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<nickr> yea
<nickr> they are cheap and effective
<nickr> dunkin has 50 for $4
<nickr> mmm
<nickr> sweet donutty goodness
Action: ajmitch wonders about ppls donut obsession
<nickr> Donuts are the perfect food
<nickr> they crispy outside, the smooth cakey middle, the delcious glazing
<nickr> you can't beat em!
Action: ajmitch wonders how much nickr weighs
<derek> i subscribe to moms philosphy
<derek> she said 'you cant trust a skinny cook'
<nickr> You can't trust a skinny hacker.
<derek> i say 'you cant trust a skinny programmer'
<nickr> I'm 245 or so
<nickr> 6'1
<derek> wow you are thin boy
<nickr> Heh
<ajmitch> heh
<nickr> thicker than most!
Action: derek is 215 and like 5'8
<derek> ;)
Action: ajmitch is about 225 & 6'1
Action: jcater is the same as ajmitch
<jcater> scary
<nickr> freakish
Action: nickr towers over derek
<jcater> except I have a ladder and ajmitch doesn't
<ajmitch> jcater: curses
<ajmitch> i need to climb onto my roof :)
<nickr> ajmitch: climb up the power pole and shimmy over on the mains line
<ajmitch> nickr: nah, the wires join onto the house in the wrong place
<ajmitch> easier to climb the tree & go along the very thin branch
<nickr> theres a plan
<nickr> maybe if you believe enough you can fly
<ajmitch> perhaps
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<derek> anyone else actively using cvs?
<derek> if so can you test if current designer in cvs is biffed?
<ajmitch> umm yeah
<ajmitch> i'll test
<ajmitch> how biffed?
<derek> specifically try to use the wizard to create a new form
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue$ ~/bin/gfdes 
<derek> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/Designer.py", line 130, in OnWizard
<derek> DB000:     wizard = TemplateChooser.TemplateChooser(self).run()
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/../../../designer/src/TemplateChooser.py", line 118, in run
<derek> DB000:     self.notebook.AddPage(ctrl, package.PACKAGE)
<derek> DB000: AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'PACKAGE'
<derek> is what i get when trying to run the wizard
Action: derek will have to go get a more stable version and install me thinks
<ajmitch> nope, i created a new form just fine
<derek> from very latest cvs?
<derek> damn
<derek> wonder what is wrong then
<ajmitch> ran cvs up not 5 min before running it, but i ran after usinf setup-cvs.py
<derek> i redid setup-cvs.py too
<derek> hmmm
<ajmitch> designer is looking nice :)
Action: ajmitch shoudl move his db from mysql to postgres
<derek> damn i get same thing
<ajmitch> hmm something broken there then
<nickr> designer is quite sweet
<ajmitch> yep
Action: nickr plans to find many more bugs in it
<nickr> er I mean use it extensively
Action: ajmitch shoudl build a simple form to add users to his db
<derek> ajmitch: can you run gfdes -d 10
<derek> and when you hit the new from wizard can you go to term window
<derek> and paste here what is says for
<derek> DB002: [TemplateChooser:97] Packages=
<ajmitch> DB002: [TemplateChooser:97] Packages=[<module 'gnue.designer.templates.forms' from '/opt/src/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/templates/forms/__init__.pyc'>, <module 'gnue.designer.templates.reports' from '/opt/src/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/templates/reports/__init__.pyc'>]
<ajmitch> DB002: [Instance:194] Adding tool Property Inspector [propertyEditor]
<ajmitch> DB002: [Instance:194] Adding tool Object Navigator [treeEditor]
<ajmitch> DB002: [Instance:194] Adding tool Event Editor [triggerEditor]
<derek> DB002: [TemplateChooser:97] Packages=[<module 'gnue.designer.templates.forms' from '/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/templates/forms/__init__.pyc'>, <module 'gnue.designer.templates.reports' from '/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/templates/reports/__init__.pyc'>, <module 'gnue.designer.templates.templates' from '/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/templates/templates/__init__.pyc'
<derek> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<derek> is what i get
<ajmitch> hrmm
<ajmitch> interesting
<derek> which is damn near same
<ajmitch> i might have a mess of stuff in /usr/local affecting my install tho
<derek> if i go to __init__.py in those locations
<derek> PACKAGE='Forms' 
<derek> etc seems to be there
<ajmitch> you coudl try removing the .pyc files? :)
<ajmitch> grr, it won't let me connect to the mysql db
Action: ajmitch hits head
<ajmitch> wrong db name :)
<ajmitch> interesting, using the postgres connection it gave me a list of tables & fields, with mysql it doesn't
<derek> im getting funky crap
<derek> brb
<derek> im restarting x
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<ajmitch> wb
<ajmitch> hmm perhaps the mysql driver wants some TLC :)
<derek> sigh i still get it
<derek> mysql driver needs help
<derek> it does NOT have introspection
<derek> i.e. it doesnt work with wizards
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> that's my problem :)
Action: ajmitch wonders how hard it would be...
<derek> sigh designer seems totally broken to me
<derek> damn this happens EVERY Time i go to be productive
<derek> its a curse
<derek> ajmitch: shouldnt be too hard
<derek> if you know mysql api :)
<ajmitch> nope :)
Action: ajmitch looks for MySQLdb docs
<derek> even if you didnt know but merely had documentation
<derek> it wouldnt be so bad
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> i'm just not sure what introspection requires :)
<derek> ok cvs from 02-05-2001 works
<ajmitch> hmm k
Action: derek thinks my update -Pd did WEIRD things
<derek> or something in cvs is busted
<ajmitch> ok, found the mysqldb docs
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs$ cvs -z9 $GNUECVS co gnue
<derek> for evilness
Action: derek goes to potty and reload on soda and waste other time until thats done :)
<derek> hey -z9 is nice
<derek> that was quick
<derek> ok my cvs now works
<ajmitch> excellent
<derek> guess my update -Pd was behaving oddly
<ajmitch> cool, moonlight3d is being resurrected
<ajmitch> there have even been talks about using gstreamer in the gimp :)
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<ajmitch> derek: what db drivers support introspection that i can look at?
