[00:05] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<derek> guess no one helped poor jerry?
<derek> 24.221.112.50
<derek> oops
<jamest> nope
<jamest> missed him
<jamest> designer now has decent mouse support for layout alteration
<jamest> at least it works for me
<jamest> we need to get 0.1.1 out the door
<jamest> anyway
<jamest> I need sleep
<jamest> l8r
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<baux> hi all!
<dsmith> hey!
<baux> I've a question...
<baux> there's anyonce who could help me?
<ra3vat> hello baux
<baux> s/anyonce/anyone
<baux> I'd like to implement a python methos which retrive all fields in a table and return them. Then write a client which use this method and print out results
<baux> are there some similar examples?
<ra3vat> baux: you using geas?
<baux> ra3vat: yes!
<baux> ra3vat: could you help me?
<ra3vat> it was months ago when I played with geas
<baux> ra3vat: so you don't remember how do this?
<ra3vat> more productive would be to wait for reihard
<ajmitch> hey
<baux> ajmitch: could you help me?
<ajmitch> baux: umm, nope, i've not played with GEAS much at all
<baux> oki
Action: ra3vat is updating gnue from cvs
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<ra3vat> hi reinhard
<ra3vat> reinhard: baux have a question
<reinhard> o
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> i am here now
<ajmitch> hey reinhard
Action: dsmith hands reinhard a cup of coffee
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<baux> Hi reinhard
<reinhard> hi baux
<reinhard> you have a question?
<baux> I'd like to implement a python methos which retrive all fields in a table and return them. Then write a client which use this method and print out results
<baux> how can I do?
<baux> are here some similar examples?
<reinhard> baux: retrieve all fields means
<reinhard> a) retrieve the field names
<reinhard> b) retrieve all data for all fields and all rows?
<baux> b
<reinhard> you know the field names?
<reinhard> if yes you can look at examples/python/addrbook.py
<baux> reinhard: this is a serverside method?
<reinhard> it has a possibility to list all people
<reinhard> no
<reinhard> i don't see how you would do this with a serverside method
<reinhard> actually you don't need a method at all here
<reinhard> at least this is my understanding
<reinhard> you only need a client that requests and reads and outputs the data
<baux> reinhard: this was only an example...
<baux> reinhard: my final idea is to have all insert and cheks methos serverside and call them from remote client
<reinhard> checks method i understand
<reinhard> insert method i don't understand
<reinhard> because for insert you need to provide the data
<reinhard> however
<reinhard> serverside methods are IMPORTANT
<reinhard> and even more
<reinhard> they are UNFINISHED
<reinhard> :-(
<reinhard> we had someone starting to look at it
<reinhard> but he left again too quick
<baux> oki, thank you, I think this is a good thing, delegate insert to client
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<ajmitch> hey jamest
<ra3vat> hey jamest
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<jamest> hey
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<roby> hello
<jamest> hi
<roby> simple (newbie?) question, i am testing the windows version of gfclient against a simple sqlserver database, the query generated is "select something form atable where (0=1)" so i dont have any result, where is the pb ?
<roby> do i have to set an option in the datasource or the database to avoid the insertion of ((1=0)) in the where clause
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<roby> i don't have the source here so i am not able to actually look how the query is constructed by gfclient
<ajmitch> not sure, you'll have to hope jamest comes back :)
<ajmitch> (or jcater)
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<ajmitch> wb jamest
<jamest> thanks
<ajmitch> jamest: able to help roby? :)
<ajmitch> i can't :)
<jamest> what's the problem?
<roby> jamest: simple (newbie?) question, i am testing the windows version of gfclient against a simple sqlserver database, the query generated is "select something form atable where ((1=0))" so i dont have any result, where is the pb ?
<jamest> ah
<jamest> no problem
<jamest> well
<roby> jamest : as i said a few minutes ago : i don't have the source here so i am not able to actually look how the query is constructed by gfclient
<jamest> i take it this happens at startup correct?
<roby> jamest : correct
<jamest> I'm sorry but my client locked up hard so I didn't see the previous info
<jamest> what happens in the system is that when we need an empty record 
<jamest> we run a query like the one above
<jamest> and it returns a blank resultSet
<jamest> i don't recall why we did it this way
<jamest> so if it's giving you problems we can readdress the issue
<jamest> however that query looks like normal operatoin
<jamest> the form on startup typically doesn't pull the data from the table until you request a query
<jamest> instead it creates a single empty new record (via that query)
<jamest> to get it to pull your data you have to entry query mode
<jamest> then execute the query
<jamest> (or add prequery="" to the <datasource> tag in the gfd file)
<jamest> query mode works like this
<roby> jamest : ok i thought it queried at startup, it works perfect thx
<jamest> cool
<jamest> you need me to describe query mode any?
