[00:06] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<Mr_You> re
<Mr_You> how are things?
<chillywilly> ok
<Mr_You> same
<chillywilly> feeling a bit tired
<Mr_You> yeah I gotta crash.. going to aikido seminar tommorow
<chillywilly> cool
Action: chillywilly is going to church as usual
<Mr_You> compilin a kernel
Action: chillywilly compiled one today ;)
<chillywilly> with the preemption and O(1) scheduler patches
<Mr_You> cool how's it working?
<Mr_You> not familiar with O scheduler
<chillywilly> it improves performance
<chillywilly> makes tings a bit more responsive
<chillywilly> ok, I must sleep
<Mr_You> cool
<Mr_You> g'night
<chillywilly> nickr: I appoint you official debian expert
<chillywilly> and your first mission, should you choose to accept it, is the help da masta when he returns ;)
<chillywilly> night
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<Mr_You> me too
Action: Mr_You &
<nickr> heh
<derek> im here
<derek> nickr: what is easiest way to get x, gnome and sawfish?
<derek> on debian
<nickr> apt-get install x-window-system gnome-control-center gnome-panel-applets gnome-session gdm gnome-terminal sawfish-gnome
<nickr> and then install any apps you want
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<psu> all quiet on the GNUe-astern front
<nickr> okay I'm silly
<nickr> how do I clear bits with a bitmask
<psu> foo AND 01010101
<psu> where 1 = keep bit, 0 = clear bit
<psu> ?
<nickr> yea
<nickr> okay
<nickr> I just need to not a bitmask of the bits
<psu> I don't think I've done bitmasking since I dabbled in Z80 assembler back in the 1980s...
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> ah
<nickr> the silly thing here is that ~ is bitwise not and ! is logical not
<psu> boolean logic - that well know oxymoron ;-)
<psu> along with "military intelligence" and "political integrity"
<nickr> heh
<psu> bbl
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<Yurik> re
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<jamest_> good day
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<Yurik> re
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<Yurik> chillywilly: hi
<chillywilly> ello
<derek> bbl
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<chillywilly> hi reinhard
<reinhard> hey chilly
<chillywilly> cool
<chillywilly> they are going to play Dune later today on the scifi channel
<chillywilly> rock!
<chillywilly> reinhard: I am about to commit the Meta Object API thingy from the ODMG, I think implementing it would be very important for us
<reinhard> shoot away :)
<chillywilly> (as this would the schema compiler part that neilt has in his diagram)
<chillywilly> lemme see how far I am
<chillywilly> well maybe it will be a bit later
<chillywilly> I gotta go do some stuff
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: Yurik got to met w/ E/AS participant in 10 minutes for discussions. bye all
<Yurik> s/met/meet/
<chillywilly> E/AS == ??
<chillywilly> enterprise something?
<Yurik> chillywilly: www.openeas.org :-)
<chillywilly> hmmm, ok
<chillywilly> enterprise automation eh?
<Yurik> yes, open source project :)
<chillywilly> do they have much code?
<Yurik> chillywilly: not they, but we :-) not too much, but a strong architecture background
<chillywilly> how does this compare to GNUe?
<chillywilly> in you overall goals that is
<Yurik> generally speaking, goals are quite similar
<chillywilly> what does "automation" involve?
<chillywilly> computerizing things?
<Yurik> everything. it's a framework
<chillywilly> like us ;)?
<Yurik> well, yes, but w/ another approaches
<chillywilly> which is?
<Yurik> strong object "delegation" (prototype-based) structure; 
<chillywilly> like geas?
<Yurik> no
<Yurik> our objects differs from classic, they're like in SUN Self (generally)
<chillywilly> well what do you mean then
Action: chillywilly is not familiar with SUN Self
<Yurik> well, there is no "classes", only objects that have another objects as s.c. "prototypes"
<chillywilly> s.c.?
<Yurik> and, of course, basing on this model we have interesting distributed architecture
<Yurik> s.c. = so called
<chillywilly> you're trying to do distributed objects then?
<chillywilly> I think in the long run GEAS will do distributed transactions
<Yurik> yes
<chillywilly> like ISO XA
<Yurik> but in specific manner
<Yurik> also we used to include strong security from the very start and trying to make a very flexible framework, running on various platforms
<chillywilly> sounds like CORBA to me :P
<Yurik> not like CORBA
<chillywilly> you plan to support many protocols?
