[00:44] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201091.flinthills.com) left #gnuenterprise.
chillywilly (danielb@d169.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: 
reinhard (~rm@N809P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise.
zDuff (~cduffy@adsl-66-122-182-131.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Mr_You>   re
ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Mr_You> hey ra3vat
<ra3vat> hello Mr_You
<Mr_You> We are thus the only generation between the Norman Conquest and the 
<Mr_You> year
<Mr_You> 3000 to experience two palindromic years within a normal lifetime.
<Mr_You> Also you may observe that ours is the only generation to experience
<Mr_You> two palindromic years, 1991 and 2002, in a normal lifetime
<Mr_You> 1991 can be read forward and backward, its the same (palindromic year)
zDuff (cduffy@adsl-66-122-182-131.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<reinhard> Mr_You: you noticed that we had a palindromic second yesterday?
<reinhard> 20/02/2002 20:02
<Mr_You> yeah, someone mentioned that, I just realized
<nickr> funky
zDuff (~cduffy@adsl-66-122-182-131.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
SachaS (SachaS@80.66.225.55) joined #gnuenterprise.
<reinhard> hey SachaS
<SachaS> hi reinhard
<SachaS> did you travel back to austria well?
<reinhard> how's the weather in sweden?
<reinhard> yes the travel was fine
<SachaS> i am already back in liechtenstein
<reinhard> ah oh
<SachaS> the open ebxml laboratory in sweden looks good.
<SachaS> the open ebxml laboratory is placed at a university in stockholm / kista
<SachaS> so there are studends working on the open ebxml project at this moment.
<SachaS> they were interested in gnu enterprise because they concentrated on ebxml itself
<reinhard> cool
<SachaS> but when you want to use ebxml you somewhere need a business application (gnue)
<SachaS> we just realized that there are no GOOD FREE BUSINESS APPLICATIONS out there yet.
<SachaS> so they are interested in what happens with gnue.
<SachaS> reinhard: are you programming for geas ?
<reinhard> in principal yes
<reinhard> at the moment no :(
<reinhard> two weeks ago it looked like i could start again working for geas
<reinhard> but the mad goats (= real work) came back ;)
<SachaS> haha
<SachaS> did you go to the presentation of miguel about mono?
<reinhard> no
<SachaS> me neither. had to go to the airport :(
<reinhard> i had a romantic afternoon with my wife in the city of brussels on sunday :)
<SachaS> thats good then
<reinhard> and i wasn't very interested in hearing him talk about how great microsoft is
<SachaS> maybe there were some critical questions from the audience .....
<SachaS> when i get back to perth i want to setup designer, forms again to see how far it is.
<SachaS> no i have to find a supervisor in perth.
<SachaS> if i do not find a supervisor in perth i might even go to sweden.
<SachaS> but i would prefer perth because of the beach, sun etc.
<reinhard> hmmm
<reinhard> probably better weather for bathing in australia than in sweden
<reinhard> :)
zDuff (cduffy@adsl-66-122-182-131.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<SachaS> ok. i am off for lunch. see another day.
<reinhard> l8r
SachaS (SachaS@80.66.225.55) left #gnuenterprise.
drochaid (user34@pc1-kirk2-0-cust128.ren.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
zDuff (~cduffy@adsl-66-122-182-131.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
TypeRite (~jijo@gusi.leathercollection.ph) joined #gnuenterprise.
jbeyer (lxdev70b@grossetto.cinetic.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jbeyer> hi, anybody here?
<reinhard> yes
<jbeyer> we just mailed a few minutes ago?
<reinhard> jo
<reinhard> if you are waiting for the discussion...
<reinhard> it usually starts as soon as the american part of the world is awake
<reinhard> around 14:30 or 15:00 our time
<reinhard> so it should start soon
<reinhard> meanwhile if you have questions about gnue please ask
<reinhard> i _might_ be able to help
<jbeyer> since when you are working on gnue?
<jbeyer> and what's your role?
<reinhard> i joined somewhere around fall 1999 (IIRC)
<reinhard> and i hack on geas (the application server) as often as i have time
<reinhard> which is not as often as i would like to
<jbeyer> :-)
<TypeRite> reinhard: is CVS checkout access unrestricted? I can't seem to find references to CVS in the website.
<jbeyer> I have not tried, I downloaded some tarballs
<reinhard> TypeRite: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=2
<reinhard> the link is perfectly hidden on the front web page
<jbeyer> I down loaded forms, the designer , geas ans something that looks like a cvs snapshot
<TypeRite> reinhard: ahh!!! thank you, thank you. :)
jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<TypeRite> would anyone know what software was used to set up the various diagrams available in the documentation online?
<Isomer> probably Dia
<reinhard> morning jamest
<reinhard> jbeyer came here to see some discussion
<reinhard> so
<reinhard> did you think about my proposal of rewriting gnuef in java?
<jamest> argh!
<reinhard> j/k
<jamest> :)
<jamest> just reading my mail
<jamest> and hit jbeyer's mail
<TypeRite> I am nobody here, but one of the reasons why I'm interested in GNUe is it's written in Python. :)
<jbeyer> that's me
<jamest> actually we're writing in python but will drop back to C where he hit performance problems
<jamest> or in the base of geas....it's all in C at this time
<jamest> base = case
<jbeyer> I just saw some broken links in the download area.
<jamest> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/
<jamest> we are using php-nuke for our web site
<jamest> but it's download manager was IMHO a major pain
<jamest> i thought i'd fixed the links though
Action: jamest goes to look at links
<jamest> oooo
<jamest> did you try the download link or a link from a story?
<jbeyer> that (http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/ ) is what I found later :-)
<jamest> ok
<jbeyer> on the page http://www.gnuenterprise.org/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=7
<TypeRite> jamest: that sounds like a very good way to do things. Python as the glue, with C handling the performance-intensive portions.
<jbeyer> there is a line "screenshots downloads docu"
<jbeyer> The download links works, but the actual downloads on e.g. page
<jbeyer> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/download.php?op=viewsdownload&sid=1
<jbeyer> down work for me.
<jbeyer> don't work for me.
<jamest> fixing
<jamest> jbeyer or TypeRite: anything you wish to know about us?
<TypeRite> jamest: I'm just lurking for awhile, if you don't mind. going through online documents seeing how things are and if I can do anything to help.
<TypeRite> jamest: GNUe is the only open source ERP solution I know of now, and the fact it's written in Python makes me jump up and down in joy. :)
<jamest> lol
<jbeyer> how much of the gnue code is actually working?
<jbeyer> or lets put it this way:
<jbeyer> is anybody using it in production?
<jbeyer> (no pun intended)
<jamest> working?  you want working code?!?!
<jamest> man, some people
<jbeyer> :-)
<jamest> um
<jamest> reinhard can talk about geas as he knows it better than I
<jamest> as for forms and designer they are usable today
<jamest> they are also used in production
<jbeyer> you feed them an xml description of the gui and it has backends...
