jcater (jason@24.92.70.39) left irc: "Client Exiting" I'm gonna get gnuef running on an ipaq under Familiar d Familiar kicks ass chillywilly_ (~danielb@d165.as8.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly_: high Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-206.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. a fair description of cw. chillywilly (danielb@d22.as13.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) huh. heh hee! Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly chillywilly+++ mad respect to the chill-o-rama elllo (@_# Action: chillywilly was crashed out before what's up fewl oh? and you've uncrashed? i thought i felt the ground rumble what are you doing still up? things. alternately, stuff. hmm searching for tv shows to download i.e. steal pondering working on bidness shiznit. you have a tuner card? well my 8500 has an AV chipset which i dont use i've got no external tv feed so i'm looking for online rips chillywilly: and what are you up to, sir notes :P did you read my whebbe sight? it's a rough rough draft but hey people seem to really dig it :) ummm, yes i hope you have some idea of how difficult that was for me to create :) at least give me that sympathy!! talk about squeezing blood from a turnip and this is about technical material too, which is harder for me to abstract coz i'm into guts i want to envision freaking bits and bytes flying by like on the movie Hackers as I get a realtime 3d rendering of the face of the Gibson that's my idea of teleconferencing Action: chillywilly gives dtm mad props AJSJHjkhaslk i have a marketing buddy at Sun who proofread it last night and he said the same without me saying so, he goes "wait a minute,... this musta been REALLY FREAKING HARD for you to have written!" luckily most of the tech specs were already written but geez nothing about how it benefits real life like how it saves money,heh! are you asking for help dtm? just ask damnit! ;P i'm babbling, sir no beating about the bush i'm a professional babbler, i'll have you know tehe that's all i wouldn't make demands of the mighty chillywilly Action: chillywilly pounce hugs dtm YAAAY @#!))1- mighty? are you on crack? hmm cracks? i might have a crack or two Action: dtm feels around Action: dtm checks his chair and desk the floor feels secure thoguh no quakes? dude! when will this chapter ever end! i dont know but at least you're productive so what's your hunny'z name again? i keep forgetting everybody's names flmi flim caroline chillywilly: how's caroline and scotty good :) sup nickr no one sleeps around here eh? chillywilly: i 'spect that they're proud of you, having secured gainful employment chillywilly: coz that's been a tough spot chillywilly: scotty prolly says "hey i wanna be just like you dad" #gnuenterprise - The channels that never sleeps! umm, I dunno dtm well i actually see #gnuenterprise sleeping quite a bit when i'm still up! ya jackasses lol i have _no_ idea what else you could possibly be doing, but y'all best stop it RIGHT NOW hahahahah Action: chillywilly troutslaps all who slumber lol 'zackly HEHEH just walk into the bunk room, with em all lined up in a row, with a giant overhead troutslapper appliance, and get em all in one good stroke down the line. I'm going to bed in a bit the troutslapper 2002(tm) sleeping IS for wusses though nickr: NEVER! nickr: you wuss you know it I got to play with an iPaq today. dude, where the heck is the damn O(1) scheduler patch! nickr: cool THE ULTRAMEGA TROUTSLAP2000!!! 220V, 16HORSEPOWER OF __RAW__ __DEFIANT__ __IRREVERANT__ IRC DISCIPLINARY POWER yea flashed Familiar onto it its nice that with vendor support you can completely remove wince :) Action: dtm straps the TS2000 powerpack on his back, pulls the ripcord, and fires it up ***BRRRRROOOOWWWRRRR*** http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-01-12-003-20-NW-KN now I can have preemption and O(1) scheduling dawg Action: dtm leans backward as he staggers forth, accidentally lunging mass troutslappage toward chillywilly, then swerving off into the nether-regions of #gnuenterprise AAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! *****BRAAAAAAAAPPPP****** *RAAAAAWWRR* that thing'll take your arm off you are having too much fun with the souns effects Action: dtm shrieks and crashes into something far away er, sound even I want to buy an ipaq familiar is based on debian mmm. Action: dtm waddles back and forth on his back, waving the now-deflated TS2000 overhead like a freshly slimed Ghostbuster nickr: what is Familiar? http://familiar.handhelds.org/ I think. the screenshots don't actually do the interface justice because by default you get ion which is perfect for palmtops ion is a wm right? yea the handwriting recognition is great cool the antialiased fonts are really nice too you can have tiny tiny text that is completely readable the screen shot with 'fear my fontsize', there is a font size one smaller than that anywho. Its really cool I'm gonna get one. But first I have to sleep night. nickr: later chillywilly: we sleepless nightcreatures shall prey upon nickr's weakness whilst he slumbereth ok'eth? yes'eth Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. hi Yurik chillywilly: hi how gnue is going? it's going my friend :) :) Action: Yurik is tired w/ writing Makefiles... er, Jamfiles... dislike doing such kinda things automake! automake requires GNU... for example, is it available standalone on Win32 (w/ autoconf, etc.)? Jam/MR seems to be a good alternative. But still requires to do some boring job :-) you could install cygwin Action: chillywilly can say that because others are sleeping and they will not flog him ;) I know, but I dislike installing cygwin only for autoconf/automake also my opinion that tools, compilers and soon should be native :-) s/opinion/opinion is/ s/soon/so on/ umm... still sleepy no one expects the GNU inquisition! ;P :-) got some coffee and coffee-chocolade :) this choco really rocks, tastes as coffee :-) hehe :) Yurik: it is really reasonable to install cygwin on a host or two even if just for autoconf. but if you have to do it in masses, perhaps you can statically compile it? i dont know if that's possible on cygwin. dtm: that is why I use native tools on each platform dtm: for example, Jam/MR natively compiles on Unices, VMS, Mac, etc. Yurik: using common Makefiles? same Makefiles on each platform? dtm: it even uses one Makefile to be compiled on each platform (I just need to uncomment several lines for particular platform) Action: Yurik got the next victory in writing Jamfile and Jamrules dtm: I choose you! chillywilly: oh boy! chillywilly: what for?! hehe, wouldn't you like to know Yurik: what's this Jam stuff all about? chillywilly: ohhhhh maybe dtm: Jam/MR == Jam / make(1) Redux http://public.perforce.com/jam/jam.html good night gentlemen! i now join the weak, in need of recuperation!%)# Action: dtm is away: sleep Action: Yurik is away for 15 mins chillywilly (danielb@d165.as8.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: "ZZZzzzzZZZZzzzzz" Action: Yurik is back reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.2) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: hi hi Yurik chillywilly (~danielb@d165.as8.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly: re ello Action: chillywilly can't sleep Action: Yurik too. because it is 2:43 PM :-) Sat Mar 2 06:39:05 CST 2002 Action: chillywilly goes off to get some coffeee Sat Mar 2 14:45:33 EET 2002 dcc coffee to you? nah, there's some upstairs ;) Action: chillywilly trots off Action: chillywilly is back Action: Yurik is hacking on framerd to support it Action: Yurik is out to smoke framerd? wassat? www.framerd.org FramerD, a database designed for generating, managing, and using very large pointer-intensive data sets. ok Action: Yurik is embedding it oooh, distributed object database funky GPL'd too ;) nice :) Action: chillywilly troutslaps reinhard I like it loook at my notes! chillywilly: i did yay! wendesday I just added soem more er, some what did you think of the ODL interfaces? that's from the spec is it implementable ;)? I am just getting to the schema stuff and the ODL Scema Repository and you know the tool that neilt wants to build we should use OIF to prime the pump so to speak Action: chillywilly looks at the diagram to get the name of the 'part' i found the odmg standard defines so to speak a "way of thinking" rather than a specific syntax at least that's what i read between the lines they have an Object Model could be i read wrong :) and a Meta Object model for schema stuff sure they think on objects s/on/in ;) OMG CORBA also has a way of thinking ;) wouldn't you say? ah the batch shema compiler schema that should use the ODL interfaces in the ODLMetaObjects module imho reinhard: did you look at the relationships? yes to connect your objects in its 'graph' i think i understood the concept of does it make sense? did you liek it? bags, lists etc and the differences I think they keep it pretty simple however i'm not sure if all of that is applicable to business applications in fact I think original gcd syntax was a lot hairier for example i think the only sort of collection that is useful for business apps is the list reinhard: the dictionary would not be useful? (hashtable) array certainly would be lekma_afk (~kiki@node1142c.a2000.nl) joined #gnuenterprise. how can you say what data structures are useful without a design of some system/package? hi everybody ello Nick change: lekma_afk -> lekma anybody to help me with geas compile problem? sure reinhard and I will try our best ;) i got this message when trying to compile geas: usr/lib/libpython2.1.so: undefined reference to 'openpty' reinhard: I think the ODL Schema Repository and the batch schema compiler are exactly ehat the meta objects module covers (as far ss the API goes) usr/lib/libpython2.1.so: undefined reference to 'forkpty' lekma: hmmmm are you missing some python package? and then error and exit i don't think so i build it from source ah maybe some configure option i missed any idea?? maybe not one that jumps out at me ;) btw i wasn't available for the geas meeting yesterday is there any report made?? not yet AFAIK it will be up *shortly* ;) you can also just browse the logs yourself there's a link off te home page lekma: you need libpty.so ;) s/te/the where do i find this? what kinda system do you have? system/distro linux rh 7.2 try rpmfind then ;) i'll try it nu you could start by seraching through your packages to see if any of them contain libpty i'll try it now Action: chillywilly does not remember rpm symtax though Action: chillywilly is a debian freak Action: lekma is testing on rh cause he only has this at hand that's fine we need people that run redhat systems to test this stuff :) most if us use debian s/if/of lekma: sprry it should be libutil.so er, sorry ok ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-1-ip40.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. i'll look for this one hi ToyMan hey chilly logging in some weekend hours @ work :( :( work sucks actually, I love what I do.. heheh yea, but you don;t want to do it 24/7 do you ;) just not *every* aspect of it yeah all work and no play makes ToyMan something something go crazy! don't mind f I do! ajmbsfjkbhsge0p fh`2[o3ur gh [] well... I did just get back from almost 2 weeks on St. John... a tad warmer than Wis. that was a message form your Simpsons episode broadcasting system heh it was only a test beeeeeep! ok st. john is where? U.S. Virgin Isl. 30 miles east of Puerto Rico aaaah a 'tad' eh ;)? paradise we have snow! this is the driest winter on record in NY and we are supposed to geta shit load more this afternoon :((( Action: chillywilly gets to shovel!!!! wooooo! the one thing I don't like about my move to NY... not enough snow wimpy winters here I see said the blind man Action: ToyMan likes snow well then you can come over and shovel it for me :P right? :D so does anyone have gnue up and running in a day to day *working* enviro? heh, no shoveling for me jcater does thank you anyway :P jamest did/does jcater runs his call center with it iir c I was disappointed that they didn't make it to NYC Linux show ah they had a booth, they had computers in the booth no people though :/ and no gnue yea, I shoul've hitch hiked :P heh, imagine picking up a hitchhiker w/ a clue... I'm going to make the next show no matter where it is Action: chillywilly should have some money then just the NYC venues fro me wimp so what do you do for $$$ in cheeseland? in that case I would have to wait until it was in chicago heh, no time right now I inspect fr alarm system because I will not sell out to the man Action: chillywilly has a computer engineering degree from MSOE http://www.msoe.edu systems doh shit, waste of a degree... the job market sucks nope, going to start my own business doing what? GNUe consulting ;) but first we have some code to write :) sounds good. I used to have a biz installing accounting/biz systems and I have some *things* to take care of life is still good my friend gnue still looks massively more intelligent than anything I got to work with if I find a batter job where I don't have to compromise my ethics then I'll take it back in the old days cool hmmm. Action: ToyMan wishes his company were a bit bigger Action: chillywilly should geta unix admin job I've met a lot of smart people on irc that I would like to hire... yea? me too ;) :o lol well, we're moving to almost *all* internet based on our biz ebidness so eventually I'll need people to fill the infrastructure sorry I tend to degrade into ebonics ;) but not yet jsut because I think it sounds funny ebindness ? bid [07:35:18] ebidness yes, bid :) Action: ToyMan scratches his head you're not fuluent in ebonics? :P er, fluent never heard of it you know what I need voice recognition so I cna be lazy and not have to type ;) ToyMan: ummm, it's just ghetto slang ahh they actually tried to make it int a language that's what's funny about ti s/ti/it s/int/into oh yeah... i remember reading about that *sigh* typing sucks! well, all languages have to start somewhere esp. in the morning before your fingers are awake yea, but improper english should not be classified as a language it's rediculous I wish I could see a working gnue ystem heh, the british said that about the US ... you never ran any of the example forms? well... the british are uptight ;) Action: chillywilly looks around not yet... not enough time and I've been reworking my whole network noe .uks here ;P .uas here :-) er, no you have chillywilly's typing disease too? :) Ukraine... that's a Brit colony, yes? ;) oh, my bad ToyMan: heh, never have been Brit colony I thought you were joking around and meant to type .usa, but that wouldn't make any sense no!!!!! really??? shit, you can never trust those US history books... Action: chillywilly wouldn't know Action: ToyMan gets more coffee Action: chillywilly sips his ugh it's kinda cold now blech so are there any Zope fanatics in the Gnue crew? hmmm I don't think so I'm doing a large ecommerce site in zope jcater may be using it though and I want to integrate it with my eventual gnue install ToyMan: don't know about Gnue, but I'm kinda Zope developer :-) well we need a zopedb driver for forms ;) ToyMan: but not professional in it ahh. Yurik, you check out the plone/cmf thing yet? there was a story about the zopedb on our site http://www.designsciencetoys.org/cmf take a look at that ToyMan: I don't used plone yet. I use CMF, but don't know it ALL that's the 'input' or contributors side to our site the .com will be the ecommerce side still rough but some pretty nice functionality going you really have to log in to see what it does Action: Yurik is still searching CMF site maintainer it's all about content management 4th one form the top ToyMan http://www.gnuenterprise.org huh? we just need support for that and GNUe could interface with Zope afaict the zopedb article posted by derek you mean adding an interface for ZOBD? yea to gnue uhuh wouldn't that work? hmm. zope can work with any db on the backend zobd is just the default maybe not that's for non-zope python apps my bad a set of sql queries might actually do the job hmmm, maybe what does zipe all consist of anyway? er, zope it would just have to pick up invoices and plunk them down into gnue yea, introspection of the db schema ansd them load the data in whew! Zope is a big animal designer could be written to inspect zope stuff then generate a form for you (like ti does with the other dbs) s/ti/it yeah, some gnue side data validation I think designer is pretty modular I don't know the structure of gnue good enough to figure the best way to hook in Action: chillywilly has only contributed some GEAS stuff ToyMan: do you know python ;) some I do math and geometry calcs in it well, they shoudl be documenting common for us soon so we can redo geas in python :P i'm working with some people to dev. math curric using python cool is there a gnue schema for dummies? hmmmm well if you are going 2-tier (which I would recommend for now as the app server is lacking) there's the forms techical reference and the forms user's guide er, technical but what about a schema that shows how all these parts fit together meta schema and designer will inspect your db tables for you and you can build a form based on them an architecture diagram? yes there's one somewhere on the web site I think but I dunno where you want to big pciture eh? and is it up to date? Action: chillywilly also thinks this way ;) Action: ToyMan has noticed gnue is a bit of a moving target yep :) ah found it give me a sec just found it too, in screenshots http://www.gnuenterprise.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-My_eGallery&file=index&do=showgall&gid=5 eh, those are odl though the new geas diagram neilt just made yeah, most of the screens are 1 yr+ package and forms architecture should be somewhat relevant this is geas-ng ttp://www.gnuenterprise.