<chillywilly> xml-rpc, soap, corba, etc.
Action: chillywilly thinks we need an irc protocl adapter for geas ;)
<Yurik> no, inside there will be only one protocol, but outside of the system - any of the above (well, most of, I suppose)
<chillywilly> that would be cool to hook the app server  up to the channel
<Yurik> inside will be an Erlang messaging protocol
<Yurik> as a low level protocol
<chillywilly> I didn't know anyone used 'erlang'
<chillywilly> ;)
<Yurik> I use Erlang
<chillywilly> you're a freak though
<Yurik> for E/AS coding, too
<chillywilly> it's expected ;)
<chillywilly> j/k
<Yurik> j/k?
<chillywilly> j/k == just kidding
<Yurik> ah
Action: Yurik really got to run
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> catcha later
<Yurik> yeah, cu 
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Action: cw-away is away: brb
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<nickr> I thought erlang was only for crazies
Action: cw-away is back (gone 01:01:41)
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<derek> hey just who i was looking for 
<derek> you really here
<derek> chillywilly: .....
<derek> YOU HERE
<derek> oops
<chillywilly> yes
Action: chillywilly is busy trying to get this burner to work
<derek> hey
<derek> how do i configure x on debian
<derek> you told me before something different than everyone else and it worked better :)
<derek> but i didnt write it in my notebook :(
Action: derek admits that the wife has actually removed the notebook and i cant find it
<chillywilly> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
<chillywilly> you can do that with any package
<chillywilly> to run theor setup proggy
<derek> hmmm thats one i ran
<derek> and X still dont work
<derek> is there an XF86Config or something 
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<chillywilly>  /etc/X11/XF86xonfig-4 is it
<chillywilly> er, config
<chillywilly> brb
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<derek> wassup up
<derek> i have gnome
<derek> happy happy happy dance!
<nickr> derek: cool:)
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<nickr> derek: apt-get install xserver-xfree86 and use debconf to do it
<nickr> oh
<nickr> chw already told you
<chillywilly> he doesn't listen very well
<chillywilly> ;P
<psu> I know it's not really part of the GNUe skillset
<psu> but do we have any perl semi-experts about?
<psu> I need to get some perl scripts I have d/l installed correctly and
<psu> I'm being totally cluless about it
<derek> perl sucks BUT
<psu> probably need about 5 mins of attention 
<derek> jbailey and jcater both are perl afficiandos (iirc)
<derek> pre python days :)
<psu> from someone who knows more what they are doing
<psu> thanks - will try them ;-)
<derek> mdean-[work]:  also knows perl
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<psu> I want to be able to test my KC issues before I send them properly
<psu> the conversion scripts are all perl
<nickr> I know perl too
<psu> nickr - let me reboot, then I'll be back with some *very* basic questions 
<psu> this should all run out of the box, but I am just being clueless
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<derek> anyone here get dvd to work on linux before
<nickr> Yep
<nickr> Pretty successfully
<nickr> the player crashes periodicly but its not much of an imposition
<nickr> :)
<nickr> apt-get install vlc-gtk vlc-sdl
<derek> did you apt-get what you needed?
<derek> oh rock
<nickr> then you have to get a libdvdcss
<nickr> No, you can't, because libdvdcss is illegal in the US
<derek> sigh
<nickr> so you go to the videolan homepage and get the source and compile/install it
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<nickr> then you adjust your dvd drive to use DMA .. you need the hdparm package for that
<nickr> then you can play no ploblem
<derek> sounds like a pain :(
<nickr> its not as hard as it sounds :)
<nickr> wget http://www.videolan.org/pub/videolan/libdvdcss/1.0.0/libdvdcss-1.0.0.tar.gz
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<dtm> hi all
<dtm> chillywilly++
<chillywilly> dtm--
<dtm> ha!
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<nickr> dtm -= chillywilly;
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<psu> nickr: thanks for the offer of help
<psu> afraid I'm going to have to pass
<psu> for the moment
<nickr> Heh
<nickr> oh no!
