[00:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s). well some ppl say it is a hack in a way as they should just fix latency issues out right in the kernel and never noticed large copies making X become really jerky but I upgraded my machine to an Athlon 1700+ with same drive hmmm and X becomes unusable when I do large copies jcater: arent there bugs in athlon chip as in, mouse moves every 2 or so seconds it shouldn't do that that linux has surfaced? that's not good derek: yeah, but unrelated to this ok that has to do w/AGP memory corruption plus my athlon model is supposedly part of the "fixed" revisions honestly, this Athlon was a waste of money I also got one for one of my developers and it's perfect for him he's still on windows and uses Borland C++ plus WxWindows to do a project for me jcater: i have heard similar stories of unhappiness w/ athlon greater than 1ghz now he can compile the entire project in a second (used to take over a minute) but my linux machine is no faster than the 400Mhz processor (which was also AMD) gotta love linux um on your linux box what compiler you using? gcc 2.96 or so as borland c++ is like magnitudes faster in compile time than gcc debian woody like over 40 times faster iirc I thought 2.96 was a no no version of gcc I don't really use a compiler under linux though i.e. at last borcon i was at chillywilly: well, whatever's in woody he uses a compiler under windows 2.95.4? only thing I use a compiler for is source installs or kernel compiles they had borland c/c++ build xpilot gawd g++ 3.0.3 is dog slow any development I do is with Python :) and compiled like 40 times faster Action: jcater loves Borland now that it's free and the executable was like 1/3 smaller (in the beer sense) and ran about 15% faster it's painful to use all i can say is the top guy at borland in the 80's 'anders' i think is his name was a FRIGGIN genius yip thier compiler stuff was and still is in my opinion the bomb of course microsoft bought anders soul and put him on j++ I still use their Turbo Pascal 5.5 for quite a bit of DOS stuff :) Action: chillywilly used to use borland when dirst learning c++ in school many moons ago which beat the crap out of sun so bad that sun sued to stop it (1996 or so ;) ) and now i think he is doing c# ick not so much ick as oh crap (imho) when i say the guy was genius i mean it if he is part of c# there is a good chance that there are some techincally good things within c# not much of a genious if you cannot see that ppl deserve to be Free ;) imho C# (pronounced c sharp), is Microsoft's newest language. Anders Hejlsberg, the principal architect behind C#, is known for creating Turbo Pascal (the first IDE) and Borland Delphi (an object-oriented Pascal). After leaving Borland for Microsoft, Anders worked on Visual J++. When the J++ project started to fizzle out, Anders had the opportunity to create another new language. chillywilly: to put in minor perspective pascal which was deemed a 'kiddie' language anders had so optimized by delphi 2.0 that delphi 2.0 was written in delphi (object pascal) instead of C because it was FASTER that way the VCL is still an amazing thing to me what's VCL? but im a python convert now visual component library gui framework? er, toolkit um hard to explain basically reusable objects that played nice between languages and technologies for a long time it was easier to write activeX controls in delphi than vb as you could make native VCL components in delphi and press button to convert them to activeX until M$ broke the API? and you could take activeX and import them into the VCL no thats just it borland actually kept up and actually made M$ change for better example was type libraries there was the m$ way and everyone elses way borland came up with a tool that let you do it one way and export to either way or write either way natively and were sending fixes to m$ crappy implementation ultimately vb started using the borland way :) Action: derek is now having vietnam like com flashbacks cool (not the flashbacks, but the borland stuff) now kylix has the CLX which is like Component Library Xplaatform i.e. xplatform VCL so if you use CLX wtf is kylix anyway? your apps work on either windows or linux w/ only a recompile kylix is delphi for linux literally ah i.e. they recompiled delphi on linux w/ clx and called it kylix but non-free right? why the namechange, then? marketing borland sucks at marketing BAD look at borland->inprise->borland name changing oh whatcauses cvs to not be able to open a dir? are they back to borland now? gah they have are NOTORIOUS for stupid marketing in fact most claim that bad marketing is why borland C fell in favor of visual C from m$ and delphi never took off while vb soared as anyone could tell it wasnt cause m$ had the better product :) yeah... I never understood that indeed and any MFC programmer would tell you it wasnt cause m$ was 'easier' ;) as Borland was no doubt the market leader reminds me of WordPerfect MFC is horrid both companies just "slipped" yeah i really dont get it as its not like they shipped compilers with the Operating System office and explorer etc i can understand I've programmed with it in school cause they could play REALLY dirty it sucks but generally you dont get development software as part of the pc and generally developers pick what is good (read slightly harder to dupe than average user) of course, right now we have CodeWarrier at work :) coool code warrior is a nice product for non-free software yeah all i will say is MANY times when frustrated here i have considered picking up kylix and pounding out a version of what we have in production and releasing GPL only reason we have it, is it cross-compiles (on Win32) to Mac OS 8/9 derek: but I say part of that frustration is you come from Delphi camp well, I should sleep now nite all jcater (jason@24.92.70.39) left irc: "bedknobs and broomsticks" sleep is for the weak interesting you know how mono always claims they are behind but they have a small set compared to microsofts army well the C# development team is a whopping 4 people at m$ ;) Osborn: How many people were involved in the development of C#? Hejlsberg: The language design team consisted of four people. The compiler team had another five developers. consider that mono isnt doing design they are stealing hejlsberg and so tehy are competing against a compiler team of 5 whats their excuse again ? rhys has proven i think that its feasible that 4 to 9 people full time over a year or two can do it dunno rhys is yet another code machine ;) no .net as a whole has a team of 1000 or so that guy is pretty phenomenal er now guess its about my bed time too night Action: chillywilly will go to bed after he's done dicking with kernels Action: chillywilly was at a concert tonight with crazymike hrrrm wtf is vxfs chillywilly (danielb@d19.as28.