[00:02] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> hi
<SachaS> congratulation to the 0.1 release
<chillywilly> well I can't take any credit for that
<chillywilly> I only have hacked geas
<chillywilly> ;)
<SachaS> i see, that gnue has put a lot of effort to the visualisation of the data so far.
<SachaS> -> gui's
Action: SachaS def. has to install gnue soon
<SachaS> i guess it will take some time to get packages implemented.
<SachaS> i wonder who will implement them. a) academics, b) businesses or c) others
<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> I wonder if I can get a friend of mine to implement academics
<Isomer> he's got a school running Access that he's not overly impressed with
<Isomer> moving them over to gnue could be an idea
<ajmitch> hi Isomer
<ajmitch> oh i wish the uni here would drop access
<SachaS> lets take the supply chain package. someone will start to implement it. The point is, that users need to feedback what is important in that package. 
<SachaS> companies should use the HR package and then improve it.
<SachaS> or tell what is missing, what is wrong, what is good etc.
<SachaS> it may take some time to get it working.
<SachaS> chillywilly: does geas support business processes in any way?
<chillywilly> supports business objects
<chillywilly> and methods in C and python
<chillywilly> we have designs and class descriptions for some packages
<chillywilly> but no forms or methods for them
<chillywilly> in gnue-config is where the package stuff is
<chillywilly> the gcd files
<chillywilly> GNUe Class Definition
<SachaS> So you might have a customer business object. and you might have methods (in the future) to access the street etc. is this right?
<chillywilly> yes
<chillywilly> it si all setup to allow for OO design of things
<chillywilly> the tools are that is
<chillywilly> geas handles storign of the objects too
<chillywilly> and caching
<SachaS> i might get involved with gnue next year. gnue and ebXML.
<chillywilly> it uses corba
<chillywilly> and exposes an interface to our client
<SachaS> ebXML is a framework to do electronic business.
<chillywilly> yea
<SachaS> so businesses design business processes first.
<SachaS> and within these business processes they define the flow of documents
<SachaS> documents can be like order request, offer, order, invoice etc.
<chillywilly> you basically just do your OO design and then you can make gfds, gcds, grds, and methods of the pbjects
<SachaS> and the content of the documents is also defined.
<SachaS> like quality, quantity and many more.
<chillywilly> (forms, class descriptions, report descriptions, and methods)
<chillywilly> SachaS: you read the module guide?
<chillywilly> go to http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/
<SachaS> chillywilly: havent read anything and should install gnue SOON
<chillywilly> there's a GNUe Module Guide there
<SachaS> ok. i will read into GNUE soon as well.
<chillywilly> k ;)
<SachaS> chillywilly: whats the command to download everything from the gnue.org cvs?
<chillywilly> cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@subversions.gnu.org:/cvs login
<chillywilly> cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@subversions.gnu.org:/cvs co gnue
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<chillywilly> hit enter when it prompts you for a passwd
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<SachaS> chillywilly: no such user anonymous in CVSROOT/passwd
<SachaS> cvs login: authorization failed: server subversions.gnu.org rejected access
<ajmitch> try anoncvs instead of anonymous
<chillywilly> yea
<SachaS> ajmitch: anoncvs works. thanks.
<chillywilly> I always forget which one it is
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> I am going to bed now
<chillywilly> night all
<SachaS> good night
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<reinhard> hello bigbrother
<reinhard> good to see you here :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> now you have to watch what you say again ;)
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<ajmitch> hi psu
<psu> hi aj
<ajmitch> what's up?
<psu> just a quick check in today
<ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> quiet here at the moment ;)
<ajmitch> bigbrother has been offline for awhile too (is that where you get logs from?)
<psu> americans are all asleep ;-)
<psu> nope - off the website
<ajmitch> not all...
<psu> or is that where the website gets them from?
<ajmitch> at least in my lug channel there are people awake ;)
<ajmitch> probably from bigbrother, i think it's same machine
<psu> gotta go now
<psu> said it was a short visit ;-)
<psu> bbl
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Action: SachaS starts to install gnue on debian testing
Action: SachaS got the source code via cvs
Action: SachaS first gets python2.2
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Action: SachaS :python2.2 needs libc6-dev 2.2.4-5
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Action: SachaS :10.6 MB download over 56K modem started :)
<ajmitch> SachaS: hah
<ajmitch> i'm getting 178MB over a 33.6k modem
<SachaS> ajmitech: i just started with a gnue installation, so i dont no what follows after python2.2
<ajmitch> well, i'm doing an upgrade of debian unstable ;)
<SachaS> ajmitech: i just changed from stable to testing. i got surprised by the volume of new realeases in testing. I guess unstable has even more volume.
<ajmitch> yes, unstable has a lot
<SachaS> ajmitch you are from new zealand. are you in australia in the near future?
Action: SachaS is in Perth, Australia
<ajmitch> SachaS: i doubt i'll be over there anytime soon
<ajmitch> SachaS: i guessed you were in perth or close ;)
<SachaS> ajmitch: i want to get into gnuenterprise. can we chat here or in private?
<ajmitch> here, but i'm no GNUe hacker, i've just been around irc for awhile
<SachaS> ajmitch: same here. have you installed gnue?
<ajmitch> not lately
<ajmitch> by awhile, i mean i've been around here for a year or more ;)
<ajmitch> last time i tried using gnue forms they'd gone to python 2 or higher
<SachaS> ajmitch: i am around a couple weeks and just downloaded the source from cvs. 
<ajmitch> ok
<SachaS> ajmitch: are you a developper in another gnu project?
<ajmitch> SachaS: ah, not a gnu project, but i do development
<SachaS> ajmitch: are you doing development in an open source project or closed source?
<ajmitch> it's free software, but not currently residing anywhere but my hard drive & at my boss' place :)
<SachaS> ajmitch: ok. how are you involved in gnue?
<ajmitch> am friends with chillywilly, and am interested in using parts of gnue in a business situation 
<ajmitch> but i am mainly just a student who likes projects like this :)
<ajmitch> SachaS: btw, are you part of PLUG?
<SachaS> ajmitch: which parts of gnue are you interested in? PLUG. I am in the mailing list yes and I do go to the meetings yes.
<ajmitch> ah, i had a friend who went to their last meeting, he's in perth at the moment
<ajmitch> i'm interested mainly in forms & GEAS
<ajmitch> not sure just what is needed for what i am looking at (replacing a windows app that uses crufty stuff)
<ajmitch> because i don't know the details of the program
<ajmitch> i'm mainly just interested in helping gnue when i get the time
<SachaS> ajmitch: last meeting was at IBM with some free snaks and a talk about what IBM is doing with Linux
<ajmitch> SachaS: hehe, sounds just like our last LUG meeting here
<ajmitch> we had a guy from IBM do a demo on what they are doing w.r.t linux
<SachaS> ajmitch: free snacks and free beer at IBM. The guy showed a linux on an IBM mainframe :) Unfortunately I had to leave early. I think others wanted to compile a kernel under it to check the speed.
<ajmitch> we only had a presentation, our LUG is rather small
<ajmitch> what are you wanting to use GNUe for?
<SachaS> ajmitch: i am interested in electronic business and do a masters by thesis in computer science next year
<ajmitch> ok
<SachaS> ajmitch: ebXML.org has an framework for doing electronic business.
<ajmitch> i am doing 2nd year computer science next year
<SachaS> ajmitch: i want the gnue to talk with other gnue systems within this ebXML framwork.
<SachaS> ajmitch: ride on.
<ajmitch> hopefully will get into the honours programme here
Action: SachaS gets python2.2-xmlbase
Action: SachaS gets libwxgtk2.2-python
<SachaS> ajmitch: how did you use geas or the forms for the business project?
