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Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-90.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201076.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. good morning, +o' err, jamest Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by jamest!~jamest@fh-dialup-201076.flinthills.com: www.gnuenterprise.org :) had to op to make a more meaningfull topic lol ra3vat (~ds@195.239.66.33) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.33) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds ra3vat (~ds@195.239.66.42) joined #gnuenterprise. alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. colonel (~arun@202.88.232.184) joined #gnuenterprise. is yesterday's irc log worth reading? (113 kB) some of the meeting w/ the differnt projects is in there towards the end and chilly has a log of the stuff that happend in different channel other than that I'm blanking on what was discussed jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. heh somebody playing with bigbrother? um no not at all :) jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. lots of _ opn acting up again? or everyone just have crappy connections today wth: i want to be trendy Nick change: dneighbo -> dneighbo_ Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater Action: jcater slaps dneighbo_ with a smelly trouyt Action: jcater slaps dneighbo_ with a smelly trout ok ok Action: jcater slaps bigbrother with a smelly trout Nick change: dneighbo_ -> dneighbo i have an ugly report to write today that i dont want to i want to gnue :( calc test here um, im REALLY glad im not jamest today I'm always glad I'm not jamest rofl jcater: gud poynt :) jamest you realize you woudl get a a LOT of sympathy from jcater and i when you come back you guys are just jeallous cause the voices don't keep you company like they do me and tell use you have like an ENG 301 exam we know you are have a chance in calc ENG 301 on the other hand.... tell me about it however I was never good at spelling and the spellcheckers made me even lazier it's not my fault irc doesn't have a spellchecker jamest: you were never good with spelling? I don't buy that i think jamest is saving ENG101 - 500 for same semester then is going to try the 'dead man on campus' approach and hope to get all A's cause his roomate dies um, that'd be my wife and i wouldn't trade her ever for a good grade in eng well i figure fake her death and get teh insurance money too how many women would have done the SF trip lots and hung out all week with you losers? lots just not many would have lasted past day 1 :) as long as you paid them lol :) jcater: who is to say he didnt pay lindsay? i have to go to class now (we get a review of the goats that are about to be unleashed upon us) rofl happy herding jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater ok, now back to work rofl dneighbo: here's an article from a local paper you might like I had it scanned in: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/southern-alert.jpg colonel (arun@202.88.232.184) left irc: "[x]chat" alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting" Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater looking now roflmao nothing like a 30 aut 6 to help binLaden find allah :) :) i cant believe they printed that in the paper that is so politically incorrect its great :) it's a small town paper a fairly controlled readership :) Action: dneighbo might have to subscribe to that one :) just for my daily laugh ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.42) left irc: "Client Exiting" arghhhhhhhhh jcater/jamest when one of you gets back let me know ): :) hey does phpnuke use mysql/ wget kicks arse :) Action: dneighbo runs down to krispy kreme and gets a dozen glazed hot off the belt Action: dneighbo starts waving htem in #gnuenterprise letting the sugar smell engulf the channel sniff [12:14] Last message repeated 1 time(s). phpnuke uses mysql (newer versions can use different dbs) if we update to 5.3 then I hope to switch to postgresql bbi1h crap you really gone? Action: dneighbo faxes a picture of jcater to 901-795-2301 (KK @ 6255 Winchester Road) and asks if they have seen this suspect in the past 2 hours dang, they are reporting last sighting of suspect over 12 hours ago (sigh) though they assure me it has never been more than 24 hour lapse in visit times.... wazzup? dneighbo: ?? oh, never mind.. I get it :) ok Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds migus_ (~migus@migus.eu.org) joined #gnuenterprise. hello Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. hi jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "later" jcater (~jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (~ds@195.239.64.38) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.38) got netsplit. 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Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-90.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) got lost in the net-split. Rafterman_ (tim@lister.sesgroup.net) got lost in the net-split. dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) got lost in the net-split. jcater (~jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) got lost in the net-split. ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-3-ip210.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. mcb30 (~mcb30@pc1-papw2-0-cust211.cam.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (~ds@195.239.64.38) joined #gnuenterprise. mcb30 (mcb30@pc1-papw2-0-cust211.cam.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-90.