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<clutchgeek> hi all
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<jamest> jbailey: you here?
<jbailey> Sort'of.
<jamest> you know any reason that cvs commits would not show only my commits
<jamest> seems other peoples commits go thru fine
<jamest> my commits take but no mail generated
<jbailey> Is this a recent problem?
<jamest> yip
<jamest> i first noticed it right before christmas
<jamest> i was merging braches and then switched back to head
<jamest> after that no commit msgs from any machines I work from
<jamest> jcater switched back to head and still gets commit msgs
<jbailey> What's your savannah account name?
<jamest> jamest
<jamest> you still work on savannah much?
<jbailey> Not at all. =)  But I'm on the major sysadmin lists, so sometimes I can still answer questions about "what changed"
<jbailey> I'll look at this over the course of the next couple of hours.
<jamest> jbailey: I'm going to dump my cvs tree at work and re-co it first
<jamest> much faster here than on my home modem
<jbailey> It's worth a try, but it shouldn't matter..  The emails are generated on the server by the commits...
<jamest> ok
<jamest> just made a small change to the new tree
<jamest> and commited
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<jamest> morning
[09:03] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<jcater> got commit emails from you this am
<jamest> what?
<jamest> jbailey: did you change anything?
<jamest> or did a fresh co of the tree work
<jcater> Log message:
<jcater> 	Removed <database> tags from forms not relying on a valid connections.conf
<jcater> 	file.  This is only being done to verify that commit mails from me are working.
<jamest> wow
<jbailey> Nope, that's not me.
<jamest> then a fresh co worked
<jamest> sigh,
<jamest> looks like my modem will be busy tonight
<jbailey> Is your machine at home up to date?
<jamest> yes
<jbailey> 'cause it would probably be very nice to help troubleshoot this - I think perhaps check to see the differences between the CVS directories on the two machines.
<jamest> you want me to keep old and new trees
<jamest> ok
<jbailey> If you could please, and basically do a diff between them.
<jamest> is there a dir based diff?
<jbailey> jamest: diff -r
<jamest> ooooo
<jamest> hmmmm
<jamest> my cvsroot is wrong
<jamest> in the old copy
<jamest> :ext:jamest@subversions.gnu.org:/cvsroot
<jamest> vs
<jamest> :ext:jamest@subversions.gnu.org:/cvsroot/gnu
<jamest> er
<jamest> :ext:jamest@subversions.gnu.org:/cvsroot/gnue
<jbailey> A quick shell script should fix that.
<jamest> yeah
<jbailey> Keep in mind that the repository file will need to be sed'd to get it right, though.
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<jbailey> jamest: Do you mind reporting that to savannah-hackers, btw?  They should probably find a way to make that other checkout stop working.
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<dneighbo> looking for something else i found this
<dneighbo> http://www.geocities.com/core_dump_000/irc/xtrout.html
<jbailey> This isn't like those people who say "Great site for games!  http://goatse.cx/" is it?
<jamest> :)
<jbailey> (I wonder if that'll make the kernel cousin...  <grin>) =)
<dneighbo> is nickr here?
<dneighbo> is there a way after doing apt-get update
<dneighbo> to get a list of packages that are updated?
<dneighbo> i.e. i always get nervous just doing a blanket 'apt-get upgrade'
<jbailey> apt-get -s upgrade
<jbailey> dneighbo: did that work for you?
<jamest> apt-get -u upgrade
<jamest> will also display list and ask for confirmation
<jbailey> I run unstable, so I almost never actually want all of the upgrades. =)
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<dneighbo> jbailey i recently started using unstable
<dneighbo> and twice it has 'hurt' me
<dneighbo> nothing couldnt undo
<dneighbo> but figured it was worth starting to 'look'
<dneighbo> coolness
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<dneighbo> anyone here use a windowmanager other than gnome/kde?
<dneighbo> specifically im looking for somethign 'faster'
<dneighbo> i heard kde was fast, but in my testing its similar in load/speed to gnome
<dneighbo> i.e. slightly faster but not very noticeable
<dneighbo> i was thinking of icewm or windowmaker or something
<jcater> icewm is supposed to be fairly fast
<jcater> I also used sawfish w/o gnome before
<jcater> as it's fairly lightweight IIRC
<jcater> there's always twm
<jcater> ;)
<jamest> windowmaker used to be fast
<jamest> haven't used it in ages
<jamest> twm is fast too
<jamest> and I still have prof's that prefer it over newer ones
<jamest> man, anyone on the ximian lists?
<jamest> i have not followed it closely
<jamest> but
<jamest> some dude has been laying into them the last few days
<jamest> guess he paid the 29.95 for it
<jamest> and needed support 
<jamest> and went w/o it for 4 days
<jamest> biz days
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> sorry you know my opinion here
<dneighbo> you would think with like 60 employyes (or more)
<dneighbo> in probably 10 time zones
<dneighbo> someone could give the man some support 
<dneighbo> i think our track record w/ volunteers is probably better
<dneighbo> you have a link to the mail list thread?
<dneighbo> i only belong to 'evolution' list
<jamest> no
<jamest> it could be several people griping
<jamest> i don't know as I delete them w/o reading most the time
Action: jcater is away: stuff
<joebullhead> Back to the WM thread, blackbox is fast and simple, fvwm fast, xfwm/xfce is also much faster than kde
<dneighbo> joebullhead i think blackbox is one i was wanting to try
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<chillywilly> anyone home?
