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<ra3vat> hey ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi ra3vat
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<baux> hi all!
<reinhard> hi baux
<reinhard> oops
<reinhard> i nearly wrote "beaux"
<reinhard> :)
<baux> reinhard: don't worry
<baux> reinhard: I'm playng with geas 
<baux> reinhard: my goal is to write a perl method wich read (loadAll) an object in db
<baux> reinhard: and return it for a client
<baux> reinhard: I'm reading docs but them are very thigth
<baux> could you help me? Or is there some reference to python object
<reinhard> in any case i will try to help you
<reinhard> if you can wait until evening today (maybe)
<reinhard> currently i have lim(free_time)->zero
<baux> oki, thank you anyway
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<Yurik> re
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<Yurik> chillywilly hi
<Yurik> ToyMan hi
<ToyMan> hey Yurik
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<Yurik> jamest hi
<jamest> hi
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Action: derek is away: work
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<Yurik> neilt hi
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<madlocke> jamest: you are here?
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Action: dsmith is away: trying to scrounge up some lunch
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<dneighbo> http://slashdot.org/interviews/02/01/15/2040217.shtml
<dneighbo> is good reading
<dneighbo> http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/16/1427236&mode=nocomment
<dneighbo> i think this is yurik's project
<jcater> yip
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Action: dsmith is away: realy away: yes.  must find lunch!
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<dneighbo> ToyMan i tried in vain to get a cdrom burner :(
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<dneighbo> my cdrom at home died (all of them)
<ToyMan> same here
<dneighbo> i went out to store to get one cheap
<ToyMan> struck out @ staples
<dneighbo> 49.99 (for like 10x10x40)
<dneighbo> @ office max
<dneighbo> they were out
<dneighbo> spent 40 minutes in store while they called other stores
<dneighbo> finally the found one in Casa Crande (small town about 1 hour outside city)
<dneighbo> they are having it shipped up to my store
<dneighbo> will be here on thursday
<dneighbo> just wanted to give you update
<dneighbo> and let you know not forgetting about you , i REALLY wanted to get rolling on stuff yesterday
<dneighbo> in fact that was leading item in my journal... how excited i was to start
<dneighbo> the second entry was me swearing about the cdrom :)
Action: dsmith is back (gone 00:54:58)
<ToyMan> just implemented a recursive walk thru BOM to cost out inventory
<ToyMan> that was the last function I needed to recode to be done with the old DOS app
<dneighbo> cool
<dneighbo> question...
<dneighbo> is there really a reason to run an 'ftp' server?
<dneighbo> other than asking for trouble?
<ToyMan> scp is better obviously
<ToyMan> kio_fish is a module you can install into konq
<ToyMan> integrates ssh and scp into konq
<jamest> web tools will support ftp before they support ssh
<jamest> i have a web server running ftp for a client
<jamest> as his web tools only do ftp (so I'm told)
<jamest> !@#!@3 mac user ;)
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> mac has internet explorer (iirc)
<dneighbo> and internet explorer supports http
<dneighbo> i guess the question was more why not use http/https instead of ftp
<jamest> because their web dev tool only did ftp
<jamest> i don't know what they use
<jamest> think it was dreamweaver
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<dneighbo> ah....
<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/dse-references.png
<dneighbo> well they suck then :)
<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/dse-schema.png
<dneighbo> jcater cool
<dneighbo> im still trying to grasp fully all the value
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<dneighbo> but i like the idea of being able to see at consolidated level ):
<chillywilly> hi
<dneighbo> :) even
<chillywilly> has ajmitch spoken at all today?
<jcater> and yes, boys and girls, the "Schema" tab is a list of fields from the database
<jcater> and yes they can be dragged onto the canvas
<jcater> to automatically create "Entries"
<dneighbo> reference tab is pretty damn cool
Action: dneighbo is beginning to see this as a threat from jcater
<jcater> eh?
<dneighbo> basically saying, derek if you dont start writing that user guide soon
<dneighbo> im gonna bury your ass so deep in features you will being authoring the guide until you rest in your coffin
<jcater> the schema tab rocks my socks up and down my block
<dneighbo> i ASSUME that the schema tab isnt 'odbc' friendly
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> nope
<dneighbo> i.e. if introspection aint there schema tab does .....
<dneighbo> i.e. i realize the limitation
<jcater> ...nothing
<dneighbo> ok
<dneighbo> thats acceptable :)
<jcater> it shouldn't crash
<dneighbo> just wanted to make sure it didnt segfault all over
<jcater> it should just stay blank
Action: chillywilly thinks it is funny that ppl on the LUG list thing 60k is not good pay
<chillywilly> wtf?!?
