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<psu> hi all
<ajmitch> ello psu
<psu> hi aj 
<psu> isomer around?
<psu> this time of the morning
<psu> (for me)
<psu> it's pretty much Kiwis only around here
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> dunno, he might be around
<ajmitch> how's things?
<psu> not so bad
<psu> KCs rolling along
<ajmitch> cool
<psu> main change from next week onwards
<psu> is I'm going to have to stop the IRC summaries
<ajmitch> no name errors? ;)
<psu> and just cover the mailing lists
<ajmitch> what??
<ajmitch> that cannot be!
<psu> Not a big issue IMHO
<psu> as the mailing lists are springin into life
<psu> problem is that the IRC summary 
<psu> doesn't look much 
<psu> but takes 2+ hours a day
<ajmitch> but irc is the lifeblood that sustains us addicts! ;)
<psu> but the addicts all read their scrollback anyway ;-)
<ajmitch> not always
<ajmitch> plus i thought it was more for the benefit of others
Action: psu is feeling guilt-tripped
<ajmitch> ;)
<psu> My logic/rationale is that 2-hours a day is excessive
<ajmitch> i wouldn't do a thing like that ;)
<psu> and non-sustainable
<ajmitch> yeah, 2 hours is a long time you could be in irc talking to us
<psu> At times when I do have 2 hours a day free for GNUe
<psu> I oughta be doing something a bit more 
<ajmitch> you've done a great job with the first few KCs, btw :)
<psu> "useful"/critical to the project
<psu> thanks
<psu> Key message is that KC continues
<psu> It just continues as mailing lists only 
<psu> (like all the other KCs, actually)
<psu> I think we were the first to try KC-ing IRC
<psu> It works, technically
<psu> But the time is the factor
<ajmitch> yeah
<psu> I wouldn't dissuade anyone else from writing IRC summaries
<psu> if they wanted to
<ajmitch> there's a large amountof noise in here at times
<psu> but I'm not going to push it
<ajmitch> and a few good discussions in the middle
<psu> aj - but the noise is often the most entertaining bit!
<psu> (if not the most relevant...)
<ajmitch> yeah ;)
<psu> Other thing is
<ajmitch> but that's the time-waster, sifiting thru the noise for the signal...
<psu> I will probably still  cover
<psu> big formal stuff like the #gnuproject last week
<ajmitch> ok
Action: psu is feeling more & more guilty
<ajmitch> you need an irc helper
<psu> any volunteers?
Action: ajmitch ducks
<psu> The thing is, if the mail lists explode
<psu> so they become too much for one person
<psu> there are already mechanisms -
<psu> other KCs use a group-author approach
<ajmitch> often irc conversations are extensions of those on mailing lists
<psu> aj - yes
<psu> I tend to cut those fairly severely anyway
<psu> e.g. the lyx docs "flame war"
<psu> everybody just said on mail 
<ajmitch> i think you're cutting it fairly right
<psu> what they had already said on IRC
<psu> (but with less swearing ;-) )
<psu> so I just cut the IRC altogether
<psu> Also, the guys sometimes discuss how they 
<psu> are going to respond to a mail list query 
<psu> I tend to cut those as well
<ajmitch> k
<psu> I did wonder about a possible grou-author approach
<psu> for IRC
<psu> (assuming I could get any volunteers)
<ajmitch> oh?
<psu> but unlike mail lists
<psu> which are naturally threaded
<ajmitch> remember, i'm no writer/summariser :)
<psu> and people can "claim" threads
<psu> as per the other KCs
<ajmitch> i nearly failed english at school 2 years in a row ;)
<psu> (I think some have 6+ summarisers)
<psu> For IRC, tho', there are no threads
<ajmitch> irc is a problem
<psu> I have to go thru and retrospectively 
<psu> "recognise" them
<psu> If we were going to group-author IRC
<psu> someone would still have to go thru the 
<psu> whole log and 
<psu> split in into threads
<psu> which means they are reading & understanding the whole log
<psu> which means they might as well write the summaries anyway
<ajmitch> yep
<psu> This is esp important where you have threads that last several days
<psu> or which go quite a couple of days then 
<psu> perk up again
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> seems that it's not an easy job 
<psu> I am looking fo volunteers
<psu> but I really oughta make it sound more alluring
<psu> I suppose
<ajmitch> tell people it increases their sex appeal or something ;)
<psu> "attract hundreds of horny women/men/goats
<psu> "by writing KC Gnue IRC"
<psu> hmm...