<chillywilly> http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/01/04/university_open_source/index1.html?x
<chillywilly> this is an interesting link...
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<jamest> lol
<jamest> chillywilly: in some administrative circles at universities things like the math department are not called departments
<jamest> they are called "cost centers"
<jamest> that is the case here
<jamest> and it goes a long way to show how administration feels about the education in general
<jamest> I've wondered if they think they'd still get tution from students if they closed down all their "cost centers" and only left whatever the hell they consider a "profit center" open
<jamest> anyway
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> I don't see the probelm, Berkeley is just showing us the typical Open Source attitude
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> I don't think you'll ever see a lot of "free" software coming from uni's
<jcater> I'd imagine it'll always be more BSDish
<jcater> or royalty-based closed source
<chillywilly> but this definitely should be the way it is....especially public institutions and gov't should be making and using software that is "fpr the ppl"
<chillywilly> BSDish is fine, but they are talking ere just proprietary and lumping it into their "Intellectual Property"
<jcater> I know
<chillywilly> hey you can't think that thought
<chillywilly> I own it
<chillywilly> damnit
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> hell, "the way it should be"....
<chillywilly> IP is sucha  stupid term
<jcater> university should be an extention of K-12
<jcater> i.e., anyone who wants to go can go
<dneighbo> jcater: i wouldnt be k12 trying to claim works of its students soon
<chillywilly> heh, yea
<dneighbo> as kids programming useful things are getting younger and younger
<chillywilly> my uni wasn't too gustoppoish
<chillywilly> they let me release my senior design project under the GPL
<dneighbo> well i love this concept on two levels
<jcater> what concept?
<dneighbo> a. the tax payers subsidise public schools so how fitting the university make money off my money
<dneighbo> b. the student pays the rest of the cost my tax dollars dont (via tuition) how fitting that the school help SHARE their royalities
<dneighbo> i have a brilliant idea.....
<dneighbo> we should make it so that if you come up with an idea or thought and expand on it ANYWHERE you dont 'own'
<dneighbo> that the 'owner' of that spot has claim to your royalities
<dneighbo> example, i was in the library reading about database design one afternoon
<dneighbo> and it sparked how to handle a problem in contact manager for gnue i was complentating
<dneighbo> i think that makes the library entitled to GNUe
<dneighbo> right/
<dneighbo> ?
<dneighbo> i mean i did take some notes there, i thought of it there and heck i used thier books to help further my idea
<chillywilly> I think ppl just need to realize that it's not all about da benjamins
<jcater> dneighbo: don't talk about this in a logged channel
<jcater> 'cause you are on to something
<dneighbo> jcater: it was actually a anetedote, but im serious about that its coming to that
<jcater> I imagine that argument would hold water in today's society
<jcater> chillywilly: btw, excellent article
<dneighbo> the moral of the story
<dneighbo> dont create a business that makes money
<dneighbo> create one that attracts and encourages smart people to hang out at, and discuss ideas and live off their success
<dneighbo> btw: in many ways most software houses are little more than that
<dneighbo> in fact most of them even call their facilities 'campuses'
<dneighbo> goal: entice bright young minds to work for you for minimal money bastardizing their concepts for profit
<chillywilly> jcater: I can't take credit for it ;)....but it is definitely and issue that irks me
<dneighbo> only universities are really the kings
<dneighbo> a. they get you and i to pay as well as the employee and still want a piece of the action
<dneighbo> b. they have figured out how to do this with physical property as well as mental property (re: college athletics)
Action: dneighbo assumes KSU got a pretty penny for coming to the insight.com bowl here last week, of which little will go back to the 'students academic areas'
<dneighbo> btw: jamest KSU football is considered a profit center ;)
<dneighbo> so dont expect it cut anytime soon 
<dneighbo> <end rant>
<jamest> lol
<jamest> actually you're right
<jamest> it's sad but today people think good football team = good university
<dneighbo> btw: a school with successful football and basketball w/ boosters doesnt really need tuition ;)
<jamest> so our administration really pumped up the f-ball team
<dneighbo> i.e. a math department is obsolete
<jamest> so we have a really good one
<jamest> and it helps enrollment
<dneighbo> well good football == lots o jocks
<dneighbo> lots o jocks == lots o cute girls
<chillywilly> the lesson here is that both the gov't and its public institutions will always find a way to screw us
<dneighbo> lots o cute girls == lots of horny nerds
<chillywilly> it's just the capitalistic disease my friends
<dneighbo> (or horny sys admins) you can pick ;)
<jcater> rofl.. my high school counseling dept had an appropriate comic strip.. it was of a senior saying "I can't decide between a Big 4 or Ivy League School"
<dneighbo> sad thing is sports bond people
<dneighbo> and it used to be in an ivy league you make so many contacts that its more important than the 'education'
<dneighbo> but now with people getting big out of non ivy league schools
<dneighbo> having 'frat buddies' and 'good ole boy' network
<dneighbo> is tremendous for success later in life
<dneighbo> i.e. at the bcs game last night
<dneighbo> something like 45,000 nebraska fans piled into rose bowl
<dneighbo> a small example....