<derek> ah frick
<derek> postgres
<derek> db2 
<derek> oracle
<ajmitch> alright
<derek> scheist
<derek> i have that wierd save as funky unicode going on again
<derek> i had this on this machine before
<derek> crap crap crap
<derek> its time for bed i guess
<derek> i hate this
<derek> was going to do real work and spent 1.5 hours fighting it :(
<derek> i.e. my stupid luck
<derek> ?xml version="1.0"?>
<derek> <!--  GNUe Designer (0.2.0a)
<derek>       Saved on: 2002-02-09 01:30:19  -->
<derek> <^@f^@o^@r^@m^@ ^@t^@i^@t^@l^@e^@=^@"^@S^@t^@a^@t^@e^@ ^@M^@a^@n^@a^@g^@e^@m^@e
<derek> ^@n^@t^@"^@ ^@w^@i^@d^@t^@h^@=^@"^@3^@4^@"^@>^@
<derek> ^@ ^@ ^@<^@d^@a^@t^@a^@s^@o^@u^@r^@c^@e^@ ^@t^@a^@b^@l^@e^@=^@"^@s^@t^@a^@t^@e^@"^@ ^@n^@a^@m^@e^@=^@"^@d^@t^@s^@S^@t^@a^@t^@e^@"^@ ^@d^@a^@t^@a^@b^@a^@s^@e^@=
<derek> ^@"^@h^@c^@s^@_^@t^@e^@s^@t^@i^@n^@g^@"^@/^@>^@
<derek> ^@ ^@ ^@<^@p^@a^@g^@e^@ ^@n^@a^@m^@e^@=^@"^@p^@g^@S^@t^@a^@t^@e^@"^@>^@
<derek> ^@ ^@ ^@ ^@ ^@<^@b^@l^@o^@c^@k^@ ^@r^@o^@w^@s^@=^@"^@1^@0^@"^@ ^@n^@a^@m^@e^@=^@"^@b^@l^@k^@S^@t^@a^@t^@e^@"^@ ^@d^@a^@t^@a^@s^@o^@u^@r^@c^@e^@=^@"^@d^@t^@s^@s
<derek> ^@t^@a^@t^@e^@"^@>^@
<derek> ^@ ^@ ^@ ^@ ^@ ^@ ^@<^@e^@n^@t^@r^@y^@ ^@w^@i^@d^@t^@h^@=^@"^@6^@"^@ 
<derek> is so beautiful of an xml file though eh :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<derek> bbt
<ajmitch> umm...
<ajmitch> setup-cvs.py have a bug with removing the images dir?
<derek> dunno
Action: derek just found a bug i htink
<ajmitch> cos it tries to do rm -f /usr/local/gnue/shared/images
<ajmitch> shoudl be rm -rf for a dir
<derek> AH submit a patch :)
<derek> i must run to bed
<derek> be back tomorrow for real
<ajmitch> hehe, night
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<ajmitch> yo andrew m :)
<AnDarkon> G'morning Andrew M :-)
<ajmitch> too true, it is morning
<AnDarkon> which part of GNUE do you work on? Sorry I missed the last Linuxworld :-/
<ajmitch> none :)
<ajmitch> just did my first patch tonight
<AnDarkon> Ah :-) which part are you interested in, though? :-)
<ajmitch> dunno at the moment ;) mainly things like forms, geas, etc
<ajmitch> just hacked the mysql db driver tonight
<AnDarkon> Cool; glad to see someone else handling the DB module :-) I'd rather concentrate on the time & attendance stuff itself
<ajmitch> i wanted to be able to use the new form wizrd with mysql ;)
<AnDarkon> why are you fingering me, ra3vat?
<ra3vat> sorry, wrong button
<ajmitch> hi ra3vat
<ra3vat> hello ajmitch
<AnDarkon> Ah :-)
<AnDarkon> What time is it for you, Dmitry?
Action: ajmitch wonders what broke
<ra3vat> about 3:20 pm
<AnDarkon> Wow, afternoon already
<ajmitch> i shoudl go sleep soon
<AnDarkon> Ah, New Zealand :-)
<AnDarkon> It's going to take some used to, talking to people in drastically different time zones
<ajmitch> hehe
<Isomer> It's most weird in NZ
<AnDarkon> At the moment, I'm reading anything I can on GNUe and get a feel of the architecture
<Isomer> when you're going to sleep the American's are waking up
<ajmitch> yeah
<Isomer> and when you're waking up the europeans are giving up and calling it a day
<AnDarkon> if it's true what I understand, then the overhead work will be less for me
<Isomer> alternatively, I sleep too much
<AnDarkon> I don't get much sleep... 3 kids of my own and two teenagers who pop in every day (they're welcome, though)
<AnDarkon> and add insult to injury, I'm insommiac heh
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> i am a teenager :)
<AnDarkon> Okay, make that three! :-D
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<AnDarkon> hey Reinhard
<reinhard> hi AnDarkon
<AnDarkon> I'm reading the modules guide; what should I read next?
<reinhard> depends on what you want to do
<AnDarkon> writing the T&A module to drop into GNUe
<AnDarkon> Introduction to Developers, yes?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> well
Action: AnDarkon listens
<reinhard> many docs are out of date
<reinhard> for example the introduction to developers
<reinhard> you would want to write a 3-tier module
<reinhard> (i.e. using geas)
<reinhard> or a 2-tier "module" for quick usability?
<AnDarkon> 3-tier being abstracted from the DB and from the front-end?
