[00:30] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<derek> damn missed jcater again
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<psu> hi all
<psu> guess everyone's asleep
<Yurik> hi
<Isomer> nah
<Isomer> the strange kiwi's are awake
<psu> but getting ready to go to bed, I guess
<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> most sane kiwi's are
<Isomer> the coders are just getting out of bed
<psu> true ;-)
<Isomer> :)
<psu> I wonder what a graph of local time vs code lines written 
<psu> for a typical free software project would look like#
<psu> s/freesoftware/
<Yurik> Sun Feb 10 11:05:26 EET 2002
<Yurik> ops
<psu> probably a bell curve, peaking at 02:00 to 04:00 ;-)
<Isomer> heh
<Isomer> mine would peak around midnight I think
<Isomer> I tend to code from 10pm to about 2am
<Isomer> I should do a graph of my CVS commits :)
<psu> heh
<psu> I'm sure if I had the time/interest
<psu> I could do some stats off the commit-gnue mailing list
<psu> grep all the Date: lines
<psu> of course, this assumes everyone is in same time zone as the CVS box
<Isomer> heh
<psu> http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/commit-gnue/
<psu> full archive is 15MB
<psu> OK, I've gone off that idea ;-)
<psu> us dial-up users get easily discouraged
Action: psu checks cable company's web site again
<psu> We're sorry, but ntl:home Broadband Internet is not yet available in your area
<psu> We appreciate that many of our customers will be keen to enjoy the benefits of this service. We continue to invest in upgrading our network to deliver the highest quality service and are committed to providing it to you as soon as possible. 
[03:20] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<psu> This, as you can imagine, takes time and therefore it may be a number of months before we can confirm availability of the service in your area. Thank you for your patience. 
<psu> Heh, and there was me thinking it had something to do with the GBP 18 billion debt they were carrying...
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<Yurik> FunkyTrix: hi
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<FunkyTrix> hi Yurik
<psu> hi all
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<Isomer> anyone up at this hour?
<Yurik> yes
<Isomer> under Windows they have various widgets which they can connect to a SQL database, "Data Aware Objects" or something.  I believe that Java has something similar.  Other than gnue, is there anything similar?
<Isomer> or, is the solution that GNUe provides, portable to other programs other than the forms builder?
<Isomer> or, is the solution that GNUe provides, portable to other programming languages?
<Isomer> For example, can I use corba to connect to geas to do this?
<Yurik> sorry, I can't advise anything concerning GNUe, since I'm not a GNUe participant, I coordinate a competitive project
<Yurik> :)
<Isomer> Does your competitive project provide this?
<Isomer> (heh, damned if you do... :)
<Yurik> well, our structure heavily differs from GNUe's, but we'll provide as much choices how can you use the functionality from the outside as possible, if I understand you correctly
<Yurik> s/choices/variants/
<Isomer> well, I want to develop applications in C or C++, and have access to widgets that don't require me to handle all the database handling.
<Yurik> data handling is hidden into the model in our model (we'll even have no relational database used)
<Yurik> (sorry, my English sucks a lot)
<Yurik> s/into the model/into the system/
<Yurik> I suppose it is impolite to discuss the competitive project here...
<Yurik> but if understand you in the proper way, you'll be able to program your specific applications in C/C++, both objects functionality and client applications
<Isomer> Ok funky
<Isomer> personally I think it's good to discuss "competing" projects
<Isomer> for precisely the same reason I assume you're here :)
<Yurik> well, I'm here to monitor GNUe, just to wondering what guys are doing :)
<Isomer> and I'm sure they'd be interested to hear how you're going too :)
<Isomer> keep 'em all on their toes :)
<Yurik> unfortunately, we can't compete with GNUe really, cause we have started coding recently (we spent several monthes only for design)
<Isomer> Shrug
Action: Isomer wishes all projects the best of luck
<Yurik> hehe
Action: Yurik pauses xmms and is at phone..
<Yurik> damn
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<AnDarkon> Hi Smith
<dsmith> greetns
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<AnDarkon> Hi wiskle
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<zwiskle> hi
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<derek> psu
<derek> ========
<jamest> ksu
<jamest> --------
<derek> there is something called cvsgraph, will give you url next time i see you (already closed my book marks
<jamest> :)
<derek> that does cvscommit stats graphically
<derek> ======
<derek> =
<derek> bbac = be back after church
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<drochaid> lol
<jamest> he wishes
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<Yurik> re
<jamest> hi
<Yurik> jamest: hi
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<jan> Hi guys!
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<jamest> hello everyone
<jan> Hi Jamest!
<jan> Do you have any idea, how to switch between blocks in HTML mode? I dont want to use javascript.
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<AnDarkon> I've reviewed the MGP and BPP documents and came away with questions. How/towhom should I address these questions?
<jamest> MGP BPP?
<AnDarkon> Module Guide Proposal (Hi James, btw) and Base Package Proposal
<jamest> AnDarkon: who wrote them....
Action: jamest is not sure which docs we're referencing
Action: jamest hopes it isn't him or he'll fell dumb :)
<AnDarkon> MGP: Reinhard and Neil (edited by Derek)
<AnDarkon> same for BPP
<jamest> ahhh
<jamest> ok
<jamest> those are the most recent docs
<AnDarkon> Yep :-)
<jamest> and it would have to be one of those two
<jamest> of derek 
<jamest> of  = or
<jamest> you'd get the most intelligent answers from neil or reinhard
<AnDarkon> Right, and how would they prefer my communication? by email, here or to the mailing list for developers?
<jamest> not that derek isn't intelligent it's just he's not as close to docuemnts
<jamest> and I'm clueless on the current docs (spend too much time in the tools :)
<AnDarkon> I didn't think he would be any slouch in the wetware department :-)
<jan> Bye.
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<jamest> exit
<jamest> whoops
<jamest> wrong win
<AnDarkon> Yeah, the brake is on the left while the accelerator is on the right ;-)
<jamest> :)
<AnDarkon> what does GNUe have working so far?
<jamest> Tools wise....
<jamest>   forms
<jamest>   designer
<jamest>   reports (limited)
<AnDarkon> There's a benefit of having GNUe available for my work; I can concentrate mostly on the Time & Attendance (realtime)  module without having to worry about the frontend or the DB aspects
<jamest>   geas (has performance issues)
<AnDarkon> the designer is for the forms or is that also for biz logic?
<jamest> right now it's forms only
<jamest> we're having interface/performance issues with geas
<AnDarkon> In what way?
<jamest> and neil and reinhard are busy with real life
<jamest> the interface to geas needs work
<jamest> and the performance is terrible
<jamest> the security is terrible
<AnDarkon> the geas itself is the whole point, isn't it? what with the business logic/rules
<jamest> reinhard and neil are fixing these issues but they inherited the system
<jamest> so it's slow going
Action: drochaid wonders what 'real life' is
<AnDarkon> drochaid: usually involves another person
<drochaid> uhm .. nope, got me there
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<AnDarkon> Hi Jason
<jcater> hello
<jamest> <jamest> object attribute = field
<jamest> <jamest> object child = master/detail relationship
<jamest> <jamest> let me take this main channel
<jamest> <AnDarkon> Ok
<jamest> argh!
<AnDarkon> heh
<jamest> my cut n paste failed
<jamest> hi jcater
<AnDarkon> it happens
<jcater> jamest: 'sup?
