i just got a 101MB core file from openoffice. due to me closing all open documents dres_ (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) chillywilly (danielb@d77.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: reinhard (~rm@N809P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Client Quit ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting" ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr (nick@e-172-IP28.empnet.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) nickr (~nick@e-172-IP28.empnet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-176.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: "Client Exiting" alexey (alex@strel.techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. cls oops reinhard (rm@N809P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate" ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-3-ip126.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest_ (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@d185.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. anyone home? Good Morning chillywilly! hi ah well I 'll be back later cya later... Action: chillywilly goes to work chillywilly (danielb@d185.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Client Quit alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" dsmith (dsmith@cherry7.comerica.com) left irc: "later.." dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. morning hello running off now ta ta Nick change: derek -> dnWork alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting" dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection dneighbo (~dneighbo@tech-200078.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest jamest_ did you and jcater get to talk menus? and if so was it logged? um jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. not really we both got busy morning jcater morning i switched navigator to spawn forms instead of system call them that way it doesn't block while a form is running but I have not commited it i wantted to make sure you didn't have a reason for using system also was wondering if you'd looked into having it add to windows start menu oooo and the -u web doesn't seem to work, was it completed Action: jamest_ is playing with navigator in case you can't tell > Has anyone made a techonlogy compare paper between > SapDB and other Databases ? especially we are interested > here in a compare against Oracle. A comparison SAP DB <--> Oracle (SQL) was prepared, will now be put into a nice english html-form and be available in March. Elke SAP Labs Berlin for you jcater ;) jamest_ -u web used to work i.e. well it 'kind' of worked well didnt segfault out but wasnt fully functional iirc it only pulls up first menu list ok thats what it was doing for me too :) then gives a can't find url on any click also it's borked on windows :) didnt try on windows, but i will take your word :)\ but so is forms in general really, really borked try running it sometime jamest_: re the navigator spawning a new instance: that was my plan all along, I just didn't have time to do it (the spawn was a quick hack) ok then i'll commit it in a bit btw, re the -u web interface wxPython isn't playing nice I'm trying to trap the click, but apparently there's a bug in wx I sent an email to wxPython and the response was "you are doing it wrong, I'm sure... look at the examples" it's one friggin line!!!! how can I get one line wrong that was copied from the examples sigh Action: jcater digresses :) Action: dneighbo thinks masta gonna have to go over there and thump them wx boys no one but no one tells our AI that he is 'computing' incorrectly reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.2) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater / jamest_ (kde users): have you all used kivio? (or whatever visio klone kde kreated? Action: dneighbo saw some screen shots and it looked decent, but wondered the functionality I have it installed, but have not actually used it dia is nice but you cant to PROFESSIONAL stuff with it read you cant make things 'purdy' for management dneighbo: you looked at the poll results? Action: jcater is surprised how many ppl use MySQL for business data and how many "others" there are jcater: i really suspect most people consider dynamic db driven web applications as 'business apps' thus the mysql numbers I wondered the same thing btw: most linux folks IN MY HUMBLE OPINION dont have lots of business experience and so mysql is to me like access a good 'starter' db poor souls and lots of folks doing first business consulting etc pick it up cause its easy and the BIG feature sell is its xplatform natively not through cygwin the other number im kind of suprised as i think we have all the BIG ones listed wow looking at numbers