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<DiegoWS> hi
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<psu> hi all/any
<psu> just to let you know
<psu> that my wife's father passed away last night
<psu> so 
<psu> a. I am unlikely to be as visible for the next few weeks
<psu> but have not disappeared
<psu> b. I know several of you are Christians too 
<psu> and your prayers at this time 
<psu> for George Roberts and his family
<psu> would be much appreciated 
<psu> bbl
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<Yurik> re
<derek> nickr chillywilly ... debian users.....
<derek> can anyone else apt-get update
<derek> right now
<derek> im getting some seriously whack results
<derek> but generally it just gets two or three locations and aborts
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<derek> i think my debian install has caught a bad case of windows
<derek> was working fine
<derek> try to do apt-get update
<derek> and it just wont work
<derek> apt even segfaulted once or twice
<derek> always choked on non-us
<derek> so i was gonna commment it out
<derek> so i do emaces /etc/apt/sources.list
<derek> and it emacs segfaults
<derek> that has NEVER happened
<derek> so im like wtf.....
<derek> so i restart X
<derek> and now it says cant find sawfish
<derek> so i restart X and log in as wife
<derek> and it gets to loading gnome and screen just goes black and hangs
<derek> now i get kernel panic: in interrupt handler - not synching
<derek> sigh figure after i put all my financials on this machine 
<derek> sigh
<derek> i want to cry
<derek> bblfh
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<Yurik> re
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<Yurik> re
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<ajmitch> uh oh
Action: derek is in search of debian 'masters'
<derek> to help me fix kernel panicking hell
<ajmitch> oh?
<ajmitch> that not good
<ajmitch> where/when's it panicking?
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<derek> someone that knows linux and hardware please help
<derek> linux is kickign my ass
<dsmith> derek: whats up? (or down)
<ajmitch> well what is it doing? 'kicking my ass' is not terribly descriptive
<derek> kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 03:03
<derek> debian freaked on me 
<ajmitch> what's the root fs partition?
<dsmith> is that ext2 or somthing more exotic
<derek> and was segfaulting all the programs
<derek> reboot ended up giving me hard kernel panic
<derek> i removed some ram thinking i might have bad ram
<derek> it changed the panic :)
<ajmitch> you checked partition tables, etc?
<derek> but i still get the panic
<derek> ext2
<derek> im so desperate im in #debian lookign for help
<derek> this is NOT how i wanted to spend my sunday
<derek> fsck... i swear anytime i have productive time its fscking w/ bad hardware
<derek> how do i 
<derek> <devvil> derek:  boot with root=/dev/xxx
<ajmitch> ouch, you must be desperate to ask in #debian
<derek> ajmitch: yes very desperate
<ajmitch> what partition is the root fs on?
<derek> ajmitch: beats fsck ouit of me
<derek> probaly a
<dsmith> Can you boot a cd or floppy and then mount your hd by hand?
<ajmitch> 3:03 is the kernel looking for the rootfs on /dev/hda3
<derek> is there a way to see my devices?
<derek> i tried hda1 w/o success
<derek> i have only one hard drive
<derek> it is dual boot
<ajmitch> hda1 would probably be windows
<derek> btw: i think 3 was the right boot drive
<dsmith> and hda2 swap
<ajmitch> to see your partition table, you'd need to boot off a floppy or cdrom, and run fdisk
<ajmitch> ok
<derek> ok tried 1 2 and 3
<derek> any other ideas
<dsmith> You need to boot off rescue media to have a working system so you can inspect things.
<dsmith> Floppy or cd
<dsmith> Well, I'll be back in about .5 hour.  Gotta take my son over a friends house for a sleepover.
<derek> sigh i hope i can find the floppy
<ajmitch> i should be around for a little while i hope
<derek> do i use rescue or root/
<ajmitch> rescue
<derek> ok rescue comes up with
<derek> boot:
<derek> now what?
<derek> as i dont want to 'reinstall'
<ajmitch> hit tab
<derek> resuce root=/dev/fd0
<derek> maybe?
<ajmitch> i guess it'll have a 'linux' entry
<derek> linux starts install
<ajmitch> just hit enter then
<derek> this better not reinstall :)
<ajmitch> when you hit enter?
<ajmitch> so what's going down?
<derek> sorry had to go to the crapper :)
<derek> ok
<derek> parition chec:
<derek>   hda: hda1 hda2 hda3
<derek> VFS: Insert root floppy disk to be loaded into RAM disk and press ENTER
<derek> are last lines
<derek> putting in root.bin
<derek> and getting ready to hit enter
<ajmitch> ok
<derek> ok hit enter and its chugging away
<derek> once this comes up what shoudl i do?
<derek> yikes
<ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> if it does start the install, you can stop it :)
<derek> it gives me an install
<derek> i dont think i want this :)
<derek> help.....
<ajmitch> what?
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> you on a gnu/linux box right now?
<ajmitch> well?
<derek> i put rescue disk back in
<derek> and then at boot:
<derek> i did rescue root=/dev/hda3
<derek> and am letting it go
<derek> ok on reboot got through /dev/hda3 check
<derek> but then kernel panicked at
<derek> Calculating module dependencies... Kernel panic: VFS: LRU block list corrupted
<ajmitch> ouch
<ajmitch> something is wrong with that filesystem i'm sure
<ajmitch> can you write bootdisks from the system you're currently on?
<derek> um is root.bin
<derek> a boot disk?
<derek> ajmitch.... how do i make a boot disk
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<derek> ajmitch.... how do i make a boot disk
<derek> also how is a boot disk diff from rescue disk?
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<ajmitch> you can usually make boot disks like a parted disk or tomsrtbt using dd
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<derek> sigh
<derek> i guess im fscked
<ajmitch> no
<derek> ajmitch thats not helpful enough info to do me good
<derek> and i have wasted 3 hours now on this
<ajmitch> so you want me to step you thru this each step at a time?