<AnDarkon> I'm following so far, James
<jamest> AnDarkon: can you paste it
<jamest> i already closed the windows
<jamest> jcater: form'ing
<AnDarkon> Sure
<AnDarkon> <jamest> so when dealing w/ objects
<AnDarkon> <jamest> internally i see the following mappings
<AnDarkon> <jamest> object = table
<AnDarkon> <jamest> object instance = row in a table
<AnDarkon> <jamest> object method = trigger
<AnDarkon> <jamest> object attribute = field
<AnDarkon> <jamest> object child = master/detail relationship
<AnDarkon> Jason: just so that you know... I am Andrew M... but not the ones you know of :-) I'm just a newcomer with big plans for realtime T&A
<jamest> he's asking how objects will fit into forms
<AnDarkon> Right
Action: AnDarkon resumes listening
<jamest> and I'm telling me how I see them working
<jamest> so anyway at that point
<jamest> forms looks at objects and tables in the same mannor
<jcater> another andrew?
Action: jcater runs scared
<jcater> :)
<jamest> they both have the same capabilities and only the terminology changes a little
<AnDarkon> Just call me Andy :-)
<AnDarkon> www.darand.com/andrew if you want to know my capabilities/qualifications
<AnDarkon> yes, from the forms' perspective, the object always looks/behaves the same while the internal workings of each object may be different for each DB type
<AnDarkon> brb gotta give the neighbor a jump start
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Action: Yurik wrote 7 new pages in the specification...
Action: Yurik got tired
<AnDarkon> Ok, I'm back
<AnDarkon> Yurik: which specification?
<Yurik> AnDarkon: not GNUe's
<AnDarkon> Ah :-)
<AnDarkon> never mind, then
<AnDarkon> jamest: I had the impression that the forms were also UI-agnostic that it could run under web, X, etc
<jamest> it should be
<jamest> at one time the curses and GUI systems both worked
<jamest> but currently the only one working is wxpython
<jamest> that is going to be fixed soon
<jamest> in fact
<AnDarkon> jamest: How tightly coupled is the forms to the wxpython?
<jamest> not at all
Action: Yurik thinks that UI is not very important thing. Most of the system in enterprise management should run absolutely automatically
<jamest> http://131.220.92.80/~jan/gfc.php
<AnDarkon> so the API to the forms is pretty much standard?
<jamest> jan is working on a php forms client
<AnDarkon> Yurik: I agree. it just so happens that my realtime T&A needs some UI in different forms: Win32, DOS, Web, etc
<jamest> and the interface to the UI system is fairly clean, it needs work 
<AnDarkon> in what way?
<jamest> but it's on the TODO list
<jamest> events should pass a hashed string id for ui elements instead of the python object
<jamest> so that the UI doesn't require access to the GFObjects
<jamest> man
<jamest> jans form client is too cool
<AnDarkon> which browser should I be using? it doesn't seem as cool as you make it be :-)
<jamest> it doesn't work?
<AnDarkon> it works... after a fashion
<AnDarkon> I'm using mozilla
<jamest> i use konqueror
<jamest> what is cool about it
<jamest> is that his goal is too make it look/behave as close to uiwxpython as possble
<jamest> and he's doing a pretty good job of it
<AnDarkon> I guess :-)
<AnDarkon> It took some data
Action: Yurik is wonderning why people use PHP... 
Action: Yurik is also wonderning, does GNUe has its own web connectivity
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<Yurik> reinhard: hi
<reinhard> hi all
<jamest> hi reinhard
<reinhard> AnDarkon: you have questions on our docs?
<jamest> AnDarkon has questions about some docs you've done
<AnDarkon> LOL
<jamest> ooo
<AnDarkon> Indeed I do
<jamest> you read the logs ;)
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> i am here for ~20 min
<AnDarkon> Okay, lemme get my notes, they're right here
<AnDarkon> Okay, the GCD files are stored as files; has the discussion about storing them in a database come up and if so, how was it resolved?
<reinhard> the discussion has come up
<reinhard> the main points were
<reinhard> - storing them in database would be big change and take a lot of time
<reinhard> - we need files anyway to "bootstrap"
Action: AnDarkon listens, nodding with each point so far
<reinhard> - storing them in database would mean we need a comfortable way to edit it (via a form)
<AnDarkon> and for most programmers, that's almost taboo heh
<reinhard> - with gcd files we have all those un*x possibilities from grep over awk to sed
<reinhard> - having in ascii file lets you edit the definition w/ vi or emacs even over 9600 modem line or something like that
<reinhard> the final decision was
<reinhard> 1. for now let them be in gcd files
<reinhard> 2. maybe later rethink about moving to database
<reinhard> <fin>
<AnDarkon> My question was based on the fact that we might want to have a distributed network of application servers
<AnDarkon> then again, nfs could solve the problem rather neatly for shared access to the GCD files
<reinhard> yes
<AnDarkon> next question... what's the smallest resolution for the TIME type?
<AnDarkon> I'm hoping it'll be in milliseconds or I'll have to extend it for the T&A module
<reinhard> we know too little about databases
<reinhard> in fact it will depend on the database
<reinhard> but we can only "guarantee" the least common determinator
<AnDarkon> I know enough to know DBs aren't panceas to everything :-)
<reinhard> we have definitions like
<reinhard> "char must be able to store strings up to 255 bytes"
<reinhard> and for every db geas must choose a type that is able to do this
<reinhard> but we have not defined the time type so far
<AnDarkon> Ok
<AnDarkon> Maybe I got here in the nick of time (pun unintended)
<reinhard> :)
<AnDarkon> Okay, next question
<AnDarkon> BPP, page 10, type person defines name_prefix as a char<8> but doesn't use the name_prefix class... oversight?
<reinhard> btw you could make a proposal for the definition of date and time (if you do: please do a realistic one, one that is doable with all databases)
<reinhard> no oversight
<reinhard> name_prefix class should store often used name-prefixes
<reinhard> like
<AnDarkon> I know what you speak of, Oracle doesn't support datetime as well as Informix can; in the worse case scenario, it could be a CHAR field
<reinhard> Mr.
<reinhard> Mrs.
<reinhard> Herr
<reinhard> Frau
<reinhard> but it's only a list where you copy from
<reinhard> and in the person class the filed can contain values that are not in the name_prefix class
<AnDarkon> Ah, so the name similarities is just a coincidence
<reinhard> like
<reinhard> Her Majesty
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> not a coincidence
<AnDarkon> and where is Federated States of Micronesia? :-)
<reinhard> the field is copied from the other table for comfort
<reinhard> micronesia is in the pacific ocean IIRC
<AnDarkon> ah, okay :-)
<reinhard> :)
<AnDarkon> there's a statement: org::address [] address;
<AnDarkon> can you please tell me what that is? the [] tells me it might be a list of addresses, but I don't want to assume
<reinhard> you're right it's a list of addresses
<AnDarkon> variable list, right?
<reinhard> every person can be assigned more than one address
<reinhard> yes 1:n
<AnDarkon> Okay :-) Glad my wetware is still operating
<reinhard> wetware?
<AnDarkon> <--- points to his brainpan
<reinhard> ah
<AnDarkon> page 30 of BPP, &languagedata;
<AnDarkon> that's it, just like that...
<reinhard> :)
<AnDarkon> one of these `yet to be defined'?
<reinhard> um
<reinhard> sorry i think i don't understand
Action: reinhard has no printed version and therefore doesn't know what page 30 is
<AnDarkon> 7.1.9 Default Data\\ &languagedata; \\ and then there's Chapter 8...