im impressed to see 11 oracle Action: jcater wonders how many don't know what the backend db is (so are thinking SQL Ledger and not Postgres) not suprised that oracle has market share mind you (just using SQL Ledger as an example) suprised that Oracle (highly expensive) users are looking at free software ERP i.e. like you :) it shouldn't be that surprising, really er what i mean is i think we see an IT trent er trend shops are sick of paying high dollar levies to be treated like crap so the higher the price tag and more shit you are treated more likely you are to come in search of FS well, it's no secret that IT budgets have been slashed, yet the technological needs have not shrunken at all i dont know how oracle treats its customers but i know it is expensive :) "but expensive is relative" "it's about value" rofl "im game, if you throw in some lube to make it a little easier to 'take'" ya right btw : did we ever make a branch so we can patch pg issues on windows/odbc/db2 and make a 0.1.3 or whatever release? it trips me out the consultants who we bring in who think the products they supply should be supplied at a cost relative to the about of money we save over the long run instead of how much the product is actually worth yeah dont think it would be justice if every product was priced this way toilet paper for example i mean w/o it, lets face it you would be buying a lot more underwear (assuming you are into personal hygeine) that's typically the type of argument we get say underwear is 2.00 a pair and now you have to buy like 40 pair a year instead of 2 pair thats a saving of what 78 dollars if you go throw a roll of tp a week thats 52 rolls so, we will charge you regular price for the toilet paper, but the holder is gonna cost $140 so, that's a ROI of 18 months so that so you should be paying like 2 bucks a roll instead of the .33 cents a roll you pay now (assuming you can get 4 rolls for 1.00 on sale) plus, let's not forget that our toulet paper holder is not a perfect product... expect to replace it every three years however, if you sign by March 1 we will include replacement in your Support Contract yes toilet paper is bad example as its really not REUSABLE the prime example woudl be a tooth brush hehe instead of 1.00 for a brush that lasts a year you pay 200 for a toothbrush we should get PSU to write up a "toothbrush consultant" example as brushing your teeth saves on average 2 cavities a year to illustrate our point :) and cavities cost 800 to fill so 200 for a brush that saves you 1600 is an INCREDIBLE deal then the 500 for the toothpaste contract thats where the REAL value is i mean for 700 you will have your money back in less than 6 mos how incredible is that? what is funny is anyone reading this would probably die laughing but this is common thing in IT industry but it's SOOOO true what I love is their toothbrushes require their own special "holder" custom installed, of course hmm that is a VAR thing the vendor just makes sure his toothpaste is incompatiable with other vendors brushes so you are locked into that toothpaste contract or forced to buy a new brush you can't reuse your existing holders ("I know the slots are the same size; but ours it calibrated especially for our toothbrushes. Also, who's to say your holder can withstand the extra load") yeah crest's holders just dont 'scale' well ooooo i mean a family of 5 or 6 and your screwed let's not forget "user training" and floss thats high performance dental care you pay top dollar for floss yes and one member of the family will need to be flown to our "flossing seminar" rofl this wouldnt be so funny BUT it's in Miami this year if it werent a comparable analogy to it industry so what member wouldn't mind going to Miami jcater: this month i went to dentist and for only 4,500 i can get crest 'reach' toothbrush certified with that cert i am like 80% less likely to have ginvitis which is a huge value peridontial disease is SO costly i can hardly wait of course the joke here is that the toothbrush vendor regularly is able to sell brush, paste and floss to folks with dentures :) :) of course, the vendor has a 20% stake in the Denture company "to spread his risk" Action: dneighbo thinks that perhaps i should make a small list of things that are 'cheap' but highly useful then see if they have some 'money saving' value like the toothbrush "If VARs sold Toothbrushes..." then write up a little mini "what if the rest of the world operated like a software company..." we ahvent even relaly touched on the 'monoply' implications here :) just on the no value ones :) yip btw: i do quote and word of the day the quote today.... (so fitting) "As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it." -- Dick Cavett read people wouldnt buy a 200 dollar tooth brush and a 500 toothpaste contract they will buy millions of dollars in software license fees though i think slowly people are stopping the trend whether it be because of reduced budgets or waking up and smelling the coffee reinhard (rm@62.47.45.2) left irc: "The more often you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets" ToyMan_ (~stuq@c5300-3-ip126.