[00:29] Last message repeated 1 time(s). dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.." reinhard (~rm@N804P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. colonel (arun@202.88.232.184) left irc: "[x]chat" reinhard (rm@N804P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Ping timeout: 180 seconds Isomer (dahoose@210-86-57-89.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Remote closed the connection Isomer (dahoose@210-86-57-89.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~rm@62.47.44.109) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Ping timeout: 180 seconds Nick change: alexey -> alexey_away Nick change: alexey_away -> alexey neilt (~neilt@dhcp64-134-54-175.chan.dca.wayport.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. morning all reinhard: you around reinhard: when you come back, i am curious if you saw the emails regarding GDataObject.txt, I am curious on your take before i proceed further. Maybe I just dont understand where we are at with GEAS/Common integration. later all neilt (neilt@dhcp64-134-54-175.chan.dca.wayport.net) left irc: Client Quit *********************************** neilt: i saw the mails i think some of the misunderstandings are because the GDataObject stuff concerns geas in 2 ways: madlocke (~hufzgufz@pD9523DA1.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. madlocke (hufzgufz@pD9523DA1.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Client Quit a. forms will use a GEAS driver in GDataObject to access geas b. geas will/might use GDataObject to access the SQL backends and i am still not sure which one you and jcater are/were talking about i am even not sure if you are talking about the same also i think you would have to make clear whether you talk about interface or implementation because GDataObject is in any case a client side library (in the case of a. forms is the client, in b. GEAS is the client to the sql backend) so between GDataObject and the caller there is no network connection and no corba (in neither case) however i got the feeling that the GDataObject.txt file is quite outdated P.S. i am going to be virtually non-existant for the next month so feel free to discuss this topic further with jcater w/o me *********************************** colonel (~arun@202.88.232.184) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away colonel (arun@202.88.232.184) left irc: Client Quit jcater (~jason@24.92.70.201) joined #gnuenterprise. alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" dnZzzz (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: dnZzzz -> derek chillywilly (~danielb@d174.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3639415.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. sevik (~seva@domino-web.kiev.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. hey jbailey Heya chillywilly chillywilly: Thought you were working today? I am at work =) :P derek: morning jbailey: he's hard at work apparently :) look who's talking ;) Action: jcater is off until Jan oh lucky you Action: jcater is watching crafts shows on HGTV ;) maybe I should try quilting ;) heh I keep meaning to take up knitting in my spare time. Action: chillywilly needs to find a real job But I haven't had spare time in so long... I need to find one for mike too ;) chillywilly: have you considered being a talk radio host they get to bitch alot ;) rofl hey jcater well mr. VP of IS you really don't have much to complain about now do you? bah it's all on paper the pay can't be too bad bah it's all on paper Ah! Stock options! =) you're a fool then Free toilet paper... :) I've got some of that. what have you been doing with yourself jbailey ? Errr, in like 6 companies. you help to perpetuate the man's stanlgehold on us strangle hold even ;P chillywilly: I've got a main client. 2 or 3 days a week at a Mutual Fund company. Starting January I've got a contract 1 day a week doing documentation (Turns into full-time work after my wedding in April). I've been doing a bunch of non-paying for for an ISP that I part-own on the west coast, and that will likely turn into at least a part-time paying job in August. And I've been trying to do some contract programming on the side (doing badly at that, might have lost the client *Sigh* bad time management on my part with him), and other troubleshooting as people are willing to pay. (Maybe 10h/month) cool you don't need the man chillywilly: Nah, I'm straight. =) what was the contract programming stuff for? Designing a website for an economist. er, ok Sorry, I signed an NDA. whatever for? To make enough money to pay Rent. =) Otherwise I try to avoid them. mike says I am not lazy as doing the panel job doesn't rewuire you to do a whole lot so I can hang out wiht you fine ppl so there :P how does design web sites equate to programming eh? designing you get to do some scripting or what/? web apps are gay The whole thing will be line 30,000 lines of perl or php when I'm done. I see you've been wheeling and dealing python python python crap i need to go to work bbl bi derek bye, rather. *sigh* cya wass-a-mata rule #1 no sighing in #gnuenterprise or you bwill pay with a trout to the head :P chillywilly: Do you know how to kill a vegetarian? uuuuuh chillywilly: Drive a steak through his heart. heh damn it's