[00:19] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
ajmitch (~me@p10-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.
Nick change: chillywilly -> cw-sleep
Nick change: cw-sleep -> chillywilly
<Mr_You> hi chilly
<Mr_You> and all
<chillywilly> ello
<nickr> Hey hey
<derek>  nightie night
<chillywilly> g'night
<nickr> nigdh
reinhard (~rm@N816P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> hi reinhard
Action: chillywilly is reading the new parser code
<reinhard> hello chilly
<reinhard> comments?
<chillywilly> ummm, most of the flex and bison stuff makes no sense to me ;)
<chillywilly> we should just rewrite geas in C++ ;)
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> (I can dream right?)
<nickr> GAES should be an infrastructure so that objects of any language can interact. 
<chillywilly> ummmm, you should be able to write a client in any language
<reinhard> nickr: right, and we are lucky in the way that this _is_ actually so :)
<nickr> You should be able to impliment object methods in any language also.
<chillywilly> we only support 2 right now
<chillywilly> I don't think it is very flexible though
<chillywilly> to add more languages
Action: reinhard wonders where mcb30 has gon
<reinhard> gone
<chillywilly> yea at least I still hang around ;)
<chillywilly> I know some ppl wouldn't mind if I disappeared
<chillywilly> (those who like to program bots ;P)
<chillywilly> j/k
<nickr> I would mind, then i'd have no one to amke fun of
<nickr> I mean bounce ideas off of
<chillywilly> heh
Action: chillywilly gets his trout ready
<nickr> spec writing sure is a chore
<chillywilly> it sucks
<nickr> I like drawing diagrams though.
<chillywilly> hehe
<nickr> lololo
<nickr> Hrm, I wonder if its possibly to selectively replace parts of the DSSSL sheet
<nickr> I'd rather it rendered the oo interfaces as a table that looks like UML rather than as the language
<nickr> looks like a lot of work though
ra3vat (~ds@195.239.66.43) joined #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.43) left irc: "Client Exiting"
chillywilly (danielb@d141.as9.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: 
<nickr> later taters
ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-3-ip210.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201024.flinthills.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection
jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat"
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat (~ds@195.239.66.36) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ra3vat> hi all
<reinhard> hello
jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3640431.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.36) left irc: "Client Exiting"
alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: Ping timeout: 182 seconds
ra3vat (~ds@195.239.66.45) joined #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat (ds@195.239.66.45) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds
alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<dneighbo> holy crap
<dneighbo> it happened
<dneighbo> ximian has started to REALLY go propreitary
<dneighbo> not just speculation
<dneighbo> this is really really really really sad
<dneighbo>  Unlike the open source Ximian Desktop software (including Ximian Evolution), which are licensed under the terms of the GPL (General Public License), Ximian Connector for Microsoft Exchange add-on products will be sold and distributed under a proprietary license. 
<dneighbo> i hope RMS flames them to same degree he did Qt
<dneighbo> seeing how like 4 of the memebers of gnome foundation (gnome being a gnu project) happen to be part of the company releasing prop. add-ons
<jbailey> Well, it's hardly a surprise...  When someone makes a company, it's pretty inevitable that they'll go proprietary.  Most of us don't do much beyond apt-get install packages, so it's hard for them to make money.
<reinhard> this makes me very sad
<reinhard> it supports the voices that tell that you can't run a software business successfully w/o prop software
<reinhard> btw i _still_ believe you can build a business on free software
<reinhard> sell, develop and support free software
<dneighbo> jbailey i disagree
<reinhard> i _still_ believe it although the world is trying to prove me wrong :)
<dneighbo> companies that take a CRAP LOAD OF VENTURE CAPITAL, are DOOMED to try to recoupe that money
<dneighbo> and deperate people do desperate things yes
<dneighbo> i DO NOT think that means that one can not make a company that does free software
<dneighbo> but a company that lives to 'sell software' is doomed in free software world
<dneighbo> if the principals of ximian were foolish enough to think otherwise SHAME ON THEM!
<dneighbo> i would fully expect one could build a company around say 'gnue', that gives back to gnue by doing patch work and some new development
<dneighbo> but makes its bread and butter on the customization, installation and support of gnue and other free software packages
<reinhard> dneighbo: look at bytewise in 5 years and you'll see if it worked :)
<dneighbo> will they be rich ferrari driving studs?  probably not, but i assume they could more than adequately feed their families :)
<reinhard> dneighbo: ferrari no ford yes
<reinhard> ;)
<dneighbo> my frustration lies in fact that the 'media' and many people look to ximian to be a shining example of a free software company
<dneighbo> and will be used as a barometer
<dneighbo> i.e. if they sell out, then it will be expected that all free software companies at somepoint must sell out
<dneighbo> or if they go belly up
<dneighbo> then it will be thought that all free software companies will just go belly up
<dneighbo> :(
<dneighbo> im sorry but i am really pissed at miguel and nat
<dneighbo> as i think they misrepresent our community for the glory of the almighty dollar :(
<dneighbo> i would say its time to quit whining and write a free software version of the connector
<dneighbo> but honestly gnome code is so fugly, i pity the bastard that goes there :)
jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds
jbailey (jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3640431.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting"
dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) got netsplit.
Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-90.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) got netsplit.
mdean (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) got netsplit.
dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) returned to #gnuenterprise.
Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-90.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise.
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> roflmao
<dneighbo>     List:    Gnue@gnu.org
<dneighbo>     From:    tcubr@private.21cn.com
<dneighbo>     Subject: Don't Bogart That Joint...
<dneighbo>     Reason:  Post by non-member to a members-only list
<dneighbo> i dont know if i even want to see what that email says or how it relates to gnue :)
Maniac (darryl@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) got netsplit.
dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) got netsplit.
jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise.
Maniac (~darryl@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) returned to #gnuenterprise.
dres_ (~dres@4.18.171.42) returned to #gnuenterprise.
dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Remote closed the connection
dres_ (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> i hit a quote from work by ceran about
<dneighbo> true genius is making complex things simple (or something like that) and had a chuckle
<dneighbo> at thought this was good quote:
<dneighbo> Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing
<dneighbo> your enthusiasm.
<dneighbo> though i find a gem in the following because of the ximian talk and think it speaks true of this nation that tried to build itself on venture capital instead of HARD WORK!
<dneighbo> No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.
Action: jcater is away: lunch
<jamest> um
<jamest> the link to geek goods is down?
<dneighbo> wthf
<dneighbo> works for me
<jamest> that's my line
<nickr> la
<dneighbo> jcater you here?
<dneighbo> i had request for speaker at nashville LUG for GNUe
<dneighbo> jamest you really cant get to the link?
<jamest> nope
<jamest> can't 
<jamest> bbl
<dneighbo> hmmm
reinhard (rm@N816P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds
reinhard (~rm@N816P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise.
reinhard (rm@N816P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Ping timeout: 192 seconds
reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.239) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: jcater is back (gone 00:59:54)
<jcater> dneighbo: when and where?
<jcater> ... and how did that come about?
<dneighbo> can you go to jail for choking stupid people?
