guess they might be suprised when some of our 'secret' press releases come out soon :) muhahaha i guess i shouldnt bag on them hehe hopefully they will bring resources and good intentions er? secret press releases? as god knows we need resources :) derek: yes, this is what we all hope nevermind I gotcha now duh damn I need sleep i need sleep, worked too hard today, really bummed i missed miguel fitzix was looking for you for me? i didnt see anything in the log #gnue-discuss ah theres a #gnue-discuss now? its for something different were carrying some dotgnu / gnue related banging around its not a 'permanent' channel was just something for a day or two to hash out some group politics on how we could collaborate with out cluttering this channel :) Action: nickr nog Action: derek is away: sleeping chillywilly (danielb@d82.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" Isomer (perry@210-86-57-156.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: "Client Exiting" reinhard (~rm@62.47.44.94) joined #gnuenterprise. hi reinhard morning we had an interesting visitor earlier was just reading the log yeah it's getting strange after we had ppl from gnucash and bayonne here for quite some time then we had bkuhn now miguel i'm expecting rms to appear tomorrow ;) hehe now that would be a surprise bbl Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away ajmitch (me@p58-max6.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) rm-away (rm@62.47.44.94) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.2) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~me@p30-max5.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. dres_ (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. dres__ (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Connection reset by peer dsmith (~dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" alexey (alex@news.techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" chillywilly (~danielb@d168.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jc codes like a man possessed ;) bye chillywilly (danielb@d168.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.36) joined #gnuenterprise. Morning people jamest_ (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@195.239.204.226) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat: you here? ra3vat: please msg me when you see this dsmith (dsmith@208.40.56.36) left irc: "Client Exiting" nickr (nick@e-172-IP28.empnet.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) nickr (~nick@e-172-IP28.empnet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: yes reinhard: rms general wont touch irc but he does give 'pleasant emails' occassionally :) i.e. rms knows about gnue and knows somewhat of what is going on jamest jamest_ you here? *** it looks as though rsync for cvsweb and lxr (gnue.org) are not working anymore, can we fix that or is it a jade thing? **** alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. back i setup rsync on ash but never switched the cvsweb or lxr over from jade's stuff so it's a jade thing however I may have time this weekend to switch it all over ra3vat: still here? worth mentioning: I have a Mac user that just tried out unix (linux) for the first time he HATES it #1 reason why he hates it stability not the OS itself but the current mix of "office" applicatoins kword seqfaults when saving abiword makes random formatting changes when saving staroffice is bloated and slow and java support prevents him from using specific sites on the web (java is buggy and crashes the browser) dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ah! two jamest's as if one wasn't enough bwahahahaah madlocke (madlocke@p50806E21.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi hey! madlocke! you here? yes sigh, i have a meeting in a few minutes had a little time to look at the code i have time today.... you've got a lot of work done on the layout mgr it seems code changed... lot of bug fixes... gridbaglayout for wxpython works!... rock! couple of issues though just looking for one bug i still have in html layout... ok... i can't see us replacing GParser i have time we can discuss it later as forms and designer both use it heavily for now i only wrote own one because it was easier and i wanted to try some things... and it does lots of stuff for us, typecasting, default values, file structure validation, automatic upgrade of depreciated features er, ok cool i didn't notice any IO system but still thinking of getting rid of this phaseinit... but not now... more important things to do lol phaseinit replaced a single init system it was there in an older version... just wanted to concentrate on layouting that just didn't work for our multipart system cool i was wondering if we could fold the layout manager into the current code base w/ a few changes then see about adding in the html stuff along side our current UI rewrite where to find this rewrite? um in our heads :) ah... ok... ;) it is really dependent upon the html clients needs just getting a saw ;) jcater and I have discussed it somewhat but nothing on paper yet as we wanted to see what you had done dangit just a sec