cold in here Action: chillywilly puts on his jacket no more being naked at work, chillywilly! bummer Action: chillywilly looks for a new job where he can be naked talk radio! you can be the howard stern of free software haha and have like half-naked trout on and stuff ok, now you are just being lame you've gone too far the joke has gone south ok only fully-clothed trout Action: jcater makes a note in his idea book South. I bet there's no snow if I go far enough south... there's no snow here we got snow it is actualy cold up here now it was unseasonably warm for a while dres (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. sup dneighbo ? hey chillywilly, how was christmas? Maniac (~User@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo: He learned a fine appreciation for his cats, and shared with them the love of Christmas. rofl dsmith (~dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. heheh dneighbo christmas was good not long enough though you guys hear of honeynet before? no wassat? an expirement to track hacking tendencies? basically some scientists set up a network unadvertised and monitored it for hacks hacking as in tose who like to prpgram and being clever at it? they claim over 11 month period program dneighbo: I read a few articles from /. about it. the box got 'scanned' for vulenrabilities about 14 times a day that's not hacking it's cracking ok chilly 'cracked' "cracking" don't buy intot he media hype dneighbo ;) lameing btw: i think trying to distinguish the difference between a hack and a crack is lame and is BUYING into media more than not uh, no i think of cracking/hacking as different activities of which BOTH have a 'good' and 'bad' side The box was lame, and lamers got into it. Action: dsmith trieds to invent new terminology dsmith : yes, but the point was that if you put a box on the net know what you are doing to a degree or the lamers will touch you :) Right. i.e. they werent claiming 'the sky is falling' every box on the net is owned rather they were stating that if you put a box on the net without telling a soul, within 3 days expect someone to try to crack it That's why my box that connects to the big I Internet runs OpenBSD. of course anyone monitoring their home broadband connection knows this a hacker is one who enjoys prpogramming and being clever at it -- RMS but its good to see some slightly more 'empirical' evidence chillywilly that is definition of a cracker too no it isn't It's amazing how many companies have their whole lan on the internet. Real ip addresses on every box. in sense of i have not met many good crackers that were not enjoying programming and very clever at it i agree that saying hacker can cause confusing but im sick of 'word' games you think call it 'free' software doesnt cause confusion? 99% of people when they hear 'free software' think of 'freeware' not freedom so citing RMS as an authority on good naming ettiqute in my opinion is a poor choice ;) not our fault that the english language is lame whatever he is brillant in many ways, but for the english language i think its better to leave to english professors :) plz At one time. Long long ago, real hackers could/did break in because it was a challenge. dneighbo just admit it you suffer from jcater syndrome Now it's the skript kiddies who know nothing but how to install a rootkit who claim to be "hackers" in that you love to argue with me about every damn thing under the sun dsmith see i generally call script kiddies and game reverse engineering 'cracking' i call really incredible 'cracks' that are done by pros still 'hacking' (just black hat hacking) and of course anyone maninuplationg a phone system is still a phreaker in my book yes. Main Entry: hack?er Pronunciation: 'ha-k&r Function: noun Date: 14th century 1 : one that hacks 2 : a person who is inexperienced or unskilled at a particular activity 3 : an expert at programming and solving problems with a computer 4 : a person who illegally gains access to and sometimes tampers with information in a computer system now chillywilly i know you have media aversions, BUT generally its easier to accept major dictionaries definitions of words if you want people to understand you :) ok, so if you day hey I am going to hack on GNUe then that means you are trying to break into some box? no it means im an 'expert' at programming and solving problems with gnue :) thisd is not hre common perception if you call yourself a hacker point being like the gnu/linux vs linux thing defintiion or nodefintiion sometimes you just have to clarify yourself jcater syndrome? there are SO MANY better things we could do in the 'war' Action: jcater won't touch that with a 10 ft stick :) but anyway, you;d rather insult me and te;; me I have "aversions" and trying to 'redefine' commonly accepted nomenclature is just silly yes and the whole open source thing really helped define it too btw: i might have jcs (jason cater syndrome) that's a much better term i have been buying hostess mini chocolate donuts every day for past two weeks and got compelled to buy 2 dozen donuts while visiting relatives ..... chillywilly listen to my arguments :) I simply do not agree i think 'free software' was the nomenclature of the community and OPEN SOURCE was the one that was stupid to try to