<dneighbo> you go to say miami as an mba
<dneighbo> and a few football guys are in your pyschology 101 class
<dneighbo> you hang with them and get buddies with them help them with their homework to pass classes etc
<dneighbo> 2 years later they are in the pros
<dneighbo> making 4 million a year
<dneighbo> you want to start a business
<dneighbo> so you go to them and ask for them to 'invest'
<chillywilly> hehe
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> or to share women?
<dneighbo> i.e. a lot of these guys end up making serious bank and dont really know what to do with it
<chillywilly> they can buy plenty o' skrimps wit dem benjamins
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> anyhow no system will be perfect
<dneighbo> btw: i read livejournal now a bit
<chillywilly> yea, but it sure could be a lot better
<dneighbo> one kid on there published his supension notice
<dneighbo> the school district suspended him for 10 days
<dneighbo> and was requesting district remove ALL his computer access
<dneighbo> because he downloaded gnapster and icq
<chillywilly> like maybe not undermining the original intents of the constitutions
<dneighbo> and had two deleted porn files in his user dir
<chillywilly> er, constitution
<dneighbo> er and ws-ftp
<dneighbo> btw: the reason for all this
<dneighbo> is they found wsftp installed
<dneighbo> made by ipswitch
<dneighbo> so the network 'investigator' stated wsftp was put on the machine
Action: chillywilly has used it before
<dneighbo> as a trojan back door to switch (route) IP traffic
<dneighbo> and circumvent firewalls and such
<chillywilly> omg
<dneighbo> and ICQ is a tool to 'remotely control schools servers'
<dneighbo> now talk about friggin clueless
<chillywilly> b3w4r3
<dneighbo> and then they said illegally trading music via gnapster
<chillywilly> 1 h4v3 1CQ
<dneighbo> the kid did excellent job for a 15 year old in responding
<chillywilly> y0u w1ll b3 h4x0rd
<dneighbo> basically saying that icq and wsftp are xyz and not what the district is claiming
<dneighbo> and showed technical specs from both companies
<dneighbo> as to gnapster he said prove to me ONE single file on my machine that was copyright violation
<dneighbo> i.e. i had mp3's but all were LEGAL
<dneighbo> and as to the two porn files
<dneighbo> he stated those were DELETED BEFORE YOU INVESTIGATED
<dneighbo> he said someone transmitted them as mp3
<dneighbo> er as something other than porn
<dneighbo> i.e. he didnt know they were porno in nature until after playing
<dneighbo> at which he deleted it
<chillywilly> he probably put them on disk first ;)
<chillywilly> btw, I got to that article form linuxtoday....if anyone cares to know
<chillywilly> from
<chillywilly> not many talkbacks yet
<chillywilly> hehe, they mention lessig's book
<chillywilly> cool ;)
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<jamest> kewl
<jamest> but I wonder
<jamest> isn't ISS or MS Exchange a better tool to 'remotely control schools servers' than ICQ could ever be :)
<chillywilly> hehe
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<chillywilly> damn skippy
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<Mr_You> hi
<dneighbo> jamest yeah but they installed the exchange server :)
<dneighbo> btw: had meeting w/ budget manager today and in his office quietly playing was
<dneighbo> nickelback
<dneighbo> just went up to drop some numbers off to him (he wasnt there) but tool was playing 
<jamest> you always said you would die for me
Action: dneighbo is seriously wondering if someone played w/ his radio station or if he is having mid life crisis
<jamest> when then are you so suprised to hear your eulogy
<dneighbo> normally he has classical music cd's playing
<jamest> are you saying that people that listen to tool are in a crisis situation?
<dneighbo> rofl
<Mr_You> haha.. the best thing about when it snows is watching all the people with rear wheel drive cars make attempts... the news guys get some good shots of people spinning
Action: jamest glances at the only 2 cds in his office
<dneighbo> i woudl say someone that listens to classical as well as tool is seriously weird
<dneighbo> BUT
<dneighbo> i fit that bill
<dneighbo> but i am seriously werid so its all relevant i suppose :)
<Mr_You> I think we're all weird
<jamest> um
<jamest> i have tool and a perfect circle cd on my pc
<dneighbo> most cd's are a perfect circle jamest ;)
<jamest> and wqxr is the only station in my realplayer radio list
<Mr_You> the new 311 is pretty cool..
<dneighbo> jamest: you like linkin park?
<jamest> yip
<Mr_You> jamest: just give it some time ;-)
<dneighbo> staind?
<dneighbo> etc etc ad nausem
<dneighbo> two i have been doing serious rotation on in the car (only have 6 cd changer and an 2 hour a day commute)
<dneighbo> P.O.D and Project 86
<dneighbo> picked up a Pillar CD and its pretty good but different
<Mr_You> 2 hours a day?!?
<Mr_You> oh hour one way I guess
<dneighbo> 2/3 of the songs kick butt and the other 1/3 sound like a different band entirely :)
<dneighbo> Mr_You yip 25 miles one way
<dneighbo> during holiday i was making trip in about 30 minutes one way
<Mr_You> 25 miles takes an hour?