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: jcater is away: lunch hi ToyMan_ i think the wife is mandating computer fixage at home so i might get budget approval to get new case to get machien working again hey dneighbo jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317575.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. sounds good, get that computer working ;) dneighbo: hi zwiskle (~zwiskle@194-208-138-086.TELE.NET) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@c5300-3-ip126.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise. vegas (Linux@as10-183.qualitynet.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: jcater is back (gone 01:05:08) wb jcarter! jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317575.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" 5 dermits for 5 minute over lunch jcater er demerits sigh don't go there Action: jcater is pissed w/work today well then you should have taken 10 minutes extra vegas (Linux@as10-183.qualitynet.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) dneighbo: looks like geeks4christ.net is down eh? hey i should register geeks4chris.net. my mom's name is Chris ;> "no for the last time we're not geeks4christ.net! that's Derek Neighbors over there!!!" um i think i dont htink i had geeks4christ.net try .org or .com ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting" chillywilly (~danielb@d143.as0.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. moi_je (~eva@195.144.36.220) joined #gnuenterprise. hi everybody I try to start gfdesigner. It brings only Missing GNUe config fileDB000:. What can i do? go to where the sample.gnue.conf file is and do take the sample gnue.conf file ans chage it to your liking cp sample.gnue.conf gnue.conf chillywilly there should be no chagnes to gnue.conf it should pretty much work out of box my bad i.e. just copy the sample connections.conf hey, anyone know how to read from the parallel port in dos? chillywilly : you can customize gnue.conf but not recommended unless you know what you are doing or have a need you want addressed specifically :) yeah install linux fewl this is a work machine I want to crack the software so we don't have to use the stupid dongle that you have to put on the parallel port I think they have the db username and password in the dongle they use watcom sql engine dneighbo: I seem to have already both files connections.conf and gnue.conf are there python drivers for that/. Vooch (~d@adsl-63-164-29.bna.bellsouth.net) joined #gnuenterprise. OK. I found the problem. The file .conf was not at the right place. So finally I could start gfdesigner thank you for helping me Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-176.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Youhou. I could start my first form ;-) :) moi_je: sorry for not responding you running ok now? jamest_:i was just able to start the first sample with gfclient. Nothing special. Now i am fighting to start a complex example ok to use gfclient with postgresql how can i specify the driver? in your connections.conf you define your database types with names inside the [] [foo] for instance then in the gfd file you have datasource lines part of which read database="foo" or you can embed tags inside the gfd file itself i don't recall the tag format exactly but it's in the forms tech_ref file in the doc directory jamest_: i found the connections.conf file and there is as provider pypgsql. Maybe the problem is there. Do you know what should be written as provider? ok i check the tech_ref file MartinG (~martin@wrasse.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. MartinG (~martin@wrasse.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). l8r jamest_ (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. cnrd-away (conrad@dial-ctb023.webone.com.au) got netsplit. cnrd-away (~conrad@dial-ctb023.webone.com.au) got lost in the net-split. cnrd-away (~conrad@dial-ctb023.webone.com.au) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (dneighbo@tech-200078.flinthills.com) left irc: "My damn controlling terminal disappeared!" Vooch (~d@adsl-63-164-29.bna.bellsouth.net) left #gnuenterprise. do we have drivers for sql anywhere? ? Action: chillywilly just figured out watcom sql is now sql anywhere after sybase bought them http://www.dbmsmag.com/9606d08.html we have sybase drivers zwiskle (~zwiskle@194-208-138-086.TELE.NET) left #gnuenterprise. hrrrm