REDEFINE it so in that instance THEY were the ones wasting the time and diverting the effort just like i think FSF is one doing that in case of linux vs gnu/linux yes ands the original meaning of the term hacker is not one who breaks into computer sthat was redefined by the media also chillywilly i disagree it was meant simply as someone BRILLIANT with computers it DID NOT DEFINE whether they used that talent for good or bad if you look at the dictionary entry i pasted it shows a definition which supports both the good and the bad side its like piracy no such thing while i agree 100% with RMS that calling it 'piracy' is the stupidest thing in the world trying to avoid a commonly accepted word when talking with people is just lunacy IMHO there are so many better things you could do :) i guess to me an analogy would be if i have a medical condition well I don't see you doing anything about it though and you are right at the man's ear i want the doctor to talk in terms I UNDERSTAND not terms that are more 'correct' that he understands maybe you should go be a talk radio guy according to jc that's what ppl who bitch a lot do so when we talk to certain people i think getting them to get the 'overall' picture is much more important than trying to win a 'word war' with them Action: jcater thinks dneighbo would also be a good talk show host he likes to talk alot ;) dneighbo the naming issue is not a big deal to me I still call it linux so ppl know wtf I am tlaking about jcater : yep, the first rule of radio : 'no dead air' chillywilly yes, and mind you i agree with RMS' philosphy of why he thinks some of these things are 'bad' i just dont agree that ramming them down peoples throats helps our cause (imho) if i want to sell someone on the benefits of free software and i only have 1 hour damn it is cold in heree! and i spend 10 minutes explaining why its gnu/linux vs linux, and 10 minutes on why its cracker instead of hacker and 10 minutes on why pirate is a bad word and 20 minutes on how evil term open source is i am only left 10 minutes to explain to them the benefits of our community and if you think im exaggerating, spend a day in a FSF booth some time I think that is lame of RMS to do and you should already know that and we shoul;dn't be arguing about stuff that we agree with first thing... if you are *telling* them about free software, you are wasting your effort... if you show them examples that apply to them, you have said more than you possibly could with your mouth jcater : i slightly disagree with that i think its a combination besides, Taxes, Finances, Politics, and Free Software don't make good party conversationsd i think one needs to SHOW them things to proof the viablity, but i think its also good to explain what it is :) unless it's an accounting or coding party rofl Action: dneighbo is laughing at the idea of accountants and programmers 'partying' i have been to both kinds of parties and they are well, interesting :) dude... the accountants around here at Deloit & Touche (sp?) are hell-bent on being cool so they have the *wildest* parties that are so out of character DT folks are weird that way. Same with PWC. jcater i think they just watched 'the firm' one too many times or something :) seriously "Tell them we are not Gods, but SysAdmins, which is the next best thing." bean cxounters must die a friends tag line on an email today :) the BOFH is God muuwahahhahhaa Bums Of Free-software Hangouts? yes, i.e. you Action: pattieja is away: upgrading firmware in SCSI tape drive, see ya pattieja (pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection AND ME woops capslock dneighbo defintiely is a bofh I thought you were just excited about being a bum hehe thast too Action: chillywilly is standing up typing at thids laptop it is too cold to sit down I have to keep moving around to sdtay warm they need to turn the fucking hesat on alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. l8r peeps word to yo mutha chillywilly (danielb@d174.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: "[BX] The birds kept calling his name, thought Caw" joebullhead (~joe@h-64-105-244-252.ATLNGAHP.covad.net) joined #gnuenterprise. alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: Ping timeout: 180 seconds joebullhead: howdy does anyone know if 802.11b is line of sight? i assumed it was NOT, but some folks seem to be claiming it is dunno If what they have at the GBC office in Montreal is 802.11b, it's not line of site. is that the wireless lan spec? One of, but yeah. yes several groups are building a 'free internet' seattle wireless being the most famed im trying to start one in gilbert http://www.extremetech.com/article/0,3396,s%253D1024%2526a%253D13880,00.asp so that if i get an ipaq or such i will have free internet anywhere in gilbert kind of an 'internet' co=op there are TWO ways of doing it well, I guess for an "internet" that article is good :) one is having people share their REAL internet bandwidth over 802.11b which most wont do and wont sustain over long haul as the CORPORATIONS will shut them down eventually the other one is to REBUILD the internet with wireless and cut out the telcos dneighbo: American law appears to be screwed up on that point. i.e. everyone on a block create 802.11 In Canada, if