<reinhard> exactly
<AnDarkon> 3-tier was my intention
<reinhard> ok
<AnDarkon> the KOMP (that's what I'm calling it at this time) design calls for true abstraction from either side
<reinhard> then you should read the existing module proposals
<AnDarkon> titled `GNU Enterprise - Module Guide Proposal'?
<reinhard> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/sc.html
<reinhard> all "* Package" documents
<reinhard> especially the "Base Package" because it contains definitions that should be shared between the modules
<AnDarkon> Right, that's where I got the Module Guide from
<reinhard> so if your module will need some currency e.g. you should use the currency object defined there
<reinhard> ah ok
<AnDarkon> KOMP will eventually handle currency when the workforce is dollar-based
<AnDarkon> I should invest in a laser printer and save hehe
<reinhard> lol
<reinhard> be warned
<AnDarkon> 'lots of pages
<reinhard> all those documents contain the whole text of the GNU FDL
<AnDarkon> I saw
<reinhard> however
<reinhard> i am about to leave
<reinhard> will be back later
<AnDarkon> That's okay :-)
<reinhard> possibly
<AnDarkon> You've given me enough to do
Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away
<rm-away> have fun :)
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<Yurik> re
<AnDarkon> Hi
<AnDarkon> where is ua, if I may ask?
<Yurik> AnDarkon: Ukraine
<AnDarkon> ah, thanks :-)
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<sklein> mdean: you around?
<sklein> guess not.
<sklein> bye
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<Yurik> chillywilly: hi
<chillywilly> howdy
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Action: Yurik is hacking some code
<chillywilly> good man
Action: Yurik really love Erlang :-)
<AnDarkon> Erlang?
<AnDarkon> Some JRR Tolkien language?
<chillywilly> I believe it is a lisp dialect
<Yurik> Nope, functional language by Ericsson
<chillywilly> don't quote me on it
<Yurik> nope, it is not lisp dialiect
<chillywilly> welll I knew it was functional
<AnDarkon> ((())) and all that? :-)
<chillywilly> ah well
<Yurik> nope, no ((())) :-)
<AnDarkon> :-)
<AnDarkon> Someone said I should use scheme... One look is enough ;-)
Action: chillywilly thinks we need an emacs UI for GNUe Forms
Action: AnDarkon shudders
<chillywilly> bah
<AnDarkon> Heh
<AnDarkon> I like my vi, thankyewverahmush!
Action: Yurik is typing code in xemacs :-)
<chillywilly> xemacs is a slap in RMS's face man
Action: chillywilly only uses GNU emacs
<chillywilly> GNU Emacs 21 is pretty nice...I wouldn't mind a Gnome interface
<jbailey> chillywilly: I'm just reading the emacs changelog from CVS.  I'm amazed at how much development there is on it.
<AnDarkon> jbailey: how much of it was for the editor itself? ;-)
<jbailey> AnDarkon: All the stuff I'm looking at.
<jbailey> I'm only reading the src/ChangeLog files.
<AnDarkon> I meant on the editor concept itself, not the kitchen sink around it
<jbailey> Almost all of the patches that I see in the last couple of months are UI.
<AnDarkon> Hmm
Action: chillywilly wants to know where the Gnome UI is
<chillywilly> ;P
<jbailey> chillywilly: Waiting for you to code it, no doubt. =)
<AnDarkon> Don't look at me :-) I have no vested interest in emacs
<chillywilly> not that it matter I never use buttons or menus
<chillywilly>  just want it to look like the rest of the apps I use
<AnDarkon> Hehehe. Chillywilly: the next-generation entertainment center lover ;-)
<chillywilly> er?
<jbailey> AnDarkon: Font-lock mode is what finally got me switched.
<AnDarkon> font-lock?
Action: chillywilly used to be a big vim user for years
<AnDarkon> Dat's me
<chillywilly> cause you're a freak
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> j/
<chillywilly> k
<chillywilly> anyway....emacs rules
<chillywilly> gnu rules
<chillywilly> FS rules
Action: Yurik rules :-]
<chillywilly> hehe
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<jcater> ==================================
<jcater> By popular demand, schema support
<jcater> for MySQL is now in CVS.
<jcater> ...
<jcater> I've done basic testing. If anyone
<jcater> who actually uses MySQL could do
<jcater> more complete tests, it would be
<jcater> appreciated :)
<jcater> ==================================
<jcater> s/popular/occasional
<jcater> ;)
<chillywilly> hrrrm
<chillywilly> what doe sit mean to have schema support?
<jcater> wizard support
<jcater> drag and drop field creation
<jcater> etc
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> ohj you mean for designer?
<jcater> well, it's in common for all to use
<jcater> but designer is the only thing to use it
<jcater> at the moment
<chillywilly> uhuh
<chillywilly> cool
<chillywilly> good job jcater
<jcater> I must run... be back tonight
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<chillywilly> ok
<derek> hmm
<derek> damn  i just missed him
<derek> damn damn damn
<derek> teach me to read backlogs
<chillywilly> hehe
<derek> ajmitch: did you put in mysql supoprt?
<chillywilly> read backlogs or be flogged by the code slaves
<derek> or did jcater?
<chillywilly> jcater did
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<derek> chillywilly: 
<derek> <AnDarkon> which part of GNUE do you work on? Sorry I missed the last Linuxworld :-/
<derek> <ajmitch> none :)
<derek> <ajmitch> just did my first patch tonight
<derek> <AnDarkon> Ah :-) which part are you interested in, though? :-)
<derek> <ajmitch> dunno at the moment ;) mainly things like forms, geas, etc
<derek> <ajmitch> just hacked the mysql db driver tonight
<derek> from backlog
<derek> then jcater came in and said mysql was tested and working
<derek> so my question was did jcater do it
<derek> or did he just accept aj's patch and test it then commit it?
<derek> do you know?
<derek> Yurik: i cant accept ctcp's via my ipmasq
Action: derek has to go fill up da propane tank
<derek> now how red neck does that sound ;)
<Yurik> derek: it might be new script for xchat sending something... need to examine what exactly it does
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<jcater> anyone familiar w/either of these?