<roby> jamest : btw: what are the different "modes" available ?
<jamest> also - I seriously recommend using forms 0.1.1 over 0.1.0
<jamest> which is bundled for release 
<jamest> just not released yet :(
<jamest> www.gnuenterprise.org/~jamest/pre-release
<jamest> modes in forms are
<jamest> normal and query 
<jamest> query mode works like this
<jamest> (i'll describe keyboard usage not menu )
<derek> roby: i second, third and fourth jamest's recommendation ESPECIALLY if you plan on using designer
<derek> forms and common 0.1.0 to 0.1.1 are minor cleanups but designer 0.1.0 to 0.1.1 is almost an entirely new product :)
<jamest> and cvs designer vs designer 0.1.1 is a newer new product
<jamest> anyway 
<jamest> press f8 to entery query mode
<dsmith> jamest: There is only a .deb for Forms?
<jamest>   then fill in fields using sql92 wildcards
<derek> dsmith: my understanding is baux made debs for gnue-common, gnue-forms, gnue-designer
<derek> in unstable
<jamest>     so if i have a name field and I wanted to search for all names begining w/ J I'd put in J%
<derek> but reports have been that they dont work
<derek> jamest: is this in the user guide for forms?
<jamest>   fill as many or as few fields as you like
<jamest> derek: yes
Action: derek knows we need a user guide w/ screen shots
<jamest>   then press f9
<jamest> derek: I started a users guide
<dsmith> derek: They are 0.1.0 debs.
<derek> jamest: if its documented we should probably point him there as well
<derek> dsmith: yes, baux is here though :)
<dsmith> Would you guys be interested in texinfo manuals?
<derek> so we can tie him down and ask him about 0.1.1 debs and getting sources for deb packages
<derek> dsmith: no please
<derek> well let me rephrase that
<jamest> no one knows about the 0.1.1 so we can't blame him for not making them :)
<jamest> argh
<derek> if we dont have a manual already and you are offerring to do documentation
<jamest> i need to run
<jamest> the quick, quick ref
<derek> then please feel free to do in what you like :)
<derek> and send to us
<jamest>   f8 once : entry query mode
<jamest>    f8 again while in query mode : recall last query settings
<derek> however we prefer docbook or lyx(tex)
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<derek> i must go as well
<derek> bye bye
<jamest>   f8 yet again while in query mode : cancel query, return to normal
<jamest>   f9 : execute query
Action: derek is away: work
<jamest> i have my assistants masters defense to attend
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<jamest> but I'll be back a bit later this morning
<jamest> good timing jcater
<jamest> roby - jcater can help you as well
Action: jamest is away: I'm busy
<roby> ok thx for the tips
<ajmitch> hey jcater
<roby> i am going to play with gfclient and come back later with more questions ;-) bye
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<jcater> morning all
<roby> morning jcater, i have a question about gfclient, when i query data i have the good result number but the field (the only field of my test form) stays blank ?
<jcater> eek
<jcater> this from cvs?
<roby> no 0.1.0 windows binary
<jcater> ok
<jcater> what database are you running against?
<roby> sqlserver
<jcater> actually, did you discuss this w/jamest?
<jcater> I can read the backlogs if so
<jcater> and not duplicate questions :)
<roby> no he just explain to me the query mode !
<jcater> ok
<roby> when i add "rows" option to the datasource i randomly have one row with the data in it
<jcater> hang on... I'm having to help some ppl here at work
<roby> no prob
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<madlocke> hi
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<ivan> hi
<dneighbo> hi ivan
<ivan> i try to compile geas
<dneighbo> derek: (re: laurie are you here)
<dneighbo> ivan: ok, from cvs or else where
<ivan> from cvs
<ivan> and get an error
<reinhard> ivan: tell me the error please
<ivan> it wants -lpython2.2
<reinhard> i am just going to leave
<ivan> i don't know where is it
<reinhard> you have python 2.2 installed?
<ivan> yes
<ivan> from sources
<reinhard> find / -name "libpython*"
<dneighbo> ivan: fwiw: geas is not production ready
<dneighbo> so unless you are looking to 'develop' on geas
<reinhard> however
<reinhard> i will be back in an hour or so
<dneighbo> you might want to look into running 2 tier for now
Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away
<dneighbo> i.e. w/o application server
<ivan> thats clear
<dneighbo> ok
<dneighbo> just didnt want you to struggle with a GEAS install
<ivan> but it interesting 
<dneighbo> then be like hey you mean I can not use this with forms or reports etc...
