more toys :) was hoping to have the k6 333 replace my jacked k6 350 sweet but it dont fit in my case :( jacked? he b0rked his mobo i have an old case was able to put the p200 in but i dont have old sytle (AT) keyboard so have to pick up adaptor horked that one will go to church when it gets 'rebuilt' need to get case for the k6 (hopefully under 30 bucks) whoo hooo for now have to play with the 'unstable' box to try to get it revived Action: derek wishes he had two nickels to rub together to fix these damn things Action: nickr wishes he had two nickles to rub together to buy food with. what exactly happens during a db transaction? a series of db accesses/modifications? Do they commonly model a real world transaction of some kind? isn't a transaction anything that interacts with the data? i like to think of it as 'complex' record locking er file locking i think of table level locking like normal file system locking if nickr has the file open chilly cant open it for write then page level is only the segment chilly is actually playing with is locked instead of the whole file ok etc normal file locking then there are COMPLEX locking yea where it doesnt reall 'lock' but rather buffers to memory and HOPES no one dicks w/ if someone does it does a 'dirty' read/write or such hrm dirty read? dirty write? yeah you know those darn pornographic dbs hey meeester, wanna uby some feeeelthy tables? so can all transactions be committed and rolled back? um no thats the idea behind transactions isn't it? Action: chillywilly thought a transaction was more like a series of steps well kind of if i do a transaction is an 'atomic' operation that does complex manipulations select this...update this...etc. UPDATE myTable set foo='fooey'; i cant 'roll' that back but ISOLATION levels still exist iirc then you have TRANSACTIONS where you can say somethign like START TRANSACTION then you can do UPDATE myTable set foo='fooey'; UPDATE myTable set sloo='fooey'; UPDATE myTable set doo='fooey'; COMMIT or ROLLBACK and those 'updates' dont 'really' take effect until that COMMIT yea thats where they were getting into locking is less important in that sort of inteaction, no? when you smack COMMIT does update a really happen if update c fails Action: chillywilly looks at the degrees of isolation sigh that was fruitless that machine really is dead :( Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-176.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: "Client Exiting" Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-176.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. you need more fruin. chillywilly: what list did you send things too? i dont see anything gnue-dev@gnu.org does that even exist? Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 20:02:21 -0600^M From: Daniel E Baumann ^M User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i^M To: gnue-dev@gnu.org^M Subject: [Gnue-dev] Standard For Enterprise Application Intergration^M Some links that you guys might find interesting: http://www.omg.org/technology/cwm/ http://www.cwmforum.org/ Some pretty interesting stuff on EDI/Data Warehousing/Metadata exchange. This makes me thing of GNUe Intergrator, OLAP, etc. Perhaps Derek could comment on this? Dan -- common warehouse metamodel or something wtf i must not be on that list or something for like EAI and B2B stuffs (sorry about the FD addy, but I am damn lazy ;) ) Action: chillywilly hasn't gotten around to futzing with that crud I have to resubscribe to many lists in order to shed that email address :( ra3vat (ds@195.239.204.226) joined #gnuenterprise. rofl ok im an administer of that list BUT im not subscribed to it :) heheh woops dude I just realized that there were a bunch of emails to gnue-dev and gnue @gnu.org the reason I didn't see them before is that they were not made to be mailboxes in my muttrc file wonder how much more i have missed so when I hti 'c' for mutt to go to the next mailbox with new messages it never went to the other 2 gnue lists s/hti/hit seems there was quite a bit of discussion there sigh ok well im subscribed now I'll send you my archive suppose i will hit the 'archives' ok? can you just send me that mail to derek@gnue.org dan sure when i reply i will send to gnue-dev as well alrighty done jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317777.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" * Silent Night Keyboard (Brittany Neighbors) ? who is that? your honey? Action: chillywilly got that off of: http://www.praise-fellowship.com/musicals.php my daughter :) ok she jams for a 7 year old ;P man you are old you have a 7 year old j/k are you 30 yet? um close 27 going on 28 (i think) born 7/1974 so however old that makes me caroline is same age as you her birthday is 4/11/74 my wife turned 30 though on jan 8th :) hehe phil_c (username@public1-cosh1-6-cust141.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) left irc: Connection timed out she robbed the cradle too eh? ;) yip i think? you fogrget how old you are? er, forget fil_c (username@public1-cosh1-6-cust141.