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> not quite....
<psu> anyway, time for some paid work
<psu> bbl (much later)
<ajmitch> bye
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<ajmitch> hi ra3vat
<ra3vat> hello ajmitch
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<Isomer> heh
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<Yurik> re
<Isomer> :)
<ajmitch> heh
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<ajmitch> hi jcater
<jcater> howdy
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<jamest> hi
<ra3vat> hi all
<jcater> howdy
<ra3vat> hello jcater
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<jcater> f it doesn't absorb you, 
<jcater> if it isn't any fun, 
<jcater> don't do it.
<jcater>            - D.H.Lawrence
<jcater>            - D.H.Lawrence
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<derek> jcater: hmmm...after 10 hours of puking and having rice blow through my nasal passage, that quote is great.  As I definitely know what isnt FUN. :)
<ajmitch> derek: lovely
<derek> ajmitch: actually it wasnt
<ajmitch> remind me not to eat rice today :)
<derek> it was rather painful
<derek> if i can get better soon though i might have some gnue time though ..
<derek> whoo hoo
<ajmitch> heh, ok
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<jamest> that's was more information than I needed to know
<ajmitch> heh, yeah
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<ajmitch> hi psu
<psu> hi aj
<psu> bizarre that my time diff wrt you 
<psu> is +13
<psu> yet to the US guys -5
<psu> yet you're always here ;-)
<ajmitch> hehe ;)
<ajmitch> only cos i haven't gone to bed yet ;)
<psu> ouch!
<ajmitch> it's only 7:45
<psu> In TN, it's 4:05
<psu> At least, that's what it says in the KC
<psu> ;-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> damn, now i have to get xfonts-base & xfonts-75dpi for GNU/Hurd
<psu> woohoo
<psu> finally managed to get Windows Write to open gnue.config 
<psu> and connections.conf
<ajmitch> what?
<psu> readably
<ajmitch> windows???
<ajmitch> heathen!
<psu> someone's got to test the win32 installs, you know
<psu> "I only read Playboy for the articles"
<jcater> psu: you too?
<jamest> playboy has articles?
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<epsilon> Anbody on this channel actively involved in development of GNU enterprise?
<ajmitch> yeah, there are a few people ;)
<ajmitch> they shoudl even be awake, i hope
<epsilon> I
<ajmitch> sorry?
<epsilon> I'm very interested in getting involved.  What is the current status of the project?
<epsilon> <slipped on the enter key..>
<gulliver> i'm not.
<ajmitch> pardon, gulliver?
<epsilon> I think he was saying he's asleep.
Nick change: epsilon -> PatrickCollins
<ajmitch> i'm not involved in development, but there's recently been a forms & designer release
<nickr> playboy is a magazine?
<gulliver> just sliding through the channels
<ajmitch> www.gnuenterprise.org has some more details
<ajmitch> nickr: hehe
<nickr> I'd say that most of the people here are into the ddevelopment of gnu in one way or another
<jamest> yawn
<jamest> i'm awake
<ajmitch> morning jamest
<jamest> dang, 2pm already?
<jamest> :)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> dang, it's light outside
<ajmitch> almost time for bed
<jamest> PatrickCollins: what part of gnue holds interest to you?
<jamest> tools, apps, docs, stds?
<derek> you still here PatrickCollins
<ajmitch> i think he might be looking at the website
<derek> ah
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<PatrickCollins> okay, I'm here
<PatrickCollins> I'm really interested in the Supply Chain Management part of the system
<psu> hi PC
<PatrickCollins> How it all hangs together - how it's going to work
<nickr> stds?