<dneighbo> if you wish to help it along GREAT
<dneighbo> i certainly do NOT want to discourage that :)
<ivan> i don't want to try just gui building
<ivan> it's easy ;)
<ivan> but aproach to oo binding to sql - thats cool thing
<ivan> so geas droped down now ? you just build one more delphi ?
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<jamest> geas droped down now?
<jamest> I don't understand the question
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<kdog> Derek, waz up? (this is "keith" from yesterday)
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<kdog> Which Postgresql-python package is recommended for a Red Hat system?
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<madlocke> jamest ?
<dneighbo> kdog: i have only used pygresql on red hat but i didnt like it
<dneighbo> i like pyscopg a lot
<dneighbo> but have not used on redhat
<kdog> I'll see if I can find an RPM of it
<dneighbo> as far as forms is concerned it does well with both as well as 
<dneighbo> bummer that ivan ran off
<dneighbo>  :(
<dneighbo> for log 
<dneighbo> we have to meet customer demands
<dneighbo> an OO SQL adapter is a good thing
<reinhard> s/we/some of us/
<dneighbo> and we arent STOPPING GEAS development
<kdog> No such luck :-(
<dneighbo> i have yet to hear anyone here say there is no use for GEAS or that its not wanted
<kdog> BTW, my home machine is busy downloading the three Debian Potato CDs 8-)
<dneighbo> simply that we dont have the resources 'today' to put full focus on it
<dneighbo> anyhow....
<dneighbo> kdog: um let me look fo ryou
<dneighbo> jamest/jcater what is that package you guys like?
<jcater> psycopg
<dneighbo> hmmm
<dneighbo> thats the one i liked
<dneighbo> i thought you and jamest liked
<jcater> there's also pypgsql
<dneighbo> another one
<dneighbo> yeah thats it
<jcater> but I'm liking psycopg these days
Action: dneighbo hugs his psycopg
<jcater> although both are better than pygresql
<jcater> s/both are/anything is/
<kdog> No RPMs for either on rpmfind. I guess I'll have to go the source route.
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<jcater> woooohoooo!!!!
<jcater> designer is primetime linux software now
<jcater> we can bring down X
<nickr> bling
<reinhard> if ivan returns
<reinhard> while i am not looking
<reinhard> please tell him geas is not dead at all
<reinhard> it just has been on a very long holiday
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<reinhard> but we already await it's return ;)
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<kdog> It figures, I'll have to install some dev packages to compile the source.
<kdog> Should I install gcc-2.96 or gcc3-3.0.1? Recommendations?
<dneighbo> yikes
<dneighbo> what do you need gcc for?
Action: dneighbo generally avoids things requiring new versions of gcc
<dneighbo> or do you not have any gcc?
<kdog> I need a cc to compile psycog
<kdog> No, I had a different usage in mind when I built this machine and didn't
<kdog> choose the "Development" packages.
<dneighbo> ah ok
<kdog> I'm going with the older 2.96
<dneighbo> wright:/home/dneighbo/downloads/gnue# dpkg --list |grep gcc
<dneighbo> ii  gcc            2.95.4-9       The GNU C compiler.
<dneighbo> ii  gcc-2.95       2.95.4-1       The GNU C compiler.
<dneighbo> wright:/home/dneighbo/downloads/gnue# 
<dneighbo> seem to do well here
<dneighbo> so 2.96 is probably decent choice
<dneighbo> jcater are you here?
<dneighbo> or is your X still bleeding?
<dneighbo> btw: jamest had similar fun bug in forms before :)
<jamest> bug = feature
<jamest> as it only affected you
<dneighbo> um yeah thats what i said
<dneighbo> fun bug == undocumented feature
<dneighbo> Q: How do I shutdown X?
<dneighbo> ajmitch: gfcvs
<dneighbo> er A: 
<dneighbo> no ajmitch
<dneighbo> kdog: im concerned about the mysql driver
<dneighbo> i REALLY want to see if it works
<kdog> Anything I can do about that?
<dneighbo> you still cant paste the error right?
Action: dneighbo is thinking perhaps you can do
<kdog> I could fire up an IRC client on that machine and then do the cut and paste dance for feedback
<dneighbo> that would work
<dneighbo> or you can debug to a file
<dneighbo> instead of screen
<dneighbo> and email or upload the file
<kdog> Or, open up my X service and let you run a few windows :-P
<dneighbo> gfclient -d 10 --debug-file mylog.log somegfd.gfd
<dneighbo> well i cant
<dneighbo> im behind the evil firewall
<dneighbo> so you would have to turn on portforwarding and a bunch of other uglies :)
<kdog> I don't want to fiddle with my firewall either :-)
<kdog> Don't forget I'm the BOFH. My lusers don't need bandwidth ]:-)
<jamest> lol
<jamest> bad luser, no bandwidth!