<jamest> yes
<jbeyer> to produce the gui?
<jamest> yes
<jamest> what we have on the forms side of things
<jbeyer> what xml parser are you using?
<jamest> pyxml
<jamest> with our own custom wrapper parser
<TypeRite> jamest: if I want to get a feel of the code, which "module" should I start with?
<jbeyer> this one? http://sourceforge.net/projects/pyxml ?
<jamest> jbeyer: yes
<jamest> ok
<jamest> on the python side of the fence
<jamest> gnue-common is the core of forms, designer, navigator, and reports
<jamest>  it provides a lot of the core functionality of these tools
<jamest>     a dictionary based xml parser that maps to GObj (our base python object) trees
<jamest>   a data engine that has drivers for every python db api 2.0 available 
<jamest>    (we'll also support non-db api 2.0 drivers)
<jamest>   a app framework that embeds a debug system, config system, profiling system, 
alexey (alex@news.techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat"
<jamest> forms is our user interface system
<jamest> designer currenly writes only form xml files
<jbeyer> that sound very interesting
<jamest>   however its capable of handling any xml format defined in our GParser format
<reinhard> on the status of geas
<jamest>   so if the forms gfd format changes designer adjusts automatically
<reinhard> geas is in a state where it basically works (more or less)
Action: jamest shuts up to let reinhard speak
<reinhard> but the code has become unmaintainable
<reinhard> and we are in the process of rewriting part by part
<reinhard> so if you are a "developer" we would greatly appreciate help in doing this as it's hard and time consuming work
<reinhard> if you are a "user" you'd better keep your hands off geas for the time being :)
<TypeRite> reinhard: do you discuss work primarily on IRC or also via the mailing lists?
Action: reinhard hands the microphone back to jamest
<jbeyer> I am not running .-)
<reinhard> ;)
<TypeRite> reinhard: I'm not a "developer" in the sense of being "production ready/tested" (so maybe I'm similar to GNUe? kidding), but I'd like to see if maybe I can find a slot to fit into and pitch in some manpower.
<jamest> navigator is currently a brain dead navigation system
<reinhard> TypeRite: we discuss most in IRC and we try to document the most important decisions via mailing list later
<jamest>   its a quick hack based upon common that lets you define processes
<jamest>   these processes define steps that run forms, or apps
<jamest>   some day this will support role based access control
<jamest>   but not today
<jamest> :)
<jamest> reports can generate reports
<jamest>   :)
<jamest>   but is not complete
<jamest>   it can be used however
<jamest>   it's author used it to generate something like a 10,000 letter mailing to their customer base IIRC
<jamest> so to play
<jamest>   i'd grab common, forms, designer if python was your thing
<jamest>   i'd grab geas if C and object servers are your thing
<jamest> if you're looking for an interesting project
<jamest>   the geas/forms interface is currently at a standstill due to problems on my machine
Action: jamest is not sure he is helping people here
<jamest> am I answering your questions ok?
<jbeyer> yes.
<TypeRite> jamest: yes.
<jamest> ok
<jamest> TypeRite: we can always use the help
<TypeRite> jamest: I have been quiet, reading in awe, raving about your friendliness and helpfullness in our local Python/Linux group's channel.
<jamest> huh?
<jamest> people know about #gnuenterprise outside of #gnuenterprise?
<jamest> wow
<TypeRite> jamest: hahaha.
<TypeRite> jamest: I told the local LUG and Python SIG about it. I'm from the Philippines.
<TypeRite> jamest: I know of at least two people who looked at things. I am still trying to get them to get interested enough to pitch in. they're more seasoned than I.
<jamest> ok
<TypeRite> jamest: thank you again for your help explaining things. I've got a CVS snapshot as of today and will see if I can find my way around things. :)
<jamest> TypeRite: ok, if you have cvs
<jamest> do this
<jamest> cd cvs/gnue
<jamest> python setup-cvs.py
<jamest> and answer the questions
<jamest> you'll end up with 
<jamest> gfcvs - forms from your local cvs tree
<jamest> grcvs - reports from cvs tree
<TypeRite> jamest: everything will run from wherever the CVS copy is?
<jamest> gncvs - navigator from cvs
<jamest> yes
<jamest> that setup-cvs.py script was created so that you could still work
<TypeRite> jamest: cool. oh, any news on GNUe and Python 2.2? I've got both 2.1 and 2.2 and wonder which you think I should use for the CVS-running copy.
<jamest> with a stable copy installed 
<jamest> while using these commands to use your private (and edited) cvs tree
<jamest> well, I have heard it works on 2.2
<jamest> but i have 2.0 and 2.1 installs here
<TypeRite> jamest: okay. since this is a dev copy I'll bite the bullet with 2.2. ;>
<jamest> :)
<jamest> bbiaf
<TypeRite> interesting, there are Debian packages for gnue-common, gnue-forms and gnue-designer.
<reinhard> yep
<reinhard> and for geas
<TypeRite> and geas.
<reinhard> even
<reinhard> lol
<reinhard> yes what you said:)
<TypeRite> reinhard: haha. :)
<jamest> yes
<TypeRite> reinhard: it seems the cvs-running setup doesn't do anything about GEAS so I'll have to grab that package.
<jamest> yeah
<reinhard> yes
<jamest> the python tools use distutils and geas uses autoconf
<jbeyer> where do I find a uulib?
<reinhard> geas is somewhat separate from the front end tools
<reinhard> jbeyer: look for a package called e2fsprog-dev or like that
<TypeRite> jbeyer: or on Debian, uuid-dev, I think.
<jbeyer> I google for that :-)
dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Remote closed the connection
dres (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: TypeRite has to go and sleep.
Action: TypeRite thanks reinhard and jamest again for their help.
<reinhard> night TypeRite
TypeRite (jijo@gusi.leathercollection.ph) left irc: "Bed Time Blues"
Nick change: derek -> dnWork
dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
dres (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
zDuff (cduffy@adsl-66-122-182-131.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> bbias
jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise.
jbeyer (lxdev70b@grossetto.cinetic.de) left irc: "Leaving"
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
zDuff (~cduffy@adsl-66-122-182-131.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise.
dneighbo (~dneighbo@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
zDuff (cduffy@adsl-66-122-182-131.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp319360.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
zDuff (~cduffy@adsl-66-122-182-131.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
zDuff (~cduffy@adsl-66-122-182-131.dsl.chic01.pacbell.net) left #gnuenterprise.
jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp319360.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting"
reinhard (rm@N809P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate"
ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting"
ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Client Quit
ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.2) joined #gnuenterprise.
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: "[=V97=] Leaving"
alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting"
Arturas (~artkri@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> hello Arturas i apologize for not responding to your mail yesterday
<dneighbo> we had some other pressing tasks on the administration side to take care of :):
<Arturas> hello Derek. That's not a problem
<Arturas> I can allways wai
<Arturas> ... wait
<dneighbo> please tell M i say 'hello'
<Arturas> ok
<Arturas> Do you have time now?
