[00:04] Last message repeated 1 time(s). l8r jamest_ (jamest@fh-dialup-201184.flinthills.com) left irc: "[x]chat" jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3640642.sympatico.ca) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). jcater (jason@24.92.70.201) left irc: "nite" dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.." jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3637301.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3637301.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3637274.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3637274.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3637278.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3637278.sympatico.ca) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.239) joined #gnuenterprise. hi reinhard psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hello ajmitch hi all hi psu heya bbl psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. reinhard (rm@62.47.45.239) left irc: "If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody" Yurik (~yrashk@217.144.66.190) joined #gnuenterprise. re reinhard (~rm@N816P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard hi hi alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" Yurik (~yrashk@217.144.66.190) left #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3640027.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: is there a way to filter geas results reinhard: loadSingleObject wants me to specify a field value for only 1 field ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-3-ip210.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: i wanted to talk to you about query interface anyway ok Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: what did you want to discuss jamest: sorry brain had a stack overflow i'm back now i think we agree on the need of a better query interface i was considering something like customers = my_connection.newObjectList ("sales::customer") customers.addFields ("name street city zip country"); customer.addFilter ('country <> "US"'); customer.addSorting ("country zip"); customer.execute; Action: jamest is thinking while (cust = customer.first) dosomething_with (cust); wend ? first would return one record and move to the next? (please excuse the mixture of c, python and basic here) :) if so I wouldn't call it first jamest: yes something like that or we have .first and .next :) well this is straight out of the brain hmmmm not much thinking about function names etc just talking about concept I'm going to sound like a broken record here you create a list you tell it which fields you want and which filter but we may be able to use the GConditionals api from common maybe i honestly didn't expect people ready to talk about new interface so I'm not prepared for it right now :) let me look at that btw i am not _really_ ready for talk about new interface in case you didn't notice :) reinhard: I'll have to look at it again to as forms doesn't use it to the fullest reinhard: i believe reports does a better job in that respect GCondition seems to be a system which can build up a condition tree where the leaves are the fields or values and the nodes are operands like =, <>, and, or etc. this is a very powerful system and a complex one i am not sold on any method of defining the conditions yes the basic idea i was talking about was the thing that now you create a query object and give it the conditions then we pass this tree to a db driver and it uses it to construct the result set and then you execute the query object to get the list object and the change would be that we create the list object right away and tell the filter to the list object so we don't need a seperate query object i thought that would make the api easier to understand and use jamest: the system with the query tree is also used in geas now in oql ah,ok, cool what i like about it is that you can build practically any query you want what i don't like is that something like "select foo where bar = 1" gets bloated up to 20 api calls or such :) only 20? :) j/k till you have built up the whole tree and all btw - the addressbook example segfaults not good it works a bit of the time but it's easy to segfault it oh? how? start w/ an empty geas go to setup and ask it to display countries ah yes can be or ask it to display customers when there are none i also got it generating corba errors about uncertain completion not sure how I did that however this is a bug in the sample not in geas-server honestly I'm not sure how it can be segfaulting agree that it is a bug no, the server runs fine during the client death yeah so far :) wait till the forms driver works and derek can play i was actually hoping to have a real good example someday the addrbook sample is far from perfect it gives me the api examples i need we actually rather used it to _test_ geas, not to build an example yeah and to show how the api would work also there is so much stuff that still has to be done in geas while I'm asking questions :( why is loadAll and friends in connections.idl and not query.idl you might have noticed that my gnue time currently is lim(t) = 0 i don't understand the org of the .idl files i think org of the idl files is by object loadAll is a method of connection not of query ah, ok you do connection.loadAll (query); iirc ? i didn't think loadAll took args not query.loadAll ah of course loadAll(query) makes no sense either i want all or i want a query :) and loadSingleObject takes a field argument thus I saw no way to query however yesterday was rough on the brain so my focus wasn't there last night ObjectList executeQuery( in Query::Query querytoperform ) is a method of Connection and it's used in place of loadAll? or in addition in place of you first have to create a Query object with the methods in query.idl then you pass it to executeQuery and you get the ObjectList ah, i was told that addressbook demo was the only valid one yeah and it didn't use anything but the load* functions but that doesn't mean that