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<nobadnick> y0
<nobadnick> anybody hom?
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<derek> im home
<derek> im off to bed though
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<fdkf> derek
<dnBed> yes
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<fdkf> hey, anyone here?
<ra3vat> fdkf: hi
<fdkf> hey raevat
<fdkf> privet
<ra3vat> privet :)
<fdkf> i just found out about gnue
<fdkf> amazing
<fdkf> and would like to help
<ra3vat> fdkf: you russian?
<fdkf> nop
<ra3vat> speaking?
<fdkf> nop
<fdkf> except for 'privet' ;)
<ra3vat> privet???
<ra3vat> :)
<fdkf> not russian?
<ra3vat> ok
<fdkf> i know a few russian ppl
<fdkf> always saying privet when i come in, guess it means 'hi' or smtn
<ra3vat> i was out for too long not sure i can help with specific questions
<fdkf> i dont have specific questions
<ra3vat> yes, it's like 'hi'
<fdkf> i was wondering how advanced the software was
<ra3vat> the software consists of few tools like
<ra3vat> forms
<ra3vat> designer (for forms)
<ra3vat> geas (app server)
<fdkf> geas currently support design of enterprise objects?
<ra3vat> forms are good enough for 2-tier application
<ra3vat> currently
<fdkf> forms cannot be used with geas?
<ra3vat> geas require more work for production
<fdkf> ok
<fdkf> cause i was working on something in java
<fdkf> rmi based
<fdkf> but not using java classes as base for objects
<ra3vat> forms should work with geas in 3-tier application
<fdkf> i wondered...
<ra3vat> not sure about current status of geas drivers
<fdkf> ever thought of making geas organize objects in hierarchy?
<ra3vat> business objects described in gcd formats
<ra3vat> there is lot of examples for business objects and base modules in /packages in cvs version 
<ra3vat> someone correct me later if i'm wrong in something
<ra3vat> gcd allows to describe objects, and methods definition, geas builds database tables from this
<fdkf> and gcd defines the business logic too?
<fdkf> operations to trigger on storage/retrieval of objects?
<fdkf> ok time for me to sleep
<fdkf> ciao
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<jamest_> morning
<jcater> morning
<jamest_> kinda, um, early isn't it?
<jcater> yeah, well
<jcater> it was a pretty day
<jcater> so I thought I'd bike
Action: jcater won't bike in rush hour
<jcater> so I got up early
<jamest_> :)
<jcater> that'll drain ya if you haven't done it since > 6 months
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<fdkf> hi!
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<jamest_> hi
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<dneighbo> jamest_ / jcater the fellow from lithuania has all installed now and i think is ready to begin working full time on gnue
<dneighbo> where do we want to let him loose at?
<dneighbo> do you guys have any basic cleanup in forms/designer/reports we could start have him look at?
<jamest_> ?????
<jamest_> who?
<dneighbo>  Arturas Kriukovas
<dneighbo> i believe his assignment is all in
<dneighbo> M (the guy i worked for at axis) is paying arturas to work on gnue full time
<jamest_> what?
<dneighbo> as they have recently started a company in lithuania that does free software consulting
<dneighbo> he thinks gnue would be good for business, so in between jobs he is letting one of his developers work on gnue
<jamest_> did I know about this?
<dneighbo> yeah
<dneighbo> just nothing happened with it for a long time
<jamest_> there is a huge todo
<jamest_> does he know python?
<jamest_> dneighbo: can we get more info
<jamest_> so we can find a spot
<dneighbo> well he doesnt speak english really well
<dneighbo> so maybe ra3vat can help some here
<dneighbo> as i think lithuania and russia have somewhat compatiable cyrillic dialects (but ii can guarantee that)
<dneighbo> he doesnt know python natively but he does have degree in computer science
<dneighbo> at one point M asked me what books he should buy for him
<dneighbo> and i suggested the ones that we all have
<dneighbo> so i think he has good 'reference' material
<dneighbo> since this is his job and not for 'fun'
<dneighbo> i dont think he really cares too much what the tasks are
<dneighbo> i would say its safest to find things that are quick wins
<dneighbo> i.e. you dont have to be a python master and doesnt affect tons of files
<jcater> what are his strengths
<jcater> historically
<jcater> C, C++, perl, XML
<dneighbo> jcater: i havent a clue
<dneighbo> i told him originally install the software and get it working and then come back and we will get you going 
<dneighbo> i got this today
<dneighbo> My name is Arturas and I am starting in GNUE project.
