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<jamest> IIRC someone arround here is a apt wizard
<jamest> i could use some apt magic at the moment
<jamest> ahhhhh
<jamest> fixed
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<lucianoaibar> hello here.
<lucianoaibar> i need help.....
<lucianoaibar> i want to make my software free..
<lucianoaibar> with the gnu license.
<reinhard> lucianoaibar: a good idea
<reinhard> you have some questions?
<lucianoaibar> yes...
<lucianoaibar> hello
<lucianoaibar> how to make my soft free?
<lucianoaibar> bye...
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<reinhard> arg
<reinhard> people are so impatient these days...
<jamest> he's storing dates in three fields
<jamest> semester, year, date
<jamest> all text strings
<jamest> so the user would have to enter
<jamest> SPRING 
<jamest> 2002
<jamest> THURSDAY Jan. 17
<jamest> whoops wrong window
<jcater> really?
<jcater> I thought that was your response to reinhard
<jcater> ;)
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<dneighbo> dasfk;jdlk;
<dneighbo> sorry testing to see if that worked
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<Yurik> re
Action: joebullhead is away: I'm busy
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<Mr_You> hi all
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<daminal> Question - Can you get there from here?
<Mr_You> ?
<daminal> There being Oracle 7.3.4, on Sprc Solaris 2.6
<Mr_You> I think so
<daminal> Here being forms clents on windows and linux
<Mr_You> yah
<jcater> daminal: oh, yeah
Action: jcater went from Oracle 7.3.4 on Solaris/Intel
<jcater> to forms clients on Win + Lin
<jcater> I still use the oracle database as a backend
<jcater> although am considering changing to SAP-DB (as it is Free but just as strong)
<Mr_You> why not postgresql?
<jcater> well, am considering that too
<jcater> however, I will say it's easier to sell ppl who
<jcater> feel that you must pay a support contract
<Mr_You> onoce postgresql has reliable and production quality replication.. it will REALLY rock
<jcater> that a product from SAP is more viable than a community-supported product
<jcater> whether that statement is true or not is another story
<jcater> but it's a matter of perception
<Mr_You> but they pay you for support ;-)
<daminal> This is a BaanIV system, no chance of changing DB,
<jcater> btw, from what I gather, SAP-DB is pretty damn impressive
<jcater> BeanIV?
<Mr_You> if anyone sees chilly anytime soon I wanna chat with him
<jcater> daminal: I'm just discussing what I might do... we definitely support oracle
<daminal> OK, I've been experimenting, and no joy.
<daminal> It's a driver thing I think, DCoracle and cxOracle need NET8
<jcater> yes, they do... you still need the client libraries to connect
<jcater> unfortunately
<daminal> Bother. I've never tried to connect to a 7.3.4 db from a later client
<jcater> hmm
<daminal> Mostly because I don't have one :-)
<jcater> iirc, OCI8 is compatable w/7.3.4 
<jcater> as I've used Net8 against a 7.3.4 db running on SCO
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<daminal> I'm encouraged. Now all I've got to do is get my grubby mits on some up to date client libraries.
<Yurik> sf.net is down
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<Yurik> re
<reinhard> night all
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<Yurik> dneighbo hi
<dneighbo> hello
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<dneighbo> ta ta
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<Yurik> ajmitch_ 
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<Yurik> jamest hi
<ajmitch> hi
<jamest> hi
<jcater> dudes... win4lin totally rocks
<chillywilly> heh
<jcater> although I feel kinda dirty for actually buying software for Linux
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<chillywilly> howdy partner
<jcater> 'sup
<chillywilly> nothin' much
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Action: dsmith sings "chillywilly" to the tune of "wooly booly"
<chillywilly> :P
<jcater> dudes
<jcater> what is it called when a culture has a history of stories?
<jcater> folk legends?
<jcater> folk tales?
<dsmith> oral history
<chillywilly> dunno
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> oral history or oral tradition
<jcater> thanks
<jcater> that's what I was fishing for
Action: dsmith wins the prize!