<dneighbo> yes
<dneighbo> we discussed your mail a little bit yesterday and where we wanted to put you to work :)
<dneighbo> but we want to know more your programming background and more importantly what you would be interested to work on :)
<Arturas> I'm fluent in Delphi => visual programming
<Arturas> learned XML
<dneighbo> there is no shortage of things to do, its just a matter of getting you started :
<Arturas> learning C++
<dneighbo> Arturas : im ex delphi programmer :)
<Arturas> :)
<dneighbo> i will say python is a VERY easy transition from delphi
<Arturas> yes, it is for sure :)
<Arturas> but as i look into all this project
<Arturas> it all is so huge and i just would like to participate everywhere :)
<dneighbo> what language is your native language? (as we have several people that speak russian working on gnue)
<Arturas> native is Lithuanian
<dneighbo> Arturas thats the perfect answer :) we like people willing to work anywhere/everywhere :)
<Arturas> can read/write in Russian (and English ;)
<Arturas> can read in German
<Arturas> undestand and weakly read in Polish
<Arturas> maybe some Norwegian
<dneighbo> ra3vat : is outside of moscow and i think creating a russian mailing list for gnue, you will probably want to help him with it
<dneighbo> so that things get communicated back to the english lists and such
<dneighbo> i think there is a lot of stuff that needs work i will list probably some options
<dneighbo> - clean up/refactoring of gnue forms (probably best introductory stuff)
<ra3vat> dneighbo: it's him not me who can help for rest of us with languages :)
<Arturas> ( so I just can't chose any especial part of this project)
<dneighbo> - extending/finishing gnue-common rpc abstraction
<dneighbo> Arturas by all means yes
<dneighbo> if there is a particular piece you want to work on just let us know :)
<dneighbo> i thought you wanted to work on everything so i was gonna list some of the 'hot' todo's :)
<Arturas> problem is that i just don't know :\
<Arturas> what from to chose
<dneighbo> well that is why i was gonna suggest a few :)
<Arturas> and yes, i liked your idea of suggestions
<dneighbo> - clean up/refactoring of gnue forms (probably best introductory stuff)
<dneighbo> - extending/finishing gnue-common rpc abstraction
<Arturas> what is abstaction?
<Arturas> what is abstraction?
<dneighbo> - doing work on report engine
<dneighbo> - doing work on designer
<dneighbo> abstraction means to make it non detailed
<dneighbo> a good example would be perl DBI
<dneighbo> it abstracts perl calls to a SINGLE db interface
<dneighbo> so you dont have to write separate perl code for every database you wish to use 
<dneighbo> ex:
<dneighbo> oracle might be db.connect()
<dneighbo> sybase maybe db.connection()
<Arturas> but it can be too hard for me - i don't know yet all the details about your project
<Arturas> can make good abstraction
<dneighbo> postgres maybe db.conn()
<Arturas> but itmay not fit you
<dneighbo> so perl DBI creates db.Connect() and it knows what to call based by settings you gave it
<dneighbo> well the abstraction for rpc
<dneighbo> would be thigns like DCOM, SOAP, XML-RPC, CORBA etc
<Arturas> know only few details about them
<dneighbo> so you really dont have to know a lot about GNUe specifically to do it, but its a pretty large and complex undertaking
<dneighbo> i think we should talk to jcater and jamest and see if they have some stuff in forms or designer that we can start you with
<dneighbo> that will allow you get a better understanding of the internals of gnue, but while doing something useful :)
<Arturas> probabaly that would be best thing for start :)
<Arturas> :)
<dneighbo> jcater / jamest .....
<Arturas> i will have to quit after ~20 minutes
<dneighbo> ra3vat did you ever get that russian list setup?
<dneighbo> Arturas : are you on metered time?
Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Arturas> yes
<Arturas> now i am in university
<Yurik> re
<dneighbo> if so maybe we can try to schedule a time for you to meet us here
<Arturas> it's 20:33 and it closes strictly in 21:00 :\
<dneighbo> ah
<Arturas> what time is at you? ;)
<dneighbo> so its unlimited during open hours
<Arturas> yes
<dneighbo> im at 11:41
<ra3vat> dneighbo: there was not much activity, suggestion was to put it where other lists live 
<dneighbo> so we are at like a 9 hr diff, but jamest and jcater are only like a 7 hour diff from you
<Arturas> :) not a very big difference :)
<dneighbo> probably a good time to come back is between 18 - 21 your time
<dneighbo> er 18:00 - 21:00
<Arturas> I didn't expect to meet you today here
<Arturas> but tomorrow i will sit here from 17:00 :)
<dneighbo> im glad we got to meet at least 'virtually' :)
<Arturas> me too
<dneighbo> Arturas sounds good, tell M he is 'cheap' he should be paying for your internet connection full time ;)
<ra3vat> Arturas: one hour difference from me
<Arturas> :)
<dneighbo> is M still living there in lithuania?
<Arturas> yes, he is 
<dneighbo> he keeping busy?
<Arturas> ?
<dneighbo> is he staying out of trouble :)
<Arturas> don't know this :/
<Arturas> I guess you know www.codeworks.lt :)
<dneighbo> nope will have to check it out
<Arturas> M's firm (?) is called CodeWorks.lt and there is their site
<dneighbo> trying to find you something before the computer lab there closes and you have to leave
<dneighbo> interesting
<dneighbo> you are working for him right?
<Arturas> in some way
<Arturas> he accepted me
<Arturas> gave me computer
<Arturas> and told to communicate with you :)
<Arturas> do you know Bryan too?
<dneighbo> what is bryan's last name?
<Arturas> Bryan Rodgers 
<Arturas> (if ai'm not mistakening)
<Arturas> (if i'm not mistakening)
<dneighbo> hmm does not ring a bell
<Arturas> he works with M too
<dneighbo> is he in lithuania or here in the states?
<Arturas> so I thought you might know him
<Arturas> _now_ he is in Lithuania
<Arturas> but from States
<dneighbo> ah name sounds kind of familiar but i dont think i know him
<dneighbo> probably not too many lithuanians with last name rodgers :)
<Arturas> :)
<Arturas> I guess we could find one :)
<dneighbo> was looking for our current TODO but i can not find it so we can discuss tomorrow
<Arturas> ok
<Arturas> I will be here from 17:00 my time
<dneighbo> sounds good, have a good night
<Arturas> you too :)
<Arturas> have a good day :)
<dneighbo> i have tradition of trying to learn some of the language of those contributing to gnue
<dneighbo> how do you say? 'good night' in lithuanian?
<Arturas> 'Labanaktis'
<Arturas> very nice tradition
<dneighbo> well then
<Arturas> bye
<dneighbo> Labanaktis and will see you tomorrow :)
Arturas (artkri@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: 
<dneighbo> ra3vat im curious about the diff between russian and lithuanian.. how do you say good night in russian (or yurik you probably know this too ) :)
<Yurik> dneighbo: the difference is very big
<Yurik> dneighbo: between russian and lithuanian
<ra3vat> dneighbo: 'spokoinoi nochi'
<Yurik> dneighbo: we say "spokoinoi nochi" in Russian
<ra3vat> dneighbo: now make a diff
<Yurik> dneighbo: russian (and ukranian, bielorussian, and so on) are slav language, when lithuanian is baltic (?)