addressbook demo covers all of geas' functions :( are there other demos I can mine for API or a manual of functions? there should be the doxygen document http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/code/html/index.html i hope this doesn't give you a shock but i get the feeling of me fixing holes in the foundation of a building while you are preparing to install the furniture in the second floor :) :) btw - why does geas need orbit-python? for methods methods written in python see the complete api just like a client does they use the external interface to access geas? over corba? yes if they didn't they would never be downloadable do c methods work the same? iirc yes ok a corba abstraction should solve that so if a method runs remotely it can go through corba if it runs local it can go direct or any other mechanism bbl depends on how you define direct I'm hoping on the forms side to utilize grpc methods will run in own process anyway in the forms geas driver (in a later rev) so methods will need some rpc mechanism to access geas ajmitch (me@p41-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz) got netsplit. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) got netsplit. also, does geas nest objects? not any more it did jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3640027.sympatico.ca) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). but neilt and me decided to stop it doing that i hope it's ok for you ajmitch (~me@p41-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. yes, that is fine so the only things a geas object contains are fields methods correct? yes and modules j/k Action: jamest does a happy dance and it hides inheritance from the calling program right? theoretically yes but practically there are bug reports that inheritance doesn't work at all currently but when it works it will, yes :) ok well i assume that geas object caching is working me too :) lemme rephrase i have close to 50000 zipcodes right now in forms most the db drivers cache a fixed number and maintain a cursor to the query so I don't pump them all into memory even if i ask for them all yeah that's the right way derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) got lost in the net-split. however what happens if I call loadAll or executeQuery I think I get it all at once is that correct? yes this is why i was talking about a objectlist.first or objectlist.next method jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641062.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+n ' by sagan.openprojects.net jbailey (jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641062.sympatico.ca) left irc: Client Quit jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641062.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~baumannd@tech-200078.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. wassup? waaaaazapaaaaneeeeen jbailey (jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641062.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" chillywilly hi hiya man I need to copy my bitchx config to ash the default config blows to ash? ash.gnuenterprise.org one of our development machines Yurik: ashes to ashes howdy reinhard chillywilly: hey chillywilly: care for a job for gnue? rewrite geas ;P can you be ready till tomorrow? ;) Action: chillywilly really does plan to end up helping to rewrite the thing eventuallyt chillywilly: you might want to learn to type first :P Action: Yurik is reading technical researches and publications on transactions bah ;) that's what ispell is for does ispell work for c code? yep LaTeX too iirc kewl chillywilly (baumannd@tech-200078.flinthills.com) left irc: "BitchX-1.0c18 -- just do it." chillywilly (~baumannd@tech-200078.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. man PuTTY hung on me reinhard is geas that bad?!?! no especially the gcd parser is cool ;) hehe seriously we will end up rewriting it part by part but I want it to parse gcd objects into GObjects :P Action: reinhard is somehow lacking the ability to accept "quick'n dirty hacks" as a final state of a program reinhard :) the specifications is a good approach for making a good programs :-) the specifications are a good approach for making a good programs :-) reinhard GOBjects is quick and dirty? reinhard I'd like to work on objectstore and implement ODMG stuff anyway, I am going to a different building...bbl chillywilly: quick'n dirty was not re gobject ok it was re current geas code :) ah yes I agree 1000% and why rewrite yep it sucks bbiab chillywilly (baumannd@tech-200078.flinthills.com) left irc: "BitchX: the IRC client with hair on its balls" l8r lol those signoff messages yep :^)) dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641578.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. bbl Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away jbailey (jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641578.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. sup jdogg howdy jcater hi dneighbo hi jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641062.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. hi new merchandise is now available at geek goods for gnue, i forgot some of you live in 'cold' weather so added some heavier stock items ;) jbailey (jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641062.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: dneighbo :) jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3638591.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. mdean (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 181 seconds Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: Remote closed the connection Action: jbailey is away: I'm busy dneighbo: I've got the psql server you and running so whenever you want to tackle that conversion, i'm all set. s /server you /server up ooooo lucky me this spam offers me a set of songs John Wayne recorded before he died (as opposed to.....after he died?) for only $14.98 jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: rofl ToyMan cool jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3638591.sympatico.ca) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). fil_c (~username@host213-1-167-15.btinternet.