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=31 basically we have a an indepent UI descriptions which is rendered by the forms client er, platform independent (xml) brb, nature calls Action: chillywilly will just go on you can read when you get back we have a reports engine a common lib that has db absatraction (allows forms to work in 2-tier mode), an rpc abstraction (in development), and other shared code then there's the application server which will/does alow for logic to be on the remote server and lets you deal with objects and no worries about databases (n-tier)...there's a forms driver in the works for that (however, we are also working on a new version that will be implemented in python and hopefully conform to the ODMG standard) basically these are all tools to build applications to actaully get an applicaiton going you would have forms deifinitions (the UI), gcd files (you objects deifnitions), and methods (scripts that execute the object methods/business rules), grd files (report definition files), etc. that would make up a 'package' we hope to build some nice generic ones that can be customized to fit other industries, etc. whew ok, I think I am done ;) Action: chillywilly will wait for questions btw, the GNUeModuleGuide is also a nice doc there's plenty of good GNUe docs at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/ Action: ToyMan reads this is all not nailed down in stone ;), but that's my overall impression of our 'architecture' we still have intergation issues to work out, but that's sorta the next step as we go to design the new geas in python and use our 'common' lib er, integratin so *very* simply put it's... a db on the backend geas in the middle to execute biz logic form server for the input side on mult. platforms report server on the output side (mult. platforms) ? yep :) gcd scripts are in python? object defnition files er, definition I want to switch the syntax to ODMG ODL Object Description Language right now is is very ODL-like hmm. not familiar with that.. but not exactly ODMG is Object Data Management Group (object persistence) superset of OMG ok so ODL is like IDL but with some add object semantics you do know what IDL is? Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-206.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Remote closed the connection interface descriptions language used in CORBA (remote object protocol) I've heard about it and looked at it... never used it well geas is tied to corba which we want to rectify ;) by using gnurpc (our rpc absatraction) why not corba? too much overhead? we want to give people choice they can use mor ethan just corba xml-rpc, soap, etc. ahh ic, an interface to all of them yep an 'absatraction' er abstraction more ebonics... Action: chillywilly doesn't know how the extra 'a' keeps getting in there ;) on, just crummy typing if you look at that new geas arch. diagram you can see a peice called the remote protocol handler we could even do http even irc ;) that would be fun have the app server connect to irc and you can give it commands and play with it :) i'm looking, but ic no rpc on the diagram.. remote protocl adapter(s) er, protocol i'm lookin at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=27 is that the one you mean? no oh this one http://www.gnuenterprise.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-My_eGallery&file=index&do=showpic&pid=31 pid 31 yes uhuh see it now good :) so I hope I have edumacated you dawg what is the object repository? :P heh, getting there.. well ont he mailing list neilt deifned these want me to forward it? no, ican do a search there is a web interface for mail lists, yes? if not forward plez well we should be archives somewhere er, archived it's a gnu.org list ;) foudn it er, found http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/gnue-dev/ :) great, thanx here's the one you want http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/gnue-dev/2002-February/000020.html excellent man, I love this wm.. fluxbox you ever try it? nope Action: chillywilly uses Gnome flux is very lightweight and fast.. and *everything* can run in a tabbed window I've got 8 instances of eterm in one window cool 5 or 6 spredsheet in another and so on or I group things by subject so a letter, spreadsheet, and cad file from one designer all fit in the same window you're using freebsd? yup do you like it better than GNU/Linux? yup heh why? 1. more stable 2. better use of boxen resources this debian unstable bix has been pretty stable er, box ;) 3. ports kills *any* other package mngmnt system I dunno apt is nice well, I ran debian for 2 years apt is nice, but ports is nicer don't you have to compile it all? *much* more intell dealing with depends no, you can pull binaries or compile, your choice but I rarely find compiling to be that much of a hassle and that way pulling in a new program will *never* break your system hehe you ever compile glibc? or Gnome heh or X or mozilla you don't want to compile those ;P yeah, that's an overnighter on my box well, they just run in the bg and don't really slow things that much what do tyou have in that machine? freebsd 4.5 hardware-wise I know what OS you are running stuq@pythagoras stuq]$ uname -a [08:27:04] -ToyMan- VERSION xchat 1.8.7 FreeBSD 4.5-RC [i386] FreeBSD pythagoras 4.5-RC FreeBSD 4.5-RC #0: Tue Jan 15 18:46:30 EST 2002 ;) oh 2 400 PIII (smp) 512 MB scsii raid array Action: chillywilly needs to compile a new kernel with the preemption patch and the O(1) scheduler heh that's a nice machine yeah, it's a penguin computer box, they do good work except it comes with RH as the default OS... this is just a laptop with PIII 450 w/160MB RAM nice.. Action: ToyMan is getting a laptop next Tues. it's not too shabby bsd is just easier to admin linux is just really the kernel but with bsd, the whole system is designed as a piece so all the utils, file locations, and the arch. as a whole is more predictable and more carefully thought out with linux the system is a GNU system ;) a bit more republican vs. the democrat linux?? well, the licence thing... i've thought a lot about that and am still not sure what side i'm on or if I want to even choose sides the bottom line for me is what creates successful communities why do you think GNU/Linux is so much more popular though? and both licenses seem to work on that count do you see the FSF's position though? well, BSD was on the rise when ATT did the legal begal on them and all the developers ran away and then Linus came up with Linux yes, and I'm as much for cutting those overgrown babies taht run the big corps down to size as much as the next guy just not sure the GPL is the *only* way to achieve that I don't think that's the purpose lekma (kiki@node1142c.a2000.nl) left irc: I think reality is more closely found in the aggregate behavior of a group I think the purpose is to provide freedom and to protect that freedom yes, and that's done in reality by fostering community what good is it if you get it taken away arbitrarily? I don't think it's a legal ques. or a business one I think it's a human behavior questino question and the results can be seen by the strength and directions a community takes ah well this could go on forever :P both the bsd and gpl license communities are going in good directions except when you ahve BSDers hanging out on your LUG list talking crap all the time ;) sheesh, some ppl need to find something else to do with their time ;) Action: chillywilly is talking from experience one sec, phone well, there are loosers in every crowd... I see both sides...I just happen to agree with one ;) just seems that GNU drew the line at a different point BSDers say hey you can use our code GNU is like you can use only if give your changes back as we did but, in reality, most BSD'rs give back the code too then again I'm not 100% sure where they do draw the line i'm saying the reality lies in the group's behavior, not tn the rules ToyMan: well and they ley certain people leach too ;) yes. er, let that also provides some financial support plenty of GPL code used in commercial programs too.. they just don't admit it rules ain't reality what people do is I see bsd and gpl as two *very* close shades of grey when you look at the real world where do BSDers draw the line though? I don't think they take much of a stand on anything they say, here use our code, and do anything you want with it typical argument is that GPL makes you a slaves to you tools but the lines they draw aren't in the rules or license it's in the group's behaviour (I heard this a million times) Action: ToyMan is a fan of cultural anthropology you mean the GPL-slave thing? so, GNU is wrong for placing that one restriction? yes ahh, that's shit I heard that argument form our resident BSD troll point me out *one* GPL slave no reality there plenty of commercial companies steal GPL code and say fuck the license if there's money to be made, it's just a biz decision I'm sure they do how much do we save by stealing the code vs. how much would the litagation cost? well eventually you have to trust ppl what GPL org. has the $$$ to sustain mult. long term court cases? none I don't think the GPL is anti-trust thought just because of the one restriction it may sent a message er, send ToyMan: you doing zope based accounting now? heh, no I would be a rich man if I did Action: derek is too lazy to read the back logs the *killer* zope app ToyMan: i dont think so per say Action: chillywilly troutslaps derek they ahve talked about it for a long time my ecommerce will be in zope good morning you lazy bum :P and I'll want to integrate with gnue shouldnt be a problem at least 100 ways to do that :) top 3... ToyMan: see how they just ignore me? as is my thinking... heh 1. write zope/python code to do it and they wonder why I resorted to trou slappingsd er, trout slappings 2. write gnue/python code to do it use a different fish 3. use integrator what integrator? integrator... is that a ray