<ajmitch> SachaS: i haven't yet used gnue for anything 
<ajmitch> SachaS: i said i was looking at using it
<SachaS> ajmitch: ok.
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Action: SachaS compiles postgresql --with-python
<neilt> morning all
<reinhard> morning neilt
<reinhard> i think it won't be long till you get up before me ;)
<neilt> hehe, could not sleep
<neilt> might as well work
<ajmitch> hi neilt, reinhard
<ajmitch> didn't realise you were around reinhard :)
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Action: SachaS stops compilation of postgresql and apt-gets postgresql 7.1.3-4 later
Action: SachaS apt-gets postgresql 7.1.3-4
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<neilt> reinhard: BTW i have geas working again, its really quite a chore to erase the hard drive and start over.
<reinhard> neilt: yeah i can imagine
<reinhard> especially when you change paths of where things are installed and such stuff
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Action: SachaS apt-gets python-pygresql
Action: SachaS apt-gets uuid-dev
Action: SachaS apt-gets orbit
<neilt> reinhard: yes and i did that also (change paths)
<neilt> i switched to using a distribution packages instead of compiling everything from source
<neilt> and of course it installed everything in new paths
Action: SachaS thinks he installed all dependencies and cds to the gnue directory
Action: SachaS enters python2.2 setup.py
<SachaS> I am installing gnue as root. after the comment that a symlink for the cvs version of the tools appears the setup aborts without a warning.
<SachaS> i guess thats ok. and change to the geas directory
<SachaS> ./configure in the geas directory errors with bash: ./configure: No such file or directory
<ajmitch> run autogen.sh in the geas dir
<SachaS> ta ajmitch: This could go into the README or INSTALL file
Action: SachaS apt-gets autoconf 2.13 m4
<ajmitch> SachaS: it's usual for a lot of projects that have code in cvs
<ajmitch> since everytime a Makefile.am for the configure.in changes, you have to run automake & autoconf
<SachaS> ajmitch: thanks i did not know that.
<SachaS> ajmitch: the autconf does create the configure file according the Makefile.am and configure.in?
<ajmitch> autogen.sh runs aclocal, automake, then autoconf
<ajmitch> and then runs the generated configure script
<neilt> SachaS: to run geas you will also need libuuid
<neilt> SachaS: sorry, isee you already go it
<SachaS> neilt: got uuid-dev installed.
<neilt> cool
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<neilt> later all, off to work
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Action: SachaS goes for dinner. Snapper fish from the indian ocean :) after dinner the installation continues
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<reinhard> hmmm seems like the Snapper fish has snapped SachaS ;)
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Action: SachaS apt-gets libtool
Action: SachaS calls ./autogen which calls ./configure. which produces error:configure: error: No database backend was found.  Please check that you have the proper client libraries installed
<SachaS>  
<reinhard> SachaS: you have postgresql installed?
Action: SachaS apt-gets postgresql-dev
<reinhard> ok :)
<jamest> man....
<jamest> i remember when the default answer to that type of questoin was you have mysql installed
<jamest> :)
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Action: SachaS is apt-getting with 340K/s or less :(
<reinhard> jbailey: fyi i looked at a few manuals from www.gnu.org/manual
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<reinhard> fileutils and bash is an outdated version there
<reinhard> and sh-utils is missing
<reinhard> if you want to fix it :)
<reinhard> i downloaded the package and printed from source so np for me
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<madlocke_> hi... was reading kc#4...
<jamest> hey madlocke_
<madlocke_> hi jamest...
<madlocke_> erm... shit... this time with _
<madlocke_> reinhard: you are here_
<madlocke_> ?
<reinhard> yep
<madlocke_> reinhard: you talked about xml for gcds...
<madlocke_> reinhard: was thinking some time ago about soap too...
<madlocke_> so xml not only for object definition... for transport too....
<reinhard> not sure if that was me
<reinhard> as basically i am _anti_ xml in gcd's
<madlocke_> erm... ;)
<madlocke_> have to read again... ;)
<madlocke_> reinhard: btw. why are you against it?
<madlocke_> speed_
<madlocke_> ?
<reinhard> no
<jamest> it's tough to write programs in xml
<jamest> less readable
<reinhard> i see two possible constellations
<reinhard> a. we have an uber druber designer and will create all object definitions graphically with uml and whatever
<reinhard> b. we will author our object definitions with our editor of choice in a text file
<reinhard> when we have reached a. i see no use for .gcd files anymore at all, object definitions will be in the database
<reinhard> until then we will do b. which means we need some easily-writeable format
<reinhard> w/o much overhead
<reinhard> and i still believe that
<reinhard>   char name<35>;
<reinhard> is much more readable than
<madlocke_> sure it is...
<reinhard>   <field type="char" length="35">
<reinhard> not even thinking about stuff like compound types and so on
<madlocke_> one problem is was reading time and again was the fact that corba has probs with firewalls
<madlocke_> or the other way around...
<jamest> that's up to the firewall admin
<reinhard> gcd reading is local
<reinhard> and has nothing to do with corba
<madlocke_> jamest: sure I is... but if you go to a company and they, hey change your security settings and our program will work...
<madlocke_> who will actually do it?
<madlocke_> they=say... arg...
<madlocke_> I=it
<madlocke_> what am I writing... 
<madlocke_> maybe need some coffee...
<jamest> :)
<jamest> i think it'll become a moot point soon enough
<madlocke_> :)
<jamest> IIRC jcater has GRPC (GNUe Comm) drivers for xml-rpc, pure sockets, and "something else I dont recall"
<jamest> if this flies then you _should_ be able to pick your poison with regard to transport
<madlocke_> :)
<jamest> on to the UI rewrite :)
<jamest> you still up for it?
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<jamest> I think I'd like to hammer out the needs over this week
<madlocke_> had to do some other work the last days... will continue work on msg handling...
<jamest> and start implementing over the weekend
<madlocke_> ok...
<jamest> i need to finish geas driver first though
<madlocke_> rest of week I have enough free time...
<jamest> i just wondered if you still planned to be actively involved
<jamest> as we need lots of changes over old system
<madlocke_> yes...
<jamest> can you say "scrap it"
<jamest> :)
<madlocke_> for gnuef... sure.. :)
<jamest> :)
<madlocke_> and if jcater doesn't nail me for this I would say it for designer too ;)
<jamest> lol
<jamest> the UI rewrite would heavily impact designer
<madlocke_> sure... I know...
<jamest> as it's driving a few of the needs
<madlocke_> at the moment I am using windows... have to change... I am back in 2 minutes...
<SachaS> Due to low download bandwith I have to postpone the compilation/installation of gnue. See ya tomorrow.
<jamest> ok
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<jamest> SachaS: ok
<jamest> low bandwidth?
<SachaS> downloading with 230K/s
<jamest> i get like 5K transfer rates with my 56k modem
<jamest> if I'm lucky
<jamest> anyway, see you tomorrow
<SachaS> 230B/s ;)
<reinhard> seeya SachaS
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<jamest> welcome back 
<madlocke> :)...hi
<madlocke> i lost my _ when changing os ;)
<madlocke> this proves that i am using right os now ;)
<jamest> :)
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<jcater> "calgon, take me away"
<madlocke> anyone can tell me how to use this jade with gcomm.sgml? it is always complaining about missing gcomm.dsl file
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<madlocke> will be back later the day...