<Yurik> s/language/languages/
<dneighbo> ah i was just going to ask that :)
<dneighbo> i.e. what are the deviations
<dneighbo> as we used to have arno from estonia
<dneighbo> and iirc estonian is a cross between finnish and russian
<dneighbo> as about every 100 years who 'owned' estonia would change :)
Action: dneighbo likes the geography plus world history lessons :)
<Yurik> :-)
<dneighbo> they dont teach us much about russia / eastern block countries in school at all here (or at least not when i was in school)
Action: Yurik is trying to imaginate something cross between finnish and russian.. brr!
<dneighbo> Yurik it might not be finnish, but some nordic country
<Yurik> of course, russian (and exUSSR) is an antipod country for us :)
<Yurik> yes, nordic
<Yurik> baltic (?)
<Yurik> s/russian/Russia/
<Yurik> us = U.S. :)
Action: Yurik is thinking to buye some mayonnaise
Action: Yurik is thinking to buy some mayonnaise
<dsmith> Estonia perhaps ?
Action: Yurik returned and bought some mayonnaise, sausage
<dneighbo> Yurik there is a rule in this channel
<dneighbo> you can't talk about food unless:
<dneighbo> a. you plan on sharing it with someone else in the channel
<dneighbo> b. you are trying to coerce jcater into doing something for you
<Yurik> heh
<dneighbo> we had to do this, because some of us gnue developers have eating problems....
<dneighbo> problem is we eat everything :)
<Yurik> heh
psu (peter@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Yurik> psu: hi
<psu> hi Yurik
Action: dsmith shares his lemonheads with everyone
Action: psu eyes proffered lemonhead suspiciously
Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: "Client Exiting"
dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Remote closed the connection
dres (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: dsmith pops another lemonhead
dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Remote closed the connection
dres (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting"
dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
chillywilly (~danielb@d108.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<psu> hi chillywilly
<chillywilly> sup dawg
<chillywilly> hey reinhard dude
<chillywilly> you live
Action: dsmith tosses chillywilly a lemonhead
<chillywilly> thanks
<reinhard> chillywilly: something comparable to life, yes
<reinhard> ;)
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> bbl
Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy
jamest (jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) got netsplit.
jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) got lost in the net-split.
jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jan (jan@port218.waldbroel.ndh.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jan> hi reinhard. I`ve some questions about GEAS.
<reinhard> ok
<jan> How difficult is it to write an other "connection" to GEAS.
<jan> f.e. SOAP or RPC.
<reinhard> future: easy, because CORBA code is pulled out of the functional code of geas, and CORBA is only the outmost layer
<reinhard> present: very difficult because CORBA code is spread all over geas
Action: jan is dreaming of the future
Action: reinhard hopes the future is not _so_ distant
<jan> and your focus is on the parser at the moment, or not?
<reinhard> yes and no
<reinhard> my focus is actually rewriting geas part by part
<reinhard> and i choose to start with the parser as it is the "lowest" level
<reinhard> i am a believer in bottom up development
<reinhard> i decided to rewrite module by module and "plug in" the new ones instead of the respective old ones
<jan> and how many "level" are above the parser?
<reinhard> there are several other modules at the same level actually
<reinhard> biggest parts are the database abstraction part
<reinhard> which we are planning to merge with what forms has
<reinhard> and the method calling part
<jan> how many dbs does GEAS support at the moment? postgres, mysql any other?
<reinhard> these 3 make the low level
<reinhard> at the moment we support postgres and mysql
<reinhard> in geas
<reinhard> and a lot more in forms
neilt (~neilt@dhcp64-134-54-181.chan.dca.wayport.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<jan> whe you write the modules to plug into the old code, do you change the "main" code, or do you first have a layer in between to simulate the old code and keep the "main" code the same?
<jan> ./whe/when/s
<reinhard> jan: you are exactly pointing out the main problem i am facing
<reinhard> i change the main code
<reinhard> which is a major PITA
<reinhard> in fact much more of a PITA than i expected
<reinhard> AND
<reinhard> it breaks things :(
<reinhard> btw hi neilt
<neilt> he reinhard
<neilt> thanks for the fix
<neilt> s/he/hi/
<reinhard> jan: otoh it forces me to look at the "main" code and understand how it works
<reinhard> which will (hopefully) help me when replacing the next parts
<jan> porting an app from win to unix i`ve done the last way. leaving the "main" code the same and just difference of hidding the old and new module code behind a new function
<jan> an other approche is to separate GEAS into pieces and make an top-down rewrite.
<reinhard> yeah
<reinhard> actually we wanted something like that
<reinhard> separation into pieces
<neilt> how about horizontal rewrites
<reinhard> but it's like you want to separate a plate of spaghetti into the red and the yellow ones
<reinhard> neilt: sorry never heard of that
<reinhard> what is horizontal rewrite?
<reinhard> rewriting while lying in bed?
<neilt> just carve a bit off and rewrite it
<neilt> :)
<neilt> i like your description better
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> still not sure if i understand what it would mean
<reinhard> can you give an example to explain?
<jan> reinhard: do you have allready seperated the way the parsed data is stored?
<reinhard> jan: yes
<reinhard> that's one of the "plugging" problems
<neilt> i say we just re-write it
<reinhard> the original author of geas seems to not have believed in the concept of private data structures :)
<neilt> I think a complete rewrite would allow to separate out parts better and get more help
<jan> there are many other ones not believing in "private" data ;)
<neilt> also I think we should be thinking about multiptle servers instead of one monolithic one
<jan> do you have a concept?
<neilt> we need to build it from the ground up mult-threaded
<neilt> with a workflow engine at the core
<neilt> :)
Action: reinhard is confused now about whether the :) relates only to the last post or to more
<reinhard> i would be serious about multithreading
Action: jan is trying to think it over again...
<jan> the parser builds up an object template tree. right?
<neilt> reinhard: it relates to me not wanting to ruffle any feathers
<reinhard> neilt: ah ok
Action: reinhard wonders why good discussions always start after midnight his time :)
psu (peter@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<jan> why don`t make the object templates a kind of active, so you just need a container to build them up and store them, and let there buisness logic kind of work. so different templates can be connected with differnt servers or diff. threads...
