[00:41] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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<dneighbo> hi jamest 
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<dneighbo> something smells 'fishy' in here....
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<jamest> hi
<jamest> so, anything exciting happen over the weekend
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> i broke neil's rule
<reinhard> i worked on geas ;)
<jamest> lol
<jamest> and why was that a rule?
<reinhard> somebody asked how the progress is in geas
<reinhard> and neilt answered "it's a rule that nobody works on geas"
<reinhard> iirc
<reinhard> i read it in the logs
<jamest> :)
<jamest> so does that mean geas is now once again BugFree(tm)
<reinhard> of course
<reinhard> :)
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<dneighbo> jamest the rule is 'nobody works on geas'
<dneighbo> the reason for the rule is so that geas can remain 'bug free'
<dneighbo> i should tell neilt the real phrase should be 
<dneighbo> 'nobody uses geas'
<dneighbo> as if nobody uses it, nobody finds bugs, nobody finding bugs assures bug free kwality kiddie kode
<dneighbo> ;)
<pattieja> dneighbo: interesting logic
<pattieja> morning
<jamest> morning
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<chillywilly> stop fillowing me jc
<chillywilly> I got here about the same instance you did
<chillywilly> scary eh?
<chillywilly> anyone awake?
<jcater> shouldn't you be at work?
<chillywilly> I am
<chillywilly> damnit
<chillywilly> :P
<jcater> sure
<jcater> <wink>
[09:24] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> I am ssh'd into my box from the job site
<chillywilly> using PuTTY
<chillywilly> brb
<chillywilly> know what i am saying?
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> you are "at work"
<chillywilly> cool
<jcater> but not "working"
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<jcater> I gotcha
<chillywilly> lol...yup
<chillywilly> just like usual
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> and what are you doing?
<jcater> I'm working
<jcater> ;)
<chillywilly> is there anybody in there?
<chillywilly> just nod if you can here me
<chillywilly> is there anyone home?
Action: jcater nods
<jcater> and upon hitting his head on his trinitron, wakes up
<chillywilly> lol...I was just singing...you didn't have to hit your head
Action: chillywilly slaps jcater with a smelly trout
<reinhard> iiiiiiiiiiiiii
<reinhard> have become
<reinhard> comfortably numb
<reinhard> :)
<jamest> :)
<chillywilly> yup
<reinhard> the first band to play together via irc
<chillywilly> hell yeah...and we are good!!!
<reinhard> chillywilly: well, i was even already born when this song was written
<reinhard> as opposed to you i guess ;)
<chillywilly> we are on our wayhey...now thats not nice
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> oh...nevermind, I read that wrong
<chillywilly> so...whats going on ya'll
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> has anyone ever heard of the Gufs?
Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away
<dneighbo> an irc band....
<dneighbo> hmmm suppose fellows with virtual lives, need virtual hobbies, so it fits
<dneighbo> jason, i think chillywilly is on to something...
<dneighbo> i will talk my wife into teaching her aerobics classes on irc
<dneighbo> and i will promise we will show up and work our butts off ;)
<chillywilly> exactly
Action: dneighbo can see the looks on the people at works faces....
<chillywilly> I am going to be the first hit "boy-band" on irc...very, very soon...
<chillywilly> just wait and see1!!
<dneighbo> derek: yeah im working out two hours a day now doing high impact multi step aerobics
<dneighbo> them: wow, you are first person to successfully GAIN weight doing such a thing....
<chillywilly> lol
<dneighbo> derek: yeah maybe i should lay off the 'virtual' donuts
<chillywilly> rofl
<dneighbo> jcater it might get that pesky anti-donut doc off yer back ;)
<dneighbo> dag nabit
<jcater> rofl
<dneighbo> chillywilly_ do you really need to be in here?
<dneighbo> the _ not the " "
<dneighbo> as autocomplete on your nick sucks with two of you :)
<dneighbo> Mr_You / chillywilly anyone....
<dneighbo> have you gotten any of the guitar programs in linux to work?
<ToyMan> hi dneighbo
<dneighbo> like chord or guitartex
<dneighbo> or etc..
<chillywilly> nope...haven't really tried
<dneighbo> i have lilypond working well, but it doesnt do tabulature (As far as i can tell)
<dneighbo> hi ToyMan 
<dneighbo> i cant get guitartex to compile
<dneighbo> and the other ones are binary releases :( that dont work
<dneighbo> ToyMan i had an UNPRODUCTIVE weekend
<chillywilly> yeah...them bastards
<dneighbo> holidays are killing me
<ToyMan> me too
<ToyMan> lot's of pressure
<chillywilly> holidays suck
<chillywilly> :P
<dneighbo> having to to babysit a LOT so wife can get shopping and sutff done
<ToyMan> chillywilly any snow there?
<dneighbo> and this week i think we had like 4 or 5 xmas parties
<chillywilly> nope
<dneighbo> it was fun weekend just not a productive one :)
<ToyMan> dneighbo: yes, my work like a slave over the wkend thing has come to a screeching halt
<chillywilly> and to think I just sat around and was lazy
<ToyMan> anybody here use the zope cmf stuff much?
<chillywilly> I stopped using dope when I was busted once...
<chillywilly> oh you said "zope"
<chillywilly> oooppps
<chillywilly> :P
<jcater> ToyMan: some
<ToyMan> jcater: like? dislike?
<ToyMan> useful?
<ToyMan> cumbersome and stupid?
<jcater> um
<jcater> I really the idea
<jcater> but it's kinda big and cumbersome
<ToyMan> yeah, my impression too.
<jcater> I really the idea = I really like the idea
<jcater> :)
<ToyMan> i'm logged in @ cmf.zope.org and it takes a lot to get around
<ToyMan> yeah, got it ;)
<ToyMan> but i REALLY need a content mngmnt interface and it looks like the only show in town
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<jamest> ToyMan: you need a generic CMS for a web site?
<ToyMan> yes, but one that I can grow with, that doesn't become an admin nightmare
<jamest> um, there are a couple out there
<jamest> lemme think
<ToyMan> i know about phpnuke
<ToyMan> and postnuke
<ToyMan> and, OpenACS
<ToyMan> all of them look hard to hack at down the line
<ToyMan> but pretty functional 'out of the box/
<dneighbo> you plan on doing ecommerce on this thing too?
Action: dneighbo wants to find something GOOD that we can use for GNUe
<dneighbo> i.e. assimilate
<dneighbo> zope fits the 'python' mold, but frankly zope ended up seeming like a toy to me
<dneighbo> it sounded great, looked great, and felt great
<dneighbo> until i had do to something other than 'play'
<dneighbo> :(
<jamest> there's midgard
<ToyMan> dneighbo: definately ecomm.