<dneighbo> I had to install all GNUE files and all dependencies and then write to
<dneighbo> you.
<dneighbo> I am sorry it took me so long.
<dneighbo> Now it looks like I have installed latest (02.18.) files with all
<dneighbo> dependencies and ready to work.
<dneighbo> on machine elsewhere i have the historical emails i could look at to see what he said re: what he wants to work on etc
<jamest_> hmmm
<jamest_> this is all rather sudden I hope you understand
<dneighbo> sudden :)
<dneighbo> ive been discussing for months :)
<jamest_> huh?
<jamest_> i haven't heard anything about this recently
<dneighbo> i said months :)
<dneighbo> i.e. like around time of lwe SF (august) m mentioned it
<dneighbo> and for like a month was getting paperwork for him etc and getting it primed
<dneighbo> then he disappeared until now :)
<dneighbo> btw: im teasing about sudden, as it suprised me quite a bit too, i had almost forgotten about it (rather given up that it would happen)
<dneighbo> btw: my gut reaction would be that he is a recent college graduate probably equivalent of Masters Degree here in the states
<dneighbo> with little 'on job' experience
<jamest_> ok
<dneighbo> jcater: btw when do our interns start?
<jcater> this week
<jcater> I have one this time
<jcater> didn't want to bite off more than I can chew
<dneighbo> soulstompp: were you wanting to still work on reports?
<jcater> I have him doing an Oracle Reports to GNUe Reports translater
<dneighbo> if so we need to get you assignment paperwork and get you started :)
<dneighbo> jcater: you have who doing that?
<jcater> intern
<dneighbo> intern or soulstompp
<dneighbo> ah how?
<jcater> as it's within his knowledge set
<dneighbo> we dont have reports defined yet
<jcater> well
<dneighbo> i.e. we dont have the tags defined (standard ones anyhow)
<jcater> sorry, users
<jcater> right
<jcater> however, first step is decoding/reading Oracle Reports file
<ra3vat> dneighbo: lithuania and russia have no compatiable cyrillic dialects but most of then spoke russian in ancient USSR age
<fdkf> thanks to stalin :)
<dneighbo> ra3vat : i think he speaks russian as well
<dneighbo> at least his university
<dneighbo> http://www.vtu.lt
<ra3vat> fdkf: oh, another dnue contributor :)
<dneighbo> seems to have two different languages one them russian
<fdkf> i want to help
<fdkf> but have to talk with derek first
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<ra3vat> dneighbo: can you help to find russian on http://www.vtu.lt ? :) 
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<dneighbo> well i used russian to english via babelfish.altavist.com
<dneighbo> and it made the items on the right side of the home page turn into english (or pehaps they were already that way)
<dneighbo> sigh, sorry they were already english it appears
<dsmith> "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak" -> "The vodka is excellent, but the meat is rotten"
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Action: jcater is back (gone 01:11:24)
<jcater> oops
<jcater> guess I went over an hour
<jcater> oh well :)
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<dneighbo> you um fired
<dneighbo> no wait thats more punishment to us and more reward to you
<jcater> no, I haven't fired anyone today
<dneighbo> um you work more hours for less pay, yeah that punishment fo you
<jamest_> jcater gets paid to gnue?
<dneighbo> nope i cant figure out how to direct deposit donuts
<dneighbo> but not for lack of trying
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<dtm> dneighbo: hi
<dtm> dneighbo: hey, are you in KS?
<dneighbo> dtm nope not in ks
<dneighbo> jamest is in ks
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<dtm> dneighbo: huh.  well you just came in from flinthills.com which is in KS
<dtm> OH!  HAHA!  TOTO, YA SAY?  YEAH, THAT'S HILARIOUS!