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<dneighbo> hi neilt 
<dneighbo> thanks for doing some of the updates that alan has been sending :)
<dneighbo> i just changed accounting to financials but havent done anything else
<neilt> cool
<neilt> there is more to change for accounting -> fin
<neilt> we have all the specs
<neilt> then gnu faq
<neilt> and a bunch of other docs
<dneighbo> im toying with and will discuss with jamest jcater as well when they get back about just removing mainmenu
<neilt> so i assume you got all of those
<neilt> :)
<neilt> yes
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<neilt> i am here in VA but in a 10 foots square room
<dneighbo> yeah
<dneighbo> i just havent had time to get to them :(
<neilt> cant afford anything bigger
<dneighbo> hopefully tonight
<dneighbo> and make something different as the header than main menu
<neilt> cool
<dneighbo> and keep links to like FAQ, Screenshots etc
<neilt> i revised the gnu faq this morning, but noticed a lot of things that need to be cleaned up
<dneighbo> cool
<dneighbo> yeah i think its time to go on a documentation kick
<dneighbo> and get it all compiled into single place and make easy to find and in all formats
<dneighbo> etc etc
<dneighbo> and get links from site to it
<dneighbo> as well as actually review it :)
<dneighbo> and update it
Action: dneighbo is so ambitious and has no time :)
<dneighbo> figure if i can get the ball rolling next fellow hopping in wanting a task to do can have it :)
<neilt> cool
<dneighbo> trying to get dcl setup on ash
<neilt> so i can review all the new docs in the morning :)
<dneighbo> so we have a global todo list
<dneighbo> and bug tracker
<dneighbo> that is centralized
<dneighbo> powerful and (easy to use)
<dneighbo> with some 'email workflow' built into it as well
<dneighbo> almost be like a 'corporate project' done by volunteers :)
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<ra3vat> hello all
<dneighbo> hi
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<Yurik> re
<dneighbo> hi Yurik 
<Yurik> dneighbo hi
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<jamest> anyone here running the released win32 exe of gnuef
<dneighbo> um me me me
<dneighbo> well actually not the relesaed one
<dneighbo> the beta one
<dneighbo> it works ok
<dneighbo> but designer is jacked up :)
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<ajmitch> hi all
<Mr_You> hi
<Mr_You> time to bounce I guess
<Mr_You> (server going down I guess)
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<sklein> jcater:  you around?
<jcater> yes
<sklein> I may have a little bit of time to work on the menu system I proposed.
<jcater> oh, cool
<dneighbo> hey before you jump too much into it
<dneighbo> can you refresh us on the docs for it
<dneighbo> and can we get you and mdean in here at same time
<sklein> I looked at the latest designer and noticed that you seem to have dropped the XML-based menus.  Am I reading the code right?
<dneighbo> as some of the RBAC i think can pertain directly to this
<jcater> sklein: not sure what you mean
<jamest> jcater you using the released gnuef exe's on a win32 machine
<jamest> ?
<jcater> jamest: yes
<jamest> i've tried install on nt and 98 and it fails on both
<jcater> ick
<dneighbo> must be user error
<sklein> derek: what do you mean refresh on the docs?
<jcater> that'd be my guess
<dneighbo> btw: jamest i had on 98 and 95
<jcater> dneighbo: the docs were in the mail lists
<dneighbo> refresh : means give us the urls again or re send the emails :)
<jamest> dneighbo: can you try the released exes where you are at?
<dneighbo> yes
<dneighbo> i will trade you
<sklein> OK, will do (although I thought neilt posted them)
<jamest> for?
<dneighbo> postgres that uses tcp/ip for testing of win32 :)
<jcater> dneighbo: I pity you
<sklein> them = it
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<jcater> I pity you alot
<dneighbo> sklein if he posted no bother
<dneighbo> i just wish you could be here at same time as mdean :(
<sklein> jcater: I looked at the menu bar and it looks like the menus are all defined there
<dneighbo> brb i need to go test for jamest :)
<dneighbo> jamest you want me to use off website the release?
<jcater> sklein: that's just designer's native menus
<jcater> I don't think I've changed them
<sklein> that's what I meant.  I thought previous versions had the native menus defined in XML
<dneighbo> nope
<jamest> dneighbo: yes
<jamest> that's where I got the exe's
<sklein> jcater: maybe I need to go back and look more
<sklein> dneighbo:  the RBAC can interact with this
<sklein> jcater and jamest:  how do I install designer to /home/stan and not /usr/bin?
<dneighbo> sklein i know it can
<jamest> sklein: i would just do a devel install
<dneighbo> thats why i want you to be around when mdean is :)
<jamest> ./setup devel
<jamest> er
<jamest> ./setup.py devel
<jamest> then you can run right from the cvs tree
<sklein> jamest: I did and it started to ask me for the root password
<sklein> this was with 0.1.0
<sklein> The previous version installed to /home/stan
<sklein> I ctrl-D'ed out of the install
<sklein> for 0.1.0
<jamest> that's fine
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<jamest> the only thing root does is add a /usr/local/bin/gfdes 
<jamest> symlink to 
<jamest> cvs/designer/client/gfdes
<dneighbo> jamest: anything in particular you want me to test?
<jamest> dneighbo: does it work
<jamest> i get hourglass then nothing
<sklein> dneighbo:  what area is jdean working on? 
<dneighbo> jamest: got called to fire, just getting back to it
<dneighbo> mdean is doing DCL (diff proj workign with gnue)
<dneighbo> but he is needing RBAC there
<dneighbo> and we need it here
<dneighbo> the idea would be to try to use same system :)
<sklein> there is RBAC in SELinux
<sklein> The loadable kernel module stuff is likely to be in kernel 2.5
<sklein> and there are patches for current kernels
<dneighbo> hey now the icons have purdy icons :)
<dneighbo> before they didnt :)
<sklein> 2.5 will become production 2.6
<dneighbo> win95 works fine for me
<jamest> joy
<dneighbo> we can not do SELinux security
<dneighbo> its not an option
<dneighbo> as we cant demand SELinux as a prerequisite
<dneighbo> well we could, but it woudl seriously limit our ability to get in the door at most places :)
<sklein> My proposal was to use whatever the OS provides
<jamest> how many floors do you have to leap from to ensure a swift demise
<dneighbo> ask the sample form :)
<sklein> it's up to the user to get the RBAC OS
<dneighbo> confusious say 'man that leap from tall building, fall long ways'
<dneighbo> er
<dneighbo> 'man that leap from tall building, really go long way'
<sklein> and RBAC without an RBAC OS is vulnerable
<sklein> I think there is another way you can get RBAC for Linux
<sklein> You might be able to simulate it in NT with ACL's
<dneighbo> sigh ACL is yucky
<dneighbo> i prefer KISS to a degree
<dneighbo> as im not seeing this as being trying to 100% cracker proof for RBAC
<sklein> it may be yucky but that's what I think NT has
<dneighbo> yes NT has ACL
<dneighbo> NT is thus yuck y :)
<sklein> well, there is the NIST stuff
<dneighbo> but i digress, i swore i woudl stay out of security discussions
<dneighbo> and thusly i should
<dneighbo> as im one of these fellows that believes that you give up freedoms to be secure
<dneighbo> and a truly secure system is one that is not usable :)
<sklein> I have had some discussions with them in the past regarding the patent issues
<dneighbo> and so no MATTER what its a trade off
<dneighbo> if you make things usable you make them insecure
<dneighbo> being a business user vs a system admin i generally
<sklein> of course.  The only secure system is disconnected, encased in concrete and dropped in the ocean
<dneighbo> err on side of usability and will give up some security so i dont do well in discussions of security with the pros :)
<sklein> some dbms's offer RBAC, I think
<dneighbo> when i say RBAC im thinking at object level
<sklein> the user could use an RBAC DBMS
<dneighbo> the rights would be stored in the DB
<dneighbo> but anyhow i promised i would not clutter such discussions so i wont :)
<dneighbo> but i still think you should talk to mdean
<sklein> well, according to the NIST definitions, there are different levels and object may be an upper one
<dneighbo> unfortunately he is only around after work
<sklein> I'll look for him when I have a chance
<sklein> we can do RBAC easily at the form level by controlling access to gfd's
<sklein> for example
<dneighbo> i hoped to go one deeper than that
<dneighbo> that it would be method and property of an object
<dneighbo> so say you had a purchaseorder object
<dneighbo> you might have method
<dneighbo> purchaseorder.print
<dneighbo> purchaseorder.close
<jamest> ah, network installed of the exe's don't seem to work here
<jamest> hmmm
<dneighbo> etc etc
<jamest> they did at home
<dneighbo> print and close coudl be assigned to a role etc etc
<dneighbo> anyhow
<dneighbo> mdean was supposed to be assembling a doc on this
<sklein> dneighbo:  Let me think about that.  it might be possible with just file access control
<dneighbo> as we discussed via some emails
<dneighbo> i think that jcater had not relpied yet :)
<sklein> did he look at my security proposal?