<dneighbo> jamest : true they were looking at maybe working with us at one time
<dneighbo> and ACS looked bad?
<ToyMan> that's a biggy for our future revenues
Action: dneighbo hasnt explored
<ToyMan> zope certainly isn't a toy...
<dneighbo> ToyMan i see GNUe needing the following for customers
<ToyMan> well, i suppose ANYTHING could be a toy..
<dneighbo> 1. portal tool kit (for intranet things)
<jcater> ToyMan: zope is VERY powerful
<dneighbo> 2. content management (for internet marketing type stuff)
<jcater> and includes a lot of functionality
<ToyMan> ACS was ok, but it's in tckl or whatever..
<jcater> it works great for me
<dneighbo> 3. ecommerce store front (extension of 2 for products)
<jcater> just a little klunky
<jamest> there is typo3d(?)
<dneighbo> when i say 'toy' i meant that it was kind of like NT to me
<ToyMan> ok, i need more explanation
<ToyMan> what's a portal tookkit
<jamest> lol
<jamest> http://mcyra.homeip.net/homepage/phpcms/links.htm
<dneighbo> 80% of things you want to do in it are REALLY easy
<jcater> zope's cmf is a portal toolkit
<ToyMan> and why would gnue want to do content mngmnt?
<dneighbo> the 20% of things you HAVE to do are a complete bitch
<ToyMan> and why do the store front when there's already so many good tools
<dneighbo> ToyMan : i didnt say we wanted to WRITE 1, 2 and 3
<dneighbo> i said we needed them :)
<jcater> ToyMan: I'd say content management is 70% workflow
<dneighbo> because our clients WANT them
<jcater> and workflow is important to us
<jcater> so it might be a natural extension
<dneighbo> the key is adopting 'good ones' and 'integrating' them
<jcater> a natural extension that jcater doesn't want to write
<jcater> :)
<dneighbo> like number 1
<dsmith> jamest: Is that in english anywhere?
<dneighbo> i think for 'intranet' is critical to 'information' sharing
<ToyMan> well, i knew portal toolkit in the zope sense, but gnue?
<dneighbo> off financials / hr / etc (i.e. a front end to our data for managers)
<jamest> dsmith: dunno, i can't read the page either.  But the links work :)
<rm-away> dneighbo: iirc musixtex does guitar tabbing
<ToyMan> but is workflow generic or specialized?  it seems pretty task specific to me.
<dsmith> jamest: heh
<dneighbo> number 2 is important in sense of workflow and being able to share backend information to the customer (like customer info)
<dneighbo> and number 3 of course its MANDATORY it interface with gnue on some level, for invoicing, shipping, inventory etc etc etc
<dneighbo> i.e. i dont necessarily see GNUe writing this stuff from scratch but rather picking 'good partners' just like SAP/Peoplesoft/Baan etc do ;)
<dneighbo> rm-away thanks will have to check it out
<dneighbo> hmmm they all ran away....
<ToyMan> no, still here. more posts than i can read
<dneighbo> btw: its been a while since i checked on Zope, so maybe its grown a lot, then number one reason i had to toss it was because it only supported its own OODB (zcatalog or whatever) which failed to meet my requirements :)
<jcater> dneighbo: zope supports practically every db now
<dneighbo> ToyMan have you ever used quicken
<jcater> they're the reason we can support allt he db's we do
<jcater> :)
<ToyMan> sigh, yes
<ToyMan> dneighbo: you should look at zope again
<dneighbo> jcater : surely... the other reason i didnt like it was it wanted to run its own webserver (though there were some hacks around it)
<ToyMan> i'm using postgresql on the backend
<dneighbo> ToyMan at this time i dont ahve any pressing reason too :)
<dneighbo> ToyMan : what version of quicken?
<ToyMan> and fully planning to merge it with whatever gnue implementation i end up with
<dneighbo> if after like 99 there is a 'home' page feature
<dneighbo> that lists the balance of your accounts
<ToyMan> um, 98 delux, i think
<dneighbo> your budget info
<dneighbo> scheduled transactions etc etc etc
<dneighbo> and you can customize this
<dneighbo> to have pie charts and such
<ToyMan> if gnucash had online bill paying i could get the wife off quicken
<dneighbo> this is similar to what i see a PTK being able to do for managers
<dneighbo> w/ gnue data
<dneighbo> alexey: (might be bad)
<dneighbo> er that was to be 'ex:' not alexey 
<ToyMan> ah, an 'administrative summary' type of thing
<dneighbo> a pie chart
<dsmith> dneighbo: quickbooks quickbooks quickbooks!
<dneighbo> of number of widgets manufactured this week/day/month etc
<dneighbo> in your case widget=toy type
<dneighbo> or number shipped
<dneighbo> or sales figures etc etc
<ToyMan> sbt had this back in '88
<dneighbo> executive 'summaries' basically
<dneighbo> sbt/
Action: ToyMan used to hack SBT
<dneighbo> sbt?
<dneighbo> im not saying this is a 'new concept'
<ToyMan> SBT is one of the largest 'mid sized' accnt pkgs
<ToyMan> hrmmm. or was that STB?
<ToyMan> SBT STB, one of those
<chillywilly> STD?
<ToyMan> written in dbase
<chillywilly> :P
<dneighbo> im not saying even its something we need right away, just when talking PTK, this is something i can see a PTK being useful for in an 'intranet' environment
<ToyMan> so a http based summary that you can log in to anywhere?
<dneighbo> well anywhere you have it configured to :)
<dneighbo> but it would be 'highly' customizable
<dneighbo> so you could do 'purdy' charts and graphs etc in addition to just plain numbers
<ToyMan> dneighbo: just read your post about zope wanting it's own webserver...runs fine with apache
<ToyMan> dneighbo: i like the idea - PTK
<dneighbo> ToyMan it did then too, BUT it was a 'hack around' and you lost some functionality in doing so, though that was HIGH on their fix it list, so im sure it has to have gotten better
<dneighbo> btw: im not out to bag on Zope, thats what gnome exists for ;)
<ToyMan> yup, all fixed now
<dneighbo> just was stating it didnt meet my needs at the time
<ToyMan> i keep pushing it at you because it seems like a natural fit with gnue
<dneighbo> i mean the developers were smart enough to use python, they have to be pretty damn bright ;)
<ToyMan> it could form the base of a web interface to gnue
<dneighbo> well i know it cant be much worse than php ;)
<dneighbo> hmmm... i dont think i agree there :)
<dneighbo> i like the idea of webware a bit more for webinterface
<ToyMan> heh, been talking with TheJester, he's porting PHPNUKe to zope
<dneighbo> and for PTK etc etc probably more prone to look at what those guys are doing first, but zope is worth lookign at and supporting
<dneighbo> that is another issue in dealing with Zope at a lower level, and that is i dont knwo if they are GPL compatiable
<ToyMan> dneighbo: there's a lot of high volume ecom sites that use it now
Action: dneighbo is thinking they fixed the 'marketing clause' but im not sure
Action: ToyMan is not sure either
Action: chillywilly crawls in the corner and cries
<jcater> chillywilly: they expecting you to actually work now?
