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#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<neilt> hello all
<neilt> reinhard: you around?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> morning neilt
<neilt> how are you
<neilt> did you ever see the article we wrote
<reinhard> fine thanks
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> i got my free copy of the magazine
<reinhard> you didn't?
<neilt> I never received my free copy
<neilt> :(
<reinhard> do i have your postal adress somewhere?
<neilt> not my new one
<reinhard> i could make a copy for you
<neilt> is there an electronic version on the web someplace
<reinhard> not that i know of
<neilt> can you scan a copy and email it to me?
<reinhard> please don't laugh
<reinhard> i don't have a scanner
<neilt> ok,
<neilt> let me contact the publisher and let them know, maybe they can send another copy
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> if it doesn't work out let me know
<neilt> I will
<neilt> i would just like to have an original copy
<neilt> if possible
<reinhard> sure
<neilt> not that original copy makes any sense
<reinhard> lol
<neilt> but you know what I mean
<neilt> i hoipe
<reinhard> yep:)
<neilt> hope
<reinhard> how's the progress in your new job?
<neilt> doing well
<reinhard> everything's ok?
<neilt> so far
<neilt> we are installing new CRM app
<neilt> in 8 weeks
<neilt> so the pace is hecktic
<reinhard> oh
<reinhard> just got your mail
<reinhard> can i consider it obsolete? :)
<neilt> yes
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<AnDarkon> Would a Time & Attendance system be a good addition to GNUE?
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<reinhard> AnDarkon: you might want to wait a bit until derek wakes up
<reinhard> he should be here soon
<AnDarkon> I've got all day :-)
<reinhard> good :)
<jamest> :)
<AnDarkon> I spent 11 years at Kaba Benzing America (formerly Applied Automation Techniques) and it's been six months since I last worked for them. so the non-compete clause is expired. Onward with an Open Source T&A! :-)
<neilt> non-compete expiring does not mean that you can use confidential or proprietary material
<AnDarkon> Of course not
<neilt> good
<AnDarkon> no trade secrets in my design
<neilt> cool
<AnDarkon> not even their terminology where it deviates from the industry standard
<AnDarkon> only what I created in my head
<neilt> cant wait
<AnDarkon> what would be an ideal design medium? I was thinking of UML
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<jamest> AnDarkon: UML is ok
<jamest> alot of us use text files
<jamest> and give general overview
<AnDarkon> Ok
<AnDarkon> if I may ask, what inspired you guys to develop an ERP system?
<AnDarkon> jamest: You would be the obelisk creator?
<neilt> seemed like a good idea at the time :)
<AnDarkon> :-)
<reinhard> neilt: and i hope it still seems like a good idea :)
<jamest> AnDarkon: yip
<AnDarkon> it's a good idea with me; all this knowledge and shop floor experience isn't going to be wasted. I hate wasted knowledge :-)
<neilt> of course it still seems like a good idea
<neilt> but it is a lot of work also
<AnDarkon> before the T&A stuff, I did material production tracking software; Southwire and Standard Garment
<AnDarkon> neilt: if you're having fun, would it be ``work''?
<neilt> will we have a lot of people interested, but when it comes to committing time it is hard to come by for a lot of people (including me right now)
<AnDarkon> Right at this minute, I'm between contracts and Michigan isn't a good place to be when you're looking for a job
<AnDarkon> but yes, when I'm working elsewhere, I'd have probably 2 or 3 hours a day at the most to spend on KOMP (name for my T&A system)
<neilt> i used to be from chicago
<neilt> not its wash dc
<neilt> s/not/now/
<AnDarkon> neilt: then do you know Andrews Office Supply?
<AnDarkon> I come from Wisconsin, spent 3 years in DC and then 17 years in Miami
<neilt> why did you ever leave miami
<neilt> dont know andrews, just moved here
<neilt> dc that is
<AnDarkon> Miami isn't a good place to raise kids when you're a country bumpkin :-)
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<AnDarkon> ah, missed!
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<jbailey> t&a system?
<jbailey> You have a system for getting t&a? =)
<AnDarkon> Back
<AnDarkon> sorry... twas feeding time around here
<AnDarkon> jbailey: on paper and in my head, yes
<AnDarkon> I see there is (or will be) a CRM module
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<AnDarkon> Hello Alex
<alexey> Hi
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<dneighbo> jcater where is that 'patch' release for common?
<dneighbo> to fix the postgres 'authentication' ;)
<dneighbo> dont make me start treating you all like i treat the kids....
<dneighbo> http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/photos/people/7.html
<dneighbo> for those that think im only 'kidding' about chaining up the coders around here ;)
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<dneighbo> hi Brew 
<jamest> the patch release isn't ready yet
<jamest> btw - I remember someone making us wait on the patch until db2 support was better
<jamest> :)
<jamest> see what happens when we wait 
<jcater> patch release?
<jcater> who said anything about a patch release?
<jcater> hehe
<jcater> cute pictures
<jcater> for all those other ppl looking at derek's picture
<jcater> I'm the one in red
<jcater> jamest is the one w/long blonde hair
<dneighbo> roflmao
Action: jcater didn't want anyone thinking I wore pink :)
<dneighbo> please note that the cage on top is still empty
<dneighbo> i.e. gnue is still gladly accepting new contributors
<drochaid> T minus 23 and counting :)
<drochaid> lo all
<dneighbo> where be the T&A guy
<dneighbo> um that sounded crass, where is the time and attendance fellow?
<reinhard> drochaid: feasgar math (sp?)
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<drochaid> spot on reinhard, and good evening to you too :)
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<dneighbo> guter tag herr meuller
<dneighbo> or is it already nacht there?
<dneighbo> reinhard what does Ziegegeliebter mean?
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<dneighbo> whoo hoo for first time gnue.org broke over 500,000 hits in a month 
<dneighbo> and crushed the 50,000 in a day mark getting like 67,000 on our last release cycle
<ajmitch> excellent
<dneighbo> not that 'hits' matter in sense of we have nothign to sell
<dneighbo> but at least people are recognize the project
<ajmitch> in november there was one day with > 80000 hits
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<neil-away> later all
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<chillywilly> that'll teach her to be a bitch to me
<dneighbo> rofl
<jcater> woman being a bitch?
<jcater> that's like trying to stop a dog from barking
<chillywilly> aaah
<chillywilly> the network is so quiet
Action: drochaid jumps up and down in the corner waving his hands
<dneighbo> i have heard of netfilter
<dneighbo> now we hae 'bitchfilter'
<jamest> l8r
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<dneighbo> hmmm first netfilter now bitchfilter
<dneighbo> linux is truly amazing
<chillywilly> :D
<jcater> now, if they only had billfilter
<dneighbo> um billfilter would just equal 'late' bill payments
<chillywilly> here's my bitch filter
<chillywilly> # fuck off corie
<chillywilly> iptables -A INPUT -s 192.168.1.3 -j LOG --log-level 5
<chillywilly> iptables -A INPUT -s 192.168.1.3 -j DROP
<dneighbo> has she noticed?