ok... when did you discuss it so i can read it and join the discussion ah jsut the day just a sec it's just been comments in passing typically in a private window we were talking about having a single process on the web server using sessoins/cookies to driver mutliple UIhtml sessions for different users however we didn't go into it very deep as we knew you were working on it ok ahhhhh meeting postponed till 11 ok what do you think? I don't recall what the june code you had did Action: jamest_ has bad memory madlocke: hi first i want finish this html bug, then discuss what you want for the rewrite hi jcater and very important i think is i18n madlocke: i have i18n patches sent in today cool for 0.1.0 inclusion really? cool actually they were sent Dec 4th but I didn't get them I guess ra3vat was nice enough to send me a new copy great dsmith (dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: "Client Exiting" i hope to have them merged in this weekend dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo! wassup? madlocke: on the layout manager in the gfd file i was thinking about keeping the number of entities to a minimum so instead of , we'd have etc,etc hi jcater what to do with special styles for lms? madlocke: what do you mean? lms? lms=layoutmanagers. Action: jamest_ is blanking on what lms stands for? for example: box layout can do layouting horizontal or vertical alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting" ah other layoutmanagers may need other attributes hmmmmm we could either allow optional attributes imho, it critical that we keep the number of tags to a minimum or we could provide some general attribute that takes a string of values as that's helped us grow so far my goal however was for forms to be able to fall back when it hits something it didn't know how to handle for instance when curses and wxpython both worked the curses client didn't know how to do dropdowns since dropdown was an entry style it didn't matter the forms with dropdown still worked on curses and still did input validation you just couldn't pick from a list if we had done as it's own thing then the form would not have displayed at all same would hold true for layout mangers if the UI in question didn't know what to do then it could fall back to something basic like widget [10:45] Last message repeated 3 time(s). so the form may look bad but it would still be able to functoin Action: jamest_ hopes he's making sence to the problem with the dropdown i was thinking of something like a widget hierarchy means that these fall backs can be automated for example you define features that a ui is able to support then you ask some class to return a widget for a tag so it would be transparent so you ask a widget builder... hey give me a dropdown for uiwxpython you will get a dropdown and for curses a normal entry field if the ui does not explicitly say: i can support a tag that tag falls back until a good widget class is found hope you understand my thinkings :) which is basically what we attempt now w/o the classes thoughts. I'm still of a mind set to keep the number of tags low Action: jamest_ hates modern widget sets lot of people like modern widget sets I don't think we are in a position to define a new modern widget set as there are plenty of them not a new one but don't use only old ones madlocke, i will say this... I could foresee that taking on a life of its own and getting out of hand quickly my goal for the gfd was to describe a functionality the more complex the widget set teh harder to support a myriad of UI's but more importantly the most PRODUCTIVE applications i have seen for (business) are old curses terminals on vt100 i.e. like unix a little hard to 'learn' but once you learn VERY efficient to use dneighbo: may be true. but how much curses terminals are you seeing compared to other solutions um lots madlocke: a lot madlocke dont take this wrong i don't but what is the biggest organization you have written software for? my last three application domains were 1 org - 13,000 users siemens was biggest 100+ orgs - avg 400 users per org 100-+ orgs - avg 100 users per org of course i understand that it is very important to have basic all of these pretty much had thier CORE applications as curses base stuff that is working but by denying new things it is difficult to make a step forward and auxillary lesser applicatoins in gui or combo gui/curses now when you start talking software that serves only a fist full of orgs that are minimum users you rarely see gui btw: i am NOT ANTI gui just saying all the bells and whistles of complex widget sets dont == better software I'm not anti-gui either but i don't tell that the software gets better. i just think it attracts more users I agree with jamest_, though, that we are describing a "functionality" in a GFD, not necessarily a "widget layout" what I like now is that I can show a .gfd to a non-programmer and they can "get" it so you want that people are able to create forms without designer easily if i understand correctly um, not exactly damn i have to go that should always be a possibility but I don't think that's the main point this