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 14400 seconds Action: chillywilly does that too sometimes ;P man I have to sleep you guys have a prayer mailing list? we should get one of those Action: chillywilly should host it on his box um i havent set it up yet but yeah we will have such things :) this mornign i was to meet w/ the mayor about getting permission from city to put 802.11b on water tower to broadcast to city :) ah yea but other issues came up so didnt get to talk to him oh bummer dude you ever hear of ISO XA standard for distributed transactions? would love to see them move to 802.11b and for starters have 'intranet' for gilbert businesses and govt to use Action: chillywilly is going to have to check that out then look to providing one or two t1s and be first city in arizona to offer free internet to its citizens for as little as like 1200 a month they could be 'cutting' edge :) hey on debian i had found a real tight little application for doing foto album yea? i.e. it would scan a directory tree and build an album my debian box is dead can someone do a cache search for me and give me hint at what it might have been ? :( maybe apt-cache search photo album and paste results here? Action: derek cries that he doesnt ahve debian here ... ok danielb@obfuscation:~$ apt-cache search 'photo album' gallery - a web-based photo album written in php libroxen-photoalbum - Photo album module for the Roxen Challenger web server thats it hmmmm which one? maybe gallery? apt-cache gallery instead ok I use igal er apt-cache search gallery nickr: that might be it Action: ajmitch wonders why derek wants to index his pr0n collection igal is cool it wsa REALLY simple yeua you go to the directory, type igal and it does it yet produced good formed html pages danielb@obfuscation:~$ apt-cache search gallery gallery - a web-based photo album written in php galrey - Command line image gallery generator. It also makes thumbnails. igal - online image gallery generator ktuberling - Potato Guy for KDE konq-plugins - plugins for Konqueror, the KDE file/web/doc browser and did thumbnails too webmagick - create gallery thumbnails for website ok it was iether igal or galrey http://green.zorcat.com/~nick/data/pictures is igal output hrmm, we've got plans for 802.11b here as well derek it was igal can tell by the header :) ok you have to edit the .index_template.html to link it to other pages though or wahtevr which is mildly annoying but not too bad I wrote a script to do it hmmm I wonder where I cna get my hands on the XA spec nickr: submit it to author as patch if its mildly annoying to you its probably annoying to others as well :) well they chose simplicyt and flexibility over overfeaturedness hrrm, authors seems to be the Open Group probably means shelling out some dough :( XA? yea distributes transaction processing er, distributed i.e., load balancing using multiple databases reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.2) joined #gnuenterprise. sup reinhard mornin actually XA is just generic TP and XA+ is distributed TP http://www.dtais.mod.uk/jwid/dtais/jsp450/issue3/v3c11si.htm you might find this interesting reinhard a way to do load balancing in geas (yea, yea I know you want it to work first) ;P nickr: how do you make igal do recursion? or can you Action: derek is too lazy to read man pages right now :) you can't thats what I mean its simplistic it does one directory at a time can you 'tie' the directories together? sigh this looked too good to be true write a script yea, just write a shell script to do it i wanted to upload and do something 'quickly' when you do igal it makes some .files one of them is the template it'll use to generate the index next time you run it you add links to the other directories to it and run igal again and then do that down the tree as deep as you want thats what I did whddaya know Java uses this same model for transactions J2EE that is nickr cool Action: derek will have to rewrite igal in python someday and add -r feature :) way ahead of you. what ya'll think about Miguels comments? which ones where? about .NET .. lemme find we know what you are talking about his latest interview oh old stuff i think :) I think he's amoron ;P http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23919.html old stuff? :-P plus, I don't see Gnome shifting to C# oh it is, wonder why it just now was posted there's too much invested in a redesign and a lot fo the code is (c) FSF ok, I must sleep now have fun ppl night chillywilly (danielb@d170.as2.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: "sleep(1000);" zoyd (zoyd@202.9.131.33) joined #gnuenterprise. hello hi I just installed GNUe-Designer how do i edit $PYTHONPATH and add the new module search path ? hello zoyd ra3vat: hi :) I found GNUe very intereseting. I think you can do export PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/usr/local/gnue/.... from shell zoyd (zoyd@202.9.131.33) left irc: Remote closed the connection zoyd (zoyd@202.9.130.198) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: derek is away: zzzz zoyd: you can ignore that editing the path statement in the install iirc ok. Action: zoyd now looks for wxpython for slackware 8 bbl zoyd (zoyd@202.9.130.198) left #gnuenterprise. derek: hi drochaid (user34@pc1-kirk2-0-cust128.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: dtm is away: sleep fil_c (~username@public1-cosh1-6-cust141.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. test FunkyTrix (~Fun@62.211.176.231) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-1-ip36.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. morning at least here afternoon jamest did that snapshot work out for you? other than the lack of drag'n'drop fields and the table/view selector ... it seems to be fairly happy so far cool alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" Nick change: drochaid -> drochaid[out] Vooch (~d@adsl-63-164-88.bna.bellsouth.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan_ (~stuq@c5300-1-ip216.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. stuq_ (~stuq@c5300-4-ip195.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip36.