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. bigbrother joined #gnuenterprise. hoho... welcome back, bigbrother in fact, we aren't too large as for now (since we have started onlythis summer), and the most of participant are russians, except one french developer :) we have done this with several groups like (Kontor, gnucash, etc) where architecture approach was too different to work as single unit just Enterprise stuff is such a HUGE task the more people working together rather than apart the better just curious how your approach is massively different yes, you are right, they differs and i have disagreements with GNUe architecture. But I think that it will be great to make our system interoperable i want to hear the disagreements Yurik: what general disagreements do you have? as we unlike a LOT of projects we are open to suggrestions :) dont think we know it all but, of course, somewhere we are mostly identical :) it very well could be you are seeing a huge hole in our approach that we are missing in which case it makes sense to close the hole and work together Ok. Let's start listing my disagreements (may be somewhere I'm incorrect, so correct me :) Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. however it could be we generally disagree on approach and it only makes sense to interoperate and not collaborate directly Yurik: I see y'all are using Python that's a good start :) whats the topic? 1. (Political) You are a GNU project, am I right? I like GNU GPL or any other open source one (such as BSD-like), but I'm not a fanatic of the free software. I WANT to publish E/AS source under GPL or something like this terms, but it is only license, as for me. [Sorry for my English :)] So, I don't want to join GNU (well, with this project) Action: Mr_You is not a fanatic of Free Software either. Yurik: we have plenty of non-fanatic developers ;-) :) im intersted in the other disagreements as the first one sounds kind of weak Mr_You :) if you said you HATED the GPL adn wanted BSD so you could do commerical work i woudl 100% agree that GNUe just isnt for you m00seT (~sadend@194-78-167-235.pro.turboline.skynet.be) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo well, the list is not finished :) hi m00seT ;-) Action: m00seT slaps dneighbo around a bit with a large trout lol Action: m00seT slaps jamest around a bit with a large trout dneighbo i haven't said that I HATE GPL :) even more, I like GPL :) just passing by not choosing GNU supported software because of GNU fanatics doesn't sond like a good reason to me who cares if it works if I lived by that I wouldn't read /. for the headlines cause the responses are so bad uggh I'm interupting something Action: Mr_You shutsup. but if its just GNU affliation, i dont see that as a problem, but lets here the rest of the list :) 2. We are going (well, accoring to our initial ideas) to build the system using Python from the scratch, using C elsewhere where we need performance (or something else that requires C) Yurik: except for geas, we are a pure python implementation it may sound strange, but it is so. We want to build a highly component system from the very start. Yurik that is pretty much our approach 2.1. Our model is not an application server. We imagine the hole system is a dynamic distributed object database. you of course are still free to do as you like but i still am not seeing anything that prevents us from working together will you use relational data storage? 2.x. will be continued further... if so then you are talking the same thing when we say application server who makes a decent "dynamic distributed object database"? 3. We would like to build forms (UI) in another manner. We would like to use UIML m00seT (sadend@194-78-167-235.pro.turboline.skynet.be) left irc: we are simply saying 'distributed object database that stores data in relational tables" UIML? if you mean UML then we will be doing this No, I mean UIML, not UML. as we can go from dia XML to forms with XSLT we are saying 'distributed object database' but do not say that it is stored in relational table. Yes, it is a good storage, but we don't want to limit OD storage classes. ok so you are going ot write an object database? Yurik: our Forms package is 1) pure python and 2) is UI independent, so a UIML driver could be written... or you have found a free object database? techincally OD can be stored anywhere - RDBMS, DBM, memory, plain disk partition - anywhere you could make a UIML driver Yurik then you are same as us we can store anywhere dneighbo yes, we are going. Some kind of it. we just started with relational Yurik: GNUe has requirements for curses, GUI, and Web interfaces from one file that defines the interface (XML) yes... there's nothing in our code tying us to relational databases and UIML could be added to that list that Mr_You provided :) Yurik: one issue you have to keep in mind is who actually owns the project.. as this person or group can decide to take your work an make non-GPL releases whenever they wish that is a big problem with UIML with a GNU project, this should never happen there are no free tools for UIML... all commercial IIRC then, I don't like the idea of GCD, IMHO (only IMHO!) The idea? or just the implementation? jcater we're developing UIML software for python right now. jcater both jcater :) jcater in fact, I don't like the idea of that object should be defined to access it. I like the idea that object is a dynamic entity. yes, `course, it is not too simple to specify and implement... but I suppose that it costs this price. or performance... Yurik: honestly, I think you are judging our whole project based on a simple aspect of it... you might want to look at the tools and our abstraction layers BTW, curios item. X. Competitor is a good thing :-) I think there will be tremendous overlap here and yes, competition is always a good thing BUT we both could work toward a common goal When you came in, you mentioned that we should be compatabke compatible in what regards were you thinking? jcater that was idea, right. jcater that was my idea, right. in what areas? jcater i don't forgot it. it will be great to make systems interoperable. Something like "bridge" It sounds like you guys are doing an Enterprise Java Beans type of system in Python is that a fair statement? jcater as I can understand our object models differs, so we (probably) can't use common methods to access these objects. But the ability to use both systems will be very useful. Of course, if the second (E/AS) will succeed :) jcater we had an idea to make EJB for python :) but not. err, maybe I said that wrong... It seems like your target audience would be the same as EJB, but not that you were reimplementing EJB jcater really, I imagine dynamic object database as it can be compared (in common object ideas) with Sun Self every object can be inherited from another (even running one) There is no "class" notion. Only objects. I suppose you know and understand me :) I think I get it... what kind of security will you have with a completely dynamic object notation? notation=database it is not too easy to implement in Python, `course (but I suppose, possible). If we'll fail, we'll choose another one Honestly, I've worked in python A LOT and I imagine it' it will be the most helpful w/dynamic objects as we have a lot of dynamic object stuff in our abstraction routines especially our RPC-abstraction code jcater security? what type of security do you mean? I mean, security that prevents Sam from changing his supervisor Jim's salary. jcater role-based + ACL, I suppose or that keeps a data entry clerk from changing the main headquarter's address I was just wondering how this would work in a non-static (== dynamic) system Yurik: RBAC has a lot of interest btw, I'm not criticising... I'm generally interested generally=genuinely jcater yes, you are right, it is not simple for dynamic system. but we are on the way to solve it completely. we haven't specified it yet - the ideas are only in our brains at this moment. ok that will be a big deal with an enterprise-class system, though in fact, imagine such system as a tree of prototypes. when I imagine it as a tree of prototypes, the security politic looks much more easier. do you follow me? you understand? well, I'm a little lost on the tree of prototypes and how this fundamentally is different than our GCD's wouldn't a prototype be like a gfd object def? gfd = gcd No, you aren't right. Imaging usual object-oriented model (such as C++, p.e.). There we have class and object notions, right? ok um, i'm not following i thought you said no class notion Action: jamest is confused class is a "blank" instance of it, ok? class is a "blank" instance of itself, ok? i need to study anyway, forgive my jumping in in the middle and object is a instance of class that have some state (data, p.e.). another model is that there is NO class, since class can be represented as a "blank" object (with no state) and we allow to object be inherited from another one See, here is a simple example: Let's define object Object. It will have, say 'init' method. and 'abc' attribute, p.e. Then, we create File object that is inherited from Object and adding, say, 'content' attribute and 'open' and 'close' methods. Then, (imagine that File is a regular class) when we need the concrete File instance, we're creating object myFile that is inherited from File. and then we're saying myFile.open('myfile') than, for some needs we can create an object that is inherited from myFile. . dneighbo: you alive in here? Of course, example is very simple and have nothing common with reallife (just the first idea how to explain) but I hope now you understand. jcater do you understand now? honestly, not entirely have you looked at Pyro? as they are a pure python distributed object system yes, I looked at Pyro. I don't like it./ it sounds as though you are reimplementing that but only adding a database backend or PyDO? jcater what moment you don't understand? I looked both at Pyro and PyDO. They aren't the system that I've described. I agree to a certain extent on one level, you have just described to me a dynamic distributed object system which they can be the basis of So, should I explain something more detailed? Where do business rules fit into a distributed object system? crap was in meeting will read backlogs i am alive ToyMan jcater sorry, I don't understand your question :-( Please try to ask me using simple English :)) ah, good ok you are describing two levels here... reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.221) joined #gnuenterprise. could i get some help getting my postgres server up and running? 1. a distributed object system 2. an enterprise data system with a user interface, etc but I'm not seeing where 1 and 2 meet I'm not sure what I'm asking :) oh. thats simple, I suppose. At first, in simple case this system behaves as a usual object-oriented system. Second, it is very useful to make business object branched (for example, for versions, or something else) Second, it is very useful to make business objects branched (for example, for versions, or something else) Thus, using first, #1 meets #2 as in any other comparable OO system. Using second, #1 meets #2 as a featured engine that allows to make system more hierarchical and provides features like I've described (object branching) Do you follow me? ToyMan yes :) ask away several people in here can help :) do you have examples of how a system like this might be written? jamest you around? i actually ahve a postgres question myself :) jcater do you mean implemented examples? not really but ask anyway dneighbo why do i get this? dneighbo@ash:~$ psql -U dcl-www dcl psql: Peer authentication failed for user 'dcl-www' Yurik: or, just your thoughts on paper.. like "this is what a system might look like" dneighbo@ash:~$ psql -U dcl-www dcl when dcl-ww is a user in pg_users? jcater. oh, ok. dcl-www | 1006 | f | f | f | f | ******** | jcater Imagine that you have a business object 'MailMessage'. When we are working with specific mail message, we are creating