<kdog> Can you say "throttle", I thought you could.
<kdog> ....what was that username again....
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<zwiskle> hi all
<kdog> One of the best little tricks of the BOFH is renaming that big core file to ~/.plan
<kdog> go ahead, finger me :-)
<jamest> hi
<zwiskle> i've a question. on debain potato there are just 1.5 python packages...
<kdog> Uhoh, hit a speedbump compiling. psycopg is complaining about needing the mx headers.
<jamest> yes?
<jamest> kdog: yes, almost all python db drivers require them :(
<zwiskle> hm. for gnuE 2.1 is suggested, right ?
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<kdog> What's the package name. I found and installed the mx rpm but that doesn't cut it.
<jamest> zwiskle: any 2.x should work
<jamest> kdog: on redhat?
<kdog> jamest: yes
<dneighbo> kdog: thats cause python has head up ass and doesnt provide good date time
<dneighbo> you will have to get the mxdatetime stuff :(
<jamest> dneighbo: you know the RH packages?
<jamest> i don't 
<dneighbo> nope you have to look at egenix site (or whatever it is)
<dneighbo> they DO make them though (or they did for 1.5.2)
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<kdog> It would take a couple of hours but I could do a net install of debian on the box :-)
<dneighbo> http://www.egenix.com/files/python/eGenix-mx-Extensions.html#Download-mxBASE
<dneighbo> *  egenix-mx-base-2.0.3-py2.1_1.src.rpm (Source RPM, src, Python 2.1.x)
<dneighbo> and
<zwiskle> debian is quite cool. ( at least if you have fat internet-access )
<dneighbo> not and
<dneighbo> er
<dneighbo> *  egenix-mx-base-2.0.3-py2.1_1.i386.rpm (Binary RPM, i386, Python 2.1.x)
<zwiskle> i found also no wxWindows 2.x for debian. just 1.x stuff.
<jamest> zwiskle: yeah, we targeted the woody release
<jamest> figured it'd be out soon
<jamest> same with the python 2.x support
<kdog> i went to egenix and installed that RPM and no dice. configure still complains of no mx headers <sigh>
<jamest> :(
<kdog> packaging is so nice, sometimes
<jamest> is there a -dev rpm?
Action: jamest hates redhat RPMs
<kdog> The RPM installed slick as snot, it's the compiling from source that is the problem
<kdog> jamest: I'm curious, why do you hate RPMs? 
<kdog> jamest: is it the design of the RPMs themselves or the way the dependencies are dealt with by the "rpm" command
<jamest> a few reasons
<jamest>   1) the odd splitting of packages that occur sometimes (this happens in .debs too)
<jamest>   2) the hideous method of upgrading - go to site, download rpms, install rpms
<jamest> for a single machine it isn't bad
<jamest> but with a department full of them it was a maintenance nightmare
<jamest> anyway any package system has something about it that sucks
<jamest> for me apt sucks less
<jamest> (it still sucks in some respects :)
<kdog> hmm. 2 is a bummer. although there is the rpmfind tool which will do all three steps at once.
<kdog> maintenance nightmare? couldn't you just keep a directory of the latest packages on a local
<kdog> server and then have each station update to that?
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<jamest> you could
<zwiskle> i think you will if you have to maintain a lot of boxes ;-)
<jamest> but it's not IMHO as friendly as apt-get
<jamest> to update a running RH box from say 5 to 6
<jamest> i had to down the machine, get the cd, do the install
<zwiskle> ..so I use debin.
<jamest> with apt
<jamest> i edit my sources.list file to point to the new version
<jamest> and do 
<jamest> apt-get update
<kdog> true, true
<jamest> apt-get dist-upgrade
<jamest> and I'm done
<jamest> like I said
<jamest> it's each their own
<jamest> I'm not an distro fanatic
<jamest> if rpm/redhat becomes easier for my needs
<kdog> my home machine just got done d/l'ing potato. I'm going to try it on my laptop.
<jamest> then I'll switch back
<jamest> if openbsd becomes easier I'll use it
<zwiskle> and if windows becomes.. hahaha
<jamest> now lets not fantisize
<jamest> I've done the same with gnome and kde
<jamest> i'll use whatever makes my job easiest
<jamest> and that flips over time 
<zwiskle> read the mail yesterday about 'searching consultings to implement GNUe' ?