<jamest> staind and pod yip
<Mr_You> oh congestion
<dneighbo> now traffic has returned and im regulated to long ass commutes
<Mr_You> bummer
<jamest> must leave you now
<jamest> have to get kids
<dneighbo> cool
<jamest> won't be on much
<dneighbo> not cool
<dneighbo> :)
<jamest> however I mad goat raped the db drivers
<dneighbo> btw: did you get son Xbox or playstation 2?
<jamest> so jcater would have something to fix^H^H^Hdo over the weekend
<jamest> i got xbox
<jamest> son got gamecube
<dneighbo> dick
<dneighbo> double dick
<jamest> sucks to be me
<jamest> l8r
Action: dneighbo doesnt like jamest any more
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<chillywilly> feh
<chillywilly> admits to having an xbix and using realplayer
<chillywilly> er, xbox
<chillywilly> he will have hell to pay when he returns ;)
<jcater> yeah, i agree
<jcater> ... leaving me with broken code
<jcater> later all
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<Mr_You> man this small town has +7% unemployment.. its about an hour and a half from here I guess
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<dneighbo> bbl
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<Mr_You> supposedly 60% of the worlds fiber cable is made there.. also had textile and furniture losses
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<jamest> derek: you here?
<Mr_You> yer in trouble...mmmm..
<jamest> ?
<Mr_You> ;-)
<jamest> what did I do?
<Mr_You> chilly and I pickin: <chillywilly> admits to having an xbix and using realplayer
<Mr_You> <chillywilly> er, xbox
<Mr_You> <chillywilly> he will have hell to pay when he returns ;)
<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> an xbox is fine
<Isomer> so long as he doesn't own any games :)
<jamest> ooops
<jamest> too late
<jamest> i also have replaced all the keyboards I use the MS Naturals
<jamest> s/the/with
<jamest> I'm Billy G's bithc
<jamest> bitch
<Mr_You> heh
<jamest> I guess I'm lucky in that I don't respect anyone's opinion in here
<jamest> or I'd feel bad about myself
<jamest> j/k :)
<Mr_You> hehe.. facts of life
<Mr_You> wonder what might be kosher
<Mr_You> Sony PS2 with Linux? ;-)
<jamest> yip
<Mr_You> I read RedFlag Linux beat out Windows in sales or somethin
<jamest> nothing propietary in a sony box
<Mr_You> in China
<Mr_You> guess we can't use all those backdoors in Windows OSs 
<jamest> RedFlag Linux: 5 sales - the rest are copies
<Mr_You> joke
<Mr_You> heh
<jamest> MS Windows: 3 copies 
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<jamest> neilt: geas owned me
<neilt> ?
<jamest> i can't use a !@#!@# CORBA.FALSE w/o segfaulting my client
<Mr_You> these software COPs are giving everyone a limited month to fess up and buy software that businesses are using which are pirated
<jamest> anywhere
<neilt> sounds good
<neilt> must use geas/CORBA or it segfaults
<neilt> that should spur some development
<jamest> i can't use geas
<jamest> as it requires CORBA.FALSE
<jamest> a reinstall last nite didn't help
<chillywilly> M$ ownx jo jamest
<chillywilly> ownz
<neilt> wouldn't that be CORBA.TRUE
Nick change: Zdean -> mdean
<jamest> CORBA.TRUE doesn't work either
<jamest> foo = CORBA.FALSE
<jamest> anywhere in my code segfaults
<neilt> j/k
<chillywilly> only little bitches would use an xbox
<mdean> jamest: you know how tricky it is to program with booleans ;-)
<chillywilly> boolean schmoolean
<jamest> i bet if it was on my xbox it'd work great
<chillywilly> we need to switch to brainfuck
<mdean> instead of segfault, you'd get GSOD
<chillywilly> haha
<jamest> that was IIRC a fraud
<jamest> you get the GSOD is you put in a DVD and you don't have DVD kit
<jamest> mine has been rock stable
<jamest> and it got the crap played out of it
<mdean> I refuse to buy a console - get enough enjoyment out of my pc
<chillywilly> I can't believe you sit here and defend the monopolist
<chillywilly> wassa matta wit you eh?
<jamest> I dont defend their OS
<jamest> but their console isn't bad
<jamest> if something sucks i'll say it sucks
<jamest> but I won't say something sucks when it doesn't
<jamest> their keyboards rock
<jamest> their mice suck
<jamest> windows sucks
<mdean> their natural keyboard totally sucks
<mdean> it redefines how you type 
<chillywilly> jamest: it's  matter of principle
<mdean> with the number keys
<chillywilly> a matter
<jamest> windows XP what little I've seen of it isn't bad
<jamest> mdean: ?
<jamest> the 6/7 thing
<jamest> ?
<chillywilly> yes and that passport and product activation is just da bomb
<jamest> passport sucks
<mdean> jamest: more like 4/5/6 or 5/6/7 for one index finger
<mdean> don't remember which, but I was really annoyed
<chillywilly> oh and its' so convient for me to store my data on M$ servers so I can be anywhere and still access my data...damn I love you M$!
<mdean> XP is starting to look more and more like KDE too
<Mr_You> XP is up to par and does feel like KDE
<chillywilly> onyl took then what?
<chillywilly> 10+ years to design a stable OS
<mdean> if you count the GUI, 15+ years ;-)
<chillywilly> haha
<chillywilly> but hey man, money is th ekey to innovation
<Mr_You> yeah.. thanks to BSD code its gotten better
<chillywilly> if you thrown enough money at it....