meeting is with my boss i think a primary point of gnue has always been when you start tying to specific layouts/widgets/etc, you can quickly create a UI-specific application jamest_: you know how long it takes? that its more a business analyst tool than a programmer tool read you should have to be a C hacker to use gnue and extend applications s/should/shouldnt hm i was reading about some people asking for trees and other widgets. how are you thinking about this? dneighbo, jcater? not support it, later support it? I think the consensus was those would be custom widgets that we would not support but would provide hooks for those who "insisted" they need them iirc btw: im not opposed to 'extended' widgets so say a tree widget we could have that and support it in the ui's that can support it but we make it a 'use at own risk' and we dont use it for GNUe Apps that are official i.e. i think we are willing to let widgets make it into cvs but we would put that we dont support them so if the original author stops supporting them you are SOL ok. then we need some docs/specs about this i.e. we arent opposed to people making gnue fit their needs but we dont want to drag down the principals of gnue for specific usages i.e. gnue's goal is to be 'all things to all people' ;) the widgets supported at the moment by gnuef define the standard already or is it too much/less? the current thinking is start simple lets get entry/label/etc working WELL and supported on many different UI's and used in applications then lets see what other widgets could be really beneficial and such and look at implementing them i.e. classic lets do a few things really well instead of a lots of things really bad k ok [11:27] Last message repeated 1 time(s). dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise. bbl madlocke (madlocke@p50806E21.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" ra3vat (ds@195.239.204.226) left irc: "Client Exiting" jcater: you around? something like that you have navigator working in designer? or better yet..... can you co current cvs and tar it for me? i cant get cvs at work but i need navigator sure btw I think we should do this weekly (automatically) and post to website yes (with a disclaimer of course) only i would say nightly if i get access on ash again i will look at setting this up you don't have ash access? or if you are up to it you can set it up :) jcater: yes i have access, but i dont have sudo/root so cant do many things btw: its my own fault i tossed the password on accident just wanted to clarify that for the logs :) I'll have that in a sec my internet conn is slow today /msg jcater actually I paid his wife to toss the password but dont tell him that dneighbo: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/gnue-cvs-020118.tar.gz anyone mind if I automate that on ash today??? I'm thinking of having gnue-cvs-.tar.gz and keep the last 5 days worth jcater: please do anything to keep masta away from root :) agree on both the automation and keeping me from root please put in like downloads/nightlies/ or something if you copy the current one there i will release a story on the home page stating that we offer them now and pointing to the official place I'm automating now so give me a few one two three few ok sigh is there any way to stop cvs from asking for password other than ssh certificate? ping um i dont think so grdcvs what is that? reports daemon? i.e. report server? ah, nevermind yip http://www.gnuenterprise.org/snapshots/ cool we should probably put under downloads/snapshots as would like to get to point where you can go to downloads/ well, I used an Apache Alias and get variety of things lemme figure out that ok cool as it's actually in a subdirectory in my home i think downloads/ already exists ok, then I should be able to alias it there http://www.gnuenterprise.org/download/snapshots/ how's that? dneighbo: you might wanna do an index.php or something should be downloads as there is gnuenterprise.org/downloads/ and if possible if the file really exists under that same structure so argh ok 'snapshots' show up in that listing there is an 'option' in apache for dir listings we can turn on that will make it so you can see whole file name as well your wife must be really patient ;) :) its not high priority you can leave as is im happy just to have it done nightly :) ok I forgot downloads was there so I just created a symlink that way it'll show up in /downloads list as an Alias won't right cool jcater r0x0r jcater: can you programmatically manipulate or tie code to navigator ex: im writing a library management system :) i have a menu : circulation with option check in check out well never mind i need to think about this some more, but the question would still be valid.... hmm dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) I could only provide an invalid answer at the moment dres_ (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. actually one i see as interesting is 'sorting' currently we dont have way to sort (other than hardcode in form) and then via triggers but could have a 'sort' menu and based on selection call trigger to resort or is there