<derek> and i only have 20 hours worth of work on the machine
<derek> yes
<ajmitch> hrmm
<derek> also explain how this is 'different' than the rescue disk
<ajmitch> what machines do you have access to at the moment
<derek> ie. if the rescue disk dont work why would a 'boot' disk work
<derek> i have a redhat 6.2 machine
<ajmitch> a rescue disk is just another boot disk with some utitlies on it
<derek> but dont know i can get the floppy to work
<derek> its ONLY machine ihave with a floppy
<derek> i have a debian box on this network as well but no floppy in it
<ajmitch> ok, so the machine you're trying to fix is only one with floppy?
<derek> possibly
<derek> let me play some
<derek> easiest way to find out is tell me what to do :)
<ajmitch> argh
<ajmitch> since it would be good if you could download a rescue/boot floppy image off the net, write it to disk, and then use that to boot up :)
<derek> ok
<derek> tell me the steps
<derek> worse case i have to reboot my laptop to get access to a floppy
<ajmitch> http://www.toms.net/rb/download.html
<derek> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/fd0,
<derek>        or too many mounted file systems
<derek> i get that on all floppy drives i try
<derek> how do i download it?
<derek> i clieck to download it takes me to a home page
<derek> i click download on the home page it takes me back to wehre i started
<derek> add-ons
<derek> 0
<derek> 05/30/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> directory
<derek> download.html
<derek> 1272
<derek> 06/21/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> favicon.ico
<derek> 3190
<derek> 05/26/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> license.html
<derek> 100640
<derek> 06/06/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> morehelp.html
<derek> 527
<derek> 05/26/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> rblsarch.html
<derek> 1377
<derek> 05/26/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> tomsrtbt-1.7.361.ElTorito.288.img.bz2
<derek> 2646086
<derek> 06/06/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> tomsrtbt-1.7.361.dos.zip
<ajmitch> well gee, there are .zip and .tar.gz files there
<derek> 2170498
<derek> 06/06/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> tomsrtbt-1.7.361.lsm
<ajmitch> suppose it might be one of them?
<derek> 1119
<derek> 06/06/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<mdean> why not just boot the rescue cd without setting the root filesystem?  then fsck the problem partition
<derek> tomsrtbt-1.7.361.tar.gz
<derek> 1782218
<derek> 06/06/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> tomsrtbt.FAQ
<derek> 12682
<derek> 06/06/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> tomsrtbt.gif
<ajmitch> ah, hi mdean
<derek> 1297
<derek> 05/26/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> tomsrtbt.png
<derek> 1547
<derek> 05/26/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> tomsrtbt_241_345.gif
<mdean> howdy :) - I'm "working" on "work" stuff
<derek> 5562
<derek> 05/26/01 12:00:00 am
<derek> file
<derek> tomsrtbt_241_345.png
<derek> what file do i want
<derek> mdean i asked if that was possible
<derek> and no one would answer me :)
<derek> i.e. "how come i cant just use the rescue disk" :)
<ajmitch> tomsrtbt-1.7.361.tar.gz
<mdean> it's what I normally do
<derek> so how do i do it using the rescue disk?
<mdean> I hate floppy disks ;-)
<ajmitch> mdean: depends on what's on the rescue disk
<derek> if it requires floppy + cd im screwed
<mdean> shouldn't the debian install disk be sufficient?
<ajmitch> mdean: if the rescue disk has no root fs, then you can't run fsck ;)
<derek> as the cd in that machine is toast now
<derek> i have a new one, but havent installed it yet (still in back seat of car)
<ajmitch> mdean: btw, i have a nicely broken dcl package put together (after changing the scripts to accomodate changes in filenames, locations)
<derek> ajmitch: i have both .zip and tar.gz
<mdean> hehe - I got deb on my laptop, but need to get the dhcp going - it's b0rked right now
<derek> mdean: if you have a way to do this w/ just rescue disk please let me know
<derek> ajmitch: what do i do with the tar.gz file?
<ajmitch> derek: the .zip is for installation from dos
<ajmitch> derek: what do you normally do with tar.gz files? unpack it!
<derek> ok un packed
<ajmitch> http://www.toms.net/rb/tomsrtbt.FAQ
<derek> sigh
<derek> another rtfm person
<ajmitch> further install instructions are in there
<derek> btw: i hate that
<ajmitch> sorry, i hate answering every obvious question
<derek> btw: ajmitch it wouldnt have hurt to say go to directory you just untarred and run
<derek> ./install.s
<ajmitch> you were asking what to do with a tar.gz
<derek> i assume once this disk is built i simply put in dead machine
<ajmitch> yes
<derek> and reboot it
<derek> ajmitch: fwiw: oven times on this kind of stuff you dont untar/zip it
<derek> tahts why i asked
<ajmitch> it's rare for a boot disk, since it need a boot sector & fs first on the disk
<mdean> derek: looking at the potato(e) cd, I started the installer, switched to virtual console 2, and you should have access to e2fsck and fdisk from the /sbin dir
<derek> i dont have a 'cd'
Action: ajmitch hasn't used the debian cd for months
<derek> but if i put in rescue
<derek> then it goes to bin
<derek> er root.bin
<derek> then when at installer go to different console
<derek> and i have fsck?
<ajmitch> well, a couple of months actually :)
<ajmitch> i guess you might
<mdean> that's the way it is on the cd
Action: derek is trying
<mdean> is that the box you need to replace your drive on?