<chillywilly> lol...nope
Action: chillywilly is crying because you guys don't know
<chillywilly> has anyone compiled Gnome 2 yet?
<jamest> nope
<jamest> Lemme guess 
<jamest> Welcome to Gnome2
<jamest>   powered by NT Technology
<chillywilly> huh?
Action: jamest remembered the msnbc article
<jamest> and thought you were one of those unhappy with it
<jamest> maybe I remember wrong
<chillywilly> no, i don't think it was me, but could have been
<chillywilly> I am dead ass tired right now
<jcater> woohoo
Action: jcater just ordered 3 more stealth black 3U computer cases
<jcater> I like black rackmount equipment
<jcater> so stylish
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> for wqhat?
<chillywilly> for what?
<chillywilly> what are you up to now?
<jcater> converting some of our internal servers to rack mount
<jcater> as I have some in closets now :)
<chillywilly> sounds like fun
<jcater> anyone know of good rackmount air conditioning equipment?
<chillywilly> nope
<ToyMan> jcater: http://www.eracks.com might have some
<jcater> sweet
Action: dneighbo thinks they need a sysadmin calendar ;)
<dneighbo> you know stylish racks and w/ large ram
<dneighbo> posing on the beach
<dneighbo> etc etc
<dneighbo> would be good 'spoof' edition for linux journal or someone to do in like april
<dneighbo> the 'hardware' issue
<dneighbo> or something
<jcater> :)
<jcater> we should do a "goats of free software" calendar
<jcater> a different goat each month
<dneighbo> hey now :)
<dneighbo> i like it, i like it
<dneighbo> no one has bought any gnue goodies
<dneighbo> so im not too hot to invest 'real' time into it
<dneighbo> granted what we have isnt the 'best' but figured it might be a decent test balloon
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<jcater> I'm really disappointed in dell
<jcater> we have a kickass 4 processor system from them
<jcater> ..rack mount...
<jcater> but it requires THEIR racks
<jcater> ..doesn't work on a standard rack system
<dneighbo> hmmm
<jcater> sigh
<dneighbo> they learned frmo the best (ibm)
<dneighbo> non standard hardware, means more money baby :)
<jcater> so we have this expensive cube w/rack mounts attached to the side.. sitting on a shelve in our "standard" rack cabinet
<jcater> it's sickening
<dsmith> jcater: That's terrible.  I just started to like dell stuff too.
<ToyMan> dell -> yuck
<dneighbo> dell is decent really for price
<dneighbo> my laptop falls apart a lot but i abuse it
<dneighbo> they have been good with service and overall the laptop has run linux exteremly well
<dneighbo> we have all dell machines here at county now and they are nice (on desktop)
<ToyMan> dell -> yuck
<dneighbo> i think compaq still handles our 'server' lines
<ToyMan> dell service -> yuck
<dneighbo> well im probably spoiled
<jcater> we've had no problems w/dell service
<dneighbo> seeing how we bought several million dollars in hardware last year from them
<ToyMan> dell support -> brainless twits
<dneighbo> ToyMan agree there :)
<dneighbo> my favorite
<dneighbo> i wanted laptop x (a inspiron i think)
<dneighbo> county told me no, because i was going ot run linux and that laptop didnt support linux (From the dell dude)
<dneighbo> so i had to get a latitude (which is actually a better machine)
<dneighbo> i got it and it was approved redhat 6.2
<dneighbo> i ordered with windows so i could dual boot if needed
<dneighbo> as rh is free windows aint
<dneighbo> so i get everything installed and working
<dneighbo> except the specs for the monitor are off and X doesnt look 'crystal clear'
<dneighbo> and apm doesnt seem to be working...
<dneighbo> so i call dell support
<dneighbo> im told sorry we cant answer those questions you are running linux
<dneighbo> im like.... um yeah so, linux is supported on this machine
<ToyMan> dneighbo: NEVER tell teck sports you're running linux...
<dneighbo> them: we are showing you purchased this machine with win98 we cant support linux on your machine
<dneighbo> im like wtf
<dneighbo> i get in a huge fight
<dneighbo> as the guy is claiming they dont support ANY linux
<dneighbo> i point him to the website dell.com that says they do on this machine
<dneighbo> he goes and gets his boss
<dneighbo> his boss says yes sir we do support it
<dneighbo> but because you bought win98 withthe machine we cant support YOU
<dneighbo> i hung up
<dneighbo> went to dell message boards
<dneighbo> and first two posts on the boards answered BOTH of my questions
<dneighbo> and BOTH had OFFICIAL DELL DOWNLOAD (RPMS) to fix the problems
<dneighbo> now if i could find that on the board
<dneighbo> wtf couldnt tech support at least have CHECKED there
<ToyMan> heh, OK dneighbo try this one for size...from gateway
<dneighbo> even if they didnt know JACK about linux :)
<ToyMan> they ship me a box with a flash bios upgrade
Action: jcater pets his dell poweredge
<ToyMan> but the upgrade code is buggy and melts my bios chip
<ToyMan> the bios chip is socketed
<ToyMan> but gateway sez, 'no, you have to BUY a whole new mboard'.
<ToyMan> i'm like, no, i just need a new bios chip. a leeetle thing with prongs on the end...
<ToyMan> we go back and forth
<ToyMan> finally the tech sez, one second let me put you on with my supervisor
<ToyMan> an 'escalation engineer'
<ToyMan> I go back and forth with his boss, who is VERY understanding of my problem
<ToyMan> but sez like zero about the technical nature of it
<ToyMan> so after awhile i ask him , uh, you ARE a tech, right?'
<ToyMan> and he sez, "no, i'm a psychologist
<ToyMan> a FSCKING pscyologist!!!
Action: dsmith snorts
<ToyMan> 'i feel you pain'
<ToyMan> so I call up the mboard manuf.
