[01:09] Last message repeated 1 time(s). ajmitch (~me@p58-max1.bal.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: derek is back (gone 05:16:11) dude our news party rocked :) cool :) our worship team played headliner for the city's new year party few thousand folks they did mostly old time rock and roll but they did creed's higher and it was awesome excellent Action: ajmitch likes that song hey if i have a shared object .so that isnt being recognized but exists how do i load it LD_PRELOAD may help i mean in my ld.so.conf path it exists i've had that issue before hmm k i recall having to do a ldconfig ran ldconfig? or something before Action: ajmitch plays 'higher' with gstmediaplay i suppose i shoudl run off to slumber Action: derek is away: dnzzzz ajmitch (me@p58-max1.bal.ihug.co.nz) left irc: "http://www.freedevelopers.net" Maniac (~User@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly_ (danielb@d154.as14.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) chillywilly_ (~danielb@d171.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~rm@N808P001.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly chillywilly (danielb@d171.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: chillywilly (~danielb@d171.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: derek is back (gone 07:41:13) Action: dsmith is away: watching robot wars marathon hello CrazyFoam Action: derek is watching the rose parade wife is from arcadia (right outside pasadena) and i lived in south pasadena for a few years (where i met her) so im sorely missing the parade :( jcater (~jason@24.92.70.201) joined #gnuenterprise. hello jcater morning rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise. lambert (~lambert@laptop.lambertfam.org) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d171.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) chillywilly (~danielb@d57.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hiya ra3vat (~ds@195.239.64.88) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641690.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. psu: 'sup? hi jc I was looking at yesterday's log & your conversation with Derek I don;t see why the widiget he describes couldn't work in text (of course, this leaves aside the q of whether it's a good idea or not anyway) Action: psu is normally a fan of KISS, in widget sets as elsewhere it could and I'm torn how would it work in html? I mean, you could have buttons but to have the webpage reupdate each time would suck imho html is actaully more tricky I didn't say it was a bad idea... just applying the same litmus tests we apply to everything else either you refresh after each selection jc - agree absoluetely my main concern is what would such a device default back to? if the UI didn't support such a thing How do we feel about javascript in HTML clients? (I know java = proprietary standard, and personally, I see it as an option hence to be avoided I would like to see a basic html client would same apply to javascript that worked under lynx and everything else or do we regard that as more free-friendly? but could see an enhanced html driver that made it more "friendly" to use, but required a more modern browswer there's a free implementation of javascript iirc problem is the proliferation of possible UIs yes personally, I think all our forms should work w/a stock browser (lynx or otherwise) BUT in efect, you have HTML lite and HTML thick at my office, I'd prefer to use a JS-enabled form :) How difficult would it be to make lynx use javascript at least for things that are physically possible for it? well, that was an example of a basic client Or do I seriously not even want to go there? I didn't specifically mean lynx but a basic web browser no, but principle is there um, well the way I see it in practicality, most web "browsers" support stuff like JS BUT what about HTML widgets (such as wxWindows wxHTML) ppl could embed our forms in their apps using a stock html widget and I can promise, those wouldn't support JS I'm torn but I'm also not coding it :) btw, I have NO idea about JS+Lynx support it very well could already be done :) Just thinking out loud I use (*gasp*) IE 6 and Konqueror :) btw, also consider something as basic as a line-oriented forms client in which curses support isn't there it basically displays one question/line at a time Derek's form could be done as a Q & A script it would be hideous, but pretty much everything in line based would have to be true ok a few things there is a free implementatoin of 'java script' iirc i.e. java script != java just thinking out loud :) i think its called spidermonkey as for lynx support i dont see much value we have curses across the web if someone wants that imho If we make a JS (or free equiv) browser the min spec for HTML forms i think webclients will pretty much have to support some language or it will be painful this resolves a lot of our problems like I said earlier, lynx was being used as an example of a basic clients on validation as you will be sumbitting forms like crazy for the most trivial of things as we can build a limited amt of validation into the client this is just my opinion well, I've stated my opinion me too I foresee a basic (although limitedly useful) HTML client and a modern JS-or-such based client that can handle client-side validation but, also, like I said, I'm not coding it :) jcater - what would we lose by dropping the