<psu> other stuff come up
<psu> bbl
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<derek> all i can say is holy smokes
<nickr> what?
<derek> duron 1.7ghz w/ only 128mb w/ gnome1.4 seems to SMOKE
<derek> way faster than my p4 900mhz with 128mhz (windows) at work
<nickr> A ppro 200 with 128mb works well too
<derek> i thought it usable but slow on my k2 350mhz
<nickr> hrm.
<derek> k;lklnm,
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<btami> Hi
<btami> Is anybody there?
<derek> me
<btami> I have 2 problem.
<nickr> I'm here.
<btami> First: I can't see toolbar in designer, but evrything else seems to be OK
<btami> Any ideas?
<btami> Sec: I tried the master/detail wizard in designer with
<btami> interbase, and when I run the form I get an SQL error: Token unknown NULL
<btami> the SQL sentence: select count(*) from employee_project where emp_no = NULL
<btami> this came from common.dbdrivers._dbsig.dbdriver._buildQueryCount
<btami> I think the right form: "emp_no IS NULL", not "emp_no = NULL"
<btami> what do yuo think?
<btami> yuo=you
<btami> Am I here :)
<btami> yes
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<btami> Hi again!
<btami> Somebody read my questions?
<btami> Or they lost in space?
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<btami> hello all
<btami> can I ask 2 question?
<reinhard> btami: from the logs
<reinhard> i see that your questions are related to designer
<reinhard> if jcater is really here he should be able to answer them
<reinhard> jcater ?
<reinhard> btami: probably sunday is not the best day to ask questions...
<btami> OK. I will try tomorrow. By.
<reinhard> btami: maybe you wait
<reinhard> a few minutes
<reinhard> maybe jcater comes back
<btami> OK
<reinhard> btami: you are from hungary?
<btami> yes
<reinhard> where?
<reinhard> budapest?
<btami> Szeged
<reinhard> cool
<btami> You know it
<btami> ?
<reinhard> i was never there
<reinhard> i was in budapest and in debrecen
<btami> nice places too
<reinhard> and i know the szegenin guylas
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> or however this is written in english :)
<btami> i am matematik, and tri to learn GNUe, python, XML...
<reinhard> cool
<btami> gulyás is the right spelling in hungarian :)
<reinhard> i am tired, and try to g to bed now ;)
<reinhard> btami: ah
<reinhard> kösönöm (?)
<btami> not at all
<btami> you are great!
<reinhard> kösönöm is thank you, right?
<reinhard> is it the right spelling?
<btami> right, but "köszönöm" :)
<reinhard> ah
<reinhard> however
<reinhard> hope derek or jcater see you
<btami> me too
<reinhard> good night
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<chillywilly> due this boot floppies kernel blows
<chillywilly> it doesn't have all the scsi modules to geta  burner working
<nickr> chillywilly: : uh, then install an image that doe-s
<chillywilly> I am, thank you very much
<chillywilly> doesn't mean I can't bitch and complain
<chillywilly> ;P
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<nickr> chillywilly: you should use the freakingf 2.4bf images
<nickr> install disks, arther
<chillywilly> I did
<chillywilly> Linux babers 2.4.17-bf2.4 #1 Sun Feb 3 19:56:58 CET 2002 i686 unknown
<chillywilly> so there :P
<nickr> so there
<chillywilly> but it does not contain thopse modules
<chillywilly> gonna roll my own
<nickr> heh.
<nickr> compiling kernels is annoying
<nickr> whats really annoying is that theres no kernel image with wavelan-ng in it
<chillywilly> I wlays roll my own though
<chillywilly> er always
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<dneighbo> sup donut dude
<jcater> nuttin much
<jcater> trying to figure out what
<jcater> 's for dinner
<jcater> any suggestions?
Action: jcater is leaning towards Chili's or some mexican place
<derek> deke should i still use lap top or not?
<jcater> is this Ms Neighbors?