<chillywilly> yep
<dneighbo> it woudl be better to NOT delay the packets
<dneighbo> er better yet
<dneighbo> drop every 10th packet
<chillywilly> heheh
<dneighbo> and delay all other packets by like 30 seconds
<dneighbo> so she still has 'net access' but its really horribly slow
<chillywilly> she's trying to download stuff via imesh
<dneighbo> i.e. its less OBVIOUS you are screwing with her that way
<dneighbo> rather than just droping all her packets
<dneighbo> jcater: you on sap-db list?
<chillywilly> ok, I am going to be nice and turn it back on now
<chillywilly> ;P
<dneighbo> ;)
<chillywilly> well now I am lagged
<chillywilly> and she's downloading an mp3 that I alredy have
<chillywilly> dumb ass
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<chillywilly> woops
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<AnDarkon> Hi eva
<eva> hi Darkon
<dneighbo> hi eva hi AnDarkon 
<eva> is anybody speaking about gnuenterprise or am i on the wrong channel?
<dneighbo> right channel
<AnDarkon> As far as I know, it's about GNU Enterprise as in www.gnuenterprise.org
<dneighbo> chillywilly time to put up squid and do caching :)
<AnDarkon> ah and I've been sitting here, politely waiting for someone to come in so I can discuss the T&A possibility
<dneighbo> eva did you have questions about gnuenterprise?
<dneighbo> im here :)
<dneighbo> you were probably waiting on me
<dneighbo> i just missed you this morning iirc
Action: dneighbo is derek
<AnDarkon> ah! :-)
<eva> yes I want to know if i can contribute to the finance module
<AnDarkon> Hello derek
<AnDarkon> but I'll let eva go first :-D
<eva> Thanks anDarkon very polite ;-)
<AnDarkon> After you :-)
<dneighbo> can you contribute? absolutely ;)
<dneighbo> we tell anyone interested in contributing the best first steps are to download and install the software
<eva> i was working on SAP for the last 8 years, maybe i can help
<dneighbo> to get a feel for what stage it is at
Action: chillywilly reads ODMG book
<dneighbo> then if you are not scared away by then, you will need to fill out copyright assignment to Free Software Foundation to contribute code
<dneighbo> there are of course many ways to 'contribute'
<eva> I think i could more contribuate in concepts
<dneighbo> simply using the software is helpful :)
<dneighbo> submitting bugs even better
<dneighbo> documenting also useful :) etc etc
<dneighbo> eva: if you contribute in more than a idea sense (i.e. more formal design specs) we would require that you submit copyright assignment/disclaimer
<dneighbo> have you looked at the current package/module docs we have to date?
<dneighbo> that would also be a good starting point
<AnDarkon> SAP specifications in the way of work orders, projects, accounts, etc would be most useful as well
<dneighbo> basically in a nutshell our framework is very usable in 2 tier mode
<chillywilly> gah, I wish emacs would format this fugly html for me
<dneighbo> our n-tier mode is still coming of age so to speak
<chillywilly> I will fix that ;)
<dneighbo> the packages/modules have some documentation/specification but they are not yet implemented
<dneighbo> sounds as if your willingness to contribute would be in getting packages/modules made
<dneighbo> specificially financial package
<dneighbo> am i correct?
<dneighbo> if so please download and install software and read the current docs on what package proposals are there
<dneighbo> and we can go from tehre
<dneighbo> sound fair?
<eva> yes. It is one of the package i know best
<dneighbo> reinhard: SAP specs we dont want them
<dneighbo> er re: not reinhard 
<chillywilly> did I ever mention that I hate doing html?
<eva> But there are very big differences between finance in America and in Europe. I know the european way
Action: chillywilly grumbles
<dneighbo> mainly the issue is we can not taint ourselves w/ any trade secrets, patents etc
<AnDarkon> I was speaking of the public specs :-)
<dneighbo> eva: i dont think the differences are necessarily that big
<AnDarkon> but yes, I agree... no TS stuff
<dneighbo> AnDarkon : even public specs you have to be careful of because sometimes even though they are public are patented
<dneighbo> or have restrictions :(
<AnDarkon> dneighbo: Understood.
<dneighbo> hopefully one of the benefits of gnue will be that specs will be put in open
<dneighbo> so if you say 'i hate gnue' gnue still might offer you valuable information to make your software
<dneighbo> etc etc etc
<dneighbo> AnDarkon so tell me more about the t&a module
<dneighbo> or what are you thinking/
<dneighbo> you have something and you want to contribute it to gnue?
<AnDarkon> yes and yes
<dneighbo> you have somethign and want to partner with gnue?
<dneighbo> you want to write t&a in gnue...
<AnDarkon> LOL
<dneighbo> etc..i didnt catch the whole back log so i dont know exactly the specifics :)
<dneighbo> eva: i hope i answered your questions if not please let me know
<AnDarkon> it's really irrelevant whether GNUE could use my T&A or not; I'm designing it as we speak. but if you could use it, then I could try my best to make it so it doesn't require any (or very little) rewriting to work under GNUE
<chillywilly> t&a == tits and ass?
<AnDarkon> I do fully intend to have it stand-alone in any case
<chillywilly> ;P
<AnDarkon> T&A = Time & Attendance
<dneighbo> time and attendance
<AnDarkon> with labor data collection yet to come
<AnDarkon> I spent 11 years at Kaba Benzing America
<dneighbo> AnDarkon my question would be since its not written
<dneighbo> would you be willing to write it in the gnue framework
<AnDarkon> formerly Applied Automation Techniques
<AnDarkon> From what I've been able to gather of the documentation, the UI and the DB ends are abstracted from the core functions
<AnDarkon> and if the premises are correct, then yes, I'd like to write it to GNUE guidelines/framework
<dneighbo> if you are willing to write with the framework we would love to put under the gnue umbrella and we would make templates and such to make it fit with other packages thusly still letting it stand alone as well
<dneighbo> ok
<AnDarkon> I'm writing up the design notes and doing the diagrams
<AnDarkon> I started the 1st of this month, that was the day after my non-compete clause expired
<AnDarkon> and I assure you... no trade secrets
<dneighbo> as if you dont write it in gnue framework certainly we would be willing to partner with you and try to get interfaces to gnue, but the end goal would be to have a system that is all same framework so when the gnue t&a modules came out they would be suggested over a non gnue based t&a system
<dneighbo> if that makes sense
<AnDarkon> I do have one question though... if I'm the author of a specific algorithm, who does it belong to?
<dneighbo> you
<dneighbo> we require copyright assignment to FSF
<dneighbo> but its DUAL copyright
<AnDarkon> Even when I was in hire with KBA at the time?
<dneighbo> so every line of code you write you fully own
<AnDarkon> I decided on GPL so it's not a problem :-) and have already spent some time on the FSF copyright issue; no reservations whatsoever
<dneighbo> ah if you were with company at time you wrote it, then it would depend on law of country you were working in and agreements with that company
<AnDarkon> Hmmm, then it won't be a problem
<dneighbo> in the states if you sign nothing
<dneighbo> generally work you do on the 'clock' belongs to the employer
<dneighbo> work you do at home belongs to you
<AnDarkon> my design borrows nothing from their system (their system sucked anyway :-)
<dneighbo> but many employers make you sign something that says ANYTHING you do belongs to them
<AnDarkon> I'll secure a copyright release from my current employer
<dneighbo> yes that is the disclaimer :)
<AnDarkon> disclaimer :-)
<dneighbo> we have all contributors assign copyright and any party w/ interest fill out a disclaimer
<dneighbo> really its amazing how smooth such things have been
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<dneighbo> we have global disclaimer from verizon which really suprised me
<dneighbo> the ONLY issue we have had was with motorola some folks there were interested in contributing
<AnDarkon> really?!