<jamest> yesterday?
<zwiskle> (on the mailinglist.) or was it the day before ?
<jamest> I'm not finding it in any of my accounts
<jamest> so I guess the answer is no i didn't
<jamest> argh!
<zwiskle> [...]I am toying with the idea of offering GNUe to my
<jamest> i found the mail
<zwiskle> what do youthink ?
<jamest> that mail was from you?
<zwiskle> /me ? no.
<jamest> what do I think of someone doing this?
<jamest> i think it's doable
<jamest> I'm thinking that most of us here are willing to answer questions w/o money waved in front of us
<jamest> but
<jamest> i think some people in here might jump at the chance to make $$ on the side
<jamest> but I'm not really sure what you are asking me about 
<jamest> so I don't know if I'm answering your question
<jamest> btw - the money comment wasn't mean as an insult
Action: jamest reread what he typed and it sounded mean
<jamest> i was just saying that for some of us it isn't about the $$$
<zwiskle> is gnue now so good that you can give it to a company and sleep good at night ? 
<jamest> depends
<jcater> some of us prefer donuts to be waved in front of them
<jamest> if you wave a doughnut watch your fingers
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<zwiskle> ;-)
<jamest> I will say that I've commited to a Feb 15th rollout of a new system using only GNUe Forms
<jamest> this is a pull the plug kind of setup
<jamest> on the old system
<jamest> and I sleep ok at night 
<jamest> however
<jamest> we're still in a state of flux
<jamest> so what works today on forms may not work 6 months from now
<jamest> if we're talking about the app server
<zwiskle> i've writen an application for a small company.
<zwiskle> a small 'ERP'.
<jamest> then I'd say no
<zwiskle> but there were many nights I was sleeping bad.
<jamest> it's got lots of changes planned
<jamest> and the primary coder's are busy with "real life"
<jamest> so it's on back burner for a bit
<jamest> lol
<jamest> i've lost sleep over gnue
<jamest> but most of it's due to the fact I forget the time or can't stop thinking about a problem
<jcater> I had a bad dream the other night
<jcater> I had to reinstall Oracle
Action: jcater shivers
<zwiskle> haha
<jamest> lol
<jcater> lol?
<jcater> I was serious
<zwiskle> what about 'xforms' ?
<jcater> what about it?
Action: jcater has never had a nightmare about it
Action: jamest pictures jcaters dream.....jcater sitting there with KK all around him typing 'rm -rf /usr/local/oracle; cd mysql; make install'
<jamest> xforms?
<zwiskle> i was talking with my brother about gnue...
<zwiskle> he's somthing like an xml-guru. ( maybe )
<zwiskle> and he likes xforms
<jamest> I'm blanking on what xforms is?
Action: jamest thought it was a X widget library
<jcater> the non-free xforms widget set or the w3c xforms spec?
<jcater> fwiw: if it's the latter, we have a faq on that:
<jcater> http://www.gnu.org/projects/gnue/faq.html#GNUe-FAQ-2.20
<zwiskle> non.free ?
<zwiskle> anyway.
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<jamest> xforms is non free widget set
<jamest> for X
<jamest> lyx uses it
<Greibach> hello
<jamest> hi
<zwiskle> i was tanking about the w3c stuff.
<jamest> ah
<jamest> hey
<jamest> quick question
<jamest> over the last few days
<jamest> there have been a ton of new people in here
<jamest> are you guys reading about us somewhere
<Greibach> :-)
<jamest> or is it just random chance?
<Greibach> is the first time i enter here
<jamest> Greibach: yeah, we've had a lot of first timers
<zwiskle> i found you by random. ( /me is also ist time in this IRC )
<jcater> Greibach: how did you find out about us? Just out of curiosity?
<Greibach> no
<jamest> funny thing is that we made a new release up last week
<jcater> think of this as a "marketing survey" :)
<jamest> and never released it
<Greibach> i work for a company which makes ERPs
<jamest> yet more new people are around than after a release
<Greibach> and i see the www.gnue.org homepage
<jamest> we seem to do better we we do not release new code :)
<jamest> must not scare them away as bad
<Greibach> who are you, jamest?
<jamest> Um
<Greibach> you are one of the GNUe Developers?
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<Greibach> 4[12jamest4] 1?
<zwiskle> griebach: one of the (2 or 3)_big_ copmanys ?
<Greibach> 4[12zwiskle4] 1: i dont understand you, what's a copmanys?