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Nick change: stuq_ -> ToyMan alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan_ (stuq@c5300-1-ip216.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) fil_c (username@public1-cosh1-6-cust141.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 14400 seconds jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp318996.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (~dneighbo@tech-200078.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-4-ip195.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-4-ip195.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp318996.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" FunkyTrix (Fun@62.211.176.231) left irc: "Client Exiting" Nick change: drochaid[out] -> drochaid alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting" zoyd (zoyd@202.9.130.232) joined #gnuenterprise. hi .. i was trying to install GNUe-Forms and GNUe-Designer ... but it needs wxPython ... I'm running Slackware 8 and i can't find that package. I'm not able to run gfdesigner, please help. um slackware does packages? Action: jamest is not a slackware user yes it does they're simply binary tarballs. 'ImportError: No module named wxPython.wx' WOO life :) zoyd: is it still using pkgtool? or whatever it was '_ yes. :) do you have pyton installed, or is that where the problem is? yes, i have python installed and running. apologise, not typing properly ... same question, but subsitute python with wxPython that i don't have. hmm .. I see what you mean, I can only find .rpm bins for it the source looks fairly easy to compile if you're okay with that tho? where's the source ? http://www.wxpython.org/download.php#sources i wonder what's that -> http://www.linuxpackages.net/details.php?name=wxGTK and the build instructions are just a little down the page from there you need gtk and wxgtk to build wxpython zoyd_ (zoyd@202.9.130.97) joined #gnuenterprise. zoyd (zoyd@202.9.130.232) left irc: "Client Exiting" sorry, bad link here. wb zoyd_ Nick change: zoyd_ -> zoyd did you get my last two lines on wxGTK and wxPython? would i also need the wxgtk sources to compile wxpython ? yep last line: ' you need gtk and wxgtk to build wxpython' yep, that's all I said fine. Action: zoyd movese over to his browser drochaid: another thing: i got python2.0.1, hope i don't have to upgrade that. uhm ... Action: drochaid stays quiet hehe drochaid: what does GNUe recommend ? for that I'll defer to jamest, but I *think* your version of python is ok for it I'll give it a shot then :) and I'm sure he'll confirm it/attack me with a claymore in a minute ;) drochaid: btw, would i need the python sources to build wxpython ? uhm, err, uhm .. I honestly don't know if it doesn't mention it in the wxPython build docs .. I'd give it a go without the python source fine, i'll do the same then. k g/l Vooch (d@adsl-63-164-88.bna.bellsouth.net) left irc: Connection timed out reinhard (rm@62.47.45.2) left irc: "Optimist: the glass is half full. Pessimist: the glass is half empty. Engineer: the glass is double as big as it would have " zwiskle (~zwiskle@194-183-130-080.TELE.NET) joined #gnuenterprise. zoyd: python 2.0.1 should work, if not it's a bug IIRC you don't need the python sources there may be header files you require but those should have installed with python itself heh, wb jamest :) I ran python 2.0 + wxPython both from source on Slackware 8 both built no problem jcater: that sounded nice :D jamest: thanks for the confirmation. you found a packaged python for slack 8? cool and yet weird it's there on the first install cd. 2.0.1 jcater: 'weird', why ? ah, included with the slack distro? yes. oops, I missed that jcater: do you have wxpython running ? I've since replaced that machine w/debian but I did oh. guess what, i moved from debian back to slack8 recently. So, are there any serious users of GNUe ? some nice applications developed using all these beautiful tools. yes, but inhouse stuff 'inhouse' as in ? not availalbe under gpl :) i.e. custom solutions custom solutions could be gpl'ed too, isn't it ? well, they "could" be, but gpl covers redistribution and inhouse solutions typically aren't redistributed not would there be must advantage to that if its an app written around a single business' idiosyncracies also the aspect of businesses using ERP for a 'competitive edge' ... if they then make their solutions available to all, they're effectively paying for their competitors to have that competitive edge hmmmm drochaid_ (user34@pc1-kirk2-0-cust128.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hmm .. that was fun well, I was specifically referring to highly customized apps not necessarily ERP style stuff drochaid (user34@pc1-kirk2-0-cust128.ren.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) I was referring to the overall system rather than a single app Nick change: drochaid_ -> drochaid e.g., we are a magazine fundraising company... our magazine clearinghouse code is irrelevant to anyone else drochaid: but making the soltution available would still remain in the hands of the businesses using this ERP. so that is what I meant wrt "inhouse" sjc (~sjc@modem-858.aardvark.