Action: dsmith is away: food
<neilt> yes thats where I think we need to go also
Action: jan didn`t know much about object servers..., but just tries to imagine
<dneighbo> im coming in half way to a conversation
<dneighbo> but please please please do not add rpc stuff to geas
<dneighbo> we plan on removing that from geas so you would be doing work only to be undone later
<neilt> geas does not work without rpc
<dneighbo> if you want to be productive in moving it forward look at common and there are some rpc abstraction classes there
<dneighbo> that will be tooled into geas
<dneighbo> neilt : im not saying that it wont
<dneighbo> im sayin gdont make it use SOAP by hardcoding it or writing abstraction in GEAS itself
<dneighbo> as of today GEAS is CORBA only
<dneighbo> if we want it other than CORBA lets not duplicate work
<dneighbo> fix it in common and make GEAS use common
<jan> should geas call the python code from common, or should the common code geas is using be rewritten in C?
<reinhard> jan: i think we are only thinking out loud here
<reinhard> but nobody has looked at how to actually do it
<reinhard> we just know we want it somehow :)
Action: jan understands. But
Action: jan hates not working orbit-language- bindings.
<jan> A very important step is to make the ERP packages working now.
<jan> Using forms and designer is very impressive, but
<jan> trying out an working fincancial package would be the hit!
<jan> _/fincancial/financial/
<dneighbo> we dont have our direction decided for geas at this point
<dneighbo> so it would be unfair for us to ask you to do work on it until we decide
<jan> You mean, you haven`t decided how to rewrite it?
<jan> Or even to do a complete rewrite? Or do you think of a complete replacement by something different?
<dneighbo> i think it best to rewrite it (in some cases using concepts/pieces) from original
<dneighbo> i STRONGLY think it needs to be in written in python
<dneighbo> for coherency
<dneighbo> and speed of development
<dneighbo> and if parts are slow its easy enough to move them to C
<jan> that seems to be the best solution, but are there any concrete plans?
<dneighbo> there are a few ideas of where we want to go, but there seems to be a rising division of ideals
<dneighbo> so at some point we either converge or diverge
<jan> so there is nothing more than the IRC logs?
<jan> sorry for being so direct and pressing, but i think geas is really important.
<dneighbo> yes its important
<dneighbo> but right now its better to get squared away with where we are going and what we want than to code
<dneighbo> unfortunately not all the right people are hear right now to have this dicussion (thus is the problem with time zones) :)
<dneighbo> so it will have to wait or be moved to a mailing list
<jan> ok, its just because I saw reinhard, and began to talk about GEAS.
<neilt> were with you jan
<neilt> geas is a great subject to talk about
<reinhard> indeed :)
<neilt> its just not the main focus of the project
<dneighbo> neilt thats only half true
<dneighbo> at one time there was equal focus and for reasons out side of control (not blaming here) one half wasnt able to keep up
<neilt> does geas work with forms
<dneighbo> until the disparity was too great
<neilt> nope
<dneighbo> neilt yes it did until everyone stopped developing on geas
<neilt> dneighbo:  not true
<dneighbo> when andrewm was working on geas full time it worked with forms
<dneighbo> yes it is true
<neilt> geas works fine
<dneighbo> i know i used geas and forms regularly in the beginning
<neilt> for all testing that has been done
<dneighbo> in fact even back when jade was here (over a year ago) it worked
<neilt> right now, for a couple of weeks it is in tranisition
<neilt> every error that has been posted has been corrected
<neilt> but I cant even test forms and geas because the forms part is not working
<dneighbo> forms doesnt work?
<neilt> i was told 4 months ago that a geas driver was in the works
<jan> yep!
<dneighbo> iirc its a bug in orbit-python
<neilt> orbit python work just fine for me
<neilt> i have tested geas a lot using python
<neilt> and all the tests work
<neilt> the only real outstanding issue is that the search IDL is nto so good
<neilt> we have said to the forms team "tell us what you want and we will change it"
Action: jan has looked into geas/dbdriver and tryed to understand it, but spend not much time on it.
<jan> dneighbo: why don`t create some RPC binding for common? By this, it would be a minimal server, and we could add the geas functionality step by step.
<dneighbo> we really need to talk more about it
<dneighbo> waiting say 5 days i dont think will kill us
<dneighbo> hopefully we can discuss over the weekend
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 01:48:28)
fdkf (~gfd@modemcable221.190-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: reinhard will be travelling the next 2 days :(
<fdkf> derek?
<neilt> derek: why dont you sit up a time for IRC discussions
<neilt> dneighbo: you here?
Action: chillywilly has a few ideas about next generation geas
<neilt> reinhard: someplace nice i hope
<neilt> like budapest
<fdkf> like what?
<reinhard> salzburg
<fdkf> chilly?
<neilt> is that good
<neilt> ?
<reinhard> basically ye
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> except when you have to visit 3 customers in 2 days
<chillywilly> I dunno it might have something to do with an implementation of a certain standard and another distributed transaction standard
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> but talk is cheap
<chillywilly> and time is short :(
Action: jan wants to hear chillywillys ideas.
<chillywilly> well there's some notes in gnue/geas/doc/odmg.txt
<chillywilly> then there's ISO XA which the ODMG standard points to and ops out of distributed transactions
jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp319360.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
reinhard (rm@62.47.45.2) left irc: "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there"
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> he always has the best wuit messages
<chillywilly> er, quit
<jbailey> It's too bad he didn't attribute it, though.
<jbailey> I think that one's Ogg Mandino.
<chillywilly> he ususally does
jan (jan@port218.waldbroel.ndh.net) left irc: 
<dneighbo> where oh where did little jan go?
<chillywilly> away from you
<chillywilly> you scared him/her away
<chillywilly> you know what
<chillywilly> life sucks and then you die
<chillywilly> woohoo
<chillywilly> KC #16!
<neilt> life sucks then you pay taxes and die ;)
<dneighbo> yeah no one cheats the irs, cept the mafia :)
<dneighbo> but they die early
fdkf (gfd@modemcable221.190-202-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) left irc: 
<neilt> dneighbo:  you going to set up an IRC chat to resolve geas issues
<neilt> ?
<dneighbo> yes
<dneighbo> i just have to get peoples schedules
<dneighbo> easier to do that via emali
<dneighbo> since reINHARD is gone for a few days
<dneighbo> probably will have to wait until next week
<neilt> cool, thanks
<neilt> why dont you propose a time via email and then we will all have time to plan
<jbailey> Woohoo pop3 over ssl almost running for gnu.org folks. =)
<dneighbo> well i was going to ask what day or times are NO way 
<dneighbo> i.e. i have xxx every thursday or i can do before x or after x any day
<neilt> ok
<neilt> works for me
<dneighbo> then i can find a window of times where people dont have a 'regular' schedule
<dneighbo> then i can set a day time with like 5 days notice
<chillywilly> a meeting?
<chillywilly> when?
<chillywilly> about what?
<neilt> dont know time
<dneighbo> bout scratching my butt
<neilt> its about re-writting geas
<chillywilly> ok
<dneighbo> where the hell are jamest and jcater tonight?
<chillywilly> may I attend?
<neilt> sure, i cant imagine it being provate
<neilt> private
<dneighbo> well we need to work on your creativity then :)
<dneighbo> er imagination
<neilt> whos?