<jamest> I'm the old man
<zwiskle> this is a typo. i mean company's
<jamest> The last of the original members that formed GNUe
<jamest> mainly I stand arround complaining about how things were better in the good old days
<jamest> and wonder how these young ones can code so fast :)
<Greibach> how many coders are developing GNUe?
<jamest> depends
<jamest> bad answer I know
<jamest> 2 people were working on the app server
<jamest> they are both busy now
<jamest> a few of us work on the python stuff
<jamest> we get patches from lots of people
<Greibach> app server is a nice idea
<jamest> but it's pretty sporatic
<Greibach> but i dont like screenshots i see
<jamest> for instance one of our main app server coders
<jcater> we have screenshots of the app server?
<jamest> is busy with work from the euro transition
<jamest> Greibach: the screenshots are just samples to show we work
<jamest> some people misread them are real parts of the final ERP
<Greibach> well screenshots about forms
<jamest> they are definately not that
<jamest> can you tell us what you don't like?
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<Greibach> im going to have a shower and later tell you later, ok?
<jamest> ok, I won't be around though
<Greibach> (I'm downloading all i can to see the app)
<jamest> have to go out of town after work
<jamest> in about 1 hour
<jamest> we do need better screen shots
<zwiskle> how do you plan to do the navigation between the different screens later ?
<jamest> GNUe Navigator
<jamest> right now it's a pretty basic, extremely limited app
<jamest> but unless the tiger pits lined with doughnuts trap more coders
<jamest> we're kinda short handed
<jamest> I _think_ navigator is where we'll implement roll based access control
<zwiskle> no screenshoot.
<jamest> no
<jamest> it's brand new
<jamest> all the screenshots are outdated
<zwiskle> something like sap start-menü ?
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<zwiskle> ups, ther's a 'ü' inside.. 
<zwiskle> menu
<jamest> ummmmm
<jamest> i have not seen that
<jamest> i tend to think of it like Oracles old SQL*Menu
<jamest> only w/ better features
<jamest> :)
<zwiskle> help.sap.com; there are also some screenshoots.
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<zwiskle> seems to be slow today.
<zwiskle> http://help.sap.com/saphelp_46c/helpdata/en/49/2dfe88088b11d396a9006094b9867b/content.htm
<zwiskle> .
<reinhard> zwiskle: hi
<reinhard> zwiskle: you saw my message?
<zwiskle> hi
<zwiskle> dissapeard.
<zwiskle> verschwunden
<reinhard> oh
<reinhard> i guess you are klemens zwischenbrugger?
<zwiskle> si
<reinhard> ah
<reinhard> auch vorarlberger :-)
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<zwiskle> what the heck..
<reinhard> i know you from the lugv mailing list
<zwiskle> lugv ?
<reinhard> yes
<zwiskle> haha
<reinhard> and even more
<reinhard> if your brother is stefan zwischenbrugger?
<zwiskle> world wide dorf
<zwiskle> jo.
<reinhard> hehe
<reinhard> cool
<zwiskle> do you join on thursday
<reinhard> probably
<reinhard> 99%
<reinhard> you were not at the lugv meeting in december?
<zwiskle> in dornbirn ? 
<reinhard> johanniterhof feldkirch
<zwiskle> yep
<zwiskle> you was sitting in the corner ?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> the long haired
<zwiskle> thats not long.
<reinhard> ok
<zwiskle> lustenau ?
<reinhard> yes exactly
<reinhard> where were you sitting?
<zwiskle> also long haired.
<zwiskle> http://www.linuxday.at/modules.php?set_albumName=album09&id=aaj&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
<zwiskle> the second from right (standing, starring at the screen ;-)
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> seems like i don't remember you ;)
<zwiskle> found anyway.
<reinhard> ah wait
<reinhard> you were the one with the book about linus?
<zwiskle> and python.
<reinhard> aaaaaaaaaaah
<reinhard> anyway
<reinhard> good project here :)
<zwiskle> yep.
<zwiskle> but havent installed. ( still using potato )
<reinhard> however i gotta get me some sleep now
<reinhard> zwiskle: hope to meet you again
<reinhard> both here and in real life :)
<reinhard> night all
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<Greibach> 4[12jamest4] 1?
<zwiskle> seems to be away...
<Greibach> ops
<Greibach> 4[12zwiskle4] 1: do you know if GNUe works in Win32?
<jcater> ouch... those colors hurt my eyes
<jcater> Greibach: yes, the client tools do
<jcater> GEAS currently does not
<Greibach> what can i see in Win32?
<zwiskle> should be the same.