it's in the airwaves, it's public domain. which then connects to the next block and the next block etc like 'old skool' internet that was mainly govt and universities jbailey well the impeding things here in the states (iirc) are that the FCC regulates how much you can 'modify' the signal which will make it hard to jump from say phoenix to losangeles as you would have to boost the signal too much I'd be very afraid to share my bandwidth and its too costly to put stations all the way there from something that doesnt make money i.e., let ppl using wireless use my cable modem connection jcater: well most are which is why that scenario doesnt happen a 'lot' as aren't I liable for whatever happens via my connection? but there is still great value in my opinion on creating a neighborhood lan that isnt connected to the real 'internet' with the hopes that over time neighborhoods would continue this and some day perhaps we would again have a 'free' and 'open' internet not controlled by corporations but rather by the people for example linux machines and hard drives are cheap if i did local gilbert internet for free Action: joebullhead is away: joebullhead AFK i would mirror several things that i use a lot so i could grab from my ipaq i wouldnt be 'live' on the net but i woudl still have value :) i.e. i would create a stock quote, news service etc that just grabbed the facts short and sweet and updated like every 60 seconds etc etc currently i would have to pay $4.95 to get this on my phone or pager but i could get for free instead if that makes sense anyhow have to find folks close enough to try it out but with the free wireless internet of the future, someone would still have to link city to city have someone with 2 miles jcater: yes that was my point/concern i see it growing within neighborhoods fairly quickly but then to span cities great than 20 miles apart will get difficult and supply/demand dictates that if p2p providers don't make money with quantity, the prices go skyhigh they will have to do what wireless fones do and that is put stations every 50 miles or so what's the range on those things? which wont happen in the 'free' version jcater unamplified i think probably about 500 feet or so as this may solve a major problem w/me relocating to farm-land amplified on 100ft tower i think they will go about 20 miles or more my parents and grandparents live within 1 mile of the land I'm looking at they dont appear to be 'direct line of site' persay but the farther you try to beam the more important line of site is i.e. if im out side i can hit my base station in the house no line of sight but im only 40ft away this would help justify me getting a T1 or satellite connection a big tree might be enough impedement to stop a 2 mile hit guys in san francisco (orielly publishers) had 3 different 20 mile dishes setup but they were like 150ft towers hehe... no grocery store or post office.. but dammit we have wireless internet ;) rofl jcater seriously this is a good model in my opinion spend 800 a month on a T1 dneighbo: I'm dead serious put up a 100 dollar dish resell it as an 802.11b ISP for say 20 a month get 20 people within 20 miles to sign up and half your t1 is paid for :) and actually at highspeed like that (11mbps) you could probably sell it at 40 a month to 20 people and the t1 is paid for yip and even 20 people sharing a t1 will be pretty smoking fast most of the time they will pull a true 11mbps both ways :) and let the nearby school's library join in, and it's now a tax write-off yip in fact it could change farming i can see the farmer on his tractor with his iPAQ checking the farmers alamanc that better be one helluva sealed iPAQ :) to get some tips on how deep to plant seed x this go around put a GPS on the tractor hooked up to home linux box and you can plot your seeding patterns jcater: That already happens.. rofl jbailey: yip hell why not hook up a RC tractor and just use GPS to DRIVE the tractor from your linux box :) dneighbo: Sometimes you just want out of the house... jbailey: but I'm *justifying* my investment :) true well looks like the local linux list is eating it up this is very interesting so i will let you know how it goes over next 6 months as this is seriously a real-world problem I have as i fully plan on trying to connect as many as possible in the east valley anyone familiar w/2-way satellite connections (just as DirecTV's new phoneline-less connection?) Take it one step further and do it all through barter... That way you don't have to pay taxes on it.. jcater um yes and no i have sprint's wireless broadband at home isn't that line-of-site service? i believe its a microwave (basically a prop 802.11b) yeah... we looked at that jcater: All of the stuff I've seen for satellite internet recommends a landline for the up connection to keep the latency down. but I stuck w/dsl as it scared me :) jcater: its almost identical to 802.11b so its pretty much line of site I'm trying to see what options I'll have as there's NO isp out there :( I can justify spending more on the connection what they did here is put it on the highest mountain and they hit about everywhere if I can share the connection w/nearby families jcater: seriously a few folks here at local lug have started DIALUP even ISPs in smaller towns