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hi fil_c jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: jcater is sure flaky today :) must be having a donut crisis over there or something Hi derek thought I'd check out the irc channel for 15 mins we're kinda quiet in here right now that "real work" think think = thing ahh... uk time here yeah no kidding ive been vb slave today :( and soon to be a db2 bi0tch :) eeewwww dneighbo: you love it you masochist fil_c it pays well and im not writing prop software so i cant complain dneighbo: just use forms :P and its not not vb all the time it has a db2 driver forms does work with db2 rather well now :) i have been playing :P) nice... it's good to try out different things. have you worked with many ERP packages? fil_c yeah the db2 i use is on a os/390 mainframe nice.... "power" !! so it was more for 'geek' factor of saying i used forms against it, than for anything useful :) fil_c we have lots of people that worked with ERP stuff directly my personal expierence in this area is wrote inventory supply chain package for small company (30mill rev) and maintained ERP for Lawyers and now deal with budget/financial system for 2.2billlion a year govt we dont use ERP here we use 'best of breed approach' governments like to do things there own way... im one of the unlucky bastards that gets to help 'integrate' the breeds fil_c : we have a slogan.... It's got to be interesting and challenging. "We put the fun in dysFUNctional" fire away derek excellent... I'll use that someday I've been monitoring gnue and things seem to be coming along. ... but is there anything coded currently that will let me add anything to a table e.g. is gnue-tools ready to create forms/scripts ? or user interfaces? oh yes :) well let me respond to this it wont 'create' the tables for you in two tier, but it will if you use the appserver if you have tables created forms rocks my socks! the designer hsa a wizard you basically select the table er, wait, i may be biased pick the fields and bada bing it creates a form that is completely bound to that table that will do navigation, queries, inserts updates deletes you name it and it supports something like 14 differnt db driver when i say wizard and easy plus odbc (and whatever it supports) plus sqlrelay (and whatever it supports) i was a HARDCORE delphi user and this is EASIER than delphi sounds good.... dneighbo: of cource it is , we're attempting to create a replace for sql*forms rofl the things i dont like are sql*forms isms but i havent been assimilated just yet :) never used sql*forms yet. sql*form doesn't exist anymore IIRC Oracle end of lifed it for java apps Action: jamest shudders Where does the business logic fit? e.g. the logic to say "cannot delete a purchase order still with purchase order lines present". Is that embeded in the forms? or the business objects? how do the forms link to the business objects? depends :) in two tier it would be in the form thoough you can use 'shared' triggers so you put out in a .py file and use an 'include' like piece to put in forms you need in n-tier mode it will live in teh appserver and be independent of the form and server side 'triggers' would be allowed as well Nick change: rm-away -> reinhard I'm used to baan. With db server, application server and client interface. the app server contains all the business logic. we will support that model currently we are strengthing the interface between our 'forms' and our 'app server' the components as they would sit ( i will go into detail as im curious as how baan is comparable) 1. Forms (.gfd files (xml)) 2. Class Definitions (load into appserver (txt)) 3. Method Code (.py files load into appserver attach to classes) 4. Reports (.grd files (xml)) bbl in an hour or so reinhard (rm@N816P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody" you woudl only mess with a 'class def' (.gcd) if you wanted to add/delete/modify a new property, object, method, relationship you would only play with 'methods' if you were changing your logic you would only play with forms if you were chanign how form looks etc etc etc so you should be able to change say a business rule by only editing a .py file IF all the pieces exist and its just 'logic' that is changing ok... I understand more. say you want to add a check for if an account has money In Baan there are: 1. data dictionary - contains table and domain definitions with field format constraints and referencial integrity 2. forms - provide user interface definition 3. program scripts - 4GL program script, event driven based on actions occured in the form - compiles with Baan standard program to make an object file ok so its kind of similar our data dictionary is derived by the class definition automatigaclly forms are similar 4. sesseions - link forms, program scripts and reports together and our program scripts are python,perl,C,etc etc instead of prop language we are ironing out how we wish to hand 4 :) in a sense baans compiled objects are platform neutral, running on nt, aix eric-P (eric@Mix-Caen-111-1-245.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise. Are the class definitions set in stone? bugger: I must go in a couple of minutes. no not set in stone you can edit ANY of the elements in fact its ENCOURAGED :) thanks very much for the info derek. I'll be looking into gnue (& learning phython when I get a chance) cool eek.. versioning nightmare hope to see you around fil_c kind of :) eric-P (eric@Mix-Caen-111-1-245.abo.wanadoo.fr) left #gnuenterprise ("KVIrc : the client that can't make coffee..."). we are working on ways of 'upgrading' versioning with trying to preserve 'modifications' we plan on doing base + templates etc so we would discourage changing the base and request the proper way is to modify templates baan has a concept of package VRCs ... but that's for another day.