WHOOOHOO!"
<ajmitch> lol
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<Remosi> hmm
Action: Remosi times jcater
<ajmitch> too long...
<jamest> give him a break
<jamest> he has to boot into win98 for final testing for the release
<jamest> :)
<jamest> poor guy
<ajmitch> oh dear
<Remosi> shudder
<ajmitch> Remosi: are there worse systems to use?
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<Remosi> hmm
<Remosi> when did Stallman start the GNU project?
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<jamest> Date: Tue, 27-Sep-83 12:35:59 EST
<jamest> look here for more info
<jamest> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html
<Remosi> hmm
<Remosi> thats a pity
<Remosi> I was hoping it was going to be a lot earlier than the IBM PC
<Remosi> so RMS could post a nice article pointing out that it started before MS arrived on the scene
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<jamest> here victim , victim, victim
<Mr_You> haha
<jamest> www.gnuenterprise.org/~jamest/pre-release for what release snapshots 
<jamest> what = final (almost :)
<jamest> not the .exe's but the .zips and tarx
<jamest> tar.gz's
Action: jcater is working on exes as we speak, tho
<jamest> yip
<Mr_You> 0.1.0 release tommorow?
<jamest> tonight
<jamest> or we die trying
<jamest> all remaining bugs are left as is unless they prevent install
<ajmitch> fun
<ajmitch> bugs don't matter as much as they do for a 1.0 release
<Mr_You> cool
<jamest> if you feel brave please try install
<ajmitch> gonna whip the PR teams into shape, getting them ready to submit stories to linuxtoday, etc?
<jamest> jcater has a release blurb for the site done
<jamest> this !@#!@# release took 3 weeks to put together
<jamest> and enough crap changed in that time to justify calling it a whole new release :)
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<jcater> yes
<jcater> designer basically underwent a 1/3 rewrite
<jcater> in the last 3 days :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<jamest> :)
Action: ajmitch bows in awe
<jamest> we added setup.exe support to both products
Action: jcater bows from aching joints from sitting in this darn chair too long
<jamest> lol
<jamest> so anyone trying it out?
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<jamest> hi
<Mr_You> I downloaded 0.1.0pre.c yesterday looks good
<Mr_You> audacity.org and you are using the same installer I guess
<jamest> McMillan installer with inno distro maker
<ajmitch> i won't be able to try anything out until i sort out python on here
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<ajmitch> hi Maniac
<Maniac> howdee
<jamest> hey Maniac
<Maniac> howdee!
<jamest> we're testing final tarballs of forms and designer
<jamest> looking for victims
<jamest> if you're interested :)
<Maniac> heh, bedtime :)
<jamest> drat! :)
<Maniac> possibly tommorow :)
<Maniac> but, I'm running an xserver in windows connecting to an xclient in linux sitting on a virtual machine in vmwware running off of windows 2000 right now
<Maniac> neat eh?
<jamest> lol
<Maniac> connected via samba to my own harddrive
<Maniac> did i mention that vmware is kinda cool?
<Mr_You> what do you use vmware for Maniac?  windows?
<Maniac> Mr_You: actually i'm running linux inside windows 2000
<Mr_You> ahh
<Maniac> the only reason i keep windows is the silly games i play
<Maniac> which don't run well in linux
Nick change: Maniac -> Manaic-yawa
<Manaic-yawa> night all
<Mr_You> night
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<Mr_You> Ravi Shankar on Conan!!
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<derek> jamest you releasing tonight or tomorrow?
<jamest> me?
<derek> if tomorrow i can test windows tomorrow
<jamest> me!?!?
<jamest> :)
<jamest> tonight
<derek> ok nevermind
<derek> good luck on release
<jamest> jcater is finishing up the exes
<derek> ew still need a friggin release doc
<jamest> uploading as we speak
<jcater> derek: it's gonna be released, bugs and all!
<jcater> :)
<derek> w/ the steps
<jamest> derek: that's easy
<derek> so we make sure it gets broadcast and all
<jamest> 1) attempt release
<derek> i have the doc
<jamest> 2) spend 3 weeks fixing issues found in makeing release
<derek> just needs to be made official and polished up
<derek> you make rpms?
<derek> with setup.py?
<jamest> 3) get tired create BUGS files
<jamest> 4) release
<derek> if not that is VERY high on the next release
<jamest> no rpms
<derek> why no rpms
<jcater> hey, give us a break
<derek> should just be a 
<jamest> dude
<jcater> we perfected Win install :)
<derek>  ./setup.py build --rpm or something
<ajmitch> rpms aren't essential, debs are
<jamest> we've been at this all nite
<derek> yes the win install is nice
<Mr_You> BUGS or ERRATA?
<Mr_You> are they the same?
<jcater> all nite? you mean all night for the last 3 weeks
Action: Mr_You is big fan of ERRATA
<derek> note i said VERY high on NEXT release :)
<Mr_You> yeah heh
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<jamest> rpm builds failt
<jamest> fail
<jamest> at least on woody
<jcater> yip
<jcater> on everything
<jcater> has to do with out custom install_scripts stuff
<jamest> you tried on redhat?
<jcater> out=our
<jcater> I looked at last week
<derek> yip
<jamest> ah
<jamest> joy
<derek> i just tried
<derek> it fails
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/gnuef$ ./setup.py bdist_rpm
<derek> running bdist_rpm
<derek> creating build
<derek> creating build/bdist.linux-i686
<derek> creating build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm
<derek> creating build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/SOURCES
<derek> creating build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/SPECS
<derek> creating build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/BUILD
<derek> creating build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/RPMS
<jamest> gotta love distutils
<derek> creating build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/SRPMS
<derek> writing 'build/bdist.linux-i686/rpm/SPECS/GNUe-Forms.spec'
<derek> running sdist
<derek> error: .cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFObjects/.#GFDataSource.py: No such file or directory
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/gnuef$ 
<jamest> they claim to be for apps until you use them for apps
<jamest> then they claim to target modules
<jamest> sigh
<derek> is inno installer xplatform?
<jamest> derek: that is a cvs error
<jamest> you need to remove all files that start with # or .# from your dir tree
<jamest> cvs cruft
<derek> sigh
<jamest> no, inno is win32
<jamest> however mcmillan can do at least linux setup.sh 
<jcater> damn
<jcater> something's wrong w/my network
<jamest> derek: you have any test machines there
<jamest> the admin's on crack i suspect
<jcater> something like that
<derek> jamest not really
<derek> not that are easy for me to play with
<derek> what you need tested?
<jamest> mcmillan is linux only
<jamest> for standalones
<jamest> :(
<jamest> the tarballs :)
<jamest> and the exes
<Mr_You> anyone done any breathing techniques?
<derek> we have been working iwth jamest
<jamest> i practice breathing in and then out alot
<derek> ex:
<derek> jaemst breathe...slower...put the 200lb sun server down... breathe... you really dont want to smash the lusers head in... you are just saying that in an 'angry moment'... breathe
--- Wed Nov 21 2001