<ajmitch> the disks should be the same as cd
<derek> mdean fi works you out smarted 381 folks in #debian
<derek> as i asked the question at least 15 times
<derek> why do i need to make disks when i have two bootable disks in front of me
<derek> ajmitch: im still making the boot disk just in case
<mdean> this is exactly why people need to cut their teeth on slackware ;-)
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> mdean: i started off with mandrake, and i worked out fine ;)
<derek> mdean: i tend to disagree :)
<derek> i think in general people shouldnt really have to know this crap :)
<derek> i.e. it shouldnt be mandatory to programming computers
<ajmitch> i've done this sort of stuff a few times
Action: derek has serious allergy to hardware and low level kernel crap
<mdean> I agree, but also disagree - this is something I learned to do from slackware (using install CD to get to system and help it along)
<ajmitch> i have a directory with a few boot disk images, and a few bootable cds lying about ;)
<derek> i just want to be 'productive' writing software and diong what i need to do :)
<ajmitch> i do recall using the potato cd one time
<derek> BUT someone out there needs to know this stuff :)
<derek> and that type of person shoudl cut teeth on slackware :)
<ajmitch> most of the time i've found the mandrake rescue image on the cd to be quite good
<ajmitch> ok, so i actually started on a zipslack derivative ;)
<mdean> ja - I've also used slackware disks to rescue redhat machines
<mdean> but that's in the past
<derek> ok im there
<derek> fsck /dev/hda3
<derek> its doing its thang
Action: derek is seriously crossing fingers
Action: ajmitch starts praying
<derek> ok
<derek> fsck gets a segfault
<derek> how you like them apples
<mdean> ow
<ajmitch> now that's something not good
<mdean> is this the machine you need to replace the cdrom on?
<derek> yes
<derek> im thinking the mother board is toastified
<mdean> ja
Action: derek is ready to put an ass whooping on it
<mdean> that's what I'm starting to think
<mdean> how did you determine the cdrom is bad?
<derek> um in middle of a burn it failed
<derek> i rebooted and it wouldnt access it
<derek> wouldnt spit out disk
<derek> woudl hang windows if i tried to access it
<derek> i thought DUMB windows
<derek> so booted into debian to get my disk 'back'
<mdean> did you try it in another box to be sure?
<derek> and debian said 'f you mutha' that disk be jacked
<derek> i figured (stoopid me) that if both windows and debian were rejecting it that it wasnt 'software'
<derek> and since it had worked fine on both before then
<derek> that it had just had its 'day'
<mdean> I think something else may have kicked the bucket
<derek> at that point i hadnt saw other problems in that made me suspect that it was board
<derek> i thought 'maybe' the cable
<derek> but that cable was for harddrive and connections were good so went and popped a new cd
<derek> if i can get this fixed and it aint the cd though :)
<derek> i can return that other drive :)
<derek> mdean: i thought it might be bad ram, but i pulled ram out of it and such and i think its just on its last leg
<derek> though what is weird
<derek> is i can boot the windows fine right
<derek> which makes me think its seeing that hard disk ok
<mdean> I wouldn't put much faith in windows in this case...
<derek> me either :)
<derek> it will run regardless of how jacked the environment is :)
Action: derek guesses it wouldnt run for long
<mdean> ja
<derek> in fact it didnt, thats what prompted me booting into linux in first place
<derek> was it shit out on wife other day
<mdean> what is the cpu in it?
<derek> k6 300 or k6 350 (i cant quite recall)
<mdean> ah
<mdean> those don't multitask very well ;-)
<mdean> becomes real evident in BeOS
Action: ajmitch has a k6-2 400 :)
<mdean> ajmitch: so does my daughter (my old one)
<derek> i wouldnt mind 'upgrading'
<derek> but if thats not the problem i hate to spend the money right now
<mdean> do you have another box you can build up?
<mdean> how big is the hdd btw?
<mdean> even if you have another desktop you can put the hd into and retrieve your data would be great
<derek> hdd is only like 3 or 4gig i think
<derek> mdean : hmmm thats true
<mdean> not that I've done this before ;-)
<derek> i just put linux on this a while back
<derek> nothing on windows i can think of that i 'need'
<derek> i did do about 20 hours of bills in gnucash
<derek> and thats all i need off linux
<derek> i do all email and work currently on my laptop
<derek> and i rsync my laptop to my 'server' w/ big drive regularly
<mdean> ja - I usually just snag the home directories and go from there
<derek> trying different ram again
<derek> and seeing if i will have better luck
<mdean> 100% different?
<derek> no
<derek> hmm no segfault now
<derek> fsck -c -v /dev/hda3
<derek> e2fsck 1.18, 11-Nov-1999 for EXT2 FS 0.5b, 95/08/09
<derek> Killed
<derek> Pass 1: Checking inodes, blocks, and sizes
<derek> Killed
<derek> what does that mean?
<mdean> dunno - looks like it got the -9 somehow
<mdean> all in all, this is really flaky
<derek> hmmm i didnt -9 it
<mdean> I didn't think *you* did ;-)
<mdean> did you try a normal boot into linux?
<ajmitch> flaky? it's b0rken :)
<derek> mdean trying that now
<derek> ah crap stoopid me
<derek> there was easy answer....
<ajmitch> how so?
Action: derek pulls that 25lb sledge out of the tool box
<ajmitch> uh oh
<derek> smack
Action: mdean DCCs derek some patience...
<derek> crash
<derek> bang
<derek> well now there is no question
<derek> the motherboard is br0ked
<derek> in about 50 pieces on my floor :)O
<mdean> heh
<derek> ok new pain
<mdean> time for that athlon MP system ;-)
<ajmitch> heh
Action: ajmitch wants!
<derek> RAMDISK: Laoding 3496 blocks [1 disk] into ram disk... <0>Kernel panic: out of memory and no killable processes
<derek> BUT that explans the killed
<derek> :)
<derek> when fsck ran out of memory it killed itself :)
<derek> i think the machine isnt seeing the memory right
<mdean> and how much ram is allegedly in there?
<derek> which validates the dorked mb theory
<derek> um 128mb stick
<derek> plust 12mb stick
<mdean> hmmmm - don't you need 256MB for fsck? ;-)
<derek> nope
<derek> thats ms_fsck
<mdean> ha!
<mdean> well, in this case I'd stop dorking around with the hard drive in that box :)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> mdean: you willing to donate some hardware over this way? ;)
<mdean> are you needy?