basic HTML client? As derek says, char based people are probably better with curses than lynx 2 things: well, like I've been saying, I was using lynx as an example of a basic client, not as an example of a text interface 2 things: jcater: true, i suppose there might exist something like galeon or konq that has js turned off to be lightweight or such 1. As much as we hate to admit it, a lot of ppl still use old browsers and a lot of ppl (like me!) disable JS support, etc 2. It's a implementation test for us... basically, keep us truthful to our abstraction :) if that makes sense yes normally I'm a big fan of multi-browser support so I fell kinda odd arguing to require JS or equiv I suppose the thing is you are going to get an easier ride with JS (poss client-side validation for a start) but the GNUe philosophy is not to rule anything out psu: yip hate to admit that that was my point :) like I said earlier, my office would use the JS-enabled version :) well, actually, my office will use the wxQT when it's available :) Action: jcater doesn't liket he thought of any HTML-based forms honestly doh Action: derek either i think we NEED to support it for the 'trendy' folks but short of that im not a fan yip I might have a *few* uses for that if we can get it to work w/my Zope portal i could prolly live with a vt100 curses version though ;) If we can solve the issues of distributing client code HTML forms can be relegated to occasional users only or extranet psu: way i see it is broswers only live to half the hype sure every pc has one but each one is different even in same family and behave so oddly writing code for them is brutal so the concept of 'thin client' no maintenance on 'client' seems odd in our environment GENERALLY it will all be intranet usage in which case putting the client binaries in shared location and the gfd's in shared location psu: what do you mean about "issues of distributing client code" means clientless maintenance anyhow I'm coming from situations where we loved 2-tier client server jcater: technically if you arent on an internet until our first upgrade ;-) say an employee wanted to use gfds from home and you didnt have a vpn setup that was a fun week - 400 clients at multiple locations some 50 miles away i.e. didnt offer forms binaries they would have to install local copy of forms psu: I understand... believe me With GNUe, if you have n-tier but i dont see gnue like a 'web site' with a preferred client of GNUe Forms in sense you probably dont want to expose everyone in the world to your gnue system :) then presumably all the apps logic is in GEAS so you don't have to upgrade GNUe Forms client as often but you will still have to occasionally? Or am I missing the plot? psu: i think jason and james both use shared binaries i.e. they put the stuff for forms client in shared location psu: no, you have the plot :) and the remote clients use it we are another piece of software that must be upgraded at points or i could be missing the boat but like derek said, we use shared binaries which solves part of the problem so you only upgrade the client in 1 place and all users are upgraded so its not like old days of going to every machine BUT you still have to upgrade every office yes which in my case is 2, so no big deal Plus, at the moment, you can network install it even the Windoze version AFAIK psu: s/at the moment,/ that is a requirement for jamest and I and me too so you should see that for a long time :) good The problem is that people have become brainwashed psu: good thing about gnue that client code is inherently bad we are equal part business folks, programmers and sys admins and the sys admin blood w/in gnue will ensure that maintenance ease is at top of list wheras client code is actually good (got an expensive PC, use its processor cycles) as long as you can resolve distro issues IMHO y ip psu: also, my situation is a little different my remote office uses LTSP -- diskless x-stations so the binaries are always shared but at our main office, with the upper management folk, they *have* to have their own Win?? machines with the latest and greatest :) so at one end of the spectrum, one of my offices is the easiest to maintain at the other end, very disparaged computing platforms :) argh! bbias Problem is that people assume that web-based is the only way to resolve client code distro problem http://www.e-envoy.gov.uk/publications/frameworks/egif2/execsum.htm brb "The main thrust of the framework is to adopt the Internet and World Wide Web standards for all government systems. " Action: psu would rather have a tightly-written effective GNUe Forms client who knows, we may have self-updating forms clients someday :) than a beastie d/l like some of the java forms clients out there bbl jcater (jason@24.92.70.201) left irc: "bbiaf" hmm client side code is very nice in the general case but some of the problems with client side code: Version Skew, some people upgraded to the new version and some didn't. Having everything nicely shared makes it fairly easy to upgrade everyone, but if they're still running the old one and haven't yet quit, then they're still running the old one. And another, possibly more important, you have clients that have direct access to the database. While you can limit them with the client to certain abilities, you can't necessarily stop them connecting with access via ODBC then doing a "DELETE FROM table" Hi Isomer I guess I'm