<dneighbo> it might be worth either throwing a dialog box
<jcater> actually, it does nothing until you "Connect To" a database
<dneighbo> or putting a label out there
Action: chillywilly would take 60k in a heart beat
<dneighbo> that basically it 'tries to introspect'
<jcater> 60k?
<chillywilly> yes
<jcater> I wouldn't wake up in the morning for 60k
<jcater> j/k
<chillywilly> er?
<dneighbo> and if fails gives message/label that says cant introspect
<chillywilly> seriously?
<dneighbo> chillywilly its all relative dood
<chillywilly> dude I am making like nothing
<dneighbo> if i was in MA or CA i wouldnt wake up for 60k
<chillywilly> this is WI though
<dneighbo> that might sound snobby, but 60k is barely enough to live (comparetively) in markets like that w/ a family
<dneighbo> i.e. in SF like 2 HOURS from work w/o traffic
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> well 60k is damn good money here
<dneighbo> house size of my current house same year etc
<chillywilly> imho
<dneighbo> was 490,000 duckets
<dneighbo> 60k aint gonna cover that mortgage payment plus bills
<chillywilly> hey I only make $12/hr at this stupid ass job
<dneighbo> even if i didnt have vehicles
<dneighbo> no granted i could have got a home w/ half the space
<chillywilly> so I make a little over 20k right now
<dneighbo> close in town
<dneighbo> and it would have only cost 410,000
<dneighbo> but it would have been 70 years older :)
Action: chillywilly is going to apply to this job, especially if ppl think it is little pay
<dneighbo> and still 60k wouldnt come close to paying rent
<chillywilly> I can triple what I am making
<dneighbo> chillywilly minor advice
<dneighbo> if you want in the computer industry 
<dneighbo> be willing to take even less than 12 an hour
<dneighbo> i mean the EXPERIENCE for a resume is critical
<dneighbo> when i decided to do computers i was screwed
<dneighbo> i was a manager for macys
<dneighbo> i didnt make much but it was far more than entry level programming
<dneighbo> i had to swallow the pill and take a pay cut
<dneighbo> to get foot in door
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<chillywilly> but do you have a computer engineering degree from the top school in WI?
<dneighbo> but w/in a year my pay doubled
<chillywilly> ppl like MSOE
<dneighbo> chillywilly a GOOD manager knows a degree doesnt mean shit
<dneighbo> other than you have 'ability' to learn
<dneighbo> and honestly if i have deadlines
<dneighbo> i dont give a shit if you can learn
<dneighbo> i need someone who can PRODUCE
<dneighbo> its a sad reality
<chillywilly> whatever, I don;t need you fucking ruining my day here, I am depressed enough
<dneighbo> chillywilly not trying to ruin your day
<chillywilly> WHATEVR
<dneighbo> by all means apply for things you think are qualified for
<dneighbo> as NOT all people arent willing to take risks
<jcater> dude?
<jcater> why would this be ruining your day?
<dneighbo> im just saying if a programming job presents itself regardless of pay i would consider using it as a stepping stone
<chillywilly> I would do it for thre experience alone
<chillywilly> you;re not telling me anything new
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<chillywilly> I did have a programming job for a while
<dsmith> chillywilly: What do you do now?
<chillywilly> it was too much to drive an hour every day from downtown Milwaukee...especially when I would have to go all the way back to school for a damn dsenior design meeting
<chillywilly> I am a technician at a fire alarm company
<chillywilly> btw, dneighbo I am doing a programming job right now for $0/hr ;)
<dneighbo> chillywilly cool
<dneighbo> btw: i really didnt mean to try to piss on your day
<dneighbo> i was trying to basically say
<dsmith> Driving for long is a pain.  I've always pretty much limited myself to 30 minutes.
<dneighbo> who cares what the LUG thinks of pay range :)
<dneighbo> dsmith driving sucks
<dneighbo> BUT if you have a family
<dneighbo> suburbia has it payoffs
<chillywilly> well I am just apalled that they would scoff at 60k
<dneighbo> i can make a LOT more money working downtown
<jcater> chillywilly: it's called "hot air"
<dneighbo> and can get a lot more for it outside the city
<dneighbo> since i am one in the family of 5
<jcater> chillywilly: truth be known, they probably all applied and got rejected
<dneighbo> the 4 that dont commute get all the gain
<jcater> chillywilly: so downplayed it in the list
<jcater> ;)
<dneighbo> and im wililng to suffer a crappy commute to give them 'better things in life'
<chillywilly> I doubt it unless they could apply and get back to them in like 2 minutes
<dneighbo> if i were single i would just move down town :)
<dsmith> heh, when you as > 40 and are looking at school for your kids, and you just got a brand new mortgage, and your wife doesn't work, well, 60k isn't that much.