<derek> yes laurie
<derek> how are you
<dneighbo> um sorry wasnt watching
<dneighbo> depends on what for
<jcater> I'm well
<dneighbo> if you want to get you email use the other computer
<dneighbo> if you want to surf use the laptop
<jcater> laurie: you must be one patient person
<jcater> :)
Action: jcater is away: dinner
<dneighbo> i didnt get galeon installed on the new computer before i left :(
<derek> sometimes
<derek> ok love you 
<dneighbo> love you too :)
<derek> deke don't forget to make copies for benie
<dneighbo> made copies already
<dneighbo> getting ready to hook up camera and download
Action: drochaid blinks
<drochaid> is this derek talking to derek?
<dneighbo> um somethign like that
Action: dneighbo wonders why drochaid thinks this is something new?
<drochaid> lol
<drochaid> I just checked in the chan .. looked weird ;)
<drochaid> mind you, I do sometimes fire up my own ircd to chat with myself :D
<dneighbo> wow awesome :)
<dneighbo> morpheus network got popped
<dneighbo>  so they switched to gnutella
<dneighbo> and are using a GPL client :)
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<nickr> argh
<nickr> galeon will NOT work
<nickr> fucking gconf
<nickr> nothing fixes it.
<dneighbo> gconf sucks 
<dneighbo> must leave bbs
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<nickr> argh!
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<nickr> gconf really does'nt like nfs mounted home directories
<nickr>                                  
Action: jcater is back (gone 01:40:10)
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Action: chillywilly sighs
<chillywilly> man I am so sick of the residetn MLUG BSD troll
<jcater> what's wrong?
<chillywilly> this guy on our lug list who just sists there an bitches about how GNU/Linux is so 'fragmented' and that it s 'open source' tools that are the asset and not some 'kernel'
<chillywilly> yet BSD has 3 different distros
<chillywilly> er, OSes I should say
<chillywilly> which didn't come about out of necessity but infighting ;)
<chillywilly> he just really needs to go find something better to do with his time
Action: chillywilly sets up a filter to send all messages form him to /dev/null ;)
<nickr> the tools are the asset
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<jcater_> damn you, roadrunner!
<jcater_> ok, it's time for me to change services
<chillywilly> heheh
<nickr> rr.net sucks.
<jcater_> I've had them for 3 years
<jcater_> I've had minor issues before
<jcater_> but now they are expiring my DHCP certificate every 12 or so hours
<jcater_> requirign a reboot
<jcater_> that or somehow my linux box is fscked up now 
Action: jcater_ thinks it's the former as the latter hasn't changed
<nickr> you shouldn't have to reboot, just get a new lease
<jcater_> how?
<jcater_> I try ifdown/ifup
<jcater_> and /etc/init.d/networking restart
<nickr> hrm
Action: jcater_ doesn't really use DHCP at work, so I'm clueless
<nickr> are you using pump?
<jcater_> um
<jcater_> I think so
Action: jcater_ uses debian woody, so whatever it uses for DHCP
<nickr> maybe you should try switching to dhcpd
<nickr> ea, it uses pump unfortunately
<chillywilly> nickr: define 'tools'
<nickr> which is dumb as a stone
<nickr> chillywilly: the userspace as linux distributions currently have
<chillywilly> the GNU tools ;)?
<nickr> chillywilly: debian hurd has shown that the kernel is mostly disposable
<jcater_> dhcpd?
<nickr> chillywilly: saying 'GNU tools' is not accurate
<jcater_> doesn't that serve out addresses?
<nickr> chillywilly: GNU tools are part of the userland, but not the whole thing
<jcater_> I use dhcpd at work to serve addresses out out clients
<nickr> jcater_: er, yea, theres something like dhcpc or something
<jcater_> ah
<jcater_> I have dhcp-client and udhcpc
<chillywilly> I agree there and also with that dude on that point, but it is pretty lame to be trying to talk crap about Linux on a LUG list and touting BSD kernel as th best thing ever
<jcater_> s/I/apt-get search has
<chillywilly> it's just sad
<chillywilly> someone should just gice him the boot
<chillywilly> ;)
<nickr> jcater_: huh. I'm not sure then.