better way to handle this? Action: dneighbo is thinking definitely type="trigger" location="way to define trigger name" definitely better way to handle right now? Action: jamest_ smacks dneighbo no more features until after next release! :) Action: dneighbo isnt sure why im not saying put it in right now i just always state everytime i go to write something i hit 'walls', so get frustrated and stop :) Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. re so i am asking... is there a way to do it that im not thinking of? dneighbo: I'm talking the sort i.e. how are you doing sorting currently and I'm basically giving you crap at the datasource level as I need field sorting in forms too bbias jamest_ (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat" jcater: i mean i know sorting is 'supported' but i mean 'dynamic' sorting at run time not there yet only way i can think of is make buttons and have them issue triggers I think that'll tie into your lookup box so my question was if we put trigger calls in navigator then you could have Sort -- By something -- by other something in a menu that called the trigger to resort the form if that makes sense not best 'long' term solution but would give us sorts dynamically today and shouldnt break forms as it would be in navigator reinhard: the release thing er re: not reinhard but im just talking out loud i see other uses of being able to call triggers from menus like for launching external processes or such but what trigger would it call? as navigator would create a forms instance but how would calling a trigger before hand help? ?" im thinking i open a form it has data in it then i choose sort->by title and it 'requeries' the open dataset by title ok not sure I see that as part of navigator, though sigh but that "shouldn't" be hard it wouldnt be 'part' of navigator im thinking navigator just calls a trigger and the code in the trigger does the requery/sort i.e. we add generic trigger support to navigator so description="something"/> might be a sample 'navigator' definition if that makes sense? i dont profess to understand navigator internals so maybe its way off base jamest_ (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. but i see value to being able to call triggers from the menu system this would just be using that feature to do sorts Action: dneighbo fears that the silence equates to jcater 'reloading' menus should work like buttons which just call triggers hi guys Action: jamest_ is jumping into conversation w/o reading logs any comments on the HR proposal? guess its been a while jamest_ that is what i am requesting (i think) ;) I half agree derek :) btw - I'm talking about forms with user def menu entries I'm not sure how a trigger in navigator would resort a datasource in forms the std entries on the forms program might provide hooks but I don't see then being triggers navigator supports triggers now? Action: jamest_ is out of touch jamest_: nope well, nope about triggers couldnt you pass it the information like you pass it datasourcename and field so you create trigger sortit(dsName,field) not nope about being out of touch ouch jcater: well im not saying i know the answers at this point i think calling triggers would be nice Action: jamest_ falls back to previous approach......reaches over and smacks derek what is navigator? but making them part of menuing in the 'form frame' will be more critical i think hello? navigator/ GNUe Navigator is a menuing system for GNUe Forms and Reports. It presents a consistent menuing interface (in GUI or Text) based on an XML "process definition." GNUe Navigator uses GNUe Forms or GNUe Reports to run the actual forms and reports, so these corresponding tools must be installed (i.e., to run forms, GNUe Forms must be installed.) sweet its working well? hehe define "well" it works see the article about Linux having 45%-80% Total Cost of Ownership less than Unix on RISC? http://www.vnunet.com/News/1128453 gotta be some RedHat spin on it I think tho ;-) they sponsered the stufy study sponsored Mr_You http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/navigator.png is a navigator i am currently playing with for a small sample library checkout program dneighbo: it's not functional yet, but try gncvs -u web .gpd dneighbo: what theme is that? oh, wait... you use gnome never mind derek: good start I guess ;-) thats all that matters right now anyways Mr_You: it's better than nothing :) yeah it's easier to build on something than to build on nothing but in 10 years I expect GNUe to take out my trash and wash my dishes and pretty little buttons to click on ;-) jcater interesting what are you using as the html viewer? wxhtml? it brings up the front screen but fails on any clicking ( i assume thats what you mean by not functional) :) jamest_ (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) got netsplit. jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) got netsplit. nickr (nick@e-172-IP28.empnet.net) got netsplit. ajmitch (me@p30-max5.dun.ihug.co.nz) got netsplit. reinhard (rm@62.47.45.2) got netsplit. jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201026.flinthills.com) got netsplit. gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) got netsplit. dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) got netsplit. mdean-[zZzZ] (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) got netsplit. 