<dneighbo> jcater: it is in nashville, i dont know when
<dneighbo> i know in december (17th) john 'maddog' hall is speaking for them
<dneighbo> so i woudl assume january or febuary
<dneighbo> basically i run a site that uses phpslash
<dneighbo> the maintainer of phpslash happens to like the site
<dneighbo> and knows i work on gnue
<dneighbo> and is interested in gnue
<dneighbo> or something like that
<jcater> um
<jcater> who is maddog?
<dneighbo> he is also involved with the users group in nashvill (nlug.org) and said they say you were in memphis
<dneighbo> and wondered if you could come speak sometime in nashville :)
<dneighbo> he is a bigtime linux guy
<dneighbo> been with linux from beginning
<jcater> I have no problem with that
<jcater> do LUG's usually meet on weekends or weekdays?
<dneighbo> ok will give him your info so he can set something up
<dneighbo> i think they meet on wednesday's
<dneighbo> but i know for maddog thye moved it to a friday
<dneighbo> so im sure there is 'flex'
<dneighbo> how far is nashville
<jcater> 2 1/2-3 hrs
Motown (~pirch@ip165-bamf.216-115-67.dyn.webbernet.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
Motown (~pirch@ip165-bamf.216-115-67.dyn.webbernet.net) left #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat (~ds@195.239.64.83) joined #gnuenterprise.
dsmith (~dsmith@209.81.167.54) joined #gnuenterprise.
reinhard (rm@62.47.45.239) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds
reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.239) joined #gnuenterprise.
jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "bbiaf"
<dsmith> Hello people
<reinhard> hello dsmith
<dneighbo> some here asked where a dictionary for things like
<dneighbo> haX0r and 3l33t and m4d
<dneighbo> was at
<dneighbo> does anyone here know?
<dsmith> It *won't* be in the jargon file
<dneighbo> specifically the question was where is a dictionary for 'old' people that read slashdot :)
<dneighbo> i pointed to jargon file and geek code stuff
<dneighbo> but didnt find anything for this other style of hacker speak
<dsmith> It's not hacker speak, it's "leet speak".  For skript kiddies.
<dneighbo> ah yes l33t sp33k
<dneighbo> or such
<dneighbo> knew i had term wrong :)
<dsmith> It talks about it in that jargon file, but with derision and scorn.
<dsmith> "bah!"
<dneighbo> but where is the dictionary for it?
<dsmith> google for leet or l33t
<dsmith> Here is the jargon file: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/
Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dsmith> Can't seem to access it right now.  This dialup conection really stinks.
<Yurik> re
<dsmith> I think I'll go home and use my cable modem
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dsmith> http://www.cscentral.com/features/l33t/
<dsmith> Bah! I'm going home
jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641773.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
<psu> GNUe Kernel Cousins #5 is out
<psu> I've emailed gnue-announce 
<psu> & am trying to retrieve my p/w
<psu> to announce on website
dsmith (dsmith@209.81.167.54) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds
<psu> Should show up on linuxtoday as well soon
<psu> Ok, I am a bozo
<psu> followed the instructions at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/user.php
<psu> & I now have a confirmation code
<psu> to retrieve my p/w
<psu> where do I type it?
<psu> If I type in top box (user name/password) it says login invalid
<reinhard> iirc right hand side somewhere at the bottom
<psu> if I type in bottom box it just sends me confirmation code again
<reinhard> oh
<reinhard> ok
<psu> I knew I should have taken easy route & posted as anon
<reinhard> i am logged in permanently (i think i got a cookie)
<psu> It is, I suppose, possible that no-one has ever tried to retrieve a p/w before 
<reinhard> so i don't even remember where i initially logged in (2 months ago)
<psu> and it's a bug
Action: psu has lost his cookie
<psu> have you ever typed something, then looked at it again 
<psu> and had to think about what you meant?
<psu> Ok, one more try
<psu> or mr. anon gets it
<psu> aha!
<psu> "something different just happened"
<psu> used to hear that a lot when I was doing support...
<reinhard> :)
<dneighbo> psu quite possible it doesnt work :)
<psu> woohoo
<reinhard> psu: i didn't see "bozo" user in user list
<psu> got it
<reinhard> ok
Action: psu is just incapable of reading instructions properly
<reinhard> i'm happy that i have helped you
<reinhard> (is what i usually say in such situations)
<reinhard> :)
Action: psu needs someone to authorise the news posting
Nick change: psu -> psubozo
<dneighbo> psubozo should be done (story promotion)
Nick change: psubozo -> psu
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Yurik> jcater hi
<jcater> howdy
Action: Yurik is listening JCSS
<Yurik> Anybody alive?
<jamest> yip
<jcater> alive and kicking
<jcater> (but I'm not gonna say who I'm kicking)
<Yurik> Can anybody describe thow GNUe objectstore works in few words? (I don't want to read >20k code :-))) )
<Yurik> Can anybody describe how GNUe objectstore works in few words? (I don't want to read >20k code :-))) )
<reinhard> i can try Yurik
<Yurik> I mean its idealogic organization and main features and misfeatures :-)
chillywilly (~danielb@d106.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<reinhard> Yurik: the idea is that it takes objects and stores them in an SQL database
<reinhard> it actually does 2 things
<Yurik> reinhard it is clear, heh :)
<chillywilly> reinhard: I am going to purchase the ODMG book when I get paid at the end of the week here...so if anyone else is interested I will make you a photo copy of it
<reinhard> 1. convert a "object-oriented" interface it has against the caller into an sql-commands it issues to the database
<chillywilly> or maybe I can get it in electronic format
<Yurik> reinhard I want to know following issues: whether it used to store only Python or "any" objects? Any special algos used?
<reinhard> for this it uses oql to construct the sql
<chillywilly> like scan it in or something and convert it to text
<reinhard> ah ok
<Yurik> reinhard have it something common with ZODB?
<chillywilly> dunno though that's probably going to be a copyright voilation ;)
<chillywilly> violation
<reinhard> Yurik: it stores objects of the type "dataobject" defined in geas
<reinhard> i don't know ZODB
<reinhard> it does not sture python objects or c objects
<chillywilly> reinhard: did anyone ever see that email I sent that odmg guy?
<reinhard> it stores geas objects
<chillywilly> did it make it to the list?
<reinhard> chillywilly: yes i saw it
<chillywilly> I never got a reply
<chillywilly> :(
<reinhard> chillywilly: it is even mentioned in the kc
<chillywilly> really?
<chillywilly> ok
<reinhard> and even the reply made it to the list
<Yurik> reinhard does geas object have python "mappings">
<reinhard> no kidding
<Yurik> reinhard does geas object have python "mappings"?
<chillywilly> reinhard: hmmm
<reinhard> Yurik: not 1:1
<chillywilly> reinhard: man I must've mussed that then'
<chillywilly> doh
<Yurik> reinhard I mean can geas object be represented as python one?
<reinhard> there is a idl for geas objects
<chillywilly> reinhard: gnue-geas list
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> i mean
<reinhard> Yurik: yes
<reinhard> but there is only one class in python
<reinhard> for all classes in geas
<chillywilly> reinhard: the latest KC form last week?