<ajmitch> yeah ;)
<ajmitch> my main box is a k6-2, you know 
<ajmitch> i'll probably try & upgrade in the next month or so
<mdean> athlon?
<ajmitch> probably
<ajmitch> currently i have 386mb ram, 21gb hard drive in this box
<mdean> sweet - I'm on a 1.33GHz 
<ajmitch> 384 i mean
<ajmitch> i think the DCL package needs quite a bit of work before it's worthy of being uploaded to debian ;)
<ajmitch> got to handle upgrades from earlier dcl packages
<mdean> it will be nice to have it maintained again, tho :)
<derek> ok have 'new line up in'
<derek> and rerunning fsck
<derek> it made it to pass2
<derek> woooo hoooo
<derek> btw: if all this works
<derek> im get some rsyncing love
<ajmitch> hehe
<derek> and try to switch cd in another box to see if it works
<ajmitch> i really have to start doing that once i get some space
<derek> if it does then i am gonna assum the mb of that box is hosed
<derek> if not
<ajmitch> my / partition was down to 25mb free earlier today
<derek> then i will assume i had an over heat
<derek> ok fsck finshed ok
<derek> woo hoo
<derek> try to boot normal now
<ajmitch> it's back up to 410mb free after apt-move
<mdean> ajmitch: just burn your pr0n collection onto CD - you don't need it on the hd ;-)
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<Yurik> re
<ajmitch> mdean: you see, i don't actually have a pr0n collection :)
<mdean> hey Yurik
<Yurik> mdean hi
<mdean> ajmitch: did you just rm -rf it?
<ajmitch> mdean: have never had one
Action: derek creams himself
<ajmitch> besides, if i did, it'd go on one of the other partitions
<derek> im back in
<derek> w/ normal bootup
<ajmitch> excellent
<ajmitch> so what was the actual problem?
<derek> ajmitch well memory is definitely 'finicky'
<derek> finally got right combo so i could do that fsck
<ajmitch> that not good
<derek> whether its what CAUSED the original problem
<derek> or whether the mb did im not sure
<derek> i think if i move that cdrom to another box and its still good
<derek> then its probably definitely a mb issue
Action: ajmitch needs to get out & shoot tomorrow
<derek> if the cdrom is bad on antoher box
<derek> then i have to question the memory or the cpu(heat)
<ajmitch> i had an issue with cpu overheating - the fan wasn't turning ;)
<derek> well im watching the fan turn
<ajmitch> it owuld lock up randomly every coupl of weeks or so
<derek> BUT i noticed this bastard has default screen saver as random
<derek> and i saw it runnig matrix the other night
<derek> and that is processor intensive
<derek> and on this little k6 probably fried it up good
<ajmitch> the box i had overheating doesn't usually run X
<ajmitch> (k6-233)
<derek> as on my pIII laptop it almost makes my box SMOKE :)
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<Yurik_> re
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<dneighbo_> anyone using debian here
<dneighbo_> having' this issue on update
<dneighbo_> Hit http://non-us.debian.org unstable/non-US/non-free Release
<dneighbo_> 99% [1 Packages gzip 0] [Waiting for file]
<dneighbo_> gzip: stdin: invalid compressed data--crc error
<dneighbo_> gzip: stdin: invalid compressed data--length error
<dneighbo_> Err http://security.debian.org stable/updates/main Packages
<dneighbo_>   Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
<dneighbo_> Get:2 http://http.us.debian.org unstable/main Packages [1672kB]
<ajmitch> nope, i don't have security.d.o in my sources.list
<ajmitch> afaik, it's not needed for unstable
<dneighbo_> otay
<chillywilly> :'(
<chillywilly> Packers got the shit kicked out of them
<chillywilly> remove those non-free sectoions dneighbo_ ;P
<chillywilly> sections
Action: chillywilly removes his packers desktop backgroud
<chillywilly> too depressinig
<Yurik_> chillywilly re
<ajmitch> heh, i've just got a boring photo for my desktop background
Action: chillywilly sets the floating gnu with the debian swirl as his background
<chillywilly> btw, security.debian.org is not needed for unstable
<ajmitch> the photo i use is a pic of me & some friends
<chillywilly> oops, ajmitch already said that
<chillywilly> my bad
<chillywilly> brb
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<mdean> ajmitch: just tagged dcl-20020120-stable in dclgw 
<ajmitch> alrighty
Action: mdean notices the demo code is almost 1 year old :-O
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<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> mdean: jbailey has been very kind & offered to answer any packaging questions i have ;)
<mdean> cool :)
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<jbailey> =)
Action: mdean crosses fingers for upgrade...
<ajmitch> hehe
<mdean> incredible!  it still works!
<ajmitch> excellent!
<mdean> hehe - I love some of the things people put in there
<mdean> Responsible: sa
<mdean> Priority: High
<mdean> Type: Critical
<mdean> Product (Version): Double Choco Latte (current)
<mdean> ~Time: 0:00:00 Account: ABC Corporation (tm)
<mdean> Contact: Bill Gates
<mdean> Contact Phone: 555 254 3564
<mdean> Contact E-Mail:
<mdean> Opened By: manager on 02/13/2001 13:21:39
<mdean> Status: Open on 02/13/2001 13:12:38
<mdean> Last Action On: Summary: Port it to windows NOW Issue: I am so sick of having the responsibilty of all the software in the world!!!!
<ajmitch> hehe
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<dsmith> derek: Just got back.  Did you get your system back up?
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<derek> yes
<derek> hmm netsplit?
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<derek> hey mdean you have mame working right?
<derek> on debina
<derek> er debian
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<mdean> nope - deb is only on the laptop and it's not even speaking dhcp yet 
Action: ajmitch has had remarkably few problems with debian
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<derek> hmmm
<derek> i have a galeon process that wont die
<derek> kill -9 pid#
<derek> wont even kill it
<derek> is there a more 'violent' kill?
<mdean> is it Zombie?