<dtm> ;)
<dtm> dneighbo_ was from flinthills.com just now
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<dneighbo> um its magic i can be in flinthills and gilbert and phoenix at same time
<dneighbo> aint the net wonderful
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<chillywilly> re
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<chillywilly> this is hilarious
<chillywilly> http://news.com.com/2100-1001-839853.html
<chillywilly> Is Microsoft getting ahead of itself?
<chillywilly> By Mike Ricciuti
<chillywilly> Staff Writer, CNET News.com
<chillywilly> February 19, 2002, 4:00 AM PT
<chillywilly> REDMOND, Wash.--As far back as 1999, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer looked ahead enthusiastically to the rise of Web services as "more significant than the development of the browser."
<chillywilly> In typical Microsoft fashion, the world's largest software manufacturer dived headlong into the trend with a rush of marketing hyperbole. Also in character, at least according to critics, the company created much buzz about the new technology before fully developing its concept, let alone any actual products or services.
<chillywilly> As Microsoft prepares to launch the first trials of .Net My Services this fall, key details of the plan are still "not figured out," said Jim Allchin, Microsoft's group vice president in charge of Windows and server software development. "I think we just got ahead of ourselves and didn't get clear enough thinking," he said, echoing similar concerns voiced last August.
<chillywilly> <http://home.cnet.com/Ads/Media/Images/advertisement-10pt-66.gif>
<chillywilly> [Click Here!]
<chillywilly> That observation has become abundantly clear to those familiar with the initiative inside the company and beyond.
<chillywilly> As originally envisioned, .Net My Services was to become a "digital safe-deposit box" for hosting and delivering personal information while providing an array of services ranging from commerce to communication in partnership with Web retailers such as eBay. The company had hoped consumers would pay fees that would cover the bulk of the expense to run these one-stop services, which would, in turn, manage passwords, calendars and o
<chillywilly> onal information.
<chillywilly> Instead, the plan has been the source of continual confusion among potential customers, has encountered a series of problems with its underlying technologies, and has faced internal frustration that sources say even led to its lead executive being reassigned.
<chillywilly> In surprisingly candid interviews with CNET News.com at company headquarters here, Ballmer and other top executives recently acknowled
<chillywilly> woops
<chillywilly> too much
<chillywilly> "In surprisingly candid interviews with CNET News.com at company headquarters here, Ballmer and other top executives recently acknowledged that Microsoft is still in search of a business plan for the initiative and has not determined how to make money on .Net My Services, nearly a year after it was announced.
<chillywilly> "
<chillywilly> that's what I meant to paste
<chillywilly> sorry guys my mouse got greedy and highlighted it all
<dneighbo> yeah right
<dneighbo> i know you are a m$ mole here to illicit a response
<dneighbo> microsoft has one business model (goat raping)
<dneighbo> and they are seeing a faction (rather army) of COMPETENT developers using and propogating (free as in beer) tools not only rivaling but in some cases surpassing their own
<dneighbo> they took the next logical step in goat raping 'total control of the consumer' (passport and friends)
<dneighbo> and suprisingly the public said fsck you m$ we dont want you that close in our consuming habits, we have seen your game before
<dneighbo> so now m$ is left holding a marketing hyped machine (web services) that they really dont know how they are gonna leverage cash out of
<dneighbo> bbl
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<jamest> hello
<jamest> neilt: you play w/ forms/designer much now that it's on mac os x
<jamest> ?
<neilt> no not yet
<neilt> i did the one screen
<neilt> but the learning curve is high
<neilt> at least when I dont have any time
<jamest> ooooo
<jamest> is it too confusing?
<neilt> I am in class all week, and still doing work
<neilt> so i am just out of time
<jamest> feedback on what is hard to pick up would be huge help
<neilt> ok,
<neilt> when i get time I'll let you know
<neilt> I am in Siebel Implementation class
<neilt> should be done at the end of this week
<jamest> cool
<neilt> not so cool, my body does not work well with 10 solid days of classes
<jamest> lol
<neilt> i am used to moving around
<neilt> and thinking
<jamest> thinking is not allowed in class?
<neilt> well, maybe its that I am not used to listening
<jamest> :)
<jamest> i figured it was a class aimed at management
<jamest> "Air is good."