not sure the differences in their difference sql servers well this app that I have on our work laptop uses watcom sql v. 4.0 there's a dll that is the odmc driver I tried to use the little command line utility to connect but I don't know what username and password it accepts ;) from dos I was playing with it from dos s/odmc/odbc cool http://www.nativedb.com/product.htm Supported Sybase editions Watcom SQL 3.2 Watcom SQL 4 SQL Anywhere 5 Adaptive Server Anywhere 6 Adaptive Server Anywhere 7 this may work does the sybase driver support SQL Anywhere? hrrrm isn't this their main db server? um Sybase ASE (Adaptive Server Enterprise) Action: jcater thinks that's just a name change, though ok as they still call the "design" software "SQL Anywhere Studio" well watcom turned into sql anywhere http://www.sybase.com/products/databaseservers uhuh but I dunno how I can get the username and password that the inspection software uses to connect to the db dunno I cna start up the engine using one of the other command line tools but when I use the little sql client it braks at me er, barks btw, I was looking at some code in common and was wondering what GObj is exactly? just a generic GNUe object? just a generic object ok that can be expressed as XML uhuh would it be cool if geas could store GObjs? um not sure hmm well, cool, yeah but not sure of usefulness well from what I can tell all that's really in there is triggers and the xml output/input ability what derives from GObj? there's a few other convenience functions in there but that's basically what it's for um GFForm GFBlock GFEntry GFBox ... ok would it be useful if all business objects on the app serverwere GObjs? hmm you are giving me a headache :) I haven't given that much thought or if you could transparently get persistence of GObjs ;P well, the only persistance I see us needing is storing the objects in their corresponding XML file why does GObj remind me so much of GObject in the new glib? so the point of GObj is already to provide transparent persistence via xml I suppose :) ok, you see that 4suite server? they store everything as xml docs provide a bunch of protocols and do distributed transactions it looked cool ok not that I am saying that we should borrow it, just stating it was interesting ;) http://4suite.org it's a python thing so, does having GObjs witht he ability to output xml help you generate forms? Is that how you use it? basically, yeah I've seen 4suite, but am very hesitant when it comes to basing our products off of someone else's yes I agree just stating that it might contain some nice ideas design ideas anyway I wouldn't really want to use someone else's app server plus it wouldn't be any fun ;) maybe I should concentrate on an ODMG python binding to store any type of python object I dunno anyway, GObj just kinda caught my eye think about it, lemme know if anything smacks you upside the head ;) Action: jcater nervously looks for approaching trout hehe no trout here dude Action: stbain slaps jcater around a bit with a shrubbery!! CTCP SOUND: shrub.wav from stbain (stbain!GunAndGiz@ip68-10-44-170.rn.hr.cox.net) to #gnuenterprise there... no trout ;) Action: chillywilly trout slaps stbain I meant no trout for jcater right now anyone else is fair game why do ppl do ctcp sound? that's a mirc thing nbig time....even worse than my trout parody stbain: you mirc luser you! ;P Well, back to the ranch dsmith: happy galluping l8r dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) left irc: "later.." hehe actually, now the mIRC has multi-server support, it's pretty nice I had KvIRC accepting CTCP sound requests pretty good until my HDD went kaboom chillywilly (danielb@d143.as0.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" moi_je (~eva@195.144.36.220) left #gnuenterprise. neilt (~neilt@dhcp64-134-54-181.chan.dca.wayport.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. jcater (~jason@24.92.70.39) joined #gnuenterprise. he's back ta-da! in black! whoops, forgot my pants just a sec...... he's back! um navigator how official is it? Action: jamest wants to make win setup.exe of it um what do you mean? how official? i mean is it still just a toy in people eyes jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317575.