myMessage object that is inherited from MailMessage. ok? ok, first ques..how do I start up the server? RTFM ;-) there's a shell script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d called 010.pqsql.sh doh you use bsd i forgot which using the command sh ./010.pqsql.sh start should start it... in linux you do /etc/rc.d/postgresql start or such jcater Then, you (for example) need to replicate it to work on it at home. You create myMessageForHome that is inherited from myMessage. You have to similar objects. One is for your workstation, another for you home computer :) I think it tells you how to start it after make install but: jcater you use bsd right? jcater Then, you (for example) need to replicate it to work on it at home. You create myMessageForHome that is inherited from myMessage. You have two similar objects. One is for your workstation, another for you home computer :) su postgres /usr/local/pgsql/bin/pg_ctl -D /usr/local/pgsql/data -o "-i" start -D it's been a little while, but yes jcater Then, you (for example) need to replicate it to work on it at home. You create myMessageForHome that is inherited from myMessage. You have two similar objects. One is for your workstation, another for your home computer :) Yurik: does E/AS have an IRC channel? Mr_You: can't su to postgres until server is started, right? jcater yes, we have. there, at #eas maybe I should join there so we don't tie up this channel jcater yes, we have. here, at #eas toyman: no.. su changes to the postgres user toyman: that command runs the pg_ctl command as the user postgres you have to do su then hmm. maybe the install was foobar, that should have been created during the compile? su postgres toyman: huh? toyman: what should have been created? user postgres probably not, usually done manually huh ive never had to manually create it unless its a package you should be able to do su then not the case in my debian install su postgres one sec..wife calls perhaps bsd is different but i find it odd that you would hve to manually create this compiling and installing from source usually doesn't do automagic install of user.. a package can do anything I think he said he is using debian no, used to use debian now on bsd installed thru ports can you do su then su postgres ? no hmm I would probably install from source.. I can't recall if source defaults to /usr/local/pgsql or not if not what error message does it give you one sec... jcater did you ever install postgres on bsd? Action: dneighbo needs a bsd install derek: ports install and source install two different things yes, a year or so ago :( Action: jcater is reading back log viking667 (viking@202-180-111-205.nas3.chc.attica.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. hi viking667 sometimes I like the ports solutions, but a lot of times I don't cause most source code compiles no problem gnuenterprise.org is apparently not up - any ideas? I'm a newbie and wanted to do some back-reading chillywilly_ (danielb@d130.as9.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) works for me lemme check viking667 it was down about 30 minutes to an hour ago but should be up now Hmmmm. Action: viking667 tries another host chillywilly_ (~danielb@d180.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr_You: not like ports? they've always worked great for me, this is first time i've seen anything strange, works for me viking667: not a problem with your isp? toyman: yeah, but you're not always getting the latest source code, and I rarely install the required /usr/ports files ajmitch: might be... I'm just checking that ave now viking667: i'm on ihug here, it works well, not installing the ports files would def. be a hindrance.. ports is pretty up to date, though not always viking667: the ip for www.gnuenterprise.org is 64.39.200.253 see if that works instead of www.gnuenterprise.org I'm trying from slingshot and caverock, both of which have failed hmm ah wait Mmmm akay - thanks . could be DNS getting its' knickers in a knot dneighbo: the error i'm getting is: bucky# su postgres su: unknown login: postgres hmmm # adduser viking667: heh viking667: you're in christchurch? i think our dns server may be down also I don't like not being able to choose the install directory if I would like Yup - that did the trick - thanks... nickr (nick@e-172-IP26.empnet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. can you su pgsql ? Yup - ChCh here yup ok, dunedin here su pqsql worked I wonder why its "pqsql" and not pgsql whoops pgsql oh tired fingers ;) pgsql worked cause jcater is ai and knows everything, neural network for data exchange seems to help : so what's next? I prefer installing optional software in /usr/local or /opt try the command that Mr_You gave earler, only use pgsql instead of postgres su hmm. sort of defeats the whole file structure of bsd though.. su pgsql then at the prompt do toyman: hows that? createuser and create a user and FreeBSD doesn't have createuser ;-) and pgsql can't addusers ;-) but pgsql does ahh psql: connectDBStart() -- connect() failed: No such file or directory Is the postmaster running locally and accepting connections on Unix socket '/tmp/.s.PGSQL.5432' Toyman: /opt is common on solaris and HP.. /usr/local is pretty universal rofl, sorry its funny as im having similar issues on ash :) one of the things I love about bsd is the *very* strict file system with postgres /usr/local, yes, /opt, no toyman: what do you mean? toyman: yeah I was refering to other OSs BSD fs is no different than any other fs ok ToyMan where are you sitting at this oint again? you need to start postgres right? well, maybe i'm using the wrong term, by fs, i mean the directory structure and that IS dif you have established that you can now su as pgsql right? logged in as pgsql, can't create new user did you run that 010.pgsql.sh script ? but you dont have ability to use psql because either postgres