<AnDarkon> nothing more, nothing less so I'm not sure if it really means something or that it's just a mere placeholder
<reinhard> ah oh
<reinhard> i think this is a mistake in the sgml
<reinhard> looks like an include that didn't work
<AnDarkon> Okay :-) then I'll disregard it
<reinhard> we _do_ have a list of all languages w/ their iso code in cvs IIRC
<AnDarkon> That's fine; I just don't want to assume anything
<AnDarkon> Next question :-)
<reinhard> ok
<AnDarkon> for the class currency, the default_decimals is set to whatever the company wants it to be
<AnDarkon> and in the event of a change in management and/or accounting procedures they want to change the decimal position. Have this ever come up in a discussion or two?
<reinhard> no
<reinhard> the default_decimals is specific for the currency
<reinhard> not to the management
<reinhard> like
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<reinhard> us dollar will always have 2
<AnDarkon> reinhard: Ah, I understand now :-)
<reinhard> egypt dunnowhat will always have 3
<AnDarkon> I was mixing it up with the decimal values held in sales tables and so on
<reinhard> that was what we intended
<reinhard> that == what i said
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<Yurik> chillywilly_: hi
<AnDarkon> chillywilly_: I am Andrew M... Boo! ;-)
<reinhard> the precision of the values can differ from default_decimals for certain cases
<AnDarkon> reinhard: Right, my clarity on this matter has greatly improved
<reinhard> cool
<reinhard> gotta leave now
<reinhard> hope i could answer most of your questions
<reinhard> will be back tomorrow
<reinhard> l8r all
<AnDarkon> Take care, reinhard and thanks! :-) (you answered 'em all!)
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<jamest> hello
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Action: chillywilly wonders what he is chooped liver?
<chillywilly> er, chopped
<chillywilly> I helped clean up the code too, dagnabit I have proof
<chillywilly> sup my peeps
<jamest> hi
<chillywilly> anyone home?
<derek> hi
<chillywilly> dudes
<chillywilly> my free software bretheren :)
Action: chillywilly loves it when a spam message says: "note: this is not spam email"....haw!
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<chillywilly> ello ajmitch_
<ajmitch_> hi
<ajmitch_> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/02/09/2345258.shtml?tid=109 <-- sounds evil
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> let's see
<ajmitch_> MS playing silly buggers again :)
<derek> ms evil?
<chillywilly> wow, pretty crummy
<ajmitch_> nah... couldn't be...
<chillywilly> you actually read slushdot?
<ajmitch_> only when bored :)
Action: ajmitch_ is sitting at a win95 box at themoment
<chillywilly> ugh
<chillywilly> why?
<chillywilly> you at a client's or something?
<ajmitch_> nope
Action: chillywilly is updating his ODMG notes like a good little GNUer
<chillywilly> I hope someone appreciates this
Action: ajmitch_ is not a GNUer
<chillywilly> especially when I start coding
<chillywilly> it
Action: ajmitch_ is at parents place
<chillywilly> so far I have spent $39.95 and a LOT of hours reading and taking notes
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> I'm sorry $39.95 plus shipping
<ajmitch_> so start coding :P
<chillywilly> after I get through this book and look at the c++ and java bindings...then I should have a good idea of how I want to do it
<ajmitch_> alright
Action: chillywilly is seriously thinking of doing python bindings ;)
<chillywilly> or GObject, but python is more OO and supports exceptions
<chillywilly> and could easily interface with gnue common
<chillywilly> decisions, decisions
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<chillywilly> hi neilt
<neilt> hello
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<jan> Hi everybody!
<jamest> hey jan
<chillywilly> whew
<chillywilly> chris farley still makes me laugh
Action: chillywilly watched black sheep
<derek> hi all
<derek> jcater: bug action
<derek> when i save files in designer every character is followed by ^@
Action: jcater dances to the "bug action"
<chillywilly> is that a command he understands?
<derek> i think we had that before on this machine
<derek> i dont recall if we ever fixed it
<chillywilly> jcater: consume donut
<derek> but iirc its about unicode something or other
<jcater> yip
<jcater> it's saving your file as unicode
<jcater> once again, 
<jcater> how'd you do that?????
<derek> evil ass badness
<chillywilly> if there's a will masta will find the way
<derek> i work hard to be such a buggy tester
Action: derek doesnt feel appreciated 
<derek> ;)
Action: derek while sniffling mutters, "you just dont understand how hard i work, to make a system this hosed up"
<jcater> seriously
<jcater> how'd you do that?
<chillywilly> funny thing is it gets that way just by you looking at it
Action: jcater is a southern redneck
<jcater> southern redneck ==> (implies) only works w/ascii
<jcater> only works w/ascii ==> dunno crap re unicode
<derek> jcater: i ASSUME its because i COMPILED EVERYTHING from scratch
<jcater> therefore, we can conclude
<jcater> jcater ==> dunno creap re unicode
<derek> i.e. i was too redneck to add an option to say --with-redneck
<derek> did you see the list mail on unicode 
<derek> and that we should never use str() and related functions?
<derek> and code on how to work around it
<jcater> um
<jcater> I don;t fully agree w/that
<derek> me either
<derek> i just asked if you saw it :)
<jcater> that will KILL performance if you aren't using codecs
<derek> btw: is there way to get env variables for python
<derek> from python commandline?
<jcater> os.environ
<jcater> os.environ['PATH']
<chillywilly> rtfm
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> if os.environ['LOGNAME'] == 'dneighbo': 
<derek> >>> print os.environ
<derek> {'USERNAME': '', 'DCLCVS': '-e emacs -d\n:pserver:anonymous@cvs.dcl.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/dcl', 'GNUE': '/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/gnuef/client/', 'GNUECVS': '-e emacs -d\n:pserver:dneighbors@subversions.gnu.org:/home/cvs', 'LESSOPEN': '|/usr/bin/lesspipe.sh %s', 'LOGNAME': 'dneighbo', 'HOSTTYPE': 'i386', 'INPUTRC': '/etc/inputrc', 'MAIL': '/var/spool/mail/dneighbo', 'STCVS': '-e emacs -d\n:pserver:dneighbors@gnue.org:/var/cvs/santa
<derek> er', 'PATH': '/usr/local/bin:/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin:/home/dneighbo/bin:/usr/local/pgaccess', 'BASH_ENV': '/home/dneighbo/.bashrc', '_': '/usr/local/bin/python2.2', 'DISPLAY': ':0', 'HCSCVS': '-e emacs -d\n:pserver:dneighbors@gnue.org:/var/cvs/hcs', 'LANG': 'en_US', 'TERM': 'xterm', 'SHELL': '/bin/bash', 'SESSION_MANAGER': 'local/latitude.delphigeek.com:/tmp/.ICE-unix/888', 'SHLVL': '4', 'HOSTNAME':
<derek> itude.delphigeek.com', 'HISTSIZE': '1000', 'WINDOWID': '71303302', 'GCASHCVS': '-e emacs -d\n:pserver:cvs@cvs.gnucash.org:/home/cvs/cvsroot', 'EDITOR': 'emacs', 'COLORTERM': 'gnome-terminal', 'HRAOACVS': '-e emacs -d\n:pserver:dneighbors@gnue.org:/var/cvs/hraoa', 'OSTYPE': 'Linux', 'AXISCVS': '-e emacs -d\n:pserver:dneighbo@cvs.axispt.com:/data/cvs', 'LS_COLORS': 'no=00:fi=00:di=01;34:ln=01;36:pi=40;33:so=01;35:bd=40;33;01:cd=40;33;0
<derek> 40;31;01:ex=01;32:*.tar=01;31:*.tgz=01;31:*.arj=01;31:*.taz=01;31:*.lzh=01;31:*.zip=01;31:*.z=01;31:*.Z=01;31:*.gz=01;31:*.bz2=01;31:*.deb=01;31:*.rpm=01;31:*.jpg=01;35:*.png=01;35:*.gif=01;35:*.bmp=01;35:*.ppm=01;35:*.tga=01;35:*.xbm=01;35:*.xpm=01;35:*.tif=01;35:*.png=01;35:*.mpg=01;35:*.avi=01;35:*.fli=01;35:*.gl=01;35:*.dl=01;35:', 'HOME': '/home/dneighbo', 'USER': 'dneighbo'}
<chillywilly> argh!