thinking more generally about clients in n-tier rather than 2-tier Action: Isomer would be scared to give people SQL access :) yeah Action: Isomer does a lot of work with irc servers, and unfortunately IRC servers do far far too much. Action: psu would ban anyone from direct SQL access anyone but me, anyway As I understand it, with n-tier using GEAS any changes to the application you can just do on GEAS You only have to re-install the GNUe Forms client when that changes Once it becomes a stable product, not very often hopefully right PLUS you make the re-install as painless as possible Action: psu likes jcater's idea of self-updating forms clients self updating is usually a very bad idea eg: Self update to a trojaned version. or, say users are running version 4.0, and the admin hasn't upgraded everyone to 4.1 yet because it's known to have an exploit someone can force the upgrade to 4.1 then exploit everyone. Yes, but we are not talking M$ here but we only put the trojans in for the ones running on M$ platforms It's up to the sysadmin what version he runs ;) psu: Yeah, but you crack a box in the DMZ, and suddenly you've got control of all of the clients not the good look a simple way of doing upgrades is a good idea "A new version is available, would you like to upgrade?" Action: derek is away: nap but make sure it does smart things like check a signature on the file Isomer - as this is free software I expect sysadmins to be clueful ;-) and to make absolutely sure they are happy with the upgrade before releasing it signatures are an excellent idea the thing is, there are situations where the sysadmin may not be the one making that choice Action: Isomer arp steals the app servers IP, and releases a trojan as a "required upgrade" any number of things With GNUe, the sysadmin (well, actually the enterprise) should always be making the choice. rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" GNue should be inside the firewall as much as poss and I'm not ignoring the problem of malicious staff either (Ok, maybe I am) thos eppl can be dealt with muwwwaahahahha to me, integrity of the system = integrity of the network generally chillywilly: hehehe. hmm you know about windows update? who me? what about it? cw is our resident expert on updating Windows ... to Debian GNU/Linux rofl hehe well, it uses http to check a site "updates.microsoft.com" yes I ran it for my mom's buggy ass win 98 A) In the last round of CodeRed Virii, updates.microsoft.com ended up being infected. that didn't want to shutdown juts because I put a network card int it http://wlug.linuxcare.co.nz/codered.html B) You can automatically configure a windows machine to use a proxy. it looks up a hostname "wpad" and fetches the file "/wpad.dat" from it. As searches strip off the domain components one at a time, you can register "wpad.com" and provide a proxy configuration file and tell all *.com clients to use you as a proxy server for updates.microsoft.com this is a company with basically infinite resources and they're very vunerable I don't want to see us in the same situation :) that web page is funny isomer - I think we can guarantee that we will never have infinite resources ;-) m$ only cares about making money and making computing "easy" right, and theres at least one trap there that we can fall into :P Isomer - I think you are right to point out that "Urgent Security Upgrades - strongly recomm" updates on gnuenterprise site must be validated somehow digital signatures etc But with free software, users are ultimately responsible digital signatures still don't protect against the attack of forcing an upgrade to a legitimate, but known buggy, version. for their own security heh while that is true s/free/all we all know that they suck :P Isomer - I wouldn't personally support any kind of gnuenterprise as a project/product forcing users to upgrade IMHO, the concept of a "mandatory upgrade" for free s/w is an oxymoron also probably violates GPL Make it as easy as poss, yes But someone in the enterprise has to say "I accept GNUe's recomm, let's take this fix" & be aware of the consquences Once that has been done, they need the tools to distribute that fix as easily/quickly within their enterprise and poss extranet as well lambert (~lambert@laptop.lambertfam.org) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). as possible All IMHO opinions are like assholes, everyone has one :P except that assholes have at least one practical use ;-) Action: Isomer should have another go at installing gnue Action: chillywilly waits as debian updates installing packages is a very resource intensive thing Action: Isomer decides to update all the machines in the flat Action: Isomer needs an "onall" command ;) deadlocks suck ass agreed I have no idea why I have a deadlock in this code hrm wait until it deadlocks then hit Ctrl-\ and see where it is? that will work with a multi-threaded program? depends, does your OS drop multithreaded cores? yes core.pid(tid) this is GNU/Linux dude then main thread is suspended though I used gdb to run it and I can do a back trace on each thread it doesn't make any sense though why would a thread be hung up on a pthread_mutex_unlock? (gdb) thread 4 [Switching to thread 4 (Thread 2051 (LWP 9667))]#0 0x402d7f64 in pthread_mutex_unlock () from /lib/libpthread.so.0 (gdb) back #0 0x402d7f64 in pthread_mutex_unlock () from /lib/libpthread.so.0 #1 0x4022c6d6 in ost::Mutex::LeaveMutex (this=0x4003b0a4) at mutex.cpp:198 #2 0x4002b2ef in Simulation::Instance () at simulation.cpp:55 #3 0x4002c6e1 in TimedSimRunner::RunSimulation (this=0x8051778) at timedsimrunner.cpp:54 #4 0x4002b43a in Simulation::Run (this=0x8051598) at simulation.cpp:65 #5 0x4022b7d4 in execHandler (th=0x8051598) at thread.cpp:447 #6 0x402d6eca in pthread_start_thread () from /lib/libpthread.so.0 #7 0x402d6f11 in pthread_start_thread_event () from /lib/libpthread.so.0 you're unlocking a mutex that wasn't locked? Action: Isomer isn't much of a pthread guru sorry :( hmmmm I think I am suspending this thread here somehow and I don't want to do that...I think I have something wrong here jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. g'mornin' jcater morning Action: Isomer finally figures out how to have far more tabs in Xchat ? I can list them down the left, which gives me almost twice as much room :) how? ah bah, my screen is wider than it is tall so is mine, but labels are quite wide oh yea that would dave some room how do you chage it to put the tabs on the left? Settings > Window layout > Tabs on the: Left psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. Action: Isomer has closed most of my unused windows that is funky and I'm down to 25 on 4 networks I need to change my key bindings for thr tabs now so it is more intuitive hmm M-right and M-left should be M-Up and M-Down ;) I have alt-+/alt-- and alt-1 -> alt-9, alt-0, alt-shift-1 -> alt-shift-9 ..... except alt-shift-1 doesn't appear to work in xchat, worked in epic tho :/ the numbers work here ra3vat (ds@195.239.64.88) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Remosi (dahoose@210-86-57-206.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. hrm ISP farted heh brb chillywilly (danielb@d57.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: chillywilly (~danielb@d57.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d57.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Client Quit chillywilly (~danielb@d57.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Isomer (dahoose@210-86-58-39.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:00:09) ajmitch (~me@p9-max1.bal.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt (~neilt@dhcp64-134-54-175.chan.dca.wayport.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "bbiaf" hey neilt chillywilly (danielb@d57.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: "restarting X" reinhard (rm@N808P001.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody" rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt (~neilt@dhcp64-134-54-175.chan.dca.wayport.net) left #gnuenterprise. psu (peter@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hi hi aj just a quick check in as much to try out xIRC as anything chillywilly (~danielb@d57.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. heh k Action: psu is away: toast psu? Action: psu is back hi cw cw > toast Action: chillywilly has his nice wireless mouse back mv psu /dev/null ERROR: cannot move or copy device onto itself is I believe the trad response I see you are already in bit heaven? must be using debian GNU/Linux now ;) exactly ;-) Action: chillywilly cvs updates and compiles galeon anyway, definantely toast time now psu (peter@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: "[x]chat" jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jc sup g the one and only thanks god why does apt-get upgrade hold some packages back? caus ethey are foobarred ah they have unmet dependencies is that the technical term ayup oh, gotcha in security, you need to offset the risk with the cost. in mathematical terms, security tends to zero as the sum of the number of idiots increases to infinity. apt-get dist-upgrade is recommended for testing or unstable, i think ah did not know that Action: jcater is still an apt-get newbie Action: chillywilly just lets aptitude do its thing Action: ajmitch too hmm what's the difference? Action: ajmitch is a newbie, /me means :) see the manpage :) aptitude is a front end tp apt to apt bah it is curses it's purty too you could always go with gnome-apt jcater? s/?// ;) why? apt-get isn't exactly complicated it was a joke we know how much you lpve our beloved gnome love bah kde ppl don't tend to like debian for some reason wonder wehy that is ;P kde developers that is I dunno never heard that myself I know it from experience and hanging out in #kde too much (soemthing I wouldn't recommend) bah, galeon is crashing when I close a tab heh chillywilly: I'm not having that problem - I updated my galeon today, which also pulled in mozilla 0.9.7 jbailey: not using the deb though I just compiled from cvs maybe I should dl the deb fil_c (~username@host213-122-192-57.btinternet.com) joined #gnuenterprise. galeon and mozilla are now sufficiently good for me that I'm not tracking CVS anymore. umm, I always compile galeon ad I like it that much ;P s/ad/as but may instal the deb since it is b0rked anyone know if the stock debian 2.4.x kernels support root reiserfs? I hope that doesn't hose my bookmarks they just switched to xbel format or something jcater: I think I saw it mentioned in 2.4.17 real men compile their own or so, anyway. I switched to a root ext3 at 2.4.16. ;P lazy men don't =) Action: chillywilly has all xfs file systems, except fpr /boot i have all ext3 (apart from one reiserfs) ajmitch: what's the status of ext3? you have issues? I haven't had any at