<ToyMan> and the guy sez, well, it's obvious your bios chip is foobar
<ToyMan> i'll send you a new one..
<ToyMan> problem fixed
<ToyMan> *pant*
Action: ToyMan calms down a bit
<ToyMan> today's rant...
<jamest> lol
<jamest> So ToyMan tell me about your childhood
<ToyMan> arghh! tortured Wisconsin beginnings...chillywilly could realte..
<jamest> childhood!?!?!? Fix this machine or you'll wish you'd never left your childhood!
<chillywilly> whats wrong with Wisconsin
<chillywilly> ?
<jcater> chillywilly: you want in a summary or list format?
<chillywilly> either or...whatever is easiest for you
<ToyMan> chillywilly: ever read the book Wisconsin Death Trip?
<chillywilly> no, but someone has a cd named that
<ToyMan> heh, no I like Wisco...just my stomping grounds got kinda trashed
<ToyMan> so there's not much to go back to
<chillywilly> where in Wisconsin?
<chillywilly> I don't recall
<ToyMan> Waupaca, Chain 'O Lakes
<chillywilly> ahhh...no wonder you didn't really like it
<ToyMan> well, it was GREAT when I was little
<jcater> wow
<ToyMan> nobody there
<jcater> mason looks pretty darn extensive
<ToyMan> mason?
<jcater> www.masonhq.com
<jcater> powers all the CMP sites, avantgo.com, stamps.com, salon.com, goats.com :)
<chillywilly> this is the real chillywilly
<jcater> will the real chillywilly please stand up
<chillywilly> mike was talking to you for the last 30 minutes or so
<chillywilly> or cvouple hours I mean
<chillywilly> I was actually out doin g work
<chillywilly> he was impersonating me
<jcater> I could tell it wasn't you
<jcater> ... not enough insults
<jamest> jcater: man, you're right
<jamest> chillywilly didn't troutslap me for the NT comment
<jamest> i didn't even notice
<jcater> hmm
Action: jcater wonders how webware compares to mason, zope, and midgard
<chillywilly> damn skippy
<chillywilly> if it was me you would've been fish whipped with the quickness
<chillywilly> webware is yo bitch
<chillywilly> ok, so now that the real chillywilly is here you guys are going to clam up?
<chillywilly> f** you all
<chillywilly> <---adds one more *
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<fil_c> hi all
<fil_c> Well I decided to have a go and install gnue last night.... and I'm still at it
<fil_c> :(
<fil_c> I'm trying to stick to using stock redhat 7.2 wherever possible, but am having problems with PyXML
<fil_c> anyone else a redhatter?
Action: fil_c is away: I'm busy
<chillywilly> debian all the way!
Action: fil_c is back (gone 00:08:04)
<fil_c> thought you might be
<fil_c> GNUe_Common is fine
<fil_c> Part of setup.py in GNUe_Forms looks for PyXML, is installed for python-1.5, but not for python2(-2.1) which I must use for GNUe
<fil_c> Could Python2 use Python-1.5 PyXML libs?
<jamest> um
<jamest> you could copy the precompiled files but you'll get lots of warnings about differences in the API IIRC
<dneighbo> um, its jamest fault
<dneighbo> i would grab pyxml tar from sourceforge
<dneighbo> and python2 setup.py install
<dneighbo> it
<dneighbo> your problems will go away and you will be happier :)
<dneighbo> rpms right now smelly bad for python
<dneighbo> as python is in a state of moving from 1.5.2 to 2.x as official
<dneighbo> if its any consolation, we debian folks had similar fun last month as sid/woody was making the transition :)
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<fil_c> ok thanks... i'll try that if I can't get rpm --rebuild X.src.rpm to work
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<fil_c> rpm --rebuild failed...sourceforge here we come... the latest version is ok I guess
<dneighbo> should be
<dneighbo> what version of python you using again?
<fil_c> [ukpgc@flop PyXML-0.6.6]$ python2
<fil_c> Python 2.1.1 (#1, Aug 13 2001, 19:37:40) 
<fil_c> [GCC 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.1 2.96-96)] on linux2
<fil_c> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
<fil_c> >>> 
<fil_c> looking good...
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<fil_c> ... yippie forms installed
<dneighbo> cool
<dneighbo> i REALLY apologize for the inconvience, i know it 'pisses me off' when stuff has dependencies or is a pain to install
<dneighbo> we made the choice to go python 2.x because it brought us some much desired functionality and we dont expect gnue to ship with any distros until 1.5.2 has been moved and 2.x replaces in the distro's anyhow
<dneighbo> 'unfortunately' it means a little rougher first time experience in the interim :(
<dneighbo> i feel responsible as normally i am our 'red hat' tester
<dneighbo> but my rpm database is so dorked (running redhat 6.2) that when we moved to 2.x
<fil_c> I have to say this was a bit of an ordeal.  Upgrading from a mostly 7.1 redhat to python2 in 7.2 meant upgrading 34 rpms
<dneighbo> i installed EVERYTHING from source (which was remarkably clean)
<dneighbo> rpm's are evil (grin)
<dneighbo> they 'try' to understand 'dependencies' but what they really mean are what was on the 'authors' machine
<dneighbo> running 6.2 i started having problems when 7.1 hit
<dneighbo> because it had new gcc
<dneighbo> and glibc
<dneighbo> and EVERY rpm built on a 7.1 machine would want me to upgrade glibc (yeah right)
<dneighbo> but if i compiled from source or built own rpms no problem
<dneighbo> so its not that hte 'application' required a new version of glibc just the packager's machine had it
<dneighbo> i assume replacing python had a similar effect
<fil_c> I too have come from 6.2, now running Ximian Gnome and just a smiggin of 7.2 (python)
<dneighbo> so i started compiliing from source and much more like it :)
<fil_c> I didn't have to updgrade glibc, was done via Ximian
<dneighbo> HOWEVER, it defeats the purpose of having a red hat machine, which is to test gnue on :)
<dneighbo> i was dumb and tried ximian early on
<dneighbo> red carpet dorked my rpm db
<fil_c> one you start compiling on a redhat machine I tend to find myself going down a slippery slope
<dneighbo> to point gnorpm and red carpet stopped working
<dneighbo> BUT command line rpm worked :)
<dneighbo> i used that for a bit especially after figuring out that 
<dneighbo> rpm -Uvh http://somedomain.com/pathto/myrpm.rpm
<fil_c> I had that for a bit... the early redcarpets were buggy... not had any problems now
<dneighbo> owrked :)
<fil_c> The install for GNUe-Forms is a bit cryptic about sys.path.  Could be useful to say something like:
<fil_c> Ensure PYTHONPATH env variable is set to /usr/local/gnue/lib/python
<fil_c> Hrm... getting error in GDataObjects.py when trying gfclient samples/helloworld2.gfd
<fil_c> ... because I'm running python1.5 still
<dneighbo> yes
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> i wouldnt use helloworld
<dneighbo> i woudl use
<dneighbo> samples/intro/
<dneighbo> but i assume that yes your gfcvs link or gfclient link is calling python
<dneighbo> instead of python2
<fil_c> dead right
<dneighbo> fil_c THANK YOU for being patient by the way
<dneighbo> believe me the long term of GNUe is that no one has to fight like this to install things :)
<fil_c> no... no... Thank you for helping me out
<dneighbo> the windows installer is a good example of this
<dneighbo> i think my 3 year old might be able to handle the windows install
<dneighbo> jcater / jamest can we do anything in setup.py to help test for version 2?
