reinhard (~rm@N808P001.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. sup reinhard hey chilly fitzix (fitzix@63.137.252.64.snet.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" how's it going old man ;)? he is pretty old chillywilly probably hard of seeing you might have to TYPE a little LOUDER Action: derek is away: zzzz hehe t3rmin4t0r (~panji@202.88.233.182) joined #gnuenterprise. hi guys, just looking around :) heh chillywilly_ (~danielb@d87.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. t3rmin4t0r: hasta la vista! ;) lol so what is gnue upto now ? ajmitch (me@p61-max2.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: "http://www.freedevelopers.net" Action: t3rmin4t0r is not reading news these days michaell (~michaell@bg20.anu.edu.au) joined #gnuenterprise. t3rmin4t0r (panji@202.88.233.182) left irc: Remote closed the connection GNU's making startrek episodes now? go RMS! :) chillywilly (danielb@d136.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) michaell (~michaell@bg20.anu.edu.au) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). chillywilly_ (danielb@d87.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: baux (baux@217.27.80.2) left irc: "Client Exiting" chillywilly (~danielb@d87.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-1-ip141.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d87.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. re alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jamest hi hi alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. sigh Our jDoc technology creates compact, cross-platform, high-fidelity replicas of desktop documents that can be viewed immediately in any standard browser without plug-ins. alexey hi however, you do have to have a plug-in to print the !@#!@# things Action: jamest wonders if they'd heard of pdf jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. 'sup? Yurik: hello jcater hi hello reinhard (rm@N808P001.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "The more often you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets" joebullhead (~joe@h-64-105-244-252.ATLNGAHP.covad.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dres__ (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) dres__ (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) joebullhead (joe@h-64-105-244-252.ATLNGAHP.covad.net) left irc: "I'm too lame to make a quit message" ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip141.albany.thebiz.net) got netsplit. ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-1-ip141.albany.thebiz.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. list *bsd* heh oops reinhard (~rm@62.47.44.225) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest ? jcater ? help :) wassup? reinhard (rm@62.47.44.225) left irc: "If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody" Action: jcater is away: lunch Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. re alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting" ajmitch (~me@p17-max10.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: jcater is back (gone 00:33:07) jcater re ajmitch hi Yurik: hi ra3vat (ds@195.239.204.226) left irc: "Client Exiting" dsmith (~dsmith@d131.as4.clev.oh.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith hi Good Afternoon Yurik Yurik: My mothers grandparents were Ukranian. From Chernobyl and Kiev I think. s/mother/wife/ Sheesh! dsmith great :-) dsmith (dsmith@d131.as4.clev.oh.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip141.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-1-ip141.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan hi hey Yurik ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip141.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-1-ip141.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@d17.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. stbain (GunAndGiz@ip68-10-35-64.rn.hr.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. greetings all sup I think I found the "Killer app" that will bring GNUe into the limelight sounds useful I'm a network engineer and I was out at one of my customer's locations today changing IP and routing information for his SCO box while we were waiting for Daimler-Chrysler support, he was explaining the relationship between ADP and their 16,000 automotive and truck dealerships ADP is pretty much gouging them for support, installation, and maintenance on obsolete technolog y it's nothing for some dealerships to spend up to $45K to add 12 users at an existing location to access their ADP box ADP maintains complete control over the machines (UNIX on Motorola servers)... refuses to give out root passwords or work with third party vendors to implement new technologies or add new sites I'm on the mailing list, but it's been a while since I've hit the CVS... is GNUe ready to build a Dealer Management System on? you could hack up a 2-tier app with the forms client use designer to desgin your forms ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip141.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" how's the ncurses front end? the geas forms driver is not done yet , afaik ncurses is probably old and rotting away I;m not sure there's going to be a UI rewrite soon crap... capitalizing on their existing hardware (dumb terminals) would be a big selling point jamest or jcater would know for sure oh... BTW... they're willing to fund us :) well I have some free time ;) hehe *some* I won't scoff at extra cash though ;) s/though// oh... and do you know off the top of your head how much it would take to port forms to a java swing interface? we have a Java forms client however the proper thing to do would be to write java ui plugin Action: stbain waits for the punchline hrmm and swing is non-free doh hmm what about using jython to compile the python ui into java bytecode? I came to this project madlocke has ben working on a web ui thing after actually writing a swing-based forms app and is was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO painfully slow s/ben/been that I couldn't use it in production hence, I'm here :) and helping w/GNUe python kicks java's ass and it always will kick java's ass but it is certainly possible to port forsm to java/swing actually, we consider the Python forms to be a "reference" implementation not