all. no issues here this is a production server 90 miles away so I don't want to get *too* experimental :) heh but would prefer to use ext3 as that's probably the future standard i don't think ext3 is experimental, it's bene in production use in servers for a couple of years now I chose ext3 because I didn't have to reformat. right that was my main reason too :) Otherwise I probably would've chosen reiser. do the stock kernels support that? jcater: Yup! I've used reiserfs in production for 6 months well, 8 months now :) xfs is the best imho I havent' looked at them extensively. All I know is that reiser seemed to support a number of features that make sense, and ext3 is trivial to implement (4 commands and a reboot) with stock kernels. Action: jcater isn't looking for the technical best... I'm looking for the stablest :) ok this sold me Almost all of my servers are between 10 hours and 80 hours drive from here, so... "ext3 has been in production use on some widely-accessed servers, including the rpmfind.net servers, for more than two years." Action: chillywilly has had 0 prblems and likes that he can keep the kernel in cvs ok, gotta go, cy'all later :) LATER I could do that locally on my own system too I suppose oops, darn caps lock BYE JCATER cya ajmitch (me@p9-max1.bal.ihug.co.nz) left irc: "http://www.freedevelopers.net" haha smart ass hehe goole.com looks cool google.com jcater: you are bacl to hackgin again I see hacking nah that was this past weekend's stuff haven't been going to work, so no need to update cvs until today :) ok rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" rdean (~rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise. fil_c (username@host213-122-192-57.btinternet.com) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) missed 90% of conversation but chillywilly there are debs for galeon well duh :P that work with latest debian er mozilla but that's no fun Action: chillywilly broke down and installed the deb anyway if you have tgeh bandwidth this is funniest thing i have ever seen http://stuff.aripollak.com/romjul.swf Action: chillywilly checks it out basically its animated irc version of romeo and juliet heh complete w/ bad spelling makes my browser hang I know I have the Free flahs plugin flash im in friggin tears chillywilly: i hate flash but this is so funny it makes me like flash oh im gonna hurt myself i cant stop laughing bah, I can't get it to load no fun Action: chillywilly just beat all 27 teams in NBA Jam jcater: you have to check out this flash fil_c (~username@host213-1-164-50.btinternet.com) joined #gnuenterprise. a quote 'im gonna mak someone my biotch' there we go 'wtf cant anyone spel my name rite' rofl on bottom of scene in act 3 card is little minature 'i love boobies' it's loading now gaw it's 5MB this will take forever Action: chillywilly needs to get DSL baaaad this is going to take 20 min for me to download heheh, it is starting kewl tales for the l33t rofl that was just too darn funny hehehlol Action: chillywilly is going to piss on himself damn it stopped sI the koolaid guy is funny as hell s/sI// the poor spelling the little oddities and stick figures just had me rolling can't anyone sple my name rite? roxor it's buffering back up again Action: chillywilly waits modems suxorz :P bah I have no flash player man that is funny you can get the transcript hehe thanks to: pepsi nelson lol Action: chillywilly thanks pepsi jcater: i would go as far as saying its worth rebooting in windows (if you dont have flash) to see this one hang on.. lemme write down address bbiaf jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "rebooting into win98 to see derek's swf stuff :)" heh Action: chillywilly gets a trout out for jc for when he gets back ;) madlocke (~madlocke@pD9E0ABBB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. madlocke (madlocke@pD9E0ABBB.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Client Quit jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@Toronto-HSE-ppp3641690.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" rofl I need to go home and change my pants now hehe dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Remote closed the connection phil_c (~username@host213-122-190-120.btinternet.com) joined #gnuenterprise. phil_c (username@host213-122-190-120.btinternet.com) left irc: Client Quit fil_c (username@host213-1-164-50.btinternet.com) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: so you like the flash animation? hell, yeah sigh there's one oddity of konqueror that kills me if you do a Ctrl+End it takes you to the end of the page now, what would you expect Ctrl+Home to do? it brings up a listing of your home dir rofl galeon is goofy like that too ctrl=end goes to end ctrl-home takes you to your home page iirc as it bites me ALL the time I'll have to learn to do ctrl-alt+[end|home] as that behaves as I'd expect the former to do but that's not like IE i would look, i bet its configurable well in gnome stuff things like that are configurable (usually) I'm sure it's configurable in KDE too I just hate not having default behavior at work (it's one of those, taking my own medicine thingies) yip C has got to be the most atrocious hideous beast i have ever seen especially when teamed with GTK looking at logjam to hack in a feature and its just HIDEOUS being spoiled by Delphi, writing code to 'draw windows' seems archaic enough (gtk) but then add to it doing so in