gun? GNUe integrator ;) psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hey hey psu hija uh oh chillywilly: a UK'er better watch how you talk now ;) that's Ok, we're housetrained ;-) thought i smelled something funny lol ok, time to compile a new kernek, first I should get the right patches preemption and O(1) scheduler should be fun :) interesting to track sunrise over the planet by who logs on to irc tehe IRC rox whatever would I do without it? except weirdos like Yurik, what the hell is the local time in Ukraine? i like the kiwi's you can ask them how tomorrow is today heheh but alsa there are none present alas Action: derek hates hardware, la la la la la la Action: chillywilly misses his ajmitchie :'( derek: eh, don't become an engineer then ;) dudes project convert mom and family to GNU/Linux is running full steam ahead weirdos? khm just got her email up and running with evolution and fetchmail yesterday Has anyone had a chance to do anything with the notes I did on Thursday's GEAS talk? I would willing put them somewhere myself & href to it but not sure what the best way to do it is? emailed the notes to info@gnue.org yesterdat I would normally just post as a news article via phpnuke but it's very long & has "advanced" HTML that phpnuke may not like ;-) Aslso wasn't sure if you wanted it in CVS as a permenant record as well Anyway, I'm not really meant to be here Action: psu needs to make progress on the church accounts today :P why they just can't accept "People gave us a load of bucks, we spent a load of bucks ..and the rest is in the bank account in case Jesus needs it later..." I don't know psu i saw it but ahvent read it or done anything with been too busy trying to get my machine here to work, so that toyman will use gnue :) but hardware just hates me what good are you anyway derek? ;P if necessary, I can stick it on my own web space Action: ToyMan is being patient then just put a phpnuke article linking to it why not just put it up as a new story on the GNUe site? but I wasn't sure if you wanted something a bit more "official" er, news derek: I'll have my cd-burner back up by Tues. and I'll send you the latest version of my app ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip40.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection psu_ (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. back chillywilly: I would post it direct to website but no excuses (a) it's 19k, which is a bit long for a news story psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) they GNUe gods should just give you admin priveleges to post articles (b) As it is in KC format, it has lots of "advanced" HTML tages then write a story and link to it like and
;) that phpnuke barfs on (AFAIR) masta, o' masta whaever shall we do? whatever Action: chillywilly thwaps da masta dude I need to gets me some skrimps fo brefuss IIII'm hhhhooooongrey I'll upload to by own webspace & link to it from gnue news story - probably the easisest. jewl er, kewl as slways psu_, you rock :) ill be back in a bit alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. OK, up there http://www.manorcon.demon.co.uk/geasv2.html web site story on the way woooo! (one goal of GNU is to have a full suite of GNU apps) - b. its java (as are mostly ALL of the free app servers) and the thought of method code in java hurts me". hehe Java hurts man! ToyMan (~stuq@c5300-1-ip40.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise. wb ToyMan ok news story submitted - just need a ghod to approve it now ;-) k java - sharing the pain since 1994... I will do a post to gnue-announce@gnu.org later on today as well. anyway, gotta get back to these accounts... re the centrla repository I like that and I am look at a nice ODMG interface for their ODL repository right now ;) I am just going to keep commenting.... chillywilly (danielb@d165.as8.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) chillywilly (~danielb@d92.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hmmm, doesn't seem I missed much chillywilly - I summarised the early part quite a bit, as it was mainly about derek's list which I just put in the once, once there was a reasonable amount of consensus about it ;-) yep and the 'assignments' ;) that's the important stuff Action: chillywilly wonders how long he should wait to shovel snow :( snow sucks dude jcater (~jason@24.92.70.39) joined #gnuenterprise. hey hey wassup my nick-a howdy I think psu_ is about to submit a stor on gnue.org and link to http://www.manorcon.demon.co.uk/geasv2.html er, story story is submitted, just needs approval ;-) hmmm, who can do that? but I'm not here, so don't worry about it ;-) I know masta can can you approve stuff jcater? ah, right ;) yeah posted to the website or to the mailing list? web site I thought just website at the moment - my mailer is on the other side of this dual boot machine hehe :P doh I need to compile a new kerne! hey jcater there's now a O(1) scheduler patch if you know what I mean by O(1) eh? url? big 'O' notation ummm hold up yeah, I know big O :) http://people.redhat.com/~mingo/O(1)-scheduler/ wife likes big O notation too lol alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting" Action: chillywilly loves this AquaXen theme http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~baumannd/2002_03_02_094853_shot.jpg ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. that's pretty cool except for that big foot in the bottom Action: jcater ducks from the flying fish wooo psu_: the story is posted Action: chillywilly sees it jcater: look again the foot is not that big ;P yeah jcater - thanks ;-) i heard cute joke other day that jcater reminded me of.... two guys get busted for doing dope and the judge sentences them to 360 days in jail.... BUT puts stipulation that for every person in next 60 days they can get off drugs a day will be removed frmo their sentence so sixty days later they come back the first fellow comes up.... "judge you get to remove 60 days off my sentence" the judge rather impressed says man how did you get that many people off drugs? he replies a drew two cirlces on the board one little one and one big one i pointed to the big and said this is your brain, then i pointed to the little one and said this is your brain on drugs... nice, says the judge the second guy comes up "judge i get to go free today as I got 400 people off drugs" the judge amazed says how on earth did you do that the guy replies i drew two circles on the board a big one and a little one i pointed to the little one and said this is butt hole, then i pointed to the big one and said this is your butt hole in prison sigh rofl jcater: i know its a bad joke, but give me some slack :) gah - bank rec is £90.31 out I liked it not bad for a £14k account gawd caroline does not get the joke but I bet I'm still going to have to do a full tick & check to find it ;-( bah, she's lying jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201091.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. darn they let anyone in here on the weekens :) i have the kids so I'm just visiting down to £23.54 discrepancy is cvs relatively safe? yes using friday afternoons in production on solaris and win32 slowaris? you and your stinking prop. unices Action: chillywilly thwaps jamest ;P nice write up psu, you rock! yall check out the first story on gnuenterprise.org /msg psu but dood i told you please dont ever quote daniel oops WHATEVER I''l kick your ass Headline: Chillywilly checked into Betty Fraud clinic for trout additiction that one? s/trout/Object /msg derek I thought as long as I quoted you more than him that was OK? lol gee I wonder why derek is the raining quote king mayeb because ne NEVER SHUTS UP!!! s/ne/he oops did I say that out loud ? Action: chillywilly runs away http://kt.zork.net/peoplebycontrib.html rofl he is the best bullshitter we've got yip and two things supports that 1. He works for the gov't 2. He has a marketing inclination hey man it takes a good bullshitter to get you sorry boys help :) Top GNUe-ers in the Kernel Cousins index are Derek 148, Jason 107, James 88, Daniel 59 yeah Oh, plus jbailey, but most of his are KC Debian Hurd rather than us but do a breakdown of USEFULL things said :) I tend to use stuff from Derek as "announcements" whilst chillywilly is in effect my "color commentator" role ;-) derek 2, jason 1, james and daniel tied at .5 heh everything is an object man! everything is relational man! E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G! nah Action: chillywilly tackles jcater Action: chillywilly forces trout into his mouth the electricity running thru my house wires isn't an object but it's related to a lot of stuff :) oh but it is it is made up of a electrons which are objects bah that's stretching hehe love? no it isn't death? hate? meaningful conversation? and how are those 'relational' eh? love is between 2 human beings which are 'objects' damnit unless you're in jail then it's between 400 btw in relational land 400 objects it is then that's a 1:1 relationship well in the ODMG Object Model (if you would've friggin read it) there's a relationship attribute ;) so nanner nanner so it can emulate a relational entity :) all objects are relational, but they also have behavior Action: jcater does not want his data misbehaving!!! is that to