<derek> dont know
<mdean> ps ax | grep galeon
<derek> restarting X
<mdean> see if 3rd column is Z
<derek> seeing if comes back
<derek> its gone now
<derek> when i do top
<derek> it shows 1 zombie
<derek> how do i find out what process it is?
<dsmith> derek: Do a ps ax -H next time (or pstree).  Kill the parent. If it's X, yeah, restart X.
<mdean> ps ax | grep Z
<mdean> there are more elegant solutions, I'm sure
<dsmith> ps ax| grep XXX   Use it all the time.
<dsmith> "ps ax | grep -v grep | grep XXX" keeps the grep from showing up.
<mdean> ja - but I'm too lazy to do that sometimes ;-)
<chillywilly> back
<derek> ok galeon bin is still there
<derek> and its zombie
<derek> how do i 'whack it'
<mdean> reboot 
<derek> seriously
<mdean> ja
<derek> what is this m$ linux ;()
<derek> are you pulling my leg or do you really have to reboot
<chillywilly> kill its parent
<chillywilly> ps ax -H
<derek> how do you find out what its parent is?
<dsmith> The only way to kill a zombie is for it's parent to call wait() on it, but the parent is gone, that's why it's a zombie.
<derek> um chillywilly there are two galeons
<derek> one type D
<derek> one type Z
<mdean> yup - zombie = lost child
<mdean> Z = zombie
<chillywilly>  PROCESS STATE CODES
<chillywilly>        D   uninterruptible sleep (usually IO)
<derek> sigh
<chillywilly> ps ax -H shows parent child relationships
<dsmith> pstree and ps -H show parent/child relationships.
<derek> this is first time i have had to reboot linux
<derek> for something other than stupidity on my part
<derek> or hardware bastardization
<chillywilly> why would you reboot it?
Action: derek feels like he is being devirgined....
<dsmith> chillywilly: How do you keep typing just what I type befor I can?
<derek> my first uncontrollable zombie
<chillywilly> I am damn good ;)
<chillywilly> j/k
<chillywilly> psychic even
<derek> chillywilly: um cuz i thought you guys said that was only way to kill a zombie
<dsmith> derek: try a killall galeon
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<laurie> you lose
<chillywilly> init will reap zombies...you shouldn't have to go that extreme if there are no immediate parents than perhaps X is a parent?
<laurie> laurie@grapevine:~$ ps -ax |grep Z
<laurie> Bad syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'?
<laurie>  1023 ?        Z      0:00 [galeon-bin <defunct>]
<laurie>  1131 ?        S      0:00 gnome-smproxy --sm-config-prefix /.gnome-smproxy-ZOMZAj/ --sm-client-id 117f000001000100094264500000107120000
<laurie>  1191 pts/0    S      0:00 grep Z
<laurie> laurie@grapevine:~$ 
<dsmith> If it has a parent, you can kill the parent and the zombie will go away.
<laurie>  1002 ?        D      0:11   /usr/bin/galeon-bin --sm-client-id 117f000001000101 1023 ?        Z      0:00     [galeon-bin <defunct>]
<chillywilly> kill -9 1002
<laurie> but chilly said D meant uninterruptable sleep
<chillywilly> does that work?>
<chillywilly> so what
<chillywilly> kill the bastard
<laurie> laurie@grapevine:~$ kill -9 1002
<laurie> laurie@grapevine:~$ ps -ax |grep Z
<laurie> Bad syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'?
<laurie>  1023 ?        Z      0:00 [galeon-bin <defunct>]
<laurie>  1131 ?        S      0:00 gnome-smproxy --sm-config-prefix /.gnome-smproxy-ZOMZAj/ --sm-client-id 117f000001000100094264500000107120000
<laurie>  1193 pts/0    S      0:00 grep Z
<chillywilly> ;P
<laurie> laurie@grapevine:~$ 
<laurie> nope i tried it already but did again for kicks
<laurie> so sounds like mdean is closer to correct unless you have other ideas?
<dsmith> Did ps ax -H show the parent?
<chillywilly> you have not looked at parent child stuff
<laurie>  1002 ?        D      0:11   /usr/bin/galeon-bin --sm-client-id 117f000001000101 1023 ?        Z      0:00     [galeon-bin <defunct>]
<laurie> i pasted that earlier :)
<laurie> you told me to kill -9 1002 (the parent i assume)
<chillywilly> you cannot kill 1002?
<laurie> and no dice
<laurie> chillywilly: kill -9 1002 did not work
<laurie> if you have other suggestions im all ears
<chillywilly> is 1002 the parent?
<dsmith> it's kill 9 xxx not kill -9 xxx
<laurie> ?
<chillywilly> dsmith: umm, you can use -9
<dsmith> Ok.
<laurie> laurie@grapevine:~$ kill 9 1002
<laurie> bash: kill: (9) - No such process
<laurie> laurie@grapevine:~$ 
<laurie> dont think it works w/o the -
<dsmith> <laurie> Bad syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'?
<chillywilly> it is kill -9
<chillywilly> kill 9 is bs
<chillywilly> it si saying kill the process with id 9
<chillywilly> kill -9 says send SIGKILL
<dsmith> chillywilly: You are right.  I am wakky.
<laurie> regardless i have a D and a Z process out there
<laurie> that arent playing nice
<laurie> shall i reboot
<laurie> or do you have ideas?
<chillywilly> what is D's parent?
<laurie> how do i tell?
<chillywilly> ps -axH
<chillywilly> er
<dsmith> Or pstree
<chillywilly> ps ax H
<chillywilly> woops
<chillywilly> ps ax -H
<laurie> cat: invalid option -- H
<laurie> Try `cat --help' for more information.
<dsmith> ps ax -H shows the tree structure.