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Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) returned to #gnuenterprise. mdean-[zZzZ] (~mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201026.flinthills.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.2) returned to #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~me@p30-max5.dun.ihug.co.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. nickr (~nick@e-172-IP28.empnet.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. dres_ (~dres@4.18.171.42) returned to #gnuenterprise. jamest_ (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) returned to #gnuenterprise. gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by adams.openprojects.net qty=avg(jcater.donut.consumption.count) donuts=derek.fetchDonuts(jcater.favorites.donutshop, qty) send.gift(dontus, jcater.location) er send.gift(donuts, jcater.location) hehe send.gift raised exception ETOOMANYDONUTS jcater.eat(donuts[:12]) derek.returnDonuts(donuts[12:]) err... jcater.eat(donuts[:12]) freezer.store(donuts[12:]) dsmith (dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) Action: Yurik is cruel.. f*cking rudder simulator, can't be calibrated! arghhh... debian is funny how so? i think i have like 6 versions of python now :) as different packages require different versions :) so i have like 1.5 2 2.1 2.2 er so i guess only 4 not 6 how can you see packages on your system nickr? dpkg --list or soemthing dpkg --list yes dpkg --list |grep python the problem is packages depend on different versions wright:/home/dneighbo/library/pyslcs# py pydoc pygtk-codegen-1.2 python2 python2.2 pydoc2.1 python python2.0 pydoc2.2 python1.5 python2.1 wright:/home/dneighbo/library/pyslcs# py although 1.5 and 2 are probablpy disposable if you're using unstable unless you need them or unless gnucash depends on one of em sam situation as with perl, really deborphan could probably help you find what you can get rid ogf Action: Yurik is annoyed by this rudder joystick and thinks to hach code a little did anybody used Vesta (Configuration Management System by COMPAQ)? nickr i actually had to go GRAB 1.5.2 to run something :) but jcaters kick ass new cvs installer qty=avg(jcater.donut.consumption.count) error: integer overflow told me of all the other 2.x versions jamest_ roflmao well there for a while i had to kill my cron.d job if jcater.gnue.commit.count < 10: bayonne.dial(911) though w/ his designer exploits of late maybe i should reinstitute it dneighbo:I'm running 2.1 only debian systems just fine me too :) welll arent you cool i made mistake of getting 2.2 out of box then wx installed 2.1 (my default) some other package installed 2.0 (i dont recall which one) and then i just got 1.5.2 for other purposes Action: Yurik is hacking on specification reinhard (rm@62.47.45.2) left irc: "There's always one more imbecile than you expect" yes, yes we are cool :) rofl I just love reinhards messages Action: Yurik -> smoke Action: Yurik is back gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) got netsplit. jamest_ (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) got netsplit. jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) got netsplit. jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201026.flinthills.com) got netsplit. nickr (nick@e-172-IP28.empnet.net) got netsplit. ajmitch (me@p30-max5.dun.ihug.co.nz) got netsplit. dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) got netsplit. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) got netsplit. mdean-[zZzZ] (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) got netsplit. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) got netsplit. Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) gnuebot (eggdrop@mail.libertydistribution.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@mankind.boredom.org) returned to #gnuenterprise. mdean-[zZzZ] (~mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201026.flinthills.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~me@p30-max5.dun.ihug.co.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. nickr (~nick@e-172-IP28.empnet.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. dres_ (~dres@4.18.171.42) returned to #gnuenterprise. jamest_ (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) returned to #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by adams.openprojects.net chillywilly (~danielb@d15.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest_ (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat" Mr_You if you wanted to look at navigator ~/bin/gncvs http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/library/library.gpd subsitute ~/bin/gncvs w/ a binary for navigator (from cvs) and voila you should get something jcater: pretty cool that those run remotely :) off to pick up cdrom drive, drugs for wife and then out to dinner, wont make it back till pretty late i imagine... dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) left irc: "[BX] Time wasted: 7 millenia 5 centuries 3 decades 6 years 3 months" madlocke (madlocke@p50806A58.