<dneighbo> and they got approval to use at work there and everything
<dneighbo> BUT
<AnDarkon> That's surprising to get a blanket disclaimer
Action: AnDarkon winces at the `BUT'
<dneighbo> the lawyers wouldnt fill out paper work to let them get code changes to us :(
<dneighbo> the funny thing is they had NO ISSUE at all about the copyright
<AnDarkon> You gotta love lawyers -sigh-
<dneighbo> it was the wording about patents that freaked them out
<AnDarkon> intelligence and maturity, sadly, doesn't go with the expertise of practicing law
<dneighbo> btw: this is why i PERSONALLY believe miguel moved to the MIT license for Intel
<dneighbo> is because intel didnt like the patent lingo in the LGPL
<AnDarkon> Miguel?
<AnDarkon> I remember reading something about that on Slashdot...
<dneighbo> er miguel of gnome (for mono class libraries)
<AnDarkon> Right
<AnDarkon> So... I've got several pages to type up and diagram
<dneighbo> for a long time i think intel refused to do kernel work because of this too :)
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<AnDarkon> Their loss
<dneighbo> i forget how they solved that issue but i believe they did
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<dneighbo> what are you doing your docs in AnDarkon ?
Action: dneighbo was looking at throwing together cheesy hr module
<nickr>  wouldn't T&A relate to dcl/phpgw?
Action: dneighbo thinks maybe worth looking at
<dneighbo> nickr kind of
<dneighbo> thats why im interested some what
<dneighbo> dcl is great for cost based accounting time keeping (er it will be)
<AnDarkon> I'm doing the docs in TeX and the diagrams in UML
<AnDarkon> what's DCL?
<dneighbo> http://dcl.sourceforge.net
<AnDarkon> looking now
<dneighbo> it is in process of moving under the gnue umbrella
<dneighbo> and being transformed into the gnue framework
<nickr> gnue, the ten-headed hydra of free software
<dneighbo> it is much more than classic time keeping
<nickr> No, its more like The Blob!
<dneighbo> it is really more like job costing time keeping
<dneighbo> this is where i really need to sit and ponder dependencies and templates etc
<nickr> I thought it was project management and issue tracking
<dneighbo> it does that too
<dneighbo> but project management in this sense is kind of like capturing peoples time
<dneighbo> which is what job costing time systems do
<nickr> yea
<dneighbo> i.e. dcl would not be good for keeping time in a non cost based accounting arena
<AnDarkon> Doesn't look like it provides real-time tracking of punches and tasks
<dneighbo> but with some work it could be good at it for cost based accounting
<dneighbo> AnDarkon corrected
<dneighbo> er correct
<nickr> DCL strikes me as more of a dynamic grouping system than a more HR centric kind of thing
<dneighbo> it was initially a work order system
<dneighbo> then it had help desk kind of added
<AnDarkon> I did just a quick skim so please correct me if I'm wrong, it doesn't provide gross payroll calculations, general ledger cross-referencing
<dneighbo> however at work we are moving towards more cost based accounting
<nickr> dneighbo: are all these parts going to be disintegrated?
<dneighbo> AnDarkon very correct
<AnDarkon> nor regular/over/doubletime calculations
<AnDarkon> Looks like I'll be covering the gaps :-)
<dneighbo> AnDarkon : precisely
<dneighbo> i see payroll as a modules
<dneighbo> er module
<AnDarkon> the name of my system is called KOMP for the moment...
<dneighbo> time keeping as a module
<dneighbo> etc etc
<dneighbo> i think of dcl in some ways as cost based time keeping
<dneighbo> that would feed time into payroll
<AnDarkon> ideally, KOMP is an engine and handles inputs/outputs from clients and front-ends to MRP/ERP systems
<dneighbo> or into a traditional time keeping system
<AnDarkon> all in real-time fashion, along with p2p support so that the timeclocks themselves can be 90% turnkey and scale up with the business
<AnDarkon> of course small businesses don't need all of the ERP features
<dneighbo> nickr getting things logically in my brain is why i love these scenarios :)
<nickr> is it a dramatic new paradigm for cost analysis?
<AnDarkon> I doubt it :-)
<dneighbo> nickr example how i use dcl is 3 fold
<dneighbo> a. it helps me understand my own work load
<nickr> dneighbo: dcl has a lot of logical componants that can be spread into gnue
<dneighbo> b. it helps me communicate to teh management where we sit (project mangement)
<dneighbo> c. since EVERYTHING i do i log in dcl (even now meetings and such)
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<dneighbo> it doesnt make sense for me to keep a SEPARATE time sheet
<dneighbo> when a report from dcl would tell me the same thing
<dneighbo> does that make sense?
<AnDarkon> KOMP could be a complement to DCL, in support of real-time tracking, ie shop floors
<dneighbo> so i spend 5 hours on SR # 10
<dneighbo> and 3 hours on SR # 12
<dneighbo> maybe the another hour on a non real task
<dneighbo> well i have an SR #100
<dneighbo> that is for 'misc'
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<dneighbo> so i would spend an hour on it
<AnDarkon> dneighbo: KOMP is more for blue-collar work tracking than white (yours) :-)
<dneighbo> so i could get a report that says for my day
<dneighbo> er bah
<jcater> yeah, dcl is great, but only for a minority of time-tracking tasks
<dneighbo> anyhow the reporting side and time keeping is still nt fully there for that
<dneighbo> in dcl
<jcater> I wouldn't keep up w/my hourly ppl's pay w/it :)
<dneighbo> but with a little work it COULD be
<jcater> ah
<jcater> true
Action: jcater walked in during the middle of a conversation, so tune me out :)
<dneighbo> jcater i think in manufacturing, white collar, and other activity based environments it would work with some work :)
<dneighbo> for things like mcdonald employee time keeping
<dneighbo> no its overkill :)
<dneighbo> as you want to clock in clock out
<dneighbo> and thats all
<dneighbo> my point being though that i see time storage for a payroll level as being different
<AnDarkon> dneighbo: then what happens when you're assigned the crew leader? You get a pay differental
<dneighbo> so you might have time keeping that has simpler interface
<dneighbo> for simpler setups
<AnDarkon> the pay differental comes into effect when the manager goes home for the day and ends when you punch out
<dneighbo> well dcl would actually be good if you do more than one task
<dneighbo> especially if your rate varies by task
<AnDarkon> it's the subleties that KOMP would encompass
<dneighbo> im not saying dcl is a great 'timekeeping system'
<AnDarkon> I don't see where DCL can handle asynchronious tasks?
<AnDarkon> as in `overlapping'
<dneighbo> but i will say our organization spent nearlly a million dollars for something that was much cheesier
<AnDarkon> dneighbo: probably AutoTime ;-)
<dneighbo> for activity based costing
<dneighbo> eJamis
<dneighbo> i think is the name of it
<AnDarkon> never heard of it
<AnDarkon> Kronos and AutoTime are big names
<dneighbo> AnDarkon dcl is not a punch card type of application
<AnDarkon> Right, that's what I gathered
<dneighbo> in respect of what you are thinking
<nickr> I don't get enough email. What gnue lists should I subscribe to?