<jcater_> hmmm
<chillywilly> he distracts too much from things
<jcater_> apt-get install dhcp-client did not remove pump
<jcater_> hmm
<nickr> chillywilly: well, debian-bsd may give a chantce to do testing in that area
<chillywilly> hopefully no one will honor his drivel with a response
<nickr> jcater_: they don't explicitly conflict because I think ifupdown uses pump anyway, but dhcpc is a separate mechanism
<nickr> dhcp-client
Action: chillywilly almost did, but then realized that's probably exactly what he wants, an argument
Action: jcater_ goes to google to research
<chillywilly> nickr: I think his mother may have not hugged him enough, he always seems to post with such venom ;)
<nickr> chillywilly: I don't abide 'such and such sucks' anymore
<chillywilly> nickr: did I say BSD sucks?
<jcater_> chillywilly: at times we could say the same about you :)
<nickr> chillywilly: Not at all, I'm just making a general statement
<chillywilly> jcater_: yea, just like your nice stfu repsonse ;)
<chillywilly> I think we all have our moments
<jcater_> stfu?
<chillywilly> don't make me grep logs now ;)
<jcater_> stfu? wassat?
Action: chillywilly has been told by jcater_ on more than one occasion to stfu
<nickr> isn't there a song called 'stfu?'
<nickr> its really stupid rap song
<jcater_> sigh
<chillywilly> shut the f*** up
<jcater_> ah
<jcater_> yeah
<jcater_> :)
<jcater_> argh!!!!
<jcater_> it seems a lot of ppl have problems w/pump
<chillywilly> anyway, placing blame is for children what I am meaning to say about this guy is that he needs to find some other group....seems like his sole purpose is to cause havoc on the LUG list ;)
<jcater_> but to use anything else, I can't rely on /etc/network/interface's dhcp syntax
jcater (jason@24.92.70.39) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<jcater_> yeah, there's a place and time for everything
<chillywilly> look at his sig
<chillywilly> :
<chillywilly> Linux is for people who hate Microsoft.
<chillywilly> FreeBSD is for people who love UNIX.
<chillywilly> Windows: "Where do want to go today?"
<chillywilly> Linux: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
<chillywilly> BSD: "Hey, are you guys coming or what?!?"
<jcater_> Honestly, I agreed with that Linux is for... BSD is for... 
<jcater_> up til a year ago
<jcater_> when I met up w/GNUe
<jcater_> as honestly, most of the Linux ppl I ran across
<jcater_> came from Winders backgrounds who just hated M$
<chillywilly> isn't BSD closer to old school UNIX?
<jcater_> most of the BSD ppl I ran across were old-skewl Unix/BSD ppl
<jcater_> so for me there was a clear distiction between the attitudes
<jcater_> and I agreed w/his statement 110%
<chillywilly> all of them?
<jcater_> Debian and GNUe has helped to change my attitude
<jcater_> all of them? what?
<chillywilly> I came to GNU/Linux through curiousity...in fact  I didn't know much of GNU until philosophy class ;)
<chillywilly> nevermind
<jcater_> I'm just speaking of my experience
Action: chillywilly is on crack
<jcater_> It seemed most of the linux ppl I came across were high-school hackers who were anti-MS
<jcater_> and most of the BSD ppl I came across just loved the Unix way of doing things
<jcater_> of course, I hang out in different circles now :)
<jcater_> btw, I'm still a huge BSD fan
<chillywilly> well you have a point there
<jcater_> BSD vs Linux isn't mutually exlusive
<chillywilly> yes, I know
<chillywilly> why does it have to be vs. anyway
<jcater_> I dunno
<chillywilly> I think the Hurd is demonstrating that kernels don't matter
<jcater_> that'll be the death of the free/oss movement
<jcater_> the constant infighting
<jcater_> btw, I meant "movements" before you flame me :)
Action: chillywilly didn't even catch it
<nickr> I find a lot of BSD people limit themselves and their way of thinking because they derive pride from being traditional.
Action: chillywilly is trying not to be such a flaming idiot
<jcater_> that's not necessarily a bad thing
<nickr> its not a bad thing to limit yourself and your way of thinking?
<chillywilly> Jesus wouldn't want me to flame people ;)
<jcater_> there's two ways of looking at that
<chillywilly> that probably sounds pretty dorky though
<jcater_> there's room (nay, a necessity) to have both innovators and to have "stabilizers" in this world
<chillywilly> oh well
Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater
<jcater> personally, I don't want an OS that is nothing but innovative
<jcater> I want some tradition I can count on
<jcater> of course, GNU/Linux is growing up
<jcater> hence is why all but one of my servers at work run GNU/Linux now
<jcater> one year ago, I only had one linux box and 3 or 4 commercial Unix boxes
<chillywilly> GNUe is helping GNU grow up ;)
<chillywilly> ooops
<chillywilly> did I say that out loud?