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hey psu, madlocke hey ajmitch hi aj jamest,jcater: you should get mail soon... :) Kernel Cousins #12 has gone to Zack expect to see it up sometime over the weekend cool you are doing great work with this! thx Action: ajmitch doesn't think he's read 9, 10, 11 yet ;) aj - I haven't quoted you for a while so probably no need ;-) madlocke - thanks for the suggestion re topics i still need to keep up with what's happening ;) It turned out that Zack had been having similar thoughts and we got something in place fairly quickly http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/topics.html This works well for something like GNUe which is a significant number of sub-projects in one Quite how Zack's going to apply it to the main Kernel Traffic summaries I have no idea - I would expect topics to be all over the place cool Zack's been doing the main Kernel Traffic now for three years Got slashdotted this week hey i was quoted in #10, no fair :) wow Action: ajmitch wonders whether he should just help with GNUe packaging jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" i should talk to jbailey when i see him next :) we now have a debian maintainer and possibly an rpm maintainer via Ximian AFAIK who's the debian maintainer? i see someone's willing to do GEAS, what about other GNUe software? I have gnue-* in my package list nick@piggy:~$ apt-cache search gnue gnue-common - The shared library for many items of the GNU Enterprise Framework gnue-designer - A Rapid Application Development tool for GNU Enterprise. gnue-forms - An XML-based forms painter I think he was "persuaded" to do the lot heh cool saves me from having to do work then ;) hrm, it has a bug it doesn't depend on wxpython You could always do some docs ;-) nickr - I thought the python version did i'm currently doing some dotgnu packages & will do a dcl one, anyway which is all we really have at moment psu: the package doesn't Depend on it like it should should be "Recommended" instead? designer requires it and it doesn't Depend: like it should oops hrm, and pyxml "I'd raise a bug against the package if I were you" heard someone say that last week sounded cool might even have been you Yea, I'll do it ;-) Yes I suggest that people file bugs all the tim e: reported bugs tend to get fixed quicker than unreported ones ;-) yea Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. re hi ajmitch hi Action: chillywilly fears the ximian wrath chillywilly hi kay, i just submitted like 4 bugs. :) howdy Yurik Action: Yurik is sleepy (hasn't sleep for 2 days) but still is working :-) hey wxgtk is borked in sid you can't even run designer there was a bug filed by a someone in #debian who I was talking to about i it Yurik: damn 24h power supply ;) oops +0000 = time for bed never isn't it the weekend? party all night Action: Yurik likes WEs :-) Action: chillywilly couls use a beer psu: where are you from? Action: psu has to be up in 4 hours psu: gah, why? madlocke - UK, so +0000 UTC early train to London to see mother psu: ah... just was asking because CEST for me... germany... Action: Yurik is +02 it's her birthday psu: not much people near my time zone :) Action: chillywilly is -4 afaik or is it -5 +1 bah,who cares EST is -5 time zones suck Action: chillywilly is CST, along with jcater and jamest Action: Yurik doesn't remember the exact number, but remembers that his TZ is EET :-) set your clocks to UTC like real hackers ;-) psu: erm.. should bit gmt+1 with daylight savings chillywilly: theres a depends problem, and then theres a build problem yup chillywilly: I filed bugs for all of em, shoulda checked first though but I love filing bugs btw, dudes, did anybody used BitKeeper? madlocke - daylight saving is Apr/May to Sep/Oct for us yep Used to confuse me like crazy when i used to listen to BBC World Service they always do time in GMT/UTC heh so it was right half the year, wrong half the year for me +1300 here +1300 is logically impossible logically, yes ;) s/logically/theoretically grin... or you might call it +13 good thing i'm not in NZ-CHAT timezone ;) anyway, really must go to bed now psu good night psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. ping Yurik: bitkeeper has this ugly "pricing" section ;) jamest: pong madlocke I know, but they do provide "free" version madlocke and I can't understand where limitations are madlocke and what are the license terms exactly means :-) Action: madlocke today figured out how expensive installshield license is :(( madlocke: inno what's "inno"? the problem is I don't want use CVS.. free windows installer pretty nice ah thx... have to look for it we use it to make win exe of forms/designer so you can find sample config's in our cvs hey, great Action: Yurik is listening Rammstein Yurik: very funny... a lot of people in russia/ukraine seem to like rammstein... lot of people there asked me what the texts mean :) chillywilly (danielb@d15.