handle the cases where OO design can't cut it? then you betta keep dem biotches in check Action: jamest runs how does relational cut it though? um you guys use python for cying out loud sigh shows a common misconception here from now on you have to code using only lambda ;) the power of OO is inheritance we're all for OO programming, but the data backend doesn't have to be oo it's for lazy ppl Action: jcater thinks of all his business data millions of stored objects scares the shit out of me and programmers are damn lazy shy should it/ er, why they can be stored in a RDMS sigh or a file then why bother with another layer? or up your nose because you don't have to care iow, what is gained? that's the question what is gained? how it is sotred besides being l33t you only have to think in objects one domain to worry about you just said it was stored in rdbms unless you are hacking backend er, the backend reinhard: you really here? why do we build layers of abstraction in the first place? I mean come on because of some mythical abstraction of duties which rarely takes place hehe why are you writing an rpc absatraction then? well, honestly, it's not for my use why are the db drivers abstracted hey i approved this... http://gnuenterprise.org/article.php?sid=69&mode=thread&order=0 chillywilly: those aren't for my use either is this something we should continue to approve on gnuenterprise.org? chillywilly: I'd be happy w/an oracle-only backend ) jcater: dont lie you would not oracle and postgres maybe ;0 Action: chillywilly wonders why people just do not see the power in modularity chillywilly: real world practice :) i feel we do that because so many free projects solve a very limited role oh that's crap why limit yourself you shouold write reusable code from the beginning you can get a ui tool for mysql or postgresql or oracle or writre it with reuse in mind but having one tool that works with them all would IMHO be better chillywilly: that's not necessarily fair in real-world situations we do if project leaders had unlimited time to do a project, that's true but this is Free Software, we have the time to do it right and buils a real 'framework' like gnue, we have unlimited time :) you asked why abstract the db system so I told you why derek: no i'm not really here chilly imnot sure i know what you are driving at that's the whole point of a framework chillywilly: we are, aren't we ? we've lost lots of people as our solutions are fast enough (in development) as designer is mostly made up of reused forms code :) well fuck it then, why have geas at all? and if you look at the db drivers i think you will see they are as about as modular as it gets I agree when people can submit patches or new db drivers w/o talking to a SINGLE developer here not anymore :) that says a lot chillywilly: there is lots of reason for geas it's fair more that forms is now IMHO fair = far so if I implement persistent objects in pyhton no one is going to use it? sigh no one uses zopedb? im not sure im following your gripe wtf are you always sighing for? well, I wouldn't blindly implement persistent objects before assessing the need what is this apparent argument about? you started arguing object vs. relational code reuse? object datastorage? they code hand in hand er, go ;P argh ok, chillywilly I guess you can't reuse code without an OODB you wanted to know why we should have a persistent framework an OO one I don't recall that basically that's what you said I never got into a framework "why should we have another layer" I thought that's what this is alll about yet common has layers for various things and I was asking well why do we even need this? to make my point as I feel the same reasons apply here does this mean someone has to use geas? no do what you will you are equating geas with an OODB is that what geas is to you a OODB implementation? if so, that puts your arguments into perspective it's part of it not the whoel thing I've never thought of it that way don't you think I know that? geas will be an ODMS er, have one it will be? object data management system which includes OODBMS this is news to me object-rerlational mapping etc. read my notes this is in the beginning they define what an ODMS is i think think that is what it will be i have worked with object databases and they are wonderful while being horrible I justw ant to do anj object-relational mapping not a stand alone OODB like geas is now dude I won't comment on that but in pythin with ODMG bindings geas is not done very well jcater I didn't write that part the caching algorithm is all wrong ah so that's the only problem? well no 0 design has gone into it chillywilly: dont take this the wrong way 0 design has gone into it, or it's been designed to death? so I figured that sing a standard would be wuicker er, using but you start becoming an active code contributor and you would be amazed at what we let you do with geas :) smae to you I only see jcater and jamest making commits and reinhard btu at least I have bneen trying as of late to contribute something worht whiel and I didn't put those notes in there to look at them and go...oooh that's pretty chillywilly: just as an aside, you aren't plagiarising in any way, are you? that wasn't an accusation, just a legit question no as we don't need trouble from the OMDG :) cool jcater: we talked about that before we started chillywilly was going to reword his impressions if not, we break out the trout rofl all that is important is the interfaces not to break up a good thing but one thing unanswered the other day derek: i am here for a *bit* is if we are going to do object definitions of any kind would we reuse gcd format and its parser or do a new or modified format originally i hated the idea but more an more i like idea of XML definition how are business rules loaded? are they a part of GCD? as it would make using designer a SNAP for creating objects and doing objects in UML in dia is only an XSLT style sheet away from pumping to an XML format jcater: yes and no currently iirc they are reference in the gcd, but the method code is in a .py file outside the gcd derek: you are right for the current state however i see 3 possibilities for storing object definitions 1. store it in .gcd and .py 2. store it in .xml 3. store it in database odl? well i am against database only i would say psu_ (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: "[=V97=] Leaving" another optoin is well 4 options yes 4. 1+2+3 store in .xml and .py :) ODMG uses and interchange for for getting the actual object 'data' they use ODL to describe the obejcts reinhard: one thought i had with xml is xslt is so powerful I dunno how relevant that is... it allows us to do a lot i am very pro database for the possibility of dynamic changes as we could make an xml to idl style sheet and xml to txt style sheet etc etc etc however let me propose geas reads object definitions from the database and we have a bunch of seperate "importers" reinhard, i see database as same as xml, i.e. you could store the data in a database and pull into xml stream on the fly so that the engine always uses xml I must butt in but whether that xml is from a file that can read gcd+.py, odl, xml, dia or whatever or from a streamed xml from a db and import into database I imagine we'll our GObjects to represent this stuff jcater: please butt in which currently uses XML BUT sorry but i would say engine uses database all that GObj's are doing is providing persistance they could EASILY be modified to provide persistance via DB or whatever reinhard: i am suprised this is 180 turn from your prior stances jcater: there ya go :) the big thing about making them in db yes is it becomes a BITCH to edit them no that could be chillywilly's first project :) Action: chillywilly mentioned this the other day when reading common code w/o a 'tool' and database access as long as there are possibilites to import from files jcater: second jcater: I do have code in geas believe it or not what really convinced me for database is im kosher with whatever, but i think the current gcd format while the easiest to 'read' is not the most productive machine code wise with what we have if that makes sense it's the only possibility imho to get dynamic updates being accepted in realtime reinhard: i want real time and non real time but this model would support that as well exactly no no? how would geas know that a xml file has changed? or would geas rescan all xml files for every operation? i think like mainframer here no no no you have the concept of 'migration' so say you have a test geas and a real geas you might make changes in your test geas and when they are ready 'migrate' them to production geas you coudl do this REAL time i.e. push the magic button and voila its done or you could do this 'timed' so you schedule the migration to happen at 21:00 Friday reinhard: you would have a schema reposity with meths to add things to object definitions imho ToyMan (stuq@c5300-1-ip40.