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. well, in derek's, I think so we've never released it IIRC but I think it's quite useful but jamest like it's very usefull Action: jcater wonders if he shouldn't add a "tree-style" interface first hmmm as far as I'm concerned, it's pretty damn official i don't have time tonight just maybe lacking a few desired interface methods but you might be able to rip the event handler (unused) in forms UIwxpython but, hell, so is forms :) to possibly grab those events you're missing in UIwxweb ah hell i'll try it deadlines shmedlines I can work on nav if ya'd like not a problem doesn't matter i wanna get windows support polished up tonight in there and maybe figure out wtf is going on with forms in win32 ok the UI is corrupt and it won't save I don't think that'll interfere too much eeew it's derek's fault, you know yeah, i know we need to get chilly a 50lb trout and have me keep derek away from our code when he gets to close he gets his deridic radiation all over it and makes it have bugs s/me/him rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-053-033.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise. neilt (neilt@dhcp64-134-54-181.chan.dca.wayport.net) left irc: jan (jan@dial-194-8-196-20.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. Hi! hello hey jan saw you've been working on block support some :) hi jamest. yep. but the biggest problem, i've spared up ;) for later: master-detail relationship man i wish you could interface to our python stuff now DB writing is working. as you'd almost be done by now :) i haven't seen a php/python bridge though :( (but just for postgres. I like OIDs) We could do it by SOAP. There are a lot of good implementations out there. that might be less time for you maybe? Action: jamest doesn't know what's involved I'm not shure how to write the python part, but if there would be a gnue-common webservice, possibly with a similar interface like GEAS.... sigh Action: jan is dreaming... (he has no idea about the gnue-common gnue-forms interface. there was work done on gnue-rpc but it's halted as our AI has more pressing issues :) AI? jcater he's an AI which depending on the moment means either artificial intelligence or Alldoughnut Ingester he's the worlds only 100% functoinal krispy kreme powered processing unit lofl lofl rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-053-033.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) jan: did you get that paperwork taken care of? I've send the mail, but haven't got any answer yet. (neither email, nor paper) jcater: whats about the status of the rpc commdriver? And how can I test it? well it's currently broken, so won't be of much use the real issue is that gcommon is a library, not necessarily a service so I'm not sure how that would work it's as easy to do XML-RPC in Python as in PHP, though I do know that (both are fairly easy to do) I like easy stuff. :) real issue is the persistence factor I haven't seen much of the gnue-common code, but for me the most important part is the db abstraction layer. yeah it's pretty cool hmm now that would be worth creating a "service" for Action: jcater is thinking... run! Action: jamest dives for cover help! my donughts are away!!! persistence is no very big problem. the php client is saving all cached data at the end of a call and restores it at the begin of a call. not nice. not fast, but working. jan while you're here yep! something that i was thinking about adding to forms was the ability to say that forms pages are steps so that I could rapidly design a web form that is one or more steps then on the last page a commit is done as personally I _hate_ making html forms Ok, thats a possibility. Whats about a "WIZARD" attribut in the tag? hmmmmm i really haven't giving this a lot of thought just a wishlist item that didn't seem remotely close to be available but at the rate youre going..... :) i'm not sure how the normal client would deal with this type of form or if it's even a good fit in the gfd others may want to comment on it first as I think it's been my dirty little secrete desire no problem. I also don't like to change the DTD. But it would be great ;) secret even um i hate to say this but I don't think the DTD is stable yet we're only at 0.1.1 release Just thinking of the database demo page. ... its so slow that it hurts. Even on my local computer. where is the overhead? Browsing in a list like that is not good. btw - www.gnuenterprise.org is not that much machine it's a celeron 350 w/ 96MBof ramm dude, you need our db driver system it pulls things in small chunks assuming that it's not good cause it loads it all Every time php parses the xml file and load session data. Not improved for speed at the moment. ouch that would be a beastie we've even talked about storing pre-parsed object trees to reduce gfclients startup time But if i switch on the APC cache (i.e. PHP don't have to parse 2000 lines of code) its getting relatively fast. If the basic features are in, i will try to store a little bit more of info into the session cache to let php do the parsing just once a session. ? APC caches the preparsed PHP code. PHP don't have to parse the php file every time it is called. Good stuff. But nothing if you change the code every 5 minutes. :) jamest: thinking about