C and its just gross :) wx makes you do the archaic window drawing etc, but at least with python the blow is soften by an elegant language ;) yes these are flame words i understand lol I saw the coolest article on python programmers today lemme find it http://home.jam.rr.com/mspiggie/hostilehackers.html rofl... " "C++ programmers sometimes seem to think the rest of us are blithering idiots and are only allowed to live so that there are end users to sqeeze Porche payments out of." funny - I got met with "Why code in Python?" just a couple days ago were you hostile towards them? ;) no - I'm one of those C++ coders ;-) rofl derek: review docs yet? nope, been watching football (oregon won!) and my livejournal fetish has me dicking with logjam code it will take you like 2 minutes to read both of them ;-) what are you doing with livejournal? jcater: using it as my diary but im finding it most enthralling ah, cool its what slashdot should be :) by joining a few groups already have been sucked in one thing it does is if someone responds to you it emails you and lets you fill out a form in the email to respond back so its almost a cross breed between slashdot weblog and irc without trolls interesting basically its a time eater i had originally planned on using it soley for a journal as the client was nice (not html) and i could get it to work from work :) but then had revelation it had an interesting concept for 'workflow' then ditched that and thought it would make an interesting model for business 2 business communication then said forget it, its just fun plus it led me to great films like l33t films presents : romeo and juliet jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly_ (~danielb@d148.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d57.as29.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) derek: Are you talking about http://www.livejournal.com/ ? Action: dsmith is back (gone 10:22:03) yes derek: Are you using their software on your box or are you just using their site? logjam a gtk client on my machine i HATE web interfaces for some time i was using a nifty hack that used emacs and bash then would use rsync to upload to my site my journal then i found livejournal and figured i would try it instead and i got intoxicated by the community :) But the journal lives on their box, not yours, right? Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. re jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith: yes that is a drawback, BUT if i wasnt lazy the code is GPL for the server i could setup my own journal server im willing to take the risk i suppose as doing the rsync's was annoying to a degree and i like the community aspect of live journal Yurik_ (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) Nick change: Yurik_ -> Yurik hehe you notice that livejournal.com has a nice goat on it? chillywilly_ hi Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly hi Yurik the goat's name is frank This is Frank. Frank is the LiveJournal.com mascot. He helps us with random programming when we get behind, and occasionally he answers tech support requests. Frank's really quite versatile.... he even does the yardwork sometimes. When the lawn gets overgrown we go, "Hey Frank! It's lunch time.... go eat the lawn!". It's really a win-win situation. haha he's not a GNUe goat then are goats like to get their freak on our and they are relentless "mad" even i need to run for a bit, jurassic park III awaits lol Action: derek is away: movie going ArthurDent (~cfroder@209.6.17.161) joined #gnuenterprise. what is gnu enterprise? gnu enterprise is a project to create tools an environment for enterprise-level software development and deployment http://www.gnuenterprise.org/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=24 I'm smart rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-052-243.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" yes you are thank you you are too most of the time :) hehe I admire ho w you whipped out that url though most of the time? geeze plz don't try to hard to give me a complement, it may go to my head ;) thanks for the link dres (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. ArthurDent (~cfroder@209.6.17.161) left #gnuenterprise. silly linux sillymilly ? you making fun of me? that's sounds awful close to chillywilly sillywilly is what i was trying to type I wasn't making un of you, I was cgalling yousily in a friendly way well I a, not getting upset anyway....reminds me of this one guy who pops into #freedevelopers all the time plus my nick is meant to be silly anyway he likes to do word plays on my nick hillbilly etc. sillyhillbillychillywilly? too bad I am not from the south unlike some ppl ;) Nick change: jcater -> sillyhillbilly :D Nick change: sillyhillbilly -> jcater :) hillbilly makes me think of goats heheh chillywilly_ (~danielb@d148.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) chillywilly_ (danielb@d148.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: "BitchX: melts in your mouth, not in your hands" chillywilly (danielb@d148.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: "sleep" Action: derek is back (gone 01:42:06) that was a pretty lame flick Maniac (User@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" you expected non-lame? no, but i believe in miracles ;) cue angel corus im running off to bed work tomorrow, yuck Action: derek is away: dnzzzz --- Wed Jan 2 2002