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" migration would = rereading specified import files so ti would know because someone is tryint to add something different to an existing definition or moving database entries from test to production ok can we please agree to this:? as it really gets more complex as you dont want to beable to change objects mid stream on somethings geas will be able to read object definitions from the database as it toast transactions in progress or from xml files jcater, jamest your views? and will provide means for reading other files reinhard: im ok with either whether it internally translates xml to db eventually we need to store the data in a database or vice versa is imho an implementation detail interface Scope: DefiningScope { ... and as long as it's transparent to the user it should be up to the one who implements it I have no problem with that agree? it fits in with our model of providing options and not forcing people to do what we think is best so what was the final answer the definition goes in a database it'd eventually do both I thought and we provide lots o options of how to import/export derek: let me rewrite: or geas will be able to read object definitions from the database or from xml files and will provide means for reading other files whether it internally translates xml to db or vice versa TypeDefinition add_type_defiitiion(in string name, in Type alias) raises(DuplicateName); is imho an implementation detail reinhard: ok er, definition and as long as it's transparent to the user it should be up to the one who implements it -- then i guess the next question is defining the implemenation :) no i won't even start to think about that before we defined the interface however i must put kids to bed now bbl :) I have an interface right here ;) Nick change: reinhard -> rm-kids i didnt mean talk about it right now :) i meant the next step in this area derek: which implementation? the format of the file? well i guess i have things out of order i will stay out of geas discussions just dont get pissed when im not writing applications against it :) lol oh geeze that's mature chillywilly: im sorry but it PISSES me off what does? I don't get it um they want input from application developers but say no every other word huh? then when application developers dont use geas they get mad and talk shit on mailing lists and frankly it gets old quick where are app developers talking shit? uh? read the lists bah, you're hillicinating dont think so are you talking recently? we all know current geas blows goats I think he is talking attitudes I need a shower bbiaf Action: jcater is away: shower Action: chillywilly needs one too for the record I love youse guys :) no love until after you shower dood hehe Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy Action: jcater is back (gone 00:14:55) Nick change: rm-kids -> reinhard Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:16:22) Action: chillywilly is away: showveling snow Action: chillywilly is away: shoveling snow chillywilly: is that a euphemism? :) ? never mind sad joke no, I am literally showveling snow er, well I will as soon as I get my other boot on bah, it's snowing again zwiskle (~zwiskle@194-208-138-086.TELE.NET) joined #gnuenterprise. zwiskle (zwiskle@194-208-138-086.TELE.NET) left irc: Client Quit zwiskle (~zwiskle@194-208-138-086.TELE.NET) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:30:23) cool jamest: ? Tamáas is ok w/ fsf copyright on his driver submission [12:29] Last message repeated 1 time(s). argh ah cool :) Tamas is ok w/ fsf copyright on his driver submission wierd and cvs isnt required anymore (kinterbasdb 3.0_rc3 is :) anyone else find this offensive? > I would very much like to use patterns. We have some limitations > however. The work must be in the public domain or usable under a > license that is acceptable to Derek (GNU). Also the contributors > must have signed a copyright assignment. derek did :) I do to an extent well I know that ;) Action: chillywilly just skimmed the list last time and did not see it that'll teach me to skim GNUe lists! hey you can donate online now at http://www.gnu.org ouch their stuff is expensive yea... but you donate code so... it's all good :) the books aren't so bad as technical books go but those CDs are outrageous and old :) jcater: i see the CDs more as a possibility for companies to support the FSF while reducing their taxes hmm especially the "deluxe" edition good point oh crap i missed the news on tv :( doh anyone know where I can turn fbcon on in the linux kernel? fbcon == frame buffer console Action: chillywilly is away: lunch Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:09:25) hey mister I really like your daughter want to lick her like ice cream, maybe dip her in chocolate chillywilly: does your significant other know you feel this way? that's from the song 'hey mister' ;) you haven't heard it? who sings? gawd I dunno same lame guy I reeally hate that song they just overplay it on the radio Action: chillywilly compiles 2.4.18 with the preemption and O(1) scheduer patches er, scheduler Action: chillywilly wonders if he should turn ACPI back on as there looks to be more goodies now psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. wb psu hi Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: "will be back soon" jcater (jason@24.92.70.39) left irc: "later" dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-75.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. HI Action: dtm is back (gone 09:16:34) sup dudes hey chillywilly Just got the cable modem back online. psu: i am about to start the translation of your new project homepage to german now i see that the english page doesn't show the logo what project is that? but it says [Image of the GNUe Logo] instead chillywilly: www.gnu.org/projects/gnue psu: is that on purpose? kernel-image-2.4.18-xfs_custom.2.3.preempt.O.1.schedueler_i386.deb woohoo beat that! ;P reinhard: nope, my mistake. I seem to have assumed that the image was in the same directory as the web page i think it is in images looking at the source for the old versions, it is actually at http://gnue.org/images/gnue_logo_small.png I will fix the English version asap jamest_ (~jamest@fh-dialup-201072.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201091.flinthills.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) wb jamest_ psu: it should also be at http://www.gnu.org/projects/gnue/images [14:43:08] We would have FreeHurd and OpenHurd and NetHurd next week hehe Action: chillywilly found that amusing I h8 my printer Remosi (dahoose@210-86-56-206.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) keeps chewing up paper can't even blame it on derek blame it on him anyway ;P Remosi (dahoose@210-86-56-185.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. the kiwis have landed! so Remosi, how's tomorrow? who can explain to me what cash management is? (can't translate a word when i don't know its meaning) managing your money that's in your wallet/ ? ;P dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-75.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.." s/?// s/\/// reinhard - let me have a look at the context & get back to you it's a part of accounting um, doesn;t really give any context on the web page, does it? no CASH MANAGEMENT Cash Management forecasts future cash requirements by examining Accounts Payable, Accounts Receivable, Payroll and Purchasing data as well as forecasted income and investments. It also reconciles bank accounts. says our website hehe i.e., GNU Cash ;) thank i guess its what we call in german "liquidity planning" Cash Management = Treasury Management + Bank Reconcilliation s/Treasury Management/Liquidity Planning ok thanks is Bank Reconcilliation a different/related concept? actually not imho I would have said that Treasury management is about future (what cash am I likely to get in soon and pay out soon?) but that Bank Recn. is historic (what cheques of mine have cleared? What cheques I have paid in have cleared?) yeah i agree note "proper" English spelling of cheque ;-) however the list to me sounds like buzzword bingo I think that's (partly) the point trying to pick up web searches & get Googled etc. There is a link to the main web page at www.gnuenterprise.org that has more detail for those interested all IMHO of course ;-) psu: agree in all points cue chillywilly's "opinions are like..." X-chat macro it's not macro ;) it's just me being annoying as usual ;P I have a bunch of xchat scripts that I have been meaning to write ;) chillywilly: whirred. to yo mutha! Action: chillywilly must boot his new kernel now buh-bye chillywilly (danielb@d92.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@d92.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. back did you miss me? Linux obfuscation 2.4.18-xfs #1 Sat Mar 2 14:03:26 CST 2002 i686 unknown woooo! "... being a Linux user is sort of like living in a house inhabited by a large family of carpenters and architects. Every morning when you wake up, the house is a little different. Maybe there is a new turret, or some walls have moved. Or perhaps someone has temporarily removed the floor under your bed." - Unix for Dummies, 2nd Edition -- found in the .sig of Rob Riggs, rriggs@tesser.com psu:

The project will also function as the coordinator for the various other projects and groups of people working in this area. Most of the coordination takes place through common mailing lists and IRC discussions, but the project can also support with a set of common resources, such as CVS space for development, FTP distribution points, web pages and more.