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> I didn't know it needed work
<chillywilly> sorry
<chillywilly> I suck
<dneighbo> neilt 's
<chillywilly> by default
<dneighbo> he said he couldnt imagine it being private
<chillywilly> oh duh
<dneighbo> i say he needs to work on his imagination :)
<neilt> :)
<chillywilly> I need to work on my work ethic
<chillywilly> as of right now I don't have one
<chillywilly> do you know where I can find one?
<chillywilly> anyway, I am off
<chillywilly> tootles
Action: chillywilly is away: dinner
jcater (~jason@24.92.70.39) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> he is here...
<dneighbo> ttfn
dneighbo (dneighbo@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) left irc: "[BX] Mike Tyson says BitchX BITES! Do you HEAR what I'm saying?!"
Action: dsmith is back (gone 01:52:07)
neilt (neilt@dhcp64-134-54-181.chan.dca.wayport.net) left irc: 
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 01:13:23)
<chillywilly> muuuwahahaha
<chillywilly> jcater: I choose you
<chillywilly> brb
<dnWork> hmmm quiet in here
Nick change: dnWork -> derek
<chillywilly> sup dawg
<chillywilly> I;m back
<chillywilly> and better than ever
<chillywilly> (not at typing apparently ;P)
<derek> hmmm from version 0.0.1 to 0.0.2 eh ;)
<chillywilly> ouch
<chillywilly> that hurts
<jcater> 0.0.2pre1 :)
<chillywilly> I am at least beta quality
<chillywilly> you can give me that can't you?
Action: chillywilly probably shouldn't have asked
<jcater> um
<jcater> I'd say your at least GEAS beta quality
Action: jcater ducks
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> hey that more credit than you gave me before
<chillywilly> geas is at 0.0.6
<derek> my mission this weekend is to get gnue debs that work
<chillywilly> cool
<derek> anyone have a 'guide' to making debian packages?
dres (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> yes
<chillywilly> his name is ajmitch ;)
<derek> or know of any other python based software in sid that has debians
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> either aj or jbailey
<chillywilly> oh ye
<jbailey> Hmm?
<chillywilly> jeff is a debian developer
<derek> jbailey wants to autoconf things :)
<derek> im not into that
<jcater> oooo
<jbailey> autoconf is good and right. =)
<jcater> well, aj then
<chillywilly> cause he rox
<derek> i dont want ot do it the C way
<derek> i want to do it the python way :)
<chillywilly> jbailey: you rox0rz!
<jbailey> derek: autoconf is not language dependant. =)
<jcater> nah
<jcater> but it's language implicit :)
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> it's justa  macro language
<chillywilly> m4
<chillywilly> nothing tlang specific about it dawg
<derek> jbailey: no its not language dependent only mindset :)
<jbailey> jcater: IIRC, auto* now has inherent support for python.
<derek> my mind doenst want to deal with autoconf
<derek> and autoconf can not be a requirement
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<derek> chillywilly: not sigh
<jbailey> derek: Yeah..  But alot of that mindset is the user being able to sit down, unpack ./configure; make; make install and have it DTRT.
<derek> i dont want people having to do autoconf to install gnue
<jcater> dude
<derek> i WOULD accept having to have autoconf to make debian packages
<chillywilly> you guys remind me of suits that wish they were hackers ;)
<jcater> that would suxor on non-*nix systems
<derek> i.e. autoconf is only used to make the debians
<jbailey> derek: This is a repeat conversation.  =)  I told you the solution to all of this before.  I just need to get a working copy of GnuE on my system so that I can make sure I don't break anything.
<derek> jbailey: you shouldnt have to do ANYTHING to gnue
<jbailey> (slow responses, cooking dinner)
<jbailey> derek: To run it?
<derek> i.e. if you have to change gnue source files there is a problem in your setup :)
<derek> i.e. to make a debian shouldnt require changing the source code of a program (or so i would think)
<chillywilly> ???
<chillywilly> why would you do that?
<jbailey> derek: It depends on if any locations are hardcoded.  Some of Debian's filesystem rules are a little twisted.
<derek> chillywilly: maybe im nuts but i have written commericial and in house software for years and never changed source to do an install
<derek> jbailey: ok if its file system things
<chillywilly> where do you have to change thje source to install?
<chillywilly> you are implying that auto* makes you do this?
<derek> and they are 'hardcoded' (outside conf files) then jcater and jamest have to sit the corner to be flogged
<derek> chillywilly: im not implying it jbailey was :)
<chillywilly> ./configure --preifx=/install/my/friggin/gnue/
<chillywilly> er, --prefix
<derek> I just need to get a working copy of GnuE on my system so that I can make sure I don't break anything.
<derek> <derek> jbailey: you shouldnt have to do ANYTHING to gnue
<derek> and yes its a repeat
<derek> basically because of some underlying things
<derek> i want working debs in the pool by sunday night
<jbailey> Ah nice.
<jbailey> Anyone willing to actually help me then? =)
<derek> so sunday morning i can quiet some very IMPORTANT critics
<derek> i will be on during the weekend
<chillywilly> who?
<jbailey> Everytime I've asked for assistance getting gnue running, the channel goes silent very quickly. =)
<chillywilly> hey now
<chillywilly> ask away
<jcater> really?
<chillywilly> jhlkjhlkjhsdlkfjhsdlkjfg
<chillywilly> qweb09tqw rg r;jk2bef;kjbh
<derek> i do have to leave tonight, i have a date with a really hot chick
<jcater> we get complemented all the time on our helpfulness
<chillywilly>  hjkSGodviqu tpr3g'v
<derek> but i should be around tomorrow and tomorrow night
<derek> BTW: we have debians in sid right now
<chillywilly> bah, call them debs
<derek> jbailey: do you know how to get the source that made those debs?
<chillywilly> you sound like a putz calling them debians
<chillywilly> ;P
<derek> i.e. if apt-get source gnue-forms works and gets the files necessary to actually create the .deb file
<derek> we are 90% done
<chillywilly> where can I get some redhat package managements?
<derek> all we have to do is find out WHAT is breaking when you apt-get install gnue-forms for example and fix that
<chillywilly> ;D
<chillywilly> hrrrm
<derek> my big problem is i only have a headless debian box right now
<chillywilly> hold up
<derek> i hope to get my DEC Multia running debian this weekend (good articles on linuxjournal i think)
<derek> and then i can make debs for the alpha for gnue :)
Action: derek is holding up and darn is up heavy
<chillywilly> ?
<chillywilly> dude
<chillywilly> danielb@obfuscation:~$ sudo apt-get install gnue-forms
<chillywilly> Reading Package Lists... Done
<chillywilly> Building Dependency Tree... Done
<chillywilly> Sorry, gnue-forms is already the newest version.
<chillywilly> 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 160  not upgraded.
<jbailey> (Scrolling back)
<chillywilly> looks like it installs for me home billy
<derek> it may INSTALL
<derek> does it WORK
Action: chillywilly should probablt upgrade
<jbailey> I'm trying the install right now.