wizard mode: every page needs back and forth buttons and the last one needs the commit button. After commiting it will jump to the first page again. What are the python macros for jumping to the next/prev page? the UI system sends a IIRC requestNEXTBLOCK or requestPREVBLOCK the system then checks to see location of next block in relation to the page jamest: is this "wizard" you are thinking about specifically for a HTML form? i see it usefull in 2 places html forms are #1 #2 is where I may want the user to fill out trouble ticket of some sort running a local copy of forms say you want your reps to always ask the same things in a specific order or fill out a trouble ticket starting at step 1 and ending at step 4 well if we had multipage blocks and you don't want them dealing w/ all the "confusing" parts of a forms app this would be easy to do using existing "pages" concepts just a fill in this, fill in this, fill in this, finish or cancel yes A "wizard" form is great for HTML, but if it didn't work with the standart client. This wouldn't be good. Whats about using the normal pages and some triggers to implement it? i just wanted the pages to become treated as steps jan right now forms are of type="tabbed" iirc well, multipage blocks would do that automatically :) which makes the pages become notebook tabs so a type="stepthru" without a new step type most demo forms have multiple pages, but are missing the tapped attribut. it's not missing it's an option do you want to just see a page count or do you want tabs with named pages jcater but multipage blocks wouldn't hide all the extras hide what extras? query, print, next/prev foo, jump to record what I was talkign about was a mode that displayed the 1st page and gave a next, back, cancel button Thats what i want to say. If you want to use a special type="stepthru" , you have to change the toolbar. and that is all they fill in first page hit next they fill in second page hit next 7+---------+---------+------+ | tabbed | string | none | +---------+---------+------+ tabbed has no default! they fill in 3rd page where the next is replaced with Finish as it's the last page of the form press finish and the commit is done Or the tech_ref has to be updated. this is so I can replace crappy mailto forms with gfd forms :) on my website lemme find one I get what you're saying I'm just saying multipage blocks are probably a prerequisite ok sigh mre work and if you had multipage blocks, you could easily simulate such a system without a special tag (even if you did in fact want the special type) Pardon, but whats so great about multipage blocks? Is that not the same, as if they all use the same datasource? Action: jcater is not so sure that multiple blocks can use the same datasource well, i need multipage fields more than multipage blocks Ok, there is the cursor problem, but why don't use a trigger to set the cursor. but that goes against the grain of form's current design you can fake multipage fields w/ non-bound fields and triggers but it can get fugly So the contact.gfd in the CVS don't work. The datasource of all blocks of contact.gfd is "forms". Action: jcater needs a good, stiff drink and some donut holes you know Action: jamest is trying to do that think thing we don't really need multipage anything jan: contact? just a clone="" attribute eek Action: jcater runs jcater? I'm not sure which sample you are referring to I'm describing an old oracle sql*forms feature that was 1/2 baked maybe that scared him away jcater has sql*forms scars too jamest: really???? I've never seen a cloned field "/forms/samples/contact.gfd it couldn't do cloning perfectly Action: jcater has read the Oracle Forms tech reference forwards and backwards but you could setup a read only field that held the value of a different field using triggers? kinda like the default thing but it would accept block.field as it's value no this didn't require triggers but was brain dead Action: jamest only used it a few times jan: ah always fell back to triggers as it worked better jan: technically that form needs to be rewritten ooooo as it's a dataless form, but defined a dataless datasource aah. which isn't necessary blocks don't have to be bound but I'm guessing when this one was written, they did need to be bound any complicated samples using triggers will be dead too except for a few why should two blocks share on datasource? "/should/shouln't/s internals yeah our datasources implement master/detail i think there is no "datasources" directory so they have a concept of current record ok, i come back to the thing after implementing master/detail no datasources dir master/detail is very tricky so beware is the current record stored in the datasource? that's our generic interface to the system it's cause jamest and I countless