<dneighbo> and im not claiming it to be :)
<AnDarkon> KOMP will be able to handle bundled work orders
<dneighbo> as stated i think there are gaps :)
<AnDarkon> an example: a company runs its production lines based on orders from its buyers
<dneighbo> for my work i would die if i had to have real time clock
dres__ (~dres@4.18.171.42) got lost in the net-split.
<dneighbo> as i forget to switch what im doing so its easier to enter the ranges of time and i dont care WHAT hours of day i logged the time
<AnDarkon> and sometimes two or three orders are for the same exact widget, so instead of running three orders in sequence, the employee can run them all at the same time and let KOMP subdivide the elapsed time
<dneighbo> but for some scenarios these things are VERY important
<dneighbo> (real time and time of work)
<AnDarkon> dneighbo: the white-collar mindset :-)
<dneighbo> im not saying i have blinders
<AnDarkon> I didn't imply either
<dneighbo> im simply saying there are more than one type of time keeping :)
<AnDarkon> Indeed, there is more than one type and more than one way
<dneighbo> and it sounds like KOMP might be good fill for dcl and vice versa
<AnDarkon> cost-based, gross pay calculated, repetitive work, overhead, indirect, direct... it just goes on
<dneighbo> i would suggest....
Action: AnDarkon listens
Nick change: drochaid -> drochaid[zZz]
<dneighbo> maybe using lyx for your documentation (as its similar to tex) and one of the approved gnue doc formats
<nickr> maybe there is needed some sort of time storage interchange, that dcl and other things feed into
<dneighbo> then grabbing gnue and installing it, see if its somethign you woudl consider using to write KOMP in
<chillywilly> plz don't suggest lyx
<nickr> time reporting object
Action: chillywilly rolls his eyes
<AnDarkon> TeX is fine
<nickr> hrm
<jcater> chillywilly: don't start, please!
<AnDarkon> I was going to use Python
<nickr> everyone must use Docbook XML
Action: AnDarkon makes a note
<AnDarkon> what about the diagrams?
<nickr> Heh. I was just kidding. Actually I think DocBook SGML was the suggested format
<chillywilly> jcater: then tell ppl not to suggest lyx
<AnDarkon> ah, I'll have to get back to you. The family is sitting down to dinner (I'm the father here)
<nickr> I always do diagrams in Dia
<AnDarkon> Dia is fine, too
<AnDarkon> brb
<chillywilly> grrr, I hate this crap
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<chillywilly> html sucks!
<qbert> agreed
<nickr> I like html.
<nickr> It sucks in the most interesting ways.
<qbert> hey, in a makefile, i need to compile *.cpp, so how do i say that ?
<chillywilly> in a Makefile.am file?
<qbert> no just regular make
<nickr> hrm, usually you just make a transform rule and refer to all the object files in a target
<nickr> I think.
<chillywilly> yep
<chillywilly> if you don't know how to dot hat I would suggest rtfming
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<nickr> chillywilly: you mean what I said actually made sense?
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> yes
<chillywilly> you usually make a general rule to compile .cpp to .o and then put the .o in s makefile target
<chillywilly> s/s/a/
<nickr> man, I must be off my game
<nickr> arght
<chillywilly> or just use automake
<nickr> this is annoying
<chillywilly> for crying out loud
Action: chillywilly thwaps nickr witha  tuna
<nickr> why don'tI get more email!?
<chillywilly> cause you suck
<nickr> yea
<nickr> I guess.
<chillywilly> no one likes you
<chillywilly> you're a luser
<nickr> I suppose I'll just write more manpages.
<nickr> and wallow in my self-pity
<chillywilly> heheh
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Action: chillywilly wallows in his too
<chillywilly> jamest!
<chillywilly> sup g
<jamest> better than wallowing in your poo :)
<jamest> nothing
<jamest> is 'sup
<nickr> I don't think thats what chillywilly is wallowing in
<chillywilly> ummm, whatever
<chillywilly> I don't have time for comments from the peanut gallery
<nickr> maybe I'll submit some bogs just for fun
<jamest> bogs?
<nickr> bugs
<jamest> please do
<nickr> Then I'd get some email
<nickr> and how
<chillywilly> those marshy swamp ground things?
<chillywilly> anyone here ever walk on a real bog?
<nickr> yea
<chillywilly> cool
<chillywilly> I did a long time ago
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<qbert> $(CC) ${CCSW1} ${INCLUDES} -c -o $@ $< thats what i was looking for jackass
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<chillywilly> well if you found it yourself then why the fuck would you come in here asking
<Mr_You> hi
<chillywilly> what a putz
<chillywilly> hi
<jamest> what was the qbert thing about?
<dneighbo> then guess he didnt like the rftm comment
<chillywilly> dude was asking about makefile rules
<jamest> a problem w/ our makefiles?
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> just a general questions about makefiles
<chillywilly> well shit that;s what i would have to do
<chillywilly> I haven't used those old makfile varibales in ages
<chillywilly> automake makes it all easier
<chillywilly> heh, I msged him and he tells me not to be hostile when he's the one popping in and calling ppl a jackass
<chillywilly> wtf?
<dneighbo> jamest: he came in and asked how to make gcc do soethimg
<dneighbo> in a make file
<chillywilly> if his question was more specific I wouldn't have thought he knew zip about makefiles
<dneighbo> nick and chillywilly both answered him
<dneighbo> chilly was a bit rude but truthful in saying if you dont know how to do x you should rtfm
<dneighbo> he left
<dneighbo> came back in like 5 minutes pasted that message and left
<chillywilly> I was not rude
<dneighbo> i suppose if he really wanted useful help he would have gone to #debian ;)
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<dneighbo> chillywilly i think rtfm is not acceptable help
<dneighbo> but thats just me
<StormBringer> hello all ppl
<chillywilly> just ststing if you didn't know how to make a rule to compile .cpp to .o then you vreally need hekp that is beyond what we could give
<dneighbo> as stated i said you were truthful
<AnDarkon> Now that was a dinner! :-)
<dneighbo> doesnt mean that you were polite
Action: AnDarkon politely BuRps!
<chillywilly> in an irc channel
<chillywilly> he took it the wrong way
Action: dneighbo feverishly waves his hand in front of his face to get rid of that odiferous smell
<dneighbo> chillywilly i agree he did
<AnDarkon> 'cuse me
<chillywilly> hehe
Action: dneighbo heads for the hills
<dneighbo> be back later i suppose
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<chillywilly> "If you give a man a fish he eats for a day, tech him how to fish and he eats for a lifetime"
<chillywilly> or something
<chillywilly> like that
<AnDarkon> I was thinking of using SOAP (or XML-RPC) to handle the client front-end (read: from the shop floor) to KOMP
<AnDarkon> comments?
<chillywilly> we are building an rpc abstarction that will support xml-rpc, soap, corba, etc.
<chillywilly> which our tools will use then
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<AnDarkon> wouldn't that be a little heavy between the shop floor and KOMP?
<chillywilly> er, how would it be "heavy"?
<AnDarkon> lot of wrapper data
<chillywilly> what do you mean by "btween the shop floor"?