<psu> Hi Patrick
<jamest> standards
<derek> jcater: last night writhing in my pain i had the pleasure of seeing 'walking tall' again... good old buford pusser, a TN legend :)
<psu> GNue is in effect two projects in one
<psu> a) GNue Tools
<derek> psu: its even more than two in one :)
<psu> Forms, Designer
<psu> derek - keep it simple to start with, IMHO
<psu> b) GNUe Applications
<psu> The Tools side is well under way
<psu> Applications, including Supply Chain Management, still to do
<nickr> and it comes witha  freew prize inside
<psu> Some of the applications have reached the spec stage
<psu> can't remember if Supply Chain Mgt was one of them
<PatrickCollins> Is there any documentation in place about the various applications?  I see you have quite a comprehensive one for Inventory Management
<psu> People who know what they want are invaluable for helping with specs/proposals
<psu> Everything there is should be on the web site 
<psu> I believe proposals start their life in CVS 
<psu> but usually get webbed fairly quickly
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<psu> Other place to look is 
<derek> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/sc.html
<derek> is where you probably want to look right now
<PatrickCollins> groovy
<psu> http://www.gnuentrerprise.org/~neilt/sc.html
<psu> oops
<ajmitch> almost there psu :)
<nickr> I'm curious about something; in a deployment of forms, how would the user select from available forms?
<derek> nickr: right now there are two ways we wdo this
<derek> one is you create a shortcut/menu for each form
<derek> the other is you create a 'launcher' form
<PatrickCollins> Okay, I've got a lot of reading to do, see ya all in a yet days...
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<nickr> Hmm
<derek> that contains buttons
<derek> the LONG term way will be via menuing internal to the application
<derek> stan and jason are working on this
<derek> so you might have a menu that is
<nickr> I'd rather have a little app that gets a list from somewhere with paths and short descs and allow you to select one
<nickr> in fact I was thinking of writing such an app
<derek> you could certainly do that as well\
<nickr> I'm assuming that this isn't the preferred way
<nickr> maybe a standard for selecting things then the forms client could be extended to support it..
<psu> bbl
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<derek> depends
<derek> i see lots of options
<nickr> Yes
<nickr> what would you see as the best solution?
<derek> all
<derek> i.e. gnue has always been about choices
<derek> i think it wise to support things people want
<nickr> Okay
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<Mr_You> hi
<psu> hi Mr_You
<psu> I know I have't corrected KC yet 
<psu> for your name "change"
<psu> but I will RSN 
<psu> catching up on some other voluntary work tonight
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<Mr_You> no prob
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<crazymike> booyah!
Nick change: crazymike -> chillywilly
<chillywilly> msg nickserv IDENTIFY l1nuxrul3s
<chillywilly> wooops
<chillywilly> erase that from your memory permanently
<chillywilly> :P
Action: chillywilly changes his password
<psu> will the real chillywilly please step fwd
<chillywilly> this is the real chillywilly
<chillywilly> bye
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<psu> hmm
<psu> wi.rr.com looks right 
<psu> but I smell something fishy (trouty?) going on
<jcater> psu: I think you should add chilly's password to the KC
<jamest> :)
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<psu> bye
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<nickr> haha
<nickr> emacs21 has the funniest feature
<Remosi> which one?
<nickr> zone-mode
<nickr> well uyou can set it tgo zone when idle
<nickr> and it does funny thing sto the text
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<neilt> hello all
<nickr> hi
<gulliver> hi
<Remosi> mornin' all
<chillywilly> ello ppl
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<chillywilly> hi jc
<jcater> howdy
<nickr> ahoy
<chillywilly> jcater: you using the proxy pattern in gnu-rpc?
Action: chillywilly is examining the latest patch
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> um
<jcater> I'd ignore anything right now
<jcater> as it's not meaningful at the moment
<chillywilly> what does a **param mena in a python function? Passing a dictionary?
<jcater> yes
<chillywilly> mean
<chillywilly> ok
<jcater> bbiab
<chillywilly> and a * is a list?
<jcater> yip
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Action: chillywilly has a monopoly on them
Action: dsmith reaches for a smelly trout, but it slips through his fingers
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<derek> run....................
<chillywilly> hi jeff
<chillywilly> hey derek
<jbailey> chillywilly: Heya
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<chillywilly> that alan clifford dude is seriously contributing come good pr stuff ;)
<Mr_You> man I feel beat up heh
<Mr_You> my lower right back is gonna be bruised maybe :-(
<Mr_You> have a few bruises already from my first class heh
<chillywilly> class of what?
<Mr_You> aikido
<chillywilly> oh
<jbailey> Mr_You: Heh..  I remember my first Aikido classes. =)
<jbailey> Mr_You: Which style?