isnt started or you conf file is hosed toyman: mainly has a different etc dir. but most OSs follow either BSD or SysV or some hybrid of the two run the start script then do the su su pgsql then do the createuser dneighbo: yes, I did that... Action: Mr_You is a big fan of RTFM ;-) i like to build my own OS ok so postgres is started? bucky# ps ax | grep pgsql nada so shell script isn't working ps ax|grep postmaster ps -ax |grep postgres er or what jcater said Mr_You: I started in RH, switched to Deb, and then to fbsd, they all had several diffs it will be postmaster or pgsql jcater: nada Toyman: mainly the etc dir.. most everything else is pretty similar toyman then script didnt work did you get an error message with the script? nope..just..one sec i run bucky# sh ./010.pgsql.sh start and it returns: pgsqlbucky# hit return and i'm back to the root prompt dneighbo: we're on the same page ;) ok, lemme /join #postgresql and ask around ooh, hope they're better than #python or #debian once i get the damn server up, i'll come back for more :) hmmmm.... seems the IRC logs could do with some tidying up Also, has anyone thought of targzipping them? toyman: go RTFM well, i have been looking...not much bsd specifics there toyman: umm.. you installed a port.. the only difference might be the default dir for installation, everything else should be the same i'm checking the startup script now for clues... and the port normally will just install the software, it won't setup your data directory, etc.. AFAIK viking667 we have a script to convert the log to html im working on putting it on cron job then will implement htdig so that the logs will be 'searchable' i have considered zipping them by month as well so people can download them in mass is this what you speak of? or you thinking something more specific? dsmith (~dsmith@216.214.12.171) joined #gnuenterprise. I'm thinking perhaps something I did - grep -v out the not useful info, like joins, parts etc... I even made a script for that ppl, can you say, how can I get python object class? object.__class__? hi dsmith Greetn's viking667 yes the html formatted version can fix things like that dneighbo: ?? you said grep things 'out' True... the html format cleans up things and could be made to take such things out Can I suggest things or even better, paste the rules I use in my own channel? http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/17Nov2001.html is a sample it doesnt have those things removed but it woudl be easy to make them removed Yurik: you trying to get the name of the class, or the original class instance jcater class instance at first ick that'll be some fun hacking Hmm.. Anyone here know how to get address book/calendar stuff in/out of evolution with python? jcater I need it at the level of C extension how were you wanting to do it? for dsmith i think they support vcard and vcalendar and there are some python classes for that iirc Yurik: sorry... I've never used python at the C level before (never needed to :) jcater :) if you want native support you probably would have to make python wrappers for libcamel and libgal dneighbo: I hear all this stuff about corba and gnome scripting. or whatever the are That was the rules I used - a bit simplistic Rafterman_ (tim@lister.sesgroup.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ooops im sorry at this stage in life im anti gnome's way of thinking :) its usually overtly complex bzcat $1.bz2 | grep -v "Nick change" | grep -v "joined #whiskey" | grep -v "left irc" | grep -v "left #whiskey" | grep -v split | grep -v "ode change" | less There... substitute #whiskey and you'd have something more viking667: why not just change your bot to not log those levels of messages? dneighbo: I dont do much gooey stuff myself. It's more for my boss. were you wanting to do it with gnue? I use them to analyse arrival/departure/lurk stats i am interested in making gnue and some other toys ahve this functionality but currently that hasnt been our focus as of yet dneighbo: Right now, evolution can import stuff, but not export. irc.gnome.org #evolution could probably answer some of your questions err...what IS evolution, anyways? Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly dsmith i think libgal/libcamel or something are what they use to get at the data you woudl probably need to wrapper whatever access library they use dneighbo: Hmm. thanks. i imagine if python versions dont exist some swig magic could help you out dsmith you still here they store in db3 format which iirc is berkley derivative yes there is somethign called libdb3 Better still, I could have just grepped to include anything with < nick > reinhard (rm@62.47.45.221) left irc: "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est. -- Aurelius Augustinus" dsmith did you ask in #evolution how to do? as if you didnt i will as im curious as i have another project im toying with where this woudl be useful to me dneighbo: Yes. what was the answer? bonobo/corba?? or libdb3 with python bindings or screw off :) dneighbo: Said that: "jamesh is the guy you want to talk to" james henstridge? of dia fame? and: you could probably do it via corba or different james? Action: dsmith asks on #evolution gnome is overly complex? j. henstridge knows his shit :) is this what you believe masta? look at the projects he is involved with or leads i think that him and michael meeks are probably two of the powerhouses of gnome currently yep for those that dont know james h is python stud (similar to jcater) lets see: gnome-python gnorpm dia hmm.. we should do lunch pyGTK :) `Hmmm. How do I grep for something at a particular char position on the line? Like, say, position 9? libglade gnome-vnc and the list goes on :) viking667: can you do a "grep '^........MyString' " jcater: yes you should, too bad he is in AU Ah. I'll try that... dneighbo: more of a reason to do lunch! :) on him right :) in AU bbiaf : meeting jcater: yup! That did what I wanted - strips out actions too, unfortunately... and is there object attribute that contain object name (not class name!)