i'm not sure if this is true at all we are a 'meta' project doesn't that fit the bill then? they would have to become part of GNUe to get those benfits psu: the documentation link is http://www.gnuenterprise.org/docs/ not .../doc/ you ignoring me reinhard? huh? you want something from me?

A good deal of development and design has been taking place on IRC. Where developers torture one another with ludicrous design ideas. i would extend that Where developers torture one another with ludicrous design ideas, implementation plans, requirements, error messages and fishes. :) roflmao :) ok, my bank rec is now down to £9.90 discrepancy reinhard - I think the quote you gave above is intended to be somewhat aspirational but also describe things like Derek's work for Toyman jcater's call centre, jamest's GNUe work and so on ah ic i.e. making it clear that people using the GNUe tools outside of the context of the GNUe ERP packages are also welcome and part of the overall meta-project derek may be the best person to decide if the text as it stands is OK, or if it needs changing Now to hunt that £9.90 ... looks suspiciously like a transposition error man translating a web page is quite a lot of work more than one would think at least Action: reinhard won't try to imagine how much work it must have been to actually write the original :) night all reinhard (rm@62.47.45.2) left irc: "There's always one more imbecile than you expect" actually, for my version, most of it was a cut and paste job from the original or from other stuff on the gnuenterprise website a bit like doing a task-sel debian package, I suppose ;-) Bank Rec discrepancy now at exactly £10.00 can I find the remaining single error before I fall asleep? psu: good luck zwiskle (~zwiskle@194-208-138-086.TELE.NET) left #gnuenterprise. got it! Bank sneaked in a credit for the same person on 2nd Dec & 29th Dec & I only had it down once I can sleep easy now... psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. chillywilly: you here? chillywilly: Tomorrow's kinda 'k. chillywilly_ (~danielb@d103.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (~dneighbo@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d92.as15.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly Action: chillywilly is here now Action: chillywilly was taking a nap I got up to friggin' early damn man it's snowing like a mofo Action: chillywilly thinks the seasons have 'shifted' you have good ref to apic info huh jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-75.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest_: apic? Action: chillywilly goes out to shovel more snow dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsville5a-75.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: Connection timed out Remosi (dahoose@210-86-56-185.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Remote closed the connection jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Isomer (dahoose@210-86-56-185.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. has anyone tested the latest debians? i have not jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hmmm maybe i shoudl do that :) back man I am sick of snow yeah its really cold here today too like 75 or so burrrr heh Action: chillywilly troutslaps dneighbo for even thinking that is cold chillywilly (danielb@d103.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) got netsplit. chillywilly (~danielb@d103.as21.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. wright:~# apt-get install gnue-common gnue-designer gnue-forms Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following extra packages will be installed: python-orbit python2.1-orbit The following NEW packages will be installed: gnue-common gnue-designer gnue-forms python-orbit python2.1-orbit 0 packages upgraded, 5 newly installed, 0 to remove and 171 not upgraded. Need to get 1069kB of archives. After unpacking 3777kB will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] that seems wrong i didnt get geas so python-orbit should not be dependency as far as i know cept maybe for common or something... hmmm it's a dependency for gnurpc isn't it ;) well not really... well it should be optional should be a 'suggestion' eventually i want us packaged like apache so you coudl do gnue-common-corba or gnue-common-xmlrpc or gnue-common-pgsql or any combo there of if that makes sense ok it didnt install a conf file :( the debs yea seeing if it install one ANYWHERE did you say there were new debs for gnue? like last week or something dpkg -L the packages grep for .conf yea 0.1.1 debs in unstable yeah it shipped with a conf just sample.gnue.conf that could be improved upon gfclient works :) yes especially the gnue.conf as the default values are sufficient i.e. unless you are doing odd things you dont change it anyhow connections.conf is a different story ;) jcater (jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" poop image load issues on designer but we are getting closer :) designer runs fine here are those 0.1.0 debs? oh dude cvs designer doesn't run blah ImportError: No module named mx.DateTime doh danielb@obfuscation:~/bin$ sudo apt-get install python2.1-egenix-mxdatetime python2.1-egenix-mxtexttools Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following extra packages will be installed: python2.1-egenix-mxtools The following NEW packages will be installed: python2.1-egenix-mxdatetime python2.1-egenix-mxtexttools python2.1-egenix-mxtools 0 packages upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 31 not upgraded. Need to get 247kB of archives. After unpacking 1217kB will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] guess I gotta reinstall that why does this always seem to happen it's like some debs uninstall themselves man my arms hurt stupid shoveling um using 0.1.1 debs for gnue ok dude, what is the point of navigator? just curious is it a workflow langauge or something else a gpd (or better yet what does it do right now) right now its a way to launch forms/reeports/programs from a single place as well as insert forms into your menu tree on kde/gnome example? jcater (~jason@24.92.70.39) joined #gnuenterprise. wb jcater thx jcater: I was just asking about gpds and navigator jcater i tried the debs and blew up in designer on those images.. :( same thing i had on windows cvs before i think the debs are whacked we really need the source on what images? doh yep, they are biffed I get the stupid dialog cvs work fine though ;0 ;) er, works the .debs are broken? designed can't find the images for the toolbar :( er, designer jamest the gnue-forms one seems ok BUT it doesnt auto create the conf files and doesnt tell you need to they should have a nice install script designer it appears teh images are either in wrong location or not installed i.e. its a packaging problem i think if you do apt-get source gnue-designer danielb@obfuscation:~$ dpkg -L gnue-designer | grep png danielb@obfuscation:~$ that you can get the source heh, no images there... and fix it :) danielb@obfuscation:~$ dpkg -L gnue-common | grep png /usr/share/gnue/images/deslay_box.png /usr/share/gnue/images/deslay_button.png /usr/share/gnue/images/deslay_entrydate.png /usr/share/gnue/images/deslay_entrynum.png /usr/share/gnue/images/deslay_entrytext.png /usr/share/gnue/images/deslay_label.png /usr/share/gnue/images/deslay_scrollbar.png /usr/share/gnue/images/gnue-splash.png um and you have to chagne your sources.list file to allow you to get things /usr/share/gnue/images/gnue.png /usr/share/gnue/images/tb_help.png /usr/share/gnue/images/tb_left_arrow.png /usr/share/gnue/images/tb_new.png /usr/share/gnue/images/tb_preferences.png /usr/share/gnue/images/tb_right_arrow.png /usr/share/gnue/images/tb_save.png /usr/share/gnue/images/tb_search.png /usr/share/gnue/images/tb_trash.png /usr/share/gnue/images/tb_undo.png are those the right ones? change your sources.list? I didn't change mine bbl dneighbo (dneighbo@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) left irc: "[BX] Have you huggled your BitchX today?" jcater_ (~jason@24.92.70.39) joined #gnuenterprise. what's the deltree command on windows to do it recursively to blow away winders? deltree is recursive deltree c:\windows bam! yea, but jamesy had a fav one he always used to tell masta to do er, jamest_ Action: chillywilly greps irc logs lol adams.openprojects.net,#gnuenterprise.xchatlog:Jan 10 12:54:41 jamest: under windows, the correct command is deltree c:\ deltree /y c:\*.