<mdean> I have the Windows/386 box - it's a "Graphical Environment"
<chillywilly> uh
<chillywilly> you can take 15+ years to develop a stable OS too
<Mr_You> I don't even want to talk abot M$ past.. its hell
<mdean> DOS by itself wasn't unstable - but it totally sucked
<chillywilly> winblows eXtra Proprietary can lick mt nuts
<jamest> mount nuts?
<mdean> mt nuts?  whereabouts is that located?
<mdean> jamest: hehe
<jamest> is that near seatle?
<chillywilly> umm, yo mama knows where it is
<jamest> yeah, probably
<jamest> did derek go home?
<Mr_You> he said "bbl"
<jamest> i told on him
<jamest> he called me a dick
<Mr_You> uh oh
<jamest> and my wife said I'm not a dick for the reasons he listed
<jamest> then she gave me a new list of reasons why I'm still one
<Mr_You> fight in the school yard
<chillywilly> jamest: you're just "misguided"
<jamest> neilt: you have forms running?
<chillywilly> if only it would run
<chillywilly> orbit-python bitch slaps it down
<jamest> chillywilly: you have forms up?
<chillywilly> no, I am just talking shit as usua
<jamest> i want someone else to confirm the segfault
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> I can do that I think
<neilt> nope
<neilt> still waiting for wxPython
<neilt> to work
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> still no wxmac
<jamest> :(
<neilt> wxmac works fine
<neilt> wxPython wont work
<neilt> on mac
<chillywilly> hey neilt I got a little old mac classic that I need to install gnu/linux on ;)
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<chillywilly> it's sorta cute
<neilt> chillywilly:  cool
<chillywilly> hehe, my laptop screen is bigger than the monitor
<chillywilly> screen
<neilt> you must masachestic
<jamest> carefull
<neilt> though
<jamest> apple has a closed system that relies on proprietary hardware
<chillywilly> be a masochist?
<chillywilly> jamest: so that's hardware
<jamest> so's my xbox
<neilt> yes that too
Action: jamest dives for cover
<chillywilly> jamest: that's wasn't my point though....why on earth would you want to support M$
<neilt> chillywilly:  why not buy a cool toy
<neilt> that is real freedom
<neilt> the freedom to buy anything i want
<chillywilly> especially since they are literally trying to become big brother and expand into other markets
<chillywilly> one nation under M$, indivisible....
<chillywilly> with liberty and justice for none
<neilt> chillywilly:  you need to believe in good old capitalism
<chillywilly> uh, I do
<neilt> then you believe in M$
<chillywilly> and monopolies are bad
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> they are criminals
<chillywilly> convicted monopolists
<neilt> they are an excellent example of capitalism
<neilt> a few mis-steps 
<chillywilly> nigga plz
<jamest> i'd love to chat
<jamest> but I must go get my kids
<jamest> l8r
<chillywilly> hehe right
<neilt> but if not for a bunch of crap CIO's that dont know there *&*&^ from a hole in the ground
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<neilt> M$ would be nothing
<neilt> there success is not because of m$
<Mr_You> no more M$ talk
<neilt> but because of stupid buyers
<chillywilly> ummm, are yoi thr channel nazi Mr_You?
<neilt> no no
<neilt> no
<chillywilly> it's all arketing
<chillywilly> we need a better balance like the constitution calls for
<chillywilly> where no one has too much power
<Mr_You> M$ is the past, lets talk about the future
<chillywilly> the internet symbolizes this
<chillywilly> M$ certainly does not
<chillywilly> TJ wanted to put provisions in the constitution against monopolies
<chillywilly> it is too one sided where the corporations and buying the laws they need and undermining the ppl and they get away with it because ppl are so apathetic and have given up long ago (nice run-on sentence)
<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> I wonder what the going rate for a law is these days
<chillywilly> ask M$
<chillywilly> or Disney
<chillywilly> etc.
<neilt> the curious going rate is the cost to stop a law
<Isomer> hrm
<Isomer> www.opensecrets.org
<Isomer> IIRC
<Isomer> neilt: true true
<chillywilly> neilt: well you can try to use the system as intended, but....heh well that's not working so good....but I also blame ppl for not being politically active anymore and not wanting to get off their ass and do something about things
Action: chillywilly has been known to use protest signs ;)
<Isomer> cw: with trout on them?
<chillywilly> hehe
<neilt> whats interesting the the owner of the company i work for's (and my boss's) best friend was Gore's campaign manager
<neilt> so i am learning a lot about politics
<chillywilly> I;ve had just about enough of this 2-party system that I can take....
<chillywilly> I want a party that is for the ppla nd not one that is bought
<neilt> the system really works well when compared to the alternatives
<chillywilly> umm, I don't beleive in our system at all....it's not working at all...it's basically all about the money as is every damn thing...what's the point? How is having a pile of money going to help make the world a better place?
<neilt> chillywilly:  that does not play for the best country in the world to live in
<neilt> you've been brainwashed
<chillywilly> heh, now you're resorting to insults?