<dneighbo> and he was waiting on thtat (hint hint hint)
<dneighbo> no he didnt
<dneighbo> but i will point him to it tonight if he is around
<jcater> sigh
<reinhard> night all
reinhard (rm@62.47.45.250) left irc: "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est.  -- Aurelius Augustinus"
<sklein> dneighbo:  I looked in neilt's directory and can't find the menu proposal.  I'll email it to you for posting.
<jcater> btw, I'd like to see sklein get started on menuing with or without access control, as menuing is desparately needed at some level
<sklein> BTW, has anyone heard from the Singapore folks on the licensing?  Maybe it's time to tickle them
<sklein> jcater:  I will try to spend a little time getting myself back up to speed.
<sklein> since I'm plagiarizing heavily from designer, that's why I asked about the designer install
<jcater> sklein: try to keep the menu structuring code separate from the actual wxMenu code
<jcater> so we can make this UI indedependent fairly easily
<sklein> jcater: one thing that gave me a fit earlier was the undocumented wxPython stuff that you had in the designer and common
<sklein> looks like you cleaned that up
<jcater> oooh... there should be no wxPython in common
<sklein> well then in designer
<jcater> I've tried to document as much as I could :)
<sklein> that was the older version anyway
<sklein> i'll look at the docs
<sklein> did you document the XML stuff also?
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<stan_> I don't know what's happening so I'll log off and look at the stuff.
<stan_> bye all
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Action: SachaS-sleep continues with the gnue installation
Nick change: SachaS-sleep -> SachaS
Action: SachaS enters ./configure --with-postgresql=/usr/include/postgresql
Action: dneighbo thinks SachaS is a brave fellow :)
Action: SachaS is in the geas directory
Action: SachaS apt-gets bison coz of yacc not found error
<SachaS> dneighbo: hi. finally I install gnue.
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<dneighbo> sigh 
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Action: SachaS apt-gets python2.2-dev
<dneighbo> i would suggest unless you are looking to use geas or develop it
<dneighbo> righ tnow
<dneighbo> i would focus only on forms/common/reports/designer
<SachaS> brb breakfast
<dneighbo> i say this mainly because app server doesnt work with the other tools yet
<jcater> mmm
<jcater> breakfast
<dneighbo> so its not highly useful
<dneighbo> unless you are wanting to develop on it
<dneighbo> or use it without the other tools
<dneighbo>  /dcc daily.krispy.kreme.glazed.tar.gz jcater
<jcater> mmm
<jcater> darn firewall.. I'm not seeing them yet :(
<dneighbo> i put you on their frequent buyer program
<dneighbo> and am having the points sent to my account
<dneighbo> you go to one on winchester or elvis blvd?
<dneighbo> the winchester location seemed to have heard of you before
<Mr_You> haha
<jcater> winchester
<jcater> elvis is not so nice a neighborhood
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<jcater> that, and way across town :)
<dneighbo> so you are telling me 'type of neighborhood' could prevent you from procuring a donut (not likely)
<jcater> lol
<jcater> actually, there's a local place just around the corner
<jcater> "Howard's Donuts"
<jcater> on mendenhall
<Mr_You> been about a month or more since I had a glazed oe
<Mr_You> one
<jcater> just in case you were wondering :)
<dneighbo> howard doesnt have a freq buyer program with points transferrable to AZ
<dneighbo> kk does
<Mr_You> I'm starting my Aikido classes Monday ;-)
<dneighbo> Mr_You need to roll off some donut poundage eh?
<dneighbo> i hate feeling sick
<Mr_You> and BBQ
<Mr_You> and Pizza
<dneighbo> mmmm did someone say pizza
Action: dneighbo now has hunger pains, thanks a lot mr you
<Mr_You> go eat soup
<Mr_You> or sushi
<dneighbo> i have sore throat, not delirium
<Mr_You> hope yas get better
Action: dneighbo is allergic to foods that might be 'healthy'
<dneighbo> my body has builtin health food dector, i try something and go.. yuck dont like it
<dneighbo> then i ask person, is that really healthy
<dneighbo> usually they say yes :)
<dneighbo> i try something and really like it, i go is that healthy, they usually say hell no
<dneighbo> example i never had vietnemese food before
<dneighbo> a vegetarian friend took me to a place and he was like its really healthly
<dneighbo> im like um i probably wont like it
<jcater> sigh
<dneighbo> so i peruse the menu and find some whacked out sounding thing
<dneighbo> and am like whats in it
<Mr_You> Thai food can kill you ;-)
<jcater> what debian package contains the font "fixed" ?????
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<Mr_You> seriously, the herbs made me sick one time
<dneighbo> they tell me meat and some hardcorde spice
<dneighbo> im like is there veggies in it, the guy says not really
<dneighbo> so i order it
<dneighbo> and LOVED it
<dneighbo> told friend whoa, this is pretty good for healthy food
<dneighbo> he looks at me and says dood what you are eating is worse for you than hamburger and fries :)
<dneighbo> im like, ah ha, knew there must be reason it was good :)
<Mr_You> habachi is tasting
<Mr_You> tasty
<dneighbo> i dont even remember what this was
<dneighbo> i think some kind of fried pork or something
<dneighbo> with sauce that curled my toes
<dneighbo> but it was yummy
<dneighbo> i find suprisingly i rather like most asian food
<dneighbo> i will even eat veggies in asian food
<dneighbo> as usually you cant 'taste them'
<Mr_You> bbiab
<jcater> argh!!!!!!!
<jcater> l86
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<dneighbo> hmm wonder where he had to groove too
<dneighbo> guess he had some shagging to do
<dneighbo> jamest disappeared
<dneighbo> wonder if either of them will be back
<dneighbo> for if Zdean will be back
<neilt> dneighbo: how come i get this message now
<neilt> -*ChanServ*- An access level of [10] is required for [OP] on #gnuenterprise
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<SachaS> Breakfast over and python-dev apt-getted
<SachaS> another make in geas directory
<dneighbo> um cause they upgraded
<dneighbo> jamest got it too
<dneighbo> for some reason they gave me and gnuebot 40
<dneighbo> i tried to give jamest 40 and it would let me 
<dneighbo> it would let me give 39
<dneighbo> enough to op him self
<dneighbo> i thought i fixed yours too
<dneighbo> guess not
<dneighbo> remind me when im at home and i will fix
Nick change: dneighbo -> derek
<SachaS> the same error: methods_python.c:59: Python.h: No such file or directory
<SachaS> i check ./configure again
<SachaS> Python.h is in /usr/include/python2.2/
<SachaS> dneighbo: when I check the Makefile in geas it looks for pyhton stuff under hardcoded pyhton1.5
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<chillywilly> gaaaaah
<chillywilly> I hate winblows!!!!