<jcater> yes
<jcater> 3 days, 2 nights in #gnuenterprise
<dsmith> heh
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<chillywilly> how can you setup dcc to work from behind a firewall using the public IP address of the gateway machine?
<dsmith> You need a proxy on the fw
<dsmith> I got one, just havent set it up yet.
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<chillywilly> dsmith: how exactly would you set that up? using iptables?
<dsmith> chillywilly: I'm talkin OpenBSD here.
<ajmitch> yeah it's simple :)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: you got dcc working from behind you firewall?
<chillywilly> your
<ajmitch> chillywilly: it requires a bit of portforwarding with iptables, and changing a setting with xchat
<dsmith> chillywilly: I havent touched a Linux maaq/nat box since around 2.2.28
<ajmitch> i dunno, i have other stuff like cvs & apache port forwarded
<chillywilly> setting a port for chat to use and then openning and forwarding that port right?
<chillywilly> xchat
<ajmitch> as an example for cvs:
<ajmitch> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 2401 -i $PPP_IFACE -j DNAT --to 192.168.0.1:2401
<jcater> dsmith: I switched to openbsd as a firewall too
<ajmitch> modify the port numbers, $PPP_IFACE, and the ip, and setup xchat
<jcater> dsmith: but I will say, iptables is much closer to openbsd's ipf than the 2.2 kernel's ipchains were
<chillywilly> ajmitch: I had a similar setup
<ajmitch> chillywilly: didn't work?
<jcater> dsmith: just in case you were wondering ;)
<chillywilly> set xchat to use 9000 and 9001
<chillywilly> openthose ports
<dsmith> Sorry, that was 2.*0*.28
<chillywilly> forwarded them to my machine: 192.168.1.2
<dsmith> jcater: I am *very* impressed with obsd.  Just installed it on the laptop.  Sound, video, apm, it all worked with the default kernel.
<jcater> I'm still on 2.9
<jcater> haven't upgraded to 3.0 yet
<jcater> actually, not sure if I will
<dsmith> My fw is 2.8
<jcater> as I relied on ipf heavily
<jcater> and as I'm sure you know, that was removed in 3.0
<chillywilly> why OpenBSD? ad not FreeBSD?
<chillywilly> and
<dsmith> Yes, 3.0 has pf, which is supposed to be better and more bsd licnese friendly.
<jcater> well, from a firewall point of view, it doesn't get much better than OpenBSD
<jcater> other than a disconnected ethernet cable
<dsmith> chillywilly: security, reliablity
<jcater> ;)
<dsmith> There is no other os that has tighter code reviews that obsd, commerial or free.
<dsmith> If you want speed, and desktop stuff, go for freebsd.
<chillywilly> yea, well the license leaves something to be desired ;P
<jcater> eh?
<jcater> it's bsd
<jcater> it's free
<dsmith> If you can live with a slightly slower, but rock solid box: obsd.
<jcater> if they want bsd-license, then that's their decision
<dsmith> I you want win-modems and irda and other cool stuff, go for Linux.
<chillywilly> jcater: we're not going to get into that discussion
<jcater> btw, iptables brings similar power to linux
<jcater> but that's awefully recent
<chillywilly> iptables and netfilter is great
<dsmith> And linux is finally getting a bsd-like vm system.
<dsmith> I'll tell you a story about why I like bsd.
<jcater> I still miss the ports collection
<chillywilly> well, of kernels temselves as far as pure design goes the Hurd has the most interesting design
<dsmith> I had a hard disk that was failing because of temp problems.
<jcater> interesting doesnt == stable ;)
<dsmith> Wanted to make sure it was harware and not the os.
<dsmith> Linux would get real slow. I couldn't start any new process that weren't already in ram.
<dsmith> The shudown hung.
<dsmith> Windows 2k just locked up tight.  BAM.
<dsmith> Freebsd? I would get a log message complaining it couldn;t swap some buffers back to disk.