<neilt> no not at all
<chillywilly> you're the one who is brainwashed
<neilt> maybe
<neilt> surly you dont imply that because i disagree with you that i am insulting you
<neilt> because that just not the case
<chillywilly> you called me brainwashed
<chillywilly> that's kind of insulting
<chillywilly> like i have no mind of my own
<Mr_You> the system works, just need more parties 
<Mr_You> campaign finance reform, etc.
<chillywilly> yes, the system as it is intended would work great
<chillywilly> but it's not carried out that way
<neilt> sure it is
<chillywilly> look at the DMCA, you think that is constitutional?
<neilt> but you have to look at the really happens, not what you hear in the news
<neilt> we are not talking about DMCA
<neilt> we are talking about the government
<chillywilly> it's bullshit...ppl need to realize that times are chaning and they need to find other ways to make their money rather than killing free use, etc.
<chillywilly> DMCA is a product of our corrupt system
<Mr_You> try to think of one thing which has been "perfect" through out a single lifetime or multiple generations
<chillywilly> it applies
<neilt> DMCA is bad
<neilt> we need to kill it
<Mr_You> everything is in constant change
<chillywilly> heh, it's not going to happen
<chillywilly> it has been bought and paid for
<neilt> freedom means that special interests have a freedom to suggest and attempt to get self serving things done
<neilt> that is freedom
<neilt> and we need to see that it is defeated
<neilt> and it will be
<neilt> because the system works in the long run
<Mr_You> politicians never think long-term
<neilt> thats what the people are for
<Mr_You> they believe the next-generations can worry about that
<chillywilly> then maybe we need less of them
<neilt> the politicians only represent the people
<chillywilly> heh, no they don't
<neilt> yes they 
<chillywilly> they are supposed to
<neilt> do
<Mr_You> they represent who puts them in office
<Mr_You> they represent who they think put them in office
<neilt> it is a complicated systems, but its still better than the alternatives
<neilt> they do in the end represent the people
<neilt> there will never be a perfect system
<neilt> but all in all, they are doing a good job
<chillywilly> that's an excuse to stop trying
<neilt> there is no excuse to stop trying
<Mr_You> there could be a perfect system if people in general were more concerned about other things than themselves
<neilt> in that we agree
<chillywilly> I thinknthe systemis nice if implemented as intended
<neilt> the system only works if we participate and make our voice heard
<chillywilly> which not everyone does nor do they care, which is sad
<chillywilly> but ppl aren't elected they are bought in this country
<neilt> chillywilly:  not true in generall
<neilt> but i does happen from time to time
<neilt> s/i/it
<chillywilly> this is the United Corporations of America, for the dollar and by the dollar
<neilt> chillywilly: it appears that you live in a really sad world
<neilt> i am glad it is not my world
<chillywilly> you are helping to create it
<chillywilly> directly
<Mr_You> thats incorrect
<chillywilly> sure he's like a big shot executive now
<chillywilly> ;P
<neilt> and proud of it
<neilt> but i have been before so its nothing new
<Mr_You> its still not directly, indirectly
<chillywilly> well I wouldn't think you would understand
<chillywilly> considering
<Mr_You> currency is not the definition of a gov't, it is just currency
<chillywilly> yea, some ppl need to wake up and smell the coffee
<neilt> chillywilly:  in that we agree
<Mr_You> smell what coffee?
<Mr_You> I'm still not sure what you're specificly disatisfied with, just in general it seems
<chillywilly> whatever
<chillywilly> I am going to be wiht my family which is what is most important right now
<chillywilly> bye
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<Mr_You> whatever is not an answer to my question, but thats fine if you don't want to answer
<Mr_You> any application proposals anytime soon?
<Mr_You> this psu comment looks good, lemme read
<derek> btw: i kind of agree w/ chilly in buying xbox puts revenue in M$ pocket
<derek> and only helps kill 'competition' in the console market
<derek> that said i agree w/ mdean as well about computer being enough :)
<derek> BUT
<derek> i also gave disney a big butt chunk of change to enjoy their amusement parks]
<derek> which only helps give them a bigger war chest to make legislation to restrict my freedom
<derek> so i cant really agrue much w/o being a hippocrite on that issue :)
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<kreiszner> derek: Is Derek out there.
<chillywilly> maybe
<chillywilly> you never knwo when da masta will appear
<chillywilly> knwo even
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> I did it again
<chillywilly> some day I will learn to type and then everyone better look out ;P
<kreiszner> I am completely new to this IRC thing and I was trying to arrouse him to get some preliminary direction in installing gnue
<kreiszner> What roll do you play in this thing.
<chillywilly> court jester ;)
<chillywilly> j/k
<chillywilly> I hace contributed code to GEAS (the application server) and they actually let me gave cvs write access
<chillywilly> shace/have
<chillywilly> s/hace/have
<chillywilly> damn I should go to bed
<chillywilly> my typing is going down the tubes
<kreiszner> Well at least I know that this works. My thping is no better
<chillywilly> must....code....
<chillywilly> jim, I'm a doctor damnit, not a hacker
<kreiszner> k
<chillywilly> woops
<chillywilly> star trek flash backs
Action: chillywilly is trying to see how many code red mlountain dew cans he can stack on his desk
<chillywilly> er, mountain
<kreiszner> How do I you leave a message that will be brought to the attention of derek.