<chillywilly> between
<chillywilly> it is just going to be a common api
<AnDarkon> the shop floor will have timeclocks (PC-based) which punches and labor start/stop will be recorded. The timeclocks would then query/message the KOMP engine
<chillywilly> jcater is the mastermind behind it so he would know more specifics
<chillywilly> oh i see
<chillywilly> I don't think it will slow anything down
<AnDarkon> isn't jcater here, though? He spaketh, did he not? :-)
<chillywilly> you have a config file ststing which mechanism you are going to use
<chillywilly> it loads the "plugin"
<chillywilly> then can send that type of message
<chillywilly> similar to the db plugins
<AnDarkon> Right, KOMP itself will be abstracted away from the external interface. There would be a module between the shop floor and KOMP
<chillywilly> he's writign it inpython
<chillywilly> and I can't type today
<chillywilly> gah
<AnDarkon> That's the language I decided on as well
<chillywilly> wel if you check out cvs
<chillywilly> go to
<chillywilly> gnue/common
<chillywilly> doc
<chillywilly> there's a RPC-abstraction.txt file
<AnDarkon> Not yet :-) I want to finish my designs before I'm distracted :-)
<chillywilly> it explains some of the things going on inside of that wacky head of his ;)
<AnDarkon> the more reason to wait heh
<chillywilly> well sure
<chillywilly> it's "in the works" right now
<chillywilly> ;)
<AnDarkon> Show me a design that is finished, and I'll show you a POS :-)
<chillywilly> well ok
<chillywilly> lemme rephrase
<chillywilly> there minimal code right now ;)
<chillywilly> and the design is still half stuck in jcater's mind
<chillywilly> ;)
<AnDarkon> That's the trouble with English at times; I draw pictures to help me along
<chillywilly> but you can see a nice example of things in that text file
<chillywilly> and how you would use it
<AnDarkon> just how new is GNUE?
<chillywilly> GNUe is 2 years old believe it nor not
<chillywilly> s/nor/or/
<AnDarkon> slow but sure, eh? :-)
<chillywilly> yep
Action: chillywilly hasn't been around the whole 2 years
<chillywilly> slow but sure wins the race ;P
<chillywilly> heh
<AnDarkon> Hare today, turtle tomorrow
<chillywilly> anyway, jamest or derek could say more about the "history" of GNUe
<StormBringer> chillywilly: www.openeas.org, www.compiere.org
<chillywilly> reinhard was also there in the beginning
<StormBringer> chillywilly: they said they're the best in the market ;)
<AnDarkon> StormBringer: of Elric? :-)
<StormBringer> AnDarkon: what's Elric ?
<StormBringer> AnDarkon: ah, Michele Murkok?
<AnDarkon> Moorcock
<AnDarkon> of Melboirne
<StormBringer> AnDarkon: nope
<chillywilly> problem with those is they just wrote the apps and not a framework that can be extended to write any sort of enterprise application
<chillywilly> different striokes for different folks
<AnDarkon> heh
<StormBringer> AnDarkon: another book of another author
<AnDarkon> hardcoded apps, tightly coupled... ugh
<StormBringer> chillywilly: agree
<chillywilly> once the GNUe tools marture to a certain point then the apps will come
<chillywilly> we battle with thise sort of thing all the time though as everyone wants apps ;)
<StormBringer> chillywilly: i'm scare of packages. what if the data will not be declared and keeping just once?
<chillywilly> I don't follow you man
<AnDarkon> I don't understand either
<jamest> quick question
<jamest> for those of you that have played w/ forms
<StormBringer> you will provide packages for sales and accounting and so on
Action: AnDarkon has used JYACC JAM and Oracle SQL*Forms
<AnDarkon> correction: programmed in
<chillywilly> that's the plan
<jamest> How would you say it compares to writing user apps standalone.
<StormBringer> chillywilly: what if there will be Person object both in sales and accounting packages?
<chillywilly> AnDarkon: well jcater used to do Oracle forms until he started hacking GNUe forms ;)
<StormBringer> chillywilly: which one am i to use?
<chillywilly> StormBringer: we have "modules" which provide a namespace
<AnDarkon> :-) I figured when I saw the reference to SQL*Forms
<jamest> And AnDarkon, how would you say it compared to sql*forms (a model used in forms design, jamest and jcater are sql*forms people)
<AnDarkon> I don't know enough about the GNUeForms to even draw a comparsion
<StormBringer> chillywilly: namespaces - thats ok, but WHICH one am i to work with? both? double data input and modification?
<chillywilly> StormBringer: whichever one you want to...of course in the GNUe packages there will probbaly be standrda base object definitions
<chillywilly> we have a "base" packae
<chillywilly> er, pakcage
<chillywilly> damnit
<chillywilly> finger...will....not.... work
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<StormBringer> chillywilly: don't be angree ;)
<chillywilly> StormBringer: i.e, there shouldn't be needless duplication for common objects
<chillywilly> unless it makes sense to
<StormBringer> how to make docs from cvs ?
<chillywilly> and those would be qualifies with a module namespace more than likely
<chillywilly> StormBringer: the docbook stuff?
<StormBringer> chillywilly: yeh
<chillywilly> try db2html or something
<chillywilly> might be a bcth to get working though as docbook commonly can be
<chillywilly> er, bitch
<chillywilly> might find some more up to date stuff in: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/ ;)
<chillywilly> tons of goodies in there
<chillywilly> neilt is basically our "package" designer as of right now
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<AnDarkon> How fine is a timestamp resolution? seconds or milliseconds?
<chillywilly> beats me
<chillywilly> it should be seconds
<chillywilly> I don;t have any files on my system that are tim stamped to the millisecond
<AnDarkon> and is UTC used throughout the ERP? to allow for multi-timezone usages?
<chillywilly> er, time
<chillywilly> dunno, but the ODMG standrda uses GMT
<AnDarkon> Okay, timekeepers' granularity is down to milliseconds
<chillywilly> er, standard
<AnDarkon> UTC = GMT :-)
<AnDarkon> what does ODMG stand for?
<chillywilly> oh duh
<chillywilly> Object Data Model Group
<chillywilly> http://www.odmg.org
<AnDarkon> ah, incorporated?
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> superset of OMG
<chillywilly> er, well the database part of OMG
<AnDarkon> why do I feel like I'm in the military? ;-)
<chillywilly> uh?
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<chillywilly> hey neilt
<AnDarkon> all the anagrams :-)
<neilt> hey
<chillywilly> neilt: btw, 
<chillywilly> I have the odmg book and will be taling some notes, etc. in case anyone is interested
<chillywilly> er, taking
<AnDarkon> chillywilly: You should have that finger looked at
<chillywilly> it has a nice meta object system for adding new types
<chillywilly> hehe
<neilt> cool,
<chillywilly> neilt: would you be interested in supporting ODL?
<neilt> any chance those notes will turn into code?
<chillywilly> like converting gcds to odl
<StormBringer> chillywilly: ODL ?
<chillywilly> Object description language
<chillywilly> neilt: that's the plan
<neilt> cool
<chillywilly> in fact I have read the firts 2 chapters already
<chillywilly> er, first
<chillywilly> should I put my notes in cvs?
<chillywilly> hmmm
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<AnDarkon> chillywilly: what format would your notes be in?
<chillywilly> text right now
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<chillywilly> hey Remosi
<Remosi> G'evenin'
<Remosi> howzit?