<dsmith> When I shut it down, it aplogised for taking so long.  THen it admitted there was a buffer or two it couldn't write out.  Sorry.
<dsmith> But there was *no* speed decrease.  It was like nothing was wrong.
<dsmith> Turned my head around in a whole differnt direction.
<dsmith> Obsd is useless for desktop use though.  No apps. Well, some, but not the ones I wanted.
Action: dsmith really really appreciate Debian.
<ajmitch> debian is good
<jcater> debian has become my favorite server too, though
<jcater> obsd is still my favorite firewall server
<chillywilly> debian is awesome
<chillywilly> debian needs some nice firewall scripts
<dsmith> Debian is the only linux, as far as I'm concerend
<jcater> but you can build a rock-solid debian install as long as you do a custom install
<jcater> dsmith: after using debian for several months (and doing at least 2 incremental upgrades w/apt)
<jcater> I wonder WHY anyone would use the others
<chillywilly> gnu/linux even ;)
<dsmith> Yep.
<jcater> I have a RedHat and Slackware install still in use at the office
<jcater> but they are gonna be phased out this summer
<jcater> as every six months to a year I basically do a reinstall on them
<dsmith> And it's NOT because apt is so cool. (apt *is* cool)
<dsmith> It's because of the Debian Policy and the high standards that the maintainers must adhere to.
<ajmitch> yes
<jcater> oh, yeah
<chillywilly> who's going to be my dcc gineapig?
<jcater> apt isn't too much superior to rpm
<ajmitch> apt isn't work much if all the dependencies are broken, and the packages are crap
<jcater> but the underlying apt network of packages are much superior
<dsmith> There are people who want an rpm apt. It's the quality of that packages.
<jcater> I got Win4Lin running on top of debian today
<jcater> as well as SCO OpenServer ;)
<jcater> this rocks
<chillywilly> ajmitch: I am talkijg about sending out a dcc
<jcater> err, got SCO apps running on debian, that is
<chillywilly> I cna get them fine
<dsmith> jcater: vmware? plex86?
<jcater> Win4lin
<jcater> plex86 isn't anywhere close to being usable yet
<jcater> but I've been watching it for 2 years in hope
<jcater> well, Win4Lin for Windows support and linux-abi for SCO support
<chillywilly> ajmitch: no dice eh?
<ajmitch> tcp        0      1 203.173.236.21:45338    192.168.1.2:9000        SYN_SENT    4971/xchat       
<jcater> I can run my QuarkXPress, Photoshop, Freehand, and DreamWeaver in Linux now
Action: jcater is happy
Action: jcater does a happy dance
<ajmitch> it's not masqing your ip
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> I don't know why
<ajmitch> it'll be xchat i guess
<chillywilly> hrrrm
<chillywilly> what did you all change in xchat then?
<ajmitch> there's an 'get my ip address from server' option under irc->ip address
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> do I need an IP in that box above the check?
<ajmitch> nope, that's why the option is there :P
<chillywilly> ok
<ajmitch> same thing
<chillywilly> where was that lines from
<chillywilly> line
<chillywilly> ok
<ajmitch> which line?
<chillywilly> that you pasted
<ajmitch> maybe you need to do silly things like reconnect or restart xchat?
<chillywilly> what log was that from?
<chillywilly> ok
<ajmitch> i pasted that from the file i sent you
<chillywilly> no
<chillywilly> the one showing that my IP was not masq'd
<chillywilly> looked like one from a log file
<ajmitch> oh, that was netstat -nutap
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> brb
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<dsmith> wb chillywilly
<chillywilly> thansk
<chillywilly> er, thanks
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<derek> jcater: why dreamweaver?
<derek> i.e. what do you need dreamweaver for?
<derek> i understand quark and photoshop (and dont know what the other is)
<jcater> it's still my favorite html editor
<jcater> I can actually live w/o it
<jcater> but it made my list bigger
<jcater> and we all know bigger lists are better
<derek> have you tried 'bluefish'
<jcater> but main reasons were quark (desktop publishing), photoshop (bitmap graphics), and freehand (vector graphics)
<derek> i think thats what its called for linux?