<chillywilly> there's 2 good jobs on there that ppl posted
Action: dsmith knows os these things
<dneighbo> dsmith: :)
<dsmith> OF
<jcater> chillywilly: if I see a job I want that pays what I want and others also want the job, I'm gonna make them think its a shitty job -- why bother applying
<dneighbo> dsmith i have found the KEY element in your statement is 'wife doesnt work'
<chillywilly> jcater: true
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<dsmith> She's looking, but hasn't worked since before my 17 year odl was born.
<dsmith> Nusing licence has lapsed.  Would need ot go back to school.
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<chillywilly> so no ajmitchie or what guys?
<chillywilly> man, I have to go shovel the fucking snow
<chillywilly> masta, can I move in with you? ;)
<chillywilly> I want to feel the hot desert sun on my face
<chillywilly> :)
Action: chillywilly is away: shoveling the fucking snow
Action: dneighbo didnt know that snow reproduced......
<dneighbo> but i suppose it makes sense, it has to 'come from somewhere'
Action: dneighbo would personally be courtieous enough to wait for it to end its reproductive cycle before shoveling it though
<dsmith> Yes, with a satisfying cup of tea! (or other warm beverage)
Action: dsmith is away: home! (before 6 too!)
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:47:26)
<chillywilly> hehe
Action: chillywilly is winded
<chillywilly> I should've bought my mom a snow blower for christmas
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<jcater> woohoo
<jcater> dneighbo: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/dse-references.png
<jcater> this time, it shows master/detail relationships in the top half
Action: jcater is gloating
<jcater> it's been a good day
<jcater> s/day/week
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<chillywilly> oh, but it uses that evil gtk+ toolkit
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> eh?
<chillywilly> where's the kde ui plugin at?
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: jcater thinks chillywilly's talking to himself?
<chillywilly> I am talkig to you fewl
<jcater> err, believe me, that will be part of my UI rewrite :)
<chillywilly> who cares?
<chillywilly> kde sux
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> sux your momma
<jcater> err, that made no sense
<jcater> nevermind
<chillywilly> heh, retard
<chillywilly> anyway
<jcater> actually, I do have issues w/it using GTK+
<chillywilly> say you write a 2-tier application with forms, reports, etc. how does this fit in with GNUe, what things will constitute an official GNUe package?
<jcater> you are asking the wrong person
<chillywilly> heh
<jcater> as I have no clue
<chillywilly> I am just asking period
<chillywilly> hoping someone knows the asnwer
<chillywilly> how do you bundle your call senter app?
<chillywilly> center
<jcater> eh?
<jcater> that's not for redistribution
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> what if someone else wants to run a call center then?
<jcater> um
<jcater> I'm writing an app for my callcenter
<jcater> not necessarily a "callcenter app"
<jcater> if that makes sense
<chillywilly> umm
<chillywilly> it is software to runa  call center?
<chillywilly> just like GNUe will eventually be softwrae to run a busines
<chillywilly> right?
<chillywilly> mayvbe/
<chillywilly> I dunno
<chillywilly> anyway
<chillywilly> what I am working on now for $0/hr ;)
<chillywilly> is this sofwtare to manage a TRIO program
<chillywilly> I wanto use forms and convert our stinking PHP code to using GNUe Forms + pyhton
<chillywilly> python even
<chillywilly> I was wonder how such a solution would fit into the grand scheme of GNUe
<chillywilly> any ideas?
<chillywilly> I might start my own little meta project called eTRIO or something
<chillywilly> as I have softwrae to provide services for the program participants and allow staff to manage them (which wil be GNUe converted) and I also want to do more and write some stuff to handle the business side of running such a program
<chillywilly> they basically write a report every so often
<chillywilly> and geta  grant form the board of education
<chillywilly> (maybe every 2 to 4 years, I dunno)
<chillywilly> but that [art I would need to work with them more cosely to find out how they run their operation
<chillywilly> so does anyone have any ideas?
<chillywilly> I suppose we are going to have generic packages that one would extend to a specific enterprise?
<chillywilly> hello?
<chillywilly> jc?
<chillywilly> masta?
<chillywilly> ppl!?!?!
<chillywilly> another time then I gues
<chillywilly> hey are there any examples of forms with triggers and everything?