<jcater> http://www.ispras.ru/~gsql/
<jcater> http://firebird.sourceforge.net/
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> looks like the first one is dead
<jcater> and looks like the second one is interbase w/new name
<jcater> (or a spinoff of interbase)
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> derek: oh, ok
<chillywilly> I wonder what he did to it then
<chillywilly> derek: you can turn ctpcp by setting xchat to a port
<chillywilly> er, ctcp
<chillywilly> then opening that port
<chillywilly> and forwarding it to your machine
<chillywilly> like this:
<chillywilly> ##Allow dcc
<chillywilly> iptables -A INPUT -i $PPP_IFACE -p tcp --dport 9000:9001 -j LOG --log-level 5 -m limit --limit 20/minute
<chillywilly> iptables -A INPUT -i $PPP_IFACE -p tcp --dport 9000:9001 -j ACCEPT
<chillywilly> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 9000:9001 -i $PPP_IFACE -j DNAT --to 192.168.1.2:9000:9001
<chillywilly> I have xchat set to use 9000 and 9001
<chillywilly> assuming you have an iptables firewall....which you may not have as you have an old kernel
<chillywilly> if you are running debian you could apt-get the 2.4.17 one in the archive and get that to boot, just make sure you leave a entry for the old one in case you have problems
Action: chillywilly just helped his buddy boot the stock 2.4.17 kernel yesterday
<jcater> gone for real this time
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<chillywilly> derek: you mean dcc of course
<chillywilly> as ctcp works fine ;)
<derek> crap missed him again
Action: derek is mad now :)
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<Yurik> psu: hi
<derek> jcater
<derek> ==============================
<derek> GNU SQL to my knowledge is now dead because mysql is GPL and so is SAP DB so they 'won' what they were after iirc
<derek> btw: for historical purposes originally i believe GNUe was giong to use GNU SQL as its preferred backend
<derek> as to firebird remember my tirade a while back on interbase....
<derek> it went something like interbase is the bomb
<derek> borland got smart and open sourced it
<derek> some really sharp folks went and immediately added stuff they had been BEGGING FOR years
<derek> inprise(borland) got freaked (as i think they never thought anyone but them would use the code)
<derek> and didnt accept patches, thus FIREBIRD was born and it start to haul ass (i.e. it was getting LOTS of attention)
Action: Yurik is going to change DE to try out
<derek> borland (inprise) freaked even harder and took interbase code back (iirc)
<derek> and thus a WAR ensued
<derek> thats when i gave up interbase on linux :)
<derek> ======================================
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<derek> anyone know how to install windows?
<derek> i have a friend who dropped off an old compaq presario that did ups shipping and wants win98 on it for his kids
<derek> it appears to have a floppy and cdrom
<derek> but has win3.1 installed (its been too long to play 3.1) :)
<derek> anyhow how do i make a windows boot disk
Action: psu is embaressed to know the answer
<derek> and get it recognize the cd to do install off of cd?
<derek> or does anyone here know 
<derek> psu actually im kind of embarassed i dont know :)
<derek> a year ago no problem but its been so long im kind of lost :)
<psu> Does win 3.1 have support for the CDROM?
<derek> it doesnt appear too
<psu> If so, just run it from within 3.1 & "upgrade"
<derek> dont know if cdrom is broken or just not proper drivers loaded or what
<derek> you know how to setup a cdrom on 3.1?
<psu> I don't believe they are natively supported
<derek> me either
<psu> which means finding the m/f's driver floppy
<derek> this was part of original so im suprised its not working
<psu> or more realistically d/l win 3.1 drivers off net
<derek> but who know what you have to do to make it work
<psu> win 3.1 is non PnP, so you can't ask hardware what it is ;-)
<derek> right
<psu> is there an obvious m/f name on the driver?
<psu> drive 
<derek> i wonder how to get into the bios to see if i can make it boot from floppy
<derek> as the machine looks fairly new relatively speaking
<derek> just problaby running 3.1 for the ups thing
<psu> I have previously managed to do it 
<psu> by getting an MS-DOS boot floppy
<psu> with the cdrom drivers 
<psu> in an otherwise empty config.sys
<psu> & then running the setup.exe off the CD rom 
<psu> from the command line
<psu> This will allow you tp start with a blank HDD
<psu> which may or may not be what you want
<derek> me is trying to find bios entry command first
<psu> If it's a very late win3.1 machine, you *may* be able to set bios to boot off CDROM direct
<psu> but I think that facility usually didn't come in until Win (x was the norm
<psu> 9x
<derek> f10 seems to work
<derek> man that is one wild bios
<derek> its a win3.1 application
<derek> i hate compaq
<derek> woo hoo
<derek> it boots from cd rom
<derek> there is a god
<psu> yay!
<psu> Next question - does PC have the min spec for Win98?
<derek> it appears to be
<derek> p133 32mb ram
<psu> sounds a little lite
<psu> my work machine is a P166 32mb running Win 95
<derek> sigh
<psu> & it goes like a dog at times
<derek> this machine has an operationg system that can not be upgraded ......
<derek> use the update disk
<derek> i can try win 95 disk i guess
<derek> but dont if i can find damn key for it
<psu> I know you can upgrade MSDOS 6 to Win 95
<psu> so I'm surprised Win 3.1 to Win 98 isn't allowed
<derek> um i wonder if i need to fdsik this bad dog or something
Action: derek forgets even how to do that
<derek> dos boot disk i guess
<psu> yes - but you will definantly need the CD-ROM drivers on the boot disk then, I would have thought.
<derek> um shouldnt
<psu> ?