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) madlocke I don't like Rammstein really, only few songs and only in special (bad) mood Yurik: means you are in special bad mood at the moment? madlocke especially Engel, Du Hast, Buck Dich (?).. madlocke well, yes bueck dich ;) better you don't understand what it means ;) what does it means, I really interested :-) and too lazy to go to the translate.ru or altavista :-) madlocke (madlocke@p50806A58.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" madlocke (madlocke@p50806A58.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ... hm was the wrong [x] button :) madlocke so what does Du Hast and Beck Dich means? :-) s/Beck/Bueck/ Action: Yurik has Bueck Dich video :-) du hast is difficult to translate because it is playing with words... can mean: you hate or you have madlocke thanks :-) and what about bueck dich? :) bueck dich ... erm... let me look for the full text before i translate this ;) hehe btw, is Mutter = Mother? yes it is Nick change: mdean-[zZzZ] -> mdean Action: Yurik studied deutch for ~ half-year in school (4th or 5th class) you could say bueck dich to a b*tch if you are willing to insert something ... but really a bit off topic :) madlocke hehe jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. yo jcater 'sup my kiwi friend at the moment, not much, just uploaded some packages uni started back? jcater! Yurik: trying to learn russian at the moment ;) mdean!! jcater!!! 'sup my kansas city friend? madlocke russian? it is my native language uni does not start til late feb ;) ajmitch: wow finally getting some snow :) mdean: ack! that means we will soon it's summer here Yurik: i know as i was seeing your domain is .ua ajmitch: oh, yeah... Action: jcater is horrible w/geography madlocke yep. I speak both in Russian and Ukranian madlocke Here is a lot of people having russian as native madlocke Ukranian is my second native, since I speak ukranian fluently jcater: going to send in my FSF GNUe paperwork tomorrow :) how much different is ukranian? mdean: rock! mwahahaha madlocke it is much closer to Polish in some issues, somewhere to Russian, but russians can understand ukranians and vice versa (well, in common lexicon) madlocke and ukranians usually can understand poles and vice versa :-)) but poles can't russians and vice versa as is was figuring out ;) madlocke well, something like this :) jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "I hope the drive home today is drier and warmer" Action: Yurik started Du Hast video jcater (~jason@24.92.70.201) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: Yurik started Rammstein - Sonne video grin... this rammstein guy :) finished ;)) Du Riechst So Gut :-) the something is so good? derek what is so good? Yurik: riechst i assumed that me the riechst is so good but i dont knmow what riechst is ;) derek: it means: you smell so good I don't know too madlocke hehe :-) btw: i like rammenstein a lot but i have no clue of what they are saying :) derek: not every song is so nice ;) derek I listen Rammstein on a bad mood only ;-) Action: Yurik feels himself rotten but quite ironic i listen to rammstein to put me in a good mood :) good programming muzak (du hast is playing) Action: derek grabbed chord charts for du hast a bit different of the pop bands that germany is pushing ;) and played the riff once or twice on guitar, but really that song doesnt have 'consistent' guitar riff derek do you play guitar? like no angels i.e. don't know if you've heard about them Yurik: if you use the term 'play' VERY loosely then yes i play the guitar im just learning, but have good teachers :) Action: Yurik hasn't learnt playing guitar, only flute and piano, for 5 years madlocke if you have german mp3's of groups similar to rammenstein please let me know i would love to hear some of it Action: madlocke tried to learn to play the guitar too... without teacher... Action: madlocke played the piano for about 7 years... derek: no, but could get some.... madlocke and me too ;) to extend my library of such kind of music... I really have a bad habit to mope Action: madlocke has the long hair you need for playing the guitar ;) Action: Yurik cut long hairs off few years ago Action: derek is just looking for stuff other than the stuff i hear all the time now :) there is a interesting song from knorkator... called (translated) show me the way down... text is about going down... listening to the text you realize that the guy is digging through earth... Action: derek is away: dinner & movie bbs to test and torture muhahahaha then he sees light and a kangoroo ;) madlocke heh :) it should be australia which is on the other side ;) the most interesting thing that I have stopped listening hard music years ago and in a good mood listens another music... more pretty ;) the music i am listening depends very much on my mood too of course. kinda art-rock... blues rock-operas (I like them very much!) and so on.. unfortunately i don't have any good blues... away for real now :) bbl cu derek cu Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: Remote closed the connection Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: Yurik is listening WaterFront Action: ajmitch is listening to Thief don't know waterfront... what does this tell me about your mood? ;) madlocke small unknown norwegian group. just a pause between rammstein sonnes ;) Action: Yurik becomes feels himself more ironic than rotten. for certain amount of time :) Action: Yurik transforms again. ironic-rotten-melanholic.. brrhh. this transformatios... they're too fast ;) Isomer (~perry@210-86-58-26.