<chillywilly> ok
<jamest> AnDarkon: have you used forms?
<chillywilly> anyone want me to put these notes in cvs?
<jamest> i don't have an issue with that as long as nothing copyrighted ends up in there
<chillywilly> (just say yes ;) )
<chillywilly> hrrrm
<AnDarkon> jamest: Programmed and used, yes
<jamest> was it hard to learn?
<AnDarkon> just one paradigm shift, after that, not a problem
<jamest> what was that paradigm shift?
<AnDarkon> it's the precedence that is the most thorny
<AnDarkon> the programming of the SQL*Forms wasn't procedural, but instead dependent on events (triggers in Oracle jargon)
<AnDarkon> I drew on my experience from programming serial communications which is pretty much event-driven
<jamest> would you say it is quicker than doing similar interfaces 
<AnDarkon> anyone who's programmed event-driven applications should understand the forms programming without a problem
<jamest> in C/glade, vb, or something similar?
<AnDarkon> VB and Delphi even follows the same concept
<AnDarkon> I am, however, wondering if using the `triggers' terminology in that context would infringe (or annoy) Oracle
<chillywilly> GNUe Forms: The VB of the Free Software world!
<chillywilly> hehe
Action: chillywilly ducks
<AnDarkon> Quack!
<Remosi> heh
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<AnDarkon> if one isn't on top of it, you can get lost in the middle of programming
<AnDarkon> so some forethought before writing the triggers (or events) would be an asset
<AnDarkon> chillywilly: yes (notes in cvs)
<AnDarkon> we hit on a good compromise with JYACC's JAM forms; we'd write the majority of the code in JPL and then tie the event to the invocation of a function in a JPL module
<AnDarkon> it made for easier reading and enhancements without having to go through layers of events
<chillywilly> I dunno what is "acceptable" because this bok is copyrighted
<chillywilly> althought the stupid standard is supposed to be "Free"
<AnDarkon> chillywilly: notes are considered `fair use'
<chillywilly> ok, then ;)
<AnDarkon> :-)
<AnDarkon> brb
<derek> a few notes...
<derek> a. AnDarkon im confused you say you are willing ot use the gnue framework yet are talking about technologies apart from gnue im confused
<derek> b. jamest for raw database access applications forms is EASIEST tool i have EVER used especially if you put Xplatform in front of it (its the ONLY one i have seen do it)
<derek> c. chilly, vb and delphi are different yet similar beasts
<derek> gnue to me is a specialized environment
<chillywilly>  was joking of course ;)
<derek> i.e. its vb/delphi for DATABASE development only
<derek> i.e. if i wanted to write a non db app a tool like delphi or vb or glade/python or something would probably make more sense
<derek> but for raw data entry / data retrieval i think forms is the bomb
Action: derek is back (gone 11:24:56)
<chillywilly> well if someon eventaully writes a nice object designer for geas then doing n-tier should be the bomb too
<derek> yes
<jcater> sigh
<derek> huff
<jcater> and how would you define an "object designer?"
<chillywilly> not to ruffle any feathers
<derek> jcater: huff is an 'elevated' sigh ;)
<derek> an object designer
<derek> hmmmm
<chillywilly> jcater: you name the object add methods, attributes, relationships
<chillywilly> then you implement the object methods
<derek> jcater i cant think of many products that do what we are proposing for geas
<derek> some that do parts but none that do it all
<jcater> well, don't gg:caller id block
<chillywilly> I have a whole object description langauge in this book...I can see a way of graphically designing these things ;)
<chillywilly> jsut like we have a forms definition and then we drag widgtes on it and implement triggers
<derek> jcater: was that for another window?
<jcater> two actually
<chillywilly> am I really smoking crack here?
<jcater> gg:.. was for konqueror
<chillywilly> or do I make sense?
<jcater> I don't remember what "well, don't" was for
<jcater> y'all wish me luck
<jcater> I hope to be closing on a house in next few weeks
<chillywilly> good luck man :)
Action: jcater is excited
<jcater> although I'll have to check up on wireless internet
<jcater> I may start one down there
<jcater> (as I'll be in the boonies)
<chillywilly> hehe
<derek> :)
<chillywilly> gawd, this is like painful or soemthing
Action: chillywilly keeps forgetting hsi damn pizza in the microwave
<chillywilly> doh!!
<chillywilly> guess I'll have to heat it again
<Mr_You> I'm gonna get wireless cell phone net access as soon as they get the phones in stock
<chillywilly> kewl
Action: chillywilly consumes room temperature pizza
<AnDarkon> I've never used the GNUe forms themselves; I was drawing on my own experiences. I apologize for any incorrect implications on my part
<Mr_You> well I gotta do some work.. see ya
Action: Mr_You &
<AnDarkon> derek: moreover, I haven't fully absorbed, much less figured out, the GNUe framework so I'm speaking from what I do know and at the moment, it would appear that I'm at crossroads with where I want KOMP to go, and yet at the same time wanting it to be a GNUe module (here I go again, double-talking) :-)
Action: derek slaps chillywilly with a smelly old crappie
[20:43] Last message repeated 4 time(s).
<AnDarkon> jcater: congratulations on the house :-)
<chillywilly> jcater: and think about it, you ust do introspection on GEAS objects (like you do with a db) and you can desgin forms around them ;)
<derek> no eating pizza in front of me damn it
<chillywilly> hehe
<jcater> dudes!
<jcater> I can really slap you with fish
<jcater> as I'll have a pond
<chillywilly> cool
<derek> rofl
<jcater> (and a barn and a workshop and 40 acres)(
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> you'll be a real hick then eh?
<jcater> It'll be the GNUe Freedom Ranch
<AnDarkon> Definitely the boonies
<chillywilly> lol
<AnDarkon> more boony than mine
<jcater> I'll get us a mascot goat
<jcater> we'll have a naming contest :)
<chillywilly> awesome
<chillywilly> :)
<AnDarkon> goat?
<chillywilly> http://goats.gnue.org
<AnDarkon> why not a turkey? it's more intelligent ;-)
Action: AnDarkon ducks
<chillywilly> the goats go way back
<jcater> (the goat has ulterior motives, ... actually, I don't look forward to mowing 40 acres :)
Action: jamest hides
<jamest> jcater: could we interest you in a goat?
<AnDarkon> I had a name, but it was already taken
<jamest> ooo
<AnDarkon> `Billy'
<jamest> i see you already planned to purchase one
<chillywilly> you guys need to update the goats page
<chillywilly> we need jc on there
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> and reinhard
<chillywilly> you guys are slacking
<chillywilly> I am disappointed at the level upkeep on the goats page ;)
Action: jcater didn't know about the goats page
<chillywilly> really?
<jcater> that picture of derek is really, really scary
<chillywilly> hehe
<jcater> but the picture of jamest looks exactly like him
<chillywilly> he used to have a his son's picture up there, iiirc
<AnDarkon> Two Andrews... hrmph
<chillywilly> neither of which are involved in GNUe anymore
<chillywilly> http://members.gtw.net/~taylor/mike/chilly/chillyheader.jpg <--- that's my picture ;)
<chillywilly> cool
<chillywilly> the chillywilly song
<chillywilly> I'm Chilly Willy the penguin. I shake until I'm blue.