<derek> as its 'boot from cd rom' me thinks
<derek> i.e. the bios is booting from cdrom
<derek> it should do so even off a blank harddrive
<derek> iirc
<psu> yes
Action: derek is running dos5.0 floppy now
<psu> I always had non-booting CD ROM drives
<psu> so I had to go the other way
<derek> crap floppy aint bootable :)
<psu> & boot to MSDOS w/CD ROM driver, 
<psu> derek - get a blank floppy & do format a: /s from MSDOS command line
<derek> no i mean floppy drive seems busted on machine
<psu> ah
<psu> not working at all, or not bootable from>
<psu> ?
<derek> booted now
<derek> must not have had disk in real well
<derek> crap it didnt boot into it
<derek> or if it did it auto launched windows
<derek> ok floppy appears to just be broken
<derek> trying win95 disk
Action: derek hopes he can dig up a key around here
<derek> lkasjdf;lkjsfd;lkja;lkdfj;klasjfd;lksdajf
<derek> pos
<derek> the win95 cd isnt booting
<derek> like the win98 one did
<derek> fsck fsck fsck
<psu> if i rember correctly, Win95 CD doesn't boot.
<psu> OEMs used to ship PCs with a residual MS-DOS w/CD ROM driver
<psu> & you booted into that & it auto ran D:\SETUP.exe
<psu> If you were upgrading from win 3.1 or MSDOS, 
<psu> you just started D:\setup.exe manually
<psu> Tell me to shut up if I'm not helping ;-)
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<derek> psu thats probably right
<derek> i just deleted everything on machine pretty much
<derek> but dos
<derek> now will try the win98 boot cd again
<derek> if nothing else now i have a lightning fast dos 6.22 box here :)
<derek> rofl: like thats so useful ;)
<jamest> :)
<derek> hey jamest want a but?
<derek> er bug
Action: psu is just waiting for derek's patience to snap & the bootable Debian CDs to come out...
<jamest> a bug is ok, a butt....i don't swing that way dude
<derek> wtf now the win98 disk dont boot either
Action: derek lives the curse man
<derek> sigh
<derek> <?xml version="1.0"?>
<derek> <!--  GNUe Designer (0.2.0a)
<derek>       Saved on: 2002-02-09 01:33:20  -->
<derek> <^@f^@o^@r^@m^@ ^@t^@i^@t^@l^@e^@=^@"^@S^@t^@a^@t^@e^@ ^@M^@a^@n^@a^@g^@e^@m^@e
<derek> ^@n^@t^@"^@ ^@w^@i^@d^@t^@h^@=^@"^@3^@4^@"^@>^@
<derek> ^@ ^@ ^@<^@d^@a^@t^@a^@s^@o^@u^@r^@c^@e^@ ^@t^@a^@b^@l^@e^@=^@"^@s^@t^@a^@t^@e^@"^@ ^@n^@a^@m^@e^@=^@"^@d^@t^@s^@S^@t^@a^@t^@e^@"^@ ^@d^@a^@t^@a^@b^@a^@s^@e^@=
<derek> ^@"^@h^@c^@s^@_^@t^@e^@s^@t^@i^@n^@g^@"^@/^@>^@
<derek> ^@ ^@ ^@<^@p^@a^@g^@e^@ ^@n^@a^@m^@e^@=^@"^@p^@g^@S^@t^@a^@t^@e^@"^@>^@
<derek> ^@ ^@ ^@ ^@ ^@<^@b^@l^@o^@c^@k^@ ^@r^@o^@w^@s^@=^@"^@1^@0^@"^@ ^@n^@a^@m^@e^@=^@"^@b^@l^@k^@S^@t^@a^@t^@e^@"^@ ^@d^@a^@t^@a^@s^@o^@u^@r^@c^@e^@=^@"^@d^@t^@s^@s
<derek> ^@t^@a^@t^@e^@"^@>^@
<derek> is what i get when i save things in designer
<derek> if i open in emacs and replace ^@ with ''
<psu> it;s the unicode bug again by the looks of it
<derek> then the forms are fine and dandy
<derek> we had this before (on this machine)
<derek> and i dont recall if it never got fixed or if its resurfacing :)
<jamest> it's not ringing any bells with me
<jamest> did jcater look at last time?
<derek> perhaps
<jamest> ok
<derek> i bitched at him about it, dont know if we did anything about it
<jamest> i'll try and look at it a bit later
<jamest> my systems have been down
<derek> btw: jcater made a bad ass little script that makes ssh tunnels a pure joy
<jamest> and i need to get some work done :)
<derek> i hope to bundle it and release as gnue utility
<derek> it basically solves so many of my problems
<jamest> well....ssh related ones anyway
<derek> psu: it seems to work :)
<derek> jamest: actually mroe than ssh ones
<derek> it solves WAN issues
<derek> i kept whining about VPN's and such
<derek> this ssh tunneling toy solves a ton of issues for me and is i think going to be HUGE for gnue solution
<derek> s
<derek> basically i can now write forms that run locally but access postgres on another machine i have and ssh account for
<jamest> um
<derek> w/o doing ANYTHING on the server
<jamest> anyone using woody postgresql ?
<derek> i.e. postgres machines that only allow localhost connections
<derek> postgres may give you a woody,but you shouldnt brag about it in here ;)
<jamest> my main db was a source install
<jamest> of 6.5
<jamest> i needed 7.x to match my workstations woody clients
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<jamest> so i upgraded the server at home to latest woody
<jamest> and broke
<jamest>   wvdial
<jamest>   dhcpd
<jamest>   apache
<jamest>   postgrresql
<jamest> :(
<derek> yikes
<derek> bbl
<derek> psu many thanks
<Mr_You> ssh tunneling is great
<Mr_You> most people will probably want to use an always up or on demand VPN tho
<Mr_You> no big deal either
<Mr_You> ssh tunneling is good for "power users"
<Mr_You> (in regards to production environments)
<Mr_You> yeah
<chillywilly> how do you setup an ssh tunnel?