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. but like a custom contact system, or custom payables system, or custom supply/inventory system wouldn't make much sense jcater: fine i understand the thing with an application usefull for general use. zoyd: I was primarily disagreeing w/ drochaid's ERP example :) heh unfortunately, aside from our samples/ directory, all the real-world uses of forms right now are in-house stuff this is of course not the way we want it of course, early adopters are a GOOD thing :) there are going to be industry specific components, isn't it ? yes I have not played much in the packages area, but and i think the samples would significantly influence those components. jcater: indeed, but what having the apps available would do, would be to allow your competitors to see how you do it and potentially modify there own system with some improvements gained from knowledge of yours our goal is to have a set of comprehensive base packages and then have industry-specific "templates" that extend the functionality of these base packages drochaid: true enough... of course, I wouldn't put out my inhouse stuff because I'd also be afraid of our competitors seeing it HOWEVER I'd be afraid they'd laugh at our system ; ;) lol heh I used to work for IBM Global Services ... I'm *trying* to imagine convincing a client like Lloyds or ICI to release in depth info about their business logic their competitors would have a field day :) reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.2) joined #gnuenterprise. mmmm Action: drochaid phones some friends still with IBM to get them to have that conversation and record it I imagine its not as secret as most companies would like to think ;) ICJ (foobar@pD9E46FAF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Hi! hello bbiaf jcater: I've got NDAs that last for the next 20 years I am Jens Müueller I am Jens Mueller hey ICJ I wrote a few mails on the lists recently hmmm you related to reinhard mueller :) no ... ;-) args ... ok we will let you stay then :) My X-Chat does not support umlauts ... neither does mine who is that? reinhard uses .. umlauts as well an austrian yip btw: re releasing code like ERP stuff well ... a bug in the IRC protocol ... i see most people will take the 'base' then extend and not give back should support MIME ;-) which is fine, though over time i think they will realize the computer system is only a small advantage I yesterday filed a bug against the Debian package gead geas, of course that really the 'logistics' and such will be more important what is really important are different tax laws in diff. countries they have an heavy impact on accounting You have to be able to say write-off according to article xy, and the system should do it am I talking to much? no ok :-) i agree but am not too worried i see us 'templating' things by region/location to handle tax specifics and such one goal of gnue is to avoid the SAP idea of you get shipped with 80,000 tables *g* of which 60,000 of them you have to go 'configure' (ie. populate remove etc) but rather you get a small base and modules, yes then 'apply' things based on 'country, tax laws, etc etc etc) together with a goog package management, that would be fine so you might get base accounting package gl module then apply austrian tax template or what not anyone using Debian package of geas? just to confirm ... do you want more or less than 80,000 tables? [no, not my usual, uhm, humour, serious question] depends ... it's way past midnight here .. goodnight, c ya folks later. more than 80,000 possible tables with less than 1,000 normally in active use? zoyd (zoyd@202.9.130.97) left #gnuenterprise ("bye"). um drochaid: i want to avoid as ICJ says 80,000 tables of which only 1000 have ANYTHING to do with your system ahh .. hmm yes, I missed the 'but only need 1000' before instead i see gnue having the 80,000 in 'concept' but it installs like 100 to start and you 'apply' the others as you need them think of how 'apache' on debian works you get apt-get install apache then you can apg-get install php4 apt-get install php4-pgsql etc etc yep ... makes sense so you might have apt-get gnue-accounting apt-get gnue-accounting-austrian-tax apt-get gnue-accounting-euro-conversions or soemthing only wont be apt-get probably gnue-get or something similar debian:~# apt-get gnue-accounting E: Invalid operation gnue-accounting debian:~# apt-get install gnue-accounting Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done E: Couldn't find package gnue-accounting *g* lol rofl well, .debs are ok um you have to have your sources.list set to Debian will then have a Gnue policy deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian im_a_fscking_idiot main contrib non-free then you can get gnue-accounting ;) more like deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian purgatory main contrib non-free rofl are the mailing lists still in use? or is everything discussed in this channel? there are so little postings ... they are still in use but seldom used ... it goes in spurts IRC usually gives faster feedback FunkyTrix (~Fun@62.211.177.150) joined #gnuenterprise. but less broad discussions ... with fewer people yes one way to look at it mail does the big items because its syncronous communication ic [14:07] Last message repeated 1 time(s). irc is good for getting problems you are having adressed we really try to respond to both but in my case I know mail gets missed at times due to the amount I get it's much harder to not notice someone in here going "help me" "help me" [14:08] Last message repeated 1 time(s). :) you need help jamest? ;) drochaid: we're not qualified to help jamest and prescribe those kinds of drugs! Is it possible to make some sort of thing to migrate or at least dump the data from access so that it can be moved to a real database? Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. re nickr: what data? the tables? or the forms? yea, tables and contents ODBC? lol Isomer http://bugs.debian.org/geas Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left #gnuenterprise. IU think so hrm, is it possible to link one of those credit terminal things to a computer? Nick change: mdean-[idle] -> mdean what terminal to you mean? sjc (sjc@modem-858.aardvark.dialup.pol.co.uk) left irc: "Client Exiting" nickr: most of them are by default a credt processing terminal in a shop, for credit cards and these things? (in Europe: Eurocheque cards, using different functions integrated on these cards) certainly, often a card reader is integrated into the terminal reinhard (rm@62.47.45.2) left irc: "All things being equal, fat people use more soap" In Germany, a common method is to read the account number and bank routing number from the Eurocheque card, let the customer sign a direct debit agreement and then give the collected debits electronically (with formats like EDIFACT) to the company's bank. The payment is not guaranteed, so the company has to store the data in its system if the debit is being returned See http://www.zahlungsverkehr-faq.de (German language) for further details. jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat" FunkyTrix (Fun@62.211.177.150) left irc: "Client Exiting" Vooch (~d@adsl-63-164-67.bna.bellsouth.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dpm hrm hi hey nickr do you know pgsql? like, basic setup? not really I mean I've sort of done it but the authentication stuff bothers me bothers/mystifies Vooch (~d@adsl-63-164-67.bna.bellsouth.net) left #gnuenterprise. zwiskle (zwiskle@194-183-130-080.TELE.NET) left irc: Remote closed the connection Vooch (~d@adsl-63-164-67.bna.bellsouth.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Vooch (~d@adsl-63-164-67.bna.bellsouth.net) left #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@d122.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. sup my peeps Nick change: chillywilly -> chillywilly-odmg jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp318996.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. hi jeff odmg? Overload dogs - Mighty Goats? http://www.odmg.org I pruchased the book that has the standard in it and I am reading it some more now odmg = onery devil mad goats lambert (~lambert@dialup-209.246.94.7.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo: delicious.. =) whatever lambert (~lambert@dialup-209.246.94.7.Dial1.NewYork1.Level3.net) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). why do I even bother chillywilly-odmg: its da goats dats why joo botter hehe btw, I am making notes on all the goodies in my book, which I plan to make available to some GNUe hackers....ummm within limits of copyright ;) (*hint*, *hint*) copyright this beotch s/some/interested/ fil_c (~username@public1-cosh1-6-cust141.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. odmg: occult devil magic gnomes gah Nick change: chillywilly-odmg -> chillywilly ODMG: Object Data Management Group....damnit :P official dumb malarchy, greg Action: chillywilly puts a trout slapin' on nickr jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201069.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. wow dude full house what's the dilly yo? Action: chillywilly is reading about metadata and the ODL Schema repository in hopes of making a GEAS that doesn't suck Merriam-Webster defines a dilly as ...... one that is remarkable or outstanding Merriam-Webster defines yo as ...... don't you know your ebonics? sheeet I'll hafta bussa cap in yo ass an interjection used especially to call attention, to indicate attentiveness, or to express affirmation heheh ooooh, ODLMetaObjects rock! kewl a built-in design for introspection what's the remarkable call to attention, all? jcater? er? um what are you doing here? Action: jcater is not here Action: jcater is a figment of your overworked imagination he's at class scaring the cute coeds hehe only a person who worked at a university would call them "coeds" rdean (~rdean@chcgil2-ar2-053-033.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise. rdean (~rdean@chcgil2-ar2-053-033.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) left #gnuenterprise. hehe hi i have just had a meeting with our church's webmaster about redesigning the whole site and instating a beta period for some dynamic content to see how they like it a la phpnuke and phpgroupware okey dokey somkey Action: chillywilly thinks the ODMG metadata stuff is confusing ;alkjdsf Action: dtm shows chillywilly how it all works Action: chillywilly takes a hit off his crack pipe dneighbo (dneighbo@tech-200078.flinthills.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" Action: dtm presents it in a vision I see it now! it has all become clear thanks dtm sho' 'nuff friggin ODMG! aint enough to keep us down word is bond sheeeet h0h0 lallalalallaa! let's bounce hehe, mike said that when we were leaving the job site chillywilly: what d'ya expect with objects? something simple???? plz objects rock it's not that complicated I dun figured it out yay cheeleywheeley the whole point is that I don't have to design this hairy shit, but just write a Free implementation fun part will be converting all those gcds and doing a proper design there ;P hmm I don't want to be around when you tell reinhard his gcd lexer is shit it's not the lexer will provide a good base what it parses things into might change though we need some real objects not hacked up andrewm C structs ;P who here knows basic pgsql setup? like eveyone ok practically if i wanna migrate a pgsql setup to another host, do i need only install pgsql on the target and then copy over /var/lib/pgsql? coz i did that and it wont start. except I haven't done it in eons just install the cleint package you build it form source? er, from no i installed from rpms from ydl install postgresql-client or whatever they call it oh , there's a client? :} i installed postgresql and postgresql-server stand by rdean (~rdean@chcgil2-ar2-053-033.