<jamest> j/k
<neilt> no its a class aimed at dba's and other technical implementors that intend to modify or customize Siebel
<neilt> I do have a good understanding of how they implemented their object based middleware
<jamest> and?
<jamest> is it good?
<neilt> some of it is really eye opening
<neilt> the rest is crap
<neilt> oh
<neilt> and some of it is probably in the middle
<jamest> eye opening crap?
<neilt> could be
<neilt> of course its is propretiary
<neilt> so i cant talk about it
Action: chillywilly gives it 2 thumbs down
<chillywilly> they make you sign your life away?
<neilt> sure did
<chillywilly> sign an NDA?
<neilt> sure did
<chillywilly> fooey
<chillywilly> just say "no"
<chillywilly> ;)
<neilt> I also have an NDA with microsoft (because I am a developer) and Apple (developer), Intuit (beta tester Quicken), and metrowerks (C, C++ Tools beta tester).
<jamest> um is something up with dnBed?
<neilt> its his time of the year :)
<chillywilly> anyone know how I can take 2 avi movies and glue them together...I want one avi of jay and silent bob strikes back
<jamest> :)
<chillywilly> hybernation time
<neilt> chillywilly: seems hard to get paid if you dont sign NDA's
<chillywilly> hrrrrm
<neilt> someone thinks information is valueable
<chillywilly> information wants to be Free
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> anyway...
Action: chillywilly tries 'kino'
<jamest> information implies order, any system with order drifts toward chaos, thus information wants chaos and maybe some nachos
<neilt> entropy theory
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<chillywilly> mmm, nachos
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<jamest> :)
<jamest> it's pretty quiet typically
<jamest> but someone is usually around to help
<jamest> anything we can help with?
<zDuff> Okay... I'm doing some work for a car dealership looking to rewrite and modernize its internal systems (initially the sales and finance & insurance modules) and add a CRM module. GNUe looks like it might be a suitable replacement for the aging, proprietary backend we currently use, UNIFY.
<jamest> ok
<zDuff> At first glance, it looks that what 'yall offer is rather similar -- a system for creating forms and tying them to the database, for instance... I'm just looking to get started in determining what GNUe currently does beyond that and whether it's mature enough to be useful.
<jamest> well
<jamest> we have a lot of package definitions in cvs
<jamest> however all are written with the idea of being run against geas
<jamest> which still needs some work to be up to speed for a biz
<jamest> however
<jamest> all of our tools stand alone
<jamest> you can use forms, designer, etc to create those new screens today
<jamest> and migrate them into a geas system when it's a bit more mature
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<zDuff> jamest, if the geas issues are strictly performance-related, then they're not a big deal -- our server is extreme overkill for our current needs (though that may be due to it being modern hardware running an app written in the '80s).
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<chillywilly> damn skippy, GNUe is built for today!
<chillywilly> "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots"
<chillywilly>  
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<jcater> late start, dude
<derek> yeah i had church tonight
<derek> what is phrase
<derek> sleep all day, up all night
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<chillywilly> up aaaaallll niiiiight
<chillywilly> sleeeep aaaaalllll daaaaaay
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<dsmith> chillywilly: I'm on a gig where I can't get email all day.  I can only access the Inet through web proxies.
<dsmith> (my lame excuse for being on irc around midnight)
<chillywilly> excuses....
[22:59] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> ;P
<dsmith> Trying (and failing!) to get the wireless card working in ad-hoc mode under obsd.
<chillywilly> bsd is for weenies ;P
<dsmith> Access-point mode works, though.
<chillywilly> real men user GNU :)
<dsmith> Yeah, I'm not man enough to keep up with security updates all the time.
<chillywilly> er, use
<dsmith> Well, I use emacs over vi.  Vi is from bsd, emacs is from gnu.
<chillywilly> hmmm, I don;t seem to be needing to keep up with any either
<chillywilly> maybe it is because debian unstable had all the fixes in it already
Action: dsmith apt-get update's almost every day.
<chillywilly> er, has
Action: chillywilly apt-gets into it
Action: chillywilly hacks up some debugging streams for gnu common c++
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