<jcater> yes
<zwiskle> (ok, on unis wxWindwos uses GTK, on win ??? )
<jcater> well, wx uses the Win32 controls
<Greibach> GNUe Forms 0.1.0 ?
<jcater> the builtin widget set of Windows
<jcater> Greibach: yes
<jcater> we have precompiled executables for Windows on our website
<Greibach> only that? or i have to install some other files?
<jcater> if you grab the GNUe-Forms-0.1.0.exe file, that's all you need
<jcater> if you grab source, you will need wxWindows, wxPython, Python, PyXML, mxBase, and whatever database client you need
<Greibach> ok, thanks
<Greibach> .exe file is enough for now
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<jamest> um
<jamest> try the one in
<jamest> www.gnuenterprise.org/~jamest/pre-release
<dneighbo> where did kdog go?
<jamest> as they are the created but never released 0.1.1 packages
Action: dneighbo wonders if he got things installed or not (re: mx packaging)
<jamest> we need to hurry on that release, designer is almost up for a 0.1.2 release :)
<jamest> we'll lap ourselves
<jcater> jamest: or, 0.9.9 release :)
<jcater> j/k
<jcater> I need to run get my kid... bbl
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<zwiskle> sleep $very_long;
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<Greibach> 4[12jamest4] 1: which language is GNUe developed in?
<jamest> python and C
<jamest> i need to run home
<jamest> be back in about 5 to 10 minutes
<Greibach> thanks
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<drochaid> how busy does it get in here?
<drochaid> and are unknown idlers welcomed?
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<dneighbo> depends 5 - 25 people normally
<dneighbo> idle is fully welcome
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Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<drochaid> ta dneighbo
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<jamest> ack
<jamest> er
<jamest> back
<jcater> wow
<jcater> did you miss us?
<drochaid> I've just started looking at the project a couple of hours ago, so I'm still working through the faq, screenshots and docs etc
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<drochaid> I was wondering where the design method sits between "thrash it out and see" and a more formal method?
<jamest> you bet
<jamest> (that was to jcater)
<jamest> well
<jamest> drochaid: the erp tools are nothing but design at this point
<dneighbo> drochaid: we hacve found that when you are not in same office
<jamest> erp tools = erp packages
<dneighbo> its a happy medium
<dneighbo> discuss things formally for a bit 
<jamest> the tools such as forms, reports, designer, etc, etc
<dneighbo> then thrash out what was discussed
<dneighbo> see what worked what didnt and recycle
<dneighbo> for OFFICIAL packages it will be much more 'formal'
<dneighbo> for tools and unofficial packages less formal
<dneighbo> i.e. we believe in DESIGN
<dneighbo> but we also believe there is concept of OVER design
<drochaid> cool
<dneighbo> look at sourceforge for example of thousands of projects that have no code and nothing working 
<dneighbo> cause they are still 'designing'
<drochaid> yep, and plenty a product with no obvious design behind it
<dneighbo> :)
<drochaid> as I said, I'm still browseing around just now ... is there a helpdesk module being designed/planned for the future?
<dneighbo> generally we try to be honest
<dneighbo> if something is a quick hack w/ minimal design we say so :)
<drochaid> heh
<chillywilly> geas?
<chillywilly> ;P
<dneighbo> ex: i checked x in cause i had to have something for work TODAY, use it if you like, but its VERY raw
<dneighbo> and yes we have help desk stuff
<dneighbo> http://dcl.sourceforge.net
<drochaid> k
<dneighbo> is being converted to gnue archicture
<dneighbo> and enhanced in many areas
<chillywilly> why does mdean call it the GNU Public License?
<dneighbo> first chillywillycomplains peole use something other than the G GPL
<drochaid> I'll check out double choco latte properly later
<dneighbo> now he complains that when they use it they have typos
<chillywilly> not a typo
<chillywilly> it is the GNU GPL
<chillywilly> not
<chillywilly> GNU PL
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> General Public License
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<chillywilly> GNU General Public License to be even more precise
<jcater> bah
<jcater> chillywilly: were you potty trained at gunpoint?
<chillywilly> plz
<chillywilly> just stating that clling it the GNU PL is wrong
<jcater> err, or is it gnu-point?
<drochaid> clling? >:)
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> again, I wasn't bitchig about typos now was I?
Action: drochaid refrains
<jamest> drochaid: lol
<jamest> you gotta just ignore this stuff in here :)
<drochaid> heh
<chillywilly> eh?
<jamest> the constant giving of the shit to each other
<chillywilly> suuure, that what you meant wasn't it ;)
Action: chillywilly holds jcater at gnu point
<chillywilly> btw
<jcater> oh, yeah... 