<chillywilly> My head is hot and my feet are cold. Ah Eee Achoo!
<chillywilly> Now what about the crocodiles along the River Nile?
<chillywilly> I'll bet they're always warm as toast. They always seem to smile.
<chillywilly> I'm always Chilly Willy. I'm frozen through and through.
<chillywilly> My nose is red and my tail is cold. Ah Eee Achoo!
<ajmitch> afternoon all
<AnDarkon> that's the theme song?
<chillywilly> yep
<chillywilly> that cartoon rocked
<AnDarkon> never heard it 'til now :-)
<chillywilly> ajmitch!
<ajmitch> chillywilly!
Action: chillywilly pounce-hugs ajmitch
<ajmitch> air! air!
<chillywilly> hehe
<AnDarkon> I'll be back in here Saturday. Tomorrow is my wife's turn at the computer... web stuff, ya know
<ajmitch> hehe
<AnDarkon> Hopefully, I'll have some GNUe reading done by then before I do the foot-in-mouth manuver again
<AnDarkon> You find the version to your liking, chillywilly?
<ajmitch> many andrews around
<chillywilly> AnDarkon: can you teac me that manuvear?
<AnDarkon> <--- Andrew
<ajmitch> AnDarkon: yah i saw :)
<chillywilly> oh gawd
<AnDarkon> chillywilly: warm up first :-)
<chillywilly> no
<chillywilly> I live in Wisconsin
<chillywilly> and it is winter
<AnDarkon> I was born in Wisconsin
<chillywilly> cool
<chillywilly> me too
<AnDarkon> Beloit, to be specific
<chillywilly> wow
<AnDarkon> I'm in Michigan at the moment
Action: chillywilly lives outside of Milwaukee
<AnDarkon> Cool; I graduated from St. John's
<AnDarkon> in Milwaukee just around the corner from Cuhady
<chillywilly> yep
<chillywilly> I know the place
<AnDarkon> you know the school? Interesting :-) it closed down in '84 (or '85)
<chillywilly> well I know *of* it
<AnDarkon> Heh
Action: ajmitch guesses andrewm probably knew the school i went to
<AnDarkon> ajmitch: 'fraid not
<ajmitch> AnDarkon: i spoke of andrewm, a former GNUe developer :)
<AnDarkon> My lastname starts with 'M' :-)
<ajmitch> so does mine :P
<derek> no no no
<ajmitch> muahaha
<derek> andrew murie
<derek> andrew mitch
<derek> andrew markley
<chillywilly> nooooo!
<derek> no no no
<chillywilly> too many andrewm's makes chillywilly something something
<derek> i swear this project attracts andrew m's
Nick change: ajmitch -> andrewm
<AnDarkon> Hehehe
<andrewm> :)
<chillywilly> ah!
<AnDarkon> is it a bad thing? :-)
<andrewm> code!!
Nick change: andrewm -> ajmitch
<chillywilly> plz keep andrewm code away form me
<ajmitch> AnDarkon: it wouldn't be if andrew murie wasn't an evil sado-masochist ;)
<derek> dang you didnt stay as andrewm long enough
<chillywilly> it is scary
<ajmitch> hehe
<AnDarkon> I'm no evil masochist
Action: AnDarkon hopes no one notices the omission
<chillywilly> ricky Trout
<chillywilly> 1961
<chillywilly> Chilly finds a trout hatchery run by Wally Walrus. Chilly wants some fish, but Wally has no use for a fish moochin' penguin. Watch how Chilly walks around a curve in the road.
<chillywilly> Er, Tricky
ajmitch_ (ajmitch@fire.lug.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.
Nick change: ajmitch_ -> andrewm
<andrewm> better?
<chillywilly> ack!
<chillywilly> go away
<derek> Who told you, that you could stop coding?
<derek> doh
Nick change: AnDarkon -> andrewm_
<andrewm_> how about this one?
Nick change: andrewm_ -> AnDarkon
<derek> andrewm who told you, that you could stop coding?
<derek> there we go
<andrewm> i did
Action: derek slaps andrewm with a smelly old crappie
<chillywilly> andrewm: where have you been?!?
<AnDarkon> I definitely will be confused
<chillywilly> playing with jamest's goat?
<derek> andrewm we dont discuss java here.
<andrewm> dreaming up new ways to torture you
<AnDarkon> I take that back... I -am- confused
<andrewm> java is just evil
<andrewm> it's _wrong_
<andrewm> which is why i love it so ;)
<derek> Derek,
<derek> We're doing some testing with SAP DB.  I'm still quite new here so I'll
<derek> have to get back to you about your testing question, since I don't know
<derek> how that works.
<derek> I can take a wild stab and refer you the OSDL Web site
<derek> (http://www.osdl.org/projects/project.html) where you can submit a
<derek> proposal for a test.
<derek> Mark
<derek> On Thu, 2002-02-07 at 14:20, Derek Neighbors wrote:
<derek> > Mark,
<derek> > 
<derek> > Is OSDL putting SAP DB on their hardware?  As we (GNU Enterprise) is a 
<derek> > member of OSDL and perhaps we could some of our testing that way?
<derek> > 
<derek> > -Derek
<derek> this was re: getting sap db into debian unstable...
<derek> btw: looks like after some jousting on the mailing list that might be happening sooner than later :)
<AnDarkon> SAP is open sourcing their DB?
<derek> um its GPL
<derek> has been for little over a year
<derek> chilly if you want to spend useful time
<derek> install sapdb on debian and test forms drivers :)
<derek> http://www.mybytes.de/sapdb/
<derek> for the debian quickguide
<AnDarkon> I definitely have been out of the loop when it came to SAP
<AnDarkon> We're talking about SAP of Germany, right?
<derek> yes
<derek> SAP AG the maker of SAP R/3
Action: StormBringer is away: Reading a book about CORBA
<derek> they have LEARNED that the database is a commodityu
<derek> basically to a degree most new customers were choosing oracle adn db2
<derek> so they just decided to GPL SAP-DB
<derek> however if you own SAP R/3 and choose to use SAP-DB you MUST pay a support fee no matter what
<jamest> it seems to be a pretty active project
<jamest> their mailing list is quite busy
<derek> so for SAP R/3 customers its not free as in beer
<derek> jamest yes
<derek> quite helpful
<derek> and good deal of sap employees troll and answer from it
<derek> from what i am seeing its a decent prodcut
ajmitchell (~root@p31-max3.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.
<derek> er product
Action: ajmitchell is bored
Action: chillywilly slaps ajmitchell with a trout
<jamest> i have downloaded it
<derek> in fact if i can get some toying done with it i might suggest it become the preferred db of gnue
<jamest> but not installed yet
<derek> even over postgres
Action: ajmitchell slaps chillywilly down with a GNU
Action: jamest smack's derek
<AnDarkon> ajmitchell: Home Depot would be a good place for you to visit; it's the House of Boards
<jamest> never!
<jamest> :)
<ajmitchell> sounds fun :)
<chillywilly> derek: you are on some good crack
<chillywilly> plz share
<AnDarkon> derek: before I go, have I answered the questions to your satisfaction?
<ajmitchell> when can we get GNUe on GNU?
<Remosi> ajmitch: my guess is when python works on GNU, python works on GNU when pthreads works on GNU....