<laurie>   PID TTY      STAT   TIME COMMAND
<laurie>     6 ?        SW     0:00 [kupdated]
<laurie>     5 ?        SW     0:00 [bdflush]
<laurie>     4 ?        SW     0:02 [kswapd]
<laurie>     3 ?        SWN    0:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0]
<laurie>     1 ?        S      0:00 init
<laurie>     2 ?        SW     0:00   [keventd]
<mdean> could be done with the reboot by now ;-)
<laurie>    95 ?        S      0:00   /sbin/portmap
<laurie>   168 ?        S      0:00   /sbin/syslogd
<laurie>   170 ?        S      0:00   /sbin/klogd
<laurie>   378 ?        S      0:00   /usr/sbin/inetd
<laurie>   387 ?        S      0:00   /usr/sbin/sshd
<laurie>   391 ?        S      0:02   /usr/bin/X11/xfs -daemon
<laurie>   395 ?        S      0:00   /usr/bin/X11/xfs-xtt -daemon -user nobody -port 7110
<laurie>   398 ?        S      0:00   /usr/sbin/atd
<laurie>   401 ?        S      0:00   /usr/sbin/cron
<laurie>   405 ?        S      0:00   /usr/bin/gdm
<dsmith> This is a fishing lesson!
<laurie>   410 ?        S      0:00     /usr/bin/gdm
<laurie>   412 ?        S<    15:09       /usr/bin/X11/X :0 -deferglyphs 16 -nolisten tcp vt7 -dpi 100 -auth /var/lib/gdm/:0.Xauth
<laurie>  1102 ?        S      0:01       /usr/bin/gnome-session --purge-delay=15000
<laurie>  1127 ?        S      0:00         /usr/bin/ssh-agent -- /usr/bin/gnome-session --purge-delay=15000
<chillywilly> dsmith: ;)
<laurie>   414 tty1     S      0:00   /sbin/getty 38400 tty1
<laurie>   415 tty2     S      0:00   /sbin/getty 38400 tty2
<laurie>   416 tty3     S      0:00   /sbin/getty 38400 tty3
<laurie>   417 tty4     S      0:00   /sbin/getty 38400 tty4
<laurie>   418 tty5     S      0:00   /sbin/getty 38400 tty5
<laurie>   419 tty6     S      0:00   /sbin/getty 38400 tty6
<laurie>   907 ?        S      0:00   oafd --ac-activate --ior-output-fd=11
<laurie>  1002 ?        D      0:11   /usr/bin/galeon-bin --sm-client-id 117f000001000101046100100000004630001
<laurie>  1023 ?        Z      0:00     [galeon-bin <defunct>]
<laurie>  1006 ?        S      0:00   /usr/bin/gconfd-1 7
<laurie>  1014 ?        S      0:01   oafd --ac-activate --ior-output-fd=10
<laurie>  1131 ?        S      0:00   gnome-smproxy --sm-config-prefix /.gnome-smproxy-ZOMZAj/ --sm-client-id 117f000001000100094264500000107120000
<laurie>  1144 ?        S      0:05   /usr/bin/sawfish --sm-client-id 117f000001000100094264800000107120002 --sm-prefix 9ykodtsddm
<laurie>  1146 ?        S      0:02   xscreensaver -nosplash
<laurie>  1150 ?        S      0:08   panel --sm-config-prefix /panel.d/default-D1Hajd/ --sm-client-id 117f000001000100094265100000107120007
<mdean> ooh, so kill init!
<laurie>  1152 ?        S      0:00   gnome-name-service
<laurie>  1154 ?        S      0:01   deskguide_applet --activate-goad-server deskguide_applet --goad-fd 10
<laurie>  1158 ?        S      0:04   gnome-terminal --use-factory --start-factory-server
<laurie>  1160 ?        S      0:00     gnome-pty-helper
<laurie>  1161 pts/0    S      0:00     bash
<laurie>  1204 pts/1    S      0:00     bash
<laurie>  1186 ?        S      0:07   xchat
<laurie>  1216 ?        R      0:00     ps ax -H
<chillywilly> just as a feared init is its parent
<laurie> mdean: i agree
<laurie> but i want to learn if there is a way in case in environment where reboot not an optoin
<laurie> any ideas?
<laurie> my pizza is here, so its prime reboot time
<laurie> ok rebooting be back later
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Action: chillywilly wonders how da masta manages to find all the weird bugs
<chillywilly> anyone know if pthread_t is the thread id or a struct?
<mdean> aren't _t names usually structs?
<chillywilly> beats me
<chillywilly> I just want to know the tid
<chillywilly> print it out in my debuggin' lines
<ajmitch> look in the headers
<chillywilly> I'm too lazy for that
<chillywilly> maybe if I can't find it I'll dig through headers
<mdean> looks like the ID
<mdean> according to my book, anyway
Action: chillywilly has this nice url to thic C book
<chillywilly> ok
<mdean> I have Practical Unix Programming :)
<chillywilly> you would thin info libc would show you ;)
Action: chillywilly looked briefly at glibc pthread stuff
<mdean> "The tid parameter of pthread_create points to the ID of the thread that is created."
<chillywilly> I know it is a pthread_t *
<chillywilly> maybe it is a typedef
<chillywilly> ah well I'll just print it once
<chillywilly> what the hel
<chillywilly> l
Action: chillywilly wonders if this old madden '97 game will run under wine
<mdean> typedef unsigned long int pthread_t;
<chillywilly> kewl
<mdean> in <bits/pthreadtypes.h>
Action: chillywilly can just print out the _tid in gnu common c++'s Thread class
<chillywilly> it is a DWORD on win32
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> the _tid
<chillywilly> hey ajmitch
<chillywilly> you ever upgrade mutt?
<ajmitch> who cares about win32?
<chillywilly> are those smutt id issues fixed?
<chillywilly> er, mutt ;)
<chillywilly> damnit
<chillywilly> that's not what I meant to type
<ajmitch> yeah, why?
<ajmitch> what issues?
<chillywilly> I just saw the apt bot talking about how mutt was broken a while ago
<chillywilly> because of GNU TLS
<chillywilly>  /msg apt news #debian
<chillywilly> that "talking"
Action: chillywilly can't afford to let mutt get b0rked
<chillywilly> what version of mutt you go installed?