<chillywilly> in cvs
<dsmith> You are Not Alone chillywilly
<chillywilly> ok
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<chillywilly> hi neilt
<nickr> man, safish rules
<nickr> sawfish
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<dsmith> nickr: lisp!
<dneighbo> im here
<dneighbo> kind of
<dneighbo> samples/track/ is probably most ocmplete sample in cvs
<dneighbo> there are other much more functional forms but not in cvs
<dneighbo> as they are not for redistribution
<dneighbo> the reason why is because they were bolted on to existing systems
<dneighbo> i.e. highly customized
<dneighbo> so to answer for jcater .....
<dneighbo> his call center app is highly specific to his installation
<chillywilly> yes
<dneighbo> right down to using existing oracle database structures
<chillywilly> I see that now
<dneighbo> which are really of no value to other gnue users
<dneighbo> if that makes sense
<chillywilly> ok
<dneighbo> so they are not so much being kept propietary to 'hide' from other people
<dneighbo> as much as there isnt real inhernit value in them to others
<chillywilly> this app that I have is useful to programs all over the country (potentially anyway ;) )
<dneighbo> i am in same boat with some title mangagement stuff
<dneighbo> as for 'official' gnue apps
<dneighbo> probably neilt and i have dicussed in the most detail
<chillywilly> yes?
<dneighbo> but i dont think we have an 'official' view yet
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> I feared that
<chillywilly> ah well
<dneighbo> my thinking is at this point write what you need, but try to adhere to 'similar' philosphies
<chillywilly> a figure it out as we go sorta thing eh?
<chillywilly> ok
<dneighbo> or if you want it to be official right of box
<chillywilly> yes?
<dneighbo> step up and be the first :)
<chillywilly> hehe
<dneighbo> i.e. force us to make the decisions we havent had to yet :)
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> make you set down some ppolicy eh?
<dneighbo> as on many items we ahve 'discussed' but havent been happy w/ a single answer
<dneighbo> and we felt it best in some respects to let the first 'application authors' hit the wall
<dneighbo> so we could have more 'real' data in which to base our decisions
<chillywilly> ok
<dneighbo> i would say at this point 
<dneighbo> if its gpl
<dneighbo> uses gfd's
<chillywilly> could you discuss project management stuff with me right now?
<dneighbo> there is good chance it will get plenty of press from us :)
<chillywilly> kewl
<dneighbo> i actually have to run to make it home for bible study
<chillywilly> ok
<dneighbo> and wont be on until after that
<chillywilly> I'll be here then
<dneighbo> i would gladly discuss these things with you then
<dneighbo> just didnt want you to feel ignored :)
<chillywilly> I would GREATLY appreciate any time you csan give me :)
<chillywilly> I know how it is dude
<chillywilly> ;)
<dneighbo> ok be back later....
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<chillywilly> what kinda quit message is that?
<ajmitch> BX
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<neilt> chillywilly: hey
<chillywilly> hey hey
<neilt> later all
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<jcater> derek: msg me when you get in
<chillywilly> er?
<chillywilly> collusion is not allowed din GNUe ;)
<chillywilly> j/k
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<jcater> dewds
<jcater> quiet day today
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> wonder if that means real work got done
<jcater> ;)
<ra3vat> can anyone try "nslookup 195.239.204.226" for me?
<chillywilly> frell:/var/log# host 195.239.204.226 
<chillywilly> Name: inf1226.tlt.ru
<chillywilly> Address: 195.239.204.226
<jcater>  nslookup 195.239.204.226
<jcater> Note:  nslookup is deprecated and may be removed from future releases.
<jcater> Consider using the `dig' or `host' programs instead.  Run nslookup with
<jcater> the `-sil[ent]' option to prevent this message from appearing.
<jcater> Server:         127.0.0.1
<jcater> Address:        127.0.0.1#53
<jcater> Non-authoritative answer:
<jcater> 226.204.239.195.in-addr.arpa    name = inf1226.tlt.ru.
<jcater> Authoritative answers can be found from:
<chillywilly> use host silly
<jcater> 204.239.195.in-addr.arpa        nameserver = ns.sovam.com.
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> 204.239.195.in-addr.arpa        nameserver = ns.tlt.ru.
<jcater> ns.tlt.ru       internet address = 213.59.152.40
<jcater> ns.sovam.com    internet address = 194.67.2.97
<jcater> oops
<jcater> chilly beat me to the draw
<jcater> depends on what your looking for
<chillywilly> host == nslookup
<chillywilly> dig == lots of stuff
<chillywilly> ;P
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<ra3vat> thanks jcater, chillywilly
<jcater> later all
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--- Thu Jan 17 2002