sleepless night yes and a link to all it's detail recordsets so that I can cruse thru a master/detail set of data changing masters and children at will Action: jan is thinking about implementing master/detail when SOAP, orbit and some other bindings are running :) then commit the whole mess she's a beastie but damn if it don't rock Action: jcater is still giddy about our master/detail setup you sure that isn't quezy? I don't know of another forms implementation that can do master/detail like GNUe can jamest: both definitely both Action: jan is using dictionary (quezy) it's probably misspelled like everything I type it means feeling ill in your stomach oh, "queasy", yep. thinking about implementing master detail makes me feel queasy ;) ok, but why don't use a MVC architecture. Action: jcater tries to hold his dinner down A block is just a view on the datasource um that was more like how the old system was going to work actually, we kinda do in a twisted kind of way Action: jamest doesn't recall if I'd actually ended up implementing it that way it's a fusion of old design and new and it's offspring walk a bit funny, and have only 4 toes like it is allways. (look at GEAS) ;) Action: jcater chokes on his food :) poor jcater nothing like getting a donut hole stuck in your throught while cracking up laughing Action: jan hopes jcater isn't feeling too queasy. Action: jan is looking at the code ok, forget my idea. GFdatasource is pretty empty to be a MVC model. oooo GFDatasource is a wrapper it's part of that old new mergering thing Action: jan is hidding away go to common/src GDataSource GDataObjects and the entire dbdrivers/* dir structure oooooo ok, i confess. I forgot the heritage of GFDatasource make sure you don't have a family history of mental illness but nevertheless GFBlock is caring for too much to make it a simple view. nop. no metal illness just mental sickness. i'm preparing myself to do a master/detail.... mini implementation. ewwwww masochist :) Oh, great ive implemented a master detail implementation in one single block. Ok, thats enough master detail for tonight. :) lol jamest: have a look at the demo3 of the php client. I made a pre alpha version of a wizard. thats what I'm after url? ooooo www.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/gfc.php i set him up an account so we can always show this stuff off :) in fact cool I've put that url into a few mails one to the mysql mailing list and one to that prof. from the univ of australia(?) no pressure jan Action: jan 's hands a bibbering... bibbering ? . /a/are/s bibbering=zittern=fa dou ok? yip shaking i assume Action: jan put the dict away is that form taking data? i can't seem to type on it if this works...... Action: jamest will do a happy dance i have to hand code html forms today with this puppy a form could be built in designer in seconds that is input only from the web yeah. only thing is form cannot send mail to you... , or is there a dbdriver/mailto ? ;) lol no but the trigger system in forms core could do it conceptually, it wouldn't be a problem to have a "write-only" database driver that actually sends an email :) hell our dbdriver system is quite flexible at this point a db backend trigger would do the trick for me the time this would save :) for me too jan um no pressure but how close would you say this is to, um production ready ? :) no pressure eh. eh. seriously there should be done some bug squaching i think stbain (GunAndGiz@ip68-10-44-170.rn.hr.cox.net) left irc: "www.gunandgiz.com" and if you don't need the master detail stuff at once ..... nope i don't ... no RPC, SOAP, orbit,.... just postgres..... with this type of setup today i could get a list of fields from my user create a simple transactions_foo table run designer get the base form then adjust the layout in real time with the user and we'd be done not to mention that the normal forms client would still currently treat this as a normal form so they could use _exact_ same def file to look at the data yep. just the code is a little bit different. lol i just realized something speaking of two forms using one db f.e. I'm not wearing socks they must have rocked right out of here still got shoes on though crafty little buggers those socks Action: jan is wondering about jamest. thought only Al bundy is allways missing his socks. :) well i have both hands on the keyboard instead of one in my pants so I'm ok i think Action: jcater hopes so :) I know this wizard stuff is exciting to ya jamest but please keep your hands on the keyboard um, sure, yeah, ok you bet Action: jamest makes sure he still doesn't have a webcam rofl yip, nothing going on here hey jan....tell me again about the new wizard support? j/k just open the demo3 again. (some changes :) ) hmmm toolbar is back can't type