<chillywilly> from
<reinhard> like you have 10 fields in geas
<reinhard> Yurik: and you can do python call "object.getField("fieldname");
<reinhard> so the geas object fields don't correspond to the python object fields
<reinhard> not sure if i am understandable...
<reinhard> chillywilly: today's kc
<chillywilly> ok
<Yurik> reinhard clear. Does GNUe plan to use something to store pure python objects or make a real Python mapping or anything like this :)?
<dneighbo> no
<reinhard> chillywilly: and i don't remember which list
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> well I have it in my "sent" folder
<reinhard> Yurik: not really
<chillywilly> so I can figure it out
<Yurik> oh, ok, clear. thank you.
<reinhard> Yurik: because of performance issues
<dneighbo> Yurik MAIN REASON: not portable
<chillywilly> reinhard: thanks much dude :)
<dneighbo> one of our requirements is to support more than python
<Yurik> dneighbo what is not portable? between languages?
<dneighbo> storing things as python objects hurts that :)
<dneighbo> perhaps i shoudl clarify
<dneighbo> object databases have been proven to be bad in practice for ERP solutions
<dneighbo> we do not want an object 'database'
<dneighbo> we want a relational database that can be treated like an object db
<dneighbo> to get best of both worlds
<dneighbo> before you flame i have worked for large companies that tried to use OODB to do ERP
<dneighbo> so i speak from experience not from my jowls :)
<dneighbo> in a 'perfect' world all starage would be OOP
<Yurik> in fact, as you can remember, I like rdbms, too. And do not want to use only one method of object storage.
<chillywilly> dneighbo: what about an object->relational mapping?
<dneighbo> but we arent in that world :)
<chillywilly> like ODMG
<dneighbo> chillywilly thats what im saying
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> :P
<dneighbo> relational storage 
<dneighbo> object representation for application usage
<Yurik> Does GNUe objectstore support complex objects?
<chillywilly> well if you design it right you can have whatever type of storage you want, file, database, pickled/serialized objects, etc. i.e., a persistent framework
<chillywilly> and you should not have to know they are actually in a database are a file or whatever
<chillywilly> s/are/or
<Yurik> chillywilly right :)
<chillywilly> there's one in my softaare design book, but if ODMG is as nice as a standard as it looks I would love to implement it
<chillywilly> software
<chillywilly> although I have top read that guy's email
<chillywilly> cause if it is not "Free" then I will roll my own
<Yurik> dneighbo Does GNUe objectstore support complex objects?
<chillywilly> Yurik: it does
<chillywilly> our gcd syntax is similar to odl syntax
<Yurik> chillywilly so it stores any object with any possible structure?
<chillywilly> yes you specify the object in a gcd file
<chillywilly> look in gnue/packages if you have cvs checked out
<Yurik> ok, clear
<Yurik> no, I have no cvs checked out
<Yurik> i've only geas downloaded :-)
<chillywilly> cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@sibversions.gnu.org:/cvs co login
<chillywilly> er
<chillywilly> cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@sibversions.gnu.org:/cvs login
<chillywilly> cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@sibversions.gnu.org:/cvs co gnue
<chillywilly> woops that's subversions not sibversions
Action: Yurik opened a new bottle of juice
<chillywilly> Yurik: cvs is pretty safe to run atm
<Yurik> chillywilly ok
<chillywilly> you can even have both C and python methods now at the same time
<Yurik> started checking out
<chillywilly> cool
<Yurik> :)
Action: chillywilly sees the guys reply now
<chillywilly> soh!
Remosi (~isomer@210-86-57-236.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> doh!
<Yurik> btw, initially I thought about cooperation on object storage but now I see that our ways are slightly different. :))
<chillywilly> rtfl
<chillywilly> Yurik: I think ODMG is the way to go with regard to object storage
<chillywilly> http://www.odmg.org
<Yurik> The ODMG Book?
<Yurik> Or specification will be enough?
<chillywilly> yep or you can peek at the JDO stuff (Java Data Obects)
<chillywilly> I would like to have GObject bindings
<chillywilly> for odmg
<Yurik> but I can't find even standard
<chillywilly> we like C
<chillywilly> ;)
<Yurik> but I can't find even standard (specification)
<chillywilly> you have to purchase their book
<chillywilly> sorta sucks
<Yurik> chillywilly actually i don't want to buy something to take an idea about it :-)
<chillywilly> well then you can check out JDO stuff
<Yurik> chillywilly and comparing with local salaries... :-)))
<chillywilly> uh?
<chillywilly> the book is a one time fee...it's not that big of a deal as it is still an open spec
<Yurik> chillywilly ?
<chillywilly> read our list archives
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> I asked the main guy behind the odmg about it
<chillywilly> gnue-geas@lists.gnue.org
<Yurik> may be, may be... :-) 
<chillywilly> hmmm, if you are not buying the spec form the ODMG does this mean I cna get it for free form them ;)
<ajmitch> morning
<Yurik> chillywilly sorry, what do you mean? :-) I can't understand you exactly :-)
<Yurik> ajmitch morning
<chillywilly> just taking out loud
<chillywilly> er, thinking
Action: Yurik looks at clocks, "should I say, night? :)"
<chillywilly> almost midnight eh?
<Yurik> chillywilly yep :-)
Action: Yurik is crazy for last week, sleeping one time per approx. 2 days. But now Yurik have more spare time, and it is great >:-)
<ajmitch> not for me
Action: Yurik is out for few minutes to smoke...
Action: Yurik is back
Action: Yurik is exploring checkouted gnue..
<Yurik> By the way, insert-en-country-codes.geas use common notation for countries or GNUe-specific?
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise.
<Yurik> and insert-en-ISO4217-currentcy.geas?..
<Yurik> In first, I've found that Ukraine and Russia has inproper country codes
<Yurik> and in second that russian rouble is named as USSR Rouble (SUR), and it should be Russian rouble (RUR) and there is no Ukranian Hrivnya (UAH) :-)
<Yurik> also minor troubles in insert-ISO639LanguageCodes.geas :)
<Yurik> Anybody alive? :-)
<chillywilly> yes
<chillywilly> I dunno who did that support but we do have a couple russian developers
<chillywilly> ra3vat is russian
<Yurik> I know ra3vat
<chillywilly> so is madocke (who is not here right now)
<chillywilly> oh, ok
<reinhard> chillywilly: madlocke is german :)
<reinhard> he was on _visit_ in russia :)
<chillywilly> ooooh
<chillywilly> my bad
<chillywilly> open mouth insert foot
<ajmitch> any kiwi developers left?
<reinhard> btw i consider these files as samples or something like that
<chillywilly> nah
<chillywilly> we threw them out
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> j/k
<Yurik> so, anybody will make a changes to get these files in proper state? :-)
<chillywilly> they defected ajmitchq
<reinhard> even the country code for austria is wrong there
<Yurik> if you want you can change things I said, and I can say what is wrong with language codes :-)
<reinhard> Yurik: i would think it would be better to have an authoritive source somewhere
<reinhard> where we know _everything_ is ok
<reinhard> not sure if you can download those code lists from iso or something
<reinhard> fixing one or two codes out of hundreds and still not knowing if the others are correct is void work imho
<Yurik> reinhard it is right, too. but as a temporary solution you can believe me on ukranian and russian issues :-)
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> chillywilly: would you be so nice to fix that in cvs?