<chillywilly> hrrrm
<chillywilly> lemme see
<derek> we have gotten NUMEROUS reports that it doesnt 'work'
<chillywilly> oh dude
<chillywilly> that was a libpng issue before
<chillywilly> iirc
<chillywilly> which is fixed
<derek> however we DID have people file bugs in debian
<derek> as of this AM a critical critic did an apt-get and the packages did not work
<derek> or so im told
<jcater> sigh
<jbailey> derek: There are no bugs to that effect.
<jcater> what ***really*** sucks
<jbailey> (In the BTS)
<jcater> if gnue-common is in woody
<jcater> s/if/is
<jcater> but nothing else
<jbailey> mmm
<jbailey> Veggie burger and potatoe chips. 
<jcater> ok
<chillywilly> it complains about me npot having a gnue.conf other than that it runs
<jcater> that sucks too
<derek> Today, in an effort to get a better
<derek> handle on this situation, I attempted to install GNUe Debian packages.  I
<derek> found:
<derek> gnue-common - The shared library for many items of the GNU Enterprise
<derek>               Framework
<derek> gnue-designer - A Rapid Application Development tool for GNU Enterprise.
<derek> gnue-forms - An XML-based forms painter
<jbailey> Your reason for not being in woody so far is that you're not building on all the arch's.
<derek> Which all looked promising, but the Debian packages appear to be
<derek> malfunctioning and I couldn't get it working in the 15 minutes I had to
<jbailey> That should be trivial to fix.
<derek> spend on it.
<chillywilly> it is fixed in sid
<chillywilly> with a fixed libpng
<chillywilly> IIRC
<derek> chillywilly: that complaint was from this morning
<chillywilly> hrrrm
<chillywilly> where?
<derek> i.e. Today in that paste equals today in Boston, MA
<jcater> dude
<chillywilly> lemme make a gnue.conf file then
<jcater> we need better descriptions in there
<chillywilly> agreed
<chillywilly> those descriptions blow goats
<derek> jcater maurizo looks like he ripped the first sentence from freshmeat
<derek> i must go now be back soon
<chillywilly> bye
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> I wonder why we don't built on multi-platforms
<jcater> could it be a dependency that doesn't build that's keeping us back?
<jbailey> I've just confirmed that I'm permitted to NMY.
<jcater> well, that makes no sense
<jbailey> NMU rather.
<jcater> as all their dependencies are in woody
<jcater> :(
<chillywilly> we just need a debian guy to give us some lovin'
<chillywilly> then our packages will rock
<chillywilly> I volunteer jbailey
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> jbailey: I choose you!
<derek> what is NMU?
<chillywilly> new maintainer upload
<jbailey> Non-maintainer upload.
<chillywilly> woops
<chillywilly> yea that too ;)
<jbailey> It means that the maintainer isn't answering fast enough.
<derek> sweet
<derek> if we can fix whats wrong great
<derek> can you tell us waht is preventing us from compiling on other architectures?
<derek> as i know jamest uses on sun
<jbailey> Not yet, but soon.
<jbailey> That whole dinnner thing...
<derek> ok
<derek> well ive got date, be back in a few hours
<chillywilly> I thought you were  married?
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> surely he doesn't mean a date w/his wife
<jcater> as that ain't natural
<jbailey> Me?  not for another 16 days.
<chillywilly> jcater: perhaps you need a different woman then
<chillywilly> jbailey: nah, I meant da masta
Action: chillywilly should do something useful now
<chillywilly> bah
<jbailey> Ah.
<jbailey> Getting marries will be nice.  That will mean I don't have to plan the wedding anymore.
<chillywilly> hehe
Action: chillywilly is getting married june 7th 2003
<jcater> cool
<jbailey> Ah, hadn't realized you had picked a date.
<chillywilly> yup
<jcater> then we still have a year to work on you
<chillywilly> finally
<chillywilly> heheh
<jbailey> Did you tell *her* yet?
<chillywilly> well, yea she knows
<jcater>  /msg jbailey that's his mistress he's talking about
<chillywilly> yea, I wish...anyway
<chillywilly> the mistress of the sea
<jbailey> jcater: Hmm.. I"ve never had one of those.  I wonder if I get one as a present at my stag...
<jbailey> Thinking of which, I should probably find out when that is. =)
<jcater> rofl
<chillywilly> my buddy didn't even have one of those because his "fiance" wouldn't let him
<jbailey> gah, boot to the head to the finacee.
<chillywilly> so we went out and got plastered the night before the4 wedding
<chillywilly> (not a thing I recommend)
<jcater> sigh
<jbailey> If you can't trust the person you're marrying not to screw around on you on one particular day, you can't trust them anytime.
<jcater> I had an interesting wedding
<chillywilly> jbailey: true dat
<jcater> the best man and I (in full Tuxedos) had to break into my future mother-in-law's house
<jbailey> So I've got gnue-forms installed, now what?
<jbailey> (Incidentally, the only install problem I experiences was a conflict with pyxml - That's a broken python dependancy, not a gnue problem)
<jcater> well
<jcater> does that install the demos/samples?
<jbailey> no
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> where in the hell is crazymike at?
<chillywilly> I can't believe he'snot sitting behind his computer
<jbailey> (second burger on the frying pan, possibly more delays)
<jcater> do you have a gnue cvs somewhere?
<jcater> we need to get you to test the intro.gfd file
<jbailey> I think I nuked it, lemme check.
<jcater> if that works, you are good to go
<jbailey> it's still here.
<chillywilly> whatcha dot hat fer?
<jbailey> Running cvs update.
<jbailey> chillywilly: 'cause it didn't do anything. =)
<jbailey> I have something like 2 dozen projects that I'm tracking right now. =)
<jbailey> Hmm..  You guys appear to have done alot of work since my last cvs update. =)
<jbailey> found intro.gfd.  What do I do with it?
rdean (~rdean@chcgil2-ar2-053-033.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
chillywilly_ (~danielb@d59.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jbailey> Ah, joy.  gnue-forms failed to compile on *every* arch.
chillywilly (danielb@d108.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Killed (NickServ (Ghost: chillywilly_!~danielb@d59.as5.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net))
<chillywilly_> 2 chillywilly's are better than 1
<jbailey> That's almost certainly a build-deps problem.
<chillywilly_> fucking dialup
Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<jbailey> Ah, I see.
<jbailey> I think that he didn't reazlie that Depends aren't necessarily filled for build-deps.
Action: jbailey nudges jcater...
<jbailey> Anyone else here?
<jbailey> =)
<chillywilly> yes?
<jbailey> Yes do I do with the intro.gfd?
<jbailey> s/Yes/What/
<jbailey> =)
<chillywilly> gfclient intro.gfd
<jbailey> I'm tired. =)
<chillywilly> you so somethign like that, IIRC
<chillywilly> s/so/do
<chillywilly> but i am not forms lackey
<chillywilly> ;)
dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
dres (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> whaddup dres
<jbailey> True, but this is a reasonable example of how when I'm trying to get this working, somehow to channel always seems to go silent. =)
<jbailey> Hmm.