<derek> >>> 
<derek> oops
<derek> i meant python variable
<jcater> ??
<derek> not operating system ones :)
<jcater> sys.argv[0]
Action: jcater is scared when he sees latitude.delphigeek.com
<derek> old hostname
<derek> i.e. this laptop is nearly two years old
<derek> now all machines are based on goat phylum's and such
<chillywilly> http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/02/02/11/020211opfoster.xml
Action: chillywilly 's server's name id frell.dyndns.org
<chillywilly> s/id/is
<chillywilly> frell is from farscape in case you don't watch that show
<derek> brb: cooking kids dinner
<derek> bad news : wife is sick
<derek> good news : i got to spend all day with kids
<chillywilly> get to work then
<derek> bad news : i have reached my kid 'limit' for the day
<derek> good news : i get to gnue tonight :)
<chillywilly> poor baby
<derek> jcater: you be around in about 1 hour?
<derek> so we can trouble shoot the unicode stuff?
<jcater> um
<jcater> I may need to make a donut run
<jcater> but I'm sure I'll be around
<derek> um going to local shop?
<jcater> gibson's
<chillywilly> heh, a donut run
Action: derek called and they will let me phone in an order, but i havent yet
<jcater> do I need to supply that phone number again?
<chillywilly> that's funny
<jcater> really?
Action: derek was going to suprise you with free donuts one day, but felt too weird asking them to pay in advance
<derek> and next time you show up telling you they were on house
<jamest> derek: no way
<jamest> he's miine
<jamest> my bug is nastier
<derek> as i didnt know how 'well' they knew you
<jamest> as it effect both him and I
<derek> jamest: rofl
<derek> i have a work around
<jamest> your bug only affects people with weird machines
<jamest> ie you
<derek> btw: anyway i can get you guys to start using dcl?
<jamest> :)
<jamest> for?
<jcater> I use it at work
<jcater> I tried to use it to manage my kid
<jcater> but he won't cooperate
<derek> rofl
<chillywilly> hehe
<derek> yeah the 'sit still' module is still in development
<chillywilly> maybe I should try that
<chillywilly> do they have a 'settle down' module?
<derek> i checked in the shell of the 'dont touch that' module last week
<chillywilly> speaking of which
<chillywilly> scotty is bouncing off the wall right now
<jcater> chillywilly: bouncing off the wall?
<jcater> here in Tennessee it's illegal to throw children
<jcater> even if they do bounce back
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<chillywilly> I'm sorry you don't get our yankee expressions ;)
<chillywilly> I don't have to throw him, he just throws himself at the wall
<jcater> um, ok
<jcater> if you think the authorities will believe that
<jcater> <snicker>
<chillywilly> that's my story and I'm sticking to it
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<derek> rofl
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> jcater is always the smart ass isn't he?
Action: chillywilly puts jcater in a hard core trout-lock
<jcater> beats being the dumbass
<soulstompp> hi 
<chillywilly> I hope you're not trying to imply anything with that statement or you may find something in your mailbox
<soulstompp> I have a question, I just installed gnuenterprise from CVS
jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp319235.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
<soulstompp> and I have everything running now and I want to start toying with the forms portion to see if I can use this for some practice management software I am working on
<jamest> soulstompp: ok
<jamest> what can we do for you?
<soulstompp> is their a main .gfd file that I should run
<soulstompp> that will allow me to access the different packages
<soulstompp> I am just confused on where to go from here
<chillywilly> how can I get the LUG memebers off of perl ;)
<soulstompp> or if someone can point me to docs that I have missed I would appreciate it
<jamest> soulstompp: the packages for our biz apps?
<soulstompp> yeah the accounting for example
<derek> soulstompp: can you wait like 30 minutes till i get the kids in bed and wifey fed?
<derek> i think i can answer a lot for you
<soulstompp> not a problem
<derek> ok will be back in < 30
<soulstompp> thanks I will be here
<derek> ok
<derek> have pizza in oven and kids all ready so have 15 minutes before have to run again for a few :)
<derek> soulstompp: i am going to assume 'practice management' == some sort of doctor/lawyer ERP?
<derek> soulstompp you have a few to discuss?
<soulstompp> yeah we have an interested cardiologist and dentist
<derek> you == your company
<chillywilly> what's that practice management software?
<chillywilly> gnumed?
<chillywilly> that web based thingy
<derek> chillywilly: yes gnumed would be similar to practice management
<soulstompp> I don't know I haven't heard of that
<derek> soulstompp: a few more questions about your needs then i will explain the situation
<chillywilly> there's that and some other one
<derek> a. do the cardiologist/dentist already have something they use (software wise)
<derek> b. do they run gnu/linux
Action: derek likes to get an idea of who is in interested in gnue and how they plan to use it for marketing purposes
<soulstompp> no although they wouldn't have a problem with the server being gnu/linux
<derek> soulstompp: the current situation is something like this.....