<chillywilly> or do just mean sshing into a box?
<chillywilly> or si this just a normal encrypted vpn connection
<chillywilly> nevermind I found a nice tutorial
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<chillywilly> that seems like a cool deal
<chillywilly> you connect locally and it forwards over a secure link
<chillywilly> pretty cool
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<chillywilly> derek: what sorta script did jcater write?
<chillywilly> one that sets up the tunnel for you?
<chillywilly> and connects to postgres?
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<derek> Mr_You: jcater's script makes a daemon really
<derek> so its ALWAYS up or like a VPN
<derek> for 'services'
<chillywilly> ok
<derek> chillywilly: it does two things
<derek> it creates an script to run as daemon
<derek> for hosts
<derek> then you edit that file to say what ports you wish to tunnel
<derek> then you run the daemon and viola
<chillywilly> I see
<chillywilly> cool
<chillywilly> this is in what python?
<derek> so i do tunnel now to gnuenterprise.org for 54320 mapped to 5432
<derek> and i do tunnel to gnue.org for 9999 mapped to 5432
<chillywilly> which is the postgres port right?
<derek> so if i do
<derek> psql -h localhost (i get my machine)
<derek> i do
<derek> psql -h localhost -p 54320 (i get postgres on ash)
<derek> i do
<derek> psql -h localhost -p 9999 (i get postgres on goats)
<chillywilly> neat
<derek> in my connections.conf file i just set
<derek> host=localhost
<derek> port=9999
<derek> and my forms run locally (very fast) but hit remotely goats postgres machine like its localhost
<derek> very spiffy
<derek> you can do irc, smtp and others too
<chillywilly> so then forms can tranparently ssh tunnle connect to some db?
<derek> yip
<chillywilly> kewl
<chillywilly> that's a very nice solution
<derek> btw: its just bash/sed/awk to create the files and such
<chillywilly> uhuh
<derek> i.e. like mryou said ssh tunneling is cool but for power users
<derek> cause its so many damn parameters and stuff
<derek> what jcaters script does is automate all that
<derek> so that dummies like me can use it no problem w/o having to read docs :)
<chillywilly> well I just read a tutorial on how to set it up
<derek> um jcater's script is easier
<derek> you have an account on ash?
<derek> is this thing on
<derek> or did i loose my connection?
<chillywilly> yes
<chillywilly> yes I have an account I mean
<chillywilly> dpes ash have hardware  RAID?
<chillywilly> er, does
<derek> um 
Action: derek doesnt recall
<derek> i think it might be software
<chillywilly> show 2 mass storage controller deveices on the pci bus
<chillywilly> er, shows
<chillywilly> btw
<chillywilly> ajmitch's patch has been posted to gnue@gnu.org
<chillywilly> I wonder if that is what jcater checked in
<chillywilly> anyone know?
<derek> dunno but last night aj mutter something like
<derek> chillywilly: is a lazy bizzyotch, f33r my m4d haXor skillz
<chillywilly> I think you are making that up
<chillywilly> punk
<chillywilly> it's good to see ajmitch participate
<chillywilly> but ye
<chillywilly> s
<chillywilly> I am a lazy bizzyotch
<ajmitch> hey
<chillywilly> hey dude
<derek> rofl
<ajmitch> you talking 'bout me?
<chillywilly> yep
<chillywilly> was that last checkin by jcater your code?
<derek> nah just talking 'for you'
<derek> ;)
<ajmitch> dunno
<chillywilly> for the mysql schema support
<ajmitch> i'm not on the commits list
<ajmitch> could be
Action: chillywilly looks
<ajmitch> since i did some stuff on that last night
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<chillywilly> bah, if onyl cvs used unified diffs
<chillywilly> it would be easier to make the comparison
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> cvs does
<ajmitch> ;)
<chillywilly> looks like the same code
<chillywilly> he should've given you credit in the commit message
<chillywilly> liek ppl normally do in a ChangeLog entry
<ajmitch> doesn't worry me
<derek> normally he does, which makes me think he didnt use aj's code
<derek> as i approved that email this afternoon
<ajmitch> ah right
<derek> so unless jason went to admin section
<derek> and read the mail he never saw it
Action: derek will slap jcater if he went to admin section and got the code and committed it but didnt take time to 'approve' the message ;)
Action: derek hates the annoying email approval stuff
<ajmitch> sorry :)
<derek> i would rather have the spam 
<chillywilly> yea
<ajmitch> forgot that i subbed with one email, sent with another
<chillywilly> me too
<derek> i.e. we turned on 'must be subscribed' to prevent spam
<chillywilly> you cna just filoeter the crap out
<chillywilly> er, filter
<derek> but approving messages is more headache than approving real emails :)
<chillywilly> hurd lists let anyone post
<ajmitch> hmm, code looks similar but not quite the same
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> I find it real funny that you both worked on the smae thing if that's the case
<chillywilly> ;P
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> anyway gotta go, bbl
<chillywilly> why do I keep getting ^Ms at the ends of the message header lines?
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<chillywilly> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 01:18:51 +1300^M
<chillywilly> From: Andrew Mitchell <ajmitch@dunedin.lug.net.nz>^M
<chillywilly> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i^M
<chillywilly> To: gnue@gnu.org^M
<chillywilly> that's wacky
<dtm> harro.
<chillywilly> sup
<dtm> chillywilly: whirred.
<chillywilly> what's the dilly yo
<dtm> i'm hungry!
<chillywilly> me too
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Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<jamest> ash is sw raid
<chillywilly> ok
<jamest> whoever added mysql schema support...thanks
<jamest> ajmitch that is :)
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<Yurik> re
<jamest> hi
<Yurik> jamest: hi
Action: Yurik is examining crypto issues
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<Yurik> dsmith: hi
<dsmith> Greetings Yurik
<derek> hmmmm 
<derek> compaq is evil
<derek> have you ever seen software bios
<derek> that is on the harddrive?