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: "night" reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.2) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. alexey (alex@ns.techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" alexey (alex@195.151.214.33) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. alexey (alex@195.151.214.33) left irc: Client Quit alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: Client Quit alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@d115.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. stuq_ (~stuq@c5300-3-ip80.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. stuq_ (stuq@c5300-3-ip80.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-3-ip80.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan_ (stuq@c5300-3-ip126.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) chillywilly (danielb@d115.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. warren (warren@HSE-Montreal-ppp3465650.sympatico.ca) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) alexey (alex@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" warren (~warren@HSE-Montreal-ppp3465734.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@24.92.70.39) joined #gnuenterprise. howdy Action: jamest blinks um dude it's 8:25AM sigh you sound like my coworkers lol you noticed that we already get spam on gnue-commit list? how sad ooooo booy Action: jamest just loves spam Action: derek rubs eyes is that jcater? yeah i think he figured out that the freshest doughnuts can only be found roaming the stores early in the morning rofl Action: derek wonders what he is gonna do when he moves like 25 miles from nearest gibsons/kk/etc bbl make history crap must leave Action: derek hates not working from home crap must leave? go away crap! jamest: well i suppose it could be must leave crap ;) ah, that's more like it reminds me of motley crue song um 'dont go away mad, just go away' we still work w/ wxPython 2.2 right? crap dont go away mad, go go away crap as far as i know er actually on windows i have like 2.2.x somethign and i have image error issues sigh we stopped hunting for them as jcater asked me to upgrade wx instead Action: derek never did must go for real my snapshot builds suck alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317943.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317943.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" dsmith (dsmith@cherry7.comerica.com) left irc: "later.." alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) dneighbo (dneighbo@mail.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. any sysadmins here this am? wassup? alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise. sysadmins? in here? um nope damn um have some one here that installed linux w/ 'auto' partitioning i.e. let the os pick it made a really small /var the web server files are there along with /home is there a way to 'repartition' volumes or is it either 'reinstall time' or move stuff to //usr or /home is /usr fairly large? if so, I'd just move /var to /usr/var and ln -s /usr/var /var and stop the automounting of /var hmm smart turd how you stop automounting of /var? i.e. where? though then you lose all of /var's space dneighbo: Edit /etc/fstab ? ok cool dneighbo: well another option is if their's one particular directory in /var taking up most of /var's space you could just move that dir to /usr and symlink it back to /var/. they solved on own i think they just linked /var/www to /usr/www then still mount /var and can still use it for logs and things i slapped their hand for using ftp and telnet though lol [11:52] Last message repeated 1 time(s). one of my users had forms generate the following error msg Bad! Bad! Bad! Action: jamest may need to clean up the error code output a bit roflmao that shoudl have read Bad User!!!!! Bad! Bad! No biscuit! the user is making forms? Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-176.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) Action: dneighbo is impressed as that was the idea, but that says a lot :) um no they are using them oh so you had an error that was bad bad bad Action: jamest is glimpseindexing the source they just discovered it to see where that msg is embedded it is probably worth the time to make sure all our output is politically correct we already get comments on the Wadda ya mean Ba. Ba. Bah. i could just see someone calling me up um this forms says I'm screwed what do you mean? well the error message is "You're Screwed!" error message... oh that......um.....it's a typo "Get out the lube and take it like a man!" rofl ooooooo Action: jamest doesn't like this it's in GFBLocks __getitem__ alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting" in some of my programs i have error messages like "if you read this please call reinhard immediately!" :) lol well, better than "if you read this, reinhard is already vacationing in the Philipines with all your money" rofl especially since you've been dealing with the euro conversion :) i always thought error messages we could expect to see from m$ error 23342: Your data is trashed, for a 89.99 upgrade fee we might be able to get some of it back. error:31137 Serious data loss has occurred. It's the perfect opportunity to install windows 2000 since you have nothing left to lose, except 200.00 or so dollars. dres_ (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Remote closed the connection dres_ (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest/jcater