? str(Object) ?? jcater str(Object) may be overloaded... Object.__repr__ sorry, that's repr(Object) thanks whew! ok, got the postmaster running and i've su'd to pgsql turns out that (in fbsd install, at least) you have to run su -l pgsql -c initdb first... then the shell script works Ah! I've got grep doing what I wanted... so dneighbo, you still here? ToyMan: he ran to a quick meeting oh i suppose now i can do a creatuser ? now that postmaster is running? yes I would think so ok, created user stuq gave him rights to create db's and users so, how do I log in to the server? Eeeek. I have to go - I've less than 10% of swap left... that's bad? :) Time to kill processes heh, i had 3MB left yesterday morning this is with 270mb swap and 384mb ram `That's not good - once I bump up against the 2% mark, :I'd better release tasks quickly - new mm or not! I only have 32M main and 77Mb swap (I think) yeah, i'm serving up antoher X session off here for my other box, kde takes a fair bit has somebody here used Python/C ? ajmitch: you playing multiple prOn's back all at once? jcater: nah ah, lemme guess you're using gnome Action: jcater ducks ajmitch: how about playing off QII-a against UT opponents? ooops - QIII-A I'll not be back viking667 (viking@202-180-111-205.nas3.chc.attica.net.nz) left #gnuenterprise ("Rats. They caught me playing on the computer keyboard."). neilt (~neilt@dhcp64-134-54-175.chan.dca.wayport.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi neilt hello cw and all zaheer (~zaheer@host217-34-239-232.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #gnuenterprise. psql template1 to logon stu btw: my stupidity about forgetting the initdb you have to do that in rh & debian too iirc also you might want to create a db like createdb test or createdb dstoys or something so you have a 'sandbox' to play in yup, did that :) logged in and making sandcastles Action: chillywilly shovels sand down masta's pants sweet chillywilly hmm feels kind of good gotta go now, off to 3rd grade class meeting hey 1 day of pgsql and he is in 3rd grade not bad :) :) dneighbo: It looks like python-orbit might be wha I need yes python orbit is ok we use it here Rafterman_ (tim@lister.sesgroup.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds Rafterman_ (tim@lister.sesgroup.net) joined #gnuenterprise. how functional is reports? chillywilly: a little more functional that geas mmm.. did you read my status report on the home page? Action: Mr_You eats BBQ smoothered with Texas Pete. hehe I am talking in #gnome-db with rodrigo sigh why are you sighing? chillywilly may i ask what about? we went ROUNDS AND ROUNDS with them on reports there's just too much going on for me to do it all ODMG spec he just brought that up they want a report engine inside libGDA which is NOT acceptable at all that's why I'm sighing that and fact they insisted on dealing with gnome-print (implementation specific) totally ignorning our PRIMARY objectives in gnue I know th history so i assume the sigh is not this again :) i am all for working together I just wanted to as his opinion of the ODMG spec but at certain intersections you ahve to say our goals/philosphies dont match :) s/as/ask i.e. we can agree to disagree :) I'm not looking to work together just wanted to talk to someone in there he says he's the onyl one really working on gnome-db wonder why ;)? ehehehe 'cause I'm not there why else rofl you da man jc :) Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-90.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Remote closed the connection I should read geas code I don't feel like playing with this other fscking thing where's my man reinhard at? neilt: you know the parser code? new parser code of course Ok, so I have some random .idl file. How do I get at it with python-orbit (the people on #orbit-python are sleeping) The samples aren't very helpful to me. look at CORBA._load_idl('path to your idl file') dsmith: look at the geas python examples ;) jcater: thanks bigbrother joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly: in GNUe-Common-0.1.0.tar.gz ? dsmith: checkout gnue cvs dsmith: hang on... dsmith: it would have too be our latest release of geas s/too/to er, or it would... http://orbit-python.sault.org/docs/?chapter=dynamic_idl jcater: thanks no problem dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: "[BX] Tony the Tiger uses BitchX. Its Grrrrrrrrreat!" back did someone have a question? ummmm I am gonna read reinhard's parsing code for shits and giggles a ref is like a pointer to an object? usually depends, if the ref has a stripped shirt then its something different hehe I mean gcd syntax as he only points to an object in the case of an error gah! Action: dsmith reads stuff Action: ajmitch thinks neilt has been warped by this channel otherwise his hands are in his pocket I just want a straight answer Action: dsmith checks gnue out of cvs neilt: a reference in a gcd flie is like a pointer right? chillywilly: in java, yes, a reference is a pointer to an object. i imagine similar language is used for other things file mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. geas is standard C gotcha I mean it points to some object that is defined elsewhere or what? in another gcd a reference is a uid of another object Action: chillywilly forgot most of the gcd syntax that he nkew knew even ah, k it works like a reference, but its not an address, like we think of most references I know it just says, "this" object over there somewhere which is of the type but what if it's over here? instead of over there? really it says this uuid from the table x is it then that? jcater: that's fine too neilt: yes literally, but gcd ppl should not have to worry about how it actually is used when designing classes they don't have to know it really is a uid in a table chillywilly: exactly, but i thought you were looking at the internals that's just how it is mapped to the db well sorta...just asking about syntax cool what it means is it not clear in the docs?