<chillywilly> 1.3.14?
<chillywilly> er
<chillywilly> 1.3.24?
<ajmitch> i dunno which one is running
<chillywilly> what version you got installed?
<ajmitch> since i upgraded this morning & haven't restarted it
<chillywilly> ah
<chillywilly> looks to be fixed
<chillywilly> eek
<chillywilly>  [ 2]* do not upgrade to unstable's base-passwd (bug #130032)
<chillywilly> boy they are so detailed
<ajmitch> there's a new base-passwd that fixes that
<chillywilly> ok
<ajmitch> detailed?
<chillywilly> 0:12:07] -apt- if you've already done this, install testing's version of base-passwd, and hopefully it fixes things
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> not url to the big or anything
<ajmitch> the bug report has the details
<chillywilly> er, bug
<chillywilly> but damnit
<ajmitch> http://bugs.debian.org/130032
<chillywilly> I am lazy
<ajmitch> uid/gid were reversed in /etc/passwd
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> why does it touch that file?
<chillywilly> it's goignt o change my friggin password for me?
<chillywilly> ;P
<derek> sigh
<derek> back from dinner
<derek> and that reboot fried my system again
<chillywilly> uh?
<chillywilly> how?
<mdean> derek: if you haven't, stick that hd on another box and back up your data now! :)
<derek> i backed up my data
<derek> i did a shutdown
<derek> it must not have shutdown cleanly
<mdean> the worst that should happen in that case is some fsck magic
<mdean> unless you're running ReiserFS ;-)
<derek> btw: w/ ext2 i have seen this a lot
<chillywilly> umm, ext2 bit me hard one time
<derek> poor shutdown == you be fucked
<chillywilly> so I switched to xfs
<chillywilly> I would recommend upgrading to ext3 or something
<mdean> xfs isn't bad, but ext3 is pretty slow in my experience
<chillywilly> xfs is fast
<mdean> limited experience as it is ;-)
<mdean> xfs and reiser are both fast
<chillywilly> dunno about reiser
<derek> right now i would be happy w/ something that works consistently
<derek> as much as a i love debian
<derek> i ahvent had good luck w/ debian
<derek> i still have rh5.x and rh6.2 machines running
<chillywilly> do you ever have good luck?
<chillywilly> ;P
<mdean> derek: if this is to be your wife's machine, you would seriously be better off with Mandark
<derek> i wont touch mandrake
<derek> its debian or death
<mdean> mmmm ok
<derek> basically my big gripe on redhat or mandrake is maintenance
<derek> im seriously hooked on apt
<mdean> and your experience with debian thus far is....
<derek> i have heard of urpmi
<derek> i like debian a lot
<mdean> they have an update tool that works fine
<derek> it just wastes my time often
<chillywilly> that's why you keep detailed admin notes
Action: chillywilly has started this
<chillywilly> I don't have the capacity to remember it all
<derek> i have found its a trade off
Action: mdean DCCs chillywilly a noodle upgrade
<derek> debian problems generally make me 'learn' something about linux
<chillywilly> hehe
<dsmith> derek: Don't confuse Debian with Linux!
<derek> red hat problems generally just waste my time
<chillywilly> journaling file system are so nice
<mdean> chillywilly: preach on!
<derek> i think this machine is just running hot or something 
<derek> its got 'brain damage'
<derek> sigh
<chillywilly> well GNU/Linux mounts ext2 asynchronously which is bad if you crash
<dsmith> chillywilly: Have you heard about softupdates on *bsd filesystems?
<chillywilly> nope
<dsmith> They order the writes so that the fs is *always* in a consistent state.
<chillywilly> interesting
<dsmith> No need for a journal "bandaid" to help fsck.
<chillywilly> *bsd is real unix so I would expect something cool like that ;P
<chillywilly> not that i care much for their license though
<dsmith> When i's finished, there will be no fsck.
<dsmith> Ext2 can be hosed in shuch a way that fsck can't fix it.
<chillywilly> yup
<dsmith> Ohh, but I like Debian packages!
<chillywilly> It has happened to me already
<chillywilly> I learnt my lesson
<chillywilly> /dev/hda2 on / type xfs (rw)
<chillywilly> proc on /proc type proc (rw)
<chillywilly> /dev/hda1 on /boot type ext2 (rw)
<chillywilly> /dev/hda3 on /usr/local type xfs (rw)
<chillywilly> /dev/hda6 on /home type xfs (rw)
<dsmith> Always use sync writes?
<chillywilly> use journaling
<dsmith> AHhh. journals.
<chillywilly> (not ideal, but I don;t loose data
<chillywilly> )
<chillywilly> sync writes are really friggin slow though
<dsmith> softupdates is the speed of async with the safty of sync writes.
<derek> well i give up
Action: dsmith remembers this conversation.
<derek> wasted full day w/ that machine
<derek> sigh
<derek> will never get my laptop upgraded to debian at this rate
<dsmith> deja vu all over again
Action: chillywilly doesn't remember it
<chillywilly> poor masta
<dsmith> derek: So what was/is the problem?
Action: chillywilly kicks debian
<chillywilly> he fscked his ext2 partition?
<chillywilly> no pun intended ;)
<derek> same thing
<derek> i think there is hardware bug as this just isnt 'normal'
<derek> so i rebooted w/ rescue adn did fsck to fix
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> possibly
<derek> then in the middle of boot up it freaked on something]
<derek> and then segfaulted on insmod
<chillywilly> what kinda machine?
<derek> which then hung eth load
<dsmith> Bad memory?
<derek> dsmith, could be have played with it a bit
<derek> i think probably bad mother board
<chillywilly> :(
<derek> but at this point motherboard replacement for k6 300 
<mdean> me too - esp if cdrom works in another box
<derek> is more expensive than a athlon or duron w/ case, motherboard and cpu
<dsmith> Temperature problems?