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> it's pretty cool
<jcater> that's actually what I'm using now
<jcater> not quite the same, but a good start
<chillywilly> gimp and sodipodi not usable?
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<jcater> sodipodi?
<jcater> actually, our marketing manager (a good friend of mine) 
<jcater> is BEGGING me to get her KDE + Debian
<chillywilly> vecotr graphics program
<chillywilly> vector
<jcater> now that I can get her apps to run under debian, she might get her wish ;)
<chillywilly> cool
<derek> :)
<derek> jcater: why she wanting debian + kde?
<jcater> well, she's my lunch partner
<jcater> as so naturally I talk about crap I face at work
<derek> ah
<jcater> but I've been going on and on about how easier my job is
<derek> well i might have good news
<jcater> will all the debian servers, etc
<jcater> plus it "looks cool"
<derek> for documentatoin my group isnt willing to do markup
<derek> so that makes docbook out
<derek> they would 'willing' to look at lyx
<derek> but getting lyx working on windows is like impossible
<jcater> ok
<derek> however, i think we have sold star office :) (open office)
<jcater> ah, cool
<derek> as it has built in version control!
<jcater> open office does?
<derek> and has 'master documents' to assign sytles
<derek> jcater: yip
<jcater> cool
<derek> i tested it heavily the other day pretty slick
<dsmith> Staroffice is amazingly close to m$ stuff.
<jcater> I'm wanting to switch my office
<derek> it lets you even do diffs
<derek> i.e. each document allows you to save as version
<dsmith> jcater: open or star?
<derek> and basically do a comment like 'cvs does'
<derek> then you can open old versions
<derek> or do diffs between versions
<jcater> well, preferably OpenOffice
<jcater> but I haven't tested both yet
<derek> not as good as cvs obviously, but its way better than word method they use now
<jcater> I didn't particularly like Star 5.2's integrated desktop
<derek> myfile.doc
<derek> myfile1.doc
<derek> myfile2.doc
<derek> myfile3.doc
<derek> :)
<dsmith> so takes 62 seconds to start on my box
<derek> open office is slick i use at work a lot now
<jcater> dsmith: which?
<derek> bbs store drive
Action: derek drives to the store (unlike them hicks that insist on 'running')
<dsmith> jcater: Umm. 5.2 ?
<jcater> yeah
Action: dsmith checks
<jcater> that's why we didn't switch a year or so ago
<jcater> too slow
<dsmith> Yes, 5.2.  It only takes about 10 sec after the first time.
<dsmith> THis is an 850Mhz 250Meg PIII
<dsmith> bogomips        : 1690.82
<dsmith> And it still takes 62 seconds!  But I have to do timesheets in an excel spreadsheet.  Works great.
<derek> 70 seconds here
<derek> on p3 500mhz 128mb RAM
<derek> i will say the way i use linux i have lots of virtual desktops
<derek> when i run star office i start up a session give its own vdesktop
<derek> and it doesnt 'eat' resources while idle
<derek> so the long start up time doesnt bug me much
<dsmith> I think the think is half java
<dsmith> thing
<derek> that and i only start it on sundays to do presentation for the worship service
Action: derek is really leaving for store now before it closes
<derek> all: please make sure i have this right
<derek> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/article.php?sid=55&mode=thread&order=0
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<dsmith> WHen you say 2 tier, can you have windows clients, and the db on a unix box?
<jcater> yes
<jcater> 2-tier simply means the forms client talks directly to the db in the db's native language
<dsmith> But no web based interface.