necessarily the "only" implementation but... doing the python/wxpython installation on every workstation might get to be a pain in the arse isn't there suppor though for ui plugins? support stbain: true what about compiling forms w/ py2exe? but I've done two things here so you could add to the exiting forms clien tclient stbain: these windows stations or linux? windows for now we have a setup.exe stbain: we have precompiled Windows binaries on the website and a few dumb terminals cool that contains EVERYTHING so easy winblows installation s/so/for so I guess it's the other tiers that need to be looked at stbain: I have two solutions here at NCS for linux long term I would hope you would want to use geas and define your business objects and methods, but ubtil then you could just use the forms client and a database and write som triggers and have a nice app 1. For one office, we use diskless terminals (LTSP) LTSP roxors so all the forms clients run on one server at our main office, I create a "static" python + wx install then tar it up and untar on all the other machines in effect creating a binary image btw, I'm not saying that is best or only way but an immediate solution I've come up with just food for thought well... the idea would be to get NADA support and have the entire dealer base in the country throw their weight behind the development effort(s) so we would definitely want to use a mature GEAS and use 3 tier design true of course, if this is REALLY short term, we can achieve 3-tier in other ways not really short term well if they have omney and time they can invest in GEAS development this whole idea just came up about 6 hours ago money btw, how far is reports jc? we could probably use help there too well, we need an output spec the engine works oh, ok I also discussed the problem w/ multiple vendors... GM, Chrysler, Ford, Honda, etc... they all have their proprietary protocols to access information from their networks but we need to figure out what our "Standard" xml output will be so I'm also thinking something along the lines of an Automotive Markup Language AML ;) need to specify the gfd fprmat? format chillywilly: eh?? er sorry grd reports file the grd is specs pretty much but reports will output XML that will then be I'm thinking we can work with OASIS and try to lobby for some support in that area that's the standard xml you arevtalking abot right? transformed to PS, PDF, CSV, etc nope oh duh it's spec'd (basically) output crap this is interesting Action: Yurik is back but I have a prior appointment so I will need to run in a sec k stbain: if you see dneighbo in here, hit him up he's good w/organizing, thinking, etc s/thinking/planning (we're all good at thinking :) nah, I suck ;P well, some better than others heh Action: stbain sees dneighbo now hehe jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat" dneighbo is da GNUe masta ;) what's the designer status? 0.1.0 good to go? very usable ok with new features added every day (prectically) cvs rocks! thansk to jcater no you rock jcater! :) it will display fields in a table and you can drag the fields onto the grid and it will automatically create the entries (this was done in the last week) thus, it's not in 0.1.0 Action: stbain goes to CVS shit I gotta get postgres setup still Action: chillywilly hasn't enabled access to it over his network jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home" Action: Yurik is involved in hacking and docs translations... wheeee,, hba.conf? yea, I haven't set it up at all gah designer crashed on me and jc left gah png problems crap danielb@obfuscation:~/src/cvs/gnue/designer$ client/gfdes libpng warning: Application was compiled with png.h from libpng-1.0.12 libpng warning: Application is running with png.c from libpng-1.2.1 libpng error: Incompatible libpng version in application and library ** ERROR **: No such image: tab_sel.png aborting... client/gfdes: line 14: 22797 Aborted (core dumped) /usr/local/bin/python /home/danielb/src/cvs/gnue/designer/../forms/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/GFDesigner.py $* I hate this second time libpng has bit me in the ass Action: chillywilly removes some debs fuck gah it crases on the new libpng and if I make it preoad the old one it won't draw pngs preload stupid debian packages hehe :-) eeek ok... here we go I just downloaded the entire CVS ran c:\python21\python setup.py install on common forms and designer no dice :/ upgrading wxWindows now Action: Yurik wants to smoke fitzix (~fitzix@63.137.252.64.snet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hello hi fitzix stbain (GunAndGiz@ip68-10-35-64.rn.hr.cox.net) left irc: "www.gunandgiz.com" hey hello Action: Yurik is back jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201026.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest re hi chillywilly_ (~danielb@d82.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d17.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Killed (NickServ (Ghost: chillywilly_!~danielb@d82.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net)) Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater hi whoaaa. too much good stuff :) stbain: if you are on windows dont use cvs dneighbo re instead grab the .exe's that way you dont have to install any dependencies they are all included we are PRIMED to run on vt100 as soon as curses support is back i think what you are asking is DEFINITELY do able w/ two tier as it sits right now as to java/swing, i would AVOID at ALL costs i see no value i.e. if you wanted java, i would write from scratch in java and not bother toying w/ gnue nevermind stbain is gone duh Heh doh! he heh swing is frought with compat perils... then again, so are all the java GUI extensions Action: fitzix thinks GTK+ is much more system-neutral dneighbo: well, I addressed some of your points, although maybe not as thoroughly :) yeah the backlog is hard to read in bitchx still at work? not sure what the questions were in some regards i.e. is stbain asking can this be done or asking for us to do it? if that makes sense um not really sure chillywilly : i dont work im unemployed hey, I am all for offering my services ;) what? seriously?!? what happened? no just kidding goof ball you just wanted to get me going ;) btw: jcater i have been carrying long threads w/ A+ a gpl