<reinhard> i am just about to leave for today
<reinhard> thanks :)
<reinhard> night all
<chillywilly> eh?
jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat"
<chillywilly> where?
<reinhard> chillywilly: Yurik has some corrections to those files with the codes
<dneighbo> reinhard you can get the iso lists for country codes
<Yurik> chillywilly yes I do :-)
<reinhard> sorry to put you to work
<dneighbo> let me dig them up for you
<reinhard> dneighbo: cool
<reinhard> sorry must really leave now
<Yurik> reinhard bye
<reinhard> must start work again tomorrow early :(
<reinhard> night all
reinhard (rm@62.47.45.239) left irc: "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est.  -- Aurelius Augustinu
derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: "Leaving"
<Yurik> chillywilly if you want to correct files with languages/currencies/country codes for Ukraine and Russia, I can say you what you should do :-) 
<dneighbo> http://www.din.de/gremien/nas/nabd/iso3166ma/
<dneighbo> http://www.din.de/gremien/nas/nabd/iso3166ma/codlstp1/db_en.html
<dneighbo> if you want something that is importable to a db
<dneighbo> http://www.bsi-global.com/Technical+Information/Publications/_Publications/tig90.xalter
<dneighbo> for currency codes
<chillywilly> Yurik: ok
<chillywilly> this might make da masta happy
<chillywilly> as I have not committed anything in ages
<chillywilly> :(
<chillywilly> Yurik: where exactly are you talking about?
<dneighbo> in the scripts that populate data in 'gnue-config'
<chillywilly> you mena packages ;)
<dneighbo> or where ever it is now (i assume)
<chillywilly> mean
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> ok
<dneighbo> i woudl use the data from links provided
<chillywilly> danielb@obfuscation:~/src/cvs/gnue/packages/base/language/defaults$ ls
<chillywilly> CVS/  insert-ISO639LanguageCodes.geas
<chillywilly> found it
nb (~norbert@pop-zh-24-1-dialup-49.freesurf.ch) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> hey nb
<dneighbo> hi nb 
<dneighbo> i think jason is very close on the RPC abstraction piece
<nb> Hi everyone!
<dneighbo> i.e. to point where it can be 'proofed'
<dneighbo> at least with python
<dneighbo> i think up front it will work with corba, soap and xml-rpc
Action: chillywilly would still like more
<ajmitch> hi nb :)
<chillywilly> like say a remote object model that supported any transport
<nb> This is very good. corba, soap and xml-rpc are probably the three most important ones to support.
Action: chillywilly is hyper
<chillywilly> Yurik: you going to help me with thise country codes?
<chillywilly> those
<chillywilly> I can make the changes whenever you want
Action: Yurik is back
<Yurik> chillywilly yes, I'm going
<chillywilly> what is this goofy thing
<chillywilly> az~Nri
<chillywilly> there's a squiggly in there
<chillywilly> effects of different char set?
<Yurik> first, packages/base/currency/defaults/insert-en-ISO...geas :-)
<chillywilly> k
<chillywilly> go ahead
<Yurik> 'SUR' should be changed to 'RUR' and the description should be 'Russian rouble' 
<chillywilly> ok
<Yurik> then, 'UAH' currency should be added and the description should be 'Ukranian hrivnya'
<chillywilly> ok
<Remosi> psu: KC doesn't have the little "icon" in the title bar thats so common these days with mozilla
<ajmitch> Remosi: that bothers you? ;)
<Yurik> then, packages/base/location/defaults/insert-en-country-codes.geas
<Remosi> ajmitch: no, I just thought I'd comment on it
<Yurik> russia code is 'RU'
<Remosi> and the easiest way to comment is mention it in here with "psu: " on the front :)
<Yurik> ukranian code is 'UA'
<chillywilly> k
<chillywilly> one sec
<Yurik> but not 'RS' and 'UP' :-)
<chillywilly> k
<dneighbo> Yurik why not makes changes in your copy
<dneighbo> do a diff
<dneighbo> then send to chilly so he can commit
<chillywilly> too late
<Yurik> dneighbo i'm too lazy :-)) and it seems that chillywilly made most of changes already :-)
<chillywilly> already made then changes
<dneighbo> this kind of contribution is 'general' knowledge so im not concerned with assignment
<Yurik> and languages :-)
<chillywilly> I was gooing to say that though
<Yurik> (btw files seems to be corrupted)
<dneighbo> but we would love you to make bigger changes, though that would require an assignment
<Yurik> not ukrainien but ukranian :-)
<chillywilly> in the country codes?
<Yurik> not, in languages 
<chillywilly> ack
<chillywilly> subversions is down?
<chillywilly> danielb@obfuscation:~/src/cvs/gnue$ cvs up
<chillywilly> ssh: subversions.gnu.org: Temporary failure in name resolution
<chillywilly> cvs [update aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any)
<Yurik> subversions is working
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> not for me though
<Remosi> your dns however isn't?
<chillywilly> man this sucks
<Remosi> go stick the ip in /etc/hosts :)
<chillywilly> I had problems reaching non-us.debian.org too
<Yurik> chillywilly 199.232.41.2
<Yurik> :)
<Remosi> your cable company hasn't turned themselves off have they? :)
<chillywilly> yes
<chillywilly> I did a "host" comannd
Action: chillywilly has a dialup
<chillywilly> wonder why dns is so hosed
<Remosi> hmm
<chillywilly> what uses port 137?
<chillywilly> dns?
<Remosi> er
<Remosi> dns is 53
Action: chillywilly is looking at his netfiler log
<Remosi> 137 is netbios
<chillywilly> thought so
<chillywilly> oh
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> that's me connecting from the winvlows machine upstairs
<chillywilly> winblows
<Remosi> right
Action: Remosi reads KC
<Remosi> PNG is very definately NOT vector!
<chillywilly> heheh
<Remosi> SWG is the vector format IIRC
<jbailey> SVG
<Remosi> so I've got an accent :P
<Remosi> so sue me :P
<ajmitch> nah
<jbailey> I'm Canadian, we're not in the habit of suing people.  =)
<jbailey> (looking nervously around the room)
<ajmitch> Remosi: you probably speak normally, unlike the rest of these people ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<Yurik> who knows LaTeX?
Action: chillywilly raises his hand
<Yurik> :) 
<chillywilly> now I can reach subversions
<chillywilly> hrrrrm
<chillywilly> weird
<Yurik> chillywilly I don't remember how can I get table (\begin{table} ... \end{table}) be centered?
<chillywilly> oh yea!
<chillywilly> Packers on are tonight
<chillywilly> woohoo
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: chillywilly almost forgot
<chillywilly> hi psu
<Yurik> psu hi
<psu> hi cw
<Remosi> cw: in the networking community there is a little worry that the root DNS servers are becomming overloaded, dns issues may be a sign of this
<chillywilly> Monday Night Football baby
<chillywilly> Remosi: hmmm, ok
<ajmitch> psu!