<dneighbo> and help fix things?
<dneighbo> and output error messages on pyxml (as that is the one that has bit most folks)
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> I thought it did check versions
<dneighbo> jcater : i think it checks python version
<dneighbo> so it says it bitches hey python 2.x isnt installed
<dneighbo> but not sure if it bitches if you say
<dneighbo> have 1.5.2 and 2.x
<dneighbo> and install pyxml for 1.5.2 and not 2.x
<fil_c> yes... it bitches
<dneighbo> or if it fails we should be more specific in the error message
<dneighbo> to check and make sure it installed where it should
<dneighbo> if it doesnt already do that :)
<jcater> the whole thing needs reworking
<jcater> and I've started some stuff wrt that
<dneighbo> then on the gfclient/gfcvs we need to make it say python2
<dneighbo> or what not as that has bit a few folks too
<dneighbo> jcater cool
<dneighbo> fil_c we promise your pain is not going unrecognized
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<fil_c> Yes Yes Yes.... we have a form... 
<dneighbo> fil_c and there was much rejoicing
<dneighbo> that the intro form that you have working?
<dneighbo> now comes the fun part, getting databinding to work :)
<fil_c> yep intro.gfd .... after i'd tweaked the first line of gfclient
<dneighbo> actually its quite simple once you have a driver installed :)
<dneighbo> what db are you using
<dneighbo> if you have time i will walk you through it ( i have a few minutes left on lunch break)
<fil_c> I'm worried that gfcvs is a broken sylink
<dneighbo> how did you install forms?
<dneighbo> python setup.py install
<dneighbo> or
<dneighbo> python setup.py devel
<fil_c> from the tarball on the website
<fil_c> sorry... install
<dneighbo> if you did install and not devel then ignore gfcvs (it shouldnt matter) just use gfclient
<fil_c> ding.... 
<dneighbo> gfcvs is a way of doing some magic to make things run out of a developer tree
<dneighbo> if you did the 'install' and gfclient works you shoudl be good to go :)
<fil_c> excellent.  I'm running mysql
<dneighbo> hmm
Action: dneighbo hasnt done a lot of mysql playing
<fil_c> but not via an RPM... I really prefer postgreql
<fil_c> but my web host has mysql...
<dneighbo> jcater do you know what driver to use for mysql?
<jcater> sf.net/projects/mysql-python/
<jcater> iirc
<dneighbo> i have only tested gnue against mysql with odbc on windows
<dneighbo> fil_c grab that from the link jcater posted
<dneighbo> install it with python2 
<dneighbo> let me know how it goes and i will walk you through configuring gnue to work with it
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<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> we thought our installer was tough
<dneighbo> the mysql-python installer crashed his machine ;)
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<fil_c> isp kickoff 
<fil_c> ok installed mysql-python-0.9.1-1py2.i386.rpm (is the rpm ok?)
<dneighbo> as long as it installed to proper python its ok :)
<fil_c> yep... checked it's in /usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages
<dneighbo> ok cool
<dneighbo> go to 
<dneighbo>  /usr/local/gnue/etc
<dneighbo> there shoudl be a file called sample.connections.conf
<fil_c> yep
<fil_c> copied it
<dneighbo> cp it in same dir to connections.conf
<dneighbo> cool
<dneighbo> edit it
<dneighbo> the first 'node' should be [devel]
<dneighbo> change the host = gnue
<dneighbo> to 
<dneighbo> host = ip(or)hostname of your db server
<dneighbo> and cange dbname = developer to
<fil_c> localhost
<dneighbo> dbname = nameofdbinmysql
<dneighbo> what is your dbname?
<fil_c> gnue-dev
<dneighbo> [devel]
<dneighbo> comment = GNUe Sample Connection for MySQL based developer database
<dneighbo> provider = mysql
<dneighbo> host = localhost
<dneighbo> dbname = gnue-dev
<dneighbo> is what that node should look like
<dneighbo> save the file
<fil_c> yep.. no problems
<dneighbo> does gnue-dev contain any tables?
<fil_c> nope there is not even a db in mysql yet... have to remember how I did that... (soo long ago)
<dneighbo> ok you need to create the db
<dneighbo> and create one or more tables
<dneighbo> then check back here and we can go to next step
<dneighbo> mysql
<dneighbo> CREATE DATABASE gnue-dev;
<dneighbo> should work (iirc)
<dneighbo> i.e. get into a mysql term and issue that command
<dneighbo> i think there is also like mysqladmin or something too
Action: dneighbo stopped using mysql a while back
<fil_c> curse-swear... can't remember the admin pw
<dneighbo> fil_c that i cant help you with :)
<fil_c> created... just got to sort out the grant access
<dneighbo> ok
<dneighbo> table created too?
<fil_c> getting there... still on grant... it was ages since I last used mysql
<fil_c> phew
<fil_c> create table suppliers (suno integer, nama char(80)) ;
<fil_c> just having a look at some of the .gfd's very cool stuff
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<dneighbo> damn i hope fil_c got things working :(
<dneighbo> i had to run for a bit
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<grib> any of you gnue folks used the current tools to do inventory/asset lifetime management? 
<dneighbo> yes
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<dneighbo> though your question is slightly misleading
<grib> whaddaya mean misleading? 