<derek> GNUe is several things but its core things are :
<derek> a. a framework for rapid business application development
<derek> b. a prebuilt system using the framework that is highly extensible
<derek> i will say that (a) is split in two ways
<derek> 1. client/server (2 tier) (no application server)
<derek> 2. multi tier (application server)
<derek> the framework for client server is HIGHLY usable and in use in production in some facilities today
<soulstompp> we would be using option 1 as most of these will be small offices with few users
<derek> the multi tier application server is not fully functional, it works but is not production ready
<derek> the biggest issue we face is that we have only build 'custom' solutions
<chillywilly> :(
<derek> so we dont have an 'accounting package' you can download
Action: chillywilly strokes GEAS
<derek> we have a lovely framework with which you could readily build one
<soulstompp> I see
<jamest> the work on a gnue accounting package was written with our app server in mind
<derek> we do have a lot of supply chain and some accounting with specificaitions (read business requirements)
<derek> HOWEVER those specs were built with our application server in mind
<jamest> but not a 2 tier solution
<derek> so they are all object based
<jamest> however the 2-tier tools are pretty fast
<derek> the upside to this is we want gnue success stories 
<derek> and we want them bad
<jamest> at building solutions
<derek> which means im sure you would get more than one of us to help you on practice management software
<derek> IF you were willing to give them back to gnue for others to enjoy
<soulstompp> that sounds great
<derek> i know that isnt as wonderful as being able to download working software today
<derek> but i think you will find gnue builds applications VERY quickly
<soulstompp> this is a new business and all of us are in agreement that GNU is the way to go
<soulstompp> so I would happily contribute everything back to the community
<soulstompp> that is good
<jamest> but spending kwalitee time in #gnuenterprise is pretty wonderfull in it's own way
<derek> and i think that if they have NOTHING at all currently other than paper
<derek> you could give them USEFUL applications by weeks end
<soulstompp> because our only focus will not be just practice managment
<soulstompp> we are looking at other fields as well
<derek> when i say USEFUL, it might not have all bells and whistles but they will be capturing some stuff in a real database
<soulstompp> yeah
<derek> so when more features come on line they can easily start absorbing them
<soulstompp> now how is the reporting end of things
<derek> not the best
<derek> not the worst
<soulstompp> that is an area I would like to help
<derek> i say that because technically its all in a sql database
<derek> so if you bought a version of crystal reports
<soulstompp> I used to do support for Seagate Software Crystal Reports
<derek> or used report lab or etc you could easily get at the data
<derek> our report server i think kicks MAJOR ass
<derek> but its not production ready yet
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<derek> it generates all XML output for maximum flexibility
<soulstompp> :)
<derek> and it works liek a SERVER
<derek> i.e. i can run in server mode
<derek> so that you can 'cache' reports
<derek> like monthly financials and things
<soulstompp> that is very cool
<derek> it really does some useful things right now
<derek> but its far from production qwality
<derek> btw: one VERY useful thing it does is document merges :)
<derek> which is VERY important for practice management
<soulstompp> yeah
<derek> as they have to write lots of patient and insurance 'letters' or 'form' letters
<derek> we support that pretty cool now
<soulstompp> we have about 4 crystal report guys that can help so the reporting isn't dire right now
<derek> basically you can use ms office, star office, abiword etc to make document
<soulstompp> wow!
<derek> and run it against server to poplulate it
<soulstompp> that is a very nice feature
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<soulstompp> so is their a GUI core?
<soulstompp> meaning the screenshots that are their, such as the login screen
<soulstompp> or do I more or less start the gui portion of the app from scratch?
<jamest> forms is a GUI
<jamest> that ties directly to a datasource
<jamest> what database are you using?
<jamest> as your backend
<soulstompp> postgres
<jamest> you have it there now?
<jamest> running?
<chillywilly> mmmm, postgres
<soulstompp> I have a couple of postgres databases running
<jamest> if so 
<jamest> cool
<jamest> ok now
<jamest> did you install cvs gnue forms/common/designer
<jamest> or did you do a developers install
<soulstompp> I installed the designer
<jamest> a full system install or just the developer install
<jamest> iow did you
<jamest> cd cvs/gnue
<jamest> ./setup.py
<jamest> or did you
<jamest> cd /cvs/gnue/common
<jamest> ./setup.py install
<jamest> cd ../forms
<jamest> ./setup.py install
<jamest> cd ../designer
<jamest> ./setup.py install
<jamest> the first gives you a cvs based install as yourself
<soulstompp> I followed step by step the cvs install guide for RedHat 7.2
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Action: jamest needs to look at that guide :)
<jamest> just a sec :)
<soulstompp> k
<jamest> alrighty
<jamest> in /usr/local/gnue/etc/connections.conf
<jamest> put an entry for one of your databases
<jamest> a postgresql example should already be there
<jamest> if that file isn't there then a sample.connections.conf will be in that dir that you can use as a template
<jamest> btw - i'm walking you thru building a ui
<jamest> so you can see how easy it is :)
<soulstompp> I copied the sample one over and have two
<soulstompp> cool
<jamest> so you have your database in there now
<jamest> ?
<jamest> let me know when you do
<soulstompp> should I make the two databases that are listed in the file
<soulstompp> or make my own?
<jamest> make your own
<jamest> those are just samples
<jamest> i think
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<jamest> lemme check something
<stbain> o
<stbain> k
<jamest> most of our sample forms use a gnue database entry
<jamest> the name in brackets in the connections.conf file is the defined name of the connection
<jamest> [gnue] for instance
<jamest> the next 4 lines map that name to a specific database
Action: derek is back, if jamest starts to drown i will help ;) (ha like that will happen)
<jamest> for instance on my system
<soulstompp> okay database gnuetest is created
<jamest> i have a system wide [prod] defined for my users
<jamest> then in my personal conenctions.conf (devel install) i have a [prod] that really points to a devel database
<jamest> so I dont screw up my users
<jamest> ok
<jamest> now type
<jamest> gfdesigner
<derek> soulstompp: preferably point to a database taht has tables already
<jamest> yes
<jamest> please
<derek> so we can show you power of designer right away w/ minimal fuss
<soulstompp> hmmm
<derek> as we will run a wizard that will auto build forms from existing postgres tables
<soulstompp> I don't thik I have acess to any right off
<derek> that is ok
<derek> you can do a blank one
<soulstompp> k
<jamest> in the forms/samples/zipcode
<derek> and we can do a create script to build a sample table
<jamest> there is a pg sql file that will create  a zipcode table in a db
<derek> speaking of that 
<derek> jamest thanks for giving me a state table with flordia in it ;)
<jamest> you're welcome
<soulstompp> k
<soulstompp> done
<jamest> you created the table?
<soulstompp> yeah
<jamest> ok
<jamest> gfdesigner
<jamest> then when it's up
<jamest> File->connect to->the connection you defined that points to the database you created your table in 
<derek> ====
<derek> I recently created a resume in your database.  However, whenever I reached the line to input my home state, if I clicked on what should be "Florida," instead the word "Flordia" pops up.  I do not want it to seem like I cannot spell my own home state properly.  Is there a way for someone to correct this error so that I may update my online resume?  I appreciate your attention to this matter.
<derek>  
<derek> ====
<derek> was a funny 'email' to get :)
<derek> fwiw it made my laugh for the day, since it was a 30 second fix that changed things system wide
<jamest> soulstompp: you ok?
<soulstompp> yeah
<jamest> whoops
<jamest> smack me
<jamest> you don't have to do that :)
Action: jcater smacks ja
<soulstompp> no?
<jcater> mest
<jamest> file -> new -> from wizard
<jamest> (it prompts for db during form setup :)
<soulstompp> oh crap I don't have the pypgsql on this one
<jamest> any postgresql driver will work
<jamest> popy, postgresql, psycopg, pypgsql
<jamest> just change your provider in your connections.conf
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<derek> pick a provider any provider...
<derek> step right up pick your provider
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Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<chillywilly> wee
<derek> chillywilly_: you were having children bouncing off wall
<derek> i found solution
<chillywilly> yes? :)
<soulstompp> lemme grab the RPM I need
<derek> we could use and ADO driver for common
<derek> m$ says they require a 'first' born
<chillywilly> put glue on the walls?
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> we'll use yours then
<derek> you could trade that bouncing boy for an ADO api ;)(
<chillywilly> you have children to spare
Action: chillywilly only has one
<chillywilly> ;P
<derek> we need find someone with a kid so bad that m$ will give them back :)
<derek> soulstompp: how is that rmp'find' going?
<derek> btw you will need probably mxDateTime rpm
<derek> from egenix as well
<derek> it might be mxBase or something (which ever one has mxDateTime)
<chillywilly> ummm
Action: derek slaps guido & company for such poor date/time funcitons
<soulstompp> I am downloading that one now
<soulstompp> mx
<chillywilly> I know of such a kid
<chillywilly> I am 100% that M$ will give back my nephew
<chillywilly> er, 100% sure ;)
<jamest> heck, chillywilly how old are you?  think you could pass as a kid
<jamest> ?