<psu> 'tis I
<chillywilly> psu: nice KC
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> good work
<psu> cheers
<psu> I'm especially proud of the headquote
<chillywilly> Yurik: what is you full name?
<psu> we should get bradley to pop in more often 
<chillywilly> I want to gie you credit for the patch
<psu> & say something inspirational
<chillywilly> in the cvs log
<chillywilly> an email would also be nice
<chillywilly> email address
<Yurik> chillywilly Yurii A. Rashkovskii
<Remosi> psu: I like the head quotes :)  
<Remosi> psu: I was somewhat disappointed that they weren't random from a large selection of cool headquotes :)
<Yurik> chillywilly yrashk@yar.com.ua
<chillywilly> k
<chillywilly> tnx
<Yurik> tnx, too :)
<chillywilly> np
<chillywilly> btw easiest way to make a patch is
<chillywilly> cvs diff > file.diff ;)
<chillywilly> not much work involved there
mpav (mpav@dhcp216-12-237-111.bccr.aus.wayport.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Remosi> Remosi: irc.gnu.org -- setting up another network is kinda pointless and the overhead is quite large for the value, piggybacking on someone else is a much better idea.  OPN is an obvious choice.
Action: Yurik is out for few minutes..
<dneighbo> hi mpav 
<mpav> I havn't been able to get a clear idea of what the goal of GNUe is.. 
<mpav> he dneighbo
<dneighbo> to rule the world :)
<dneighbo> just kidding we have 3 major goals
<Yurik> dneighbo :-)
<mpav> heheh..
<dneighbo> 1. Provide an application framework that is free as in libre for businesses to use to rapidly build business applications
<mpav> why would i want to use GNUe vs Java+JBoss+Tomcat, etc?
<chillywilly> because Java has freedom issues
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> and the GNU Java projects are lacking
<mpav> I like a lot of GNU software; however, I refuse to live and die by the GNU sword
<dneighbo> 2. With that framework build applications that are collectively put together to do something like an ERP
<dneighbo> 3. assemble in one place all 'Free Software' targeted for the enterprise so businesses can have a single entry point into GNU Solutions
<dneighbo> mpav the why not use java
<dneighbo> there are a few reasons....
<mpav> I am charged with designing, developing and deploying an enterpise back end software solution for a new company
<dneighbo> a. we have used java and honestly until only recently java was for Sun and Windows only (the vm's elsewhere SUCKED)
<mpav> i can code C and Java, so I have the flexibility to go either way
<mpav> linux vm is decent
<dneighbo> b. Sun owns java and can cripple unduly anyone who uses it, look what they did to J++ and standards set forth for EJB etc...
<mpav> i agree w/ Sun's potential for causing licensing issues
<dneighbo> c. Java is a standard you hae NO say so in and can fall on the sword at anytime because of it
<mpav> however, java is very mature, i can find developers who can code it for very cheap
<jbailey> dneighbo: Java: Write once, debug everywhere!
<dneighbo> mpav: gnue is nearly 3.5 years old a decent linux jvm (much less a free one) didnt surface until last 16mos
<mpav> dneigbo: interesting..
<dneighbo> mpav: lastly the reason GNUe exists is for freedom
<dneighbo> and that is its primary reason
<dneighbo> all developer sign copyright to free software foundation
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> all code is GP:
<mpav> the application server... is it geared to be a truely middle ware system?  ie you can connect fat clients along w/ web clients to it?
<dneighbo> GPL
<dneighbo> mpav yes
<mpav> sweat..
<dneighbo> so when i hear, i can hire java developers cheaper
<dneighbo> i can say, i cant put a price on my freedom :)
<dneighbo> i think you will find good programmers can work with any language
<mpav> i agree
<dneighbo> i have yet to find (though im sure they exist) a developer that has used python for something 'real' and not pretty much fallen in love with it
<dneighbo> we have had a few ex java programmers say
<dneighbo> 'this is java done right' :)
<dneighbo> but im not here to beat up on java really
<mpav> however, most free software people cannot make the jump to understand the a companies succes has little to do with whether or not it used the technically superior technology
<dneighbo> in fact to prove it :)
<dneighbo> i will tell you that several good java tools exist in the free community
<dneighbo> enhydra, jboss, kaffe, gnuclass path to name a few
<mpav> while doing things the "right" way can save in re-code costs and hardware.. but has little effect on the bottom line
<dneighbo> i can even point you to at least one solution similar to gnue (though less modular) all written in java, it is called kontor
<mpav> hmm
<dneighbo> basically some people really like java and believe in EJB and J2EE
<mpav> i think it is very mature
<dneighbo> we dont discount that, but rather prefer the freedom and flexibility we think we will provide
<mpav> however, i do not like the idea that it is heavily geared towards web based presentation
<dneighbo> fwiw: technically you could use java as your biz rule language with our appserver
<mpav> i want both
<dneighbo> and RMI as your method transport
MicahY ([u4dhbQ3YX@12.225.21.221) joined #gnuenterprise.
<mpav> the question is not Java vs. C.
<mpav> it is J2EE vs GNUe
<dneighbo> we are developing our web UI driver as we speak
<Yurik> mpav: in fact, J2EE is a constructor, but ERP solution like GNUe or E/AS are aimed to be a constructor with very useful and big blocks for making the business solutions delivered easier, as I can understand :-)
<dneighbo> we find our customers are more happy with robust real clients than web clients 
<dneighbo> but we value a good web architcture as well
<Yurik> GNUe guys, am I right about GNUe? :)
<dneighbo> Yurik yes
<mpav> interesting..
<dneighbo> Yurik you hit onthe piece pepole over look about j2ee
<dneighbo> i don tknow many companies that use j2ee that want to 'share' what they are coding
<dneighbo> in GNUe everything developed for it is shared
<dneighbo> so if i go and make some killer classes and such
<dneighbo> they become avaliable to your company
<dneighbo> so when you talke about reuse
<dneighbo> j2ee has this yes, but generally only internal to company
<mpav> are any of the core developers working on this full-time (ie paid by some corporate entity?)
<dneighbo> gnue is looking to have this worldwide between all companies using gnue
<dneighbo> mpav: not core team
<dneighbo> jcater is CTO of his corp and works on gnue a LOT
<dneighbo> though he isnt a dedicated programmer to gnue
<mpav> hmm.. B2B that would actually work.
<dneighbo> many of his staff use the tool as well
<dneighbo> we have 1 developer full time in lithunia that is just starting
<dneighbo> and we have 2 interns starting soon
<dneighbo> i for a few months was paid to work on gnue full time as well
<mpav> what areas need work the most?
<dneighbo> we do have a few clients that are using gnue or ar egetting ready for
<dneighbo> currently we need to start building our application base
<dneighbo> i.e. using the tools to write applications for mass consumption
<dneighbo> and our application server needs some work
<dneighbo> the other big items are
<dneighbo> get report server functioning as a 'server'
<mpav> how does the licensing effect if someone uses GNUe as the basis for their back office; however, does not wish to release their application?
<dneighbo> and get our integration tool up to snuff
<dneighbo> GPL is only applicable if YOU DISTRIBUTE
<dneighbo> so if you download gnue you can customize to your hearts content
<dneighbo> and never give back a dime of code
<dneighbo> AS LONG AS YOU DONT DISTRIBUTE to ANYONE OUTSIDE YOUR ENTITY
<mpav> yes, i know.. however, would using it in a company be classified as distrubuting?