<jbailey> gnue.conf
<chillywilly> copy the sample one
<chillywilly> well I'll try to do my best
<jbailey> There doesn't appears to be a gnue.conf in the cvs checkout.
<jbailey> chillywilly: Thanks.  I'd love to get this done for you guys.
<chillywilly> there's a gnue.conf.sample or something
Action: chillywilly looms
<chillywilly> er, looks
<jbailey> ROFL
<jbailey> common/etc/sample.gnue.conf
<chillywilly> there ya go
<chillywilly> cp sample.gnue.conf gnue.conf
<jbailey> Is that a bug in gnue-common then?  Should it install that? 
<chillywilly> it should istall the sample
<jbailey> Hmmm.
<chillywilly> er, install
<jbailey> It didn't mention that it was searching for it in /etc
<jbailey> What's the python equivalent to --sysconfdir?
<chillywilly> complain to jcater ;P
<chillywilly> beats me
Action: jbailey nudges jcater harder...
Action: chillywilly is not yet a python weenie
<chillywilly> er, developer
<chillywilly> ;D
<jbailey> Hrrmmm.
<jbailey> I've copied the sample gnue.conf to ~/.gnue/ and it still claims it can't find it.
<chillywilly> well I have never tried that
<jbailey> Where do you keep yours?
<chillywilly> I usually put it in /etc/gnue/
<jbailey> Oh hey, the sample.gnue.conf is there...
<chillywilly> tey do mysteriously disappear don;t they?
<chillywilly> bastards
<chillywilly> jcater: YOU SUCK!!!
<chillywilly> ;P
<jbailey> Now I got a traceback.
<chillywilly> jbailey: now you're catching on ;)
<chillywilly> weeee
<chillywilly> paste it once
<jbailey> jbailey@outpost:~/debian/gnue-forms-0.1.0/debian$ gfclient intro.gfd 
<jbailey> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<jbailey> DB000:   File "/usr/bin/gfclient", line 42, in ?
<jbailey> DB000:     GFClient().run()
<jbailey> DB000:   File "./debian/gnue-forms/usr/lib/python2.1/gnue/forms/GFClient.py", line 118, in run
<jbailey> DB000:   File "./debian/gnue-forms/usr/lib/python2.1/gnue/forms/GFClient.py", line 145, in runForm
<jbailey> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/urllib.py", line 71, in urlopen
<jbailey> DB000:     return _urlopener.open(url)
<jbailey> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/urllib.py", line 176, in open
<jbailey> DB000:     return getattr(self, name)(url)
<jbailey> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/urllib.py", line 400, in open_file
<jbailey> DB000:     return self.open_local_file(url)
<jbailey> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/urllib.py", line 413, in open_local_file
<jbailey> DB000:     return addinfourl(open(url2pathname(file), 'rb'),
<jbailey> DB000: IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'intro.gfd'
<jbailey> Gah, my fault.
<chillywilly> doh!
<jbailey> Although it should really produce a better error. =)
<chillywilly> you gotta give it a valid file dude
<jbailey> I was in the wrong directory. =)
rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-053-033.chcgil2.dsl.gtei.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<chillywilly> that's just the way our funky debug system is
<chillywilly> don;t blame me
<chillywilly> I didn't write it ;P
<jbailey> Lovely.
<chillywilly> jcater: I blame you!
<jbailey> Different error.
<jbailey> DB000: IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: './debian/gnue-forms/usr/shared/images/gnue-splash.png'
<chillywilly> woohoo
<chillywilly> doh!!!
<jbailey> I can see why it was referred to as "not working" =)
Action: chillywilly really wishes there was a REAL forms expert here
Action: jbailey nudges jcater with a small stick...
Action: chillywilly pushes jcater off the cliff
<jbailey> I think the body's cold.
<chillywilly> yea, definitely
<chillywilly> or just full of donuts
<jbailey> *sigh*
<jbailey> I want a deep fryer so I can make donuts.
<jbailey> Noone around here seems to make Vegan donuts.
<chillywilly> what do you fry them in?
<jbailey> IIRC, they have to be completely covered in oil...
<chillywilly> some kinda vegatable oil?
<jbailey> Yeah.
<jbailey> The *one* place in town that doesn't use eggs in their batter, uses lard to fry them in.
<chillywilly> mmmm
<chillywilly> lard
<jbailey> *sigh*
<chillywilly> sorry
<jbailey> =)
<jbailey> Thinking of which.
Action: jbailey goes to grab his potatoe chips.
<chillywilly> you know yuou have really long spindley eyes ;)
<jbailey> All the better to look at you with, my precious.
<chillywilly> o...
<chillywilly> k...
<jbailey> ;)
<chillywilly> forms dudes!!!!
<chillywilly> wake up!!!!
Action: chillywilly does the mexican hat dance on jcater
<chillywilly> jbailey: you know where we can find a reliable forms dude?
<chillywilly> ours seems to be broken
<jbailey> I think you pushed him off the cliff.
<chillywilly> woops
<jbailey> He was reliably not answering. =)
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> damn him
<chillywilly> damn him all to hell
<jbailey> It's funny, though.  The three or four times I've wanted to get this running, this is what's happened. =)
jcater (jason@24.92.70.39) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<chillywilly> doh!
<jbailey> The channel starts off full, and slowly gets down to me.  Sometimes another person who doesn't work on "that piece" =)
<chillywilly> maybe he'll be back on in a minute here
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> it's the jbailey conspiracy
<chillywilly> dude
<chillywilly> all you need to do is get masta here
<chillywilly> and tie him to his chair
<chillywilly> he'll hook you up
<jbailey> "Hooked up" and "the Chair" sounds a little much like execution for my liking..
<chillywilly> ;P
<dres> hello chillywilly
<chillywilly> sup dawg
<chillywilly> what's the dilly yo
Action: dres has no clue what was just said. ;)
<chillywilly> that's ebonics 
<chillywilly> menas "yo, what's the deal"
<chillywilly> (how's it going)
<jbailey> *sigh
<jbailey> sleep time.
<jbailey> Catch this another day, I guess, but it'll probably have to be after my wedding.
jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp319360.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting"
alexey (alex@strel.techkran.vladimir.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
fitzix (~fitzix@168.129.252.64.snet.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
dtm (dtm@ip66.promontory.sfo.interquest.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<fitzix> hello
dtm (dtm@ip66.promontory.sfo.interquest.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<fitzix> hello
<derek> hi fitzix
<fitzix> hey derek - how are ya?
<fitzix> derek: been busy clearing my plate so that I can devote myself to the plans... just getting finished with some prior obligations
<fitzix> have you seen this bnetd debacle?
<fitzix> I'm talking with sbp on this on #dotgnu
<fitzix> http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/02/21/1344204&mode=thread
<fitzix> if you need a reference point
--- Fri Feb 22 2002