<Yurik> hehe
<derek> sigh its evil
Action: derek hates hardware
Action: derek needs a floppy drive
<derek> er cd rom
<derek> shit it really does that
<derek> How do I access the bios or setup on a Compaq deskpro 2000 Pentium 133 desktop P.C.?
<derek> I run Windows 95 B, 32 mb edo ram and 1.2 GB HD. I tried the F10 key, disconnecting keyboard and reconnecting; nothing seems to enable access to the setup. Any advice appreciated.
<derek> Wim
<derek> Was the drive on this machine repartitioned ? If so you may have lost the Compaq setup partition and it's info. Go to Compaq site and search out the info for your system, there should be fix files to download and reset your system,
<derek> BEWARE that to rebuild the special compaq partition will involve wiping all your data and programs from the drive. Then you will have to reinstall everything again.
<dsmith> derek: Don't play with compaq, they are evil.
<Yurik> do not use "white" hardware, it is much more simpler :-)
<derek> dsmith: no kidding
<derek> got two compaqs from a friend
<derek> he wanted me to fix one for his daughter i coudl keep the other one
<derek> the one was p133 32mb RAM w/ CDROM
<derek> got windows installed on it for him
<derek> gutted the second one and cleaned it up real nice
<dsmith> derek: Everything compaw does is tweaked a little be to be non-standard.
<derek> i have a ton of better boards hwere but of course the case is propreitary too
<derek> so i cant use them
<jamest> dude
<derek> figured its a p100
<jamest> ash's case was like $26
<dsmith> s/compaw/compaq   s/little be/little bit/
<derek> so i dump some memory into it and give it to church
<jamest> allstarshop.com
<derek> well there was 2.2gig drive in it
<jamest> dude
<jamest> better yet
<derek> i have a p200 128mb CD rom sound etc prepped for church but only had a 500mb drive
<derek> so i swapped drives
<derek> hahahaha big mistake (seeing how bios is on the drive)
<derek> hate to 'throw' this machine out
<jamest> well
<jamest> hang on
<derek> but i dont have a cdrom for it, and so installing a new os will be a bitch (read floppies)
<derek> and i cant get a good memory config (me cant tell what memory is what) 
<derek> i can boot it in dos though
<derek> then get to the c drive :)
<derek> it just wont boot the c: drive
<jamest> http://www.gtbcomputers.com
<derek> i still DESPERATELY need a case for my PC
<jamest> had p2-266's w/ 64MB ram, 4.x GB HD, CD-ROM, 10/100NIC, on board video
<jamest> $165
<jamest> dell
<jamest> i have 2 of them here
<jamest> they are non-std case
<jamest> but damn cheep
<derek> yeah but i dont want to spend money
<derek> these were given for free
<jamest> lol
<jamest> ah
<derek> i will have to break down and spend some cash to get a case for my amd so i can get a machine working here
Action: derek wishes he knew what was wrong with phantom pc
<derek> i assume motherboard but if its not and just memory i will be pissed
<derek> pretty sure its not memory
Action: derek has too many half computers laying around
<jamest> :)
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Action: ajmitch yawns
Action: derek is gonna try to get debian working on his alpha processor
<derek> so i can put it in kitchen
<ajmitch> heh fun
<derek> jamest you around
<derek> i need super sys admin help
<jamest> hi
<derek> booting up this alpha for first time in over a year
<derek> it has redhat 5.2 on it
<ajmitch> hey jamest
<derek> i have a STRONG feeling i wont know the root password :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> what does the alpha use for a bootloader?
<derek> and if i can into this in single user mode can i install debian from it? readily
<derek> ARC
<derek> i think
<derek> i dont know jack about it
<jamest> um
<derek> i followed instructions from a webpage to get 5.2 loaded on it :)
Action: jamest hasn't touched an alpha
<derek> what is odd is that these little fellers
<derek> had inline everything
<derek> i bought a scsci encloser
<derek> and scsi drive cdrom
<derek> and put drive, cdrom in encloser
<derek> its actually a sweet little setup
<derek> i did enclosure as i wanted the cd rom
<derek> now i probably dont need cd rom and wish i had the piece to put scsi inline (i still might be able to)
<jamest> http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/alpha/install
<derek> as the multia completely is pretty much smaller than my laptop
<derek> i have alpha cds
<derek> ok im at a login
Action: derek has no idea even what to guess as a root password
<jamest> if the system is like a sun the root passwd is also in hardware
<jamest> and thats a bitch to bypass if you forget it 
<derek> hey i was able to login as me
<jamest> involves a prom burner IIRC
Action: jamest makes a point not to forget a sun root passwd
<derek> damn this is wild, stuff is in odd places
<derek> ethernet works
<derek> hey i have root
Action: derek is AMAZED
<derek> is there a way to install debian from within redhat?
<jamest> i have no idea
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<ajmitch> woohoo, if you have root you should be able to install
<jamest> um
<jamest> look at that guide
<jamest> if you have the cd
<jamest> more than likely you can boot from the bios
<jamest> it seems more like a sun
<jamest> where the bios is pretty powerfull
<jamest> and you can issue commands 
<jamest> to boot from where you like
<jamest> say the cd :)
<dtm> hi guys
<dtm> derek: you'll have to look up the bios files (probably a boot floppy image) on compaq's web site.  it could be a bear to locate.
<dtm> derek: for the compaq i had long ago (my first linux system) i had to find the right one, then enable enough bios functions so it'd boot linux, and then rely on manual config of linux for it to work right
<dtm> like, to see the whole HD because the bios didn't allow user programmable geometry
<dtm> then kernel 2.0 came out and it had autodetect ide geometry, yauy
<dtm> yay
<dtm> derek: sounds like you should replace the 500 mb hd back in, and snag the bios partition off of that, eh?