<dneighbo> no
<mpav> ok.. so it stays in, you are good.
<mpav> hmm.
<dneighbo> there has been debate, but i believe the official position is that it goes by 'entity'
<mpav> i have a feeling i am re-implementing a lot of things you have already done..
<dneighbo> so your 'company' is an 'entity' thusly a single thing :)
<dneighbo> possibly
<dneighbo> we would love to work with you :)
<dneighbo> put it this way we never set anything in stone
<mpav> logging service, database abstraction, etc..
<dneighbo> we are not arrogant cocky jerks (or at least we tell ourselves that)
<mpav> haha
<chillywilly> rofl
<dneighbo> so if we get suggestions that make sense we try to make sure to fold them into what we are doing
<dneighbo> we also take HUGE precendence in adding features for people that are using in real life
<chillywilly> GNUe - the freindly GNU project
<chillywilly> :)
<dneighbo> not just playing with gnue
<mpav> hmm..
<mpav> HR application would be huge
<mpav> Commercial HR applications suck ass
<mpav> don't integrate with anything else..
<chillywilly> haha
Action: jbailey is away: Buying a soundcard
<mpav> ie.. you hire an employee and enable basic network services..
<chillywilly> GNUe - software for your business that doesn't suck ass
<dneighbo> mpav im working on it real time
<mpav> like..  email, etc..
Action: Yurik is listening CATS :-)
<dneighbo> i have two entities asking for payroll yesterday
<mpav> payroll would be good too..
<mpav> start small.. then move up the chain to things like customer service app, trouble ticket system, etc..
<Maniac> chillywilly: you get anywhere with the whole object store thingy?
<Maniac> odmg etc?
<dneighbo> mpav my goals are basic HR
<dneighbo> and then start adding payroll to it
<dneighbo> as you have to have hr data to do payroll :)
<dneighbo> well at least name and ssn :)
<mpav> right..
<dneighbo> we also have lots on front for basic
<chillywilly> Maniac: ummm, no I have no cash to buy the spec yet
<dneighbo> accounting, inventory, purchase orders
<chillywilly> will have to wait until friday
<chillywilly> plus I am busy with this other thing of mine
<Maniac> JDO spec is available 
<chillywilly> yes, I was about to try and dig it up
<chillywilly> you got a url?
<chillywilly> otherwise I will have to go a looking myself
<chillywilly> however
neilt (~neilt@dhcp64-134-54-175.chan.dca.wayport.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> ai did go to the sun web pae
<chillywilly> page
<chillywilly> and their JDO spec looks to be proprietary
<chillywilly> they want you to click some stupid agreement to view it
<chillywilly> which turned me off
<mpav> dneighbo: thanks for the info.. i will be back..
<dneighbo> ok
<mpav> dneighbo: do you have developer's FAQ, including coding styles, API's used, etc?
<dneighbo> yeah but they are scattered currently
<Maniac> oh, well i clicked ok :)
<mpav> hmm..
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> I did too jsut for shit and giggles
<dneighbo> click user docs in the top left corner of http://www.gnuenterprise.org/
<chillywilly> but it did not like galeon
<chillywilly> maybe it will like the newer one
<chillywilly> ;)
<mpav> dneighbo: is the code for the HR app in CVS?
<dneighbo> no
<neilt> mpav: nope
<dneighbo> a proposal is one of the last news items
<dneighbo> we will start to turn that into a package very soon :)
<mpav> k.
<neilt> hr proposal is posted to the webs site
<chillywilly> neilt: you just do that recently?
<neilt> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/GNUe_HR_Package.txt
<neilt> yes, yesterday
<chillywilly> awesome
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<chillywilly> neilt: I amabout to commit some changes to the country codes and currency stiff pointed out by Yurik
<chillywilly> stuff
<neilt> what changes
<neilt> this stuff has been discussed 
<chillywilly> russian and ukranian stuff
<neilt> what changes
<dneighbo> typos i think neilt 
<dneighbo> like
<chillywilly> country codes and currencies in the default sql files are wrong
<dneighbo> russia code was rs
<dneighbo> when its really ru
<neilt> they are ISO standard
<dneighbo> that kind of thing
<chillywilly> no big deal
<dneighbo> hmm where did you get the iso form
<neilt> in our db
<dneighbo> i checked the iso standard
<neilt> are the changes local custom or ISO standards
<dneighbo> and they werent what chillywilly said was in there
<chillywilly> I didn;'t say anything about it
<chillywilly> I am a mere pawn
<dneighbo> i told him to go off the links i gave for the iso standard :)
<chillywilly> Yurik siad it was wrong
<chillywilly> I took him for his word as he lives in that part of th eworld
<neilt> chillywilly:  that may or may not be good enough
<chillywilly> well I haven't done anything yet
<neilt> the default SQL files were loaded directly from the ISO data sources
<chillywilly> neilt: you want the patch so you can check it? or is it supposed to ne iso compliant?
<chillywilly> ok
<Yurik> In fact (I don't know exactly) ISO may differ from my proposed changes, but when the world (and business!) use RU, UA / RUR, UAH - it says something to you? :-)
<Yurik> neilt there was "USSR roubles" - what can I say?! :-)
<neilt> Yurik:  not opposed to having local modifications, the question is where they belong
<Yurik> neilt USSR was broken in 1991 :)
<neilt> and if they are ISO or not
<neilt> we just have todo the homework to determine the propoer place
<neilt> not questioning the need
<Yurik> and there were NO ukranian currency at all :)
<chillywilly> shall I post the patch to gnue-dev@gnu.org and let you guys hash it out?
<Yurik> and there was NO ukranian currency at all :)
<neilt> Yurik: the ISO stuff is usually a little behind for lake breaking changes
<chillywilly> so should you use an outdated standard or not?
<Yurik> neilt but ten years passed? :)
<neilt> its just if its not ISO then we will put it in a separate sql files so people can decide if they want it or not
<neilt> Yurik: yes or longerr
<neilt> USSR roubles will stay 
<neilt> because it was a standard once
<neilt> for historical reason
<neilt> so the code wont be reused
<Yurik> Anybody using USSR roubles? :-) haha
<chillywilly> neilt: how do you handle localizations then?
<neilt> what if your are doing historical inflation analysis
<neilt> you might have to have a database in russian rubles
<chillywilly> how do you propose to do it
<neilt> depends on the changes
<neilt> if you send them to me I will check ISO
<chillywilly> it si 4 lines
<Yurik> neilt ok. but RUR and UAH should be used for current currencies :-)
<chillywilly> ok
<neilt> if they are ISO they go in
<neilt> if they are local adaptions
<neilt> then I will create a new sql files with an explainition header
<neilt> so the implementor can decide to load or not
<Yurik> it will not be useful for ukranian/russian companies to use ERP without their currency, eh? :)
<neilt> Yurik: no disagreement here
<neilt> but this is not about use or not use
<neilt> its just about where it goes
<neilt> so we can maintain the files
<neilt> if we just put whatever in our standard files, we will have chaos
<Yurik> neilt imagine you are a usual manager and trying to install GNUe and you MUST know that he must do something unusual to get your currency installed.  