<dneighbo> well i see inventory and assest managment as diff side of same coin :)
<dneighbo> so im not sure what side you want to look at :)
<dneighbo> the assest lifetime management makes me think you are looking at something like a assests that dereciate
<dneighbo> or need maintenance
<dneighbo> or are 'capital' of a sort
<dneighbo> opposed to 'on hand' type inventory used in production or for sale
<dneighbo> i.e. are looking at something to inventory your assests :)
<dneighbo> or something that does 'inventory' and 'asset management'
<dneighbo> we have used gnue in 'inventory' like production inventory capacity
<dneighbo> hmmm, must have scared him off :)
<grib> nope, just in the other window for a bit
<dneighbo> grib has derek atkins started checking in his stuff?
<dneighbo> and if so is it usable at all?
Action: dneighbo is just curious, been too lazy to grab latest CVS
<grib> dneighbo: no idea.  most of the changes going on right now are far away from the quickbooksy stuff. 
<grib> we are really focusing on the embedded aspects of the gnucash engine
<grib> because of the point of sale stuff my guys are working on
<grib> dneighbo: I have some stuff you might be interested in at least looking at ... we have a scheme lib that makes glade guis data aware
<grib> so you can write almost all of a nice db app strictly within glade
<grib> I know you guys are all cross platform and all that but it's still nice :)
Nick change: rm-away -> reinhard
<Mr_You> hi guys
<dneighbo> yeah, but we have that capability for a while :)
<dneighbo> and its cross platform
<reinhard> grib: is it possible that your real name is bill gribble?
<dneighbo> i havent written a db app for linux yet
<dneighbo> where i had to fuss with internals of a db
Action: dneighbo lied my original designer hack i had to
<grib> reinhard: that's me
<dneighbo> but noneless its nice for people using glade
<Mr_You> has the GNUe Forms web driver been updated in CVS?
<dneighbo> grib are you looking for samples of inventory/asset managment
<dneighbo> or looking to use gnue?
<jcater> hehe
<jcater> we have a "Why Not Glade" in our faq now
<jcater> :)
<grib> dneighbo: just looking for info to file away.  I'm working on a asset lifetime tracker (using some of our tools) for a client and wondering if gnue had some insight to offer
<dneighbo> yeah let me dig some up
<dneighbo> we have no problem sharing :)
<jamest> Mr_You: nope, it's a holiday break project :)
<grib> or failing that just pointers on pitfalls and possible bonus points for that kind of app, regardless of implementation framework :)
<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/packages/supply-chain/package-doc/SupplyChain/inventory.html
<dneighbo> is some inventory info
<grib> thx.  how's the gnue financial stuff coming along?  saw a mention on the KC
<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/packages/supply-chain/package-doc/SupplyChain/equipment.html
<dneighbo> is the capital management (or assest stuff)
<dneighbo> dont know how much meat are in these
<dneighbo> might be worth looking at 
<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/packages/supply-chain/package-doc/SupplyChain/
<dneighbo> as a whole
<dneighbo> feel free to comment on them etc
<dneighbo> we are always interested in feed back
<Mr_You> jamest: does that mean it gets worked on during the break or break is happening so no work?
<dneighbo> grib financials are coming slowly, we havent really focused on them
<jamest>  it gets worked on during the break
<dneighbo> still playing a lot with the tools
<jamest> i keep hoping to catch madlocke in here
<dneighbo> it looks like our 'manufacturing' stuff and 'wholesale distribution' stuff will be the first to come
<dneighbo> as there are people asking for them
<jamest> to see if he got his savannah account up and running
<dneighbo> grib : do you have a python binding to your ledger?
<dneighbo> or is it only scheme?
Action: dneighbo thinks you would get a lot more help and users if it were both scheme and python
<grib> dneighbo: just scheme and perl 
<dneighbo> hmmm
<dneighbo> so if you support perl
<dneighbo> i suppose its only a swig away from python
<grib> perl support is via swig but half baked.
<dneighbo> i suppose one could write to the postgres tables directly
<dneighbo> and bypass any api
<grib> so I guess you could also get half baked python. 
<dneighbo> but thats evil :)
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<dneighbo> neilt must have heard us swearing about him or something
Action: neilt ears were getting sore
<neilt> sup
<grib> scheme is supported best because that's what the developers use.  I'm sure if contributors interested in python pop up (hint hint) they could get it rolling pretty quick. 
Action: grib doesn't have much use for python
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<jcater> hehe
<jcater> chillywilly_: I actually disabled that in bigbrother a week or so ago
<jcater> so I don't know why he's still doing it
<jcater> I guess he enjoyed it too much :)
<pattieja> dneighbo: what all does your timekeeping app. do?
<pattieja> dneighbo: were you able to make any progress with SandSurfer
<pattieja> ?
Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<chillywilly> just face it jcater
<chillywilly> you are lame
<jcater> I try
<chillywilly> and succees
<chillywilly> succeed even
<jcater> you know you love me
<chillywilly> ummmm, nope
<chillywilly> I love to insult you
<chillywilly> this is true
<jamest> now on radio WGNE "Everybody wants you" going out to chillywilly
<jamest> er, jcater that is
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<jcater>  /msg jamest he really gets all warm and fuzzy each time he logs in and sees that... makes him think we notice he's here
<chillywilly>  /msg jamest jcater is the one who wants to be noticed as taking the time to program the bot, Imean why else would he get so giddie everytime he sees it
<jcater>  /msg jamest I guess you are the referee
<jcater>  /msg jamest 'cause we keep /msg'ing you
<jcater>  /msg jamest only we aren't really /msg'ing you
Action: chillywilly strangles jcater with a doohicky mouse chord
<jcater> doohicky?
<jcater> is that a Wisconsin computer supplier?
<chillywilly> it is a common apt bot lart
<chillywilly> you would know that if you hung out in #debian that great channel of never ending help ;)
<jamest> :)
Action: chillywilly winders why he has ide jumpers lying on his desk
<chillywilly> jcater: you trying to make me a slave drive?
<jcater> nah
<chillywilly> to your AI
<jcater> cable-selectable
<jcater>  "/dev/chillywilly not a block device"
<chillywilly> heh
<jamest> i'd love to stay and watch this
<jamest> but I must leave
<jamest> bbl
<jcater>  "/dev/chillywilly appears to be a link to /dev/random"
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<chillywilly> mount /dev/jcater 
<jcater> ew!
<jcater> please don't do that
<chillywilly> mount: No medium found
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<chillywilly> feh, you only wish I meant it that way
Action: chillywilly slaps jcater with the trout o' death
<chillywilly> mv jcater /dev/null
<jcater> cannot move jcater onto itself
<chillywilly> man you make it no fun when you start insulting yourself
Action: chillywilly does the mexican hat dance on jcater
Action: jcater wonders just what chillywilly does at work
Action: chillywilly is off of work
Action: chillywilly is at home now
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<fil_c> hi... anyone around?