Action: chillywilly is 24
<jamest> if so then it'd be like a trojan house
<jamest> er horse
<derek> i have new remedy for children that dont listen
<derek> i will be offering it on my web site soon
<chillywilly> but I would die inside if I worked for the beast
Action: chillywilly would be no more
<derek> http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/photos/people/7.html is a picture of it in action
<derek> jcater: i think my unicode issue went away
<chillywilly> manhow big is that  image?
<derek> twice i have gotten new cvs from designer and it just acts WILD
Action: chillywilly waits for da mastas image to load
<derek> so i delete my cvs dir and re co and all is well
<derek> chillywilly: yeah i didnt trim them down from camera, thast on todo list
<chillywilly> dude your image is loading VERY SLOWLY
Action: chillywilly trout-slaps derek
<derek> ok mommy sent me this
<derek> and i started choking on pizza
<derek> http://funny-funny-pictures.com/new-barbie/
<derek> i like paranoid barbie
<chillywilly> hehe, that pic is funny
<chillywilly> uh oh
<chillywilly> your mom is something else man
<chillywilly> is that like a dog cage that the kids are in?
<jamest> dude, it's his mom, man
<chillywilly> his mom has the coolest sense of humor
<jcater> rofl
Action: jamest didn't look at pics but had flashback to Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure
Action: chillywilly wonders if it is time for the bitchfilter
<derek> jcater: chillywilly has just never met a redneck mom
<chillywilly> maybe that's why my connection blows
Action: derek still remembers being like 10 and moms favorite joke at time was......
<derek> Q. 'you know why the speed limit stops at 68?'
<derek> A. 'cause at 69 you eat it'
<derek> hahahaha
<derek> i still think thats the dumbest joke
<chillywilly> heh
<derek> her other one at that time
<soulstompp> that rpm installed fine but when I make the connection it is saying the driver isn't found
<derek> Q. 'you know the word for 69 in chinese?'
<derek> A. 'twocanchew'
<chillywilly> man
<derek> equally as dumb but tradition at our house i suppose 
<chillywilly> maybe it isn;'t so great to have a mom like that ;)
Action: derek was abused as an adolescent ;)
<jcater> roflmao
<derek> you have more than one version of python i suppose soulstompp
<derek> i assume that driver installed under the 1.5.2 version
<derek> not the 2.x version
<soulstompp> yeah
<soulstompp> I think so because that is what redhat wants to default to
<derek> pygresql is easy to install source
<jamest> soulstompp: we jumped to 2.x
<derek> as its python setup.py install
<derek> i would get tar ball and do
<jamest> thinking distros wouldn't be far behind
<derek> python2.x setup.py install
<jamest> that bites us alot :(
<derek> of pygresql  or what ever
<derek> where .x is your version of python
<soulstompp> yeah that is the way that I did it
<chillywilly> hey debian is cool with that ;)
<soulstompp> oh I mean for the main part
<soulstompp> of installing gnue 
<soulstompp> just not for the driver
<soulstompp> I will go do that
<derek> repeat for driver and you will ok me thinks :)
<derek> jcater you go to gibson's already?
<soulstompp> if I leave the rpm on their so that my 1.5.2 has postgres avaiable
<soulstompp> will that cause problems with the source install?
<derek> not that i know of
<jcater> derek: not yet
<soulstompp> k
<jcater> derek: jamest has me tied to my chair
<derek> you like donut holes right?
<jcater> oh, yeah!
<derek> its one on moriah right?
<jamest> derek: i found a, um, interesting feature in the common dataobject system
<derek> yeah me too
<derek> grids dont work
<derek> i.e. when you do rows
<derek> it fills the rows
<jamest> i couldn't figure out where that feature was implemented
<derek> BUT only gets 3 at a time
<jamest> derek: what db driver?
<derek> um
<derek> pygresql i think
<jamest> set your datasource cache= number up higher
<jamest> and see what happens
<derek> ok
<derek> is 3 default?
<derek> as i dont think i have it set to anything currently
<jamest> um
<jamest> it should be 5
Action: derek is testing
<jamest> my states forms do the right thing
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<jamest> provider = pypgsql
<derek> it is 5
<derek> i.e. its looping on 5 records not 3 
Action: derek has bad memory
<jamest> what version of pypgsql?
<jamest> even set to 5
<jamest> it should do the right thin
<jamest> as that is where mine is set
<jamest> and i can see 10 records in rows just fine
<jamest> however
<jamest> i _think_ older pypgsql's did something odd
<jamest> popy IIRC wasn't effected 
<derek> ok that fixed it kind of
<jamest> so you can switch providers to test it
<derek> cache make the loop bigger but still loops
<derek> example
<derek> if i have cache set to 10
<derek> and i have a grid of 10
<jamest> soulstompp: how goes the battle?
<derek> if i navigate the grid to row 10
<derek> and move to row 11
<derek> i see what was in row 1
<derek> i.e. when it caches 10 records it only has those 10 records
<derek> i would EXPECT behavior to cache only 10 at a time
<derek> but if go to 11
<jamest> derek: it does that
<derek> number 1 should fall out of cache
<derek> and 11 brought in
<jamest> perfectly
<jamest> your install is what is screwed up 
<derek> my install?
<jamest> suprize, suprise
<jamest> :)
<jamest> yes
<derek> what is wrong with it?
<derek> i grabbed new cvs last night
<jamest> are you sure you're running a newer pypgsql version?
<derek> and did setup.py install from the root cvs dir
<soulstompp> the driver type for pygresql would be pypgsql right?
<derek> no old pygres version im sure
<derek> ;)
<jamest> soulstompp: yes
<derek> doesnt mean my install is messed up
<derek> means that i have older driver :)
<jamest> yeah, but I mentioned that above
<jamest> issue with older pypgsql
<jamest> which is your install :)
Action: derek is deathly afraid to fix pygresql
<jamest> forms is perfect except for feature here and there :)
<derek> as last time i tried popy and such on this
<derek> machine i was in hell
<jamest> but I keep them to myself so I dont have to adjust them till someone else finds them :)
<derek> read EVERY TIME i try to be productive with forms
<derek> i run into a problem
<derek> and when i go to fix it, it consumes all the time i had for productivity
<derek> so i wont fall in that trap tonight :)
<derek> i.e. i will live with bad caching in order to be productive :)
<derek> as i know i touch that driver i will be fighting it all night
<derek> one of the pains of running redhat 6.2 in a redhat 7.1 world :)
<jamest> :)
<jcater> derek: you're behind the times
<derek> soulstompp: that was not meant to scare you away, gnue is very usable, i just am the user that beats the living hell out of it
<jcater> ot's a redhat 7.2 world now
<derek> jcater: i wont tell you of my alpha machine still running rh5.2 then :)
<derek> which was before redhat put kde on disk and gnome was unusable so it is running fvwm
<jamest> derek is a user from hell
<jamest> he can make a bucket of water crash
<soulstompp> I guess so
<derek> hey its hard work getting things configured in such evil ways
<soulstompp> I still have to support 5.x for a couple hundred users on a web server
<soulstompp> I am not scared of anything
<jamest> i was afraid to meet him in San Fran 
<jan> derek: won't you try debian? You can use windowmanager instead of fvwm...;)
<jamest> figured his mere presence there would trigger the big earthquake
<derek> jan i love debian
<chillywilly> jamest: :)
<derek> only reason rh6.2 exists is im too nervous to kill my laptop
<derek> and have down time
<jcater> derek: send it this way
Action: chillywilly is a debian only kinda guy
<jcater> either jamest or I would love to kill it
<jcater> and give it down time
<chillywilly> haw haw
<jamest> you betcha
<derek> the alpha box is only redhat still cause i cant remember how to dick with the bios (alpha bios' are operating systems) to get debian on it
<derek> i will say using a non intel box is an experience
<derek> and honestly is like going from windows to linux
<jamest> give it to your daughter for 10 minutes and she'll get it running, you're too old to figure it out
<derek> makes you wonder how the hell you lived w/o it
<derek> i.e. thier friggin bios is more advanced that win2000
<jan> if debian alpha  has as much docu as debian powerpc it will be some days of fun.