<derek> nah
<derek> i will throw the machine in the trash before i put that much work in it
<dtm> oh,ok
<dtm> you might donate it somehwere else; someone will have the motivation
<dtm> or perhaps it can run linux which can autodetect stuff
<jamest> i've had to do that w/ large HDs on old motherboars
<dtm> i have a broken multia.  anyone here wanna buy it?
<jamest> the bios would hang on HDs larger than 20GB
<dtm> ajmitch: last i knew, alpha uses 'milo' to boot
<ajmitch> thought so
<ajmitch> i have some friends here running debian on alpha
<dtm> that was in the redhat 5.x days
<dtm> derek: so what's the next step for developing g4c
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<jamest> hi
<gene9> hi
<Yurik> gene9: hi here :-]
<gene9> ah. oh. #ge
<jamest> gene9: you new to GNUe?
<gene9> yes
<jamest> any questions or issues?
<gene9> arr... ahh... not now.
<jamest> ok
<jamest> may i ask how you found out about gnue?
<gene9> yes ;-)
<jamest> cool
<jamest> How did you find out about GNUe?
<jamest> :)
<dtm> gene9: NO!  dont do it, man
<dtm> jamest: supposin' it's none of your dad blamed bidness, sucka!
<dtm> gene9: he just wants to take all your gnue away from you!
<jamest> dtm: not at all
<chillywilly> nah, that's my job
<dtm> oh ok
<dtm> nm then
<jamest> i want gene9 to have all the GNUe they can handle
<jamest> bwahahaha
<derek> ba
<derek> so is there way to install debian
<derek> on a red hurt install?
<derek> i.e. im in redhat 5.2 can i put a debian disk in and install debian over the top of it?
<derek> btw: 5.2 is scary looking :)
<gene9> ahhh... ahhh... Accounting...Budgeting 
<gene9> LOL
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<jamest> derek: i'd just blow away the old install completely
<jamest> not try to install over it
<jamest> keep the drive setup but re mkfs the filesystems
<jamest> during the debian install
<jamest> again: i've not touched an alpha
<derek> ok
Action: derek wished he could find good tutorial
<derek> btw: when i said install over i meant replace
<derek> it appears i left the disks at work anyhow
<derek> so it will have to wait a few days
<jamest> you can't use the bios console
<jamest> and boot from it?
<derek> im sure i could
<derek> if i knew how to use the bios console
<derek> its been over a year since i touched this
<derek> actually over 3 years
<derek> iirc
<jamest> lol
<derek> put it this way redhat 5.2 was NEW
<ajmitch> hehe
<jamest> didn't that url i gave show the bios commands
<derek> dunno
<jamest> also on a Sun you can type help 
Action: derek will have to play with it another day
<derek> for now i have plenty other things to do
<derek> my goal is to make it my kitchen computer
<derek> web, email
<derek> and have it function as wireless base station
Action: ajmitch wonders how to build a nice form for data entry
<jamest> what's with this channel?
<ajmitch> i guess it's a case of RTFM? 
<ajmitch> dunno
<jamest> derek and jcater both want PCs in the kitchen
<ajmitch> nothign wrong with that
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<jamest> ajmitch: what database?
<ajmitch> jamest: mysql
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<ajmitch> i have a working form, i just need to make it nicer :)
<jamest> what do you want to add?
<ajmitch> the wizard eventually worked well
<ajmitch> dunno at the moment :)
<jamest> i know a little bit about forms and may be able to help
<jamest> what kinda data?
<ajmitch> don't worry about it at the moment, i'm not meant to be here :)
<ajmitch> just user data, names, addresses, etc
<ajmitch> very very simple stuff
<jamest> ah
<jamest> a fewe things I do
<jamest> i typically add case="upper" to my entries
<jamest> so that the data always goes in consistant
<ajmitch> okee
<jamest> then on addresses i use the following
<jamest> in my form 
<jamest> i add this datasource
<jamest>   <datasource database="prod" name="zipcodelookup" table="zipcode"/>
<jamest>         <trigger name="Trigger_1" type="PRE-FOCUSOUT">
<jamest>           results = zipcodelookup.simpleQuery({"zip":self})
<jamest>           if len(results):
<jamest>             blckdtsrcinsurance_company.ntrycity=results[0]['city']
<jamest>             blckdtsrcinsurance_company.ntrystate=results[0]['state']
<jamest>           else:
<jamest>             blckdtsrcinsurance_company.ntrycity=""
<jamest>             blckdtsrcinsurance_company.ntrystate=""
<jamest>         </trigger>
<ajmitch> k
<jamest> with that trigger attached to the zip entry 
<ajmitch> looks like python :)
<jamest> i make the state, city fields readonly
<jamest> so that the form jumps to zipcode
<jamest> 2 things
<jamest> er 3 things
<jamest> 1) it is python
<jamest> 2) this is of course only good example for lamericans
<jamest> 3) the above is completely undocumented - it's what I've been working on in cvs
<ajmitch> ah right
<jamest> you can get a feel for what you can do with triggers
<jamest> from the common/doc/ dir
<jamest> there is a trigger doc in there that describes how this almost works :)
<ajmitch> sounds good
<jamest> you running cvs?
<jamest> but i think it'd be easier to tell me what you want to do
<ajmitch> sorry, friend arrived
Action: ajmitch must be off :)
<jamest> l8r
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<chillywilly> wb ajmitch
<ajmitch> feh
<chillywilly> eh?
Action: ajmitch said feh
<ajmitch> got a problem with me saying feh?
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<jamest> hello
Action: ajmitch leaves
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<jcater> 'sup all
<jcater> dudes!
<jcater> when did aj do the mysql patch?
Action: jcater is half-tempted to back out his patch and add aj's
<jcater> well
<jcater> looks like no one's home
<jcater> nite
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<chillywilly> heh, so they did hack the same thing
<chillywilly> that's too funny
--- Sun Feb 10 2002