<jcater> but the client doesn't have to be on the same machine
<jcater> not yet
<jcater> but web-based doesn't imply either 2-tier or n-tier
<jcater> as the "web" is just another forms "client"
<chillywilly> yall mind if I rewrite geas in python ;)
<jcater> not at all
<jcater> chillywilly: sodipodi looks interesting
<jcater> but currently isn't professional grade
<chillywilly> yea, I dunno how usable it is
<jcater> (by any stretch of the imagination)
<jcater> but it looks promising
<jcater> I may try it for smaller stuff
<jcater> and give the authors feedback
<chillywilly> that would be cool
<chillywilly> you gonna be da masta of sodipodi? ;)
<jcater> nah
<jcater> no time
<chillywilly> i.e., find all the bugs and break stuff
<jcater> too busy being the bitch of gnue
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> hehe
Action: dsmith co's gnue from cvs
<derek> back
<derek> hey you know what is funny
<derek> aol
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> trips me out all the time
<derek> i get a disk for 1000 free minutes (for 45 days) in mail today
<ajmitch> heh
<derek> no big deal (got bunch before) but its been a WHILE
<derek> and on it says 'no credit card necessary'
<derek> which is HUGE
<derek> imho
<derek> as before they would get your card and start charging you after trial period unless you asked them to stop
<derek> anyhow
<derek> so i go to grocery store
<derek> and at end of EVERY checkout stand 
<derek> is box of about 200 aol cds
<derek> that say free 1000 hours aol no credit card
<derek> talk about a 'serious' campaign
<derek> based on this and the RH rumor, i am gonna go out on a limb and say AOL/TW is waging 'war' with the beast (m$) 
<chillywilly> they're not messing around
<jcater> well, yeah
<derek> and its gonna get worse before it gets better :)
<jcater> but don't they bill your phone bill
<jcater> as a "long distance carrier" type of arrangement or such
<derek> jcater: if its any 'consolation' your our one of our favorite bitches
<derek> s/your our/you are
<jcater> it's really weird using win98 apps
<jcater> then alt-tabbing into Konq
<jcater> all while keeping this window in the lower left corner
Action: jcater is giddy with joy
<chillywilly> what are you using?
<chillywilly> wine?
<jcater> Win4Lin
<jcater> wine????
<jcater> mwahahahaha
<jcater> you are funny
<chillywilly> I just played Madden '97 on my gnu/linux box
<chillywilly> with wine
<chillywilly> so no
<chillywilly> I am not mad
<chillywilly> perhaps you are?
<jcater> but, of course
<jcater> I have yet to get wine to decently run a needed app
<derek> wine sucks my left nut
<derek> i equate wine to windows on linux
<chillywilly> oh really
<derek> with a more fscked up process to setup up windows than windows itself :)
<jcater> last time I tried to use dreamweaver in it, it infintely opened windows
<derek> i.e. i coudl get stuff to work on it
<chillywilly> wine ha sa nice autoconfigurator now
<jcater> I had a thousands windows before Ctrl + Backspacing
<derek> but only after HOURS of getting configuring stuff
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> I used that today
<jcater> but stillf didn't work
<derek> and configuring it to get application X to work 
<jcater> well, it does run Calc and Notepad well
<derek> would make application Y die
<derek> and so on
<derek> admittedly been about a year
<derek> so it could have made 'great' strides
<derek> but im not betting the farm on it :)
<chillywilly> wine has gone leaps and bounds dince then
<chillywilly> since
<chillywilly> a year, heh
<chillywilly> lets see where GNUe is in a year
<derek> man, i need to get jcater.ogg out of my play list
<chillywilly> er?
<derek> as it darn near makes me wet myself when i hear it after some trash metal song :)
<chillywilly> a year is like forever in the FS world
<derek> as its unspecting silence then 'i choose you' :)
<chillywilly> what does jcater.ogg contain?
<jcater> chillywilly: it's one of my rants against FSF ppl
<chillywilly> send it to me
<chillywilly> plz
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> how big is it?
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<derek> about 12 inches
<derek> oh sorry i only read last line
<jcater> derek: you're too generous
<jcater> 11 1/2 is more like it
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<derek> roflmao
Action: derek was more worried why chillywilly wanted you to 'send it to him'
<derek> chillywilly: i think its out under http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/
<derek> somewhere
<derek> jcater.ogg
--- Thu Jan 24 2002