<soulstompp> I have installed that driver with python 2
<chillywilly> werd
<soulstompp> and it had no problems
<jamest> great!
<soulstompp> but I get the error that their is no database driver for pypgsql
<jamest> you ready for designer?
<jamest> did you reinstall mxdatetime under python2
<soulstompp> I reran the installer and it said that nothing was done because everything was installed fine
<soulstompp> nope that would be the problem
<jamest> one thing we do
<jamest> is try errors on db driver import
<jamest> trap
<jamest> then report it as not installed
<jamest> which is sorta misleading
<soulstompp> okay
<soulstompp> lemme go find that tar ball
<jamest> as the driver can be installed but if it's dependecies are missing then blam
<derek> in gnue/common/scripts$
<derek> there is a file
<derek> gnue-diag.sh
<derek> can you make it executable and run it?
<derek> jamest: we used to do that now we have a diagnostic program :)
<derek> jamest im using pypgsql i guess not pygresql
<derek> soulstompp: for each instance of python you should get a diagnostic
<derek> similar to
<derek> --------------------------------------------------------------------
<derek> Python results for '/usr/local/bin/python2.2'
<derek> Version:    2.2a4 (#1, Oct  6 2001, 09:01:18) 
<derek>             [GCC egcs-2.91.66 19990314/Linux (egcs-1.1.2 release)]
<derek> Platform:   linux2
<derek> sys.path:   /usr/local/lib/python2.2
<derek>             /usr/local/lib/python2.2/plat-linux2
<derek>             /usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-tk
<derek>             /usr/local/lib/python2.2/lib-dynload
<derek>             /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages
<derek> PyXML:       Installed
<derek> mxDateTime:  2.0.2
<derek> Checking /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages:
<derek>   /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/wxPython:  found
<derek>   /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pygresql:  *NOT found*
<derek>   /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/psycopg:  *NOT found*
<derek>   /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/pyPgSQL:  found
<derek>   /usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/MySQLdb:  *NOT found*
<derek> --------------------------------------------------------------------
<jcater> dude! you're still using the alpha version of 2.2
<derek> can you paste what yo uhave for you python versions here?
<derek> or in #gnue-flood
<derek> jcater: ssshhhh
Action: derek is too lazy to compile new version
<derek> as i keep telling myself no new crap on this machine
<derek> as it really needs debian :)
<jcater> um
<jcater> then don't bitch about unicode issues
<jcater> :)
<derek> rofl
<soulstompp> brb guys gotta meeting
<soulstompp> on a sunday night AHHH!
<jamest> pypgsql is what you'd mentioned before
<derek> ah ok
<jamest> every postgresql dirver has proven a bit odd wrt the spec
<derek> lk;adsfj;fsdaj;klsfdajklfasjf
<derek> i hate this really i do
<derek> now i cant get designer wizards to work
<derek> i swear there is somethign against me
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/designer/src/TemplateBase.py", line 141, in GetTemporaryConnection
<derek> DB000:     self._connections.requestConnection( \
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/GConnections.py", line 204, in requestConnection
<derek> DB000:     dataObject.connect(loginData)
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/dbdrivers/postgresql/DBdriver.py", line 67, in connect
<derek> DB000:     host=connectData['host'],
<derek> DB000: KeyError: host
<derek> this ringing any bells?
<jamest> um
<derek> and what the fsck is it using postgresql driver for
<jamest> is your connections.conf good?
<derek> ok got wizard to work
<derek> yeah
<derek> for local form
<derek> now will try for one i need to be productive
<derek> piss it dont work
<derek> hmmm
<derek> odd
<derek> B005: [GConnections:190] Getting new data connection to hcs
<derek> DB001: [DBdriver:63] Postgresql database driver initializing
<derek> DB001: [DBdriver:72] Connect String: localhost::hcs_prod:hcs_www:mypassword::
<derek> DB001: [DBdriver:77] Exception FATAL 1:  Database "hcs_prod" does not exist in the system catalog.
<derek> DB001: [DBdriver:77]  
<derek> it appears to be IGNORING port
<derek> i dont see that in the connection string
Action: jamest will look
<derek> but it did work last night
<derek> [hcs]
<derek> comment = HCS Production
<derek> provider = pypgsql
<derek> host = localhost
<derek> port = 9999
<derek> dbname = hcs_prod
<derek> is the connections.conf entry for it
<jamest> port is being ignored
<jamest> well
<jamest> actually
<jamest> it's not even in our docs
<derek> damnit jim it worked yesterday :)
<derek> and since when did 'not in our docs' mean it didnt exist :)
<derek> where did the weasel jcater run off too :)
<derek> he was one that showed me this undocumented feature
<derek> course i changed my connections.conf and deleted the one that worked :(
Action: derek goes to grep ash logs
<jcater> geeze
Action: jcater misread that
Action: jcater read that as something re crap on ash's logs
Action: jcater thought ash was upset
<jcater> undocumented feature?
<jcater> I thought port= was documented
<derek> jcater:  you have any ideas on this issue?
<derek> it worked the other day when we played
<derek> i can psql -h localhost -p 9999 -U hcs_www hcs_prod just fine
<jan> happy carnival night (todays german carnival)!! bye
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<jcater> derek: use another driver?
<jamest> it's not in Connections.txt
<derek> sigh but this driver worked last ngiht
<jamest> derek: when was your last cvs update?
<jcater> sigh
<derek> um like 10 minutes ago
<derek> maybe an hour ago
<jamest> before last night?
<jamest> when it worked
<jamest> have you been up to date for a while?
<derek> yeah
<derek> i updated cvs before i got it to work like yesterday or day before
<jamest>  self._connectString = 'host=%s dbname=%s user=%s password=%s'
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> we need to modify connections.txt to say "look in README.databases" to see all supported parameters
<jcater> as each database driver supports different parameters
<jcater> most either support the (host, port) pair or (service) string
<jamest> hmmm
<jamest> none of the pgsql drivers support it though
<jamest> and I don't think I've worked on them in ages
<jcater> hmmm
<jcater> I swear this was working yesterday
<jcater> how bizarre
<jcater> but you're right... I see nothing in there
<derek> wow now i can make code disappear too ;)
<derek> damn i am good
<jamest> i can't find ref to it in cvs either
<jamest> in the logs
<derek> whats really funny is grepping irc logs
<derek> and i cant find the conversation jcater and i had about it even
<derek> but i know we had taht conversation
<derek> and that we got it to work
<jcater> we did?
<jcater> what conversation?