do you guys get bugs@gnue.org email? > from /usr/local/gnue/designer I get > running install_data > error: can't copy 'doc/DevelopersGuide-Forms.txt': doesn't exist or not a > regular file > [root@lewis designer]# ls doc/ > CVS DevelopersGuide-Forms.lyx installer TemplatesAndWizards.txt > > The file is actually named *.lyx > Can I just link this to the txt file? > is what came in here was my response Lewis, You can actually ignore the errors on the docs, its just a matter of distrubition, if you want to eliminate the error simple do a 'touch filename' for any doc file that it says does not exist. This will element the errors. Please note that Python2.2 has a fairly significant unicode bug. Forms will work and so will designer with python2.2 however if you save forms in designer it will save them in funky unicode. So you might want to move back to python2.1.x. We just started finding this bug and are looking for a solution. -Derek ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting" ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Client Quit Action: dneighbo cant remember how to do remove installed packages i.e. the .deb files not the packages Action: dneighbo is having major brain fart locate .deb apt-get clean ah i was man paging apt-cache and trying apt-cache clean :) ah nothing like and apt-get clean to recover 800 or 900 mb's :) Just told the boss today about "apt-get clean". The comment was: "Ahhhhhhhh!" apt-get --scrub=behind-ears would have been better Isomer (dahoose@210-86-58-35.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) left irc: "later.." psu (peter@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all cnrd-away (conrad@dial-ctb023.webone.com.au) got netsplit. cnrd-away (~conrad@dial-ctb023.webone.com.au) returned to #gnuenterprise. dneighbo: I will do an extract of your toothbrush conversation with jcater yesterday actually, already done it but left it on other PC It'll be in this week's KC anyway rofl but I'll also post a non-summarised version to gnue mailing list & web site front page ToyMan (stuq@c5300-3-ip80.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" `atomik (atomik@ottawa-dial-64-26-163-168.d-ip.magma.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. `atomik (atomik@ottawa-dial-64-26-163-168.d-ip.magma.ca) left #gnuenterprise. can i proof it first? as i am seriously thinking of making a more formal article on it dneighbo: no problems I'll email it tomorrow night all i've really done is bullet point it and tidy up punctuation For the KC version, I actually found it quite difficult as humo(u)r doesn't summarise well ;) dneighbo: do US universities have "Rag Weeks" as in UK? students do stupid things for charity, etc? local uni has produced a "Rag Mag" w/lots of very rude/sick jokes I wondered if your mother might like a copy ;-) and ;-| at the same time... hahaha they have 'pledge' weeks where incoming underclassmen are made to do stupid things in order to gain acceptance into sororities or fraternities At my uni, rag week was banned after some students broke into mom might like the rag mag, though often times she doesnt care for 'british' humor the local high-security gaol/jail i.e. she isnt a monty python type fan :) Afer a few years, we were allowed to restart it but more controlled Just some of the jokes in it reminded me of the stuff she sends you ;-) psu (peter@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. night all reinhard (rm@62.47.45.2) left irc: "All things being equal, fat people use more soap" jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@d34.as1.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. sup my poops er peeps ;) grrrr, stupid ppl should not be allowed to use computers Action: chillywilly is sick of being the winblows support man I should install gnu/linux and be done with that shit works for me ever since I put a netqwork card in my mom's machine winblows has problems er, network wat kind of OS cannot handle having a network card installed? a POS M$ OS that's what I have the same card in my server box danielb@frell:~$ uptime 11:39:42 up 22 days, 15:02, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 ;) kdog_away (~keith@novainstruments.com) joined #gnuenterprise. fuck windows! that's gonna hurt :-) Nick change: kdog_away -> kdog dneighbo: I am putting my foot down I am no longer the winblows support man, my solution is to install gnu/linux ;) that'll teach 'em to ask me for help fixing a POS OS dneighbo: sup? work's gotten in the way and I haven't been working on gnue, I'd still like to though. don't talk about it just do it! ;P neilt (~neilt@dhcp64-134-54-181.chan.dca.wayport.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. howdy neilt anyone use gopher? hello all hello cw chillywilly: not since the eighties :-) ;P Action: chillywilly sees that nautilus handles gopher:// now chillywilly: can you update the gnue website? I do not have access i can sup kdog hey d! I found out by enduser email that you put my RH instructions on the website :-) enduser email? I've had 'bout 6 people ask me for help :-) ah snap im sorry i didnt mean to defer people to you the cvs line has a typo in it :-P just wanted to give you proper credit jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317943.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. No problem, I send them here :-) you can also forward any such mails to info@gnue.org and we will answer it as well check hey jeff I'll have to get back on it and round it out. Been busy at work though. Action: chillywilly is in a shitty mood chillywilly: kick back and grab a heiny :-) hiney? I don't have any heineken I don't drink me neither......Pepsi, Coke, MD, Code Red? I got all of those excpet coke as I hate coke code red is my new fav A pepsico fan :-) I grew up within spitting distance of the HQ http://www.gnetlibrary.org/ ew, it still depends on glib 1.2 wtf gawd, I can't believe ppl send this shit out What we want from you is a good and reliable company or personal Account into which we shall transfer thisfund. Details should include the following: 1. Name of Bank 2. Address of Bank with Fax & Tel. No. 3. Account Number