<chillywilly> my mom's winblows is fscked
<neilt> SachaS:  is use against python 2.1
<chillywilly> now I have to fix it for her
<neilt> s/is/i
<chillywilly> I think winblows is a 24/7 goat raping
<chillywilly> ;)
<neilt> and configure works fine
<SachaS> neilt: it cannot find Pyhton.h even it is in /usr/include/python2.2
<SachaS> neilt: make cannot find it.
<neilt> ahh yes
<neilt> i did ./autogen.sh with
<neilt> setenv LDFLAGS "-lssl -lreadline -L/sw/lib/python2.1/config -L/sw/lib"
<chillywilly> winblows == plz kill me now!!!
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<neilt> SachaS:  of course this is tcsh
<chillywilly> tis going to be a long night of data recovery
<neilt> not bash
<chillywilly> gonna have to setup samba so she can have a backup already
<chillywilly> on the server
<ajmitch> heh, damn
<chillywilly> she started it up this morning and she says the winblows logo cam up and it froze so she powered off
Action: ajmitch installs packages to attempt to use forms & designer
<chillywilly> which corrupted th boot secotr which runs this funky gateway go-back thing
Action: SachaS apt-gets tcsh
<neilt> SachaS:  dont do that
<chillywilly> csh is lame
<chillywilly> ;P
<neilt> do something like LDFLAGS="-L/sw/lib/python2.1/config"
<SachaS> neilt: ok.
<neilt> surly someone here can give you the right syntax
<ajmitch> use export, not setenv
<SachaS> ok. i used export and run autogen.h again. Then I check the Makefile and it still has PYTHON_xxx pointing to pyhton1.5
<neilt> but it will still work
<neilt> you dont have 1.5 installed do you?
<ajmitch> hmm, designer is sloow on here
<ajmitch> could be the other crap running tho
<SachaS> neilt: i think i have both 1.5 and 2.2. should i get rid of 1.5?
<neilt> hmmm, this is not really my strength
<SachaS> neilt: i have python1.5, python2.0 and python2.2 installed.
<derek> SachaS subscribes to the more is better philosphy :)
<ajmitch> damn, can't do postgres connections in designer, says a module is not found
Action: ajmitch will get better err mesg if this don't work :)
<neilt> SachaS: I dont know that I can help, you really jamest or reinhard
<chillywilly> did I happen to mention windows is complete and utter crap software?
<chillywilly> cause it is
<chillywilly> grrrrrrrr
<ajmitch> chillywilly: we know
<chillywilly> gotta bring down my server and ruin my uptime
<chillywilly> fscking winblows!!!
<chillywilly> bbiab
<chillywilly> (I hope)
<ajmitch> ah, i see
<ajmitch> DB000: gnue.common.GConnections.AdapterNotInstalled: Driver not installed: pygresql for PostgreSQL [No module named pg]
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<ajmitch> i have the package installed, but it's for python 1.5 ;)
<SachaS> ajmitch. which package?
<ajmitch> python-pygresql
<SachaS> which python version do you want to use? 2.1 or 2.2?
<ajmitch> 2.1
<neilt> I thought there was some talk about making the minimum requirement python 2.1
<derek> 2.x i think is currently the requirement
<neilt> not sure if that actually happened
<derek> though i had said if we are gonna require greater than 1.5.2 we really should require 2.1 or greatter
Action: SachaS removed /usr/bin/python which was a link to /usr/bin/python1.5 and created a new link to python2.2
Action: SachaS make in geas ok.
<derek> and i just read some stuff in python interpreter that reconfirmed that
<derek> :)
<derek> as 2.0 iirc is NOT gpl compatiable
<derek> 1.5.2, 2.1 and 2.2 are
<derek> i think we should eliminate support for 1.5.2 as it will be VERY old by time our software makes it into distros
<derek> forms already requires 2.0 or greater
Action: SachaS make check in geas looks ok.
Action: SachaS enters make install
<neilt> SachaS: you will probably need to reinstall orbit-python
<neilt> because it may have isntalled in python1.5 tree
Action: SachaS apt-gets python-orbit
<ajmitch> ok, this is fun, going thru the form wizard
<ajmitch> got up to selecting base table/source
<ajmitch> DB000:   File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/dbdrivers/psycopg/DBdriver.py", line 135, in getSchemaByName
<ajmitch> DB000:     schema = GDataObjects.Schema(attrs={'id':rs[2], 'name':rs[0],
<ajmitch> DB000: TypeError: unsubscriptable object
<ajmitch> realised that i could use one of the other postgres modules for python ;)
<ajmitch> hmm, no point complaining when jamest/jcater are MIA
Action: SachaS successfully installed geas
<derek>  Release         Derived     Year        Owner       GPL-
<derek>     0.9.0 thru 1.2              1991-1995   CWI         yes
<derek>     1.3 thru 1.5.2  1.2         1995-1999   CNRI        yes
<derek>     1.6             1.5.2       2000        CNRI        no
<derek>     2.0             1.6         2000        BeOpen.com  no
<derek>     1.6.1           1.6         2001        CNRI        no
<derek>     2.1             2.0+1.6.1   2001        PSF         no
<derek>     2.0.1           2.0+1.6.1   2001        PSF         yes
<derek>     2.1.1           2.1+2.0.1   2001        PSF         yes
<derek>     2.2             2.1.1       2001        PSF         yes
<derek> from the 2.2 license text in python
<derek> so i guess we should say 2.1.1 or greater :)
<derek> must run now, bye bye
<SachaS> bye
<neilt> [dhcp64-134-54-175:~] ntiffin% python -V
<neilt> Python 2.1.1
<neilt> thats the one i use :)
<derek> wait ajmitch i might be able to fix your problem :)
<ajmitch> derek: oh?
<derek> when you picked a database from the wizard
<ajmitch> yeah
<derek> can you paste here what is in your connections.conf file for that database?
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<ajmitch> certainly
<derek> ....
<ajmitch> [gnue]
<ajmitch> comment = PostgreSQL Sample Connection
<ajmitch> provider = psycopg
<ajmitch> host = localhost
<ajmitch> dbname = gnue
<derek> ok
<derek> are you using psycopg?
<derek> i heard you earlier say you were using pygresql?
<ajmitch> sure
<derek> so you do have psycopg installed
<ajmitch> was trying to use pygresql (it was postgresql in connection.conf)
<neilt> what is psycopg?
<derek> ok
<ajmitch> but i changed it to psycopg since i'd just installed that
<derek> now two stupid questions
<derek> a. does database gnue exist?
<derek> and if it does
<derek> b. can you get to it via sockets
<derek> i.e.
<derek> can you do
<ajmitch> it exists, with no tables
<derek> psql -h localhost gnue
<ajmitch> am looking at it with pgaccess now
<derek> if you can do that
<derek> then add a table and retry
<derek> i think its probably having no tables thats frying it :)
<ajmitch> ok, adding table
<derek> as wizard is trying to 'introspect' into the database and get list of table names
<derek> and is choking when it cant
<derek> jcater: if you are really here and that is the problem, probably good idea to add error handling for that :)
<derek> you can try somethign like
<jcater> yes
<ajmitch> am starting wizard again
<derek> er in our samples dir there are some postgres create scripts
<jcater> that is the problem :)
<jcater> I see it in the code
<jcater> sifg
<jcater> sigh
<ajmitch> ah much better
<derek> cool
<derek> see i could help :)
<ajmitch> apart from that little prob, it's looking quite nice :)
<derek> not much but a little :)
<ajmitch> thx derek :)
<derek> neilt fwiw: psycopg is just another dbdriver for postgres for python
<derek> it would be like another 'vendors' library for postgres that works with python
<derek> fwiw: i think i like it much better than pygresql
<neilt> in place of pysgresl or whatever it is
<derek> yes
<neilt> ok, thanks
<derek> we support like 4 or 5 of them now
<derek> popy
<derek> pygresql
<derek> pscyopg and some others
<jcater> pypgsql
<derek> i couldnt get popy to work :(
<derek> pygresql works and has decent windows support
<jcater> I'd recommend either pypgsql or psycopg to everyone
<derek> i like psycopg a lot and i think it has windwos driver
<jcater> derek: you mean pypgsql
<derek> though i havent looked since jcater got odbc working :)
<ajmitch> the main problem i seem to have is speed :)
<derek> speed?