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise. first one is probably the client there's nothing called "client" rdean: hi psql is athe client chillywilly: that's what i thought. psql -h , iirc i did this: sudo sh -c "su -l postgres -c \"/usr/bin/pg_ctl -D /var/lib/pgsql/data -p /usr/bin/postmaster start\" " which is directly from the rc script that starts the server pg_ctl: Can't find /var/lib/pgsql/data/postmaster.opts.default that's what it says in response oh wait hold up just isntall the packages Nick change: rdean -> rdean-[rtcw] shouldn't be hard then you can copy the data if you need to [dtm@Datums /]$ sudo sh -c "su -l postgres -c \"/usr/bin/pg_ctl -D /var/lib/pgsql/data -p /usr/bin/postmaster start\" " that's waht it says after i simply copied /var/lib/pgsql both hosts were running pgsql 7 oh you copied the data? dtm: you're best bet is to 1) pg_dumpall the source server, 2) initdb the new system, 3) psql -e < dump.sql s/you're/your/ yea mdean: so how come what i did, didn't work? Action: chillywilly new there was a sane way what else is there to my db's er, knew how else are the db's represented on the filesystem I don't know enough of pgsql internals to give you an answer ;-) goll durnint you need da masta just that if you need to move data, use pg_dump dbname or pg_dumpall mdean knows all! or jcater might know mdean: and that results in a simple delimited text file, right? masta is postgres expert Action: jcater is da oracle man, not da postgres man ok well derek would know dtm: no, it is a sql dump masta!!! pg_dumpall > dump.sql mdean: what type of data is that pgsql creates new OIDs whenever you do initdb or add anything (which is why you never use OID for a fk ;-) it is a sql text file mmmm, steak mdean: what is "FK" fk? foreign key ah mdean: ok i have no idea what that is, or the significance of it! :) or you just use a nice object abstraction ;P everything in pg has a OID (object ID) OIDs shouldn't be done in the db, imho pg is an object db ;-) chillywilly: that only means you are putting your faith in the designer of the abstraction level not really i gotchur objects right here :) plz DONT HURT EM CHILLY. why do you use python is objects are so evil? s/is/if dtm: a fk is a relationship between two tables - usually based of the primary key of one of the tables, so it creates a "lookup" chillywilly: well, I like python's objects E/R bs mostly :P hurt me chilly! and using a scripting language's objects are different than storing your data as objects chillywilly: bah! Action: chillywilly beats nickr with a whale Action: jcater can't imagine how slowly an object database must perform it's not that slow Action: jcater hugs his pure relational play well I prefer object-relational mappings I prefer !mysql that too fil_c (username@public1-cosh1-6-cust141.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) fil_c (~username@public1-cosh1-6-cust141.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly has intimate relations with his db uh, no whoa baby you sick bastard me, i've had my heart broken too many times o2r scares me I like r2o Action: jcater likes h2o, though what the difference it is essentially the same thing bu objects, you define schema to store ht eobjects and then you put that schema in the tables of the relational db you want to add a new object you just add to the "repository" ODL == DDL + OO stuff the point being you write it once and forget about the damn db and just use objects doe sit take longer to design such a thing, you bet....but not if you just use an already made standard ;) ODMG is pretty language neutral, you even do python bindings if you wanted to I'm sick and tired of stupid acronymes go bye bye I want things named after animals heh go for it Action: chillywilly votes for 'trout' chillywilly: it's yet another layer ;P no sense in arguing w/me as you won't change my stance :) Nick change: drochaid -> drochaid[zZz] one in which will not change nite all I vote for salmon Or swordfish sweet and delicious rawr boredom. fil_c (username@public1-cosh1-6-cust141.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" ajmitch (me@p24-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) ajmitch (~me@p51-max5.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: rdean-[rtcw] -> rdean-[oksickofdying] Nick change: rdean-[oksickofdying] -> rdean chillywilly_ (~danielb@d128.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d122.as4.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home" rdean (~rdean@chcgil2-ar2-053-033.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) left #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp318996.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" dsmith (~dsmith@p23.usnyc4.stsn.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (dsmith@p23.usnyc4.stsn.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) slamb (~slamb@c1905024-a.iowact1.ia.home.