<Mr_You> you still practice?
<Mr_You> aikikai
<jbailey> Mr_You: No shin shin toitsu school in Toronto.
<Mr_You> I just got out of a hot bath... 
<jbailey> So, breathing, meditation, and as soon as the budget permits, regular trips to camps back home, and to a nearby dojo.
<Mr_You> check out this site: mezzowave.com
<Mr_You> pretty neat
<jbailey> That sound was really weird behing REM.
<jbailey> And is even weirder behing Eurythmics. =)
<chillywilly> it plays sound?
<chillywilly> that page does/
<chillywilly> ?
<jbailey> Yup
<Mr_You> yeah flash made
<Mr_You> behing REM?
<jbailey> Creapy weird darth vader ish sounds.
<chillywilly> gnu/linux?
<Mr_You> what is behing?
<jbailey> Mr_You: My xmms. =)
<chillywilly> ther it goes
<jbailey> s/behing/behind.
<Mr_You> oh hehe
<Mr_You> yah
<jbailey> chillywilly: Yup.
<Mr_You> jbailey: read about qigong?
Action: chillywilly has a dialup connection
<chillywilly> it takes a while for that stuff to load
<jbailey> Mr_You: Naw.  My mom used to do some of that, but I never had the patience to get into it.  That's why I like Aikido =)
<Mr_You> yeah.. same here.. I just think its neat
<chillywilly> man that does relax you
<Mr_You> I think qigong is neat if you might be considering yoga or such
Action: chillywilly is about to fall asleep
Action: jcater thwaps the sleepy chillywilly with a trout (does he tip over?)
<jbailey> It's all cool, but I think it's all playing with the same stuff.  Aikido takes just as long to get it, I just like throwing my fiancee around while I'm figuring it out =)
<jbailey> I'll provide the tip:  Never swim in shark infested waters. =)
<Mr_You> yeah I might actually use that sites sounds for meditation, haven't really started yet, but need to
<Mr_You> jbailey: yeah it does all come down to the same "stuff" thats I what I find really interesting about eastern arts
<Mr_You> I think they really had some insight
<Mr_You> the founders that is
<Mr_You> Aikido is and looks fun tho..
<jbailey> A friend of mine just moved from New York to Portland to go to the school there.  I wish I could do that.
<Mr_You> here is my dojo: aikidogreensboro.org
<Mr_You> I feel really lucky.. 
<Mr_You> we have 3 women sensei and 1 man.. the original sensei is moving to chapel hill and turning it over to the others
<jbailey> Mr_You: My old dojo: http://www.vks.ca/
<Mr_You> ahh Ki Aikido
<jbailey> Wow - I didn't think Aikikai talked about the 4 principals from Tohei-sensei...
<Mr_You> aikikai is (one of or THE) traditional aikido method
<Mr_You> they consider it an umbrela of the traditional methods I guess
<Mr_You> gonnna go to another blues jam and probably grab something to eat there
<jbailey> I only really know about Aikikai through the perspective of my teachers.  The whole bit about Tohei getting kicked out, etc, and then starting Ki-aikido.
<jbailey> It seems a reasonable tradition, I was just surprised to see a the 4 prinicipals quoted from a recent publication. =)
<Mr_You> I didn't know he got kicked out, but the aikidofaq.com stated that the Ki Aikido and other styles didn't "communicate with one another" or such
<Mr_You> didn't communicate with Ki Society, etc..
<Mr_You> I guess cause it veered out of the founders traditional method
<jbailey> The story as we learn it is that Tohei had been developping the Ki principals with a group of trusted students.  He talks alot about how O Sensei didn't teach what he did, so he was trying to figure out how to teach that.
<jbailey> Apparently, when O Sensei died, his son took over and kicked Tohei out for not teaching what his father taught.
<Mr_You> I see
<jbailey> I gather O sensei used to talk alot about how Ki came from spirits, etc.  It was quite mixed with religion at the time.
<jbailey> But who knows what the truth actually is =)
<chillywilly> how is eastern philosophy any better than any other "philosophy"?
<Mr_You> well..