<Remosi> at a guess
<chillywilly> do they have pthreads yet?
<ajmitch> Remosi: ah right
<Remosi> not afaik
<Remosi> although they are working on it
<chillywilly> blah
<ajmitch> chillywilly: jeroen & marcus have been working on it
<chillywilly> jeroen?
<chillywilly> uhuh
<ajmitch> i shoudl really update
<Remosi> and have a basic implementation
Action: chillywilly just skims that list too ;)
<Remosi> list?
<chillywilly> hurd lists
<Remosi> I skim the channel :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<chillywilly> ah
<ajmitch> i skim both :)
<ajmitchell> i want sshd to work, using telnet sucks
<chillywilly> marcus just posted a pacth for the term translator didn't he?
<chillywilly> or was that the serial driver
<ajmitchell> dunno
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-64.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> i even have a 2 week uptime
<chillywilly> "the big term patch"
<dsmith> Hey Guys
<chillywilly> hey
<chillywilly> man this channel is getting full
<ajmitch> hey dsmith!!
<chillywilly> I almost have to scroll to see all the names
<AnDarkon> Interesting... the forms itself could handle the task of a shop floor punch application
<ajmitch> yeah, i shoudl kill off andrewm & ajmitchell
<AnDarkon> would reading neilt's notes on the modules be a good place to start?
<chillywilly> the module guide is nice
<chillywilly> then the forms technical reference
<AnDarkon> modules guide then forms technical ref?
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> that's how i'd do it
<AnDarkon> Ok
<AnDarkon> I don't suppose the module guide is in pdf or html so I can print it out?
<chillywilly> yes it is
<chillywilly> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/
<AnDarkon> danke!
<chillywilly> look there ;)
<AnDarkon> Ahead of you :-)
<AnDarkon> downloaded the PDF
<AnDarkon> Okay, I'm outta here... eyes need relubricating
<chillywilly> hehe
<AnDarkon> It's been nice chatting with you guys :-)
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<derek> missed him....
<derek> poopie
<derek> had to carry in groceries
<chillywilly> sucks to be you
<chillywilly> :P
<dsmith> We love you too, chilly
<ajmitch> wow, 9 packages to upgrade
Action: derek is greatful i have groceries to carry in at this point in this economy
<dsmith> derek: I just got back from Michigan.  Paying gig.  Gonna get my full salary back soon.
Action: dsmith is tired and happy.
<chillywilly> dsmith: ummm, derek knows I love him
<chillywilly> :)
<dsmith> chillywilly: I forgot the :)
Action: chillywilly is away: trash night
<derek> sucks to be you
<derek> :P
Action: dsmith listens to Phil Keaggy
<derek> hey now
<derek> i like phil keaggy
<derek> in fact i will go as far as 
<derek> print "derek likes %s keaggy a lot" % favorite_keaggy
<Remosi> heh
<dsmith> derek: Accoustic Sketches: Jam in the Pocket.  Ahhh.
<derek> yummy i like my music a bit harder than that most of the time
<derek> but we listen to them (all the keaggy's) a bit :)
<derek> my new favorite i think now is pillar
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:04:47)
Action: chillywilly has no clue who you're talking about
Action: dsmith notes that derek has a fine sense of taste
<derek> you have heard of pillar?
<chillywilly> who's "keaggy"?
<chillywilly> derek: I meant keaggy
<derek> wow im suprised seems no one i know has heard of them
<dsmith> chillywilly: Awesome guitar player.
<derek> phil keaggy is a good christian artistic reminds me of classic rock guitar :)
<derek> he has lots of family ie the 'favorite_keaggy' code snippet that also make music
<dsmith> derek: Ever listen to Glass Harp?
<derek> sherry being probably the second most famous (iirc)
<derek> nope
<chillywilly> ok, follks I will commit my notes on ODMG tonight
<chillywilly> wuuahahahaha
<chillywilly> no one can stop me
Action: derek wonders if dsmith would like project86 or crash rickshaw
<chillywilly> anyway...
<derek> though those might be a little too 'hard'
<chillywilly> how about deicide?
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> they are just plain evil
<dsmith> derek: not heard of them
<chillywilly> 1 definition found
<chillywilly> From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:
<chillywilly>   Deicide \De"i*cide\, n. [L. deicida a deicide (in sense 2); deus
<chillywilly>      god + c[ae]dere to cut, kill: cf. F. d['e]icide.]
<chillywilly>      1. The act of killing a being of a divine nature;
<chillywilly>         particularly, the putting to death of Jesus Christ. [R.]
<chillywilly>   
<chillywilly>               Earth profaned, yet blessed, with deicide. --Prior.
<chillywilly>   
<chillywilly>      2. One concerned in putting Christ to death.
<chillywilly> pretty evil name for a band
<chillywilly> they are hard core death metal
<dsmith> Bleah
<chillywilly> I don't listen to them
<derek> dsmith: yeah he dont listen to them he only worships them ;)
<chillywilly> uh, no
<chillywilly> I worship Jesus Christ
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> they just popped into my head when you were talking about *hard\* music
Action: dsmith worships Jesus too
<chillywilly> hey you ever hear of the band Death?
<dsmith> nope
<chillywilly> with Chuck Shouldner
<StormBringer> geas team: how can i use CORBAservices (NamingService) with orbit-python ?
Action: chillywilly can come up with all the sick twisted dark bands
<chillywilly> Slayer
<chillywilly> Sepultura
<chillywilly> StormBringer: well we don't use it currently....we just use an IOR file
<chillywilly> (yes I know it is lame)
<chillywilly> StormBringer: a lot of ppl use OAF to activate corba servers
<chillywilly> oaf == object activation framework
<chillywilly> basically it is an xml file that describes how to activate the componenet
<chillywilly> (a hack of course ;) )
<derek> why use corba
<derek> use mono
<derek> its so cool
<chillywilly> I also think that the old syable orbit handles the name service stuff my putting it in the X server or soemthing goofy like that
<chillywilly> er, stable
<chillywilly> oh yea!
<derek> plus **spoiler coming**
<chillywilly> mono is uh...
<derek> chicks dig dudes that do mono programming
<chillywilly> we don't need those kind of chicks
<ajmitch> nooo!
<ajmitch> then do i have no hope unless i join mono?
<chillywilly> http://www.pacepros.com/CENewsletter_html/cenewsletter_020115.html
Action: chillywilly pokes dtm
<chillywilly> oh danny boy
<chillywilly> where art thou danny boy
neilt (neilt@dhcp64-134-54-181.chan.dca.wayport.net) left irc: 
<dsmith> chillywilly: Interesting Site.
<chillywilly> something dtm turned me onto a while ago
Action: dsmith bookmarks the page
<chillywilly> my buddy just got laid off
<chillywilly> :(
<derek> a funny joke on that
<derek> my mom used to tell me 'better to be pissed off than pissed on' when complaining i was pissed about something
<derek> in this case its definitely better to be 'laid' than 'laid off'
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> brb
<jcater> laid?
<jcater> wassat?
<jcater> oh, yeah
<jcater> been married so long I forget sometimes
<derek> ;)
<jcater> fyi: Merlot and Tacos don't go together!!
<derek> double roflmao
<dsmith> Well, goodnight people.
Action: dsmith is away: sleep
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--- Fri Feb  8 2002