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@24.92.70.39) joined #gnuenterprise. yo jcater howdy Hmm. So I think I've run into a bug. When a commit fails (a referential integrity violation), it pops up a dialog box as expected. but apparently doesn't tell the database server to rollback because anything in the future (whether I hit "commit" or "rollback" next says this libpq.Warning: NOTICE: current transaction is aborted, queries ignored until end of transaction block and that transaction block never ends what db? pypgsql what ver of forms/common? latest cvs (on Linux) ack! ok just a sec hmmm is this a custom form? or one of the samples custom any chance you have the zipcode sample installed? I could install it now well i tried to reproduce with samples/zipcode.gfd queried all existin records added one w/ a duplicate zip comited, got error changed zip commited without error Hmm. What I did was change a foreign key reference to an ID that wasn't valid. so I'm trying to figure out how it's getting tripped on your form okay. I took zipcode.gfd and removed the style="dropdown" attribute from the state field so I could point it to something invalid the commit fails, of course. same error? I change it to something valid and it still fails. yeah, same errors ok lemme test I'd guess removing a state from the db after the "validator" data source is populated would give the same error ok i can reproduce cool nick chillywilly Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly doh that's the scary part jamest, that you can reproduce ;P ooh, ouch Action: jcater acts as a proxy jamest and troutslaps chillywilly heh, what's a matta no witty come backs? Action: chillywilly smacks jcater with a crappie crappy? gah get of the city some day ;P you are crappy a crappie is a type of pan fish I've almost never lived in the city I lived for 1 year in portland, and 2 years here Portland isn't really a 'city' you should know what a crappie is then Action: chillywilly was in portland when he was very littlw er, little i've heard the name, but maybe its just a midwest crazyfish Crappie \Crap"pie\ (kr?p"p?), n. (Zo["o]l.) A kind of fresh-water bass of the genus {Pomoxys}, found in the rivers of the Southern United States and Mississippi valley. There are several species. [Written also {croppie}.] yea midwest crazyfish crappie n 1: small sunfishes of the genus Pomoxis of central United States rivers 2: small sunfishes of central United States rivers it's a very mild-tasking, tender fish err, tasting my favorite freshwater fish tasking hehe Action: jcater has an excellent recipe for deep-fried battered crappie and beer hushpuppies it's a local favorite well being a hick does have its advantages ;P yip Yea, you get to merry that sexy sister haha nah, dude not past the first cousin alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. wouldn't like the first humans have to inbreed to spread the species? naw, man why else would there be apes? apes! gah evolution is the biggest joke (the mail software too ;P) I don't want to get into it because its a really irritating argument. aren't all chillywilly-induced arguments irritating? yes. I avoid them. Always. Action: mdean pets his Evolution 1.0.1 window... fuck off yeesh, touchy there chillywilly: wrong window feel it's supple contours...touch the inbox....it is there for you to touch... do you suppose robots would enjoy listening to music? mdean: mm sexy just a little SGC2C reference ;-) Gunfighter{Ni} (GunAndGiz@ip68-10-44-170.rn.hr.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: Gunfighter{Ni} -> stbain jcater: whatever dawn is raging oooh yea dude argh! what? that commit bug is pypgsql dependent oh do you not normally use pypgql, out of curiosity? um it's our primary windows driver however if you run it thru and duplicate a zip she'll recover unique key error *nod* do a ref integ violation she'll not recove they call the exact same error routines on our end in fact all our postgresql drivers use the same base class so that psycopg works w/ same code that pypgsql dies on heh. yeah, I downloaded psycopg...it works. so jamest now that I know python how can I help? Action: slamb should learn Python, too. bwahahahaha er, i mean you want to help....that's wonderfull. I still have the project assignment docs I guess I should actually sign them and mail them back yip that's a prereq. to getting cvs write don't do it, it is a trap ;P masta will own you then stbain: what you interested in? well... hrmmm ok I don't know if you remember my background or not I've been programming for quite some time i can't remember if i are supper mostly small stuff ate some scripts here and there a little gui however, I am now finishing up my CS degree at accis.edu I wanted to contribute a while back to GNUe, but didn't know Python now I do we dont discuss java here. [23:23] Last message repeated 2 time(s). sorry uhhh ok hit wrong button java is satan! what's the current status of the project? everything is satan! Action: derek is back (gone 20:53:54) I mean, can I walk into my new job and replace QAD w/ GNUe? sure, but it might not remain your job for long ;) Action: ajmitch ducks haha ajmitch: better put on your anti-crappie sheild that's what I thought stbain: but i know nothing I've been trying to read the mailing list from what I gather, the parts are all there, but they don't fit together very well right now stbain: i'm not a GNUe-affiliated coder or anythin stbain: depends on what QAD is :) the architecture is highly usable www.qad.com in 2 tier mode heh n tier doesnt play nicely yet forms on top of a database? and applications arent 'shrinkwrapped' but several people use for production stuff so you don't have... say... a base accounting module ready for download? correct QAD is manufacturing ERP on steroids funny but if you wanted to use gnue to write a base accounting module you could probably do so they use a buzzword mission statement right on their frontpage "QAD Delivers Customer Value Through Collaborative Commerce for Manufacturers" 'qad delivers customer value' LOL blah hehe I hate that hehe hrmmm is it GEAS that needs work or the hooks? or both both :/ the hooks were being worked on and there was a hurdle jamest ran into with corba that needs fixing and