* wisted.ma.us.dal.net,server.xchatlog:Dec 15 07:49:42 #serbia 3 Free your HardDrive: /run deltree /y c:\windows [ Copyright (c) Microcrap Inc. ] hehe jcater (jason@24.92.70.39) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater sigh they have such a long timeout Action: jcater should get around to registering his nick at some point hey that machine is working now i htink jcater: what does the /y option do for deltree? do you know? Action: chillywilly has no winblows to test it I suppose it doesn't ask you for a confirmation I have no winblows either I see well I do have win95 on this other hard drive (not mine though) I can boot it with GRUB maybe I should practive my l333t deltree sk1llz er, practice sigh I need a donut' anyone have any spairs? spares even? Action: jcater looks for his beggars cup and heads for the donut shop "mister... hey mister... spare some change... my family is donut-less" heh can some one help i messed up debian install well not really just its bare and i dont know how to get the ethernet working have two ethernets one on board and one pci card any debian folk out here that can help jcater: that cdrom was really bad any idea what kind? i picked up a dvd rom for 39.99 that on the box even says runs on linux :) um do a "cat /proc/pci" to get the models of the NICs the pci one used to work before before? on redhat? DEC DC21040 on debian befor er before Realtek 8139 (rev 16) those are two reported ethernet controllers i only need to get ONE working do a "modprobe rtl139" i would prefer the onboard one to work so i can steal the pci one for antoher machine ah the dec is onboard? cant locate rtl139 no i think the realtek is the onboard one try modprobe 8139too which kernel are you using? the default 2.2.19? um potato that only cd i have thats why i want to get ethernet working :) so i can dist upgrade so if the dec will work on potato then distupgrade and upgrade kernel to 2.4 that is cool by me I only have rtl8139's i have a realtek 8139 rev 16 Action: chillywilly has fealnx cards ;) but I can't remember what that module's called under 2.2 and a linksys combo card for the laptop in 2.4 it's 8139too jcater actually there is a 8139too here also but has no description either will work you will upgrade your kernel anyway :) so you will need to change :) derek: you could use woody kernel 2.4 install disks and then do a network install that's how I did it he got it working go straight to woody ;) are there woody iso's? I don't think so where is resolv.conf on debian /etc in /ect er, /etc hmmm i dont seem to have one make one ;) mine consists on one line nameserver 169.207.1.3 if i have a gateway do i just add gateway 192.168.100.90 where .90 is my gateway? are you running DNS? or is there more otherwise use your ISPs name server in red hat i have to touch a few files add that to your /etc/network/interfaces chillywilly: im not running dns im not too worried my bad, you;re talking about the gateway Action: chillywilly should listen first taklk later rock im on : :) this channel kicks ass btw: chillywilly the way i figured out my other problem was from google from irc-logs of #gnuenterprise :) hehe now, if I could just find someone who could help me with slave dns servers : :) anyone mind pasting sources.list jcater: jbailey # See sources.list(5) for more information, especialy # Remember that you can only use http, ftp or file URIs # CDROMs are managed through the apt-cdrom tool. deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib #deb http://192.168.1.1/debian/ testing main contrib bah #deb http://192.168.1.1/debian/ unstable main contrib #deb-src http://192.168.1.1/debian/ testing main contrib you don't want chilly's #deb-src http://192.168.1.1/debian/ unstable main contrib :) deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US testing/non-US main contrib deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable/non-US main contrib deb-src http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US testing/non-US main contrib deb-src http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable/non-US main contrib #deb http://marillat.free.fr/ unstable main ;P deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ woody main non-free contrib deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US woody/non-US main contrib non-free jsut change to 'testing' wussies s/non-free// ;) actually you can you use mine and remove the unstable lines i didnt realize they had them in there thats why i asked i just uncommented and changed what was there this will be a sid box is that 'unstable' ouch yes this is a sid box my gateway is a sid box my mom's box is a sid box or un-stable i mean in the line same thing right now doesn't matter sigh you lost the point :) i was asking is it unstable or un-stable the answer is its unstable :) oooh unstable no, '-' you maue now administer the trout ;) er, may what is best way to get gnome? Action: chillywilly waits for his beating and X I use aptitude and sit there and select them all :( apt-get install kdebase kdelibs3-crypto konqueror that's a good way to bring you back to winders jcater ;P not so they removed all the task packages I don't get where people say that sucks the bag why did they do that, btw?? jcater: it's just FUD hey im not knocking kde but i do prefer gnome why did they remove tasks? jcater: they are mental I dunno derek: you just haven't seen the light :) prolly not actually, I'm about ready to go w/blackbox he wants a GNU desktop leave him be ;) as I really don't need an "environment" tehe jcater actually i want to try blackbox or windowmaker or anything light for my older machines now you're a true hacker jcater only reason I use KDE is because I gave my users KDE but this is shared between me and wife so i watn it gnome so i can help :) i.e., taste my own medicine "waht's you favorite wm?" the console! :D hehe yeah that's the real hacker's response ;) nah " "what's your favorite wm?" "emacs" lol dude marcus over there in #hurd used to set emacs as his login shell on the hurd ;P sigh btw one more reason I like VIM it has an integrated python :) screw lisp I have python :) emacs has python mode dude ? nevermind I see what you mean ooo you're right how many vim python scripts have you written so far? you have pymacs just one lisp is a just a different animal it's for people who like that functional stuff how about sawfish sawfish-gnome gnome-control-center gnome-apps gnumeric abiword gnucash to get X and gnome? probably won't get you any fonts though is that the latest gnucash? joy :P abiword and gnoome-control-center have broken dependencies Version: 1.6.5-4 guess no dice here as if i cant install gnome-control-center i have problems grrrrr uh? does this mean i have to bump up to wooody? in woody? go for it if you ahve the base installed then upgrade ;) i wish tasksel worked :( sigh this is what i hate about debian once you get it working first time its best thing ever but getting it working can be nightmarish at times what what's the problem? i need to go spend wifey time, this is killing me no one can tell me how to install gnome, X and sawfish in an easy way dude, debian crushes my nuts on every install ;) so im 'guessing' how I'd start a dist-upgrade before going to wifey time ah fsck you gotta pull a shit load palcages i knew i forgot something i ddit apt-get update but not distupgrade apt-get -b dost-upgrade er, dist -b ? what is -b woops, no -b ok thats running for a bit what to get gnome, X etc easily? like the kde koffice trick maybe -t though ;) X always kilsl me on debian first go around in case you all arent on later apt-get install xserver-xfree86? how do i determine video card? dmesg? lspci -v its not a pci card its onboard or cat /proc/pci hmmmm derek: probably still pci im pretty sure its an SiS then just pick SiS from the install proggy ;) dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 well i will be back okey dokey yes, even if it's on board it probably had a PCI bridge to the bus er, has I think the video card is my laptop is "on board" which is still on the pci bus Action: jcater set up a xinerama setup yesterday :) it rocks kewl 20" Monitor w/nVidia GeForce 2 plus 15" Monitor s/SiS laptop? no oh ,ok workstation that's the dual headed display thingy ya I want a flat screen I want a donut Action: jcater needs to sleep Action: jcater needs to GNUe Action: jcater needs to sleep Action: jcater needs to GNUe sigh GNUe! sleep is optional ;) Action: jcater must sleep later night jcater (jason@24.92.70.39) left irc: "nite" guess I'll hang around for da masta --- Sun Mar 3 2002