implementation of APL APL a derivative of A created at morgan stanley its a 'gnarly' language that is pretty much all array based and lightning for math applications anyhow i use it a lot here at work cool for OLAP engine work you should use COBOL i think they (a+ developers) might be willing to write an OLAP engine cool jcater: we use cobol a lot too (on the os/390) OLAP is what again? that funky array sotrage replication stuff? Online Analytical Processing yeah its storage cubes, dimensions, lists etc think of 'multidimensional' storage and processing of that storage? that is duplicated for quick retreival and moving its 'views' quickly to make decisions a wannabe RAID or something ;) i think it will be VERY important for larger enterprises well not really where can you learn about it? I could see that being VERY useful in databases are there any FS tools out there for it? could be great for implementing XML and rdf parsers damn, I forgot to watch Star Trek fudge! my night is ruined now http://www.aplusdev.org/ is a+ home page btw: morgan stanley appears to be funding the development of this for those that are not 'market players' morgan stanley is one of the largest financial advice firms around http://www.morganstanley.com Action: chillywilly new that even though he is not a 'market player' knew Action: Yurik is out to smoke http://www.olapcouncil.org/ might be good olap resource k Action: jcater doesn't wanna think about olap gives me a headache hehe eek, it uses strang echracters it sufficiently fcks with your mind um APL is the strangest thing you will see olap I know imagine the best calculus minds in the country s/olap// write an olap engine in brain fuck doing vector analysis on financial data and ask them to do it wiht a computer and you end up with APL looks a little bit like haskell it might look a bit 'jacked up' but some of what it can do is truly amazing i would never want to write a db application w/ it Action: jcater is using designer w/Oracle + schema support Action: jcater is very happy but when you are talking 'cubes' (basically groups of arrays) Action: jcater may do a little dance you probably couldnt pick a better language nickr you think the characters are funny you can use 'ascii' mode BUT if you are german you are hosed i think you have to either buy a new keyboard or get special mapping files from teh net :) was speakign with guys and now are trying to move this into debian dneighbo: yes I see the difference in the pictures of it they have i think it will be with the little <- and ^ and such aplplus-fsf btw: the guys on that list blow me away several months ago i said i want somethign that does x y z 2 hours later the guy sent me source that did ALMOST what our commercial package here that we have over 800,000 bucks sunk in I'm impressed that Morgan STanley put out free software so my intention is to basically spec out a tool that does what im using here and there are volunteers there willing to do it as they are trying to get APL used in other places specifically linux and specifically the GPL version does this build cleanly on linux? i think it could be a NICE addition to the GNUe family im told it does build on linux they have a very helpful list what blows me away is most people on list are @ms.com i.e. this isnt some branch of MS code i think morgan stanley basically took all their APL stuff and is moving it GPL version as they see no value in a prop compiler Its a good plan as they arent in the software business hrm, maybe a good packaging project the APL guys of course are rabid to get anyone to try to APL :) makes sense as its a religion to them it looks like a properly complex math language sounds like the FOO partisans where FOO is any given language vecor analysis rules vector although if FOO isa functional language such as haskell they are probably more rabid the kick off process to try to get it into debian was interesting dres__ (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: SendQ exceeded an the list blew up :) dres__ (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. hm? now guys trying to get it in SuSE and other ones too jcater: you running any sid boxen? i.e. i sent some harmless mails that seems to have them excited :) Action: chillywilly is having libpng problems which make designer crash :( it looks like it takes from sh, C, and pascal extensively... fitzix (fitzix@63.137.252.64.snet.net) got netsplit. gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) got netsplit. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) got netsplit. dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) got netsplit. mdean-[zZzZ] (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) got netsplit. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) got netsplit. dres__ (dres@4.18.171.42) got netsplit. jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) got netsplit. jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201026.flinthills.com) got netsplit. Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) got netsplit. ah hah shit http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?archive=no\&bug=127606 cool gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) returned to #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201026.flinthills.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. dres__ (~dres@4.18.171.42) returned to #gnuenterprise. fitzix (~fitzix@63.137.252.64.snet.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. mdean-[zZzZ] (~mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) returned to #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by adams.openprojects.net dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) got lost in the net-split. jcater: why yes, of course... actually, I was curious if you were doing the same. brb - dinner :) chillywilly: how'd you narrow it down to that? what? ooooh I just know that er,no it bitched at me I'll show you chillywilly: only reason I ask is another person is having issues and I wonder if that's their problem danielb@obfuscation:~/src/cvs/gnue/designer$ client/gfdes libpng warning: Application was compiled with png.h from libpng-1.0.12 libpng warning: Application is running with png.c from libpng-1.2.1 libpng error: Incompatible libpng version in application and library ** ERROR **: No such image: tab_sel.png