of course as we put it to more and more use we see more and more inadequecies :) doh as one always finds in course of such things stbain: you could use GEAS today inadequecies?!?!?! if you wanted to write your own front ends to it just not with the latest forms right but its not 'production' quality we should call them incomplete feature sets :) LOL i just want to make sure im not saying geas doesnt do anything as it does jamest is jamest!billg@llama.microsoft.com j/k It runs but it does sound like something slick willy would say heh Action: chillywilly pets poor geas i don't see it do anything though hrmmm I still love you don't listen to them geas juts needs more lovin' probably a bit more codin' too ummm, that's how it likes it Action: nickr listens to chillywilly sing 'lovin you' to GEAS Action: derek jaunts off for a bit so... the question is what needs the most work? wow um all of it what is in the most need of an entry-to-mid level programmer? i'd say pick your poison loooooovin yooooooou that's a weak answer I know oo oo o o oo o ooooooooooo is easy cause your beautiful la la la laaaa alaaaaaa if I were beautifull like you stbain: you more interested in tools, apps? la la la laaaa laaaaaaaaa oo oo o o oo o ooooooooooo stbain: I've got some minion job openings.. well... in the long run, I'm interested in making millions installing this to replace every ERP package in my region but... sounds like a plan money is evil give all your money to the poor for the mean time, it would be nice to have a system I can look at and say, "You know what? I can replace that monster AIX box w/ one little Linux PC that will run your entire operation." ;P I need money to support this eating habit I have or three boxes ;) Its horrible I know, but food is so addictive DB, GEAS, Terminal Server bah so nickr, what are your minion tasks? stbain: but are you more into final apps made w/ the tools or working on the tools themselves jamest: apps but I want to know the ins and outs of the tools to tools == means to end(apps) yeeeeehaw! that was a bug in our system raid kill bugs dead kills stbain: well there appears to be a demand for this document management system that I was working on hehe slaughter the goat! stbain: I need several minions to help me design and build it that's funny... I work for a company that offers document management systems heheh I'd love to help you so that after I quit I can shove it up their arse whoops... did I say that outloud? hehe getting late hahaha groggy ;) so... document management system build w/ 2-tier Forms/Database? No there's that or is this a different projecT? forms wouldn't work good for it you could use forms as a sort of front end to various parts of it web frontend to GEAS w/ GEAS providing the workflow? No ok... gimme the punchline, because I'm running out of ideas here we could use some good demo apps of forms Zope? showing the various features that are more realistic than we have now jamest: In the near future I'm doing a little personnel app thing and these forms could be useful in real life things as a test of various things stbain: Hah. Zope. Haha. stbain: http://green.zorcat.com/~nick/proj/document-store/gnue/spec/Document-Store/documentstorespec.html um la nickr: I take it you don't like Zope I have nothing against zope. hrmmm looks interesting well this is the lowest layer, I need minions to help update this design and develope the other layers. Or motivation. :) stbain: if you could help nickr that'd be cool sounds like a plan IIRC nickr you were going to do under GNUe anyway is that right? I'll sign the assignment forms tonight and get them in the mail (so I can get my cool GNU stickers) jamest: tThat was the plan nickr: you considered an imaging interface to go w/ that? that way you can have a document imaging and management architecture under one roof stbain: I had envisioned having any 'object' able to be managed under the same storegae system stbain: if my imaging you mean simply scanning things stbain: if yoeu mean OCR that'd be fine, another input method. combination of both you could use the instances with special identifiers to have both the scanned document and the OCR'd result yah or we can work on overloading instances with different mime types with the same identifier well, I'm thinking about the end-game here... many of the doc imaging/doc mgmt systems we install are for HR departments yea they are simply document repositories for the immense amount of paperwork companies have to process to keep up w/ their hundreds of employees if they want to look up my docs, they punch in my SSN and scroll through the descriptions they would _love_ to have it integrated right into their ERP software alas... no dice Well, that'd be a metadata extension, witha library interface. right The Library that is and all good document management systems have that extension at least, the ones we sell do yea. Its pretty trivial, really. the key is making it abstract right we sell lexign products where I work now info @ www.lexign.com pretty slick stuff, but stuck in a Windows world yea my general plan for DocuSTore and whatever it mutates into wrt management is platform nutrality through RPC XML-RPC? >:) no, the plan is to use gnurpc (whatever its called) which is a wrapper for any rpc system you want to use the original design uses CORBA any code yet? No hehe Still design stage ok sounds like fun um something to cut my teeth on there are some early rough stabs at stuff in the document-store/grawk directory you might be able to use a fair amout of common jamest: this has been recommended to me particlularly database abstraction stuff --- Tue Feb 5 2002