<chillywilly> ummm
<chillywilly> you can leave a memo with memoserv
<chillywilly> I have not used it though
<chillywilly> it just bugs me after I identify with my nick
<chillywilly> you may have to register your nick name to do it
<chillywilly> [20:42:42] -NickServ- Password accepted - you are now recognized
<chillywilly> [20:42:45] --- services. sets mode +e chillywilly
<chillywilly> [20:42:45] -MemoServ- You have no new memos
<chillywilly> we have nickserv, chanserv and memoserv
<chillywilly> all little server programs for registering channels, nick names, and leaving ppl memos
<chillywilly> you /msg them
<chillywilly> like
<chillywilly> to register your nick
<chillywilly> you do
<chillywilly>  /msg nickserv register <password>
<chillywilly> I think
<chillywilly> where you pick the password of course
<chillywilly> I hope you are not bombarded with info ;)
<chillywilly> I tend to ramble
<nickr> hotchy motchy
<kreiszner> I noticed
<chillywilly> nickr: you live!
<chillywilly> ;P
<nickr> I sure do.
<chillywilly> sup g money
<nickr> namuch cdawg
<kreiszner> When derek says install dependencies that means things like pearl, wxWindows and the third thing.
<kreiszner> Do you have to install all three
<chillywilly> yea, code that is used by GNUe code
<nickr> python
<chillywilly> yea we don;t use perl
<nickr> I don't think gnue depends on perl
<chillywilly> its python
<chillywilly> you need to install them all
<kreiszner> Sorry about error
<chillywilly> you using redhat?
<chillywilly> what GNU/Linux distro you got?
<kreiszner> Does Red Hat 7.2 install all of these if you install everything.
<chillywilly> ummm, I have no idea but jyou can probbaly get rpms of all of them
Action: chillywilly uses Debian
<nickr> possibly
<chillywilly> you know how to install an rpm and stuff?
<chillywilly> you can first query the installed packages to see if they are already installed
Action: chillywilly tries to remember rpm syntax
<chillywilly> you can do: rpm -qa | grep python form the shell
<kreiszner> I also use Corel R2 (I understand Dibian derivative) on my file and print server because it was easy to set up for a novice
<chillywilly> yea, that was a debian derivative....that distro is dead now
<chillywilly> they aren't making it anymore unfortunately
<kreiszner> I havn't been ver successful in installing RPM's in the past
<chillywilly> well you can do the query all thing and grep for strings to see if you already have python, etc. installed
<kreiszner> I saw where some group was planning to revive Corel L it but I suspect it will take a while
<chillywilly> like: rpm -qa | grep <string>
<chillywilly> ok
<kreiszner> How do you query all
<chillywilly> rpm -qa
<chillywilly> that will list everything
<chillywilly> iirc
<chillywilly> everything that is installed
<chillywilly> to narrow things down you 'pipe' that output into grep like this: rpm -qa | grep <string>
<chillywilly> where <string> is python, wxwindows, etc.
<chillywilly> whatever you want to look for
<chillywilly> of course there's other ways of doing it....but we won't go there I don't want to confuse you
<kreiszner> I did the rpm -qa and gosh. I did a rpm -q python and got 1.5.2-35
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> that version is a bit old
<chillywilly> I think we require python 2.x now
<kreiszner> does grep creat a file
<chillywilly> you said redhat 7.1 right?
<kreiszner> RH 7.2
<chillywilly> kreiszner: no it seraches for strings....see the pipe takes output and reroutes it into input
<chillywilly> it's a way to glue 2 programs together
<chillywilly> but you don't really nedd to worry about it
<kreiszner> When you are in a shell how do you send the output to a file instead of the screen.
<chillywilly> like this
<chillywilly> rpm -qa > file
<chillywilly> that will stick it in a file named 'file'
<chillywilly> the output from rpm
<chillywilly> that is
<kreiszner> gosh thats simple enough. Thats the prob. with being a newbie.
<chillywilly> the '>' redirects standard out
<kreiszner> how do you print from the shell
<chillywilly> use the lpr command
<chillywilly> that hsould send it to a printer
<chillywilly> but you have to have your printing configured
<derek> kreiszner: hello
<chillywilly> there he is
<kreiszner> hello
<derek> we need to find jbailey
<derek> kreiszner: i think he could easily convert your corel box to debian
<chillywilly> ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/redhat/7.2/en/os/i386/RedHat/RPMS/python2-2.1.1-2.i386.rpm
<chillywilly> there's python for ya
<chillywilly> ;)
<kreiszner> chillywilly has been telling me that the dependencies I need to set up are the ones that I downloaded from your web site so my next step is to try to install them
<chillywilly> derek: it is easy you just point it to a debian mirror and update
<kreiszner> I would love to convert it to Dibian
<derek> kreiszner: up front do you plan on using any windows clients?
<derek> or only linux clients
<derek> chillywilly: im not sure if it would be as easy as changing apt sources and doing dist-upgrade
<chillywilly> well progeny is
<chillywilly> I don't see why corel would not be
<derek> if you plan on using any windows clients i think it might be best to get postgres installed on your server
<chillywilly> but I'm not an expert on it
<derek> and then setup a windows gnue client to test it out
<chillywilly> maybe good ol' nickr would know
<derek> and then we can work on the linux client
<derek> yeah nickr would likely know
<nickr> I think its possible to convert corel to debian
<chillywilly> me too ;)
<nickr> if corel is based on a reasonbly recent iteration
<chillywilly> it might be based on slink
<chillywilly> isn't corel pretyy old?