<neilt> Yurik: not at all
<neilt> because the russian installer will put it in if you are installing in russian
<Yurik> neilt ok. You're in U.S. But you are working with Ukranian customer... :-)
<neilt> there will also be no need for US states
<neilt> in russia
<chillywilly> neilt: sedn the patch to neilt@gnue.org?
<neilt> this is a general problem that the installer must deal with
<chillywilly> send
<neilt> chillywilly: sure
<Yurik> working with customer outside of U.S. - normal thing. (Our company works with companies in U.S. :-)) )
<neilt> of validate that the changes are ISO
<neilt> Yurik:  ok, for international company yes
<neilt> but a local company may not need it
<neilt> s/of/or
<Yurik> neilt not for international only, I think. 
<neilt> chillywilly: my only concern is that we check the data first
<Yurik> neilt U.S. company can use ukranian/russian (p.e.) offshore software development companies to get develop their local software :-)
<chillywilly> neilt: whateve rman I wash my hands of this as this is not my doing anyway ;)
<chillywilly> you get to deal with it...it's your stuff man
<chillywilly> ;)
<neilt> Yurik: by definition any company that trades internationally is an international company because it raises the bar in terms of software requirements
<neilt> chillywilly: cool
<Yurik> neilt ok, you may say so.
<Yurik> neilt but at the start of the solution installation company may not to know whether it will work with other countries or not, right?
Action: Yurik got an SMS
<neilt> i certainly would know if i were doing the installation
<neilt> but that does not limit the use or not
<neilt> in our design
<neilt> there are very few differences
<neilt> but there is different data loaded
<neilt> so if you configure as a local operation and then decide to branch out a sysadmin would load some adidtional data if it was not loaded initially
<chillywilly> crap
<neilt> i dont understand the problem
<neilt> crap?
<Yurik> ok. I think that this conversation on a very slight change is very funny, to too big for the size of the problem... As for me, I've just proposed to change currencies and codes to their current state. You may include change or not - it is your task :)
<Yurik> but, finally, I think this kind of solution (loading additional changes) - is not good one; as I can say from my experience.
<neilt> ok our current design is that the sql files are ISO standard designations
<chillywilly> neilt: thought you were in my aliases
<neilt> and we allow for local modifications
<chillywilly> neilt: had to resend with your while email
<chillywilly> no biggie
<chillywilly> s/while//
Action: Yurik tired to explain, and finishing to do it. It is your area to decide whether update or not :-) 
Action: jbailey is back (gone 00:31:20)
<ajmitch> wb jbailey
<jbailey> tx
<chillywilly> Yurik: it shouldn't be that big if  deal it culd be just the matter of saying oh the ISo says your currency is this but we have a local module that say this....which do you wan tto use....and they click the button 
<neilt> Yurik: thanks for the info
<neilt> not trying to be a pain, but we have to have some order to how we make changes
<chillywilly> a no brainer
<chillywilly> plus old ppl are ornery anyway and they don't liek change ;)
Action: chillywilly runs
<neilt> chillywilly: :)
<neilt> chillywilly:  keep that in mind
<neilt> next time
<neilt> also
<chillywilly> duely noted
jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641773.sympatico.ca) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
Action: Yurik is on www.iso.org ...
<Yurik> neilt was 4217:2001 used?
<neilt> Yurik: 4217 was used
jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3637823.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
<neilt> but its not looking like 2001
<neilt> it may be a bit older
<Yurik> neilt so, it is clear now, I suppose it was really outdated :-)
<neilt> when i erased i drive i may have erased the link
<neilt> i am looking now
<neilt> Russian Federation  Russian Ruble  RUR  810     Russian Ruble  RUB  643
<Yurik> and what about Ukrainian currency?
<neilt> Ukraine  Hryvnia  UAH  980
<chillywilly> Yurik is right ;)
<Yurik> yes, its right. But it is not in files that are in GNUe :-)
<neilt> had someone said we checked and it iso there would have been no questions
<neilt> s/it/it is/
<chillywilly> ummm, you usng an old iso?
<chillywilly> then it is your fault ;)
<chillywilly> j/k
Action: Yurik found 4 hryvnias under the monitor :))) and decided to go to smoke :-)
Action: Yurik is back
<Yurik> btw, how old GNUe is?
<neilt> about 2 years
<neilt> btw is rouble susposed to be spelled ruble?
<Yurik> rouble == ruble
<dneighbo> Yurik depends...
<dneighbo> current incarnation like 2.5 years i think
<Yurik> my vocabulary say so :-)
<neilt> Yurik: cool
<neilt> thanks
<dneighbo> well maybe not that old, maybe going oin 2 years
<dneighbo> the project existed about 8 months prior to that 
<dneighbo> then at least a few months before that it existed as two separate projects gnu gl and obelisk
<dneighbo> you can get full details at the history of gnue site :)
<Yurik> dneighbo clear, thanks :-) 
<dneighbo> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=8
<dneighbo> looking at history i guess current incarnation is only like 19mos old
<dneighbo> though it seems like its been longer :)
<dneighbo> total project time about 2.5 years
<dneighbo> btw: neilt thanks for puttin together that history page :)
<dneighbo> must leave now
dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: "[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c18 for the Apple Newton today!"
Action: Yurik is out to chin on the bar for approx. 1 minute :-)
<neilt> what is the chf to usd conversion?
<neilt> anyone know
<Yurik> what is chf? 
<neilt> swiss frank?
<neilt> the pdf version of the iso 4217 standard costs 116 CHF
<ajmitch> nb?
<nb> ajmitch: yes?
fil_c (~username@host213-1-165-168.btinternet.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<nb> Yes, CHF is Swiss Frank.
<Yurik> neilt i convert approx. ...
<Yurik> about $70, if I'm right
<neilt> for a 33 page pdf document
<neilt> now that is a load of crap
<Yurik> $70 is too much for such document, as for me :-)
<nickr> stupid ISO extortionists
<nickr> don't they get enough money from their member orgs?
<Yurik> nickr :)
<nb> Boycott them!
<neilt> 1.65 CHF to 1 USD
<neilt> so thats about right
fil_c (username@host213-1-165-168.btinternet.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<Yurik> 70 USD :)
<Yurik> btw, as I see ISO have a bad practice to publish prices in CHF :) better to use EUR or USD :)
<jbailey> Yurik: They're probably just waiting for people to actually use the euro.  Maybe it'll change early next year.
<Yurik> jbailey may be
Action: Yurik want Ukraine be united with Europe to use common currency passport... and no visas :-))
Action: Yurik want Ukraine be united with Europe to use common currency, passport... and no visas :-))
Action: Yurik is out for another virtual desktop...
<nickr> they should use EUR
<Yurik> nickr ISO?
Action: Yurik is sleepy
<nickr> yea
<Remosi> just so long as they're not using MS Passport
jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "homne"
Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: Remote closed the connection
Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Yurik> re. changed the computer..
nb (norbert@pop-zh-24-1-dialup-49.freesurf.ch) left irc: "yawn"
jcater (~jason@24.92.70.201) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> jcater!
neilt (neilt@dhcp64-134-54-175.chan.dca.wayport.net) left irc: "later all"
Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: "BitchX-1.0c18 -- just do it."
Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Yurik> re once more
<jcater> ajmitch!
<Remosi> :)
rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> jeff cater!
<Mr_You> hi
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> aaah, life wouldn't be complete without givin jc some crap
<Mr_You> got back from my first aikido class... gotta run to a blues jam now
Action: chillywilly gears up for MNF
<chillywilly> go Packers!!!
<ajmitch> MNF? why do you care about that? :)
<chillywilly> Packers are playing that's why
<Mr_You> so anyways.. I still would like to be part of any formal group which will be responsible for creating forms for the applications
<chillywilly> Mr_You: knock yourself out
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> (not literally though)
<chillywilly> ;)
<Mr_You> well there are prerequisits
<Mr_You> sp
<Mr_You> such as standards, etc.
<chillywilly> what standards?
Action: Yurik puts soup into the mwave
<Mr_You> standards for HR and Finance applications, etc.. our own standards for objects, etc..
Action: chillywilly waits for the burritos to heat up
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> Mr_You: aaaah yes
<Mr_You> well will be back in a few hours I guess..
<Yurik> chillywilly :)
Action: Mr_You &
<chillywilly> %
Action: chillywilly %
Action: Yurik is listening JMJ
Action: chillywilly #
Action: chillywilly ^
Action: chillywilly $
Action: chillywilly @
<chillywilly> nothing I like more than harassing ppl
<ajmitch> i noticed
dsmith (~dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: Yurik is eating soup :)
<Remosi> Mmm
<Remosi> Soup!
<Yurik> you have anything against soup? :-)
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> i don't have it :)
<Yurik> :-) i don't think you like meatless borsch :-)
<Remosi> little warm at the moment here for soup
<ajmitch> warm?
<Yurik> but w/ sprat :-)
jbailey (jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3637823.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201024.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: chillywilly is away: Packers!!!!
<jcater>  /mode +permanently-away chillywilly
<jamest> :)
<ajmitch> :)
<Yurik> the soup was great! :)
<nickr> zoop
Rafterman (tim@lister.sesgroup.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<jamest> does geas in cvs not build
<jcater> dunno
<jamest> could you attempt a config/make 
<jamest> you = someone
<jcater> hang on
<jcater> creating cache ./config.cache
<jcater> ./configure: line 551: syntax error near unexpected token `AM_CONFIG_HEADER(config.h)'
<jcater> ./configure: line 551: `AM_CONFIG_HEADER(config.h)'
<jcater> that what you are getting?
<jamest> nope
<jamest> it's configuring for me ok
<jamest> the make fails
<jcater> lol
<jcater> sorry
<jcater> I can't get past the configure
<jamest> you running current cvs?
<jcater> lemme make sure
<jcater> appears so
rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> I do run ./autogen.sh right?
<jamest> yip
rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) left irc: Client Quit
<ajmitch> compiled fine for me a few days ago
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> guess configure doesn't perform sanity checks
<jcater> lemme install orbit
<ajmitch> you'd be in for trouble if it checked for sanity :)
<jcater> what all do I need installed on debian?
<jamest> wow
<jamest> nevermind
<jcater> I have uuid-dev, libglib1.2-dev
<jamest> for some reason it just built
<jcater> ok
<dsmith> Well, I finally was able to read my evolution adressess with python.
<dsmith> I just ignored all that bonobocorbawombat stuff.
<dsmith> I just used bsd db3 to read the addressboook.db file.
Action: Yurik is back
<nickr> thats cheating
<ajmitch> heh
<dsmith> Yes.  And I don't want to write to it, either.
<jamest> anyone here get geas working (current)
ajmitch (me@p10-max1.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds
<Yurik> haven't tried :-)
<Yurik> but can do; what should I do
<Yurik> ?
<jamest> i dunno
ajmitch (~me@p36-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: Yurik is thinking to sleep for next 40 minutes but don't sure... :-)
Action: Yurik tries to sleep, cu tomorrow.. :)
MicahY ([u4dhbQ3YX@12.225.21.221) got netsplit.
chillywilly (danielb@d106.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) got netsplit.
chillywilly (~danielb@d106.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) got lost in the net-split.
MicahY ([u4dhbQ3YX@12.225.21.221) got lost in the net-split.
chillywilly (~danielb@d106.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
MicahY (~micah@12.225.21.221) joined #gnuenterprise.
MicahY (micah@12.225.21.221) got netsplit.
MicahY (~micah@12.225.21.221) returned to #gnuenterprise.
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds
dsmith (~dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
chillywilly_ (~danielb@d183.as11.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
chillywilly (danielb@d106.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 182 seconds
Action: Yurik is back
<ajmitch> uh oh
jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201024.flinthills.com) left #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.83) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds
jcater (jason@24.92.70.201) left irc: "Client Exiting"
MicahY (micah@12.225.21.221) got netsplit.
MicahY (~micah@12.225.21.221) returned to #gnuenterprise.
alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
ajmitch (me@p36-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds
Sacha (~sacha@203.190.196.253) joined #gnuenterprise.
ajmitch (~me@p36-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.
Sacha (sacha@203.190.196.253) left irc: Ping timeout: 204 seconds
<derek> anyone alive?
Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<chillywilly> yep
Action: chillywilly just watched the best damn quarterback ever
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> Brett Favre
Action: Yurik is back
<derek> dsmith: i told you so :)
<derek> remember the first thing i said, get libdb3 and talk to the berkley data :)
<derek> damn gnome wombat stuff is too convuleted :)
<chillywilly> derek: you watch MNF?
<derek> probably would be the way to go if yo wanted to 'write' to it, but for reading :)
<derek> chillywilly: sometimes
<chillywilly> did you just watch it now?
<derek> i saw favre cough up a fumble
<chillywilly> You missed the best part then
<derek> and then watched jax cough up one
<derek> etc etc etc
<chillywilly> did you see favre's touchdown passes?
<derek> left church when game was 21 21
<chillywilly> they were bullets man
<derek> so missed the end
<chillywilly> final is 28 - 21
<chillywilly> Packers
<derek> cool
<derek> see our church is so cool we watch monday night football together :)
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> we have packer parties at church all the time ;)
<chillywilly> this is Wisconsin you know ;)
<derek> we had band practice and just watched second half of game afterwards :)
<chillywilly> then how could you missed those awesome passes
<chillywilly> the one on a rope to billy shoerder
<derek> i saw up until 21 - 21
<chillywilly> and the touch pass after the big ahman green run
<chillywilly> oh and there was a 60 some yarder to freeman
alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<chillywilly> he was blasting them man
<derek> well i guess i need some sleep
<chillywilly> Packers acked them twice to end the game
<chillywilly> sacked
<derek> bbl
<chillywilly> night
Action: chillywilly is away: cw-sleep
Nick change: chillywilly -> cw-sleep
Action: cw-sleep is back (gone 00:00:07)
ra3vat (~ds@195.239.64.61) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
--- Tue Dec  4 2001