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. hey Isomer mornin' Nick change: mdean -> mdean-[moovee] colonel (arun@61.1.229.172) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: Yurik is listening Aznavour Action: Yurik started to listen the "misc" collection... Doors here :) Alabama song Frank Sinatra - Jingle Bells. god, it is cool to make the playlist unsorted :-) weird... :) hehe well, back to Rammstein, this list seems to be sentimental for me now Action: Yurik is taking shuff (medicated n99, snuff) Action: Yurik prepares cola with coffee cu vigor :-) madlocke (madlocke@p50806A58.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" great swill or mash? :) colonel (arun@61.1.229.172) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Action: Yurik -> smoke Action: Yurik is back Action: Yurik got few hallucination... well, I'm really to sleepy.. jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317871.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317871.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" chillywilly (~danielb@d35.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly sup hey Action: Yurik is drinking coffee and is trying not to sleep, on principle. chillywilly: 'sup, dawg?!? just watched the bucks break out a can on the magic anderman (~anderman@rdu88-244-127.nc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. anderman (~anderman@rdu88-244-127.nc.rr.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). Action: jcater needs a donut +- --+ +--- +------ blah blah, need to go snowboarding "blah blah" heh is that NC for "Hello"? nah that would be werchadoin' North Cackalack "blah blah" oh, I know howdy is hello that's the mating call of a 25 yr married couple hehe man I need a shower yes, I can smell you from here ;P chillywilly: I think that's the dead trout hehe time to rotate aaaaaaah holy shit aol is staging to buy red hat http://www.washtech.com/news/media/14759-1.htmlb makes sense tw wants them i wonder if it'd go thru as m$ is creeping into media space so only makes sense aol/tw wants to creep into software space already they own aol (msn competition) aim (msn messenger competition) hmm this good or bad? netscape (internet explorer competition) jcater: aol is just as evil as ms imho aol tw is a worse monopoly than m$ however in DIFFERENT ways i.e. i think they would probably be PRO keeping software open source to a degree (look at netscape) brb jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201026.flinthills.com) left irc: "[x]chat" i mean redhat is linux (which is gpl) so there are limits however, i could see them doing things to 'lock microsoft out' :) who knows if they 'understand' that software is a tool and not a 'product' and they find ways to channel content instead it might not be 'that evil' jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201026.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. though admittedly its a wash i see it as pro: linux would have as much money as microsoft for once (between ibm, hp and aol throwing money at it) con: aol is as bad or worse than m$ when it comes to business practices I imagine it would be similar to how Netscape Navigator is developed.. but i use debian not red hat so dont know how worried to be :) Mr_You: i agree I'll take a guess.. if RedHat gets bought.. it will continue running similar.. will just be in TWs back pocket with huge potential tho RedHat will now have to answer to all of TWs quams which might not be bad yeah the biz practices is the worse con :-(( um as a publisher Action: jcater works in the Magazine industry TW does not allow competing products to advertise in its magazines typically to date, M$ Windows is not a competing product The TW enterprise includes a LOT of magazines Fortune People Time ad nauseum (Money, Real Simple, ...) GPL lives off GrassRoots so it will always exist and possibly prevail ;-) :) its already beginning to prevail around the world in gov't and other orgs I can see M$ becoming more of a niche comparative to Apple who knows ;-) crap this is a good article too http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23736.html (unrelated to derek's link) we need a better installer yes, we do for the brave http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jamest/pre-release/ nevermind common is broken s/broken/incomplete ;) night nite all nite jcater (jason@24.92.70.201) left irc: "Client Exiting" NOTE: forms, designer, common 0.1.1 releases in http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jamest/pre-release/ they _should_ work fine nite jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201026.flinthills.com) left irc: "[x]chat" --- Sat Jan 19 2002