<jcater> lol
<nickr> I find the limitations of mind and mentality to be present in many gnu projects as well.
<nickr> certainly not in gnue though!
<chillywilly> heh
<nickr> I like Debian because it is so innovative and open
<chillywilly> btw, that post by the BSD guy was about this articl: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107-841870.html
<jcater> I like Debian because it is the best of both worlds
<chillywilly> I bet he went off because the guy quotes RMS ;)
<jcater> It leaves room for innovation
<jcater> but at the same time, goes thru a peer review process to maintain stability
<nickr> Yea, debian is a good fusion of innovators at one end and stablizers at the other
<chillywilly> debian rules ease of maintainence and configuration 
<nickr> in a good and cooperative tension
<chillywilly> it can be a pain to install though
<jcater> I just wish we had a nicer install program
<jcater> dude, once you get thru the install hurdles, 
<jcater> I can't imagine an easier system to maintain
<nickr> the install program is quite functional
<chillywilly> well there's supposed to be prodigy's nice graphical installer tingy
<jcater> I would've never made it thru my first two installs without jamest
<jcater> now I can do it blindfolded
<nickr> but the nexgen debinstall or PGI will be good
<nickr> jcater: I did my last install in Japanese ;)
<jcater> lol
<chillywilly> hehe
<nickr> it was so cool
<nickr> the bootfloppies are crusty, but the ones in woody are not bad
<chillywilly> you're definitely a unique character nickr
<chillywilly> ;)
<nickr> how many dists are there that have a japanese installer?
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> I dunno probably not too many
Action: chillywilly notices ont eh 2.4bf there was a langauge selection thingy
<chillywilly> I thought that was purty cool
<jcater> nickr: I wouldn't know as I can't read the japanese announcements :)
<chillywilly> you can install in a bunch of other languages too
<nickr> chillywilly: yea thats what I installed with
<chillywilly> nickr: aren't they taking the installer from prodegy?
Action: chillywilly can't spell that right :P
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> dudes, I watched Dune today on the scifi channel
<chillywilly> that movie still kicks arse
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I need some intellectual stimulation
<jcater> I've read slashdot dot.kde.org newsforge, wsj, smartmoney
<jcater> any other ideas?
<chillywilly> k5?
<nickr> chillywilly: it is available as a package
<chillywilly> ok
<nickr> chillywilly: I'm not sure it'll be used officially though
<nickr> jcater: linuxtoday freshmeat
<chillywilly> oh
<chillywilly> ah yea linuxtoday
<chillywilly> I read that often
<jcater> excellent suggestion :)
Action: jcater heads over to linuxtoday
<chillywilly> jcater: did you see the O(1) scheduler atch can now be used with the preemption patch?
<chillywilly> er, patch
<jcater> url?
Action: chillywilly has both now
<jcater> cool
<chillywilly> ummm
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I really think the preemptive patch improved the responsiveness of my home workstation
<jcater> but I swear my work workstation is worse now
<chillywilly> http://people.redhat.com/~mingo/O(1)-scheduler/
<chillywilly> /usr/src/lock-break-rml-2.4.18-1.patch
<nickr> not enough bleeding edge kernel things get into debian packages.
<chillywilly> /usr/src/preempt-kernel-rml-2.4.18-rc1-ingo-K3-1.patch
<chillywilly> /usr/src/preempt-stats-rml-2.4.18-1.patch
<chillywilly> /usr/src/sched-O1-2.4.18-pre8-K3.patch
<chillywilly> I applied those babies
<chillywilly> I've been using SGI's kernel in cvs for a while now
<chillywilly> jcater: doesn't netbank.com suck if you have to use the ATM a lot?
<chillywilly> I mean they all like to charge you some stinking fee
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> yeah, I suppose so
<jcater> they bought out CompuBank
<jcater> which was my favorite
<jcater> they had free wire transfers, free atms, etc
--- Mon Mar  4 2002