<chillywilly> yep
<jbailey> no
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<fil_c> dereks just got me up and running with forms.
<fil_c> Some questions:  How about multiple languages?  each .gfd file is language specific
<fil_c> And how to cater for different lengths of text for each language?
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<fil_c> How about zooming from one field to another?
<fil_c> How about changing the sort order?
<fil_c> And... what's the best place for me to get involved with?
<jcater> fil_c: the next release of GNUe Forms intends to address several of these
<jcater> we are reworking the backend to the UI system 
<jcater> to allow for resorting, better query support (lookup forms)
<chillywilly> and it will make coffee too ;)
<jcater> not sure what you mean about zooming from field to field
<jcater> also, we are going to try to better incorporate i18n into the next release
<jcater> but we are still up in arms about how to do it
<jcater> as right now, you are right, a separate gfd is required for each language
<jcater> although I think if people use GEAS as the backend, it might be able to (at some point) dynamically generate the gfd with the user's correct language
<jcater> don't quote me on that though
<jcater> do you have immediate i18n needs?
<jcater> we have quite a few international users who keep reminding us of where we're lacking :)
<jcater> also, please get involved whereever you feel comfortable
<jcater> ;)
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<chillywilly> oh crap
<chillywilly> stop following me crazymike!
<chillywilly> ;P
<crazymike> HAHAHAHAHA
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<chillywilly> heh
<fil_c> no... I don't have i18n needs but I think it might be an idea to split each gfd into two parts.  Multiple language specific interface files for one trigger file.
<fil_c> when I say "zooming" I mean opening a sub-window to say pick a supplier from a list of suppliers when entering a purchase order.
<jcater> yes
<jcater> that is one of our short-term needs
<jcater> and is tied into resorting
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<fil_c> Another reason for splitting gfd files into two parts, it would make end user personalisation (e.g. (re)moving the fields on a form easier)
<jcater> definitely worth considering
<jcater> what would you split?
<fil_c> 1. triggers. still leave the xml definition <trigger type="xxxx" name="trigger_1"\>, but the action occurs in a trigger file
<jcater> we can do that now with <import-trigger>
<jcater> as that has many other advantages too
<jcater> such as trigger reuse
<jcater> it may not be exactly what you are referring to, but you can put all your triggers in another file and just put an <import-trigger library="filename" name=...> in your gfd
<jcater> btw, this works with most objects (datasources, etc) to promote reuse
<fil_c> that sounds like a very good idea.
<jcater> but that certainly doesn't solve the multi-language problem
<fil_c> hmmm... one way could be to move all "language" to just be labels.
<fil_c> then the actual text for the labels be defined multiple times per label, each for differing languages and each for differing lenghts. e.g. "Purchase Order" or "Purch Ord"
<fil_c> another way could be to copy each .gfd to each language. e.g. trigger-en.gfd, trigger-de.gfd
<fil_c> or a combination or both of the above
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> so you could define all the non-labels in a common .gfd file
<jcater> and the file-??.gfd could define the labels in that language but import all the other entries
<jcater> (you can do global imports -- i.e., import everything from a file)
<jcater> I'm not sure if that's the ideal long-term solution
<fil_c> yes.... but if I understand you correctly this doesn't cater for different positioning of form objects due to differing language lengths.
<jcater> but it actually may work out of the box right now
<jcater> that is a current problem
<jcater> we currently only support absolute positioning
<jcater> which is fine if the form never changes
<jcater> the goal is to support different "layout" methods
<fil_c> sure... I dont think you should support relative 
<jcater> how would you do dynamic length labels in an absolute system
<jcater> btw, I don't care for relative myself :)
<fil_c> aside: I'm probably being to arrogant here - so please tell me to shut up if you like
<fil_c> I dont think that's possible.  It would require a separate .gfd for each language 
<fil_c> But still keeping the labels separate... this then give the ability to change the meaning of a label.
<fil_c> e.g.  Zip Code -> Post Code
<fil_c> but do it across all the forms in gnue at once.
<jcater> the main drawback to this method is that if a form is changed (rearranged) you have to modify every language file, instead of changing just one
<jcater> or am I misunderstanding you
<jcater> or that the translator would also have to worry about positioning as well as translation
<jcater> this may not be a bad thing
<jcater> but I'm not sure
Action: jcater is speaking abstractly because he only knows english so will probably never participate in any translation :)
Action: fil_c laughs... likewise
<fil_c> yes problem... perhaps we could make the alternate language forms optional - treat english as a master and use it and it's position but with foriegn labels if a specific foriegn form doesn't exist.
<fil_c> Is there any menu/process flow interface planned?
<jcater> yes
<jcater> that is under discussion
<jcater> lemme look for my link
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> it's here somewhere
<jcater> but I have to run
<jcater> if derek pops back in, I think he has a link
<fil_c> thanks for the talking jason
<jcater> ah
<jcater> here's the start of the conversation
<jcater> http://lists.gnue.org/pipermail/gnue-accounting/2001-July/000062.html
<jcater> later
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<neilt> are we still talking about language
<neilt> ?
<neilt> and is that 2 tier or n-tier
<neilt> too bad i missed it
<Mr_You> hey madlocke, I'm looking to begin using the GNUe Forms functionality for 2 tier..
<Mr_You> you have any speculation on CVS check in time frame?
<madlocke> hey great...
<Mr_You> umm.. I meant GNUe Forms web interface heh
<Mr_You> left that ot
<madlocke> did understand...
<madlocke> i am doing a rewrite at the moment because some things are really ugly
<madlocke> last week my phone line was down :(
<madlocke> working on layout manager...
<madlocke> basic functions of this work for html and for wxwindows...
<Mr_You> ok
<madlocke> need to talk to james a bit...
Action: Mr_You updates phpPgAdmin ;-)
<Mr_You> hmm
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Action: chillywilly thinks jcater needs to fix the bot
<chillywilly> it's not funny anymore
<jcater> is it still doing it?
<chillywilly> [18:32:01] * bigbrother slaps chillywilly with a smelly trout!
<jcater> would you prefer a perfumed trout?
<jcater> should be gone now :)
<chillywilly> I would prefer not getting slapped
<chillywilly> plz
Action: jcater is gonna miss it, though
<chillywilly> I bet
<chillywilly> I don;t need bits beating me up
<chillywilly> I do that enough myself
Action: chillywilly leaps off a bridge
<chillywilly> s/bits/bots
Action: madlocke sees chillywilly fallin and fallin and .... splash...