<derek> really
<derek> i find it rather snappy
<derek> even on my slow machines
<ajmitch> yeah, but that could be my machine being 'old'
<neilt> ajmitch: well too much and you wont have any problems at all
<derek> slow == p200mmx w/ 64mb RAM
<ajmitch> hmm, k
<derek> forms at least
<derek> let me try designer here
<ajmitch> my machine is 400mhz k6-2 w/ 384MB RAM
<ajmitch> mainly in stuff like draggin things, waiting for windows to appear
<ajmitch> i've noticed that with my wxpython stuff too
<derek> i think dragging is jacked
<ajmitch> yeah, could be
<ajmitch> lemme try forms
<derek> ok be back later
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<SachaS> neilt: i installed geas. what do you propose as next step?
<neilt> you need to edit geas.conf
<SachaS> neilt: geas.conf looks good to me
<ajmitch> yeah, forms is quite good
<neilt> there are several sample configurations
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<neilt> then goto geas/src
<neilt> and run ./geas-server -v
<neilt> hold on, are you running from development dir or did you install
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<SachaS> i did install it.
<neilt> hmmm, i have never ever done that
<neilt> do we allow people to install geas :)
<neilt> what an odd concept
<ajmitch> hehe
<neilt> run geas-server -v then
<SachaS> neilt: haha. i started geas and get ImportErrors: No module named CORBA and a NameError: name CORBA' is not defined and another Import Error: No module named GEAS
<SachaS> neilt: and /usr/local/share/geas/methods/: No such file or directory
<neilt> ok the path to ORBit is not right in geas.conf
<neilt> SachaS: seriously, i have never installed geas
<neilt> so i have no idea where it puts things
<ajmitch> how well does geas work at the moment, anyway?
<neilt> ajmitch: it passes all of the regression tests
<neilt> it works, has room for improvement
<ajmitch> ok
<neilt> but the forms team will not write a driver for geas
<neilt> that works
<ajmitch> why is that?
<neilt> so its not much use
<ajmitch> i see
<neilt> i dont know the problems with the forms driver
<neilt> jamest has promised to work on it for the past several months
<ajmitch> but hasn't?
<neilt> so we are kind of on hold with geas
<neilt> until that happens
<neilt> he has had other priorities
<ajmitch> i can understand that
<neilt> we have 37 other database drives, but not geas
<ajmitch> a problem with limited number of developers
<neilt> will it is frustrating from this end
<jcater> neilt: fwiw, he's been very busy w/school and hasn't worked on much in gnue...  it's not like geas is being ignored
<neilt> jcater: i understand and this is not against jamest
<neilt> its just frustrating no matter the reason
<jcater> I understand
<ajmitch> school?
<ajmitch> poor guy
Nick change: Zdean -> mdean
<neilt> SachaS: this part of geas.config is probably not correct for your install
<neilt> # orbit location
<neilt> ORBit-python        /usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/CORBAmodule.so
<neilt> search for CORBAmodule.so and make the correct path entry
<SachaS> neilt: i found the geas.conf in /usr/local/etc and have a look at it.
<ajmitch> hmm, i see lots of 'fixme' type comments in the GEAS driver, i see what you mean
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<ajmitch> hi jbailey
<jbailey> Heya ajmitch
<ajmitch> what brings you to this fine place?
<neilt> SachaS:  to fix the methods error
<neilt> you will need to edit the lines
<neilt> # Where to find method code files
<neilt> methoddir             ../../gnue-config
<jbailey> I'm rebooting a server that I just upgraded three timezones away, and I needed some company. =)
<neilt> SachaS: you will probably need an absolute path the the gnue-config directory
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<SachaS> neilt: methoddir points to a directory which does not exist.
<SachaS> neilt: in /usr/local/share/geas/methods
<neilt> SachaS: depending on what you wnat to do you may what to point to either gnue-config in your cvs directory tree or geas/examples/python dir in the distribution
<neilt> dir tree
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<SachaS> neilt: yes changed it to .../geas/examples/python/methods
<neilt> SachaS: you may need to use an absolute path
<neilt> because it is relative to the location of the file geas.conf file
<neilt> or the location of geas-server executable, i dont recall right off
<SachaS> neilt: ok.
<neilt> SachaS: are you installing geas from a distribution or from cvs?
<SachaS> neilt: cvs
<neilt> ok, geas-server is compiled in geas/src
<neilt> and you can run and test from this dir if you want
<neilt> and it will use the geas.conf in geas/src
<SachaS> neilt: i compiled geas and installed it. i made the make test which was ok. do you mean that test?
<neilt> SachaS:  dont know what i am talking out really, i never knew we had a "make test"
<neilt> s/out/about/
<SachaS> neilt: me too. if the geas server would start is the idea to create some tables in the selected database, right?
<neilt> right
<neilt> reinhard and usually run geas from geas/src
<neilt> using a modified geas.conf
<SachaS> neilt: ok. i will wait until reinhard comes in.
<neilt> thats good, he did all of the config stuff and i know he spent some time making sure the make install worked, but i just dont know how it is all put together
<SachaS> kernel segmentation fault: root file system corrupted. system terminating.
<SachaS> Just kidding  :)
<SachaS> :)
<jcater> whew... there for a minute, I thought you were using designer
<jcater> :)
<neilt> SachaS: thats right, you have to get that warning in order for methods to work correctly
<neilt> part of that is because we only have one methods working
<neilt> that is the geas.sys("machine_shutdown");
<neilt> method
<SachaS> neilt: i see wxPython, CORBAmodule are installed into /usr/lib/python1.5/site-packages. so i copied CORBAmodule.so to /usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages. maybe not a good idea.
<SachaS> neilt: i thought, damn kernel segmentation fault. dman.
<SachaS> s/dman/damn
<neilt> :)
<neilt> SachaS: that seems a bit risky
<SachaS> neilt: def. not the right approach.
<neilt> now that you changed to link to python/config you should be able to reinstall orbit and it should put it in the correct locations
<SachaS> heilt: i have python1.5, 2.0 and 2.2. i changed the /usr/bin/python to link to python2.2.
<SachaS> i only changed the sym link in /usr/bin
<SachaS> neilt: is that sufficiant? or is there somewhere a serious python config file?
<neilt> there is a config file in the python2.1 dir
Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr
<neilt> that install will look at to location the site packages dir
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Action: chillywilly kicks bigbrother hard
<neilt> hey, bigbrother got some class
<SachaS> neilt: when i do apt-get install python-orbit it allwys goes into /usr/lib/python1.5/site-package/ and not into /usr/lib/python2.2/site-package
<chillywilly> neilt: more than you apparently
<ajmitch> hi chillywilly
<chillywilly> hey ajmitch
<chillywilly> didn't have to reinstall
<ajmitch> got forms & designer going here, works ook
<ajmitch> ok
<chillywilly> just diable that stupid gateway go-back thing
<chillywilly> disable
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> lovely
<neilt> SachaS: hmmm
<neilt> chillywilly: hello
<chillywilly> goodbye
<neilt> chillywilly: later
<chillywilly> j/k
<neilt> :)
<chillywilly> feh
<chillywilly> I just have no faith in America anymore
<SachaS> neilt: i do apt-get remove python1.5 and apt-get remove python2.0 so there will be only python2.2 :)
<chillywilly> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/23084.html
<ajmitch> but it's the land of the free
<SachaS> neilt: and I do an apt-get remove python2.2 and an apt-get install python2.1
<chillywilly> ajmitch: sure it is
<chillywilly> whatever
<neilt> SachaS: excellent
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<SachaS> neilt: an apt-get remove python2.2-xml . basically i start again with only python2.1 installed on the system :)
<chillywilly> http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47-71-366-1718_STO65754,00.html
<madlocke> neilt: standard for gnue at the moment python 2.1??