<derek> dsmith: nah its running cool as cucumber
<derek> dust problems perhaps
Action: chillywilly goes to get a red mountain dew
<derek> it was very dirty
Action: mdean sips his Double Cherry Latte...
<derek> rofl
Action: dsmith hates wierd flakey hardware problems.
<mdean> derek: how about some good news?  20020120 was just released :)
<derek> i hate hardware period
<derek> mdean sigh thats not good news
<chillywilly> hehe
<derek> it means more catch up for me :)
Action: chillywilly was doing embedded systems for a while there
Action: dsmith used to fix ibm mainframes a long long time ago.
<mdean> derek: I had to upgrade the demo from 20010327 - went smooth as silk
<derek> i'd say what has changed
<derek> BUT
<dsmith> chillywilly: Emdedded is cool.
<derek> i suppose the 300 commit mails will tell me ;)
Action: derek is pining for a zaurus
<mdean> mmmmmmmmmm............Zaurus...............
<chillywilly> dsmith: hey man you need to be able to go to work and wire up a cricuit, hook up the oscpoe, burn your code into a chip, and go to town ;)
Action: dsmith is enjoying the rock solid stability of OpenBSD on his laptop.
<dsmith> chillywilly: All I needed was a bit and a scope for debugging.
<dsmith> None of this "debugger" stuff.
<dsmith> Bah!
<dsmith> :)
Action: chillywilly was debugging by pulling pins high ;)
<chillywilly> the software emulator was useful
<chillywilly> but not always
<dsmith> chillywilly: I had a cool static ram eprom simulator.  Didn't have to burn eproms.
<chillywilly> a hardware one?
<chillywilly> yes, we had one of those
<dsmith> Ya
<chillywilly> never used it though
<dsmith> Used make to build my code, dl it into ram, and run my test.
<chillywilly> I usually had a UV package that I could just cook
<chillywilly> to erase it
<dsmith> chillywilly: yep.
Action: dsmith wishes he was doing embedded systems stuff again.
Action: chillywilly does too
<dsmith> chillywilly: You ever work with dsp's?
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<chillywilly> damnit
<chillywilly> why did Dave make _tid fucking private
<chillywilly> damn him all to hell
<mdean> yeah!  everything should be public!
<chillywilly> well there should be a public method ;)
<chillywilly> so that I can get the tid of the thread
<mdean> at least a protected one
<chillywilly> yea
<derek> mdean: the naked pictures of chillywilly that ajmitch has can stay private (imho) other than that i agree all should be public ;)
<chillywilly> pfft
<mdean> hehe
Action: chillywilly beats derek with a whale shark
Action: mdean cranks up some Iced Earth...
Action: chillywilly cranks up Pantera
Action: dsmith walks his dog
<dsmith> Was someone in here looking for a web based personal app?
<chillywilly> I was
<chillywilly> my buddy was asking me about getting ppl off of M$ money or something like that
<chillywilly> he's a unix admin for the police and fire stations in this suburb
<dsmith> Did you check out gnuledger?
<chillywilly> he wanted a web based thing
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> I'll have to email him
<chillywilly> where's that at? savannah?
<dsmith> http://webaccountant.sourceforge.net/
<chillywilly> I mentioned GNUe, but we don't have any fully functional apps yet
<chillywilly> well nothing like an accounting replacement yet
<dsmith> At least, it *looks* web based.
<chillywilly> lol
<chillywilly> the comic is funny
<chillywilly> is this part of the gnu project?
<dsmith> Don't think so.
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> then why do they call it gnuledger?
<dsmith> It's not sql-ledger
<dsmith> Not everything gnu is gnu.
<chillywilly> they should get a swift kick in the ass for that
<chillywilly> if you're not gnu then don't use gnu, imho
<chillywilly> it's confusing
<dsmith> yes
Action: chillywilly mails his buddy
<dsmith> It's gpl.
<derek> agree
<derek> people call products
<derek> gnusomething
<derek> because they use the gnu gpl
<derek> they should instead say gplsomething
<derek> i.e. gpl-ledger
<mdean> ja - there's quite a few "GNU" projects
<mdean> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/webaccountant/0.3-series/GnuLedger-icons/deleteuser.gif?rev=1.1.1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
<mdean> that should be the standard icon for deleting users in all software
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> ;P
Action: chillywilly waits for the wine debs to install
<mdean> a little wine with your cheese?
<chillywilly> yup
<chillywilly> especially after today :(
<chillywilly> damn Packers
<chillywilly> they fucking sucked
<chillywilly> derek: you see them get their ass waxed?
<mdean> oooh - they have the slashbox icons too
<chillywilly> 17 - 45
<chillywilly> it was a sad sad thing
<chillywilly> not that I really ecpected them to beat the Rams
<chillywilly> but I didn't expect them to lay an egg
<derek> i was busy fighting debian 
<derek> i walked in w/ 4 min left in fourth
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> pretty sad eh?
<chillywilly> 6 interceptions by Favre
<derek> hoping to get good football like i did in oakland / new england game i watched last 5 min of
<derek> but i saw score was 45 to under 20 and turned off the tv
<chillywilly> game was over at the end of the 3rd
<derek> i thought rams would beat on them a bit
<derek> but was more thinking 
<derek> 35 - 28
<derek> or something
<derek> or 35 - 21 at worst
<derek> but not a 45 - 17 spanking
<chillywilly> Favre sucked
<derek> who won the early game?
<derek> i watched it but i forget
<derek> ravens lost right
<chillywilly> yea
<derek> steelers won like 20 - 10 or something?
<chillywilly> steelers whooped 'em
<derek> mdean: i think that 'delete' user icon should be the 'help' icon :)
<chillywilly> I think 27 - 10
<dsmith> It is a Good Thin when the ravens lose.
Action: dsmith is from Cleveland.
<chillywilly> wine is slow
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Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:04:33)
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--- Mon Jan 21 2002