<Mr_You> I didn't get that from reading "The Spirit of Aikido".. Ki coming from spirits
<Mr_You> chillywilly: I wouldn't say its better..  philosophy (like a lot of things) is not a competition
<Mr_You> not knowing much about other philosophies, I just think it has more to offer than "be kind to others" kinda thing
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<Mr_You> I imagine many other philosophies and ideas are similar or equal to others which puts more emphases on the possibility of truth (IMO)
<Mr_You> emphasis
<chillywilly> possibility of truth?
<Mr_You> yes.. a truth as how things actually *are* in nature/universe
<Mr_You> praying for example
<Mr_You> praying/meditation, etc.. they are very similar.. when multiple unassociated "groups" mention the same thing, but in only slightly different ways.. I consider it to be a very possible truth 
<Mr_You> an open mind should always consider the possibility of being incorrect or recognizing an alteration of an idea (IMO)
<chillywilly> yes but not all of them say the same things...just because you can draw commonalities doesn't mean you have learned the truths of the universe
<Mr_You> of course not everything.. but the example I gave, I believe has some truth to it
<chillywilly> it all depends on who you are praying too
<chillywilly> s/too/to
<Mr_You> a truth is not concrete.. its just how you understand it at that moment.. 
<chillywilly> oh plz
<Mr_You> trying to understand is a life long journey
<chillywilly> there is such a thing as absolute truth
<Mr_You> why are you arguing?  what are we arguing about?
<Mr_You> the entity being prayed to, has nothing to do with the act of praying or act of meditation
<Mr_You> in their simplest form they are almost the same thing..
<Mr_You> details do not matter
<chillywilly> ha
<chillywilly> I don't buy that
<Mr_You> I'm not here to convince you of anything
<Mr_You> I think you're missing my point tho
<derek> hey now, its against this channel's rules to make valid points
<Mr_You> a truth, to me, isn't in the details of whether "Christianity is true" or "Islam is not true"... the truth lies in the broad commonalities of all
<jcater> he lives!
<chillywilly> yes he does!
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: chillywilly hopes derek gets that one ;)
<Mr_You> well bbl
<Mr_You> going out for a bite and check out some blues guys
<chillywilly> have fun :)   
Action: Mr_You &
<chillywilly> what does that mean?
Action: chillywilly &
<jcater> what mean?
<chillywilly>  /me &
<jcater> I think he's sending himself to the background
<chillywilly> I see him do that all the time
<chillywilly> rofl
<jcater> at least, that's what I *think* :)
<chillywilly> aaaah
<chillywilly> sometimes I am slow
Action: chillywilly awaits jcater's insult
<chillywilly> go ahead
<chillywilly> you knwo wyou want to
Action: jcater makes chillywilly wait in suspense
<chillywilly> bah
Action: chillywilly 2>&1
<chillywilly> haha
<chillywilly> cat /dev/null > /dev/jcater
<chillywilly> or would it be better the other way around?
<chillywilly> feh
<chillywilly> too tired to care
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<derek> hello lambert
<derek> why does that name sound familiar
<derek> jcater: i live but barely
<derek> and chillywilly i did get it :)
<lambert> No idea.  Lot's of people named lambert maybe?
<derek> what did i miss today see lots of new faces
<derek> chester, Hatrix, lambert
<derek> hi Rafterman didnt see you sneak in either how goes it down under?
<derek> lambert: you have any questions about gnue?
<lambert> I'm just here to see if I can get a feel for where the project is.  I have no application for it at the moment but like to learn about things that may be useful later.
<Rafterman> it's all a bit cloudy and damp down here
<chillywilly> derek: would you think it would be bad to read the JDO spec?
<Rafterman> just recovering from some pretty severe storms
<chillywilly> derek: it is "licensed" form Sun in a not so freindly way
<chillywilly> from
<Rafterman> luckily all the computers survived the lightning strike
<derek> jcater: you here
Action: derek yells, 'free donuts, free donuts, free donuts'
<chillywilly> tehe
<lambert> I think I heard someone singing my song...
<jcater> :)
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<chillywilly> man we are popular or something
<jcater> mmmm
<jcater> donuts
Action: chillywilly chucks donuts at jcater
<jcater> Doctor said I needed to cut backon donuts
<jcater> so I got a new doctor
<chillywilly> haha
<derek> rofl
<ajmitch> afternoon all
<jcater> howdy
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