<neilt> madlocke:  i believe that is correct
<neilt> almost
<neilt> it should be python 2.1.1
<madlocke> neilt: think some people were complaining that newest webware needs 2.2 but not sure about that...
<madlocke> neilt: maybe he can get sources of orbit-python...
<neilt> yes i think 2.2 should work also
<madlocke> there is not yet a deb package for 2.2 i think :(
<jcater> mmm
<jcater> well, 2.2 is still beta
<jcater> so I'd be cautious
<neilt> at least for geas, i had it working at one point
<neilt> but dropped back to 2.1.1
<ajmitch> madlocke: newest webware should not need 2.2
<madlocke> ajmitch: ok....
<ajmitch> it works with 2.2m but should run with older
<SachaS> quck question: when did you guys decide to use python?
<madlocke> SachaS: some time ago ;)
<SachaS> s/quck/quick
<neilt> because its the best
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<neilt> ok jcater and jamest can stop beating me know
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<neilt> now
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<SachaS> neilt: you are a developer for gnue?
<neilt> SachaS: yes
<neilt> for geas anyway
<neilt> and the package definitions
<neilt> for accounting, supply chain, sales etc
<chillywilly> neilt: you da man!
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<neilt> one of a team
<neilt> anyway
<SachaS> neilt: how do you keep up with other developers? is irc the main communication medium?
<neilt> SachaS: yes
<SachaS> neilt: besides cvs, i guess
<chillywilly> the best software warranty is the GNU GPL!!!
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<SachaS> neilt: do you read the log of irc time where you were offline?
<neilt> i do sometimes
<chillywilly> hey nickr
<neilt> but not always
<SachaS> neilt: ok. sometimes there are important things discussed and sometimes not, i guess
<neilt> yes kc seems to be a real improvement
<SachaS> neilt: so i guess when something important was discussed you get informed, or so.
<madlocke> SachaS: maybe the kernel cousin is easier for reading, because it is not so much stuff... look for a link ay the gnuenterprise homepage
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<SachaS> madlocke: i read it from linuxtoday.com . good information, update, indeed
<chillywilly> ack
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<neilt> SachaS:  for important things relating to geas reinhard and I have agreeed to email the gnue-discuss or gnue-geas mail list
<neilt> so usually one of us catches issues
<SachaS> neilt: are these mailing lists public?
<neilt> yes
<SachaS> ok.
<neilt> everything we do is public
<SachaS> neilt: i go and subscribe while apt-get is downloading with av. 500B/s :(
<neilt> there is also a cvs commit email list
<madlocke> neilt: there was a problem subscribing to the lists... this works again?
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<madlocke> one more time ;)
<madlocke> neilt: there was a problem subscribing to the lists... this works again?
<ajmitch> heh
<neilt> madlocke:  i did not know there was a problem
<neilt> but if you have a problem subscribing send email to info@gnue.org
<madlocke> neilt: i tried and did not get an answer message... i was told that the server changes..
<ajmitch> possibly, are the lists on the main gnuenterprise.org server?
<neilt> this goes to the core team
<madlocke> was gnuef list i.e.
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<neilt> http://lists.gnue.org/mailman/listinfo
<neilt> madlocke: 
<madlocke> configure mozilla...
<madlocke> evolution didn't really work for me...
<madlocke> want to look for msg filters then i try again to subscribe
<SachaS> subscribing to mailing lists works. successfully subscribed to geas, discuss mailinglists
<SachaS> ls
<SachaS> neilt: so i got rid of python1.5 and python2.2 and installed python2.1
<neilt> and you installed python-orbit?
<ajmitch> neilt: if python-orbit was built for bython1.5, it'll go in the 1.5 dir
<SachaS> when i try to apt-get python-orbit it gets python1.5 again :(
<SachaS> yes. ajmitch.
<ajmitch> python policy has recently changed, btw
<neilt> yuck
<SachaS> and there is no python2.1-base
<SachaS> only a python1.5-base
<SachaS> in debian testing.
<ajmitch> i guess 0.3.0 is in testing (depends on python 1.5 here), but 0.3.1 is in unstable (depends on python (>= 2.1), python (<< 2.2) )
<ajmitch> i think you can get python-orbit from unstable (and only that package)
<SachaS> ajmitch. i guess so. 
<neilt> i am using orbit-python 0.3.1
<neilt> i built and installed from source
<SachaS> in debian testing orbit-python is 0.3.0-2
<ajmitch> neilt: ah, ok
<SachaS> debian testing orbit-python 0.3.0-2 is against python-base 1.5.2-18.4 
<ajmitch> not surprising
<SachaS> ajmitch, i dont realy want to go to testing with this machine.
<ajmitch> SachaS: i though you were using testing?
<SachaS> ajmitch. sorry to unstable.
<ajmitch> well, i said that you can get single packages from unstable
<SachaS> ajmitch: how do you do that in the /etc/apt/sources.list file?
<ajmitch> umm, i cannot remember exactly (since i only use unstable)...
<SachaS> ajmitch: ok. nevermind.
<ajmitch> i know you install it with apt-get install orbit-python/unstable
<chillywilly> you would have to changes soures.list to point to instable, update temporarily, install orbit-python, and then change it back and update to the distro you are using
<chillywilly> s/instable/unstable
<SachaS> mailinglist for supply-chain seems not to work.
<SachaS> mailinglist for forms seems not to work.
<SachaS> i dont get confirmatin mail for those two lists.
<chillywilly> they are probably hosed
<SachaS> mailinglist geas and mailinglist discuss seem to be ok.
<neilt> will i just posted the first message to the supply chain list since 7/26
<neilt> and it seems to work
<neilt> so it must just be sign-up that is hosed
<chillywilly> k
Action: SachaS downloads source for python-orbit 0.3.1 for python2.1 base
<SachaS> debian testing python-pygresql 7.1.3-4 depends on python-base 1.5. ahhhh
<ajmitch> default python in testing is probably 1.5.2
<neilt> ugh, this is getting ugly
<ajmitch> what's that, the mess of python versions?
<SachaS> it seems there is no python-orbit and python-pygresql based on python2.1 in testing. havent looked at libwxgtk for python2.1.
<SachaS> and no python2.1-base in testing.
<ajmitch> it'll be for 1.5
<SachaS> yep. and i cant use 1.5 for gnue. right?
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<SachaS> so either i go for unstable or download the source files and compile them.
<derek> aye
<derek> source of?
<derek> mdean: you really here
<ajmitch> derek: lotsa python stuff in testing depends on python 1.5.2
<SachaS> source of python2.1, python-orbit based on 2.1, python-pygsqrl based on 2.1
<derek> to explain the sickness of my family my mother sends me this email:
<derek> One day when the teacher walked to the black board, she 
<derek> noticed someone had written the word 'penis' in tiny small letters. 
<derek> She turned around, scanned the class looking for the guilty face.
<derek> Finding none, she quickly erased it, and began her class. 
<derek> The next day she went into the room and she saw, in larger letters, 
<derek> the word 'penis' again on the black board. 
<derek> Again, she looked around in vain for the culprit, but found none, so she
<derek> proceeded with the day's lesson. 
<derek> Every morning, for about a week, she went into the classroom and 
<derek> found the same word written on the board, and each day it was 
<derek> written in larger letters. 