<chillywilly> what the heck does
Action: jcater shoves an EULA in front of chillywilly
<chillywilly> "I choose you" mean
<chillywilly> wrt jcater.ogg
<drochaid> EULA??
Action: chillywilly sets it on fire
Action: chillywilly urinates on it
<jcater> chillywilly: it was a pokemon reference
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<chillywilly> aaaaaaah
<chillywilly> when did you record that?
<chillywilly> and why
<jcater> that isn't me
<jcater> that's da masta
<chillywilly> who is it?
<chillywilly> oh
<chillywilly> hehe
<jcater> it was a point-in-time joke
<jcater> so, I don't recall it
<chillywilly> you mean an inside joke
<jcater> situational joke, actually
<jcater> iirc there was something needing done
<jcater> and I said
<chillywilly> I'll have to ask da masta about the story then
Action: drochaid 's eyes start to cross
<jcater> <in my best pokemon voice>derek, I choose you!
<jamest> drochaid: sorry
<jcater> and he then turned around and did an ogg
<chillywilly> heheh
<jamest> sometimes the static gets high in here
<jamest> anything else you wanted to know?
<chillywilly> jamest: don;t play the innocent
<jamest> i'm not
<chillywilly> you contribute to our nonsense
<jamest> i do
<jamest> i never said...."chilly sux!  he's all static"
<chillywilly> heh, you have th ebest contribution yet
<jamest> at least not in this channel?
<jamest> :)
<drochaid> lol
<chillywilly> just go play your xbox
<jamest> :)
<jamest> actually I need to get ready to go pick up the kids
<jamest> it's a road trip
<jcater> woohoo!
<jcater> party at jamest's house
<jamest> not that long a trip
<chillywilly> we're there dude
<jcater> I'll bring the debian cd's if you'll bring the Rotel dip
<chillywilly> wtf is rotel dip?
<jcater> dude!
<jcater> I pity you if you don't know Rotel dip
<drochaid> who's bringing the S/390 or SP2 ?
<chillywilly> sorry man I'm not as hip as you are
<jamest> what scooby doo does at the pool at a holiday inn
<chillywilly> hehe
<jcater> velveeta + Rotel diced tomatos
Action: jcater doesn't get it
<chillywilly> jamest: I like your explanation better ;P
<chillywilly> rey raggy rets go for a rotel dip
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<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> man I am getting to weirdest compile errors
<chillywilly> oh I bet it is from when I delete some stuff from /usr/lib on accident
<chillywilly> doh!
<chillywilly> hrrrrm
<chillywilly> no wonder this bastard segfault
<drochaid> "yes sir, just type 'deltree windows' .. that will give you some more HD space"
<chillywilly> that's a typical BOFH method ;)
<drochaid> I still can't believe I've been called to support people that did it
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<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> hiya rdean
<rdean> heya
<rdean> trying out trillian 0.71...improved, but still not as good as x-chat :-)
<chillywilly> ok
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<chillywilly> man this makes no fucking sense
<drochaid> still probs compiling?
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<chillywilly> yes, I am getting errors on code that I know used to compile jus fine
<chillywilly> just
<drochaid> :(
<chillywilly> well screw it
<chillywilly> I am going to go out now
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> l8r ppl
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<drochaid> uhm .. bye
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<chillywilly> boo!
Action: chillywilly runs amuck trout slapping at will
Action: jcater hopes chillywilly trips over the excessive trout slime
<jcater> well, not really
<jcater> wouldn't want him to get hurt
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<derek> dseagdsrfdadghrd
<jcater> that's what I always say, too
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<jcater> dude!
<jcater> wassup?
<jamest> nuthin
<jcater> just committed some freakin stuff to cvs when I saw you get in 
<jcater> and, yes, freakin is a technical word
<jamest> what?
<jcater> well, 2 things
<jcater> 1. In designer, cross-hair selection of widgets
<jcater> (i.e., you click in an area then drag across the editor to select multiple widgets)
<jamest> cool
<jcater> 2. You can click an entry icon in the toolbar, then click in the panel and draw a box the size you want the widget, and it automatically creates the widget as that size
<jcater> plus I fixed the Shift + Click bug
<jcater> btw, I've given up on "movement" feedback
<jcater> wxPython provides no way to create a new icon without loading from a file
<jamest> ouch
<jamest> damn
<jcater> wxWindows does, but wxPython hasn't wrapped it
<jcater> but in trying to figure that out, I learned how to do the cross-hair selections :)
<jamest> :)
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--- Sat Jan 26 2002