> where is the gcd format documeted? documented even http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/GNUeModuleGuide/main/x369.html doh! really I knew that damnit :) I have been away far too long i really wanted to say rtfm, but didn't hehe actually that is what I am going to do right now :) if any of it is not clear, let me know ok its been a while since we did any revisions in reinhard's new parser the reference and list syntax has changed its not in the docs yet yea.... I remember some of that form the list from mailing list how has it changed? maybe I should read the archives after I read this brb jcater_ (~jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). haha you bored jcater? Nick change: chillywilly -> jcater_ jcater_ (~danielb@d180.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left #gnuenterprise ("Philosophers and plow men, each must know his part, to sow a new mentality closer to the heart..."). Nick change: ajmitch -> andrewm jcater_ (~danielb@d180.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. :P hehe Nick change: andrewm -> ajmitch lol Nick change: jcater_ -> chillywilly chillywilly: that was for you, actually log off and back on ok chillywilly (~danielb@d180.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left #gnuenterprise ("Philosophers and plow men, each must know his part, to sow a new mentality closer to the heart..."). yay, he's gone, party time! chillywilly (~danielb@d180.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. :P bigbrother: chillywilly bigbrother: you need to do more useful stuff I need a bot to play with Action: jcater slaps bigbrother with a trout hmm chillywilly: apt in #debian is a lot of fun sure... they won't let anyone have him anymore though bot nazis! Is this right? >>> import CORBA >>> CORBA._load_idl("/usr/share/idl/addressbook.idl") >>> import Addressbook looks right of course, depending on what's in the idl file :) Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in ? ImportError: No module named Addressbook :( you need to listen to jc :P plus don't you need to get at the corba object through th orb? you can't just import the class because you loaded the idl chillywilly: actually, with ORBit, you can hmmm ok the _load_idl does a lot of stuff to your namespace in the background which I'm not sure I like :) but it does dsmith: are you sure Addressbook is defined in the IDL chillywilly: I know *nothing* and it's not, like, AddressBook, or such jcater: I am just used to seeing raw C orbit calls :P ooh icky not really jcater: Here is what's in the file: #include module GNOME { module Evolution { module Addressbook { hmm try this: import CORBA CORBA._libidl_args.append("-DGNOME_FACTORY_COMPILATION") from GNOME import Evolution then see if Evolution.Addressbook works hmmm I haven't actually used ORBit much, so I'm shooting from the hip now but they have a gnome example at that orbit-python page which is what that was based on :) chillywilly: hmmm? WhooHoo >>> import CORBA >>> CORBA._libidl_args.append("-DGNOME_FACTORY_COMPILATION") >>> from GNOME import Evolution >>> dir(Evolution.Addressbook) ['Book', 'BookFactory', 'BookListener', 'BookView', 'BookViewListener', 'CardCursor', '__doc__', '__name__'] yay jcater: nothign dsmith: you using pygnome too? dsmith: btw, if you are creating a program, I left something outta that last example...before the "from GNOME import Evolution", you should have 'CORBA._load_idl("/usr/share/idl/addressbook.idl")' :) chillywilly: Mmmm. python-gnome Debain you know debIAn it worked this time 'cause you already had that loaded :) if course ;) wouldn't have ot any other way jcater: thanks Ok, next level. How do I use the classes/methods in there? what are you trying to do? jcater: browse/read/write contact info. jcater: Suck it out of evolution and do stuff with it. hmm where's that idl from? I don't seem to have it Like I said, this is all new to me. dsmith: actually, me too :) we're both learning as we go jcater: evolution-dev hmm can you email that to me? that idl file? sure jcater at gnue dot org sent Gaaa. I should be home with my cable modem instead of this silly dialup. hmm i'd guess you'd do something like Ok, got to some more docs at orbit-python.sault.org/docs/ more reading to do. book = Evolution.Addressbook.Book() and something with book.getCursor() but am not sure their comments are kinda ambiguous in the IDL file :) If the .idl is the interface, it should be well commented/documented. *should* ;^) rdean (~rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ello rdean jcater and chillywilly: Thanks for the help. This stuff looks fun. I'm going home now. have fun bye hack on! heh dsmith (dsmith@216.214.12.171) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds ok, this may be a really lame question but it has been eons since I did database stuff...what does an index give you in a table? quicker lookups basically, it hashes the fields you index into a smaller table how so? with pointers back to the bigger table like if you have a table with employee#, name, address, ... and you index employee# so you select on the index and get a speed up right? indexes can greatly improve the performance of queries if you index oft-queried fields go ahead... just faxed senators and congressman and the prez again yea, I think I remember now about what? why is it that they'll tae faxes but most of them will not read email take DMCA, SSCA, Anti-Terrorism bill, recent executive order, black projects, for therapeutic cloning against reproductive cloning.. yeah I dunno chilly.. I emailed them before and got only a "broken" reply from helms we should just abolish snail mail altogether ;) oh, rock! the bsd ports collections are being consolidated into openprojects.org err openpackages.org sounds good chillywilly: there is actually a company that will scan in all your mail and you can read it online tryin to find URL paperlesspobox.com rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) got netsplit. rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: jcater is away: shopping rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) got netsplit. Rafterman_ (tim@lister.sesgroup.net) got netsplit. neilt (neilt@dhcp64-134-54-175.chan.dca.wayport.net) got netsplit. jcater (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) got netsplit. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-3-ip210.albany.thebiz.net) got netsplit. 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Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@d180.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dres_ (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) got netsplit. ajmitch (me@p45-max3.dun.ihug.co.nz) got netsplit. zaheer (zaheer@host217-34-239-232.in-addr.btopenworld.com) got netsplit. bigbrother joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@d180.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. -:#gnuenterprise- *** Notice -- TS for #gnuenterprise changed from 1006914680 to 1006914426 #gnuenterprise: mode change '-nt ' by carter.openprojects.net mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+nt ' by carter.openprojects.net gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~me@p45-max3.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. zaheer (~zaheer@host217-34-239-232.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by carter.openprojects.net nickr (nick@e-172-IP26.empnet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. fitzix (~fitzix@sdn-ar-003cthartP258.dialsprint.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hello ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-3-ip210.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. fitzix (fitzix@sdn-ar-003cthartP258.dialsprint.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-3-ip210.albany.thebiz.net) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). jcater (~jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dumb netsplit Maniac (~darryl@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Rafterman_ (tim@lister.sesgroup.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3640539.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3640539.sympatico.ca) left irc: Client Quit zaheer (zaheer@host217-34-239-232.in-addr.btopenworld.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) joined #gnuenterprise. arun (~arun@202.88.232.184) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-222.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "sleepy cater" derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ello masta Action: derek is away: giddyup heh alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. arun (arun@202.88.232.184) left irc: "Client Exiting" psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hi psu hi aj Oh look, the logger reckons it's still Tue you've got lots to summarise this week, i guess :) I assumed it cut off midnight as GMT or EST aj - Wed-Sun were very quiet so it all balances out yeah and i have hardly spoken up, thankfully ;) hey aj, this is good for a laugh I'm on a computer course today later at work oh? care to guess the course title? umm, wouldn't know Microsoft Front Page Basics ;-) argh! 1, Don't use it 2. See point 1 that should cover it :) I've been writing web pages in text editors for er at least 5 years go emacs! BUT this course is a pre-requisite for intranet author status so I gotta go To be fair, the hour when we discuss corporate standards, logging in as a web admin, etc is all stuff I need to know and don't at the moment ok fairly high noise to signal ratio, tho' ie, lotsa useless crap you don't want to have to learn ;) and i have hardly spoken up, thankfully ;) ah, you mean the KC :) see http://kt.zork.net/people/Andrew_Mitchell.html i never contribute much to GNUe discussion since i haven't contributed to the project itself :) these are all auto-generated by Zack's scripts from the source file I send him hardly said a thing... http://kt.zork.net/people/Derek_Neighbors.html jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201076.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Quoted 41 times in 4 weeks butthen he *is* da masta yes Action: ajmitch bows to derek hi jamest howdy masta talks a lot yip ;P hiya jamest and I too tired to make fun of him for it :( even more than I do heheh I should go to bed go sleep then & quite hassling the rest of us ;) cw is always good for a pithy quote to break up a drytechnical discussion yeah psu: why thank you I just speak my mind and I don't care who doesn't like it either life's too shrort to worry about that crap does anyone have a log of the Mon night discussions? or was it all done in the main #gnuenterprise channel in the end? couldn't see if it but I've only skim read Mon's log so far chillywilly does i think chillywilly (danielb@d180.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds i have i think please feel free to e-mail me whatever you have what about dcc? psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk ok i'll mail the #gnuproject log thanx sorry - if it's archived anywhere I can get itmyself as long as someone tells me the URL chillywilly (~danielb@d71.as8.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ack that is going to get annoying sent enjoy the read :) it'll be a nice reminder of myfirst KC er? when I didn't know what DCL, GEAS was and had to try and work it out from context http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-11-28-002-20-NW-GN RMS 18th yeah tim ney missed out...