<derek> Finally, one day, she walked in, expecting to be greeted by the 
<derek> same word on the board, but instead, found the words, 
<derek> "The more you rub it, the bigger it gets!" 
<ajmitch> hehe
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<chillywilly> bah
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<chillywilly> derek: roflmao at that email
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> lovely OPN
<chillywilly> I can't believe your mom sent you that
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#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<chillywilly> why 2 bots?
<ajmitch> it's always been that way
<derek> its a backup bot :)
<derek> for days like yesterday when we experience outage
<chillywilly> k
<chillywilly> which box is libertydistribution.com?
<derek> goats
<chillywilly> k
<chillywilly> you running that bot from their mail server?
<derek> huh?
<derek> apparently
Action: SachaS starts all over again. removed all python packages from debian testing box
<derek> fwiw mail and several things are on same machine
<derek> tehre is machine in front of the big ugly firewall and machines behind it
<derek> real stuff goes on machine behind the big bad firewall
<derek> play things in front
<derek> irc bots are play things :)
Action: SachaS downloads Python-2.1.1.tgz
<neilt> derek: you wanted me to remind you to fix me
<chillywilly> python 2.1.1 is now in sid
<derek> ah yes
<SachaS> chillywilly: is sid testing?
<ajmitch> SachaS: unstable :)
<derek> now try to op yourself
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<derek> SachaS: be a real man, download 2.2b :)
<neilt> cool thanks
<derek> sorry bout that i really thought i fixed that when i fixed jamest
<SachaS> chillywilly: i cant go unstable on this machine :(
<chillywilly> hrrrm
<chillywilly> python is sorta in flux
<chillywilly> some stuff is b0rked right now because of the python upgrade
<chillywilly> i.e, dependencies screwed until they redo some packages
<derek> well if you are going to unstable use 2.1 not 2.2
<SachaS> derek: first 2.1
<derek> as wx packages wont work with 2.2
<SachaS> derek. what is the proper name for the wx packages for python 2.1?
<neilt> later all
neilt (neilt@dhcp64-134-54-175.chan.dca.wayport.net) left irc: 
<derek> in sid/
<derek> or tarballs?
<derek> in sid do apt-cache search wx
<derek> and it will tell you what it is
<derek> its like libwxgtk-2.2.8 or something
<SachaS> derek: tarballs
<derek> ah tarballs it shouldnt matter
<derek> or at least i dont think it matters
<SachaS> derek: ok. i search for the site to download it.
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<derek> rofl
<derek>  If you voted for Bush in the last election, you can't take a dump here. Your asshole is in Washington. 
<derek>  -------Men's room Outback Steakhouse, Tacoma, Washington 
<derek> wait this is classic
<derek>  What are you looking up on the wall for? The joke is in your hands. 
<derek>  -------Men's restroom, Lynagh's, Lexington, KY 
<derek> good ole ky boys :)
<SachaS> ajmitch: did you compile the desginer?
<ajmitch> SachaS: the GNUe designer?
<derek> compile it?
<derek> ./setup.py devel
<derek> is all there is to designer install
<SachaS> ajmitch: yes the GNUe designer: in which directory is the designer? in gnuef?
<SachaS> derek: ... python is an interpreter so no need to compile.... got it.
<derek> SachaS: if you just got python friends working do the following
<derek> go to gnue/gnue-common/
<derek> then run ./setup.py install
<derek> the go to gnue/gnuef/
<derek> run ./setup.py devel
<derek> then go to gnue/designer
<jcater> hmm
<derek> run ./setup.py devel
<jcater> we need to update our docs
<derek> which ones?
<jcater> the ones you are quoting :)
<derek> all of them  :)
<jcater> as that's overkill
<SachaS> ta derek.
<derek> im not quoting them
<derek> im just saying what i do
<derek> i think there is ./setup.py at root
<derek> but it puked on me first time i tried it
<derek> so i went back to what worked :)
<derek> i suppose if you are brave or if jcater says its ok you could probably do 
<jcater> well, it's currently the friendliest method :)
<derek> ./setup.py devel
<derek> from the gnue/ directory
<derek> i suppose it only doesnt play nice if you have dneighbo as a login :)
<jcater> derek: that's true of all our scripts
<derek> actually i think i was dumb enough to try it when i saw it in a commit mail the first time
<jcater> ah
<jcater> lol
<derek> it didnt work then i forgot to ever try it again
<derek> suppose if you all wanted to be evil
<derek> !# /usr/bin/sh
<derek> rm -rf
<derek> and a name it whizbangsetup.sh
<derek> and commit it
<jcater> rofl
<derek> i might be dumb enought to try the new 'installer'
<SachaS> there is no README in the gnue directory after cvs download. i did not know what to do :) and went to geas first.
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> we do need a generic README in the root directory
<jcater> anyone object?
<derek> no objections here
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<chillywilly> what for?
<chillywilly> why do you need a top level REDME?
<jcater> an overview of the project and where to go next
<jcater> ??
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> I dunno
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<ajmitch> i like that bot ;)
<chillywilly> feh
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Action: SachaS Python2.1 installed successfully
Action: SachaS seems PyXML-0.6.6 successfully installed
Action: SachaS seems orbit-python-0.3.1 successfully installed
<SachaS> ajmitch: are you still here?
<derek> rock
<derek> jcater or i can help you
<ajmitch> SachaS: yes
<ajmitch> derek: and who will get you help? ;)
<SachaS> i have problems with the source code of wxPython-2.3.1
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<SachaS> cant build it with python setup.py build
<jcater> edit the setup.py
<jcater> and find the line with
<jcater> BUILD_GLCANVAS
<jcater> and change that to
<jcater> BUILD_GLCANVAS = 0
<jcater> that'll get ya every time :)
<jcater> they should have that off by default
<SachaS> still an error.
<jcater> what's the error?
<SachaS> some warnings (xxxxx undeclard) in src/gtk/wx.cpp. and then error: comman 'gcc' failed with exit status 1.
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> what version of wxGTK are you linking against?
<SachaS> with dpkg -l | grep wx i get libwxgtk2.2 - 2.2.8 and libwxgtk2.2-dev - 2.2.8
<jcater> ah
<jcater> the versions have to coincide between the two
<derek> ah yes
<jcater> so if you have wxGTK 2.2.8, you need wxPython 2.2.8
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<derek> wxpython and wxgtk must be same version
<SachaS> ok.
<SachaS> ok. will download wxPython 2.2.8
<derek> since you are doing some from source
<derek> you might be better off
<derek> if you uninstall the debian package
<derek> and install 2.3.1 wxGTK from source
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<SachaS> derek: get wxGTK 2.3.1 and then install wxPython 2.3.1. 
<derek> i would
<derek> since you already are doing stuff from source
<SachaS> ok check wxGTK2.3.1 what the dependencies are.
<SachaS> seems like wxGTK-2.2.7 is the latest
<SachaS> so i have wxGTK2.2 and i download wxPython 2.2.7 and test then wxPython.
<SachaS> i heard from the dependencies problems of gnucash. but in some sense it is good to REUSE software ...
<derek> yip
<derek> my problem isnt that gnucash reuses software its that it uses non highly voliatle dependencies
<derek> that are oft not backwards compatiable
<derek> so like say for libgtkhtml you need an 'exact version' or a bleeding edge version
<derek> which then requires you to upgrade half your system to get the dependencies resolved
<derek> i.e. requiring python 2.x instead of 1.5.2 is a dependency
<derek> but its not like python 2.x then requires you upgrade 70 other packages to install it :)
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Action: derek is away: sleeping
<SachaS> yeah true derek
<SachaS> wxPython2.2.7 compiled with lots of warnings. but compiled.
Action: SachaS is recompiling geas
<SachaS> got an error compiling geas: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lpython2.1
--- Fri Nov 30 2001