<madlocke> ;)
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<jamest> howdy
<jcater> 'sup?
<jamest> just got here
<jcater> ah
<jamest> getting ready to play with geas
<jcater> me too
<chillywilly> no
<chillywilly> stay away
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> you keep breaking it
<chillywilly> I'm going to tell your mom
<jamest> ok, I'll stay away from geas stuff
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> mom, jamest keeps breaking our toys
<jamest> nope, nothing geas on my plate now
Action: jamest does a happy dance
<jcater> cool
<jcater> let's start the ui rewrite then
<chillywilly> but does the forms driver work?
<chillywilly> if not, you better get cracking then ;)
<jamest> chillywilly: no, but I don't want to upset people
<jcater> you just told him to stay away from geas
<jamest> so I'll leave it alone
<chillywilly> ummm, my mom said you could play wiht it
<chillywilly> go right ahead
<chillywilly> it is out of my hands now
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<jcater> ah
<chillywilly> thank you
<jcater> I guess a kill -HUP doesn't reset him
<chillywilly> sheesh
<jcater> oh, don't be so melodramatic
Action: chillywilly will never trout slap anyone again
<jcater> you know you liked it
<jcater> ;)
Action: chillywilly trout slaps jcater hard
<chillywilly> I lied
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<derek> any cat lovers here...........
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> I got 2 of them that I'd like to give away
<derek> well i have a funny yet tragic cat story
<chillywilly> ok
<derek> but wont tell it if it would offend anyone
<chillywilly> nah
<chillywilly> they'e just road frisbeees after all
<chillywilly> ;P
<derek> ok let me preface this by saying i have 3 sisters
<derek> all blonde's
<derek> my sister has 4 kids
<derek> she got 3 of the kids kittens a while back 
<derek> (3 kids == 3 kittens)
<derek> well one day the kids put all the kitties in the microwave
<derek> BUT
<derek> they didnt turn it on, they just told mom how they could fit ALL three in
<derek> well i guess one of the kitty's likes to sleep in the dryer after laundry is done
<derek> normally my sister takes it out when she is done
<derek> well this weekend her husband reached in for a sweatshirt and it was still a little 'wet'
<derek> so he turned that puppy back on
<derek> (without checking for kitty)
<derek> poor kitty is no more
<jcater> ooooo
<derek> sad but humorous, for those of us who just cant 'get into kitties'
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<derek> moral of the story:
<derek> if you want your clothes to dry properly, remove cat
<chillywilly> I think you have to be a cold hearted bastrd not to think they are cute
<chillywilly> but that's my opinion
<chillywilly> :P
<derek> oh they are ADORABLE
<derek> but they turn into cats :)
<chillywilly> ah yes
<chillywilly> I don;t liek t hose too much
<chillywilly> I see your point
<chillywilly> ;P
<derek> believe me it is sad
<chillywilly> yea....
<derek> very very sad
<derek> and tragic
<chillywilly> but one less cat in the world ;)
<derek> but its just so darn 'silly' its hard not to laugh
<derek> kind of thing you 'joke about doing to a cat', but would never really do
<derek> i had time tonight and had to do bills instead
<derek> grib: should i try to use gnucash in the new year?
Action: derek has been saying that for 3 years now.....
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<jamest> had a kid in school that had something similar happen w/ cat
<jamest> the dryer cooked the sink off it
<jamest> IIRC they threw out all the clothes in the dryer as they were covered in cooked in blood
<derek> jamest: i have no idea the state of this cat
<derek> guess my sister was pretty freaked though
<derek> so imagine it wasnt 'purdy'
<derek> we need to sell some gnue goodies so i can afford to send postcards out for NY :)
<derek> jcater: the stuff for NY has been arriving here over past two weeks, dont think anything need to forward on the booth manual is pretty basic, more for people with money that have 'deadlines' to buy stuff :)
<derek> and have tons of free exhibit passes to mail out
<derek> prolly 100 postcards
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<chillywilly> heh
Action: chillywilly should hitc hike to NY
<chillywilly> hicth
<jcater> hicth?
<chillywilly> hitch
<chillywilly> stop making fun of me
Action: jcater pokes at chillywilly
<chillywilly> I got other ppl that I want to see at LWE
<jcater> how far away are you?
<chillywilly> wisconsin
<jcater> um
<jcater> I'm in the south and didn't do well in us geography
<chillywilly> my buddy who I worked with drove to NYC
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> I am by Lake Michigan
<chillywilly> north of illinois
<chillywilly> minnesota to the west
<chillywilly> bordering lake michigan on the east
<chillywilly> does that help?
<jcater> um
<jcater> sure
<jcater> so how far are you from NYC?
<chillywilly> veyr far
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> I dunno the exact mileage
<chillywilly> 16-20 hrs drive
<jcater> ah
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<derek> hi gowlin
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<gowlin> hey
<derek> jcater: as to fil_c's stuff
<derek> he seems to be describing the lookup box i keep bitching aqbout :)
<jcater> I know
<jcater> I said that, I thought
<derek> as for muliti language i still think we shoudl use 'entities'
<derek> so you can define entity files for incluces then do substitute
<derek> so you might have
<derek> <label value=&somevale; x=1 y=1/>
<derek> and in the entity file it makes
<derek> somevale to each language
<derek> so all you have to do is change the entity tag in the form to your country code
<derek> and separating triggers like you stated that is doable today :)
<derek> i have to run, will be back later
<jcater> interesting
<jcater> that doesn't address dynamically sized labels tho
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<Yurik> re
<chillywilly> ello
<chillywilly> anyone else up?
<chillywilly> masta?
<Yurik> chillywilly hello
<Mr_You> re
<chillywilly> I need postal adresses form you guys
<chillywilly> :)
<Yurik> form?
<chillywilly> from
<chillywilly> sorr i wlasy mistype that word
<chillywilly> feh
<chillywilly> my typing is sucking
<Yurik> what for? :))
<chillywilly> christman cards
<chillywilly> christmas
<chillywilly> :)
<Yurik> :))))
<Yurik> heh
<Mr_You> you mean paper?  ;-)
<chillywilly> yep
<chillywilly> just email me your postal addresss
<Yurik> chillywilly what is your e-mail? :)
<chillywilly> danielb@freedevelopers.net
<Mr_You> create a GNUe snail mail mailing list
<Yurik> chillywilly as you want.. sent
<Yurik> chillywilly :)
<chillywilly> thanks
<Yurik> chillywilly but I'm too far away... :)
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--- Tue Dec 18 2001