lower arrow doesn't work i wonder if konq is causing this probably I had issues w/konq and his first form but mozilla seemed to work cd yep, i just use mozilla, because i don't want to download the whole kde stuff. dude it's peaceful in here chilly must be sick :) jamest: do you want to test php-form email dbdriver? sure ok, i will put your email into it! ;) fine w/ me jan: that's goatluvin@gnue.org in case you didn't know his email :) oh, i uploaded an jamest@gx version. ok, it should be ready now. jamest: take care for your mailbox jcater: typo goatluvd@gnue.org ah remember do it every timer i'm not a willing participant sure uups. havent changed mail address. :) actually jamest@gnuenterprise.org would be best now it should be ok wow my mozilla is 0.8.1 8.1 should not be very stable. got mail? :) he says as it crashes the mail format is a bit weard. um i got it even this would be handy however we really need to be carefull and figure out how to wrap this into common and reference forms as well this stuff is so cool i want it now though :( btw jan you just need a cached form i.e. a form without datasources and a commit handler who flushes the cache into a mail. how did you get the form layout down so well? lol so basically we could have this today in forms as well via our pre-commit trigger at the form level yep. So easy. i never thought of that dude we need to get php and python playing together as if we could link your stuff into common and forms core Ok, tomorow night i will test your triggers to send mails. i don't think i'd ever have socks again yep would be great. this is too cool i wonder.... jcater: you here? wonder no more! yes I am wasn't there a zope/php adaptor somewhere? yip http://www.zope.org/Members/Ioan/PHPObject I haven't used it and don't know exactly what it's doing i wonder if it'd short circuit the connection to gnue-common and php yes. great stuff. Main routine is: x=os.system("php "+file1+" > "+file2) is it ? ***sniff **** nobody cares for a good php python connection *** sniff**** i do very much so yes. it is.....* sniff** man that's pretty weak os.system lol roflmao oh well I said I'd never actually used it I was so happy to hear about that thing, but after downloading just 6166 bytes i got a strange feeling about it. lol um I think the only good binding is to connect php java and python altogether. By using Enterprise J Beans the persistenz problem is allmost solved..... ok Action: jcater is thinking out loud here but if we don't mind restricting this to apache for the near future we might want to look at mod_python or mod_snake http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/apache/2000/11/08/wrangler.html jamest: should i leave the php form pointing on you email? thats fine with me as long as you like ok. So you allways know when I m testing... = ca. 2000 mail per hour ;) :) echo "jamest: jan" >> /etc/aliases Mod_python is an Apache module that embeds the Python interpreter within the server. With mod_python you can write web-based applications in Python that will run many times faster than traditional CGI and will have access to advanced features such as ability to retain database connections and other data between hits and access to Apache internals. ooooo Even if java is the best direct binding, i didn't like the sound of it. I would prefer RPC or SOAP. and gfclient is a python module so if we can get it to work w/ jan's stuff we are there great deal. because mod_php and mod_python can can use internal redirects.... Maniac (~User@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: ok, just 5 mail per hour ;) :) jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317575.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" Action: jan is doing: apt-get install libapache-mod-python ooooooo and he's a debian fellow too can we keep him? well only if you feed him where are the donuts? lol Donuts, what donuts? My donuts. The ones you want to send me. http://206.155.209.18 great, but where is the donut with an "europe" sign below it? http://www.everythingchange.com/menu.htm dudes! I'm in heaven http://www.krispykreme.com/relationship/outsideemail.asp that's just not right there isn't a KK around here so I don't know how good they could be oooooo but jcater business idea! an mailing list for krispy kreme activities in your area Maniac (User@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" um on that demo is the toolbar supposed to have returned? yep. But you can tell me what do you think is better. I will implement it. ( tomorow ) ok I should have a look on the navigator stuff. Does it defines which buttons should be shown and which not? forms can't do that yet we're working on it do you have an idea how to code it? Should it be defined in the gfd file? An special entity