<jcater>   /msg jamest I think it's working
Action: derek thinks maybe jcater and i were drinking too hard that night or something
<jcater> was that my Merlot and Taco night?
<jcater> as that was some bad sh*t
<jamest> derek
<jamest> you might be able to do
<jamest> host=foo.bar.com:port
<derek> jcater: yeah
<derek> jamest: but port worked before :)
<jamest> dude
<jamest> i've went back over a month
<jamest> it's not in cvs
<derek> jcater: i think he is playing games with us
Action: derek has a cvs snapshot
<derek> from that day
Action: derek goes to look
<soulstompp> hey I am going to have to finish this up tommorow
<jamest> soulstompp: ok
<soulstompp> thank you jamest and derek for all of your help
<jamest> no problem
<jamest> hope to see you tomorrow
<soulstompp> I will get the connection set up tonight
<soulstompp> and be ready for the rest tommorow
<soulstompp> I have a GPL fistfight I gotta finish with the founders :)
<chillywilly> hehe
<soulstompp> I am glad to see that this project has a community that is so helpful
<soulstompp> it is going a long way in my argument
<derek> jamest: where is PGData....
<soulstompp> well that and that the product is so cool
<soulstompp> thanks
<derek>  PGSQL_DataObject.__init__(self, PgSQL, PG_ResultSet)
<derek>     self._connectString = '%s::%s:%s:%s::'
soulstompp (soul@adsl-64-173-15-171.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<derek> .....
<derek> jamest: localhost:9999 works
<derek> so the question of the night what happened to 
<derek> port = support :)
<derek> damn still have funky unicode save
Action: derek wets himself
<derek> inline label editing
<derek> can it be true
<jcater> dude
<jcater> that's like 2-3 weeks old
<jamest> derek: self._connectString = '%s::%s:%s:%s::' is for
<jamest> host dbname user password
<jamest> there is no port support there
<jamest> is in place editing older that drag and drop layout and selection by box?
<jamest> if so derek may be in for a real treat
<jcater> I think so
<jamest> is there any need to add port=support to postgresql drivers
<jcater> yes
<jcater> definitely
<jamest> or is the current host:port good enought
<derek> jamest: i like idea of port =
Action: derek trying useful remote form now
<derek> rock
<derek> guys this is killer info
<derek> over my wireless broadband
<derek> did query with local form accessing ssh tunneled postgres db
<derek> 8 fields (5456 records)
<derek> took about 40 seconds
<derek> once they are here
<derek> i navigate with NO lag
<jamest> derek: you probably don't have all the records
<derek> oh im creaming myself here
<jamest> it precaches them
<jamest> so only a cluster at a time
<derek> a query on that set (which wouldd be NORMAL usage)
<derek> is transparent speed wise
<jamest> that was the idea
<derek> argh not having damn updated driver hurts though
<derek> um ok tell me about drag and drop datasource fields
<derek> i.e how do you do it
<derek> as i ahve a fomr now that i want to make master detail
<derek> would be great to drag and drop the new fields onto the form
<jamest> um
<jamest> master/detail still requires you to setup the second datasrouce manually IIRC
<derek> mmm schema editor is nice
<jamest> you should be able to drag and drop from there IIRC
<jamest> just grab a field and drop it
<jamest> however it was segfaulting for me other day
<derek> nope
<derek> no segfault
<derek> but no workie either
<derek> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/forms/LayoutEditor/DisplayDropTarget.py", line 185, in OnData
<derek> DB000:     Incubator.createObject(
<derek> DB000: NameError: global name 'Incubator' is not defined
<derek> is error message
<derek> still just being able to see fields name is a plus :)
<jamest> lemme look
<jamest> jcater is deep into datasources
<derek> i think it broke something else as i cant manually add a datasrouce eitehr
<derek> restarting designer
<derek> ok i cant add new datasource :(
<derek> any ideas
<derek> i tried in object navigator right mouse clicking and choosing new->datasource
<derek> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/forms/LayoutEditor/LayoutEditor.py", line 468, in OnRightUp
<derek> DB000:     form = self._currentObject.getObjectType() == 'GFForm' and self._currentObject or \
<derek> DB000: AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getObjectType'
<jamest> um
<derek> i get same thing if i right mouse click on the form
<derek> BUT
<derek> if i highlight and entry and do right mouse click
<derek> then new datasource it works :)
<derek> i get a lot of this too
<derek> DB000: AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getObjectType'
<derek> DB000: [DBdriver:350] Database driver needs updated to not initialize DBSIG_DataObject_Object
[22:21] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<jamest> what db driver?
<derek> i forget on master / detail
<derek> master = the datasource of the master
<derek> master link = the field
<derek> detail link = the field or datasource.field
<derek> ?
<derek> pypgsql
<jamest> everything is at datasource level
<jamest> derek: do me a favor
<jamest> cd cvs/gnue/common/src/dbdriver/pypgsql
<jamest> grep  DBSIG_DataObject_Object *.py
<derek> dag nabit friggin entrys not addable either
<derek> btw: your answer didnt help
<jamest> is this fresh cvs????? 
<derek> at datasrouce level doesnt tell me anything
<derek> do i do
<derek> datasource.field
<derek> or just
<derek> field
<jamest> field
<derek> ok :)
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/common/src/dbdrivers/pypgsql$ grep DBSIG_DataObject_Object *.py
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/common/src/dbdrivers/pypgsql$ 
<derek> this is cvs from less than 2 hours ago
<jamest> this is nuts
<derek> to my knowledge
<jamest> that is a placeholder warning 
<jamest> simply saying that the dbdrivers are calling something they dont need to anymore
<jamest> the postgresql drivers _don't_ call that anymore
<jamest> as they are my test case
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/bin$ ls -l gfdes
<derek> lrwxrwxrwx    1 dneighbo dneighbo       45 Feb 10 20:21 gfdes -> /home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/designer/client/gfdes
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/bin$ 
<derek> which is where i would expect
<derek> -rw-rw-r--    1 dneighbo dneighbo     3750 Jan 29 10:39 DBdriver.py
<derek> is that files date
<derek> the pypgsql one
<jamest>  3750 Jan 29 11:47 DBdriver.py
<jamest> so yes
<jamest> if you put time diff in there
<jamest> can you try something
<jamest> cd cvs/gnue
<jamest> mv .cvsdevelbase off
<jamest> then rerun the developer setup.py
Action: jcater is away: shopping
<jamest> i'm not feeling at all well
<jamest> i checked in a fix for the Incubator error
<jamest> but i need to go to bed i think
<jamest> l8r
jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201091.flinthills.com) left irc: "[x]chat"
<derek> ok i have to fight production stuff so will  have to fight it later
jcater (jason@24.92.70.39) left irc: "muat rewst"
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<derek> hi wolfgang
<wolfgang> hello
<wolfgang> just looking throught the site and wanted to see if there was any interesting discussions about the project...
<derek> yeah you missed the fun stuff
<derek> i think most the l'americans ran off to bed
<wolfgang> :)
<jbailey> This canadian's still awake!
<jbailey> (Barely...)
<wolfgang> when is there a decent amount of activity usually? i'm in u.s. pacific time..
<derek> wolfgang: generally between like 8am - 10pm my time (GMT -7:00)
<derek> there is some type of activity
<derek> at least people here and awake
<wolfgang> okay, thanks for the info, i will check back. ttyl
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--- Mon Feb 11 2002