<chillywilly> pretty
<nickr> that may present an issue
<nickr> yea
<derek> nah i dont think its that old
<derek> i think its based off potato
<derek> kreiszner: you still here?
<chillywilly> then there should be no problems
<chillywilly> (or relatively few)
<chillywilly> if I wasn;t so lazy I would investigate the matter
<kreiszner> sorry my daughter just called
<chillywilly> it's called corel easy linux right?
<kreiszner> she is traveling 
<derek> ah
<derek> let me know when you are done
<nickr> ls
<kreiszner> I back
<derek> cat: ls
<derek> : No such file or directory
<nickr> woop
<derek> kreiszner: did you plan on using any windows machines?
<chillywilly> linux.corel.com redirects to http://www.xandros.net/
Action: derek is thinking if you have a windows box maybe we start there
<derek> as it should take all of 10 minutes to get up and running
<derek> so you have an idea of what is there
<chillywilly> the on .exe should ne painless
<kreiszner> I had thought about setting up the client on both the windows and RH 7.2 because they are both on the same machine w dual boot.
<chillywilly> s/on/one
<derek> then we can work on getting your server and clients up to snuff
<derek> of course we want to make it so you do NOT need windows anymore :)
<kreiszner> of course
<derek> are you in windows or linux now?
<derek> if linux are you on the corel or the redhat box?
<chillywilly> he running the real OS ;)
<chillywilly> he's
<kreiszner> thats fine with me I already installed at least 2 of the 3 dependencies on windows.
<derek> kreiszner: in windows you dont have to install any dependencies :)
<kreiszner> RH 7.2
<derek> ok lets get your rh7.2 machine ready :)
<kreiszner> I have yet to get IRC up and running in Windows
<derek> no lets do the linux box
<kreiszner> OK
<derek> i have time :)
<derek> and would rather see you on linux :)
<derek> open a terminal window
<derek> and su
<derek> i.e. have root access
<derek> btw: you run gnome or kde (or some other window manager?)
<chillywilly>  ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/redhat/7.2/en/os/i386/RedHat/RPMS/python2-2.1.1-2.i386.rpm
<chillywilly> there's the python rpm
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> he's got an old 1.5.2 python
<chillywilly> installed
<derek> thats fine
<derek> kreiszner: you still here?
<chillywilly> you need 2.x now right?
<kreiszner> I am running K right now but both instlled.
<derek> kreiszner: cool, just checking :)
<derek> you have terminal open?
<derek> and root?
<derek> if so do rpm -qa | grep python
<derek> and paste the output here
<kreiszner> How do you make a note with the kreiszne: thing
<derek> you using xchat?
<kreiszner> I am trying to open a terminal
<derek> if so type the first letter or two of persons nick and hit tab key
<derek> and it will autocomplete and add the :
<nickr> its called konsole in kde
<derek> nickr: thanks :) i dont use kde so i had no clue 
<derek> i think it looks like a monitor w/ a shell in the corner
<chillywilly> nickr: you admit to using kde?
<derek> on your bottom bar (iirc) been long time
<chillywilly> brb
<nickr> chillywilly: no, I admit that lusers that I know use KDE so I occationally have to help them
<nickr> I admit nothing!
<derek> kreiszner: you able to get konsole up?
<kreiszner> It seems to hate me but I have a shell console open as root on 1 will that do
<kreiszner> I now have a console up as root
<derek> ok do that rpm -qa | grep python
<chillywilly> good job
<chillywilly> ;)
<derek> and paste output here
<chillywilly> nickr: hehe
<chillywilly> [23:04:22] <chillywilly> you can do: rpm -qa | grep python from the shell
<chillywilly> derek: don't you read the back log?
<chillywilly> he said he had 1.5.2
<derek> cool your jets :)
<kreiszner> How do you copy from console
<chillywilly> derek: never
<chillywilly> that's what the man wants be to do
<chillywilly> but you know what I say about that
<derek> highlight it with mouse in console
<chillywilly> f*** the man
<derek> then click in the window you are typing to talk to us
<derek> and then click left and right mouse at same time 
<derek> iirc
<kreiszner> iirc
<derek> iirc == if i remember correctly
<chillywilly> recall
<chillywilly> ;P
<kreiszner> I am confused.
<derek> cant get it to paste?
<kreiszner> not so far
<derek> ok can you just type what the output was?
<derek> you only have python-1.5.2
<derek> or was more listed?
<kreiszner> When I highlight in terminal am I supposed to do anything else
<derek> nope
<kreiszner> yes only 1.5.2
<derek> i think i have almost all the dependencies downloaded now
<kreiszner> iirc ==
<derek> i was going to upload them to our website for you
<derek> once you have the terminal highlighted (the text you want to copy)
<derek> then go to where you want to paste it (in this case xchat)
<derek> and click left and right mouse buttons at the same time (to do the paste)
<kreiszner> I may already have 2.2.7 downloaded
<derek> the iirc is short hand for saying if i remember correctly
--- Sat Jan  5 2002